Why Did Carmine Not Recognise Paulie? | The Sopranos Explained
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In The Sopranos, in the episode Eloise, season 4 episode 12, Paulie spots Carmine at a wedding and approaches him to pay his respects. But it’s clear just a few second sin that Carmine has no idea who Paulie is, the poor old guy looks very confused, and to pinpoint Paulie’s identity he asks if his father was run over by a trolley.
It’s a great moment in the show that serves to highlight how Johnny has been lying to Paulie about Carmine asking for him. Clearly, he doesn’t even know him, and after this Paulie gets embarrassed and literally takes a good long look at himself in the mirror, and goes back to kissing Tony’s ass, even murdering an old lady to steal her money, which he gives to Tony to rejuvenate the boss’s confidence in him. Before he meets Carmine, Paulie struts like he’s the Teflon Don, a cunning beast 10 steps ahead of everyone, but it goes back to Junior’s saying “Some people are so far behind in the race that they actually believe they're leading”
It’s a fantastic little subplot, but a question does arise - how could Carmine not know who Paulie was? As highlighted in the show, Paulie goes way back into the family, to Johnny Boy’s days, Tony’s father. He’s one of the most senior members of the family, and Carmine even knows guys like Ralph in the Sopranos crew, so how could he not know who Paulie was? Wouldn’t they have seen each other at weddings, funerals, meetings between the families? The two families have done business for years. Is this a plot hole? Is he just old and confused?
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Carmine did know who Ralph was and that was just Johnny Sack playing the Vice Versa Game he played on Paulie on Ralph because as we seen Carmine would've loved to steal Ralph/Espionage away from Tony and even replace Johnny with him on the Espionage Scam. I mean Carmine was willing to have Johnny Sacks his Concierge killed to save Ralph.
Look Johnny made Ralph a Great Earner seem unimportant in his family and Paulie a Average Earner at best seem important manipulating them both for his on gain.
@@mangacomicvisionarygenius9612 remember though. Ralphie was a Capo and only reason why he was important was the construction business + the Labor Unions. Paulie was a President I think In One of the unions + a seat at Barone Sanitation. That's it. All other businesses was on the street for Paulie.
I always wondered why a don was at a wedding for his house keepers daughter.
Of course Carmine knew who Paulie was. Protocols, and Carmine probably figured out that instant, whilst speaking, that Johnnie Sac heard about the Ginny joke through Paulie (and maybe even knew Paulie was sitting in the can on gun charges, and thought Sac was an idiot for feeling NJ out with Paulie). Both Sac and Tony's crew took a hit for Paulie's faux pas there.
Those guys in jersey where just a
glorified crew
If you pay close attention to the whole series, Paulie is never considered important enough by both the NY family and the feds.
I dont know about that. Paulie was at least a captain through the series he was also at one stage the Underboss of the Soprano crime family.
@@irishpride9867 If you go back and watch it all the way through there's a few times where comments are made about Paulie not really being a factor. Especially (spoiler alert) near the end when NY is discussing who to hit along with Tony and when Paulies name comes up they're all like nah. 🤣
@@markmac5943 yeah I know what your saying. NY only wanted to kill the Boss, Underboss and Conselieri at the end and Paulie was not any of these. He was however a former Underboss and at present most high ranking captain of the Soprano crime family. Carmine knew Paulie (he had to he was an under boss) but blanked him cause it was not the time or the place to be greated as a boss. Especially from someone who didnt at preasent hold a top top thier job. Carmine was old school. It's some greasball shit. I actually think at the end after Tony's death and Silvios coma that Paulie would actually be the de-facto boss of the Soprano family. Who else would it be??? Had to be important enough. He now runs a crime family.
@@irishpride9867 The new boss was patsy, the show hints this in the last episodes.
So it’s come to this. Instead of watching great series’ like the sopranos we watch clips that analyze the show. Mama Mia!
"When Ginny Sack goes camping the bears have to hide 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘪𝘳 food." Imagine if Johnny Sack found out about that joke?
or the time he walked into the Bing in the middle of everybody laughing at GiGi’s joke about two guys fucking her on separate ends of the state and still not meeting
Is it a joke if its true?
@@PolPotsPieHole Well, I don't think the bears actually hide their food when Ginny goes camping, so...
Jerseys a small state, she moves in, she could tip it over.
Great line!
Paulie is a survivor!
Outlived everyone from Johnny Boy’s crew and even the Tony Soprano era.
Like a roach
And watched everybody pass him in rank... pathetic
Because, in Hyman Roth’s words, “he’s small potatoes.” Thinks he’s every capo & boss’s best friend, but in the end, Sil tells him, “Paulie, you know you’re only as good as your last envelope.”
Security by obscurity Paulie survived because he was not considered a threat.
In surprised this crazy comment is still surviving
"Some people are so behind in the race that they actually think they are leading" Wisdom in those words, for all of us
Following this awkward incident, is there a scene later in the series that sees John and Paulie meet again? If so, SE and EP or link, please.
@@IllusionSector he can't do anything about Johnny, the guy was an underboss and if he complained to somebody, it'd confirm that he's been talking to John..
Yeah yeah that's cute
Carmine straight dissed Paulie by feigning ignorance of him. He absolutely “put him in his place” as you put it. Paulie had no right to go up to the boss of another family without a buffer to “introduce” him. Carmine knew exactly what he was doing.
But Johnny said Carmine thinks of the world of Paulie Ratface. 🤣
Made guys don’t introduce themselves
Carmine was a 🤡
He knew who Paulie was
Especially in public.
Carmine Sr. was at a wedding for his housekeepers' daughter. Not by any means a mobbed up wedding, and definitely not a place to discuss this thing of ours. No way he was breaking discipline Paulie strolled up on him and tried to talk shop, with no regard for his surroundings or reading of the room whatsoever.
You're a man, Phil. That's saying a lot these days.
Unlike your kid brudda Billy, whatever happened there...
Its because Paulie was an idiot. Johnny Sack played him like a fiddle and instead of coming up with some scheme to earn and get back into Tony's good graces, he smothers an old lady to death to steal her cash. Even Christopher was a smarter mobster than Paulie. Its amazing that he survived as long as he did but he always seemed to steer clear from harm - maybe he was never considered important enough to take out (we learn that NY think that at the end when they plan to take out the top three) and he probably couldn't give the feds much either, at least not much more than he gave Johnny Sack anyway.
@@the_local_bigamist Paulie survived by a combination of street smarts, his low status, and sheer luck. In the show alone, he narrowly averts death like 50 times. I shudder to think how many times before the show takes place. I think partly because no one took him seriously. And while he was stupid and easy to manipulate, this partly is why he survived and because they could easily get him to do the dirty work. Just like Ralphie he had a big mouth that didn't know when to shut up and this nearly got him whacked countless times and that's why I say he was really damn lucky.
@@wolf7el356 WHATEVER HAPPENED THERE?! I’ll tell you what happened, this piece of shit’s cousin put 6 bullets without any provocation what so ever
To be fair, that gardener came after Paulie with a chainsaw..he's got a right to defend himself, T
😂😂😂
Lmao
Oh yeah, those two guys
Jumped out of the tree, straight at him!
Those damn African Americans.
It was instantly obvious that Johnny was playing him the moment he said “He thinks the world of you also.”
Exactly, it also to me implies there is so tenuous history there. Maybe... In my imagination Paulie was around Carmine socially from time to time in the distant past.. Maybe had a few casual conversations at a wedding or something. Something that made Paulie believe Carmine would remember him and has some kind of opinion about him or Paulie thought his own reputation preceded him and of course Carmine would be thinking of Paulie or asking about Paulie, etc.
varicosevaynes : Not to Paulie it wasn't!
@@Bulldog_skin And Carmine probably thought he was just some random guy at the wedding. But I would imagine it being more of a situation when Carmine met with a guy from Jersey he was always off talking to somene like Johnny Boy, Junior or Tony while their soldiers were off to the side and he didn't bother to get their names.
@@joemckim1183it's a small world, even still he probably would've known some more long standing ones, especially considering how long he was boss, for decades
The actor playing Carmine, Frank Anthony Vallelonga -- aka, "Tony Lip" -- is the actual man who chauffeured around piano virtuoso Dr. Donald Shirley back in the early sixties in the South. He was played by Viggo Mortensen in the movie "Green Book," which chronicled the story of their lives together.
That is pretty fucking interesting. I don't think a lot of people know this. I certainly didn't and I watched both the show and the movie.
That is insane did not know that at all.
What a legend
Wow. Cool info
He also had a cameo in Goodfellas
Carmine thinks the world of him!
He asks about him
@@LucasNauan all the time!!!
@@LucasNauan he does ask about him. He asks who the hell he is. 😂
"Hes an interior decorator" , "he killed 16 checkslovicans"
His house looked like shit
Classic
"Johnny Sack" Sacrimoni was developing Paulie as an asset inside the Sopranos crew. Carmine, a boss of a NY family was unaware of Paulie Walnuts, no more than a soldier in a small, NJ crew.
Paulie may have been a captain but he got there not because of merit but seniority. He was still considered just a soldier who didn't have a strategic thought in his head.
Jonny sack lied about how often if ever he mention paulie to carmine
@FUKYU SUKUZ Paulie was brilliant on the streets though. You recall the scene where Tony brought him along to confront 5 guys and Paulie hit it out of the park. A fine soldier, terrible officer.
Well their crews (NY and NJ) had been interacting for at least 4 decades now, Carmine would've heard of him at least.
A *glorified* crew, historically speaking.
You could have simmed this question in just one sentence . He didn’t recognise Paulie because Paulie was being played by Jonny Sack. The end.
Agreed
Nailed it.
For real dude. I didn’t even finish this video
That's what I thought as soon as I saw the title. But I like their content so I decided to check it out.
"Simmed"?
“You’re father was run over by a trolley, right?” Wasn’t some goofy old man line-that was an insult as well as a “leave me alone, stupid.” This is wit and a wiser, more sophisticated response compared to Johnny Sack screaming at Christopher about being out of place and seemingly unable to read a room.
Johnny Sack wanted an excuse to storm out and stop negotiating, and he succeded.
Probably knew Paulie the same way Tony knew Matt Bevilacqua and Sean Gismonte lmao
U win the internet 🏆
He should’ve grabbed Paulie by the throat and asked him if he’s heard of wire taps just for walking up on him unannounced
Boom!
Nah, more like how Tony knew Brenden
But they were both Made men. What about that brotherhood?
Historically Carmine always said The Sopranos were not a family, they were nothing more than a Glorified Crew
In Cosa Nostra, even if you know someone is a made man, you need to be introduced by a third party. The third party needs to be another made man, who is vouching the legitimacy of both men being introduced. So whether or not "johnny told carmine about paulie", according to the rules of Cosa Nostra, Carmine should NOT recognize Pauly. And while that is the rule, I am not sure whether the show runners had that in mind.
They can say hi to each other right? As long as they don’t recognize their thing at all when they first meet. This 3rd party concept isn’t represented in movies and tv a lot. It seems important though. Sammy the bull talks about it a lot.
@@dannydemonic4799 Yes, he could have acknowledged him on a human level. Then there is the other technicality, that you never walk up to a Boss in public. It's a technical, intricate life, to say the least.
I'm glad someone brought this up so I didn't have to. You would think the narrator would know this.
@@lukezuzga6460 i think the narrator did mention the third party thing. It happened in sopranos but was never mentioned as a rule. All the intricate rules stuff is interesting. I’ve been very interested in finding more about the mafia today and they seem to be doing well just a lot more underground. That whole myth that the mafia is gone is absurd. I live in Boston and wonder about guys all the time. Just found out the genovese family have a crew in Springfield. I also like learning about all the families outside of north east. Pretty cool stuff!
@@codyjames715 ya walking up a boss in public is terrible. Didn’t even think of that one. Paulie should be an encyclopedia on mafia protocol too.
He probably thought so little of the New Jersey family he only recognized a couple people, tony, Silvio, and Ralph. Paulie being in the crew before all of them should of at least been familiar.
Paulie may have been with Johnny Boy in meetings with Carmine back in the day but he probably didn't bother to get Paulie's name or worry who he was. So they probably have met before, Carmine just doesn't remember it.
Sac tells Ralph straight up that Carmine doesn't know who he is.
@@frame-perfectadskip9159 my estimation of Ralph just fuckin plummeted
@@frame-perfectadskip9159 Which makes no sense bc only a few episodes later, Carmine is ready to kill his underboss because Ralph is so valuable to the esplanade project.
@@StuUngar Important to his pocket because Johnny said so, not necessarily a contradiction to he does not know who he is in a real way.
I started off thinking this video was going to analyze too much into their chance meeting but soon convinced that Carmine wanted nothing to do publicly with one of the 'farmers'. Great video- amazing two decades have passed since I first watched this show and I am still learning things about it.
It has not been two decades yet. The show ended in 2007.
Wasn't Pauli mostly muscle? Where as Ralphie for all his faults was often referred to as "A big earner," Ralphie was heavily involved in construction so shared the Esplanade with NY. Paulie may have been around forever but was mostly only ever consulted about killings and rarely about big picture issues.
That's why he'd never be boss, or atleast hold it long enough till Butch would roll over New Jersey. He was never a good earner, and he was nothing but an old muscle, and thr whole crew knew he's a whiny kissass that's why he'd never be respected, even as a boss. Ralphie was just a made guy even NY bosses recognized him as a top earner.
@@FatGouf Do you think that’s why Butch turned on Phil? His next move was going to be dismantling the Sopranos? Butch struck me as smart guy, and one who was all about making $. He sure seemed eager to help Phil go to war with NJ at first, only to turn on him at the last moment.
@@12ozmouse99 That's what he exactly did, took it as an opportunity when things got too heated up when Phil made taking down Jersey too persona. And with Carmine Jr stepping out, the whole NY was his for the taking. Its most likely he's the one who put the hit on Tony in the end scene, so either he dismantled Jersey or work with who's left, most likely with Patsy, since Paulie was only reputable within the family.
I think the feds looked at him as so low rent he wasn’t on their radar. They knew exactly who he was all those years. And not once was he ever in trouble with them.
He was a captain and he always kicked up to the boss, for years longer than most in mob
I really thought Tony was going to eliminate Paulie when they were deep sea fishing.
For a reason too. Paulie wanted to join with New York. & he would of. If carmine recognized him.
So did Paulie for a minute. lol
Paulie got lucky, Christopher didn't plus he had a wife and kid. Paulie had no family.
@@pastxmas so did furio.
He came close
😂😂😂😂 "and he lived through the 70s by the skin of his nuts when the columbos were going at it!" I love the way he added that in the same monotoneish voice.
Dooley noted
NO he did say 70's!
@@nathanielball365 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@nathanielball365lol i cant stand when people delete there post when there proven wrong 😂😂 i didn't even see the post youre responding to but obviously someone said "he didnt say the 70s" 😂
I like how you integrate their expressions and quotes in your analysis to put it in context, very allegorical!
The sacred and the propane.
You never had the makings of a varsity etc
He told Johnny Sac about the joke to get back at Ralph who was using Paulies incarceration as an excuse to not pay Paulies share of a job knowing he was unable to do anything about it in jail.
There really is no honour among thieves ehh
It's because Carmine is Paulie's real dad and he doesn't want to let on.
Na it was the governor of Maryland
Whoa imagine
It was Russ Figoli…..a cultured Italian, and not a gavone
"Also, who goes up to a mobster at a wedding and starts spilling his verbal diarrhea?"
Meet Paulie Walnuts and his own worst enemy, Paulie Walnuts' mouth.
I think Carmine at least recognized Paulie because he got dangerously specific when saying Johnny Sack's last name. Why would Carmine even ask Paulie which Johnny he's referring to unless Carmine was confident that Paulie was a "friend?" In my opinion, Carmine certainly knew that Paulie was one of Tony's captains, and it didn't help that Paulie rudely interrupted Carmine during an event that had nothing to do with business. I think Carmine was being passive aggressive and pretended not to know who Paulie was.
Carmine does say "What's your name, AGAIN?" Meaning he knows he's met Paulie before, but just can't remember his name. But you make a valid point. Carmine was smart and maybe he was just playing stupid to protect himself.
That's just an expression. It doesn't necessarily mean that they had met before.
@@MonarchPoolPlaster Yes, it is a polite way of saying of course, I remember you but your name escapes me at the moment when you really have no clue who the person is.
It means do I know u ?
He was very street smart
I appreciate your thoughts…ok, I’ll talk to you.
You pretty much covered all bases with this one, it'd be hard to find any other reason for Carmine's behavior toward Paulie and underscores how much Johnny Sack played the New Jersey mob. Protocol is absolute, especially with an old timer like Carmine. There was a documentary a while ago about the ten commandments of the mafia, found in a bolt hole of a Sicilian mafioso. One of the commandments was that no made guy could introduce himself to another made guy without an intermediary who knew BOTH made guys. Like you said, even if Carmine recognized Paulie, if he was never formally introduced, they would need an intermediary. The rest is pure Carmine boss actions, he doesn't regard the button men of his own family why would he acknowledge the button man of a lesser family. Michael Franzese said within any family there may be 15-20 made guys that are significant earners while the rest do the grunt work that allows the earners to strong arm their way through rackets. Bosses know who the earners are in a family, any family and Johnny knew that if Carmine suspected he could get Ralph to cross over, he would. The rest is also Paulie's lack of accomplishments in presenting himself as a "man of honor" by raising a family and showing stability. I've really added nothing new, just reiterating the excellent points you made in the clip lol. Well done.
“Ol fish lips” 🤣 😂
He didn’t even know Paulie was alive.... Johnny was just stringing him along.... i wouldn’t put it by Johnny to think ahead ... since paulie was so close to Tony maybe a future setup? At the end it’s always your friends that come to take you out
Pauli did have the funniest lines in the series. That bit in the forest about the interior decorator still makes me laugh out loud after watching it about 5 times.
"I shouldve fucked Dale Evans but I didnt."
Great episode!
Carmine has some balls to not know who the legendary, last man standing Peter Paul "Paulie Walnuts" Gualtieri is.
I absolutely agree that Carmine recognized Paulie (it's implied the two families have worked together for decades) but pretended like he didn't to throw in Paulie's face the utter disrespect he had for speaking to a boss out of turn like he did.
Carmine was a gangsters gangster He put it down so hard on John Sac with that Ralph thing . " yeah $ what else is there" great character stood out in every scene. If he knew peter paul or not doesn't matter, He is beneath him of no concern.
His ruling on the Ralph thing was something Paul Castellano would say, not "a gangster's gangster" move... Disrespecting someone's wife in Cosa Nostra will get you killed. Cosa Nostra is about money, but there are rules in regards to honor.
@@codyjames715 your knowledge of big Paul is way off HE was always $ 1st learn your mob history b4 you make uneducated comments .
the way he checked Tony with the Don doesn’t wear shorts line 🐐
@@usdjpy8929 Paul Castellano was always money first, yes. Paul was a Racketeer, not a gangster. Neil Dellacroce was a gangster. They are two different things.
@@codyjames715 sounds like over the last 2 weeks you read a book I had in 1990 . Learn some more its way better than your 1st comment 2weeks ago.
This is utterly amazing analysis and I didn't think of even half of these reasons. AMAZING THANK YOU! You've added so much to this scene for me today and for years to come!!!
get that egg salad out his mouth
Too many gherkins.
Too many Gherkins in the Egg Salad.
Paulie also reflects his mother’s behavior (which we later learn isn’t his biological mother, but actually aunt who still raised him) which plays into the theme of the show, same way Tony becomes like his mother as time goes on. When Paulie’s mom has a problem of not having friends in her retirement home where she lives, Paulie goes there to talk with some woman working there and she tells him that his mom is a tattletale and rats on others for every small infraction and that is why other girls don’t like her. Paulie is also a tattletale, he annoys everybody because he talks too much, but also was having secret meetings with John Sack and gave him information about Tony and his crew, most famously that mole joke which turned into a massive problem. Obviously Paulie was doing this thinking about his interest and how it would be a good thing for him to have good realtionship with NY, but of course we know he was played like a puppet by John who stroked Paulies ego and just let him do what he loves most; talking. Tony was right to be worried about him, Paulie’s big mouth already caused him problems in the past and I think it’s very plausible that Paulie could betray Tony in the end to NY, especially knowing Tony was seriously contemplating killing him
Oh man that's a great observation about his Mom/Aunt doing the same thing.
I think that Carmine genuinely didn't know who Paulie was. Mob protocol is that when members meet other members there is another member than knows both and introduces one to the other - so it's very likely that Paulie had assumed that Carmine had been hearing about him from Johnny Sac and broke protocol because Johnny Sac had been giving Paulie the impression that Carmine liked Paulie, which is why he felt comfortable breaking protocol.
Sil is with Tony when they have these meeting with NY not Paulie. I believe Carmine truly didn't know Paulie.
It's amazing how Paulie got to where he was both in longevity and rank without ever getting whacked. It's implied that Tony, fed up with him at one point, had actually considered taking him out himself !
Yeah he almost killed him on the boat
And should have. Possibly the beginning of the end for Tony.
@@furbabydaddy5604 Tony probably would've taken out Paulie if Beansie didn't talk him out of it.
Damn I love the way you break these joints down
I thought this was obvious just by watching the show 🥲 He didn’t recognize Paulie bcs he didn’t know him 🤣
There were 200 soldiers in Carmine's family...he probably didn't know every guy in his family.
I always thought that Carmine was just going senile at this point. Though, there isn't really much evidence of that after this scene.
nah, Johnny Sac was just lying to manipulate Paulie
NO, he was not going senile. He simply did not know who Paulie was.
He was flat out insulted that Paulie walked up to him in front of his family at a wedding and started talking business with out being introduced. So he insulted him back. "Who the fuck are you?" Pretty much it, if you ask me...
This guy! "Even this pigmie thing" 😂
If you want to save ten minutes, Johnny Sack was telling Paulie Carmine knew who he was to make Paulie feel special and respected by NY to play him for information about NJ
This is brilliant! I'm doing my yearly re-watch.
Great stuff mate, never really thought about that interaction other than he just did not know him. But good point about protocol and rank in the mafia, that is a thing indeed.
Carmine never said nothing even when he said something. Seems to me Carmine could have and should known Paulie, but didn’t want to be seen with a criminal, a criminal from New Jersey at that!
Can you imagine, you say hello to a soldier from a pygmy Jersey crew and the next day you're in jail?
Carmine seemed sincere in not recognising Paulie and offered up the name Johnny Sack which I guess he wouldn't do if he thought the feds were listening in. I also feel like, if he was putting it on, they would have given us a shot or expression that conveyed this a bit so I think the intent was to hammer home just how insignificant Paulie actually is outside of his own head. That said, I don't think this is long before Carmine has his stroke so it could be a reflection of his age or declining health. I think Paulie interprets it as the former though, hence his determination to overcompensate and realign himself with Tony who, he now realises, is his only real source of status in the world.
Thank you for not assuming we know every episode's name by heart, and including the season and episode number when you mention them.
Great analysis, I wondered the same thing on first viewing.
Johnny lied when he told Ralph that Carmine did not know who he was. Previously Carmine had mentioned how good Ralph was at running the Esplanade. Johnny lied to prevent Ralph from going directly to Carmine over his head. So do not take from the fact that Johnny told Ralph that Carmine did not know him that he also did not know Paulie. Johnny lied both times. He lied to Ralph that Carmine did not know him, and lied to Paulie that Carmine was very impressed with him.
Wouldn't it be hilarious if Carmine actually DID think the world of Paulie, he DID want to add him to their family and Sack wasn't lying but Carmine, being the careful boss that he is, simply pretended not to know Paulie because they were in public and he was afraid of wiretaps or the wrong people overhearing them or something? And then Paulie misconstrues that as him ACTUALLY not knowing who he is and flips back to Tony's side despite in reality Carmine wanting to guy in his family? That would be great.
Paulie is weak and a trader. He took sides with Johnny Sack against Tony... you’d think he’d atleast have a higher ranking. He’s basically just a soldier LOL.
He's been Capo since season 1
I like how you include quotes from the show. "No one knows what the future holds, my friend." These quotes make much more sense now. Good video
Carmine is old school. He knew who Paulie was. Paulie showed poor form and Carmine just decided to be Carmine about it
I loved paulie. He was a snake at times but thats the way people are when you live a life of crime. He was entertaining and Sirico played his character amazingly.
There's a reason people find Paulie to be a funny character: he was written that way. A joke, a fool, a comic relief, in the context of mob life.
He played the character amazingly because he was in mafia in real life aswel
Dude was a legit hardman..he wasnt acting
Because he's no one important enough for a Five Families boss to know. Johnny Sac was using him.
Brilliant analysis. Thank you!
yeah i think Carmine deliberately snubbed him to put him in his place. its unlikely that carmine had not seen or heard of Paulie before. The familiar way Paulie approached Carmine was totally inappropriate
Carmine "knew' of Ralph also.. you forgot.. He kept shut down Johnny S when he wanted to clip him.
Could you please rephrase that.
Ralph was a huge earner though .
@@toddpick8007 yes, of course.. that was obviously why
Here are the possible reasons IMHO:
1. Carmine really didn't know who Paulie was. Many times throughout the series Carmine is portrayed as aloof and often somewhat confused (this is portrayed so brilliantly by Tony Lipp). He's de facto boss who hasn't been overthrown because his capos and their crews are happy and earning. Forget Paulie, a member of a family in Jersey that he considers a "glorified crew", its possible that Carmine doesn't even remember soldiers within his own family.
2. Carmine absolutely recognized Paulie. Johnny Sack had kept Carmine up to snuff as to the information he had gathered from Paulie and Carmine knew how this had financially benefitted New York in a big way. Hearing of Paulie's greed and money hungry nature throughout the years, Carmine decided to pretend that he didn't know Paulie, as the former assumed that the latter would approach him for some type of favor/repayment. Carmine decided the best way to not have to deal with Paulie was act like he didn't even know who he was.
3. Carmine recognized Paulie but simply didn't feel like exchanging pleasantries and having a conversation. This happens to me and I'm a third of Carmine's age. You see someone you haven't seen in a very long time and for whatever reason you just don't feel like talking to them so you just act like you don't recognize them.
IMO of course Carmine recognized Paulie. He had been a soldier in a family Carmine regularly did business with for over 30 years.
Then you remember the Columbo Wars. As @cineranter mentions in this video Paulie acknowledges just how lucky he was to escape that with his life. Surely Carmine was in the thick of things during all of that.
My answer is 2. You don't become and stay Boss of one of the five families while avoiding (long if any) stints in the can being so clueless that you have no idea who a capo in a neighboring family you often do business with.
No way Carmine didn't know Paulie or at least heard of him. Carmine wasn't always old or even the boss back in the day. Except that Paulie works out and watches what he eats, he and Carmine are in the same age bracket. So he is has early onset, or was just being cautiously indignant in not recognizing Paulie out of turn, putting him in his place.
Great Video. Your points were right on the mark.👍👍👍
Let me say a couple of three things here.
1) No matter how much reverence the actors, critics and fans have for the Sopranos, I somehow doubt that the writers or David Chase would anticipate this level of scrutiny over this scene or even these scenes in general. That being said, nothing happens here that is significant enough to be a plot hole in my opinion.
2) Carmine (and the actor playing him) were playing this scene straight. He didn't recognise him. And he seemed confused, not irritated by the whole interaction. The scene for me was meant to convey that Johnny Sack was the one really running things and that Carmine was senile. For me that was the purpose of the scene from the NY perspective. From the NJ perspective, it's that Paulie was naive, blinkered, petty and got played. The scene in the toilet afterwards is the impact scene. Depending on how you feel about Paulie it's suppose to engender sympathy, pity or contempt for the character.
For me, mainly pity but I was nowhere near hard enough on these characters.
Yes, my thoughts precisely. The comical bit is the self-preservation mode Paulie goes into after this scene. Remember the Sun Tzu (Sun TooZoo) bit at the Bada Bing and how Tony put him on to reading the Art of War and all the ass kissing after that. To me it’s the comical aftermath that’s more entertaining than the realization that he’s been deceived by Johnny Sac.
I personally never got the impression that the scene was meant to convey senility in Carmine, but agree 100% that it shows Johnny's scheming and keeping Carmine out of the loop of everything that's going on.
When Carmine asked Paulie If his father got run over by a trolley, I sprayed my Diet Coke across the room. I just thought it was totally hilarious! Carmine Sr. was one of my favorites on the show, I just loved watching this guy act. The most underrated Sopranos cast member in my opinion. And no, I don’t think Carmine was faking it when he didn’t know Paulie.
Good point, I think you got it right,,in fact I'm watching all your videos as a crash course before I rewatch the entire series once again, but this time I'll be more knowledgeable.,, thank you Sir.
Carmine didn't recognize him because Johnny Sack was BS'ing Pauly. He never really brought Pauly up to Carmine the way he was telling Pauly that he was
I thought silvio was in critical condition when he got shot. All these years I have been wrong.
You were right. he never died
he recovered quickly and went back on tour with the real Boss... Bruce Springsteen
He would’ve just had a RICO indictment waiting for him when/if he recovered thanks to Carlo.
Carmine was in charge of a large family in NYC with about 200 made guys and probably like 15 to 20 Captains. Plus he probably had dealings with the other 4 family bosses in NY, union people, as well as Tony.
Johnny Sack was kind of the liaison for their dealings and Construction projects with North Jersey and knew more of the players in NJ. Carmine likely only knew Junior, Tony and Sylvio and maybe Chris because he brought him with sometimes to sitdowns. And eventually Ralph because of the Esplanade Construction project which was highly important and a gold mine for both families. And before the Esplanade Johnny Sack told Ralph that Carmine "doesn't know who you are" when Ralph and Tony were feuding in mid season 3 and he inquired to Johnny about changing families.
Pauly was a longtime Mob guy but was really just a knock around soldier until Tony made him Captain and let him take over his old crew.
I would bet Carmine maybe didn't know some of Tony's other captains very well or at all either. The Lupertazzi Family had a lot going on and their dealings with the North Jersey family was only a portion of it. He was likely only familiar with the key players .
It’s probably already been said but the reason Carmine Sr didn’t recognize recognize Pauline was because Jonnie sac was basically playing Paulie for info. Paulie sought recognition and fell right into sacs trap of placating. So when he sees carmine at the party or whatever it was carmine doesn’t recognize him because he never really thought about him too much. And that scene was brilliantly acted by tony Sirico as you could see in his eyes and face that jonnie sac played him.
I thought this was more about not acknowledging people who arent formally introduced through the proper channells..for instance a made man doesnt just approach another made man..a third made man known to both must be there to introduce.
Uncle junior pulled the same stunt when jackie jr. Spoke to him
Except Jackie Jr wasn’t a made man
@@tommyphil4713 even still its not about being a made man but a boss vs
A made man
If Johnny Sack would have been serious about what he said, Carmine would have been to greedy to care. Though that says more about Paulie's ego(beliving all the bs Sack told him).
If they haven’t been formally introduced as made men, by a third made member of la cosa Nostra; then carmine is 100% right to not acknowledge Paulie & is sticking to the rules. You cannot acknowledge someone as a made guy, unless you have been formally introduced. Even if you know that person is made.
I think the analysis shows that it works just as well either way: a) Carmine really didn't know who Paulie was, or, b) feigned ignorance to protect himself AND rebuke street-guy Paulie for just waltzing up and initiating contact with a Boss. The ambiguity complements and heightens the subtext of Mob Life as depicted on The Sopranos: you're never, ever, really 100% sure of anything, and it's the thing you THINK you know, but don't, that gets you whacked.
I am always surprised that when people discuss the ending of Sopranos, and who was responsible, Paulie is never mentioned as being involved. He was always scheming behind the scenes, showing contempt for Tony and others, and was very unconcerned during the final war and even shrugged off Tony's promotion offer. That scene with him sunning himself at the end symbolizes it's Paulie's "day in the sun."
When the Tony B situation was going on, Paulie was concerned he might be a target because he's close to Tony. But at the end, when he comes to help Tony pack up to go into hiding, he is joking and carefree. He has absolutely no worries about being a target. Why? Because the scheming sob nested himself a safe position.
Paulie just seems to skate under all suspicion even by fans.
It was hinted at multiple times in the show that Paulie would snitch on anyone ir throw anyone under the bus if it meant he could survive or elevate his own position. Tony keeping him around was ironic because he knew Paulie told about the joke, hated Paulie because of how annoying he was, and Paulie many times shorted his envelope. Yet Tony goes against his own gut convinces himself he's not a rat and gets whacked for it.
I believe the only reason Paulie accepted the job from Tony is that he and patsy had already made plans with butch to off Phil and Tony and if Tony gave patsy the job he might have been comfortable enough with the money he was making to not go through with it, even if he did hate Tony for killing his brother.
I also think at the end the conversation about the cat looking at a rat in the wall is describing both Chris and Paulie.
Paulie for turning on his boss, but also Chrissy for snitching to the fbi.
I think the last scene we see Chris in before he's killed, he is talking to jt about how disillusioned he is with everything and could bring everything down, he he's Tony for what he's done to him and how he's treated him and regrets the death of Adriana he also has a baby and wife to protect now. He kills jt and stumbles drunk into the hotel surrounded with people who would have heard the gunshot and called the police and his prints would have been in the hotel most likely even though he wiped the door sloppily.
The next time you see him, he has a cleaver hat on and is all jittery at an important meet between Phil and Tony and when he hear incriminating information acts strange and looks out to the water. It was already known Chris did not wear hats, only did once in season 1and in season 4 they used hats to hide wires that were never caught so it's a known trick. I believe he was caught up on a murder charge or possibly coke because he had it in his system during autopsy and turned informant, and by Tony killing him he inadvertently kept himself out of jail a bit longer untill Carlo flipped for his own dislike and disillusion with Tony's leadership.
Chris also could have relapsed because of being caught and used it to cope with what he had to do.
Probably because Carmine views the Soprano family as a glorified crew, and he has no respect for them whatsoever.
Charles swab over here
I get the itch to watch the Sopranos from beginning to end every time I watch vids like this.
The DiMeo crime family (which Tony runs) is just a small mafia outfit in New Jersey, the Lupertazzi crime family (based loosely on the real life Gambino family) are one of the 5 families of New York. Carmine as well as Phil Leotardo both make comments diminishing the existing or importance of New Jersey within the mob with Carmine calling them nothing but a glorified crew, so it’s evident they don’t take them all that seriously. Paulie being a character who often flys under the radar to outside entities looking at Tony and crew it’s not surprising one of the bosses of New York wouldn’t be aware of him.
Irl connected guys aren’t supposed to recognize one another in public
please make a video exploring exactly how long Phil Leotardo was hiding in that closet
20 fuckin' years, I heard
Season 6 doesn't count.
Real Sopranos fans donate those DVD's to the dumpster.
@Ben N ok
@@Da_Benski anyone who says someone who likes a part of a show that isn't normally liked isn't a "real fan" is sad. Who cares if someone else likes a part you don't, it literally has no affect on you unless you let it. Get over yourself and realize you aren't the only real person with opinions
@@tonyawwwno3364 Did you really just get Triggered by a joke made weeks ago?
You should really stay off the internet and give the virtue signaling a rest.
Just subscribed my friend! A superb observation with many points made from different angles.
I think it’s like what you said at the end. He obviously knew who he was but he didn’t want to lower himself and acknowledge him and also what if he was wearing a wire?!?
Johnny Saks was trying to use Paulie for info and to get him to turn on Tony.
The short answer is: They wrote the episode that way, they wanted to amp up Pauli’s realization that Johnny Sack had been stringing him along.
Not even close to an answer
@@DrJ-hx7wv - It was a TV show, simpleton.
That's an easy one, John was leading Paulie on. Paulie was a great source of intel for John, so by telling Paulie that Carmine knows of his exploits and is keeping an eye on him is John stroking his ego. Above the tough guy persona Paulie, like most of the main characters, is very self-conscious about his status and respect.
Paulie knows those who rise high fall the furthest. His ballsack skin is still intact despite all those above him ending up with the fishes. It may at times wrangle with him but his position is the result of a long term survival strategy. He never had to resort to a cup of pencils.
Carmine definitely playing dumb. He's with his wife and family at a big party,
he doesn't want to "talk business at the dinner table". Or else BADA BING! Blood all over his Ivy League suit.
Bravo, Bravo. 👏 👏 👏
Rule is your not supposed to talk to another made man without first being introduced, let alone a boss of another family
I would say that was the reason, also Carmine insulating himself
How can that be the reason ,when they were both present at Chris' induction party ?
@@cristristam9054 you can’t speak out of turn or the pecking order
Got to wonder how Paulie ever got made. Maybe he used to have fuller envelopes.
He had the best surprised/startled expression ever.
“Carmine’s not here”?
He's gone?
Paulie was still a low earning soldier in his mid 50's, he only rose up because of his association with Tony. Tony's father even bypassed him and made Tony capo of his crew because he knew Paulie wasnt up for the job
It’s not clear Johnny Boy had died by the time Tony S started to run his own crew. Remember Tony was part of Jackie Aprile’s crew for a bit and answered to him. I think it was when Jackie Aprile became acting boss that Tony formally created his own crew as a capo regime.
@@nobad6134 the show says that he took over his fathers crew after he died from emphysema according to johnny boy's wishes. Paulie, Big Pussy and the rest followed Tony
I think having Johnny speak for Carmine at meetings with Tony is more about insulation. Technically Tony can never say that Carmine made any agreements with him.
Really like your take on the protocol and Carmine pretending to not know Paulie! That's now my take on this.
Where Carmine in the new movie?
I always thought that Paulie's incarceration was a weak point...in a show that was really never weak. 1 minute he's being chased, the next minute he's in an orange jumpsuit for an open ended period of time. No arrest. No trial. It always felt oddly abrupt to me.
The actor had a serious back problem and missed half of the season to treat it. They shoehorned the incarnation in to explain his absence
@Hyper jones I can explain that too. David Chase wanted to end the show in 5 seasons but it was so popular HBO paid him a boatload of money add on an extra almost two seasons. Hence we get Vito and AJ’s suicidal storyline to stretch it out
I think paulie knew that carmine wouldnt know him more than just seeing him around from time to time if johnny sac hadnt been talking about him so when carmine acted like he realized Johnny hadnt been telling carmine anything