Overview of 2004-2006 Pistons Defense
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- čas přidán 13. 09. 2017
- A rough draft overviewing the 2004-2006 Pistons' defensive strategies and the differences between Larry Brown's man-to-man defensive scheme compared to Flip Saunders' zone-oriented defenses.
Under Larry Brown's man-to-man scheme, the 2004 Pistons produced the best defense in NBA history.
- After acquiring Rasheed Wallace, the 2004 Pistons allowed 79.7 ppg for the rest of the season and 2004 Playoffs (49 games). The lowest ppg allowed for an overall season in the shot-clock era is 83.4 ppg by the 1999 Hawks.
- The 2004 Pistons allowed 78.9 ppg for 26 regular season games post-Rasheed trade
- The 2004 Pistons allowed 80.7 ppg for 23 playoff games
- The 2004 Pistons allowed 78.6 ppg in regulation in the playoffs
- The 2004 Pistons never allowed 100 points in the 26 regular season games post-Rasheed trade
- The 2004 Pistons never allowed 95 points in regulation in the playoffs
2004 Pistons' Shot-Clock era Playoff Defensive Records
- Allowed under 90 points in 18 playoff games (NBA record)
- Allowed under 80 points in 11 playoff games (NBA record)
- Allowed under 70 points in 6 playoff games (NBA record)
- One of 2 teams (1998 Bulls) to allow under 60 points in a playoff game
- Allowed under 45% FG in 20 playoff games (Tied-NBA record, 2003 Spurs)
- Allowed under 40% FG in 12 playoff games (NBA record)
- Allowed under 35% FG in 5 playoff games (Tied-NBA record, 1999 Knicks)
- Allowed under 30% FG in 2 playoff games (Tied-NBA record, 1999 Knicks)
The 2004 Pistons also have Playoff defensive records for
Least PPG Allowed in any Playoff run of any length
(Shot-Clock Era, 1955-Present)
2004 Pistons allowed 80.696 PPG (1856 points / 23 games)
2000 Heat allowed 80.700 PPG (807 points / 10 games)
2000 Heat allowed the 2nd-least PPG in any shot-clock era Playoff run
In regulation (excluding OT periods)
2004 Pistons allowed 78.6 PPG for the Playoffs
2000 Heat allowed 79.9 PPG for the Playoffs
Lowest DRTG in a Post-1st Round Playoff run (1974-Present)
2004 Pistons had a 92.0 DRTG in the Playoffs
Basketball-Reference does not include Pre-1974 Playoff DRTGs, not that I am aware of, but it is likely that a 1960s team would hold this record, since Russell's Celtics had several regular seasons of 83-91 DRTG.
But from 1974-present and in the 3-point era (1980-present) the 2004 Pistons hold this record.
2000 Spurs had a 91.4 Playoff DRTG, but only played 4 games against the Suns with an injured Jason Kidd missing all but 1 game.
The 2004 and 2005 Pistons also forced Jason Kidd, Kobe Bryant, and Tim Duncan into the worst offensive series of their primes in their respective series matchups.
Jason Kidd shot 28.4% FG in the 2004 ECSF. The 2011 WCSF against the Lakers is the only time Kidd shot a worse FG% in a series, and he was 38 years of age.
Kobe Bryant in the 2004 Finals had 22.6 PPG - 2.8 RPG - 4.4 APG - 3.6 TOpg on 38% FG. This is perhaps the worst series of Kobe's prime.
Tim Duncan in the 2005 Finals shot 41.9% FG. The 2016 WCSF against the Thunder is the only time Duncan shot a worse FG% in a series. That was the very last series of Duncan's career, and he was 40 years of age.
Against Flip Saunders' zone defense, however, Dwyane Wade had his best shooting series, with the only 60%+ FG series of his career. Against Larry Brown's man-to-man defense, Wade shot 46% through 4 games pre-rib injury. This was also the only time Shaquille O'Neal outrebounded Ben Wallace in a playoff series, after Ben Wallace out rebounded him within the Pistons' man-to-man scheme in the 2004 Finals and 2005 ECF.
Sources for all quotes used in this video
- 2004pistons.blogspot.com
Song used
- Los Pistoleros (Instrumental)
- • Los Pistoleros - Jonat...
Credit to the following channels for video footage
- Dzhiger Dzhigerov
- gearmast3r
- KarlMalowned32
- mike poole
- NBA in 10 Minutes
- Nezir Genc
- PurpleScoutCookies
- Rare Air
- Ryan Van Dusen
- spursfan746
- thegrandkenyon
Sagging Man-to-Man Defense, like the defense used by Larry Brown Pistons, is not a zone or illegal defense
- • Sagging Man-to-Man is ...
Abridged sections of this video
1. Pistons' Man to Man Defense in 2004 and 2005 Playoffs
- • Larry Brown Pistons Ma...
2. Wade Schooling 2006 Pistons' Zone Defense
- • Dwyane Wade Schools 20... - Sport
There is some information I wish I knew about earlier and would have added to the section at 50:10 of this video emphasizing the decline in the Pistons' rebounding after become a zone defense under Flip Saunders as opposed to Larry Brown's man-to-man scheme.
"I think it's important we're a great man-to-man team, and rebounding team, because I think if you do those things, you can do anything defensively. I don't like zones because I think it's a sign of weakness for us, and I worry about rebounding out of zones."
*- Philadelphia Inquirer, 2001*
The 2004 and 2005 Pistons under Brown's man-to-man scheme
- outrebounded 7 of their 8 playoff opponents
- the lone exception was the 2005 Spurs
The 2006 Pistons under Saunders' zone scheme
- were outrebounded by 2 of their 3 playoff opponents
- the Cavaliers and Heat
Larry Brown's Pistons
- averaged at least 40.9 RPG in all 8 of their playoff series
The 2006 Pistons, even with Ben Wallace
- only averaged 36 RPG in the 2006 ECF
With Ben Wallace gone and under Saunders' zone scheme
The 2007 and 2008 Pistons
- were tied or outrebounded by 4 of their 6 playoff opponents
- tied the 2007 Magic at 161 rebounds
- outrebounded by the 2007 Cavs, 2008 Magic, and 2008 Celtics.
- averaged under 39 RPG in 4 of 6 playoff series
- averaged under 39 RPG in all 3 series of the 2008 Playoffs
- had an abysmally low 31.8 RPG against the 2008 Celtics
Larry Brown's Pistons
- ranked 2nd and 6th of 16 teams in RPG for the 2004 and 2005 Playoffs, respectively
Flip Saunders' Pistons
- ranked 9th, 9th, and 16th of 16 teams in RPG for the 2006, 2007, and 2008 Playoffs, respectively
Larry Brown was incredibly accurate in predicting the lack of rebounding that would be present within a zone defense.
After becoming a zone-oriented defense post-Larry Brown, the 2006 Pistons also allowed opponents to shoot at least 55% FG in 5 Playoff games.
The only team to allow more 55% FG games from opponents in one Playoff run is the 1985 Nuggets with 6.
www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tgl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=season&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=Y&team_seed_cmp=eq&opp_seed_cmp=eq&year_min=1947&year_max=2018&is_range=N&game_num_type=team&c1stat=opp_fg_pct&c1comp=gt&c1val=55&order_by=pts
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*2004 Pistons' Shot-Clock Era Playoff Defensive Records UPDATED*
Allowed under 90 points in 18 playoff games
Allowed under 85 points in 16 playoff games
Allowed under 80 points in 11 playoff games
Allowed under 75 points in 6 playoff games
Allowed under 70 points in 6 playoff games
Allowed 65 or less points in 3 playoff games
One of 2 teams (1998 Bulls) to allow under 60 points in a playoff game
Allowed under 40% FG in 12 playoff games
Allowed under 35% FG in 5 playoff games (Tied-NBA record, 1999 Knicks)
Allowed under 30% FG in 2 playoff games (Tied-NBA record, 1999 Knicks)
Least PPG allowed in a shot-clock era Playoff run of any length
- The 2004 Pistons allowed 80.696 PPG
- slightly lower than the 2000 Heat at 80.700 PPG allowed
Excluding Overtime periods
- the 2004 Pistons allowed 78.6 PPG for the Playoffs in regulation
- compared to 79.9 PPG allowed for the 2000 Heat
The 2004 Pistons had a 92.0 DRTG in the Playoffs
- This is the lowest DRTG any team has had in a Post-1st Round Playoff run in the 3-point era (1980-present)
- The 2000 Spurs had a 91.4 DRTG, but this was in a 1st Round loss of only 4 games
The 2005 Pistons also allowed the least PPG in a post-2004 rule changes Playoff run of any length at 85.6 PPG allowed.
They didn't play zone, but their defense can not be attributed to man to man. The help D on that team was legendary.
They knew when to help.
Years ahead of your time. Rasheed just l said this on his pod literally a few days ago
We need a team like this in the NBA right now.
Game is different these days. Shooting is much better, bigs much quicker. Still, basics apply.
maharajahdann the basics don’t apply, no post game, terrible boxing out, transition defense doesn’t exist, they run much fewer set plays, you run up the court and look for a man “open” on the perimeter and hope they hit that 1/3 probability 3 pt shot
The Clippers
Imagine if they get Kawhi that would be it
@@darnellkirkland784 predicted the future lol
Larry’s defense was the NBA version of Dean Smith’s 20 Series within the multiple system…
21 Half Court Man To Man
22 3/4 Court Man To Man
23 Full Court Man To Man
24 Sagging Man To Man
My favorite basketball team of all time. June 15, 2004 was the greatest bball day ever for me.
Larry Brown leaving and losing our entire bench after that 2004 Championship hurt us badly along with not drafting Carmello... All Dumars fault
Yeah, we lost Okur, Williamson and Mike James. We got Dice but that was the only bench I remember being real good next to Hunter.
Dumas got us there 2 though.
I’m glad you did not get Melo because I am a Spurs fan. I think that was one thing missing from that team a primer scorer.
This a masterpiece of a breakdown
Best Defensive NBA franchises I remember off top 04 Pistons, 96 Bulls, 08 Celtics, 04-05 Pacers, Every Spurs team and Grizzlies
While Flip Saunders was a great coach, I feel like he was the wrong fit for Detroit. Detroit wanted to get better offensively, and Flip did help them really improve in that area, but it came at the expense of their defense. Their defense was clearly their strength and would always be better than their offense, even on their best offensive day. Never really understood why they abandoned that.
Who knows whether they would have beaten Wade in '06 had Larry still been the coach, but I do feel they would have beaten LeBron in '07 with Larry at the helm (or a coach with the same philosophy).
Man living in Detroit during this time, this team was special and the defense is unreal
My favorite basketball team ever. This was such a fun time. I was overwhelmed with happiness when we won.
This is awesome, truly amazing. Great work!
Wow, this is really fantastic. I appreciate all the work you put into this video!
Great video, thanks!
I appreciate you for this.
Incredible video
Sources for all quotes used in this video
- 2004pistons.blogspot.com
Song used
- Los Pistoleros (Instrumental)
- czcams.com/video/bpTtgd1dSac/video.html
Credit to the following channels for video footage
- Dzhiger Dzhigerov
- gearmast3r
- KarlMalowned32
- mike poole
- NBA in 10 Minutes
- Nezir Genc
- PurpleScoutCookies
- Rare Air
- Ryan Van Dusen
- spursfan746
- thegrandkenyon
Abridged sections of this video
1. Pistons' Man to Man Defense in 2004 and 2005 Playoffs
- czcams.com/video/-2q1HG_4WLc/video.html
2. Wade Exposing Problems of the 2006 Pistons' Zone Defense
- czcams.com/video/bkBpKyJHzEI/video.html
Nobody Touches Jordan I'm only 7 minutes in and I'm already impressed. 'every time we talk about zone, I think every team we play against is going to make every jumpshot' *GOLDEN* and couldn't say it any better than Larry Brown. Great stuff man
Damn, and at 8:57 - 9:39 nothing but pure facts.........
I agree LeBron isnt close to Jordan but Steph is imo
Nobody Touches Jordan I have a question.
I keep hearing about LBJ's opponents(finals matchups) having a higher efficiency *Net rating* than the teams jordan faced.
What exactly does this even mean (Net efficiency) & how do you look up these 'net efficiency ratings'?
I want to make sure they're not making up bs.
I'm not sure how to look up teams' net efficiency, but I think the net efficiency they are referring to is the same as individual player efficiency, just applied to the team as a whole.
(PTS + REB + AST + STL + BLK − Missed FG − Missed FT − TO) / GP
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficiency_(basketball)
I don't think it means that much. Just because team A outperformed their opponents by a certain amount prior to the Finals compared to team B doesn't necessarily mean they were a better team, they could have just faced easier teams prior to the Finals or had favorable matchups.
and secondly, Jordan's Finals opponents' net efficiency is going to take a hit because they lost to the Bulls every time.
I'm not a big fan of SRS, but it is supposed to take into account "average point differential and strength of schedule." According to SRS Jordan had much harder roads to the title than LeBron did
scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22042071_155412281711288_7132532597565264182_o.png?oh=8c070b5d5cf2145c0eefba69d40e7509&oe=5A741D94
This list was made in 2015.
2016 Cavs would be 7th on this list, lower than the 1997 Bulls' top 3 rank.
2017 Warriors would be 19th.
Jordan's Bulls have 4 title runs in the top 15 collective opponent SRS compared to 1 for LeBron. 2013 Heat is in the bottom 3 easiest roads to the title in the 4-round format according to SRS.
It's not a perfect stat at all, the 1971 Bucks have the highest SRS of all-time, but you can still cite this as a counterargument to the net rating argument.
This is not included in the chart, but LeBron's highest opponent SRS in non-title runs would still be lower than Jordan's top 2 opponent SRS in title runs (1997 and 1993).
Collective playoff opponent SRS
2007 Cavs - 10.24
2011 Heat - 16.77
2014 Heat - 9.17
2015 Cavs - 16.90
2017 Cavs - 16.61
The 2007 Cavs and 2014 Heat opponent SRS would be worse than all but 1 of Jordan's title runs (1991). 2013 Heat's title is weaker than any of Jordan's
This needs more views
Di u have more 2004 pistons defense videos??? I really want to see that talented defensive team
one of the most underrated teams, from the standpoint that they did not have that one selfish superstar(eg. kobe, lebron) to rely on. total team basketball from start to finish
Absolutely, great team
Really well put together video. Great use of quotes, stats, and video footage to complement one another. I just have one question. In the RiggedBA's illegal defense video he showed a play where Rip Hamilton zoned between Kobe and the basket while he shot a baseline jumper over Rasheed and Prince in the 2004 Finals. What would your response be if someone tried to claim that the Pistons ran zone in spite of all the stuff you have in this video?
I know what play you are referring to, you're talking about the first FG that Kobe made in Game 3 of the 2004 Finals. That play was not Rip Hamilton zoning between Kobe and the basket like the clips I showed in this video of the Pistons against LeBron in the 2006 ECSF. Rip Hamilton was simply crossing the paint to double/triple Kobe on his drive to the basket, Kobe just pulled up before Rip could get to him.
I would have included this play in the beginning when I was showing the Pistons' strategy of doubling/tripling perimeter opponents on their drives, but I correctly guessed that someone such as yourself would question if that was a zone or man-to-man play, so I excluded it to avoid confusion.
The RBA played a clever editing trick where he paused the moment Rip Hamilton was crossing the paint to give off the false impression that Rip was standing in between the paint and the sideline for an extended stretch, like in a zone, but that's not what happened.
If you watch the full clip unedited you can clearly see it was just a double/triple team that simply didn't get to Kobe before he got the jumper off.
czcams.com/video/Ic6GsITKM_4/video.html
Here is a play of Tree Rollins and the Cavs doing the same thing to Jordan in the 1989/90 season during his 69 point game. The only difference is that Rollins crossed the paint from the opposite bottom corner whereas Rip came over from the opposite top corner.
czcams.com/video/unpVgfDL8j0/video.html
There was nothing about this play that was zone-related or illegal even under the technical definition of illegal defense (even thought it was often bypassed). Simple man-to-man help defense.
thanks. I had a feeling it wasn't really zone defense but I wasn't sure. Now that I saw both of those plays unedited it makes way more sense.
Fantastic Vid. When is you're next video
oh and do you think you would be interested in doing a video on the 2008-2012 Celtics defense sometime down the road?
Even if enough footage was available, I don't see any point in doing a video on the Celtics Big 3 defense. I don't see how they are one of the best defenses of all-time when they weren't even the best playoff defense in the league during any of their playoff runs together. There is no comparison between the 2002-2006 Pistons who were the best playoff PPG defense every year for 5 straight years (never been matched, next-closest is 3 consecutive years) and the 2008-2012 Celtics who never had the best playoff defense in PPG, DRTG or OPP FG% in any of their 5 years together.
In 2008 the Cavs had the best playoff defense in PPG and DRTG, mainly due to adding Ben Wallace as shown in the end of this video. In 2009 Garnett was injured, and the Celtics were one of the worst playoff defenses that year. In 2010 the Magic with Dwight Howard had the best playoff defense in PPG, DRTG, and OPP FG%.
In 2011 the Celtics defense was mediocre in the playoffs. 6th of 16 in PPG allowed amongst all playoff teams and 5th of 8 amongst teams that passed the 1st round. In 2012 the Celtics were 4th of 16 in PPG allowed and 2nd of 8 amongst post-1st round teams after the Sixers. Avery Bradley was also injured during the middle of the ECSF after being the Celtics starting SG for the playoffs and missed the entire ECF, so that also hurt their defense.
The 2012 Celtics should not even have made the playoffs, but they were fortunate to play in the East. They had a losing 7-11 record against West teams and their regular season defensive numbers were significantly worse against West teams compared to East teams.
Against the 2012 Celtics
West teams = 92.7 PPG on 43.4% FG (18 games)
East teams = 88.1 PPG on 41.4% FG (48 games)
So the 2008-2012 Celtics aren't anywhere near comparable to the 2002-2006 Pistons defense. They never led the playoffs in any of those 3 main defensive categories (PPG, DRTG, OPP FG%). After Ray Allen left, the 2013 Celtics finally led the playoffs in OPP FG%, but for only 6 games in a 1st-round exit.
From 2002-2006, the Pistons led the playoffs in
OPP PPG 5 times (2002-2006)
DRTG 3 times (2002, 2004, 2005)
Though they never led the playoffs in OPP FG%. The closest was in 2004, but the Nets allowed 0.00063% less OPP FG% than Detroit.
The Pistons always stayed healthy from the 2002-2006 Playoffs, so that's another point in their favor over the injury-prone Celtics (2009 Garnett, 2012 Bradley). Perkins also missed 1 game apiece in the 2008 and 2010 Finals.
I double-checked and Billups actually was injured in the 2003 ECSF against the Sixers. But even with him missing 3 games, the Pistons still had the best playoff PPG defense, so that goes even moreso in the Pistons favor.
John Daniels no because the 2004 Pistons team is the greatest team defensively and offensively ever
Can we get Nobody Touches Jordan and TheRiggedBA to have an on-video debate? I'd love to see that.
Of course NTJ will win.
RiggedBa would definitely win
@@jahleelx9270 no he wouldn't.
@@tj5180 yea he would. Nobody touches Jordan is a Jordan worshipper.
@@jahleelx9270 ntj would have won so whats ur point. Riggednba has no arguments all he does is cherry pick videos just to fit his narrative and post them in youtube. Many people destroyed him which I've heard from so there's no question that ntj would have schooled him
@@tj5180 yea like nobody touches Jordan doesn't man gtfoh With that bias stuff. Just because u don't worship Jordan it doesn't mean you're biased.
in round 3 of 06 during game 1 if i'm right some 1 held up a sign with pics that says our full house beats your pair but hamilton billups + wallaces had average careers
I remember that!
I would argue thibs overload zone was a close 2nd but yeah this is arguably the best designed defense of all time
Legit!
Those pistons teams with Ben Wallace and Larry brown would have gave lebron problems. A really good defensive team who had ben Wallace and Clifford Robinson also Antonio dycess including Clifford Robinson who can defend the post and defend the perimeter. They had guys like hunter, prince who can shut down wade, lebron including kobe. Billups was a another great defender.
Do you remember when Lebron put 48 up on the Pistons in the playoffs?
@@aaronflowers8881 That was in '07 when Larry Brown wasn't the coach. Totally different (and inferior) team.
@@curtbeck7171 he took them to 7 on the '06 playoffs with Ilgauskas as his best supporting player. 🤷♂️
@@Carl0428 Still a completely different team, in terms playing style and coaching philosophy, as Flip Saunders was the coach in '06.
@@Carl0428 Lebron was averaging 22 on 43% shooting making 15 to 30 shot attempts against the Pistons between 2003 and 2006, and he had the ball like 80% of the time.
Is sagging man to man defense just helping out 1 pass away basically?
Yes, but only enough sagging such that the help man can recover in time
Imagine if they'd have drafted bosh wade or melo instead of darko milicic....
Melo would've been a disaster. That year when Larry Brown coached the national team with Melo on it, they already clashed.
at 0:28 let me say game 6 of round 3 vs the o'neal led pacers was s terrible game with the score being 69-65 jesus h christ good god almighty
Warriors can take a few pointers from this all defensive team!
Wasn’t really the same defense with Larry brown no longer being there
yeah. they were still elite given their personnel, but it did seem they had some weaknesses in the new defensive system. i was however looking it up and their offense was near the top of the league with Flip while defense also was near the top according to basketball reference. so, they were technically much more well rounded, and obviously still made it to the conference finals for years after.
the big question in my mind is if they drafted Melo instead of Darco. while he was never the best defender, he was also never pushed to be one on that end. and Melo only real success came when he played next to Billups in Denver, when they matched up against Kobe. if Melo was put into a situation where defense was the priority, and then was still the iso legend he was, would he have pushed them to at least one more championship post 2006? while Brown might only have played him off the bench, I feel he may have thrived under Flip, who like I said made the Pistons a top 10 offense. would they dip from elite defense to "only" great been mitigated by Melo coming into his prime at the same time. who knows, but good what if
Does anyone else notice that after the 2005 playoffs Rasheed Wallace really declined? Rasheed wasn't as effective in the 2006 and looked really weak in 2007
Can u do Lew Alcindor defense on Wes Unseld 1971 Finals
I don't plan on making single player defense highlights for a while. If I do have time to do another one, the next one would likely be Duncan and Robinson against Shaq in the 1999 or 2002 WCSF. Also, I can only find the 2nd half of 1971 Finals Game 4, not the entire game.
Nobody Touches MJ Or Dikembe Mutombo defense on Kemp 1994
ok back to 0:28 that 04 pistons team didn't have the defensive results that the 76ers warriors and celtics teams had led by the goats being wilt chamberlain and bill russell
Lmao no one cares about that era where the game was in its infancy lacking talent
@@Loganbub thx 4 ur full honesty + nothing against u + I'll never ever mean this 1 bit arrogantly but that was an elite era
@@Loganbub having 9-12 teams meant average role players like ben Wallace wouldn't make the nba
@@youtuber3328 Ben Wallace would of been better than Russel had he played in that era.
@@Loganbub ben wallace wouldn't have made the nba back then
Shaq is obviously better than Ben but if you make him work you win. Steph os obviously better than Deladova but he made him qork so it was tough. Dirk is obviously better than Steven Jackson but he made him work that's how they beat them in 07'. But in 2011 Dirk was bout all dat, Tayshawn made Kobe work and he at that time wasn't ready. But later on he was.
the 04 pistons let the bucks get a 1-1 tie they trailed 3-2 vs the nets and took 6 games to beat the pacers and let the lakers get a 1-1 tie and during this time the nba didn't have legends like oscar robertson kareem abdul-jabbar wilt chamberlain and bill russell
Not true
@@ki11atj49 what isn't
@@MidwestFarmToys you make sense and previously the nba didn't have four playoff rounds when it had the prime versions of oscar robertson wilt chamberlain and bill russell
why did the pistons lose the 05 finals
spurs also had amazing defense. pistons werent known for their offense
Oprah Sideverson's Hair yeah, but the nobody Touches Jordan guy unconsciously hints at the greatness of the Pistons, I want him to tell me how or why they failed in the 05 finals at the hight of their man to man defense
Tony Demasso
The Pistons actually outscored the Spurs in the 2005 Finals 86.7 to 84.9 PPG, mainly because of their 31 point win in Game 3.
The two teams were evenly matched but ultimately the Spurs made more clutch plays down the stretch of Games 5 and 7.
Horry had his game-winning 3 in Game 5 after catching fire in the 4th and OT. Billups missed a game-winning layup attempt in traffic with about 17 seconds left in the 4th quarter.
Billups also missed a similar layup in traffic that would have extended the lead to 4 on the play prior to Horrys three. And Rip missed the winning attempt on the play after Horrys shot, it was a little bit of a rushed shot over Parker.
In Game 7 the Pistons were pulling away and were up 48-39 with 7:44 in the 3rd quarter. Duncan scored 12 points in the remainder of the 3rd quarter and the game was tied 57-57 at the end of 3.
In the 4th quarter, Duncan scored/assisted on 11 of the Spurs 24 points and Manu, Bowen, and Horry all hit timely threes, one apiece in the 4th quarter that extended their lead by the end of the game.
Duncan's rebounding for the series was also a big factor. He had 14 rpg and kept Ben and Rasheed off the glass.
In the 2004 Finals Ben and Rasheed combined for 21.4 RPG, compared to 15.9 RPG in the 2005 Finals.
Oh btw, would the pistins have been able to beat the cavs in the 2007 ecf if ben was still on the team?
I think they would have. LeBron averaged just under 31-10-9 on 49% in Games 3-6 during their 4 straight wins against Detroit in the 2007 ECF. I don't think he would have been as successful with Ben protecting the paint for the full series, and that could make a big difference since each of the first 5 games were decided by 6 points or less.
LeBron took the 2006 Pistons to 7 games, but for whatever reason he played better in the 2006 season and Playoffs compared to 2007. In the 2006 season he had 31-7-7 compared to 27-7-6 in 2007.
LeBron led the Cavs to 50 wins both years, but the 2006 East was much tougher compared to 2007. The Pistons had the 1-seed with 64 wins in 2006 compared to 53 wins in 2007, which is tied with the 2017 Celtics for the 3rd-worst 1-seed record in the 4-round format (1984-present). Only the 2002 Nets (52-30) and 2003 Pistons (50-32) have worse records as the 1-seed since the playoffs became 4 rounds.
In the playoffs, LeBron had 35.7 ppg 7.5 rpg 5.7 apg on 51% against the healthy 2006 Wizards. Against the 0.500 Wizards without Arenas or Butler in 2007, he had 27.8 ppg 8.5 rpg 7.5 apg on 43% instead, despite facing an inferior version of the same team.
Can someone explain to me why, against the same defensive scheme, Kobe struggled way more in 04 than Wade did in 05?
There were a couple reasons for Wade performing better against the 2005 Pistons compared to Kobe against the 2004 Pistons.
1. The 2004 Pistons were better defensively than in 2005, partially due to the rule changes in 2004/05 that fully removed handchecking and limited physical defense. The 2005 Pistons were still the best defense of that year's playoffs, but the 2004 Pistons were the best of all-time and set nearly every notable shot-clock era defensive playoff record.
2. Wade was a tougher style matchup for Tayshaun Prince than Kobe was. Wade was quicker than Kobe so it was easier for him to beat Prince off the dribble and get easier short-range shots. Kobe didn't have the quickness and speed to beat Prince and his long wingspan nearly as often. So he was forced into taking contested mid-range and long-range jumpers for most of the series.
On the other hand, Kobe had an easier time against Lindsey Hunter's defense than Wade did, but Hunter didn't get nearly as much playing time as Prince. Kobe also had much worse decision-making than Wade and had much worse shot selection after the Pistons defense started to make him struggle. He was much more prone to forcing things than Wade was.
Interestingly, Wade shot 0/4 3PT in the 2005 ECF and 2/8 3PT in the 2006 ECF, yet was still successful against the Pistons defense excluding his 2005 rib injury. Which further emphasizes that he often got the close-range shots he wanted against the Pistons defense, especially in 2006 when exploiting the holes in their zone.
3. Coach Stan Van Gundy of the Heat made a smart adjustment after Prince troubled Wade in Game 1 of the 2005 ECF. After that game, Wade was often the primary ball handler and brought up the ball as the Heat's point guard. Prince rarely defended point guards so he wasn't used to defending someone with the ball in his hands as often or someone who brought the ball up fullcourt.
In the 2004 Finals the Lakers usually had Payton and Fisher handle PG responsibilities, so Prince didn't have to guard Kobe with the ball in his hands as often as he did with Wade after Game 1. Prince could relax a little more while defending Kobe off the ball in the half-court set before defending him on-ball. With Wade he didn't get to rest off the ball as often.
Coach Larry Brown recognized this so he had Lindsey Hunter spend more time guarding Wade and occasionally pressure him full court, which was successful some of the time. But because of his offensive limitations Hunter couldn't be used nearly as often as Prince.
Because they made rule changes to help the offensive players in 2005 after the Pistons won in 2004..
@@nobodytouchesmj9780really good analysis. Besides the rule changes Wade's quickness was the number 1 reason imo, Kobe couldnt beat Prince off the dribble and good luck with all the fadeaways against a guy who is 3 inches longer with a crazy wingspan. I also find it incredible that Wade in year 2 and 3 was more mature and less emotional in his decision making than Kobe in year 8. Barring health I will always believe that Wade could have been the number 2 sg of all time and the closest to MJ.
@@pipohemm8726the main issue is that Kobe just sucked that year. Out of his prime years from 2001-2013, 2004 was probably his worst. Didn't have an offseason, had the Colorado trials, missed 17 games from injuries that year. He ran out of gas by the WCF, he simply didn't play at the level of an all time great that year (offensively)
now wade was semi elite + shaquille o'neal in his heat years was not elite at all + in round 3 of 05 + 06 the heat went 7-6 vs the pistons
This team would get their ass busted today. Sagging off of nba players today equals a 3 pointer. Teams would get up 60 threes a game
What if 20042006 Pistons Play With 2018 Playoff Rockets??
Pistons win....easy!
With 04-06 rules though.
Hardens constant flopping and ref baiting would give Rasheed Wallace a lot of seizures
Im not a Lebron fan however why doesn't he post up most of the time? He would force double teams on command if not he should be able to post up and take his defender all day.
Crazy how Wade destroyed them.
+Rafael Mertin wade didn't play the same pistons team Kobe did he did in 05 but he lost that matchup the 06 pistons werent the same
Destroyed?? Wade played good, but destroyed?? He was still held under his season average in 06 so I don't how you can say he destroyed them 🤷🏾♂️
Not to mention the nba made rule changes to help the offensive player after the Pistons won in '04
@nobodytouchesjordan you should be exposing lebum James defense this entire season. It's atrocious bruh.
Don’t hear that type of noise in todays nba arenas, game is soft and boring and zero defense.
Bruh you just regurgitated everything somebody else said.
im not a gsw fan
and u can all laugh
but i think that they can be a better defensive team than the pistons
with all do respect to tyshun prince
iggy and especially klay can lock u the fuck down
draymond is one of the best ever
clearly berret than sheeeeeed
and kd with his length
i would take him over rip hamilton