Why Does A Road Bike Cost As Much As A Motorbike?
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
- It seems like road bikes are getting more and more expensive, with a top of the range bike costing a whopping $15,000 or £15,000! For that, you could buy a motorbike, with an engine, lights, ABS, and... all that other stuff! So why are road bikes now the same cost as motorbikes? Alex and Manon take a look...
00:00 Intro
00:41 How do road bike and motorbike prices compare?
01:49 How quickly is bike tech changing?
03:15 How ready are road bikes to go racing?
05:00 Different options and specs to choose from
07:00 What are the profit margins on road bikes vs motorbikes?
09:17 Conclusions
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Do you think bikes are good value for money? 💸
So I’m guessing you decided to ignore the comments and fail to accept this video is full of misinformation? Love GCN but come on now, address the elephant in the room
Nooooóoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
@@chasemason5129I wonder if they made this comment now due to Cade Media's criticism
On dear! GCN - read the room ! Do you even read the comments?
A lot of credibility lost with this one
GCN, don't try to help the bike industry in "justifying" their high costs! Consumers are being ripped off and anyone with critical thinking skill can see this clearly!
They know where their bread is buttered. A basic useful bike can be had for much less money than what these folks talk about. In fact I would guess this basic useful bike will last longer than their Tour De France touted bikes and be easier to repair when it does break. Which bike would the bicycle industry prefer you purchase?
Been saying this for months. Whatever the industry does, GCN goes along with it.
Agree
GCN is part of the problem.
GCN being paid by bike companies to convince us that bikes areprices reasonably lmaoooo joke
The main reason for £15000 bikes is to make £5000 bikes look reasonable.
We have a winner, you just made a tiny mistake - it's to make 5 to 10k bikes (bikes which used to cost 2 to 5k a few years back) look reasonable.
Yeah it's called "price anchoring". It's a known feature of retail sales, like when restaurants have a $50 plate on the menu that few order, it makes the $30 plates look more reasonable by comparison.
Nailed it.
Amen!!
It's insane! This is the reason why bike shops are closing. A $15,000 bike for a cycling enthusiast is something to dream about, until you put into perspective. I have bought new cars for less than that. There are way more parts in a car, more engineering and everything else than what goes into a bicycle. Sorry, I will stay with the $1500.00 Price point for myself. I ride a lot. Over 6K Miles this year, same for the last few years - over 100 miles per-week every week in 2023. I get a lot of enjoyment out of my $1599.00 2018 BMC bike without DI2 and Disc Brakes. I bought it brand new, it's my super bike. C'mon, who are we kidding?
As both a cyclist and motorcyclist, this is so poorly researched and misinformed it borders on total nonsense. Virtually every statement on motorcycles is flat-out incorrect.
It is all about supply and demand. Superbike motor cycles are extremely hi-tech compared to the experimental technology that modern hi-end race bicycle are, as far as efficiency and longevity are concerned. Making the comparison is actually pointless as they are now totally different commodities. My point of view is that depending on the make and model of motor cycle they are definitely far better value for money. However I love the fact that my bicycle improves my health. My 1999 Hayabusa satisfies my need for speed ( best suited for drag racing). The saying different horses, for different courses comes to mind. As such it is actually a pointless discussion as we all know that a topend race bicycle is a status symbol that the majority cannot afford.
Guys with respect, stick to bicycles. Your knowledge about motor bikes is totally amateur
@@haksaw123but the ignorant people keep comparing a TDF bike to a common motorbike and use that as the bicycle manufacturers are ripping them off.
@@tomnewham1269did we not watch the same video? They just said MSRP is 40% above the shop’s cost.😂 You can get a brand new superbike for $18k. If you think more engineering goes into bicycles than motorcycles, you truly live on mars.
@haksaw123 keep in mind the enormous profit made by motorcycle manufacturers massively trumps the bicycle industry. They also use a lot of shared components while bikes have a different mildness and layup for every size, often with multiple layups offered in each size.
I liked GCN, now I've noticed they are talking what their sponsors want, from electronic groupsets being worth it, to trying and justify a bicycle costing the same as motorcycle. The engine alone is more complex than any "technology" in any road bike. Jesus F it is a bicycle, it has a few cogs and wheels. It is enjoyable sport, but it is total BS regarding cost.
Motorcycles don't have speed sniffer though.
GCN has been pushing their BS for years now….in all fairness, most of the CZcams cycling channels have.
They told us we were wrong about hookless rims too, until they changed the title to a more pragmatic one.
Most cost comes down to development costs. A $15,000 motorbike probably hasn’t had much development done to it over the last 15 years. A $15,000 bicycle are designed to win bicycle races so bicycle manufacturers are constantly making improvements to them even though most people cannot notice them.
I would think that sales volumes would be similar between a $15,000 motorbike and a $15,000 bicycle yet one has a 15 year production cycle while the other has a 2 year production cycle.
People keep comparing apples with oranges but a top end bicycle is equivalent to a Ferrari, not a Hyundai.
@@tomnewham1269regarding your last statement, yet the video insists on making comparisons to mid tier motorcycles... in a number of instances not the Ferrari/ porches you mention...
Would enough dislikes to the video help in encouraging GCN to actually put some thought and research in on the content they are creating?
One can hope
Well if you don’t like their videos don’t watch. Watching and commenting on their videos just gives them more revenue from the advertisements.
I ride both motorcycles and bicycles, and I can honestly say Trevor has no idea what he's talking about when it comes to motorcycles. New electronic tech that is trickling down from racing to road has completely changed the industry. 6 axis IMUs have opened the way for electronic rider aides that were unimaginable 10 years ago. To say motorcycles haven't evolved is ignorant.
Also, comparing Motogp bikes to UCI trade team race bikes in cost and availability is not explanatory. Apples and oranges no less. It's a ridiculous framing to obfuscate the bicycle industry's price "problem". I can easily justify a $15k motorcycle purchase, but I can not say the same about a $15k bicycle.
Edit:
In short, $15k bicycles are ridiculous, like tubeless tyres
i agree with everything, but tubeless tires are great, leave them alone xD And you have them on motorbikes too :)
You're absolutely right my motorcycle is dripping in brembo, ohlins and various tech and the bicycle industry has the gall to think their prices are justified it's absolutely ridiculous and people are stupid for letting them charge the outrageous sums of money they ask.
Not to mention there is as wide veriety of types of motorbikes as pushbikes, even discarding scooters
Bingo. Plus using the reference of motogp vs UCI world tour is off. A better comparison would be Showroom Stock. Also important to remember that in most cases bicycle manufacturers are only actually producing frames and then adding parts from Shimano, Campy or SRAM plus others to build complete bikes.
Spot on! The best comment so far. 👍🏻👍🏻
This trend of justifying the extreme pricing is such a nonsense
It doesn’t make sense how a Ferrari costs so much but you don’t here people whinging about that.
It is the same with top end bicycles but for some reason people feel they are being ripped off because they cannot afford one.
@@tomnewham1269I could go into detail on why you’re wrong but you wouldn’t understand it. So I’m gonna stick to something you should understand. Let’s say someone buys a $15k bike and wants to sell it 6 months later. They’re gonna take a loss. No way around it. What happens if you bought a Ferrari J50 for $2.3mil new and want to sell it? Well first of all you’ll be sued by Ferrari if you sell it within the first year, because you signed a contract they drew up to prevent profiteering, but luckily it’s 2024 now and you can sell the car for an easy $4mil. Comparing market value kinda blows that argument out of the water. The only part you were right about is I can’t afford a Ferrari.😂
A few points on your thoughts:
1. Motorcycle tech is evolving as quickly as bicycle tech. The argument about 50-year old technology in motorcycles is analogous for bicycles as well - they still comprise of a frame, pedals, drivetrain and wheels, like they were 100 years ago, don't they? The devil is in what *type* of components are used, and motorcycle parts are also much more advanced than what they were 50 years ago.
2. Bicycles ready to go racing is actually the strongest point in why bicycles should not be of comparable price to motorcycles. The price in millions for a GP motorcycle just shows you how much more complex motorcycles are than bicycles, and the diminishing returns where average speeds are in the hundreds of km/h. The bill of materials / parts / supply chain for an MC are vastly larger than that of a bicycle. Moreover...remind me - how much does a top-end track bicycle cost nowadays? Like...£60 000-100 000?
3. A motorcycle has more options to customize than a bicycle, hands down. There are also different sizes for MCs and motorcycle fit is a thing.
4. And finally - profit margins. Anyone who doesn't count in the direct and indirect warehouse/delivery/maintenance/staff costs in the final price of their products simply doesn't know how to run a business. And yet 40% is a margin often seen for high-end to luxury items in other industries, or monopolies.
Scientific and medical devices have prices that are x5 or x10, thus 80-90%. That is the biggest ripoff ever
Also just pointing out. 100.000€ is also the price for a Ducati Superleggera, which is right now the closest a "normy" can get to MotoGP bikes.
(Ducati did track tests and a professional driver loses around 1second, compared to a MotoGP Bike, which is damn close considering the "average" supersport loses like 4-8 seconds)
Hey guys, as someone who has a specialist motorbike, has completed advanced rider training with the Police and is married to a motorcycle mechanic, I would say that you that you missed the mark with this one.
Trust GCN to side with the industry and not the consumers.🤬
"The rate of pregression is far greater for a road bike than a motorbike"... absolute rubbish. Motorbikes these days are highly complex machines, not only the engines but they now include abs, traction control, emissions control etc etc. Apart from the frame, road bike are just an assembly of off the shelf parts available across all manufacturers.
Reality speaking you are hyping up motorbikes while they also using of the shelf components with less expensive materials for the build than the super bike 😅
Heck I even have dual sport now with ABS.
Those ABS and traction control systems is probably supplied by Bosch which supplies not only to all the motorbike manufacturers but to the car manufacturers as well.
Nice try on that one 😂
I ride both motorbikes and road bikes. The fact that a pushbike costs the same as a brand new motorbike is ridiculous, motorbikes are developing at a pretty quick rate like other people stated electronics, components etc. The thing with motorbikes is they also have to develop an engine to comply with emotions euro 6 etc so motorbikes now, have an app on your phone that you can change suspension settings or even suspension that adjusts automatically to weight, speed, terrain the riders hight when coming to a stop etc. The list goes I don’t think 50 years ago motorbikes had apple play or anywhere near the performance/comfort. You can’t justify a bike with peddles costing MORE than a brand new developed motorbike. The only real reason they cost so much is people are paying the prices and sales arnt slowing down. I’m sure if sale prices dropped dramatically they’d soon out the bike on “sale” and still be making a hefty profit
They know the investment in that tech will pay off for much longer than with bicycles
Part of the reason is that thses are top level bikes, and not much are sold. There are also very many skus of them. 3 paint jobs 2 groupset and 8 sizes will give you 48 different bikes
@JZTechEngineering not complaining about prices but those high end bikes generally share molds(model and size specific) with much cheaper bikes. The diminishing returns are sizeable and people should be happy they can get nearly the same bike as the top end for a lot less money.
*I'd much rather have the low end Specialized SL8 frameset than the S-Works SL7... even if I got to pick one for free, even though the SL8 frameset is selling for roughly what a used S-Works SL7 frameset is selling for😅
@@JZTechEngineering
That's plain silly.
Do you imagine for a moment that manufacturers build up stock in 48 configurations, and that's why they need to charge 15k? 😂😂
Having a foot in both camps (used to be sales manager for a motorbike dealership) I think this is complete balderdash!!!! Compare the number of components in a motorbike with the number in a bicycle. The R&D involved in producing a motorbike is huge and many models are updated every 2 years, plus there is trickle down tech from race bikes that gets incorporated into the bikes you can buy from the showroom. To get a motorbike to production there are all sorts of vehicle safety tests and regulations that have to be adhered to. Motorbike variants have to be produced according to the country of sale and by the time you take into account the different models of scooters, commuter bikes, sports bikes, touring bikes, off-road bikes and loads of different engine sizes the number of different models in a motorbike showroom easily exceeds the number of bicycle variants. The value of stock in a motorbike dealership far outweighs what you'd find in a bicycle shop so dealers have to invest far more. Profit margins on motorbikes can be, as you say, around 10% but often the margin can be as low as £500.
So take another look at this one GCN and convince me of the reasons why bicycles are the price they are. Oh and by the way, Yamaha now have a range of e-bicycles.
@bikebrain, Agreed it is almost like comparing apples with oranges..... The only real similarity is that they both have 2 wheels, I think GCN are well out of their depth on this one😂
100% on the SAFETY considerations. There are regulations on seat heights. How far apart the turn signals must be. How high the headlight has to be, etc... PLUS, crash testing. I grew up in WI. I love Trek, and own five of their bikes. But I don't think Trek is doing 75 mph head and side crash tests anywhere near what Honda has to do on every single model. And then there's the liability concerns motorcycle companies face that Trek just... doesn't.
Something else for folks to consider (as mentioned by @bikebrain : check out the "stealership" video from FortNine to explain how Motorcycle dealerships work, at least in North America. Very different business model.
"The money that is plowed into road R&D is huge, and is quite possibly the largest factor contributing to sale prices..."
Pretty sure it's mostly corporate greed. I love cycling but we've reached a point where a set of wheels costs $1,000 and they aren't even the good ones... This is out of control. The industry needs a hard reset.
Any 1k wheel set is more than good enough for you and 99.9% of viewers. Have a day off
The prices of road bikes are ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS! 💯💯💯💯💯
GCN should really have a disclaimer here that they are sponsored by many of the brands selling top end gear. Of course they are going to try and justify the prices.
There is nothing you can say to convince me to buy a 15,000 bicycle when you can buy a Ducati which is made in Italy, not Taiwan or China with fundamentally more engineering and workmanship is ludicrous that this has happened.
What about a MOTO GP level Ducati? If you're only talking brand, you can still buy a "Trek" hybrid for $500
@@veganpotterthevegan their argument is we had to lay the carbon fiber in such a way. It doesn't fly with most people. And that engineering is more advanced than ABS brakes, direct injection. All the engineering for a motorcycle. Are you kidding me?
And they would say oh the materials used on an advanced road bike bull 💩. The ABS connections required gold. Do you see gold in your road bike? There's aluminum. There's carbon fiber on Ducatis. There's titanium high strength steel and alloys that I can't pronounce. What do you get honey on a road bike? Probably the same amount of carbon fiber that comes on Ducati
And all of that is made in Italy, not Taiwan or China
@justinhamill1931 that's a fair argument when you consider that bare hands barely do anything in the manufacturing of a motorcycle these days. *ABS brakes aren't new and they're largely all shared components. Also, weight isn't a concern for mass market motorbike parts but it is for even average priced bicycles.
Lots of people don't understand that things don't sell for what they cost to make. Things sell for what people are prepared to pay for them.
That rule only apply to luxury brands. Do you consider owning a roadbike a social status symbol? Personally, no.
then I will become the ruler of the world and make that a loaf of bread/food or what not will cost a certain % of what people are worth... best solution, as it will not outprice people from quality stuff.
@@Pillokuntranslate that into english and I'll attempt to answer.
@@jjouhit doesnt matter what you think. You are not the target customer.
100% agreed. Bike manufacturers would be foolish NOT to charge $15k for a bicycle when they have customers lined-up to pay that much.
The engineering excellence, R&D, ,materials etc that goes into a motorbike is 100x that of a bicycle. The prices of bikes are ridiculous. Marketing bullshit has done a brilliant job on gullible cyclists.
Clearly you have no idea what goes on to design, engineer and manufacturer a high end bicycle.
@@tomnewham1269Clearly not enough. Just the tolerances in engine and transmission design are rocket science compared to bicycles. The bicycle industry can't produce 2 round holes.
@@tomnewham1269 Actually I’d say I know a lot more than you do. Fore away with any questions you have.
@@iddra1868exactly😂 motorcyles are so wildly complicated with ABS, traction control, wheelie control. A 15k motorcycle is like top of the line litre class bikes used in WSBK. It's so stupid to compare bikes to motorcyles and even crazier to price them similarly.
@@theunknown21329 I've restored almost 100 year old motorcycles and even they're more complicated.
I’ve got an Aprilia superbike and quite honestly the fact that it was a similar price to a top of the like bicycle is insane… first of all a motorbike has hundreds of parts each requiring lengthy design and development, state of the art electronics and F1 grade materials… whereas a bicycle has a handful of specialised components and a bunch of shimano/sram trinkets
Suzuki AEM Carbon Fiber Hayabusa - $200,000,
Ducati Testa Stretta NCR Macchia Nera - $225,000.
Dodge Tomahawk V10 Superbike - $550,000.
Ecosse Spirit Titanium bike - $3.6m.
Comparing lower-end superbikes with top-end pro-racing bicycles is comparing apples to oranges.
the parts of a mass produced 15k motorbike don't require that much "lengthy design" as you may think. A lot are of the shelf standard-parts common for decades. You may argue, that also on road-bikes a lot of the parts are sourced from Shimano/Sram/Campa ... but these parts are still in active development - esp. on the high-end, what we are talking about here.
E.g. such a simple thing as the chain for the drivetrain - I bet there is much more RnD needed for the bicycle chain, which needs not only to run over the cogwheels, but also shift up- and down. The chain of the motorcycle runs in a straight line and mainly has to be beefy.
@@heatherbellbikes there’s a huge difference between a 200k race bike and a 15k motorbike. What’s the huge difference between a 6k dollar road bike and a 15k road bike? Carbon layup? Give me a break. Why does a carbon fiber with 105 components even cost 6k to begin with? People are dumb enough and are willing to pay it.
@@goodoleme747 The difference between a 15k and 200k motorbike is 13 times the cost so there should be a massive difference. The difference between a 6k and 15k road bike is just over double the price so the gains are going to be more marginal. To keep it like for like, I’d ask what the difference is between a 100k v 200k motorbike. If people want to buy what the pros ride because it’s much more affordable then that’s their choice. No one is holding a gun to their heads. The fact that they can afford what pros ride is great news. Can many bikers say the same about a 200k motorbike? I doubt it.
I hate to say this: I'm very disappointed in Manon. She's in the motor sport world (sure, cars... but still). She has to know from being around people who will cross from world to the other that there is no such thing as "a motorcycle." You have sport, sport racing, track, cruiser, touring, sport touring, dirt, motocross, adv, street, scooter, maxi-scooter, etc... And then you look at something like the Suzi GSX series that has ten or twelve models with different sized engines. The Honda CB/CBR that has ten or so models with different engines and standing heights. And dirt bikes... anything from a 49cc for kids to a 450 or higher for pro racers in the same model line. So, to say there isn't as many choices is just not true. Sorry folks. You did not do your research on this one.
Totally agree with you
+1
Ya, and they also do have different sizes too. This video sounded way too sponsored.
Road bikes aren’t just a little too expensive, they’re about 3X too expensive. Coupled with the fact the tech peaked about 10 years ago and the bike industry is now forcing us to buy stuff that isn’t as good as it used to be just so they can try to justify the cost. Disk brakes, tubeless tires, hookless rims, electric shifting.. derailleur pulleys that save 2 watts. Come on really?!
Agreed 100%
The industry is not forcing you to buy all that gear. There are still cheap bikes out there for you to buy that doesn’t have all that stuff on them.
@@tomnewham1269 they pretty much are tho… brand new carbon bikes with rim brakes are gone…even new bikes with mechanical groupsets are going by the wayside. For the price of a low end 105 electronic groupset, you could have a much lighter mechanical dura ace groupset. Last I checked, trek was selling their ALR emonda for 2500….thats aluminum. So yes, if you want a brand new entry level race bike, you’re going to be paying much higher prices than before.
I have 3 bicycles that cost over 10k and 3 motorcycles that cost around 15k each. There is absolutely no comparison in value between the two. Bicycles are a total rip off. Do you have any idea how much cost is involved with the mountain of legal requirements that need to be met by motorcycle manufacturers. Also I loved how you were trying to explain the economy of scale and how it doesn’t somehow apply to bicycles. Then your motogp comparison was absolutely bizarre it just made no sense.
75k in bikes sure you do, you probably rent a 1 bedroom flat
Clearly gcn has been payed off to spout this propaganda
People are definetly being ripped off. But as long as people are willing to pay premium prices for heavy bikes the market will be there.
one person in these comments shows this , THREE over 10k bikes :)
Because the GCN sponsors say it's so
GCN are not championing cycling, they are paid to champion product and protect margins.
I only watch for the challenges and classic rides.
It’s the rate the prices are increasing that seems to be out of control. In 2016 I bought a Giant TCR with Ultegra brand new from a dealer for £2600. The equivalent bike now has disc brakes and di2 but now costs 5700. It’s not sustainable, the 2016 bike is still more than good enough for any normal club rider.
Bicycles should not cost as much as motorcycles, in fact many high end/expensive bicycles are made and sold in higher volume than the motorcycles as well. There is just not as much r&d and manufacturing to actually be able to be thinking that u as a bicycle company/brand should be able to get as much as for a motorcycle. The margin is insane, ie the greed! I as a former mechanical engineer/product developer am dumbfounded how such behaviour towards ones customers is allowed. Shameful and it is why the industry is facing a crisis...
Reading the comments is like restoring humanity on earth. Thank you, commentators.
After going through the comments, it seems like many bike makers might be using fake accounts to explain away the high prices of their bikes.
This video made me want to buy a motorbike
Because people with too much money on their hands are idiots. The bike industry is an absolute pisstake. Can't even believe people are defending it! 😅
I’d love to see Yamaha make better bicycle than Trek for half the price. I genuinely believe they can do it.
Canyon is already making bikes for half the price than trek. I would expect more from Yamaha than half the price of Trek…
The bike industry is worse than the car industry. There are so many gimmicks and fads. GCN it sounds like you are trying to justify ripping people off in a sport that is ego driven with plenty of fools willing to waste their dollars.
Prices of roadbikes are not justified. After covid the prices are gone up too much.
This channel caters to people having costly bikes rather than to people using cheap bikes
It is because people are, and sorry for stating the obvious, complete idiots paying that much for a bicycle.
Anyone with any common sense can understand why a bike should cost less than a motorbike.
In Brazil, it’s costs more than an entry level brand new car.
Around 110,000 BRL for the Trek Madone SLR 9.
There are several different models of cars with MRSP listed below 100,000 BRL (Brazilian Real).
Don't worry, Trek makes entry level hybrids that are more comparable to that entry level car. No need to comparable apples to face towels
My fellow Brazilian countryman, prices over here are the most insane in the world. 35k BRL for an entry-intermediate bike is ABSURD. The used ones are quite overpriced as well, but only when it comes to selling... nobody wants a fair price when it comes to buying. 🤷🏾♂️
Estão todos malucos com esses preços, mas oq mais tem na terra tupiniquim é gente querendo pagar caro só pra se exibir, enfim é o brazilzilzil que já conhecemos.
8:29 unless totally closing down, a business will never be in it to lose money. When a $10,000 Addict RC Pro can be on sale now at my LBS for $6,999 knowing they will at the very least break even at an even lower price than that, speaks to the profit margin.
I don't know much about motorcycles but I do know their tech has changed just as fast as bicycles. GCN really needed to talk to someone on the motorcycle side before making this video. Bicycle prices are inflated for little reason.
What the hell are these folks smoking??? R & D? For a couple of triangles held together by a couple of wheels?? AND saying that there's no / little R & D in motorbikes??? WTF?? Just a daft example, but full blown on-board computers are now almost standard on motorbikes whilst we're still faffing with Garmins and marvelling at how good they are! Going racing? Are you REALLY going to compare a Moto GP motorbike with a bicycle?? Also are you aware that almost equally capable Superbike class motorbikes are quite a bit less costly?? Specs?? Have you ever been to a BMW motorbike dealership??? Honestly this has got to be the worst researched piece of GCN video ever it's quite laughable really..... Let's just admit that bikes are sold at these figures ONLY because some people are ready to pay for them - end of. And in turn, it's killing the whole sport as youngsters are getting out priced all the time. Rant over......
Prices are high because certain people are idiots / snobs and are willing to pay any amount to show off.
If this really were the case then there would be a few hundred companies popping up to sell 1K bikes with drua-ace. It's not happening though is it?
@@kidShibuyathere are lots of cheapish high quality bikes.
@@kidShibuyaWhat's the correlation? The reason why said people want to show off is because they spend 15k on their bikes, not because its fitted with dura ace. Heck i bet they don't even know what duraace is
Motorcycles haven’t developed in 50 years. That’s a sweeping statement 🙄
The electronic packages on modern motorcycles are worth more than a pedal bike alone !
Yes, I LOL'd at that.
Especially the R&D costs for the electronics on modern motorcycles
welcome to the lack of comprehension club. What they said was very clear but you still don't seem to get it.
yea that was crazy. compare the generations of honda gold wings. There are so many progressions in changes. Hell alot motorcycles have clutchless shifting, the fuel systems have changed so much over generations.
Yeah, a completely incorrect statement. A motorbike from today is utterly different than one from 1973. Plenty more changes than there's been to bikes in that time.
your comment about road bikes seeing greater tech development is really cringeworthy.
all the materials science developments made in frame design, wheels, metallurgy, carbon fibre, tyres etc all show improvements lock-step between both industries. Motorbikes even benefit from some further innovation like carbon-ceramic brakes. Fly-by-wire controls (similar to Di2 etc) have been standard on bikes for years. That motorbikes have also seen incredible innovation in their engines, gearboxes, electronics such as traction control and ABS, even electronically controlled damping for suspension systems, fuel injection and dynamic fuelling, it all seems to have been ignored completely. No mention of how older bikes used to have carburetors, drum brakes, mechanical cables and similar steel tubing to the road bike you pointed out.
You just plucked a vague misunderstood opinion out of thin air on this one and didn't really think about it before committing it to a video, and it shows.
thumbs down on this one.
Road motorbikes can be raced, the Superstock classes (1000cc and 600cc) are feeder classes to the British Superbike Championship and used to be feeder classes in the Superbike World Championship as well. These bikes are very close in spec to out the crate, there's a few safety mods but very little can be done to them in terms of tuning.
Ducati used to sell a road legal version of their MotoGP bike, the Desmosedici RR. It was around £40k new in 2007-8 when it was being sold.
I don't think GCN know half of us ride motorcycle's.
I raced with stock super sport 600s. The cost even today about the same as the bicycle example in the vid.
It seems that manufacturers are working to drive prices higher all the time to maximize profits for themselves. Otherwise, they would agree on standards for many more parts instead of making every little thing proprietary so that the owner is sort of trapped into always needing to buy e.g. a proprietary seatpost etc. I've heard mechanics complain that this is out of control.
Claiming that motorcycles haven't changed in decades just because they look alike is bollocks. This is a far fetched opinion from someone who probably does not know much about motorcycles. If we were to follow this logic, we could also claim that bicycles haven't changed really since the invention of peugeot's safety bike. And I don't buy this argument that bicycles have developed rapidly, or at least more rapidly than motorcycles, because the frame materials went from steel to carbon. Carbon bikes have been around for over 40 years (assos) it's just that they became prevelant in the last 10-15 years.
And yes, pricing a bicycle the same as a motorcycle is an outright rip off. No r&d and manufacturing costs can justify it. It's the consumer who justifies it by willing to pay this much..
GCN needed a presenter/researcher who knows bicycle AND motorcycles to properly discuss this subject.
I am generally a fan of GCN, but this was rediculous. Why is GCN trying to justify the price of road bikes, as their prices are not helping expand the sport which I would have thought would be an objective of GCN as it would expand their marketplace. I must say I am very disappointed with the nonsense that was presented.
There is one big reason for the prices on bikes have exploded the last years, and thats the pandemic and greed. Because of a huge demand for especially group sets in these years, the prices sky rocketed and customers just accepted the new reality. When the dust have settled after the pandemic, the bike industry experienced what kind of money you could rob people of and just never lowered their prices all though the prices of producing groupsets have to gone down. I bought a new Cannondale CAAD12 with ultegra groupset for 1000$ in 2019, now you have to put out third times that amount. No way production costs alone can justify a 300% increase, road bike is getting way too elitist imo.
Every couple of years I click onto GCN to see if they are still pedalling BS. Yep, still going. See you in a few years.
Should have brought in a motojournalist for the counter-point.
Even if you compare old school vs new school cycles, the gain is not that big. Example, this year I rode both my 1980 Carlton Clubman with mudguards / lights / pump etc and my Carbon TT bike with deep rim wheels etc in the Georgetown league TTs in Glasgow. The 43yo steel Carlton with mudguards was about 1 minute slower with the same rider...
Unfortunately, GCN is part of the problem.
I understand it, hyping everything and anything the bike industry asks for is great for the advertising-based business, but not good for consumers. Every year we hear the same stuff - more aero, faster, fewer watts, etc. Then since Obera launched the new bikes the lightweight bike has suddenly become fashionable again.
Most frames come out from the 5-6 factories in the Far East, where the design advancement is restricted by UCI rules anyway. So what are we actually paying for? The brand's marketing budget. (Same for luxury "watches", golf clubs etc)
Don't get me wrong, I love some of the contents and I will miss GCN+ dearly. But it is getting to a point where I would actively follow people like TraceVelo instead, where they talk about more relatable products.
This should be a 2min video. Why do bikes cost this much? Two words: inflation & greed.
GCN, come on!!! You know the bicycle industry is ripping us off at a phenomenal rate. I’ll only buy online, I have all the tools and lubricants to service my own Tri, Road, and MTB. Online stores are “heavily” discounted, they are more reflective of the real price with a 10% mark up.
The reality is that people are being ripped off. You should have just looked at the frames and asked why a V4RS or a look blade rs frame costs 5400€. Id love a V4RS but I rather lose the gut and save the cash, a cheaper way to a lighter machine
I love the GCN folks and I love riding my bike - but the price of push bikes is nonsense!
So you think a Giant Contend for $1,500 Australian is ridiculous?
@@tomnewham1269 well no, but the price for mid-tier and upper-tier is largely off the hook.
Lol, this material is ridiculous. Motorbikes have to handle higher speeds, have complicated suspensions, engines, electronics, even a set of tires is more expensive. and more high tech The fact that a push bike can cost 10k-25k is just crazy and its all a scam. No technology there that would justify those prices, its just bs for hipsters with money.
Not to mention motorcycle manufacturers have way better build standards bicycle makers can't even get a BB hole straight and the right shape.
I am a hipster with money and owner of a blingbling Bianchi bike and i fully agree to you.
xD At least youre self aware and know when youre getting robbed! @@johnerdam961
Alford and Manon kind of countered their own point with the $2,000,000 MotoGP bike. These bikes "cost" this much precisely because you can't buy them. The 2023 Kawasaki H2R is the fastest production motorcycle on the market... it will do 249mph and costs just $57,500.
Hayabusas were never ridiculously expensive either. You saw them everywhere.
You can go to any motorcycle dealer and buy a bike with electronic suspension.
Harley sells multiple bikes with automatic ride height adjustment.
15k bicycles are really just terrible value. They are a blatant rip off.
Just 57k. My house literally cost 60k and people spend it for a motorcycle. Yet bicycle prices are ridiculous huh?
@@yukiko_5051 did you buy your house in 1955?
@@Omar411269 Nope, 2010
You can make 15'000 videos with 15'000 arguments on this subject. Bicycles are way way way overpriced..... Totally unjustified.....
@rchub4934: I totally agree.
I ride a hybrid, i also own a Honda C90. Both are not expensive (although the Honda C90 is considered a classic these days and the price is going up)
I almost forgot my point them, but anyhoot i dont think i have spent more than £3000 in total for both
EDIT: I think it is also ironic you mention online only bike manufacturers being a downfall of LBS whilst being a sponsor of Canyon....
I totally agree. Canyon has helped cause the downfall of LBS. All bike manufacturers want to be Canyon now. Bike manufacturers want all the margins now -- just like Canyon gets. It isn't really greed. It is more competition. Canyon is indeed the start of this. Just remember, the few opinions that GCN does give -- always has a reason behind it. Canyon is one of their sponsors.
C90 is awesome!
Have you seen the step through crew on youtube?
@@adambrickley1119 I’ll check it out. ‘C90 adventures’ is also worthy of a view or two.
Most new bikes are priced like they're made of gold and hand-forged by old Japanese masters. Yet despite the crackhead prices, people still buy these $5,000 bikes like 50-something year old Lance Armstrong couldn't drop easily them on a tuned up $200 vintage steel road bike off Craigslist like nothing.
I often compare the price of a car tyre to a bike tyre. The car tyre has a lot more material, lasts longer and yet is a fundamentally a comparable price. Let's face it, we really do get taken advantage of by the bike industry. When you think of the technology, complexity of moving parts, & cost of production of a motorbike, there should be no way a road bike should cost the same as the motor bike . The trouble is that people have been willing to pay these prices so it has become the acceptable norm.
The whole point of small changes in bicycle tech is mostly planned obsolescence. I’ve grown up racing both motorcycles and bicycles and worked as a cycle mechanic for 25 years and the new developments are not necessary for the general public. Mostly they are there to sell the same thing to the same people year in year out (you used the example of phones, which is the same). Not only this but with everything all internal now we all know what a fricken pain servicing is.
Also how many carbon frames are made in Asia/China/, just as motorcycles are now which is why brands like KTM and Yamaha/Honda/Kawasaki keep their prices low by using the cheap labour in India, China and Thailand. A motorcycle will always have more technology built into it, and no I don’t buy this rubbish about the incredible R&D costs of producing a carbon road bike, check out the R&D and race team costs of any Moto team, I think you’ll find it’s way more. Probably one of the greatest reason that the prices are so high is they know that people will pay it, and why - EGO.
So after all of that, it comes down to the motorcycle dealership makes £1500, as where the bike shop is making £6000 per sale
I don't know why I am so incredibly disappointed in the bike industry and this video. People buy bikes that they can afford, of course. I bought an S-Works frame 10 years ago and built it with the components I wanted. It didn't cost anything like the price of motorcycle. I haven't bothered upgrading since, too expensive for a similar product. Too many showing off with the latest tech that if anyone was actually honest you do not need. I overheard someone saying they cant believe how they managed to ride a bike with external cables recently....as I overtook them and their £12,000 Trek whilst riding a steel single speed! Last time I visited a bike shop there were no £1000 bikes, not even close. I am not even going to start on the comments about motorcycles in this video. Obviously not heard of Superbikes... Road cars are not F1. Motorcycles are not Moto GP and bikes don't have to be Tour de France, unless the bike industry doesn't want to crash. The bubble will burst.
I sold +$12-15k bikes 15yrs ago. An SRM was $5k, a narrow set of Lightweights was $10k. You get a lot more for your money now, with great trickledown
Manon: “Road bikes at the top end price point, are getting a little out of hand. “
Alex: “It’s absolutely crazy!”
DAMN RIGHT!! 😎💯💯💯
Road bikes at any level are out of hand.
Only 20 seconds in, but have always wondered about this, does seem bonkers. I guess the price is determined by what people are willing to pay and with people clearly willing to pay a lot, manufacturers are bound to exploit this.
VEBLEN GOODS... you nailed it exactly and this term has been around for a long time that describes what your instinctive response was.
Good attempt, but meh in results. A top of the line road bicycle, available for the average consumer to buy, should not cost as much as a brand new motorcycle. If you can buy a 1000cc sportbike or sport touring motorcycle with modern electronics for similar prices as these top end bicycles, there is something wrong. As an example, Suzuki’s highest spec’d sport touring with a liquid-cooled 1000cc engine , electronic rider aids, panniers, TFT dash, etc, is just over $14k. The highest spec’d Trek Madone is almost $13k. Yamaha’s top spec’d 1000cc naked sportbike is $17.2k. For $13k, that bicycle needs to help me go faster than a 125cc motorcycle-then I would consider it almost reasonable. Also, R&D for bicycles is no where near that of modern sportbikes.
The process of making CF-bicycles has underwent a steep learning curve since the first carbon bikes 25 years ago or so. So it is more or less an industrial process of mass (or at least serial) production which very often is outsourced to OEMs in cheap labor countries. Furthermore do they use standard components for shifting and drivetrain that are made in the millions every year. Same for tires, tubes, rims, saddles, handlebars....
Yes, sometimes motorcycles do not change very much from year to year, except for the colors. And this is also true for bicycles. But other than that motorcycles have to follow strict legal rules for safety features, or the amount of CO² or other dirt they can produce. That requires frequent adjustment of systems, soft- and hardware. The product is much more complex than any bicycle I can think of.
I understand that everybody wants their cut of the cake and probably the three manufactureres of the groupsets have had an edge over the framebuilders, esp. after introduction of electronic shifting (which led to a big surge in prices). And I get it, the big brands want their fair share and thus they rise prices of the frames as well. Which results in insane price tags. For me the current price levels are indigestable, therefore I stick with my 2012 carbon bike (which btw. has identical measurements of geometry and weight as my dream bike) and take my craving for a new top-of-the line bike as what it is: an utter illusion.
So glad to see people calling out GCN's bullshit on this 😂😂😂
There os absolutely 0 defense for pedal bikes to be as expensive as motorcycles. Our bullshit economics allow for it
I have a feeling that GCN, will eventually take this video down.
Carbon wheels (rims) for motorcycle are stronger and heavier (more materials) but still cost less than some bicycle carbon wheels
“You can complete the Tour De France on a bike that costs just £6k!”. Wow. Amazing.
When you read a claim such as "4% FASTER THAN LAST YEAR'S MODEL" about performance from a manufacturer on their website or in some advertisement, look for the asterisk "*", and then scroll down to the asterisk at the bottom to read what it says. It is going to say something like this...
"With a 8kph head wind from 17 degrees on the non-drive side when the temperature is 42F, humidity is 83%, you are in the Northern Hemisphere and riding on a Wednesday in months ending in 'Ber' and there is a waning 3/4 moon."
Guys (and gals), unless the bike you have is actually broken, and was bought within the last 5-10 years, there are virtually no gains to be had in speed or efficiency by spending gobs of money on a showroom bike. Hit the gym, maybe take EPO or call up Lance's doctor so you can work on the engine instead of trying to buy speed. The UCI has already stifled innovation and if you absolutely HAVE to pay for speed instead of making the engine stronger, buy a recumbent or a velomobile if you want to go faster.
My bike is a 2010. That makes it 13 years old. I am a pretty decent cyclist, and in no way am I held back by my bike. Its light and fast and aero and I spent too much on it....but I'm still riding. Thats all that matters at the end of the day. (Oh and the gym this year really made a difference! Thats a good call)
"rate of progression on bike exceeds that of motorcycles!"....err I think not!
There is no justification for the price of a bike when compared to that of a motorcycle!
I have worked in the cycle industry for over three decades and I hope that the automotive industry is considerably better in terms of regulation and professionalism. For example, I do not know of any country where a pedal cycle has to pass an objective test before you can ride it on the public road, though there may be some. Margins may be tighter in the automotive industry but I do not think bike companies are ripping customers off, the markets are just very different. There are quite a few bike companies, the market is competitive and no one is being forced to buy expensive bikes. A few decades ago cycling was referred to as the new golf, which might be a better comparison. When you buy a luxury leisure item you are paying for a different set of things. When we buy this kind of stuff, spending a lot is part of the appeal for some of us. For example, carbon rims with rim brakes are, arguably, not fit-for-purpose. However, there was no regulation to stop bike companies selling them and the market wanted them, despite marginal gains and clear down sides: they were an expensive thing that people wanted partly because they were expensive. Expensive pedal cycles should be compared with other extravagant things we don't really need and actually want to spend more on than is sensible.
On top of all this a bicycle is mechanically simplistic. A motorcycle has complex engineering with super accurate tolerances which are essential to function normally and safely.
The Cycling industry as a hold has clearly taken advantage of their position to price their products by using classic marketing 101 methods
Their internal costs to produce, engineer , market their products are only a small fraction of what they actually price them down the distribution chain and ultimately to the end user
So..a typical High End frameset produced by a major brand like " S" , " T " , " P " and " C" in China ETC maybe costs around $200.00 - 300.00.
By the time it has passed thru the multiple channels of distribution, marketing and R& D ...the price to the end user , we the consumer..the price has ballooned to $ 6,000.00 - $7,000.00💥💥 $$$$££€€¥¥₩₩
We don't need to be a financial expert to determine that their is ALOT of OUTRAGEOUS, pure greed , and MASSIVE profit margins here , plain and simple
There is NO WAY that for any other reason that a mass produced bicycle ,can justify their pricing , especially in GCN comparison to the motorcycle industry
They both share the very same business parameters
A friend of mine, who's a finance professional, and not a cyclist, made a good point though.....all things considered, $15,000 gets you pretty much the top-of-the-line bike, which is cheaper than a top-of-the-line motorcycle, boat, car, scuba gear, fishing equipment, the list could go on.....his golf clubs and country club membership is over $20,000 per year!
With the exception of obvious pastimes such as something such as running - where your biggest cost is likely your run tracker - being at the top of the chain for expense in the hobby of cycling is often quite a bit cheaper than other things we could be doing that implement motors and/or forward motion of some sort.
Still doesn't make sense though, but I thought it was an interesting observation by him.
Local bike shops are also getting screwed by this too, they are going to be collateral damage. If you’re in North America you’re paying way more for components. Buy everything online at a discount until manufactures and distributors get the message.
These arguments completely ignore the complicity of the buyer in the pricing of these products. I ride bicycles as well as motorcycles and part of the issue I see is that many cyclists - especially roadies - have been led to expect and want "the latest and the greatest" all the time (even if it's just an incremental change) in the same way as electronics geeks expect a new iPhone every year. In the motorcycle world there have been lots of new stuff added over the years like 6-axis IMUs, TC, improved aero, more carbon fiber, clutchless shifters, radar cruise control, VVT, electronic suspension, etc but most motorcyclists don't just go "Yep, gotta have that right away!" and instead go "Hmm, that's cool" and proceed to keep riding their trusty years old ride until it's a logical time to upgrade.
Not all cyclists buy the latest kit regularly of course but because a decently large enough cadre of cyclists keep buying the newest kit at exorbitant prices the cycling industry gets away with charging these insane prices for high-end kit year in and year out - high-end kit that most don't really need. If cyclists tended to behave more like motorcyclists in their buying habits then bicycle manufacturers would have to aim more towards the middle and low-end rather than try to keep cranking out eye-wateringly expensive stuff frequently.
That isn't to say I think it's wrong for people to spend big money on whatever bike they want - push or motor - but just that this video attempts too much to justify the exorbitant pricing on bicycles and ignores a lot of the realities including how consumers are to blame as well, not just the industry. I personally think it's okay for people to keep buying super pricey bikes - it's your money, do with it as you please - but that shouldn't be to the detriment of less well-heeled buyers.
The same thing can also be said towards car prices being as expensive as a house. But no one is talking about this for some reason
Lots of people talk about that.
Agreed. There seems to be no limit of exotic super cars and even regular cars that are well out of the sane price range of the average consumer... so why not have the same in the bicycle industry?
@@buster.keatonBecause they're bicycles, something so simple doesn't have the materials and technology used in high end motor vehicles which usually justifies the motor vehicles' price.
So you're agreeing that bikes are overpriced.
It may be because this is a bicycle Chanel drrr.
Mmm not Motorcycle experts then Hope Foggy isn’t watching 🙈🙈🙈 lol most top road bikes make my Ducati look like a bargain these days haha 😜
The comparison of steel towards carbon does not make sense as bicycle prices almost doubled during the last decade.
As a Motorcyclist, MTBer, Triathlete, Road cyclist, indoor cyclist and a commuter cyclist.... The comparative cost of a pedal cycle over a motor cycle is absolutely ridiculous.... This video does nothing to help the cyclist at all. Poor show GCN very poor show, GCN for the people ... Not at all. It shows that GCN are themselves complicit in big brand awareness, sponsorship and price hiking. If the big brands "Tech" "Aero", "lightweight" and "testing" is always the topic of new content for views and funds.... What else can we expect. Very little mention of the more value brands offerings such as Cube and Sensa.... Cmon GCN have a word with yourselves.... "Fun is Fast" fast is not irresponsible financing.... Due to peer pressure and sales promotion.... Be respectful be responsible be reputable......
The bicycle industry has become way too greedy.
There are two reasons why road bikes can carry a $15,000 price tag -- UCI forces pro-level bikes into the consumer market, and people buy them. This entire video comes across as a rationalization for these silly prices.
Only some bikes cost that much. Nearly all those bikes have a much cheaper version(same mold)that's also UCI approved.
@@veganpotterthevegan True, but lots of non-pro riders get persuaded by reviewers and the like to buy way more bike than they need. It's their money, but when they do that it encourages bike makers to maintain the high pricing AND to "trickle down" the high-end, high-profit tech through their line, raising the price of every model. These lower-end models are still UCI-approved, but they're not getting all the press the upper end are getting; that's focused on the bleeding edge because that's where the highest profit lies.
@rangersmith4652 that's true for everything though. People have more house than they need, more car than they need, more clothes and food than they need. People in industrialized nations with even modest expendable income do this with nearly everything
*If regular people don't know that the cheaper frames are also UCI approved, they're total morons. Especially since they walk into bike shops and see those bikes right next to the high end bikes with different price tags.
@@veganpotterthevegan You're not wrong, but in this case we also have an international body _requiring_ bike makers to commercialize all their pro-level parts or else racers can't use them. What other area of life has that? Sure, I can buy a pro-level chainsaw, but not because some governing body tells chainsaw makers they have to sell pro models to everyone.
@rangersmith4652 track and field, and skiing, require that equipment used by pros must be available to the masses.
Even bobsledding and louge require that you can buy their sleighs
The only reason bikes are so expensive is that there are people willing to pay for them. Weekend riders on £10,000 and upwards is all the proof you need, and while not every weekend rider can afford this luxury it is within reach of a lot more people than it is to buy e.g. a Grand Prix motorbike.
Wrong comparison I believe: a WSB or BSB (look it up) lookalike motorbike that you can still drive on the road costs 30-50k. A 15k motorbike would be the equivalent of a 2-3k bike: very decent quality, more than enough for an average rider. MotoGP is all prototypes so so a whole other world really.
Not really true. For 20k you get a motorcycle that is (in reality) top of the notch. Everything above is as relevant as the difference between Ultegra and Dura Ace....
This sounds like another bike industry apologist video. Things seem to have changed, and Warner Discovery are asserting their corporate greed B.S., a shame.
Why don't you start a company selling bikes for that they are really worth then? Or just explain to everyone why a company, pick one of the millions isn't pumping out $1500 super bikes and rolling in sales?
@JoshuaVoice29: I totally agree with you on this.
@@kidShibuya: You totally are misunderstanding Joshua's comments here. You clearly do not understand Joshua's comments here.
I’m all about budget builds with new old stock or used/vintage and I took those THOUSANDS of dollars that I would have spent on a high end bicycle and bought a property/invest. I’ll always recommend riders who aren’t prepared 100% to be a pro to do the same.
Their ignorance of motorcycles is astounding. There’s so much wrong with this video that I don’t know where to start.
"Race readiness" How many people are actually racing, though? I can't find an adult bike for less than $4,000US at several local bike shops. They exist online, but who wants to take that chance without a test ride?
Come on, "motorbikes haven't changed in the last 50 years" is a bit rich... please put side-by-side a 1970s motorbike with a current one. Do they look the same, have the electronics, evolved? Perhaps, you should have asked somebody who knows.
In the USA, where we've entered the era of $100k+ pickup trucks/SUVs (some at $150k+), this makes a $15k road bike seem almost reasonable....
I've always said that you lot at gcn have got your heads up your you know where.
Simple, the current cost of bikes CANNOT be justified, as others have said it's what people are willing to pay and sadly cycling became the new golf for those with an expendable income.
We can all only hope that the current retail crisis causes manufacturers to rethink their pricing, the industry needs a hard reset.
We need to stop kidding new cyclists into thinking they need to spend £3k+ on their first bike. Cycling should be an accessible sport not something you have to buy your way into because the media has made you believe you need to be on a carbon bike with deep section wheels just to make it round your first sportive.
20 years ago seasoned Audax riders on steel framed Thorn touring bikes were tearing my legs off and it was humbling, now it's the bike that proves your credentials as a cyclist, not your ability.
I understand GCN and most other media outlets are largely sponsored BUT it's time to take some responsibility, we're not idiots, pricing and cycling trends nobody asked for can't be defended. When bikes and components start becoming so proprietary that a home mechanic can't work on them then someone has made a mistake, we don't need a dozen bottom bracket and headset standards, we don't need full internal cable routing, we don't want to a cabinet full of specialist tools, we need compatibility and the ability to easily repair our own bikes with standard parts from the local bike shop, like the good old days.
For context I'm in my 40s and have been riding for 30 years and I've never been so jaded with the state of cycling.
A 105 equipped bike should be within everyone's budget and that's the way it should always be.
Rant over, get out on your bike, whatever it may be and don't be influenced...