Everything You Didn’t Know About Titanium Bikes
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- čas přidán 16. 05. 2024
- Is titanium the king of bike materials? Many people consider it to be the best frame material but how does it differ to the likes of carbon fibre, aluminium and steel? Alex speaks to titanium bikes expert Tom Sturdy to find out exactly what makes titanium frames and components so good. Should your next bike be titanium? Here’s everything you need to know!
00:00 Intro
00:32 Tom Sturdy
01:00 What is titanium?
02:08 Making a titanium bike
04:18 Comparison to other metals
05:50 Advantages of titanium bikes
07:22 Frame robustness
08:25 Titanium buzz
09:23 Price of titanium bikes
10:58 3D-printed titanium
12:48 Will titanium become mainstream?
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Do you own a titanium bike? Let us know in the comments 👇
Yes. Serotta Legend TI. Dura Ace 10 speed. Ksyrium SL wheels. It's an old school mid 2000s TI ride. But pretty nice, smooth. Light. It was in storage at the former owners under a tarp so it was virtually mint condition and never really got ridden. I have rectified that.
Yes. Bianchi Matta S9. Campagnolo Record 10 speed + Vento wheels + 3ttt bars and stem. Love riding it. Not overly light - but neither am I ...
Just bought a Reilly T325D last week gorgeous 😊
Yes. Lynskey Sportive 2019. Excellent bike.
Yes! I’ve had Litespeed MTBs and Road bikes since 1998. I currently have Lynskey Helix and Lynskey GR300. I put 50,000 miles on a Litespeed Vortex and I sold that frameset to someone else for $1500. I’ve got 10,000 miles on my Helix and 7,000 on my GR300.
So, I’ve got lots of experience on Ti bikes.
I’ve had Carbon Road and MTBs too.
I’m not sure what’s going on in the UK but here in the states Ti bikes have become cheaper than carbon bikes now. Sadly, the industry pushes high priced carbon that doesn’t last and you can’t recycle. Carbon is the best for racing! I get that. But it’s not the best material for regular people and the environment.
Finally talking to someone that knows their stuff that isn't all sunshine and rainbows like an ad. Very much appreciated. Even when talking about road chatter wasn't over emphasized as it shouldn't given that frame mitigates all that in relatively small way compared to tires spokes and saddle, grips and soles. We need more content like this!
Looking just at the frame, the material is only one factor. Frame geometry, tube geometry, wall thickness, and fabrication methods all play significant roles in the "comfort" of a frame as well and are difficult concepts to convey to your average rider.
@@eoinkenny3188 Sure are and even same geometry with same amount of materials but thinner wall of a larger diameter Vs thicker wall of smaller diameter affects characteristics significantly. I really liked the interview conveying the nuance. I'd love to see a discussion about what we think of as comfort and how big of an effect componens have. Like it's beef done to death with performance of tires rims aero lightweight clothing etc but properly attributing effect sizes for tires saddles seat posts their offset. Because when talking about frame flex and dampening it's certainly not placebo but changing tire pressure couple psi can have way more significant effect than modern frame characteristics on comfort. When we did experiments at our uni people weren't able to discern squat when it came to frame designed when we obscured them.
lol that's cope. Any steel or Ti bike is going to soak up road chatter much much better than your dentist bike.
@___Bebo___ always here to tell everyone you're a mindless🤡
@___Bebo___ funny thing is that a lot of titanium bikes are considered "dentist bikes"
Love this guy, he's the clearest example of an engineer at heart, none of the marketing bs.
I have a Moots and would not trade it for 10 "plastic" bikes
I love the honesty of the discussion here. No overly definitive statements or fluff, just calmly presenting the trade-offs.
I ride a 24 year old Litespeed with modern Dura Ace. Weight 7,5 kg. I've ridden everything with it. I ride it all year round. Great machine. Stiff, tough and still comfortable.
Yes. Mine is about 20 years old.
Good for you. My Litespeed frame cracked at 20k miles and 15 years with 150 pound rider in his 50s. The bike was never crashed and looked nearly showroom fresh. LITESPEED REFUSED TO WARRANTY.
My 23 year old litespeed is over 20000 miles and is in great shape. It’s a little heavier 9kg. But so am I at 90 kg
Never got a frame but a Titanium Raceface BB from Canada has lasted 25 years without any issues on mountain bike. I usually look for Litespeed when shopping.
I've one the same age, still looks like new...what great bikes. I did put down tube shifters on it as I can service them.
video idea for you guys: a blind frame material comparison between ti, steel, and carbon. keep wheels tires saddle bars and groupset identical. cover the frame so riders cant see it. see if they can reliably identify any comfort or smoothness differences
The problem with this is that you would also need identical geometry and that's hard to do in practice.
Why? Having a 1cm lower stack height doesn't give away it's a carbon frame.
easy enough to get the stack reach and seat tube angle the same with stem/spacers/saddle position adjustments. anyway if frame material "Ride" differences are not profound enough to show up under a few cm of geometry changes, then I would suggest they are overblown =) @@jaunedroite
You won't be able to. A bike is a double triangle, there is no such thing as vertical compliance without vertical movement (suspension). Steel can flex at the BB shell because of the thinness of the tubes but thst is horizontal compliance
Compliance is only achieved in the seatpost, handlebars, tyres and suspension, not in the frame.
I have aluminum, carbon and titanium bikes all with Ultegra and all fit me properly. These are all very high end bikes with the aluminum one being the lowest cost with the titanium and carbons being about the same (in the pricing stratosphere). The rides are definitely different with the difference being much more pronounced on rougher surfaces. The titanium bike somehow soaks up the ride better at the same speed. It's hard to explain but it like the titanium bike gives you back some energy a it like surfing.
They always say "a Ti bike is your last bike" or words to that affect! One thing I think that always stands out is the appearance of a Ti bike! It just has that special look about it. You can always tell the difference between a brushed Alu frame and a raw Ti frame! It just has that smoothness and shines in a certain way. Great film as ever 👍
The problem with that notion is that preferences for some largely immutable things change. My 10+ year old Ti frame is limited to 25mm tires in the rear and is rim brake only. I don't necessarily care to have disc brakes, but I would like the option of larger tires and I cannot do it, at least on the rear. I suppose I could get a new fork with clearance for a fatter tire up front, and even a front disc brake, but I'm forever stuck with 25mm tires and rim brake in the back. Well, I suppose I could look at one of the reasons for the revival of 584mm/650b--converting skinny-tire 622mm/700c bikes to take fatter tires, but by the time I get new wheels, new long reach caliper brakes, etc., I might as well just get a new (last?) bike.
I'm still riding my 1998 Litespeed Classic; still strikingly beautiful in brushed finish. Updated to Shimano Compact Ultegra 11 speed groupo and HED wheels; 28 mm Conti's. Lifetime bike indeed. 45K miles.
I had a '99 Litespeed classic that I sold after 20 years and 40k miles. It was still in great shape and had by far the best ride quality of any bike I've owned. I really regret selling it.
Another way to consider the cost is the amount invested spaced over time. I have 3 Ti bikes (road, cross/gravel, and mtb) and I love them all. The road bike was purchased new and custom built over 30 years ago, which cost me a pretty penny ($3K) at the time. The others were purchased on the second hand market at or below fair market value.
I find that the performance they deliver is a mostly a matter of the overall build quality (wheels, crank, etc) and is not really diminished by time itself per se. Admittedly, they are not quite on a performance level with a purebred modern carbon race bike from the 2015 era, but they are close enough that it’s the rider making the difference and not the bike (and they are every bit as fast as the 2023 hydraulic disc brake, battery operated gear shifting ones).
So based on my initial investment I have paid $100 a year for the road bike that I bought at full retail, and much less for the others.
@gcntech Great video, Alex! More like this please. It's good to see bikes that aren't carbon fibre aero race bikes covered on GCN. There's so much more to cycling.
My first Ti bike is the Curve GXR, which I got when I was an ambassador for them. I already owned their "Kevin of Steel" and out of curiosity, I built up their titanium "Kevin" ( GXR ) with an identical build kit so I could ride them back to back to compare. I tried both bikes with 650b wheels and 2.3" tires and also a quicker 700 x 42 setup. I found that I preferred the "snap" of the Columbus Zona steel tubing when I was riding the bike fast, however, the titanium frame eliminated all road chatter on rough pavement and somehow magically smoothed out the washboards on beaten up gravel roads.
My second Ti bike was an Alchemy Atlas road bike. The tubes on the Curve are flatted and welded horizontally, which I understand gives it more of that comfortable feeling, however, on the Alchemy the tubes are flattened and welded vertically, which I understand gives it more of that rigid feeling you want on a proper road bike. The bike is *considerably* more rigid than my Curve and, compared to the carbon bikes I've ridden, would say is equally as stiff while offering a frame I'm not scared to lean up against a fence post.
My third Ti bike was a custom hardtail I helped design with Sam from Singular, dubbed "The Spitfire" ( possible production run in the future ). Coming from a steel hardtail, the titanium was a noticeable improvement. Whether ripping up trails or bikepacking, I could really notice that "comfort" feeling that Tom from Sturdy mentioned.
My fourth and most recent Ti bike was the "Double Ace" from Woho, which is maybe a lesser-known company, but the build quality of their bikes is on-par with the Curve that I still have, but costs about $1400 less. So far, I'm really impressed with the bike. I was looking for something to bridge the gap between my Curve, running big chunky tires for rougher roads, and my Alchemy which is really setup for road. My initial thoughts are that it's worth looking into for those who are ti-curious. They're easy to find here in the US/Canada through their distribution partner - cycletouring.shop/products/woho-double-ace-titanium-gravel-road-bike-frameset
I have two all steel and two carbon-steel road bikes and perhaps like you I have enjoyed the Zona steel with Columbus Carve carbon italian bike with 25mm Conti tires when riding fast in summer its cool. But when riding for exercise at night I prefer the all-steel Independent Fabrications because its more forgiving over pavement and so is the classic lugged Bianchi I have.
I have a titanium bike ( Van Nicholas ) for 3 years now, it has an Ultegra Di2, I am very pleased with it. On the personal side: I find it also important to have a bike that doesn't look like all the other bikes ( aero, matte black, etc.. ), that was one of the reasons I bought it.
having the possibility to use something yours for a lifetime is something unique in the current world where things are made to be consumed, or subscriptions fees are the norm, etc... Or capitalism and so on
Wel van Nicholas heb je?
@@gerardheinen510 Boreas Di2
Great video. Really enjoyed hearing an expert talking about the material. I've had my Ti road bike (handmade by T-Lab in Montreal) for a year. I love it. Does it feel so much better than my carbon bike? Maybe, but I think a quality frame of any material with the right setup will ride well. However, the carbon bike snapped in two places despite never having crashed, and (after repair) now sits more or less permanently on the trainer. I had a crash on the Ti bike, and with the exception of a broken derailleur hanger ($20 to replace), there was not a scratch on the bike.
This was a fascinating video, with some truly interesting insights. Thank you to Alex, Tom and the GCN team behind this.
Finally purchased my first Ti bike at 59 and it doesn't disappoint; handles everything so much smoother and where it really excels is the stiffness when powering through pedal strokes; feels like 100% effort is being delivered where it should be. My first was purchased used off EBay, a 2017 Lynskey R265 with rim brakes and the Lynskey carbon fork with Ultegra group and a Campy Centaur crank. For what I paid there are Aluminum bikes with Disc brakes that cost way more. I'm definitely a CONVERT! riding with Ultegra wheels and 28mm tires with tubes a carbon seat post and carbon bars...
What's stands out most to me most are the lack of downsides to owning a TITANIUM BIKE, ie. the cost of the bike, the difficulty in repairing since it can't be welded in air and that cost would be expensive also. THAT'S IT! These are the only downsides to owning or purchasing a Ti bike.
Such a great overview - thanks GCN and Tom!
Thanks Alex, great overview. would like to see more like this with close-ups.
Built up a titanium road bike around a custom frame from Waltly this past spring and have since put nearly 5000km on it, and I love it. Feels great, looks great, and rides nice and quickly.
how much did you pay for the custom frame?
As Richard Sachs says, “The tubes aren’t the bike, the components aren’t the bike - the bike is the bike.” You can make a great or terrible bike from Ti, steel, Al, or CF. It’s more likely that a one person shop can make a custom steel frame, a bit less likely Ti or Al, but much less likely CF due to tool costs. It’s also more likely that the one person shop can make that custom bike at an affordable price or with constructeur doodads like built-in lighting and racks and mudguards. Since fit comes first, some people will have much better luck with the small builder than hoping Trek or whoever has it in their catalog. The material is less interesting than what a builder is able (and willing) to do with it.
This! I tell some many people in every material comparisons about carbon, steel titanium discussions. It's not the material but how it was designed and built. It also highly depend on who built it! I've experienced this on so many levels that no one can convince me that 1 material is better than the other as I've ridden some impossible frames that just felt incredible without losing any riding characteristics such as combining comfort and stiffness together on 25c 100psi tires. People say tires make the comfort level but I've ridden frames where those same wheels/ tires felt wayy way better on 1 frame vs another.
Titanium is insanium. I was t-boned by a car on my titanium bicyle. Bicycle did a flip over the bonnet, bounced off the car and crashed to the road. The carbon handlebar exploded. The aluminium wheels only needed a new rear tube and spokes adjusted. Could not find any scratch on the titanium frame or fork. I have not ridden anything that I've liked more.
I have a number of current top of the range carbon bikes, but my fave bike is actually a 1996 Bianchi Ti-Megatube (equipped with newer components) which I still ride a few times each week. It's just an amazing ride, and as Tom said Ti really is both springy and comfy. Love it!
I have exactly the same bike, w/the original Campy Record 8 speed, but have continuously upgraded the wheels & tyres. A beautiful, timeless machine, and a joy to ride.
The thumbnail image of this video is my dream bike. I love the aesthetic of monotone color and the simplicity of 1 by.
A more scientific way to explain why titanium is not used in its pure form is because of its atomic structure. Bonded metallically, the titanium cations form a giant lattice. Layers of titanium cations would slide along each other easily when applied a force, making it easy to bend. When made into an alloy, the cations of other elements like aluminium and vanadium disrupt the organised lattice, making it harder to slide past each other, so it would be stronger when applied force. (Basically highschool chemistry but here u go)
Tom gave a general feel of relative properties of Al, Ti, Steel but could so easily have said (truly) that the stiffness to weight ratios of all 3 are about the same and the strenght to weight ratios are about the same. Alloying these metals improve the strength to weight ratios but do little for their stiffness to weight ratios.
@@emmabird9745 True. Nearly all metals need to be alloyed to improve their strength and durability to make a bike frame.
Great discussion. How is Strength measured differently than Stiffness?@@natechen534
As I finished writing the above question I realized I could google it - here's what is says:
Strength and stiffness are two important properties of metals that are often used interchangeably, but they have distinct meanings and are measured differently.
Strength is a measure of a material's ability to withstand an applied force without breaking or undergoing permanent deformation. It is typically measured in units of stress, such as pascals (Pa) or megapascals (MPa). Common tests used to determine the strength of metals include:
Tensile test: This test measures the maximum stress a material can withstand before it breaks. The result is reported as tensile strength.
Yield strength: This test measures the stress at which a material begins to undergo permanent deformation. The result is reported as yield strength.
Stiffness, also known as rigidity or Young's modulus, is a measure of a material's resistance to elastic deformation. It describes how much a material will deform under a given load. Stiffness is typically measured in units of modulus, such as pascals per square meter (Pa·m⁻²) or gigapascals per square meter (GPa·m⁻²). Common tests used to determine the stiffness of metals include:
Tension test: This test measures the amount of elongation (strain) a material undergoes under a given load. The result is reported as Young's modulus.
Flexural test: This test measures the deflection of a beam or bar under a given load. The result is reported as flexural rigidity.
In summary, strength measures a material's ability to withstand stress without breaking, while stiffness measures a material's resistance to elastic deformation. Both properties are important in engineering applications, as they determine how a material will respond to various loading conditions.
@@rickmorse3351 Yes all true but what your Google failed to tell you is the importance of compression strength (buckling) which is usually the critical parameter in thin walled tubes and is a function of Young's modulus, wall thickness and tube radius.
Learned a lot thanks!
I have a 2005 Litespeed Vortex (TdF green jersey winner Robbie McEwen rode one) and fitted out with Zipp 808/ 404 wheel set with Campagnolo Record groupset and 3T carbon fork and bars it rides similarly to my Cervelo P3 Carbon TT bike. A lifetime rocket ship.
I own two titanium bikes and love them to death. One is a Merlin from '91, almost fully original with the 8-speed Dura-Ace STI and Mavic Open Pro wheels. An absolute delight to ride 🙂 But don't take it out to often. My main use bike is an Italian no-name frame (don't know which manufacturer any more) from '98, which has been upgraded from 2x9 -> 2x10 -> 2x11 to now having 2x12 wireless. Main drawbacks are the ITA BB, 1" headset and no possibility for internal routing, basically eliminating Shimano DI groupsets.(I love rim brakes! 🙂 ) But it has some amazing history having been my steed for many Grand fondo's over the past 25 years. No need for any other bike for me!
What size tire width? Thx.
Bought my first Ti bike in May and absolutely love it!
I bought a titanium bike over twenty years ago. I love it! It is comfortable and tough. Great video thank you
I am still riding my 2010 Habanero bike, just upgraded to SRAM axs and tubeless.
My titanium bike is16 years old with close to 100,000 miles. I can clean it up and it looks brand new. It is FAR tougher than any carbon bike can be. It is so easy to damage a carbon bike. A titanium bike is not going to be as light as carbon or as aero and it will cost more. But in the long run, it is the only bike for me.
I just bought a lynskey Ti frame today. It's my first Ti, and I'm looking forward to it. Great video in general!
A great video. I have a Lynskey titanium bike with all campy group set and wheels.
I a joy to ride. Always get stopped by other riders and asked about it. Love it. Hmm maybe I’ll send it to the bike vault . Thanks again for the video.
I had a couple ti bikes over the years. I'm finding, at least from the brands I've tried recently, that they are trying too hard to make it feel like a carbon bike. The oversized tubes, the shapes, it seems like they are trying to get the metal to be stiff so when a consumer jumps on it, they think wow great, but you're losing the magic of titanium (or metal for that matter). It's not a bad thing in some cases to have a nice comfy bike that takes a couple more pedal revolutions to get up to speed, sometimes you want to just spin and enjoy the ride. Probably better to work with a builder than get something off the shelf, to get that magic carpet ride.
The chainring was a thing of beauty... Thanks for this episode; very good content!
It all comes down to the actual build. Conified tubes that combine different strengths and shapes of tubes to alleviate Ti-weaknesses for instance are just as important as the material itself. That's true for all bike materials though, hence the different qualities in carbon bikes.
That being said, I have a Ti-Gravel/Endurance bike and love it! It's so smooth to ride and quite nimble, even at 9kg for size L. (Fork and seat post is Ti too)
I got a titanium bike, replacing my PlanetX carbon frame, and I did not pay the Moots price. While it is not as custom as Moots, it is a quality build and so far, I love it.
2 Litespeed Ti bikes. Mtn and Road. Love the 1998 Unicoi disc. Many thousand miles on it. Vertical compliance is so nice. Laterally very flexy, but understandable. Chainstay broke after about 15 years. King Cage fixed for me and now its going strong again, it's the ultimate gravel/XC-lite frame. The Vortex was another story. Felt great in most circumstances, but at high speeds and very unpredictably there would be a terrifying speed wobble. Dang that was scary. Braking made it worse. Pedaling faster out of it was the key. Impossible on some hairy descents. Only had that one for a couple years, too scary. I LOVE the no worries durability of Ti.
Wonderful video, thanks! ❤
I've had 2 full titanium frames; 1 mtb (front suspension), and 1 road (carbon fork), the lasting non painted or coated finish is nice, and the bit of flexibility can be nice too, but at times the flexibility feels a little bit too much like a rubber band; I now have a road bike that the front half is ti and the stays carbon (carbon fork) it's a great combo, it still has a little compliance but the rubber band feeling isn't there, best feeling road bike I've ridden.
Good info. I am still curious as to which material is better for a gravel fork? Thanx!
Have a litespeed purchased in 1998. Have a garage full of worn out wheels , chains and two carbon frames. Best riding bike I have ever owned . Started racing in 1968, am now 80 and still riding mt Litespeed.
I absolutely love my Seven Axiom 007 tandem. Its been raced on the road and gravel with 400lb plus teams. The ride quality has been amazing, which I will attribute to the team at Seven more than titanium. like Tom said, it would not take much to build an uncomfortable titanium frame.
Nice interview. A crucial element for me is the lifetime-assurance. I own now 3 great titanium bikes, the oldest one is my Litespeed Vortex 2002, still going strong with SRAM Red Etap.
Two back to back interesting videos from Alex and the team,well done. Shouldn't hurt the end of year,undoubtedly high (apply sarcasm if needed) bonuses I should think😂
Brilliant - really interesting. Thank you
Recently refreshed my early 90’s titanium Clark-Kent road bike with light carbon wheels and SRAM brakes to handle the 30mm rim width of modern rims. 28mm tires fit fine but 30mm tires would be awfully close. Plush ride with that frame and 50 psi in the tubeless Corsa pros
I have a titanium Chromag Rootdown. Beyond love it. I can’t say it’s much different from the steel version that I also have owned. It is definitely lighter, more nimble and fun but that is also part of the entire build. I can say that the lack of paint to worry about, looks, and wow factor are why I would never go back. Love ti bikes. Owning one is a very special, rare and unique experience.
I've got a titanium gravel and a titanium road bike and they're both "bikes for life" as Tom stated. I absolutely love them both. They will certainly outlast me.
No mention was made of the stringent standards required for welding and the incidence of weld defects leading to fatigue cracking. My advice is thrash your bike while it is under warranty, get it inspected, and if clear you should be OK.
Now that carbon is getting cheaper the bike industry is moving back to titanium as the new expensive status material.
Good point
8:00 - I have a tandem with a hydroformed alu frame (made by Lapierre). I love it and hope it will last many thousands of kilometers (100 000 km - why not?).
Would a titanium frame be better in terms of impact resistance?
Love Ti for the feel of the ride. I find Al feels flimsy, and steel is way to stiff for me. Ti hits the amazing sweet spot where it is stiff enough to be responsive, but compliant enough to be comfortable. Only the very very best carbon frame I've ever tried felt as natural to ride. There are times where my Ti bike feels almost alive - like it's responding to the road with me. I know that sounds dorky and over the top, but it's true.
that makes sense but by two steel bikes are very supple and the steel is the suspension in mine. I wonder what you rode? The thinner and lighter steels will definitely be bouncier than stiffer profiled Zona frames. Older lugged steel may ride sweetly too.
Doesn't sound weird at all as that's exactly how my Ti bike feels. It feels like the most advanced active suspension on a luxury car, only it does this inherently without sensors or dampers. It just soaks up road vibrations and sends them packing. Never ages or loses any of that. It's basically a miracle material, if fabricated properly. I see no reason to ever replace it, at most I'll get new components but the frame is for life.
I have a De Rosa Titanio XS 6.4Ti bike, it is now 17 years old and cleans up almost as new ( logo's etc have a little wear ). The first time I rode it I was shocked, it replaced a Continental ProTour team titanium frame and the De Rosa was like getting out of a typical family car and into a Ferrari ! Really ! Faster, smoother comfort and sharp handling... This bike absolutely makes me smile every time I ride it... I Have ridden many differnet steel bikes, aluminium and carbon. The only other bike that was so engaging was the beautiful bespoke Service Des Course Raleigh 753... The De Rosa overall is the better tool though. Always Campagnolo equipped, and always doing what the parts should do... Love my 12 speed and Ekar...
To bring another material in the bin: I have a stainless steel gravel bike, the Standert Erdgeschoss. I use it as a bike i travel with my van so i just swap wheelsets and use it as a roadbike to. With my road wheelset it rides really nicely, stiff yet comfortable and it is an eyecatcher among all the high end carbon bikes. It has similar geometry to my BMC Teammachine and i can't tell so much difference when riding if im honest.
I love my ti Engima Evade, on 28mm tyres it's so smooth. Really makes country rides a joy. Took it up Zoncolan last year, so it climbs nicely too, although can be springy.
Argh, you made me buy a Ti bike. Seriously. I've been thinking about it for months. Immediately after watching this I ordered one.
Custom Kish Road SL. Built in 2012. Love it!
Hi Alex, can you do a review of steel frames as they too come in different carbon content from different sources?
brilliant interview. no fluff
I have a Litespeed from 1997 (classic model) and a newer one, the 97 probably has 60-70 miles on it, still great
Love this video. More deep dives please. We love the nerdy stuff.
Ti is great for frames if the builder is smart enough to use it well.
It is good to hear one of the smart ones talking about it.
All Ti alloys have issues with fatigue and damage tolerance (a dent that is sharp is often fatal) compared to steel, but much better than Al or Comp. But then Ti can be repaired (I have been there).
I would much rather weld Ti than to weld Al. But it does take real skill.
It is funny because people can't tell the difference between my Ti frame and my stainless steel frame as they are both bare metal with a matt finish. And they will both last forever.
I have a titanium bike that is 23 years old….I am 6 ft 3, 230 lbs and it has been perfect….so comfortable as well. Also love no paint to scratch….always looks great.
Love titanium, just starting a new titanium build for next summer. There’s just something special about how it looks but more importantly for me the ride is smooth and so comfortable. Also the frame I purchased is high end, on rim brakes (my choice) and wasn’t expensive. It was £1000 below recommended list. With respect you can build a top spec bike if you are patient and know where to look for parts, Titanium or Carbon.
Yes my man!!! Titanium is great. The welding HAS to be done by EXPERTS, not tiny hands in a Chinese factory sticking carbon sheets. Great choice. 😊Well done!
when people do blond tests they can no longer feel these “smoothness” differences between bike materials
@@JackMott 250 miles in 18 hours on a BMC Team Machine compared to the same ride on a Van Nicholas Astraeus. I know the difference.
@@carlosdeno lots of people swear they can tell the difference, then can't in a blind test. Also people tend to compare frames while using different wheels and tires and pressures and saddles, and handlebars, and thus are just comparing tires mostly and components a bit. I have ridden a lot of bikes fast and a long way too, doesn't mean my perception is free from human foibles.
@@JackMott I’d love to witness the blind test, how many miles were ridden exactly? With respect I’m 60 years old, I own steel, stainless, titanium & carbon, if I had to keep one it would be the titanium. Each to their own, we’re all different personalities and our bodies are too.
I have Factor Ostro Vam and Lynsky r500, same bought 2nd hand and ofcourse i find the r500 smoother but the only reason I think is its overall flexibilty or in cycling indutry; compliance.
Thats just about it, but i still prefer Ti coz i dont need to worry too much
This was really in depth and very informative. In Germany we have these freaks of Falkenjagd who also produce high quality Ti bikes - the owner published also good videos but in German
I've accumulated a few Ti bikes over the years. I own three Lynskey (Chattanooga TN, USA) frames, from a 2009 R230 (sport/racing/touring), to a 2019 Pro Cross (Gravel), to a 2021 R500 (racing). I also have an older hardtail MTB and a track/fixed/single frame, both from Eugene Spicer (Evansville IN, USA). I would characterize all of these frames as being reasonably, if not inexpensively priced; aesthetically pleasing; easily maintained; reasonably lightweight; magically responsive; monstrously indestructible; and wonderously smooth. I've often characterized good-quality Ti frames literally as "heirloom quality" in that they could potentially NEVER wear out. I respectfully disagree with the final comment of the video, implying Ti frames are too pricey. Most Ti frames from Lynskey are far less expensive than most carbon frames I've encountered, and you generally only sacrifice ~500-600 grams in weight savings over a carbon frame that will cost you twice as much and be tremendously fragile by comparison.
I've had my titanium frame bike for over 20 years now and I can barely tell that the frame is that old just by looking at it. A few gentle passes with scotchbrite and most scratches and scuffs come right off. I fully expect it to outlive me barring a catastrophic accident. The components are showing their age but the frame is basically indestructible, at least with normal riding. As anyone who's ridden a Ti bike it has a fantastic ride feel, like lively rubber if that makes sense. The harmonics are fantastic. It just feels alive and responsive. Best bike-related decision I've ever made (except perhaps the new direct drive trainer I just bought). And it wasn't even a high-end brand name frame. I got it from a US-based outfit called Habanero that sources them from a Chinese aerospace manufacturer that does great work. I just couldn't justify paying two or three times as much for a well-known frame so I took my chances after doing a lot of research, and it turned out to be a really nice frame.
very good explanations
Thanks Alex , Tom and crew. Yessss , I am pining for a Moots !! But , of course , I can not afford one . I was an old guy , with no clue , and didn't know any better when I bought my bikes ..waaaaa I'd love to test ride one , though ....
I'd like to know how the tubes are drawn & how that differs from ALu & steel if at all
its a material that I would love to have an bike made of, its a shame that here in Brazil its a lot more expansive, furthermore, there isnt any frame builder here who works with, exactly because of the price of it, and import one, is kind of the cost doesn't good =( (paying double, some times triple of the original price to import one)
but its still my dream to have one
Yes, Litespeed classic Shimano Dura-Ace 9 speed groupset. Super Team 50mm wheels with Gator Skins 25. Love my Litespeed
1993 custom specced beauty built by Tom Kellogg of Breinigsville, PA. Sadly, both he and his Spectrum Cycles have since reached the age where it was time to retire. He would ride km after km with you on back roads and then build it, as the Brits say bespoke. He also built numerous track racing bikes for national and international class racers. Be prepared to wait for a few months -- you won't regret the required wait. It still looks as perfect as it did the day it arrived. Wish I could say the same.
I'm surprised how little is being said about cushioning effect of titanium frame. Road vibrations are being lower in titanium bikes than aluminium/steel or even carbon. I had some high end carbon frames and even them can't be compared or have elasticity of this material. Best pick for Audax riders. It took me soo long to discover this and for me its the biggest breakthrough that will actually save my ass and money over time....
For an everyday rider, i think its king. Its not going to be the lightest (thats carbon) but its super strong for its weight and it deals with vibration frequencies way better than steel or aluminum. So for your everyday riding, road or mt bike, if you can afford it, you wont be disappointed.
But if you needed raw speed or a triathlon bike, clearly you need to go carbon.
I've been riding top end titanium for more than two decades, alongside also owning many carbon, steel and alu bikes at various times. TBH I don't think that the difference in materials is nearly as noticeable as differences due to frame design (eg compact frames are more comfortable due to the spring in the longer seatpiost), tyres and tubes, handlebar and stem tubing bad materials etc. It isn't possible to isolate the type of ride just based on the frame material, there are too many other influences. I ride my ti bike because it is a great fit and the total package combines to meet my needs. Also because with carbon so ubiquitous it is fun to ride something different.
My next bike will be either a titanium or steel frame.
Already have a good aluminium and carbon frame so next would be one I don´t have.
I was expecting some marketing BS talk from somebody on the titanium hype train but was pleasantly surprised that it turned out to be one of the most informative videos/interviews on GCN, ever.
the fact that the material can last a lifetime just says to me that it's a good idea to save for a titanium bike and use it forever, as long as I can cycle. A great material to b proud of
I have an Enigma Etape with ultegra Di2 . However long lasting it may be , it’s not seeing the uk roads until they’re drier and unsalted. In the meantime, it’s an old winter bike of steel and rim brakes with sun tour friction gears 😅
I have a ti road bike and just purchased my first gravel bike and chose ti for it also. I do own an Orbea carbon bike,,,but I honestly prefer the ti feel,,,,maybe cause I'm just an older guy and am not looking to get faster .
Hey may know his stuff but that does not come across particularly well. Titanium's high mudulas of elasticity is a key reason for its appeal as, despite what was inferred, Ti is more robust in dealing with long term potential fatigue issues.................hence it's extensive use in the aerospace industry.
My van Nicholas Amazon is getting on a bit but still great for cross and general riding. I prefer steel bikes for road riding but the Ti floats over rough stuff better and probably the choice for gravel and cross.
anyone else notice how vague this was?.
I was interested to see what he was going to say.
Hammering a composite bicycle taught me why the most efficient jetliners use composite wings: the ability to tailor stiffness. A bicycle frame that flexes over bumps but the bottom bracket doesn't move sideways. A wing that can bend but not twist. Things you can't do with any isotropic metal.
Very interesting to learn about titanium bikes. I don't see them becoming main stream at all partly because of the high cost but also because of the limitations in how you can shape and design the bikes. I am sure there will always be people who will want titanium bikes, and be happy to pay for them, but I personally don't find them attractive at all and even if money was no object I don't think I would ever want a titanium bike.
What is unattractive? Since they can be painted like any other material, is it really just that most makers leave most or all the frame that bead-blasted gray? That can be fixed.
I’ve had my Titsnium Enigma Excel for the past three years and have found I am now totally impervious to all the videos about the latest frames and bikes. Can’t see myself ever buying another bike!
I've wanted a titanium bike for years. I no longer have the flexibility to "leg over" a bike so the only route I have to a lightish bike that I can ride is specialist builder.
You might have included a link to Tom's web site.
Alex, if you really want a Ti bike, you can get a great one new for the same as or less than (comparing MSRP/RRP anyway) every big name carbon fiber framed super bike GCN folks ride regularly. It'll likely be a bit heavier and less aero, but you don't buy Ti bikes to weight weenie and Ollie-aero the things.
Amongst other things, I ride a 20 year old Merlin Works CR (some on here might remember that brand and model) Very comfortable, light enough for me, and not the slightest suggestion of wear and tear (yet!)
I have two gravel bikes - one Ti and the other is aluminum. Both have carbon fiber handle bars, wheels and seat posts, as well as 47mm tires. They are like riding on clouds, but I did a lot of research on the geometries and think that means more than the frame material and components. That being said, under power, the AL bike "seems" to be more efficient. Cruising distances, I favor the Ti. For every day rides and taking a bike to an epic ride, it will be the Ti - because it's Ti.
Yes. Salsa A La Carte mtb , and a Titus gravel which has become my "go to " bike for almost every ride in the last year barring the MTB. It's weightier than my carbon Trek road bike but a lot more enjoyable to ride.
Nice & Thanks :)
I've owned a Merlin Agilis road bike for 23 years, 3.25 main tubes and 6.4 seat and chain stays. It will be the last road bike i own. It is comfortable, smooth, stiff where it needs to be and supple as well.
I love my titanium gravel bike and I'm tempted to build a ti climbing bike as well. Nothing looks hotter than a raw ti bike with carbon fork, cockpit, and 50mm carbon wheels!
I would like to get OnebyESU JFF Ti V2(Japanese titanium bike).
That' great bike!
Reginald Scot is a big fan of titanium. He’s the mechanic who once schooled Hambini on bearing removal.
If you want a titanium bike, pick one up used. There are several available in my area in the $900-1200 Canadian dollar range.
That's what I did
Merlin ExtraLight. Built in 1994 with Dura Ace. Switched to a Race Face triple crank when my knees got older and couldn’t push the gears anymore.
I still have it…..December 2023.
cheapest Ti bike i found is from decathlon for 3000€.
Jaan Kirsipuu rode a Titanium Decathalon.