What is the Bike Industry Doing so Wrong?
Vložit
- čas přidán 3. 06. 2024
- It's no surprise the bike industry seems to be struggling across the board. Check out the video above to see what the industry is doing wrong and what we can do to help. Source's for all articles used below.
@GCPerformance18 for some absolutely amazing cycling content. I seriously can not tell you enough how much I enjoy their content so subscribe to them if you are not already. And maybe subscribe to me too while you're at it. You know, if you wanna.
road.cc/content/news/rapha-an...
road.cc/content/news/wiggle-c...
road.cc/content/news/probikek...
0:00 Intro
0:40 Online Retailers
2:10 Local Shops
5:10 Climbing Prices
8:13 Bespoke
9:54 What is Working?
11:36 What Does it All Mean?
13:37 Closing Thoughts
15:22 Post Credits
#cycling #roadbike #procycling #shoplocal #trekbike #bike #bicycle - Sport
www.cyclingweekly.com/news/price-slashing-pushes-canyon-into-the-red More bad financials announced today, this time from Canyon.
Dude the industry MUST push expensive crap 💩 disc brakes etc because nobody would buy a new bike if they knew they could buy a Dura Ace 2016 road bike and be just as fast as the latest bikes. If Normies knew this the industry would collapse...
@jaredfontaine2002
I just don't understand cyclist. I can't afford a Ferrari so Enzo must be screwing me. Buy a Porsche and be happy. The rest of us will make do with our second hand Miata.
Dutch here, not a critique but a fact, many Americans think that sport bikes are normal bikes, but this YT Channel is 100% correct. We have old brands that are specialized in normal bikes, more "expensive", but low maintenance and alot of features. Sure you can buy an expensive Pro sports bike , that b ike is intended for the 1%. Not to offend.
Jeez. Canyon went from $30M profit to $2M loss in a year!
Part of the problem is with cycling culture. I have cycled on and off all my life. Last year I started joining some club rides from a local bike store. I was with my 15 yr old bike with 105 components surrounded by people with new >$5000 bikes and people were literally looking at me and making snide comments about my bike. The truth is I cannot justify the money to replace my bike and I was able to hang on at the front of the group ride just fine because I am really good shape. But this definitely discouraged me from joining the group.
Roadies? In MTB culture you might get looks if your bike is that old but MTBers are stoked you want to ride with the group. I love group rides as you get to see others ride the trails and see how you stack up with skills and endurance. Most MTB group rides are very accommodating so you never feel pressured to perform.
My bike is a Giant with 105 gears. I am not a race biker. And also i am much more confident that all this cycling will not help you when you are on a brink of a violent situation. So that why i did go back to box training and Fitness
2009s 2010s bikes are excellent machines frankly designed around athletes who were doping, modern bikes are designed around cushy consumers.
Keep your 15yr old rig add deep dish carbon wheels, an excellent upgrade, and smoke your group ride 🔥
I own a modern bike that's fun and different and fast but wouldn't really call it an upgrade, I burn 15k$ rigs habitually on my 2009 alloy Allez triple, With no plans to ever sell it, at a certain level of quality the differences are marginal. Ride on
@@king1203Mcool story bro
After 20 odd years playing team sports, I prefer to ride solo. Not really a solution for someone into the group rides, though.
If you're good enough for a $14K bike, a pro team will provide one for you. If you're not a pro, you don't need a $14K bike (but of course you're free to do whatever you want with your money).
👍👍👍
Boom! Well said! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
The reality is that there are a good number of people willing to Swipe their credit and go into debt to buy the latest and greatest bike. Most of those people, not all but most would be better served putting a fraction of that 14k into a coach or a good structuring plan. Instead spa ton on a bike put a fraction that and some grit into becoming a stronger rider
sames goes for people that buys ferrari and lambos if theyre fast enough will they buy one for you or just want to look fast driving slow 🤔
It becomes a status game for mamils
We have a bike group in our city that does 40-80km rides but they insist that you have to sustain around 34km/hr to ride with them. We have another group, run by a group of young men who restore vintage bikes, that is a no-drop ride. They average about 20km/hr. They're a friendly, inclusive group and more reminiscent of what cycling groups should be. We are not pros, we don't need to ride like pros.
Understand the point, but 20km/h? That’s not road cycling, it would feel slow even on a fully…
Same in Oklahoma
@@vodizzzleyou don't have hills, do you?
@@enki42eaI live in the Austrian Alps 😅 and I am really not trying to brag here that my rides have an avg speed of more than 20km/h …Or do you mean miles per hour maybe?
20mph isnt hard to sustain if youre in good shape. of course cycling is more about posing than exercising
Totally agree. The industry is eating itself.
As for the snobbery aspect. I leave it behind. Ive been cycling for over 60 years.....on my own. Nothing can beat just being out on the open road. And if you want competition just use the clock. Nobody ever beats the clock!!!
Me too. I bought an honest to goodness used Gary Fisher Montage two years ago for $165 for rocky, muddy, rooty trails along the Potomac near my home. I leave the snobbery and aloofness behind but recognize that it deters sales.
When I started road cycling I joined a club of elderly bike enthusiasts, doing 150 - 250 km all day trips. One of the organizers, age 68! isn't even using a road bike, but a 25+ year old aluminum trekking bike, flat bar. He can do a 30 average and outrides most on alpine accents. Long story: ignore the snobs, enjoy the ride!
So cool. I hope I’m that guy when I grow up.
I commute on a $700 gravel bike I mite hit 14mph going down hill the rest of the time maybe 10mph at most really do not care about speed not the point
I daily 30km for work on a 30 year old Alan cyclocross in hard yakka and blunnies , the Lycra fraternity don’t acknowledge me not even a nod .
But he could spend $6000 and average 31.275. What a Cretan!
@@GB-ez6ge
He's too chill and has no ambition.
And on any steep slope he just keeps outclassing everybody else so hard, it's not even funny.
I was walking by a new Trek store and I thought "hey bikes! better have a look". I saw a 105 equipped bike and I was like "oh ya that's probably the only bike here I can afford", I Iooked at the tag expecting maybe $4K canadian and I was shocked; $9000!!! That's about $6600 US. For a bike with a 105 groupset!!! To be fair it's the 12-speed Di2 105 but still, that's absolutely insane.
I keep saying Tiagra 4700 is the new groupset of the people.
This right here in my opinion is the absolute core of what’s wrong with the bike industry. There’s no real supply for like the mid-level, aggressive, fast training bike, that you can also sort of commute in, and you also feel comfortable locking up in the city.
Either spend three months salary on a bike, or (after getting lucky finding someone who has something in your price range) you take your chances buying a used bike that probably doesn’t work out as well as you imagined and it doesn’t fit you well, and things start breaking down faster than you thought they would.
There should be Ultegra mechanical groupset bikes with drop bars, that have aggressive geometry, that are in the $1200-1500 range. Not that 4200 to 6000 range.
It’s just flat out, greed, like most things. These companies are just too greedy, and they’re run by people who only care about profit and don’t have any real attachment to cycling culture. It’s obvious. Or if they do, they are getting absolutely vetoed by people who are in the company and only care about profit.
@@lylewalker5681 there are bikes that are 1k. theyre used, but your grandkids will be riding them long after youre gone because they were made from high quality steel. guaranteed the groupsets still work too, you dont have to spend thousands of dollars on a bike, you just want to
And an entry level 105 bike is $2k.
I bought a new mTB recently from canyon. There are others like them-the local bike shops charge massive margins. Canyon this second has a di2 105 bike with a cf frame for $2600 USD
What model were you looking at that cost $9k? In Canada the Trek Domane with 105 Di2 is CAD$6k (still a lot of money, yes, but not 9k).
Remember when you were a kid on a bike. The freedom. The adventure. Not knowing where the next road or trail went. Just keep riding like that and all is good.
there's a song that totally captures that feeling. Yellow Bike by Pedro the Lion.
That's what they call "gravel cycling" those days, right? ;-)
My $400 BMX was the greatest thing on earth. Life was so simple.
AMEN to this!!!!!!@@justinbogart278
the best way to roll
I'm a 105 guy all the way. Cycling is the new golf.
I have been in the bike industry since 1982...currently an independent sales rep for many well known brands..in my opinion, the product managers are designing bikes for other industry professionals..they lost the common peoples need with proprietary parts..new look at me engineering and coming up with solutions to problems that do not exist..
So thoroughly stated! I agree. No one needs a $10K+ full CF framed bike. It wasn’t a problem that I had. I wanted a bike and, if I only bought what I needed, would have bought an aluminum framed 105 groupo with rim brakes. These bikes should not cost $4000. It’s just not good for the sport or recreational rider.
You're spot on, I've been riding bikes my whole life, even being well into my 30s I've yet to get a driver's license, i don't need one, i can do anything on the bike, because of the increasing snobbery and ridiculous markets, i started salvaging and restoring old vintage Norwegian steel bikes, they're the most fun and comfortable bikes I've ridden, and they're functional too and extremely economic, they were designed and built to last generations of abuse and neglect, they came complete with full cover stainless steel fenders, a stand, lights, a rear rack, service manual etc, heck some even came with a neat little toolbox with a pump, tools for servicing your bike and a patch kit, we need more bikes like that on the market, bikes for casual regular folks who just want to get around.
Exactly! I second that!
This just made me think of a scene from Silicon Valley where their beta test did incredibly well but then when they launch, no one wants to use it. They realize they had only given the beta to other tech guys, and not real people, so they didn't get any real world feedback just what their fellow engineers thought of it.
As someone who started racing motorcycles in the 70's and mountain bikes in the mid 80's it's insane that a road bike can cost more than an electric start fuel injected 450 four stroke MX bike with state of the art long travel suspension, adjustable engine mapping, quick shift, traction control and launch control.
My sentiments exactly! As an MX racer from 1975-2006, I have made that “very statement” so many times lol. Yep, pretty sad that we can purchase most any 2024, 450F for $10k, or a 250 for 8k. The disparity is OFF THE CHARTS.
That was 55 years ago.
Yeah it’s especially crazy with road bikes because by the time you’ve spent maybe $1500, you’ve gotten so much of what you could ever want out of a road bike.
They will cost whatever some idiot is willing to pay.
@@gibbogleThis is exactly the problem. I mean, spend what you like on whatever - not my business. But the industry also knows, and plays by that rule.
I lived in Copenhagen for 6 years and it was so good to see a place where people used bikes to get from A to B. The bike infrastructure in the city is amazing. Over half of commuters get to work by bike. And most use very basic, inexpensive bikes. Tradies have cargo bikes. Parents take kids to school on Christiania bikes. Virtually every corner has a bike shop. I loved it!!
I'm glad you find Copenhagen a great place for biking. Sometimes I find it a bit stressful but since there's bikes everywhere that goes with the territory 😅
It's also easy to complain when you are used to a place and not view it in your more positive light. At least no one is looked at negatively because of what they ride. Only how they drive.
@@charismahornum-fries691 exactly! I always love it when I’m able to be back in CPH and borrow a friends bike to get around. A wonderful city!
Right, because Denmark has insane car prices. A cheap Mazda MX-5 that is $32,500 from factory is slapped with 127.6% taxes including VAT, so the final price drumroll... $70,000+ for that car. The crappiest rusty buckets in Denmark cost like some brand new cars in US. No wonder they drug kids to school on cargo bikes in pouring rain. The public transportation is top notch however, I loved DSB trains
I just rode my 25 year old steel GT mountain bike the other day and it still rode like the first day I bought it. Of course I had to do minor maintenance on it but the only thing not original are the tires. I paid $400 for it in 1996 dollars. Still rides great and I had a lot of fun. New bikes today are pretty showy but they have cheap components. It's like they are built to be thrown away.
Totally agree with what you say, I've been riding 51 years. Racing, MBs, road, travelling etc. The sport has become snobery and im glad these companies are suffering with their stupid prices! There's enough really decent second hand stuff about now.
I think it has always been snobby. I remember racing MBs back in the late 90s and seeing the carbon and TI bikes and thinking they were rocket ships or something.
It certainly has, but its same as any other industry now. A British company that begins with an R....,😂 used to be a great bike shop, now its selling carbon frames with problems...and its like most now, walking into a boring boutique with own brand BS
Spot on.
There's 2 problems happening at the same time.
Gen Y wants to be social but they don't know how to do that.
And, bike industry was taken over by weirdos on the fringe of mass population. They've been told to do what they're doing by an even greater set of dumbasses in business finance world.
Local bike shops died before the year 2000.
I lost 3 shops and 20,000 Local residents.
Bad doesn't describe it.
My whole city was destroyed.
I haven't had a conversation with a bike shop in 30+ years.
They've been maximum shit for 40 years.
The professionals are cheats and have been for multiple decades.
I've RETIRED FROM LISTENING TO ALL MEN.
I did that decades ago.
Mass population keeps deluding you.
I'm glad the internet is destroying their delusions.
I'm glad they're eating themselves alive.
They can keep destroying share holders money.
Retail just keep buying up all production items.
The consumer is irrelevant cause stock market keeps funding all this stupidity.
On the subject of “gatekeeping”, I’ve been a roadie from many years and recently started mountain bike riding. Man, a lot of those dudes are a real pain in the ass on trails. They openly want you off of “their” trails if you’re a novice and can’t keep a pace they feel is appropriate, and many have no patience and mock noobs. That was definitely not the experience I had when I started road riding. Unless you own the land the trail is on, just deal with it and try being a mentor instead of a tool.
I started cycling in 1986 at 12 after watching the Tour de France on CBS. My dad bought me a $100 Free Spirit from Sears. I wrapped Benotto tape on it, took off the kickstand, and had the best youth I could ask for. The only smudge on that memory is the bike shop snobs with their Campagnolo C record Italian racing bikes. My Free Spirit had to weigh about 30 lbs, but I would keep up with their racers. My bike was stolen a few years later. I learned at a young age that it's about the feeling, not the tech. I never bought into the bicycle arms race.
Late 80s I was a c record snob. Could only afford the brake levers and hubs. 30+ years later my bike has c record levers and hubs.. not the same ones, I just figure I like them..
there is a special place in hell for bike thieves.
I had a Free Spirit BMX that got stolen!
1982, college dropout, met a guy who said I could make money delivering packages, took my little sister's two-sizes-too small LADIES' FRAME Fuji Sports 10 and rode it for 3 months until I got a Stumpjumper Sport. My bike snob housemate, owner of a Motorbacon, laughed when I brought it home, saying "You spent $500 on a PAPERBOY BIKE?!" rolling on the floor, laughing. Perfect bike for a messenger, rode it to death.
Great video, and I agree with all you say, but there’s something else that we’re experiencing now, that may also be making cycling less popular.
Bike prices have now come to the attention of criminals, on an entirely new level, that we haven’t seen before.
Here in the UK, in the larger cities, riding a decent bike could result in you being followed by moped gangs carrying machetes. We’ve had some really nasty incidents, involving extreme violence.
Riding a nice bike, at least here in the UK, has become a potentially risky activity, and I suspect that this fear, or at least the perception of fear, is contributing to this major suppression of the bike market.
I’m in my sixties, and I’ve cycled on some very high tech road bikes for over forty years, but there is absolutely no way I would buy a decent bike today, even if I had the money.
It’s just not worth the risk now.
@@benm468 part and parcel of living in big city - Sadiq Khan, mayor of london. You peeps get what you vote for
CULTURAL ENRICHMENT
After a lifetime of cycling I've learned that my older gear isn't what keeps me from being competitive. Its me. For years I tore up competitive group rides on older gear. Now I'm older and slower, the same gear still serves me as well and I have the self-confidence and awareness to either accept where I am or find groups that fit my abilities. Yes, support your LBS...not the corporate stores.
As we get older we just enjoy the ride. We can smile at the wanna-be racer with the $4k plus bicycle realizing that one day he too will finally understand the wisdom & experience of simplicity.
I feel the whole system is broken. When you watch GCN, they are never telling you about afordable bikes for enthusiasts. They showcase the latest and greates. Their videos are about: Aero vs lightweight, while most of us would not care at all of the differences. I personally felt free when I moved to a steel frame with parts that, while great (GRX anyone) I can still repair myself. No more drooling after things I do not need at all.
Yep, i work at a bike shop but i can't afford to buy a bike lol, it's out of control with no reasonable options for regular people. There's no entry level anymore.
And 90% of the stuff they hype up is meaningless to me, even if i had the money i'm not using dropper posts, wireless shifting and all that trendy BS. I ride singlespeed anyways lol. I just want a simple, solid OG two triangles of steel frame with horizontal dropouts, steep headangle, high BB a 60-80mm fork, mechanical disc brakes, and something like surly hubs with 26" dx32s.
My only real options anymore are used dirt jump frames, 10 year old forks to avoid high travel, and just keep riding my dx32 wheelset.
One of the reasons I can't stand Bicycling magazine. I was gifted a subscription by relatives a few years ago and it was so rough to read. It made me feel so bad about my old bikes and gear. And the bike reviews had "value" bikes in the $5-7k range, while 90% of what they were reviewing were over $10k.
Exactly! I ride a Pinarello. A 2017 GAN. I follow Pina on I-Gram and ALL they EVER post is the latest paint scheme on the Dogma F. You would think it is the only bike they offer. Which is probably the point. As for GCN, the bike companies provide them bikes for free, so of course they put them on the absolute best of the best because that's what they want to sell.
GCN is a company that wants to make money and they will not bite the hand that feeds (big name bike brands)
@@cho4d You're absolutely right. I'm not blaming GCN. It's the way business is done.
I live in Colorado Springs. The bike shops here have actually done a really stellar job of stocking things the average person can afford! Very thankful for them and their focus on being people oriented over just selling.
those are the shops we really need.
Springs here too 🤟
stocking cheaper bikes is focusing on selling considering nobody can afford a 10k+ bike
@@dobbscycleworks I'm 71 years old and have been racing and riding since I was 10. I owned a bicycle shop in the late 1970's. At that time, clothing was something that we just started to sell. Online bike stores were just starting and as a result, we lowered our prices, on bike parts, to compete somewhat. This was a smart move for us as we got to be known as the lowest priced shop in town for bike equipment. We were a very low overhead neighborhood type shop. We started our shop with a $6k total investment. Yes, it took us a couple of years to build up our shop and inventory before the 3 of us owners could make a living. We were in an unreal time of the industry. There wasn't a bike that came in the door that we didn't have parts for or couldn't fix. Now I look at the bike industry and wonder what happened? When I was 15 years old I bought a full campy Schwinn Paramount for $234. I just got some Sidi shoes the other day for $250. It really made me stop and think. Yeah, sure money today doesn't buy what it used to, but you're right about what's happened to the bike industry. I don't need the same bike as Mark Cavendish and I never will. The bike industry has over time shot itself in the foot. It's been bleeding for a while now. I wonder if it's similar to the electric car industry? Not all of us can afford a $40K plus electric car or a $14K S-Works Tarmac. Sure, my house is worth a lot more than when I bought it, but I would give up all the money if it could get life back to some sort of reasonable level in this country. I could go back to downtube shift levers, I really could. I would love to see average people being able to afford a college education, a house and even a new bike once in a while. Wtf happened America?
You do have a couple great bike shops in the Springs. Wish all were as good.
I've just gone and built up a long term dream bike. It's a part NJS fixed gear with riser handlebars. The total build came in at around £1000 for a mix of new and used parts. My local bike shop bill for wheel build and all the bearings to be serviced came in at £230. The smile that he gave me when I asked him for a 36H four cross wheel build was priceless. Please all look after your local bike shop. We need them as much as they need us.
You nailed it; I completely agree. I was feeling bad about riding my aluminum rim brake bike but no longer.
instead of shelling out I will continue to rock old school. Thanks for posting!
rim brake for life. I am considering doing a video on building a little aluminum crit blaster for fun.
Your bike will probably outlast the latest & greatest wonder-bikes!
Riders now a days are calling that "under biking", it's all the rage. Just goes to show the staying power of a good classic bicycle.
I brought my aluminium frame bike over 10 years ago it cost me $1000 which at the time was a lot of money for me. I ride about 100kms a week commuting to work and it does the job. I see no reason to fork over 1000s for a new bike that will do the same thing
@@kiwishitloard2568 I hear ya; I just returned from a fantastic ride on my Trek Emonda ALR. It still delivers great performance and feedback since the day I bought it. All I need to do is lube the chain and I am ready to go for the next one!
Bikes also became insanely expensive because the industry decided that it was going to make solutions for problems that consumers didn’t have. Exotic alloys and electronic shifting sounds great until you realize it doesn’t make you ride faster, it made your wallet lighter though. All of the online sellers that you spoke of going under sell the name brand junk. Bikesdirect is still chugging along because they sell entry level bikes. I’m also the guy on the aluminum frame, mech grupo bike, average kit as you described.
Bikesdirect has a Ultegra Di2 carbon bike for $2799 and a Ultegra Di2 titanium bike for $3499. They also have a GRX 2x10 carbon bike for $1399!
@@georgekrpan3181 They also sell bikes for $300 to $400 for entry level consumers. They really cover the whole market.
I've had four Bikesdirect bikes and really enjoyed them. Very reasonably priced and do fine when taken care of.
@@sailingaeolus I've had many BD bikes too.
The electronic shifting push just seems like it was completely targeted towards wealthy, middle-aged and older men specifically. Like somehow people are afraid of mechanical shifting, or feel like it’s just too much effort. And it’s as close as you can be to actually going to an electronic bike, without actually going there.
It’s just so goddamn expensive, and unless you’re professional cyclist, it doesn’t really give you any real advantage over mechanical groups.
Start off cycling and use downtube shifters, you will quickly get used to it, you’ll be fast, you will not be spending $5200 for a road bike.
So much of getting fast is understanding inherently when you need to use your gears, what gear you need to be in, anticipating what gear you’re gonna have to be in as you see a hill coming up or some undulations, understanding where in the cassette you are, adjusting the shift at the right time, using momentum, etc.
All that shit is just something that real cyclists need to master.
My experience might be useful to any bike shop owners or employees watching this: The bike shop that's a stone's throw from my house is a nice big shop, merchandising is done well, the store really looks good. When I walk in there, the guys just look at me. I try to strike up a conversation about whatever, routes to ride, new gear in the case, etc., but they just give monosyllabic answers. I brought in a dented rim and they said, "yeah, it'll be a few days, we'll call you." I waited five. They didn't. I walked in to see and I got, "yeah, no, not done yet, maybe tomorrow." No apology or recognition that their customer service could be better. I don't shop there anymore. I ride 7 miles to the shop in the next town over because they say hi, they converse with me about my repair, we chat about local rides, etc. The shop is small and minimalist, really no decor at all, but the people are good. An LBS is an experience. I bet Dobbs Cycle Works is a cool place to hang out and buy stuff. So is the LBS I travel farther to shop at.
Prices shot up during the pandemic. The previous $5k mountain bike is now a $7k+ bike. I was bike shopping last spring and wound up with a Norco Sight A1 because ot was a decent value. So many bikes I looked at came with low-end parts and there were $8k. Now, those same bikes are heavily discounted.
I bought a YT Izzo for about $7100 CAD (+ tax). The next year my husband bought the same bike for $5,100 - same build. And then it went sub-$5K. YT makes great bikes and if you get on their email list, you can catch very good deals.
Even Cheap Walmart bikes are $500...before the p-demic Walmart highest price for a Bike was like $150 maybe $175
My most expensive bike is around 1000 EUR. Dahon folding bike with generator, 24 gears, LED lights with capacitor.
They have lost their collective minds. $14k for a mountain bike and $9k for a race ready motor cycle is totally illogical.
This is exactly what I did. 20+ years of being in the industry, living in a resort downhill town and last year I was looking to pick up a new Trek Slash. When they told me the cost, I laughed and left. I decided it was time to make the shift to motorcycles. I bought a brand new Kawasaki and all the gear. I found a 1998 Beta Techno trials moto for 800. I know own 2 motorcycles, all the gear and I am still under what Trek wanted for their new Slash. No regrets. I still work part time in a small rental shop and maintain the fleet but I will not buy a new bicycle even with my pro deals.
Personally I think a good price for a new entry level road bike should be ~$500. Even $1000 is asking a lot to get someone interested in the sport. I've been riding a bikes direct wellington 2.0 3x7 (~$400) for the last couple of years and it's been excellent. There's definitely a feeling of inferiority, however it still gets me from point A to point B averaging 15mph, so that's a good enough introduction for me. As I keep accumulating miles the justification for dishing out ~$1500 on an upgrade is growing, but I still feel pretty satisfied with what I've got.
I have been riding seriously for about 10 years and my next bike will be a used bike and I refuse to spend over 3k, preferably quite a bit less
They are asking a lot for an entry level bike but still put on a tourney groupset, it is doing ok. My biggest problem with it is that I am looking at child bikes with unknown brands and they have the same groupset, ridiculous... What can I do? "Changing the groupset doesn't make sense, just buy the higher model" No, I won't reward these companies for their disrespect. I will change the groupset with a decent one, no matter the cost, and use the bike as long as I can.
@@mbgk4190 I'm not sure if I'm understanding the connotation of your reply correctly. My bike has a tourney group set (3x7) with friction shifters and I don't really have any qualms with it. It shifts reliably and fast, and the maintenance is super simple. I would like to better understand my options and the cost for an upgrade to tiagra/sora (preferably with friction shifters), but that's a bit outside my current knowledge in bike specifications and compatibility.
when I first started there were so many amazing companies making entry bikes in the $600 range. and sure they weren't the best bikes in the world but they certainly weren't the worst.
@@dobbscycleworks I think the industry should target around that price for starter bikes. You don't need the latest tech, all you need is a structurally sound, safe, and reliable machine. Ensuring the components have an easy path for upgrades is the way to go. A fair amount of my first dive into the sport has been getting the right fit with the components I have. Swapping out the saddle, handlebar tape, making adjustments, getting comfortable with clipless pedals, etc. but those changes were only something I felt were necessary after learning how my body interacts with the bike. Having options for cheaper components makes it much more financially comfortable dialing in bike fit. I now have a good idea what I'd be looking for when seeking to upgrade, something that I definitely lacked at the start. Fortunately, I think I made a pretty decent choice starting with the wellington, it has treated me well!
Fantastic video. Absolutely nailed it! I try so hard to explain this to people in the shops I used to work at and to those in the community. So many people view it as necessary to have a 7-10k bike for 2-3 rides a week.
It's wild.
When you place form over function that is what you get. Bought a titanium bike on Ebay for at least a third of the price it would cost new. A LOT cheaper than a carbon wonder-bike with disc brakes & electronic shifting.
Some great observations. I own and run a small community bike shop in business for over 20 years. Still love bikes and sharing my passion with my customers. My view is the "Bicycle Industry", is generally dominated by bean counters who think selling one $14,000 superbike is preferable to selling seven $2,000 great rides.
A quality alu bike with sora/tiagra is all you need.
With grown knowledge you learn to optimize it.
Tiagra 4700 might be one of the most versatile in their whole line up. I have a complete groupo of it in boxes just begging for a bike to be put on.
i have the very same feeling about mtb goupsets - currently using 2x9 and i was shocked how well it works and how i don't need more gears (i have just adjusted range of the crankset and range of the cassete, to achieve what i need). components are so cheap - i can replace a whole drivetrain for a fraction of a 12spd cassette.
@@seryjnymeteopata2162 In the hilly Algarve I allways ride 2x 9 or 11 speed on the road.
The terrain makes you shift alot. I noticed that 9 speed is not a
handicap atall when speed differs so much. This must be similar on mtb.
In other words; you do not need a tight cassette when its up and down.
While I admit that nobody needs Ultegra, let alone Dura Ace, I have to say that Tiagra and even more so Sora are really crappy groups. Especially because you can only get them for mechanical disc brakes only. The jump in quality to 105 (machanical shifting, hydraulic brakes) is significant and the extra 400 €/$/£ are totally worth it.
@@einundsiebenziger5488 That is exactly how the bike industry tries to seperate you
of your money. When you are only on dry roads you do need diskbrakes either.
Last year I bought a lightly used Trek Domane rimbrake with Tiagra for a small fraction of
the cost of a new Domane.
Bravo! You have clearly laid out the problem and provided action that we can take. A reset is in order. Unfortunately, I think there are other industries in similar trouble. I have riden for more than 30 years. It is part of who I am. Two years ago I was able to buy a new bike that slotted in above good entry level but way below the high end and it still cost as much as my son's first used car. The math doesn't make sense any more. Keep riding and share the experience!
you should have spent less on your bike and more on your sons car
That was exactly my thought on it,that costs more than a used car I'm not buying that!
Rapha have a lot to answer for - when they first came on the scene their jerseys were so much more expensive than everyone else's. Rather than Rapha being seen as overpriced and therefore failing, the rest of the industry just seemed to say 'holy crap, we can sell our stuff for THAT much' and then did - it evened itself out, but upwards.
(For the record, I agree that Rapha's kit is of the highest quality for the most part, but even so...)
Very true! I also reacted when Rapha came along! 200$ for a jersey is just stupid! And the ppl who bought it sheeple. Nalin, Santini etc are just as good. Which every day rider needs aero woven mesh in their garment? You can get aero socks and skin suits for tens of thousands of dollars, that is insane!
The Jersey prices are just bonkers. No rhyme of reason except because they can and at that price they do not need to sell volume, only enough. I noticed the same; prices for everything else also went up when other companies saw some people are willing to dish out twice the industry standard.
The bibs are another story. There is no guarantee their chamois is any better than the decent brands at half the price and bibs are about comfort and durability. Cyclists may need to go through many before the one that suits them best is found. Not feasible at 200+ a pop.
I am looking forward to Neo Pro and the newer Van Rysel stuff which is supposed to be released soon. I hope the cycling market corrects back to reasonable levels.
Rapha- made in China junk
So true what you're saying there! I'd love to support my LBS, they used to be very well known in a larger area, but a few years ago they've also gone the way of only selling S-Works and LiteSpeed. The store now has one of each in the window, almost nothing else.
It almost has this "Do you have an appointment?" vibe...
I'm 100% in agreement with your assessment. Bike and apparel prices are out of control. Thank you for introducing me to NeoPro, I'll be ordering some well needed cycling kit soon. We all need to remember to distinguish between needs and wants and not get sucked into buying the next shiny thing
they're really amazing kits, I need to order some new ones soon.
do you need to wear spandex to ride a bike or do you want to? because i neither need nor want to
So so so true… when I was actively racing back in college (2008ish) I remember being able to get a very good XC race mtb for @ $2000. Not to mention the fact that you could get entry level road and mtbs with 105 or LX/XT for around $750-$1000!!!! If the industry doesn’t reduce the amount of their “elite” bike models and increase their “entry” models, people will walk away from the sport. In fact I’m trying to find a nice mtb right now for my wife who wants to try and get into it and in order to get a bike that is not totall garbage and crazy heavy, we have to start at over $2300…. This should not be the case … loved your talk ! Can’t wait to see more of your videos
I’m doing the same thing. I want to find an entry level trail bike that is decent and there just isn’t anything under that 2500ish mark that doesn’t come in at 35+ pounds.
yeah I remember my DREAM bike back then cost $1500... it had Ultegra...
You may be interested to learn about quantitative easing?
Love this video. I view cycling as a low impact good cardio excerise that I enjoy and help me get back into shape. I couldn't afford recommendations of shops/people. Some clothes and shoe combinations were more than I wanted to pay for the bike. A couple months later, I ignored the noise, wore a shirt that's a little tight, picked up a used Giant Defy 3 w/alu frame for around $300 with Sora groupset (my budget), watched some CZcams on bike maintence, replaced the tires, lubed the chain, adjusted brakes slightly and just began riding 3-10 miles when I can. The bike is way faster than my Walmart MTB and just a blast for me to ride. To all the snobs / haters, I will just enjoy the ride and not worry about it. Hoping to start riding 15-20 miles when the weather gets better!
Exactly right. The top spec S-Works Tarmac here is over 20k. People can barely afford groceries anymore. It's two fold now , people are hanging on to their bikes now and not upgrading, and whatever bikes are for sale on the second hand market are bloody expensive. Entry level now doesn't exist..
Living in a small apartment, I wanted a tri-fold Brompton but could not find one I could afford, so I bought a clone and when I brought it into a local shop that specializes in Bromptons to check out, I mentioned it was a clone and everyone in the shop turned to look at me! When I picked it up the next day the Brompton specialist admitted it was a good sturdy copy.
Can you provide the name of this clone, along with whatever information might be pertinent?
@@robertcrawford718 Other brands are "3Sixty" big in China plus "Mints" & "Pikes" . They all pretty much resemble the Brompton (think it's just one factory producing) difference is the name print on bike.
Also 3Sixty is big in China, liaoge seems to be making wave by adding its own improvements to the basic design.
In Europe, Decathlon is slowly but surely taking over. Fantastic products, their top-of-the-line is up there with the most expensive, respected, brands. Same goes for their new line of road bikes.
No they’re not. They’re great price value wise but the more expensive stuff is still better. If that’s necessary is a personal choice.
@@hankschrader2353 Fair enough. I haven't reached the limits (the amount and way I ride) of Decathlon products so far. Better put, hopefully.
Recently bought some merino trekking gear, works flawlessly (for me) for third the price of the "best" brands.
Canyon is the killer. With jobrad canyon made a great deal. The only thing is that around the 2k to 5k market is a lot of market saturation going on. And the demand is not that big anymore. Still a lot of people around that will buy a 20k euro bike with mechanical gears vs to a Ducati race bike, which maybe is only in my eyes quite black humoristic. But i know also people personally who 100,% believes that a new specialized tarmac is worth 8k and a bargain if the original price was 12k euro. Keep the economy going. I believe in 2 years we will see the 30k / usd bike price breaking and people will go nuts to have it
I'm truly curious to get my hands on one. Every review I've seen says they can punch above their weight a little.
@dobbscycleworks hi, I own one (Van Rysel NCR Rival Etap). It is a very nice bike. I tried very expensive ones (Sworks venge, look 796) back in my days when I was racing (5 years ago). And I was pleasantly surprised with handling and stiffness of the decathlon. I dont think there is much differences with very high end products right now. I mean, except if you are looking for a replica, there's no sensible reason to go for more than 3k today. The only concern about decathlon is the customer support and the quality of assembly. When I received mine I had to readjust derailleurs and cut back hydraulic wires because it was way too long. I talk directly to the designers of the company and they agreed on this. They even proposed me a job 😂
COULD NOT LIKE THIS HARDER!
I have a young family and simply cannot justify upgrading my 10 year old bike. When I took it to a new bike shop (recently moved) for a tune up they told me there was no point maintaining it because it was so old, i just wanted to be able to change gears smoothly and they wanted to buy a new bike.
This is brilliant and I will immediately be looking up Neo Pro and seeing if I can get their gear over in Australia.
You should be able to get NeoPro stuff very easily: they are based in Brisbane! As to having a 10 year old bike, my newest is a 13 year old custom steel Tommasini that I was measured for in Tuscany. Nobody on a mass-produced carbon bike from China will look down on that.
This is the first video of yours that i have seen, and it earned my sub. Please keep this going. You are honest and knowledgeable, and you seem to be a caring individual. Thank you.
I see the opposite problem. Many of the local shops where I live only carry the lowest end builds. Anything above 3K is a non returnable special order item. There are no more demo rides so the best you can do is pedal a low end bike around the parking lot just as a fit check. If you order a direct to consumer bike, you have to get lucky that it fits or fight to get it returned.
yeah direct to consumer can be a very very good option, but I think it may be something better suited to people who do have at least a little experience in cycling already. especially if you do your own repairs? then you'd be golden.
Great video - the section you did on local bike shops carrying primarily high-end bikes turned me off from the sport from the longest time. If the barrier to entry was a several thousand dollar bike, plus all of the other necessary kit (shoes, pedals, helmet, gloves, pump, spare tubes, etc.), I figured I was priced out of the sport before I ever began. But now that I've got a bike and gotten into the sport, I just think bike manufacturers and local bike shops are having an identity crisis of who they want to cater to. Frankly, it's why I bought my bike at REI rather than a dedicated bike shop... they have bikes priced for the layperson rider like myself.
Exactly. GCN did a good video on “the bike you want v’s the bike you need.” I’d love to to restore a late 80s Colnago or even build a titanium frame and I could do it for less than 3 grand and the frame would be less temperamental than a high dollar carbon frame. In fact last year I bought a steel gravel bike (Kona Rove DL) and love it. Comfortable, responsive, I even signed up for an organized century to raise money and had a great time. Don’t get me wrong I love Ferraris but that doesn’t mean (even if I had the $$$$$$$$$$$) it would be a good choice for my lifestyle.
Smart man. The secondhand market has a lot of gems. Just bought a titanium bike with Ultegra components & Mavic wheels for $1,200
Used market most definitely where it's at. Crazy bargains out there if you're patient, Facebook good in the UK.
@@s.j.5850
Thank you! I’m not into fast group rides or racing so gives me a lot of flexibility.
@@papalegba6796
Thank you! 😊
The bike industry has been ruined by the same people who ruined car buying, FINANCING , manufacturers realized that if you can purchase a bike for $ 3900.00 intermediate level cash or $9000.00 for the latest and the greatest for $250.00 a month for 36 months , people always choose the latter! Great video !
I am glad I found this video today. I appreciate your point of view.
I cant wait to see the high end bubble burst, they are doing us so dirty its insane
hopefully enough where top spec stuff starts going real real cheap lol
it wont be long, people have less money now than ever
I don't understand this. The prices are high because people are willing to pay high prices. So you should blame those people (if you want to blame someone.)
sure if you are new in the sport, this would make sense. cause then you wouldn't know what lead up to this point, and how rampant the prizes have gotten. do you know what the retail price of the S-works SL4 was just 10 years ago?@@gibbogle
Great refreshing video. I chased the TOTL bikes/parts for the 12 years of racing. Now that I'm 60 I sold my road, cross and track bikes, kept the mtb and bought a used SL4 Tarmac w/full DuraAce. Honestly a bike 99% of riders will never out grow.
Oh, and don't get me started on kits....
You nailed every point.
I totally agree with your video. I just had my local shop help me pick out and order some parts to do my own custom build. Everyone there was so friendly and I felt welcomed. I plan to go back there for repairs and advice in the future, so glad I went that direction instead of just buying from canyon.
Thank you for saying what I and most others have been thinking for quite some time. I started riding in the late 80's in Dallas and the changes in the bike industry over the decades is something I thought I would never see. I go into a local shop to buy some tubes and I don't see a bike on the floor for less than $8000......of course you can find some cheaper ones stored over in a warehouse that can only be seen online. Same thing with all the shoes, clothes etc. I just shake my head and wonder what these companies are thinking. Very few people have the money these days and it's going to lead to the collapse of the industry.
Great rant! I’m seeing community bike shops selling used gear, affordable used bikes, etc leap past the specialized and trek shops here in Oregon for what that’s worth. The LBS’s I’m seeing make it have adopted a whole e-bike thing: sales, maintenance, rentals. The community shops aren’t just living on sales - behind the curtain is always a dedicated board with experienced public-sector grant and fundraising chops.
yeah that is definitely driving sales hard. the trails out here are full of people on e-bikes now
If only there was a bike brand that actually explained why their bike is good! No BS, no marketing, no heritage, just engineering and value. How hard can that be?
I like your videos, they bring a refreshing common sense and honesty to the cycling industry, which most folks have probably thought about but were reluctant to say.
The covid pandemic aside, it's incredible to see so many industry giants going to the wall with so many years of ridiculously expensive Bicycles at all levels of performance. Sure, make hay while the sun shines, but a focus on short term profit and gouging eventually leads to a backlash.
covid was a plandemic not a pandemic
Im not that familiar with what happened in the industry. Lots of industries raised prices, or focused on high end products due to high demand and short supply. How did these companies differ?
@@nunyabidness3075 "and gouging eventually leads to a backlash." Does it matter if they differ or not?
Everybody's doing it doesn't feel like a good reason.
bingo.
@@nunyabidness3075they dropped their ability to pivot towards affordability when the "sun stopped shining" and now their business model isnt competetive
14:06 100% agree! I consider any potential cost difference at my LBS vs online as a small investment in local cycling advocacy, as it almost always starts at a good LBS. A strong LBS usually is a good indicator of a healthy cycling community. Supporting that by simply shopping there for the things I need, just makes sense!
"free repair" That is funny, changed all wires, one shifter, and some other things. The cost was around 1000 euro, which was incidentally the same as I bought the bike for on a black friday sale a few years earlier.
I agree with you on so many things in the video. Thanks for sharing!
The truth is that no one needs a 2500 or up bike. What you need is reliable parts and a good fit, weight, 1 kg up or down does not makes any diference for any of us.
Great summary of what is wrong with the bike industry, just hope the big companies take notiice and other guys see the possible openings for mid price raceworthy bikes in the market. I started racing in the 1960's on a £20 bike (average weeks wage) exactly as the pros and 'bespoke'.! Keep banging the drum . Remember it's more about the man than the bike. Colin Burgess UK
Great video, very on point. The industry is pricing itself out of business. They want to sell more lower the prices or close up shop, bottom line. Sad it is with many other sectors too. Shop service in many areas is declining as well, only want to sell new stuff, old stock is hard to find to refurbish high quality older bikes. Have a 1995 trek 5000 with a 105 group. It was stellar for many years, once shops started putting new components, mixmatched with old, performance decline began. Bikes are meant to be simple modes of transportation. Most do not need disc brakes on the road, electronic shifting, etc. Service, simplify and streamline the industry as a whole
Man this video is so much more important than just the bike industry, since your rationale is applicable to almost every thing where a group interest applies, or where information is dispensed along with products... the loss of high street outlets is the loss of expertise, knowledge, encouragement, and most of all, specialist nondread and butter requirements.
Catering for self confessed amateurs is critical. I work in the photography industry, so the loss of source specialist knowledge and encouragement is a terrible loss.
Amazon has devastated many enthusiast support, without the industry doing it to themselves as you described.
What a brilliant analysis of what was the resurgence of a once lost cycle industry.
What an absolutely awesome and informative video.....thank you!
at 9:38 you literally describe me. I ride an aluminum bike with mechanical groupset and economical gear from a famous french shop
When I was in high school, early 1980s, I bought a $200 bicycle called the Windsor International, black and gold. With that touring bike I rode with AYH (American Youth Hostels) from the GW Bridge (New York) to Montreal, Canada. It took just over two weeks. One of the highlights of my life. And the bike held up great. Even today, I see no need for a higher quality bike than that one, unless of course you're a professional racer.
AYH in lower Manhattan - the good old days!
@@s.j.5850 Yes, I remember it well. Took three of those week (or two, or three week) trips in total.
... among the greatest times of my life.
Thank you for your video! It put in words the feelings that I have into words.
Great video man. I just bought my first gravel bike from a local place in MA, “Landry’s Bicycles.” They didn’t try to talk me into something I didn’t need, rather something that would be better suited to how and where I ride. So that was awesome. I see these trends in almost every industry, where if you are buying the “cheapest” of whatever product, you’re a “beginner,” where if you want to show you “ride” or “surf” or “catch”, you “NEED” the “PRO” or “ELITE” model. And with influencers who’s sole mission is to huck products to make a commission, and advertisers doing all they can to widen the gap between rich and poor, I think people are just slowly starting to not be able to afford even the “beginner” stuff. Not sure what the answer is other than just buy whatever you like and try to not fall for all the marketing and that just because something is more expensive, doesn’t always mean it is better.
Anyway, thanks for articulating things so nicely in the vid!
Cycling is suppose to be simple and aacessible. The industry has alienated people who still believe that.
Whichever brand is bold enough to make a rim-brake carbon frame that easily builds to
For real, hell even last time I weighed my 2013 Tarmac it was sub 17lb from all the changes I had made. If you made a new rim frame in the 850g range the entire hill climb community would probably lose their minds and crash the market for second hand 2010 Super Six EVO's lol
The reason that the industry wants to move away from rim brakes is that they think everybody wants carbon rims, and it is way easier to build carbon rims if they don't need to serve as a braking surface. Also, disc brakes are way better for most off-road riding with fat tires, and gravel bikes are super trendy right now.
I mostly ride a 2009 Jamis Aurora steel touring bike with canti brakes. I would like to see rim brakes stay relevant, because they're light, cheap, and effective enough for many riders, but that will only happen if riders ignore what the industry is trying to do.
100% agree with everything You said. Thanks for video. Greetings from Sarajevo.
My beef with it is super specialisation, when mountain bikes came in it was a breath of fresh air, they were super approachable to new riders, flat bars, powerful brakes, 18 gears, most of them way lower than typical "racers" of the time, small wheels for more flexible fitting, bosses for accessories racks, mudguards and bottles, fat tyres for crashing over kerbs, footpaths and trails, so no need to go on the road and mix it with aggressive drivers, It's bike that could do anything and even the unfit sofa surfer could buy one and cycle across Africa with afew accesories, or up the local disused mine track or just down to the shops the limiting factor was the rider. That has gone, that bike does not exist in my local bike superstore, everything is specialist, XC, downhill or gravel , or supper light weight drop bar carbon road racers with big person geometry, Brillant for what they do, but any "normal" buyer will not see something for them, unless they walk out with a dedicated shopper . Why?
The bike industry are out of touch they want you to have a different bike for every discipline, including shoppers and cargo so they can sell you multiple bikes, Who has room for that?
They need to wind the clock back about 10-20 years so you can buy a good, upgradable bike that will do 100% of what 90% of people want to do or have room for.
Thanks! My twin brother and I started in the sport at 6 raced for a majority of our lives. We both think the pricing is outrageous. Also, entry fees to local races too are insane!
6 months or years?
yeah thats another thing, they have gone bonkers in the last few years
When it becomes more about the equipment and attire than the sport itself it's time to take a stand an tell them "Nope, Nada, Not Gonna Happen"
I agree w/your points 100%.Thanks for posting.
you speak the truth brother. you made alot of good points that i agree with. im in houston about to get my first gravel bike.
Right on! Noticed in your graphs the growing popularity of gravel bikes for just riding. Good choice. And Mountain bikes for off road singletrack, (but not the fanciest, danciest bikes), commuter's to get to work, recumbents for all sorts of reasons (even though OUTLAWED by powers that be for racing since the '20's I believe), velomobiles, touring bikes to really GO somewhere and live aboard, and even e-bikes...try 'em all.
... commuters* (plural, same as "recumbents", no apostrophe)
I really like my local Trek shop. They didn't push the most high end bike on me, I get free tune ups for life, they've done some warranty work no questions asked and they replaced my helmet for free after a bad crash. I know the manager and the mechanic and it feels very much like a local bike shop and a community.
Not only the question: "Who is this for", but also normal pricing. They stopped selling bare top-of-line framesets, because if you use that as starting price and add all the components and put it together you come to half the price of the listed top model with EXACTLY the same components.... Bike industry has become too greedy... I have not bought a new bike now for the last 10 years and I am not doing it again if it is not needed. Electronic shifting...more then 11 speed.... 10cm aero rims....we don't need it, just train a bit more and use the not spend money on nice bike trips.
Appreciate the perspective and totally agree
I am from Colorado and have been mountain biking for 35 years. Colorado culture has always been nasty t-shirt, cargo shorts, and low top hiking boots. Grunge, in a word. It was about doing it, the skill. I recently moved to Florida and while visiting Gainesville, the equivalent of Boulder, I came across a group ride . The bikes however blew me away. $5k, $6k yeti full suspension bikes. High end carbon specialized and trek. The cars all had thousands dollar bike racks and the people were completely armored up with fancy kit everywhere. This is Florida...no mountains! Flat! Nothing you would need a full suspension bike for. I rode without a helmet on a leafy path thru the forest and the shame I received was as if I raped a cat. Definitely a snobby, rich culture here.
Duuuude! What a great rant!! Who cares if it was NyQuil induced, the points were well made and on target. I thought it frustrating recently to be hunting for a pair of decent FITTING road shoes for under $200! (Don’t get me started!). Great stuff!
Great channel. Agree with you assessment. BTW been wearing NeoPro all this year. Top stuff without the BS price tag.
I agree, a huge part of the problem is that cycling is now about racing and fitness. I'm in the market of a new bicycle and I dont want to go into racing but the problem where I am the local cycling shop is either non-existent or they only deal in high end racing bicycles. There is 1 local cycling shop where I am, and they take in used bicycles recondition them and sell them at huge discounts they also teamed up with the local university to supply even more discounted bicycles than that for students. All I personally want is just a solid bicycle that works and the only options for me is that 1 local bicycle shop for 2nd hand bicycles or the french brand decathlon thats very popular here in Europe. Most bicycles I see are decathlon bicycles, because they are quality and very affordable but the most affordable ones only come with rim brakes and you cant upgrade it at a later date for discs, what these big brands need to do is start just making bicycles again that are affordable with upgradability in mind. Because at their rate they're literally gonna kill the entire industry for trying to push people to fork out a lot of money for their weekly casual group ride.
The offerings for "bicycles as transport" or "bicycles for the masses" are not great at all and if the big capitalist companies want people to hand them money they need to make those kinds of bikes as well.
I agree with every comment. Two years ago I bought a SL 6 with a 105 mechanical group set. The limit is definitely my training and physique rather than dropping an extra $10k on a high end bike. Most do not need more bike than this. Only those who have a chance at the podium really should spend more money unless of course you have extra money to spend. The problem is the industry decided to eliminate a reasonable priced group set which has priced many from entering the sport.
yeah my Tarmac SL2 with 105 was $2200 brand new. that just doesn't exist anymore. I bought it for $600 off craigslist from a guy who had never even removed the protective stickers on the derailleurs lol
100% agree. The major brands use the weekend warriors wallets to fit the RnD bill and that is probably bulk of the cost of developing a new frame..... and also the marketing fee. I wouldnt be surprised if a cost breakdown of a new bike looked something like this - RnD 50% of total (ot) / Marketing - 30% ot / materials -10% ot / logistics - 10% ot.
A $15k bike is $2k of bike and $13k of hype.
Well said, thanks for the video.
All very well said. Very refreshing!
I started riding in 1983 when I was 12. I have seen so many changes in technology in road bikes since I bought my first Raleigh Olympian steel road bike. My desire to go faster and faster over that 40 years had me throwing lots of money at minimal gains. Fortunately, I had a limit, and the bike industry not only pushed way past it, they totally turned me off.
I live in Raleigh, NC and most experiences at local bike shops is not that pleasant. I own a few mountain bikes and a gravel bike and most shops in my area are for non-mountain bikes which does make sense in this area. On the other hand I love to go the shops in the western part of NC (Pisgah/Brevard area south of Asheville). The shops there are MTB-centric so they have all kinds of bikes, parts and service. They even have hang out (bars) areas and all encourage you to start your ride into the forest from their shop. The vibe at these shops is so positive.
Go see Jason if he still owns Carolina Fatz bike shop on Brevard Rd in Asheville. Best guy to put you on the right bike based on budget, and he treats all as if they purchased a $10k bike! I use to live there but now back in Greensboro.
Destination shops like The Hub in Brevard are great but are very different from your local shops with respect to customer base. Most shops can’t locate right next to legendary trail networks and don’t have people from all over the world traveling to their area to ride.
try Oak City Cycling project this might be the type of shop you would like, good guys:)
@@hutchy_4297 I do like Oak City now as I've stopped in there a few times since it's close to downtown. Last month I had to push my eMTB from Fayetteville St to their shop for air in the front tire. During the pandemic one of their workers got mad at me for hanging out in the parking lot checking out some of the gravel bikes. That put a bad taste in my mouth and it took me another 3 years to even go back there. Place seems way different now. But yes, I too recommend Oak City.
@@setransou I get that but some local shops will tell you it will take a week to replace a shifter cable. I get they are busy but I've never been told that at any of the shops in WNC. The good thing is that I'm a better mechanic because of this. !!
The bicycle has been 2 wheels, a frame, pedals and a chain for almost a 150 years, and there ain't nothing a big bike company can do to make me, a 60 year old man, go much faster. Buy an inexpensive bike with 2 wheels, a frame, some pedals and a chain and enjoy yourself.
Not to mention these expensive road bikes arent very versatile. No cruising around the grass of a local park in a pinch, no taking a curb and a few bumps in the city. No taking it for a lil coffee cause you cant stop worrying it'll be stolen.
My last two bikes have been from online, a yuba and a canyon. I tried the lBS but honestly it felt a little overwhelming (specilized and trek). There was just so much product and posters and sale tags that I couldn't get a handle on which way to go. I know that might sound ridiculous, but it felt like going to a car dealership.
Not gonna lie... I'm still considering a Canyon and probably will get one at some point. I don't think that direct to consumer is a bad thing at all or is going away but the rest of the chain might need to start catching up.
Interesting video. Well thought out, written and narrated. Some thoughts . . . here in Florida, E bikes seem to be a juggernaut and will soon be outnumbering mechanical bikes which I think effects sales at bike shops that only sell mechanical bikes. Another reason, at least for me, is LBSs very often do not have the parts I need to maintain my bikes. I can find everything I need on the interwebs which reduces the number of times I am actually in my LBS. Finally, I am the guy who rides aluminum (CAAD 12, 9, X and 800), installed an upgraded mechanical group-sets, bought fairly pricey sets of aluminum wheels, wear relatively inexpensive kit (quality varies) and ride along quite happily. Not the coolest or the fastest, and although I could afford a very expensive bike, it seems, for me at least, to be an unnecessary waste of money. In fact, I will probably never buy another bike, as I am an, ahem, senior (as in old) rider. I plan to maintain the bikes I own until I ride off this mortal coil into the final sunset. My advice to younger riders, whether you buy expensive or inexpensive, do your own maintenance. It can be fun, and although tools can add to the cost, in the long run, it helps to keep the cost of a fairly expensive sport down. Free advice and worth every penny.
Riding a bike is now indistinguishible from a windows subscription
those are all fantastic bikes worthy of a long life and care.
Ironic that e-bikes are taking over in Florida, much of which is so flat that it is not clear what the advantage of the electric drivetrain even is. E-bikes can be of some use if you encounter severe uphill sections which you find troublesome, but otherwise they are a lot heavier than traditional bikes, more expensive, harder to transport, and battery replacement when that lithium cell goes bad is a potential adventure depending on where it is placed and how generic a part it is.
Everything you said is true. The easy explanation would be that us oldsters in Florida are the ones who are buying e-bikes, but I see a lot of young and middle-aged people riding them as well. I originally thought that people with physical limitations brought on by age or infirmity would be the primary users, but I see so many (maybe 35% of the bikes I see on a typical ride), being ridden by people of all ages, that I don't think that can be the case. Anyway, there are still a lot of us mechanical bike clingers here, but the increase has been very noticeable. Regards.
@@joebikeguy6669 Fl is fire hot so anything to arrive fresher at destination people are gonna jump on
I didn’t know about neo pro, thanks for the recommendation. I just placed an order with them
A good bike, a decent kit and an open road...
Poetic!
Agreed, probikekit was the bomb back in the day.
one time they were a day late sending an order to me, which means it still arrived in like 4 days, and they included a hand written apology, a bottle, and a $25 gift card.... like.... just phenomenal. They didn't have to go above and beyond like that! But they did, because they got it.
Excellent video. The gap between high-end and entry level was very, very well articulated, and not just because I agree with most of what you said. I think you hit the nail on the head. Well done!
thank you so much!
Thank you for this rant. You have said it all.
Great job!
😊
As an outsider looking in, this video is convincing me not to get into cycling. I recently bought a 300€ city bike from a mainstream sports shop. It's a pretty slow bike, but it's so practical for commuting around the city. The gearshift is surprisingly useful. The breaks break. I use the rack frequently. What more could you want? More expensive bikes seem to have fewer convenient features for commuting. And I think you guys are missing the point. Enjoy the ride. Save money on bus tickets. Save time during rush hour. A 300€ bike pays for itself in bus tickets. You won't die if you use a steel frame with a bottom of the barrel Shimano shifter and generic breaks.
I get what you’re saying, but I’m assuming you’ve never had like an ultegra groupset on a bike or something like that. I assure you, it’s much more reliable, consistently works for a much longer period of time, it doesn’t lose the pull of the brakes as fast and need a Tune. The derailer shifts crisply for a year or two, without even needing to touch it.
It makes cycling easier and more fun… in my opinion, and I promise you I’m not being a snob.
But if you got a fast, light bike with an ultegra group set, you’d understand what I was saying. It makes a difference. And I’m all for cheap beater bikes that you can just commute with and not worry about getting stolen. But there’s something about a really nice, light, fast bike that makes you wanna ride.
I think those bikes should be made in on the market new for much more affordable prices. People would get in a cycling a lot more, and then they’d move up to the higher priced models.
Buying fast bikes and not going broke. I know that’s simplistic, but it’s the truth.
They should find a way to make it happen.
@@lylewalker5681 Yeah I get that. But bike theft is so high in my city. I purposefully bought a baby blue woman's bike as cheaply as possible. I like that I can always buy brake pads, air chambers and miscellaneous parts for just a few euros. I tried a 1000€ gravel bike from Decathlon for 5 minutes and it was so fast and with minimal effort. However, the owner said that he wouldn't dare to park it in the street. So it's utterly useless for commuting. I am sorry. There's always the option to buy old and ugly road bike frames. And I see quite a few of those in the streets. I call them Frankenstein bikes. That's probably the next step forward.
Can't the industry mass produce cheap bike frames and sell them to enthusiasts? Scratch that. Decathlon sells dope gravel bikes for around 1000€.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q I get what you’re saying. But I live in a city with a very bad drug problem with extremely high theft rates, and I have a flashy/expensive looking bike. And I’ve managed to keep it from being stolen for years.
You can really lower your risk with some easy risk management decisions, and it’s not very complicated. Very simple stuff, like not leaving it locked up for more than two hours, definitely not leaving it locked up overnight, multiple locks, a lot of other things.
Another one is having SPD pedals. Not for everybody, but bike thieves look at a bike with SPD pedals, and probably a lot of them pass. Because it’s hard or impossible for them to ride off once they defeat the lock.
I still worry about it, obviously. But a lot of times, unfortunately, bike theft is a choice that people make. If that makes sense.
Not to victim blame, but yeah. If you lock your bike up in a high traffic area with a cable lock and walk away from it for six hours, you are making a choice.
@@lylewalker5681 I have a U lock with an extra cable. It's the bare minimum. You can't do much more than that unfortunately. I am still weighing the pros and cons in my head. My cheap bike has strong utility. I am getting a fair bit of exercise out of it. And my anxiety levels parking that bike outside for 6 hours are low. Life has taught me that getting more luxurious furniture, cars, appliances, electronics, kitchens etc... is just not worth it. The most basic stuff goes a really long way.
I’m one of those guys who worked hard and can afford ANY bike I want. I walked down the street with my gf and bought the only S-Works SL8 Tarmac for sale in Australia. My gf was like ‘but you will hate it? It’s heavy AF with those silly mountain bike brakes..’
I agreed with her but bought it anyway. It fell over at home and cracked the top tube with just a few hours riding in it 😂.
It really is the WORST tarmac sworks ever and I can say it because I’ve ridden/owned all Tarmac versions since 2004.
I am thinking of getting a rim brake tarmac, in your opinion between the sworks sl4, sl5 and sl6 which is better or are they all pretty similar
@@Phil-dx8rw I'd go SL5 or 6 personally, the 4 is not bad at all but had a few recall issues and something about the 5 just calls to me. Can't explain it beyond that but hey sometimes that's all you need! lol SL6 prices can still be a little high but you can find SL5 and 4 frames for CHEAP
The other issue that I feel like most people ignore is that the future of cycling is in general transport and not sport riding. The overwhelming majority of purchasers want simple Dutch-style cruisers, but every company seems to only be focusing on crazy high-end road bikes. That's clearly not sustainable - especially now that road cycling is insanely dangerous in most areas because of the size, speed, and increased number of cars on the road.
Amen to this! I started a channel of my own recently because I want to encourage 40+ people like me to get into cycling and give themselves a fit, healthy, happy life in "The Second Half". I think cycling is the easiest way to do that... but you're 100% right: the bikes are crazy expensive! And when it's a husband and wife it 2x the cost. I rode my last mtb for about 10 years until some dude with Turrets told me I was riding a "museum piece". Jeez. And then I bought a new bike. 🙄 Great video.. I may clip a tiny bit of your rant for an upcoming video. Subscribed!
Absolutely! go for it, always happy to meet other folks making bike content as well so I will sub to yours also!