Will TREK survive TOTAL CHAOS in the global BICYCLE MARKETS? If they listen to me, you betcha hey!
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
- I have some strong opinions and plenty to say about yesterday's industry bombshell TREK MEMO LEAK to Bicycle Retailer and Industry News - www.bicycleretailer.com/indus...
It really sucks for the people directly affected, but it might be just what the world needs right now. Well, my world at least. We shall see!
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Golf said "I'm expensive, Cycling responded "Hold my CamelBak".
I am a novice & dropped about 3 grand last year. It is cheaper to rebuild vintage bikes than vintage cars though. So there's that.
@@sbook001 less is more.. they say a fool and his money are easily parted, same holds for bikes.. if you live in any kind of big sh!tty in the US, you're way better off with an old beater 18 speed, just because most parts aren't compatible with modern bikes and you can cheap out on your lock..)/*
3K?!? Yikes! I've never dropped that much on a motor vehicle..)/*
@@andretokayuk8100 I overdid it a little, I also bought a new carrier (and hitch) for the car, new bike for the wife, and a few upgrades and accessories. I'll probably keep it well under a grand this year. I did already buy a used Giant Anyroad though last month... it isn't going to need much in the way of parts accessories or updates. The biggest Bike thing was a 1x12 Sram NX upgrade on my old 3x9 Trek hybrid. I Didn't need it, but picked the groupset up on sale & enjoyed tinkering with it.
Theres all sorts of barely used 'old junk' out there. Its amazing and unbelievable what some people throw away! Its dirt cheap or even free, gathering dust, taking up space in someone's garage, basement or storage. Our challenge is to find it. Its a big world with lots of storage space. Gotta think outside the box.
I had a bike shop customer gift me my childhood unobtanium dream bike from the '80s. Its built by one of the masters of the trade who has trained and mentored many of the modern frame builders today. He walked into my shop and said "here its yours". I took him for drinks at the local dive bar, his friend walks in and covers our tab!
@@rollinrat4850 Not an uncommon story.
I got a Scwinn Suburban and an mid '80 tri bike that way and love them
If the bike manufacturers want to survive then they need to invest in bicycle infrastructure in cities. A wise sales man once said, "Never sell a product, generate demand."
The Netherlands is the only country I see that's made riding a bicycle a viable choice of transportation. The USA has a few cities that have made token efforts. The problem is bicycle riders don't contribute for the infrastructure the way auto drivers contribute through fuel taxes, tolls and other means of getting the infrastructure users to foot the bill.
This is 100% the problem and the solution.
Take a look at bicycle thefts in Amsterdam. Unless you ride a junker, it will get stolen if you park it outside. @@77gmcnut
@@77gmcnut the reason all those taxes are needed is because automobiles require more infrastructure and destroy said infrastructure at a higher rate. gas taxes foots a small part of that bill...your federal income tax is what pays the highest percentage of "bills" for the road.
@@77gmcnutI want to note very earnestly that people who live in sparse housing, e.g. suburbs, are a net drain on infrastructure. They will never generate enough tax revenue in the current schemes to offset the cost of maintaining their road infrastructure.
The only way to even come close in many areas would require taxing single family homes at five to ten times the sqft rate of dense housing.
Philosophy Tube has partnered with Not Just Bikes and a few others to produce a series of videos on the problems of cities and the first one is definitely worth it and I'm looking forward to the remaining two planned.
If CZcams offers a "Best Monologue for Real S**t" category; you won it hands down. Well said.
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I love cycling in all forms. I love racing on carbon fiber spaceships, commuting, cruising, and touring on classic steel bikes, and so on. I love it all. I think the key is make sure that racing and race culture doesn't dominate the bike industry.
Right-size the bicycle merchandise prices, while you're at it, Trek.
No kidding. I recall spending over $700 in 1988 for a trek. That was over 35 years ago. I loved the bike, but at the age of 15, i sure did save a long time to buy that being a busboy at a chinese restaurant. I can only imagine what they charge nowadays on the low end.
I found a new-old stock 2019 Domane SL6 with rim brakes online back in Sept. I took a long time to find the exact bike I wanted (no discs) and it paid off. Especially considering it was only $1300 (The new version is $4700). Full Ultegra, nice wheels, rim brakes. The perfect ride to replace my 2006 2200.
@@GNMi79I am shocked. With inflation I would have guessed twice that minimum. $700 is still not pocket change, but walmart bikes sell for over half that now. But I imagine your guess about them being constructed of fine Chineseium is prolly true.
I stopped by the Trek store in Porkland Whoregone twice.. once to see what they did to the bike gallery.. the second because I had to have a light and a lock..
yeah.. never went back after that rip-off.. 80 bucks for 2 cubes that probably cost a buck to make.. I'll stick to snagging old Treks off craigslist..)/* They usually have a smattering of my favorite flavor of components X)/*
@@ColorcrayonsIn 1977 I bought a Raliegh Professional race bike for $600. One step below their team race rig.
All Campagnolo and silk tubular tires. Handmade by the masters in England.
I was 16 years old, saved up my paper route money for 2 years I rode bikes everywhere. Everybody thought I was nuts except my dad, who said "You earned it, its your money"
Back then, $600 was enough for a pretty decent car. My girlfriend left me for a guy with a Camaro. I met another girl, built a bike for her and never looked back. I still ride lots to this day. Ill ride hard until I die if I have my way.
After I rode the Raleigh into the ground and wore everything out, In 1985 I bought a Campy equipped Trek this time with not as nice wheels for $900, frame handmade in the US.
The larger bike industry is awfully greedy and their QC literally sucks. Im a retired mechanical inspector. Corporate greed, corrupt governments and inflation are mostly at fault here.
I wrench in a shop for fun in my retirement. I truly love bicycles and my work. This industry makes me ashamed, but 'my government?....so much more.
Nobody's fooling me.
Great recap of history. I volunteer at a local bike co-op that builds up practical bikes, mostly out of donated '80s-'00s MTBs and hybrids, go figure. I went into another local bike shop yesterday, and I immediately felt like I didn't belong in there at all. I felt like both my bike and my clothes we're too old and out of place compared to the new gravel bikes and appropriately dressed customers. I commute 8 miles to work everyday, I own ten bikes- how is it possible that I of all people feel alienated by a bike shop?? I can't even imagine how a customer who doesn't know anything about bikes feels.
I went to Interbike the last two years of the show and walked around wondering who the hell even buys all that shit
I feel you. I have a relatively modern hardtail. 2015 aluminum frame, sram nx (most modern thing on it), Rochshox XC28 fork. I had an injury a few years ago and bought a 26" steel/cromoly random 90's bike, exactly like the one I was gifted when I was 14 (hand-me down). Added a 2 stroke engine on it, since I couldn't pedal or use my knees for more than 10 seconds. Had some of the best fun of my life. Came to know a few mechanics and became one in the proccess. It has 22mm suspension forks, 22mm seattubes, v-brakes, all that old stuff, also had some of the best laughs while hanging out and talking to these people, hell, even lost my bias against mopeds (they're cheap fun).
Nowadays that I'm back pedaling, I only take my bikes to the same people who used to take care of my motorized bike (although nowadays there are few things I won't do, like trueing a wheel). Can't stand to think that one of these carbon fiber enthusiasts would look at my old 90's heavy steel PoS and be like "I won't service it". And to be honest, I have gotten much more fair prices and better service.
Gravel bikes would make a good commuter bicycle. They have drop bars allowing faster riding so you can ride faster and thus reduce the speed discrepancy between the riders and the cars approaching from behind. They can fit tires wider then 28mm and can still have room for fenders and they have mounts for fenders and rack(s).
The only problem with gravel bikes is they are expensive compared to a basic $500 hybrid.
I will say my local shop is pretty user friendly to all levels. He has been in business for over 50 years has everything from an entry level hybrid to a pro racing grade carbon fiber road bike. He Wont sell you anything you dont need and gives honest friendly advice.
Disclaimer: The owner is a relative, but I have heard the same thing from everyone I ever talked to that has dealt with him. Good people! We need more of that around.
The Dutch make bicycles for people not cyclists. If you want to get from a to b comfortably on two wheels look at how they do it.
12 minutes of solid, interesting content. That's rare on CZcams. Thank you.
I think the most powerful message was saved for the end where you offered a stand to laid off bike industry folks in your community. I know it's not much, but I'm sure it would mean the world to anyone who could use the opportunity.
seriously?
I work part-time in a small shop that just happens to sell Trek and a few other brands. Comfort and sport hybrids are our bread and butter. I love the idea of an advertising campaign showing real people on practical bikes doing practical things.
Yup. Advertising and R&D is focused on riders who identify as competitive riders or ultra-fit mountain bikers. Leaves me, a 72 year old retiree, and so many other casual recreational cyclists out of the loop.
I was a bike mechanic for about 10 years in the early 2000's and was talking to my brother in law about how wild all the parts are now. There's a ton of hub spacings, axle sizes, hanger mounts, bb specs, and I guess a few wheel sizes.
People went mad with options, it almost made parts proprietary.
🎯
The only standard in the bike industry is that there is no standard. Engineering, quality and even human safety are overpriced inconveniences.
Im retired from high reliability, highest quality on the planet type manufacturing . We were 'overpriced' for a good reason, human life demanded it.
Want a nice bike, buy barely used nice OLD bikes. You just gotta look. Theyre out there.
All but one of my bikes are 18- 45 years old.
DIY. Best value going!
100%.
That's part of the evolution of technology, to get that extra couple percent of performance, you have to use you're own IP and against the norm.
@@ScotBreithaupt Bicycles once were simple, reliable machines. Mine still are and I can ride for several days at a time if so motivated at 62 years young. My favorite and most ridden bike is a fixed gear cyclocross rig.
All my bikes very very rarely break down or leave me stranded. In over 50 years, Ive made that 'call of shame' twice, both due to lack of daylight. Im a pro mechanic. Modern bikes ARE my job security. Its ironic, Warranties and recalls are a constant source of 'job security!!
Customers bring modern overpriced, overly complex, cheap quakity bikes into our shop looking for our expertise....... When they complain about prices I say, "look elsewhere or do what I do.... DIY!"
When I raced my bikes were simple, if expensive. I rode race bikes literally everywhere, even offroad a decade before MTBs existed. Underbiking rules! Its THE RIDER, not the freakin bike. Nobody can buy fitness and or skills besides dopers and E bikers! 🤣
Reliability and transportation is ALL the vast majority of consumers 'need'....... That need?.......to get somewhere.
Anything else is marketing BS,
aka propaganda or brainwashing. A means to separate consumers from hard earned money.
Very few consumers will ever race.
The idea that we 'need' to spend thousands to save a few measly watts when we're 'exercising' is laughable. Through long experience, I just know better than marketing BSers. Bicycles are my lifelong lifestyle. Im never going to stop until Im unable.
I agree. Here in the UK we have a shop selling 2nd hand bikes and doing repairs/servicing. Their most popular sales are 'work bikes' - bikes you can ride to work and back, no frills, bells or whistles. Which usually means flat bars and wider tyres.
I thought bells are legally required in the UK?
Just what i was going to say. I've thought for years that bells were dorky kids stuff for the old lady down the street. I bought my first one about six months ago. and oh, yeah a horn with a rubber bulb just so the bikes sound different.
Witty dog. While bells, (if fitted) must be in working order, and a new bike is legally obliged to be sold with one, there is no legal requirement to have a bell on your bike in the UK.@@thomasullmann7447
While bells are a legal requirement to sell a new bike, they are not for second hand bikes.@@FLUSHER822
They should have bells tho....
I parked my (older) top of the line road bike at a coffee shop and a guy pulled up on a Yamaha MT-07. It dawned on me that the replacement price of my bike was about 150% that of the motorcycle. Hard to reconcile that. I certainly won't be buying a new bike any time in the near future.
I went into the Trek dealership looking to upgrade my Giant Anthem. They told me the cost of the new Remedy and Slash and I literally couldnt bring myself to pay that much. I went over to my motorcycle dealership and bought a brand new KLX300 DS, I found a used Beta Techno 250 trials for 800 as a bike to learn trials. I bought boots, a decent helmet, the whole kit. 1 new moto, 1 used moto, all the gear and still spent less than the Trek. After 20 years in the cycling industry I felt pushed out. Buying the moto's has been the best decision. Smiles for miles. Smiles for miles.
I have friends in the bike industry here in the UK. They are adamant this is a blip in the market and there is a need to create new genres to boost it. And..........they always justify the cost of bicycles compared to motorcycles, saying there development and manufacturing are significantly higher. I will never believe that for one moment.
I was at the Beverly Twilight Criterium in the beautiful neighborhood of Beverly on Chicago's south side. My buddy Tom introduced me to one of the pro mechanics. I listened to him and Tom talk, as Trek had just sent him to China to see the bicycle manufacturing process which they were now outsourcing. He was amazed at how efficient and cost-effective it was to produce their carbon frames in those factories. There was very little effort to building a carbon frame as compared to other more traditional frame materials. I think back to that conversation and seeing how in about 26 years since I bought a Trek postal frame (for what really wasn't all that expensive) to what these frames and bicycles costs now, and I just shake my head. They have tricked us into a mass production scheme where carbon frames are easily produced in Chinese factories into believing we are buying something very special. It's bad enough that you are paying over $3000 now for a 105 equipped low-level carbon bike, $5000 to $6000 for Ultegra if not more, and over $12,000 for the top bikes--all built in just a couple factories around the world anymore.
Very true, really ridiculous what Trek and all have done. Look at Colnago, it’s a shame really. What Trek did to LeMond was something I’ll never forget. LBS are part to blame as well.
So true! I'm a retired local racer. And I approve this video message. I'm currently only bicycling for fun and groceries now. No more for competition. And I'm rediscovering all the bike types and models that I disregarded as a racer only guy.😊
In Nebraska, where l live the average population hates and loathes people who use bikes as actual transportation. Omaha is absolutely designed to make commuting as difficult and dangerous for riders as possible. Seriously. A whole new mindset for a huge swaths of Americans is needed for your vision to become reality.
da braucht es als ersten rahmen die ein fahrergewicht von über 150 kg locker standhalten🤣
I've got 25 years as a mechanic, certified in all the mainstream brands "training", maintained a 100% S-tech completion rate since the program started, sram school, BBI, managed a dozen service depts. ,Several stores, and I've had enough, I walked away this year, I'm over it.
Managed a couple service depts, did BBI, and have been wrenching and service writing for 12 years, also walked away. Today actually, and from a Trek-owned store. SO over the corporate cycling world. Time to switch careers and keep cycling as a hobby and help friends out with their mechanicals.
I'm into what Soma, Surly, Microshift and Merry Sales are doing. Keep the old tech running and make modern versions of things that use sensible standards for the vast majority of consumers who just want to enjoy cycling in any capacity they see fit. All my bikes are either steel or aluminum, none of the cables go through the bearings and no components are controlled by batteries, motors or bluetooth.
@@chasemanley848It sounds like you need to return to a flip phone, too. I don't understand humans who don't like technical innovation. While everything has drawbacks, why would you settle for outdated technology when there are far more advanced options? Like, would you rather get significant surgery done in the conditions that civil war field doctors operated in or in the new age, cutting-edge, and sterile settings of today? It’ll be old school, and you might get sepsis and or lose a leg, but hey, at least you won't be operated on using modern technology.
@@ob1856not everything new is progress
I'm sure you are happy where you are at, but I was in a similar situation. I went out on my own with mobile and LOVE it. I am much happier, make much more, and don't deal with cranky customers anymore. It's a great way to change my situation while also utilizing my talents.
@@ob1856 To make another false analogy, "Go tune your carburated injection system vehicle and let me drive my computer controlled fuel injection system with variable valve technical marvel". Let's not stop at the bike. Let's sell performance enhacing drugs at the bike shop. Why rely on antiquated food technology to go faster?
The kind of bike or rather new frame set I purchased recently is a steel road bike frame, with external cable routing the manufacture would describe as beyond road. Just a fun bike to go on adventures with. I never even considered anything the Trek dealer, or Specialized dealer had to offer. Bring back external cable routing, mechanical shifting, steel, and titanium. Bring back retro designs, like Trek Multi Track, Specialized Crossroads, but with disc brakes. I want retro 80's or 90's flamboyant paint schemes. I want to see rim brakes improved and brought back on basic bikes, since bedding in and maintaining disc brakes are too much for most causal riders to understand, let alone hydraulics lol.
I will leave this positive. The 1980s, a fantastic time to be to be a part of the cycling world.
Well said! I am a bike mechanic for Trek and I would much rather a simple Marlin walk through the door for a service than an awful Speed Concept! Marlin customers are much better mannered and don’t expect the world just because they bought a way overpriced bike!
Well said, Andy. The spandex tuxedos on old fat guys never did work. And yes, we got together for just the reasons you stated. I love the old stuff. Steel bikes, A gear set up that gets me where I need to go, and a pair of cargo shorts and hiking shoes to ride. I own two jerseys, one due to sentimental value, and the other because it is the brightest color of lime green I could find. I've been riding since I was 12 and from the beginning it was about transportation first, even though I was the only kid on the block who got Velo News. Here we are, 60 years later and my passion for the bikes is just as strong. It's about freedom for kids and a disconnect for adults. I love giving away bikes to kids who wouldn't otherwise have one. A bike is like a get out of jail free card.
BTW, as much fun as your other videos are, this might be the best and most important,
@@FLUSHER822 I don't know. That GT with Cues was pretty good.
No MAMIL here, I ride in cowboyboots and jeans. 72yo.
Love taking curbed bikes fixing them ad passing them on.
Often stolen afterwards, so it's like giving a bike to 5 kids.
Spandex tuxedo ! love it . I just have a car to go to Costco
Well said. It had to happen sooner or later. When Trek bought out the last remaining, independent bike shop in my community similar to yours, everyone flocked to the grand opening for a chance to spin the wheel and walk away with a Trek trinket. $15K for a new bike? Who were they kidding?
I worked for Trek for several years, I was in the first wave of layoffs. Of the 150 employees in my community shops that Trek absorbed, there's literally only three people left. It's not just the bikes, it's their whole corporate culture that's rancid.
I don't like seeing anybody lose their jobs. The prices are out of control! I seen a father in our local shop spend 10k on new family bikes. The bike better wipe my ass for that kind of money. We're in our 60's and leisurely ride cheap old 3 speed bikes that prob cost me less to restore than the tires on those bikes.
Cool thoughts, man. Greg LeMond was the reason I fell in love with cycling when I was in middle school, and to this day there are times when I still pretend I am him on Alp d'Huez, but mostly I just love the feeling of being on two wheels on the kind of bikes that allow me to ride where I want to go.
Fascinating to me that road racer-ism became fashionable right as road cycling in the US became more dangerous than ever!
I like practical bikes: steel frame, step through, 7-speed hub gears, V-brakes, mudguards, luggage rack with basket, frame lock, battery light, suspension seat post and Dutch handlebars. I can repair everything myself... 😊
"Practical bikes for practical people" - I kind of like that idea. "Form follows function" - Frank Lloyd Wright Yeh - A bicycle is a human powered tool to go from point A to point B. Maybe some of us don't need fancier bikes but roads friendlier to bikes. Thank you Bike Farmer for your very good rant.
First off, I love your channel, and others like it. I can't stand the big corporate channels, just like I can't stand the local bike shops in my area. I'm 59 years old, and I've never paid a bike mechanic either...
That being said, I'll admit to owning (and building) a bikepacking bike, a gravel bike (two, counting my wife's bike), and a couple of xc bikes. But here's the thing- I love riding all of them. I've built them all exactly to my own preferences; not what someone else deems I need.
Amen brother, keep on servicing your community with what the people actually want, and may you enjoy all the success you deserve in the future!
Next time I get the urge for another bike, I have to call my sponsor.
Have one of almost everything. (bike Friday SatRday, nuff said)
Most I have, just to have, and ride the p@@s out of my favorite, which changes.
Brommie in the trunk just in case. Just ride it. Yippee
As a bicycle commuter, practical bikes are good. Real world designed rack systems, and trailers, would be great, too.
I grew up as a one bike man; one bike for road, gravel, and woods trails. As an off school, part time pizza cook in 1978, I bought my first bike for $170 ($800+ today). Last year, at 60 years old, I bought a do it all bike for $1500 -moon rocket money!! I couldn't IMAGINE paying more for a bike. Thanks for the great video.
I heard an interview with a bike manufacturer (small company in Germany) and the guy was talking about bikes in the "cheap category, like 1500-2000 Euro" … I was stunned, that a bike is considered cheap at 2000 Euro, that's a looot of money, at least for me (being still in my 30s) 🙈
@@Jan-bf2ht For a bike that has basic gearing and no suspension 2000 euro does sound insane. Which is why expensive road bikes are insane. No one really needs to shave 1g of weight off of a crank arm or something.
But for a full suspension MTB there is a lot more going on and parts that don't have crappy seals that'll let water in (actual useful functionality) aren't cheap.
@@donpalmera Hobbyists pay for their hobby. If you need it and use it , buy it.
Most folks are well served with modest offerings that are well made and fit well.
Like clothes. Fits the budget ,too. A bit of race tech helps my 72yo legs, but 20yo tech on a 25 yo bike.
Most trendy fashion fits very few of those who buy it, as well as 150yo designs.
Love your content. Down to earth, straight forward kind of guy. We need more shops around like yours.
Completely agree. You said what me and many others think about this marketing trend that began in the 90s and then with Armstrong in the early 2000s. Seems as if Armstrong's popularity changed the marketing of biking industry in general. The prices on mountain bikes also went way up as well. And to realize it was driven by deceit of not just Armstrong but by those in the industry that were aware of his deceit.
The Armstrong/ road cycling hype occured right as road cycling became more dangerous than ever. Instead of putting money into lobbying for bicycle infrastructure, the companies invested in racer culture. I'm also shocked that the bike companies have not built velodromes in cities large and small across the country.
Dude! This is the best episode you’ve done and it is the straight poop that the industry needs to hear. Like you, I am a mechanic first, rider second and gave up on the the “industry” because it felt like an abusive relationship. I hope this blip in the market is what will get bike manufacturers back into a better relationship with their customers and retailers.
I tried to help my LBS (who sells Trek) over quarantine, and from 2019-2022 we bought three midrange bikes from them (2 treks and a liv commuter). Frames on 2/3 of those have already failed (rear chainstay weld on one, seatstay on the other).
From 2020-2023 we've bought four bikes from State (a Core Line, a 4130 Single Speed, and two All-Roads), and all of those bikes are still in service, for less money than we spent on the Treks.
You hit this one right on the head Andy. All of the bikes in my stable are close to or over 20 years old, except the ebike (not a Trek) that I bought a few years ago to keep me riding more despite my asthma. I keep all of them well tuned (thanks to my LBS) and ready to ride. I get even more enjoyment from them now more than ever, especially my Ti bikes. The corporate bicycle industry lost my interest long ago. Thanks for being here to support the everyday bicycle enthusiasts! 🚴🚴🚴🙏❤️😎
I agree with a lot of what you said, but I also know that people are inspired and influenced by the thrill of sports. Imagine if instead of a highschool football team, there was an XC MTB squad. It would make biking cool, people would want to look like cyclists. Just my 2 cents.
Thanks for your perspective on the industry! I saw the news and was not surprised, but I think you made some good points, particularly the one about the splinterization of bikes as a product to the point of absurdity.
I’m seeing more bike trails in my RV travels. But as a former roadie, I rather just hit the streets and ride. Or go to the countryside and ride for the pure joy.
True confession: I ride the Trek Dual Sport 4, single drive which is my tie to the carbon frame road bike of my past.
Hope your business continues strong during Treks downsizing!
Dual Sports are ideal for RV life, IMO
Wow, you read my mind about the Lance Era of cycling. I wrote a blog last night with some of the exact points you mentioned.
Wow. Love your opinion about the bike market. I currently have an 11 year old RIE basic comfort bike I paid $400 for then. I thought I wanted a new bike. The Trek sales guy showed me a perfect replacement for $1,600. Yeah couldn’t get out of there fast enough. I put a partial new drivetrain i n mine for about $70. I’m 66 I ride recreationally 1,600 bucks, really?
Bud, I really like your content. The two wheel world needs more folks like you.....organic and funny.... true to the cause! Keep up the good work BikeFarmer!
Hits the nail on the head dead center on the head (to the atomic scale). I was in a small college town independent bike store last week and the lowest price bike was $4,300 USD. They all looked too frail to ride but the biggest surprise was that all the frames had 4th tier (maybe lower) components. Glad I have collected tools over the years and learned how to build the bike I want fit to purpose for my needs because no ready to ride bicycle company has a clue my market exist.
Durianrider on CZcams summed this up in his latest video, for sure he's an ex pro Aussie, and a complete nutter, but he does have a valid point or 2!!
All fantastic points. I run a (mostly) second-hand shop, and while the big shops are struggling, I'm still moving everything I have- because I build the bikes up to be great commuters for an any budget.
What a concept, building bikes regular people can and want to use at a price they can afford. Crazy! 😅
Worked for 18 years in the industry from the late 70's to the mid 90's. Mechanic, sales, service manager, inside sales on the wholesale end and burned out. Now retired and living in Portland Or and work partime at a specialty recumbent trike shop and loving it again. Trek came into town and bought the local chain that really supported the community and filled those stores full of corporate only stock. What was local based unique idea stores became cookie cutter bland upper end roadie crap. Does't surprise me at all.
THANK YOU! I got back on a bike last year after a number of years. And the cost of entry now for a bike of relatively decent quality almost prevented that. I did find one that I am really happy with but it took a while to search.
Excellent conversation. When my local bike shop (Trek dealer) blew up and started carrying 4 or 5 different component levels of the same models and so many models you'd need a sundial and a slide rule to make sense of them, it made it nearly impossible to make a simple selection. Result for me - I found Surly.
I went to buy my first real bike last weekend (a gravel bike) I went to track and the cheapest one was $2,000 with out pedals . I went to a local bike shop and got a cannondale topside for $1,100 and love it .
The topstone is a solid choice. I rode one for several years. Ended up selling it to get another hardtail mtb since I prefer flat bars on all dirt, but I have many regrets about selling it :)
Best video on ANY topic I've seen all week. Immediately subscribed and liked. I have a 2013 Trek Madone with Tiagra components, external cables, and rim brakes. Best bike I've ever owned and still looks and rides like a new one. Heck, I even use it for light bikepacking. 11 years later Trek wants 3 times what I paid for a similar road bike.
Possibly your best video to date. Congrats for having the guts to say what many of us in the business won't.
It is actually hilarious how much Trek and other big brands have neglected the basic commuter bike scene. Regular people don't way to pay thousands for bikes that can be used for few months a year couple times a week. Same in the growing e-bike scene, focus is on mountain bikes etc. Specialized does have some great offering in e-bike commuting bikes but Trek's offering to me seems like an afterthought. Make decent and good looking commuter bikes for the everyday people with an okay price. One reason Canyon is taking some space especially in EU as their e-bike commuters look good and are reasonable priced. Of course dealer based prices can't beat that but getting close to the same level isn't impossible. Of course the problem with USA based companies might be that commuting by bike isn't really that popular due to lack of biking infrastructure and therefore product development lacks a ton.
How will they ever sell bikes for $15k again!
That's the main topic of concern for them .
That part of the market is less affected by the state of the economy. There will be plenty of high end bikes sold.
Isn’t Trek a Walmart brand?
@@stevemcgowenNo
@@samharris3508it’s been years since I have been to a Walmart but I’m pretty sure I remember they sold Trek bikes.
I heard all the rumors. Thank you for telling the story. I appreciate your time❤ I understand and resonate with your passion .I’m just a dude likewise, who loves bikes, loves, riding, and working on bikes. simple practical bikes..❤
Really well put, I couldn't agree more. I was in that trap of what the cycling industry marketed itself, I had all the gear and no idea, and I realised that I just didn't enjoy being a "cyclist". So I sold all my bike equipment and just walked everywhere for the past year. I've only recently picked up a cheap 90s (I think) mountain bike and though I won't say I've found a new love for cycling, I don't hate getting on the bike. I just get on and peddle from A to B and enjoy everything else in between.
Amen brother. Well spoken. Totally agree.
I like what you’re saying but I have to disagree with what you said about NICA. I have done it for over several years and in my experience it has helped kids get outside in a safe and fun environment. It is true that it is expensive, however, trek who you are talking about has provided scholarships for low income families so that their kids can get out and bike while enjoying the outdoors on our team.
Mountain biking is extremely exclusive. I know there are exceptions, but it’s crazy expensive.
@@bkefrmr I definitely agree with that. Something I’ve seen that we are extremely lucky in is having bike shops that support kids who are getting into it making it more accessible.
I cannot figure out why the companies have not helped build velodromes in cities across the country. In a city park, a velodrome would take up as much room as a skateboard park. @@bkefrmr
That was depressingly real. EBike brands seem to figure out that real people don’t care about or want to buy from the OG brands, and seem to be the only ones marketing to what bike culture should be.
With love,
Roadie Snob
There are also too many ''comfy'' bikes that ar far too heavy/ bulky with massive tires. They have a place (if you have a few bikes) but I like to imagine if someone has just one bike what it should be for the average person. It is most likely 32-35mm tire with decent puncture resisitance, 11 gear wide cassette at the back and a simple but lightweight steel frame, possibly alu, but steel frames can be light too.
Weight matters for everyone, getting a bike out if you live in an appartment, or need to catch a train ( I live in Europe) means lifting the bike regularly, and weight helps make the bike easier to ride too.
My ''city'' bike is an old steel mountain bike frame that's slightly too small for me, and with some drop bars (personal preference) 35mm tires and a 2x11. It's highly robust but I got the weight down to 10-11kg without sacrificing strength/spoke count etc (and with a rack). Something like this with straight bars would be ideal if someone had only one bike.
I love building bikes so I have my little fleet, but I do encourage people to care about the bike not being too heavy, and with some fairly decent tires/wheels. A bike that is easier to ride will get ridden more often, and this is part of what makes a good bike. I sometimes help people repair their bikes in my cellar and watching them struggle with the weight going down the stairs highlights the difficulty, espeically if they are in their latter years.
Horrible streets make mountain bike tires necessary many places for comfort and survival.
Sadly they slow me down and reduce my range.
Agree that a lot of function is sacrificed for style
My LBS said my 20yo mountain bicycle was a paper weight. He didn't want anything to do with it. So I brought it back life myself.
Then went to Trek and bought a Checkpoint for rail trails ect.
It's a great bicycle.
10:53 🎤🫳 100% Invest in everyday bicycle life. Bicycle with rides in streets clothes at farmers markets. Just running everyday errands.
This right here. ❤ I am a weekend warrior racer but acknowledge this is all the real deal. I loved the equity message at the end because I was that kid that could barely afford the sport and knew peers who loved bikes but couldn’t afford what we were told was the only way to experience cycling. I hope this gets world wide views.
Completely agree! Thanks!
First, Andy, I completely agree with you about the number of the types of bikes out there. As a utilitarian person, I want one bike for everything I normally do. Thus, I have a main 29er that is mostly all aluminum with a suspension front fork. I use that bike to run errands, and more importantly, pull a garden trailer that is a direct-pull trailer, rather than a side-pull trailer. My 29 has a 3 x 7 system on it for a drivetrain.
My other bike is a 26" Huffy mid-suspension bike I ended up converting to rigid forks in the front. It also has a 3 x 7 drivetrain, and the only thing it can't do is pull my wagon.
That being said, both bikes are comfortable for me to ride. They each have low rolling resistance because of street tread on every tire. I also do all of my own maintainence and repairs.
That being said, the biggest mistake I see most bike companies making is proprietary components. This drives up the cost of a bike across the board: MSRP, parts replacement, and servicing. Universal components are much better, because of interchangeability and parts replacement -- especially if you do bike-packing and something breaks. When you did that GT bike and put the Shimamo CUES components on that bike, my thought was, Shimano got that product line right, because everything is interchangeable. The cost becomes known, which, if the parts are reliable, makes for repeat customers.
Which is why companies like Trek need to simplify. Simplify their products they sell, which in turn simplifies costs. Too often, bike companies try to act like car companies and sell a new model every year, when what needs to happen is, have a good desirable platform with several options, and make multi-use bikes that can be used for several purposes, rather than a 1-type/1-use kind of bike. Yeah, you might be able to charge higher prices, but your production costs are higher too.
Anyways, them's my thoughts on this. Can't say I didn't see this coming, since car companies have been cutting back on both brands and number of models for roughly 15 years now. This was inevitable.
Wow, not only did you give us a history lesson, you provided corporate advise that I believe was spot on. When you finished up with the offer of employment I felt you nailed this video.
You know someone fcuked somewhere when used 20+ years old bikes sell like hot cakes and generate countless videos on CZcams and hardly anyone is paying attention to new bikes.
@@anthonypapp6349
I have a Trek Top Fuel 110 3x on 26” wheels bought used in 2005. One day I took to the LBS for a full rebuild and the mechanic says to me
“Oh Retro”. It’s still going strong.
Old bikes were designed and built by cyclists for cycling. New bikes are made for market cap.
been waiting on the cull, and I guess we are at the beginning of it. regular bikes for regular people is exactly right, and is exactly what will keep shops in business. couple that with quality service and a welcoming and positive vibe, and you will make it through. that's what we are doing... and it is working.
In 1998 I bought my first Porsche. Used, of course. Last year I bought a new bike (at significant end-of-year markdown), for the exact same dollar amount. That's part testimony to the effect of inflation on the dollar, and part highlights just how expensive bicycles are now.
Thank you sir…well said. I’m in Sydney Australia and this has to be heard down here.
As someone who works as a software engineer in Silicon Valley, a 10% layoff is considered modest in the tech industry. I assume it would hit much, much harder if these staff cuts are concentrated at Trek HQ which is located outside a major urban center.
Agreed. Also, I think it’s the tip of the iceberg.
I just love your perspective. You are 100% correct. I picked up a Trek hybrid bike 2 weeks back - completely refurbished it - looked great and sold it within a day - made a ++.. Over a year ago I picked up a full suspension Gary Fisher (Trek) really cheap - refurbished it - looked and worked great , took a year + to sell and lost my shirt ------- big time but the teenager who bought it with his pocket money was so happy. The hybrids have always gone quickly at +. There have been a few notable exceptions - got a matching pair of specialized road bikes out of a barn for a mere $10 each - refurbed them - lots of cleaning and lube but only minor new stuff like chains and cables and tyres. Wow they went for ++++++ really quickly and subsidised several 90's steel Trek mtb rebuilds. Keep up the down to earth approach and I wish you continued success 👍😀
Yup....I have loved bikes all my life, and I'm nearing 60. Have been through all the phases of cycling. Now just in it to enjoy a comfortable ride on an easy to maintain bike. Life has forced me to become a normal cyclist, and that's all my talent really allowed for anyway. LOL. Steel has replaced carbon fiber.. and muscle and joint pain cream has replaced chamois cream. Would like to see cycling become more fun and affordable for everyone.
Cannondale made in USA, the greatest frames and this comes from a Limey !!! Brake like the wind!!
@@lawrencehallett5669 Been a long, long time since Cannondales were made in the USA. They're made in Taiwan now.
@@mattgies still the best bikes, got a Chase, 2 x caad3, caad4 , caad5 MTB , and caad7 road bike oh and a ccad2 Nos that's never been built up and a pair of no's coda wheels for it. Personally I find they are far better than modern frames. Other bikes include top end Falcon, Dawes, Aende and Fat Chance.
Here in Japan(I'm in Osaka, Kansai area), the bike culture is different than USA. Here we have the Mama-chari, for me the best designed bike for most people, everybody rides this kind of bike, kids, moms, elderly people, dogs, cats... Sports bikes sales going down but the mama-chari market still the same for years, with almost same design, parts and sizes.
I love all kinds of bikes, even the gucci ones. But my favourite is whichever one replaces a car for it's owner, even if that's only one day a week.
love it. wish i lived near you because your shop sounds like the type i've always wanted to work at.
It is all about price point. . In the 1990-2000 our average price was $700-800. We sold Treck, Norco ,and KHS. Our small shop was about customer service , sales, and accessories . We did just fine.
The price point is not just inflation . You have to look a the manufactures, or the wholesalers, and the retailers. Who has the biggest profit. Follow the Money.
I am retired now , but i still buy from the wholesalers. The new bike I just built cost me about $1800, shop price would have been $5000, equivalent. What's wrong with this picture?
TREK was the best Company I have ever worked with between 1985 to late 90s. They were like family. Sales and customer service (small shops) They need to get back to the basics.
Now that what I call a logical, common sense bicycle video. Little did I know, kudo's for putting it out there.
I thought your comment about Trek & the state of industry was spot on!
In 2018 I volunteerd for the Trek CX -They had a display set up for the latest and greatest bikes. In the corner of the display they had a steel gravel bike with a super cool design. It was a newer bike done by Trek and Bonntrager. A lot of people were really digging it. I told the Trek this is what people want! They looked at me like I was crazy and kept going on & about the Checkpoint was better
I thought Trek has lost the plot and only wants to make bikes for elite level racers vs regular people. Trek still makes a great product but just not the bike for the people that they started with
Cheers
I think I know who has that bike!
Love what you're saying. Unfortunately I think the bad news is...e-bikes...Not the cargo based, lifestyle practical ones. The "athletic replacement" ones. I got passed/nearly killed by an e-bike downhill sport machine being ridden by someone who clearly couldn't ride a normal bike up anything but loves going downhill hill as fast as possible to "shred the nar". I can only imagine that bike will lean up against that suckers garage wall in a months time never to be ridden again but the $10,000 pice tag has been enough to ensure that "trekbikes" can keep going down that path. I've ridden the latest trek e-mountain bike. It's more like driving a car and costs more than one. Cue face palm.
What would be really nice is being able to hire a bike before you buy. That would let you try out lots of different styles. Sometimes you don't know what you want until you had a go
Oh man you nailed it!! I’m a bike guy to the core and I can’t stand going into a bike shop much anymore. I have 6 bikes in my garage and I ride most of them. I try to use the shop to help support them. Times are definitely tough for them. They worried about the bike boom over Covid and they were correct to worry about how things are today. Great video!!!
Great video. I'm a long-time biker but I feel completely alienated by modern high end bikes and bike shops these days. I recently moved and found a new 1-person local bike shop that's small, friendly and informal and sells affordable everyday bikes, and after watching your video I now understand why I chose him. I'm not comfortable in a modern high end bike shop that feels like an Audi dealership or even a fancy art gallery.
I think u hit on a point worth elaborating on…the industry shifted to advanced technology upgrades that were no longer consumer centric. As much as I love light weight composites, electronic shifting and disc brakes the industry’s exclusive shift to these technologies only made an already expensive product 2-3x more expensive including the ongoing maintenance. replacing rim brake pads at $25 a pair every few yrs became a $200 job w new rotors and pads every 6-8 months. Tires costing as much as car tires, standardized fittings shifted to exclusive and proprietary and ever dwindling into rapid obsolescence. What was itemizable and repairable now requires total replacement, durability eschewed for weight savings, and all in all performance over practicality.
Excellent video.Thank you for your honest opinions. Love Trek bikes own 2 (Madone/Domaine) .Hope Trek stays in business.
Hmm... I'm looking at this from a racers perspective. I'll put 10k-15k miles/year on my bike typically. When I talk to folks at races (road and crit especially but even triathlons too) most folks tend to get a new bike roughly every 3-5 years. On the other hand I see folks riding around town on 50 year old bikes that were handed down from a parent or grandparent and they just get a tune up every year. That tune up can cost $100-200 or so and is great for the LBS as it keeps a mechanic busy for an hour or two and generates income for the shop even though they didn't sell a bike. However, that does nothing for the manufacturer as they aren't seeing product being moved. I think the reason many of the manufacturers have focused on race oriented bikes is because they know that they're going to see a higher turnover in product if people are buying a new bike within 5 years or so instead of 50+ years. One is great for the consumer, one is great for the manufacturer. So, by focusing on "normal" people they might see a marginal increase in sales for a while but then that will level off as well as people don't need to buy a bike for over half a century and they can give it to their kid and grand kids. It's like a wedding ring at that point!
Lot of truth to what you’re saying. Bikes sure are durable!
@@bkefrmr Depends on the material and riding style. Steel frame welded together by a skilled welder and ridden to/from work and for errands and casual meetups with friends? Yeah, that bike will last as long as it isn't allowed to rust! A full carbon frame that's spec'd to be as light as possible, that's ridden hard and raced regularly (like mine)? Trust me, you don't want to get on that thing after a few years because it's literally ready to fall apart and lets you know it, haha! However, I love carbon fiber for what I do but wouldn't mind seeing more companies have lines with steel frames priced for the rest of the population because carbon prices aren't for everyone, and not everyone needs it anyway. I wish you and your business well and hope the best for the folks at trek, my first TT bike was a speed concept many years ago!
Likely turning-downward economy further supports generic bicycle sales.
Also bring back rim brakes, feature non-cassette geartrain, external cables and belt drive, not other than steel or aluminum frame.
And now you"re truing the BIG TREK wheel. 😉
I hope the TREK management looks at your youtube channel (big change they are) and maybe do something with that info to get them back on track.
Sad to hear that these troubles will affect people in your area.
I wish them who are, the best of luck,faith and patience.
Awesome well thought out and well spoken, 👍
Celebrating my 18 years of local bike shop ownership. Things change and evolve. Seen it happen for the past 18 years. Luckily Specialized has supported me that whole time as well. Is the industry changing? Yes. Has it always been changing? You bet. One thing that has remained the same is customer service and your brand. Sure, we're a Specialized brand but our bike shop is our brand. Take care of the customer and they'll take care of you. It really is that simple.
It’s sorta that simple. Rumor is that Specialized is in dire straits these days. Not sure how true it is, but it’s very believable.
Excellent post! The other reason the bike market is on its back is the cost. Everything is priced out of sight for the average consumer. Even a hardened roadie like myself, I just can’t bring myself to pay what they’re asking for new road bikes. Who’s got a spare $10k burning a hole in their pocket. It’s basic economics, if demand is down prices need to reflect this and come down. However they seem to be going in the opposite direction. Thanks again.
Excellent video. I'm a 70-year-old dipping my toe back into bicycles after 50 years on motorcycles. I bought a used Trek Verve 3 last week from a local shop and it was a good experience. But leading up to that was baffling: far too many categories and subcategories of bikes for the market. Gravel? Road? Hybrid? Mountain bike? It got confusing and frankly ridiculous. I'm all for offering the customer what they want but regular people don't need 38 choices. Give us a good bike at a good price, keep it simple and all will be resolved.
Preach! Youre right on the money here.
Also at around 10.20 you forgot to mention Time Trial bikes…🤦♂️
THANK YOU FOR NOT CALLING THEM TRI BIKES
first time at the bike farmer; you have some interesting insights into the bike world.
I haven't bought a new bike since 1996.
Still ride my steel bike, several times a week, that was built in '88.
Good rant. Subscribed!
I felt a lot of this when looking for a new (gasp) forever road bike. That and insane complication and cost of the bikes themselves. I would have bought a new bike, but at least Craigslist exists and united me with a nice clean full carbon... LeMond. My next bike will be normal, I swear. Thanks for what you do. I'm teaching myself how to work on bikes, and this is invaluable to that end.
Wow! First time at your site. You sound like Paul Harvey and Tucker Carlson combined for the bike industry and our economic times in general. Good business and common sense all in one! As an aging baby boomer who grew up riding real, Chicago made Schwinn bikes, you nailed it. We just want to ride and enjoy it, not become a professional cyclist. Don't worry though, Brandonomics is going to make bike riding a necessity for millions sooner than we think. Keep on brother! Thanks!
How insulting. Pretty sure you are my least favorite type of human. You’ve aged out and are in a cult. But thanks for watching and commenting!
Great video. Right language for where we are now and how LA hurt so many.
I couldn't agree with you more. I bought a Trek Dual Sport 4 about six years ago and experienced the very feeling you described. When I purchased my bike I felt like I was bothersome to the staff. In my area (The Smokey Mountains of East Tennessee) mountain biking is the thing.
I’m the exact opposite in my shop.
"I don't need anything fancy, like a Trek". That's almost exactly what I said when I was bike-shopping last year. I might have also discounted Specialized as well.
I live in a 55+ community in Colorado. Residents are mostly from California, Texas and illinois. Many of the residents are unloading their 20 year old comfort bikes for e-bikes with wider tires. E-bikes are the growing market for the cycling industry.
Intelligent, weird thought out and spot on. "market to your audience ".
This was one excellent video. Subscribed.
Love your point of view man, well said
I like all the bike shops i visit here in San Antonio bc i see thise same mechanics out in the trail. They are down to earth and give me great advice and insight. All bike shops should be like this