The ULTIMATE weapons tier list for CASTLE DEFENCE!
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- čas přidán 25. 04. 2022
- Let's analyse which medieval weapons would be best for defending a CASTLE!
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As a avid velociraptor breeder. I would say they are worth the price of 3 Frenchmen. They run away from battles at much faster speed and have sharp claws instead of sharp tongues
I'm sorry you're doing what with the velociraptors
under rated comment
They got feathers, then?
Do you have any spare velociraptors? I have several spare Frenchmen for... reasons.
Do those raptors come equipped with rocket launchers and laser guns?
Ah, so this is how the Shadlands will be defended for generations to come. Truly glorious.
I love that name, Shadlands. Hilarious and awesome
Actually a terrible video in that regard, because now we actually know what to expect
The futures is in the skies, my friend 😂 RC airplanes dropping beehives
I think Velociraptor bit and attacks would brake bones. What about those massive sieges where the walls are 8m + thick? like in some Chinese walls and in middle east. For example in Baghdad the walls 50m high and 12m thick.
@@magnushorus5670 It's also the name of our new channel :)
czcams.com/channels/fvLHflumHs-9VG3qLV6Y3w.html
I will defend the shadlands with my badass fighting skills
A topic I've not seen covered: The aftermath of medieval battles. What happens to the wounded, the dead, the dying, their stuff, their camp followers, etc on the losing side?
This would make a great video!
Dead bodies start to rot and stink very quickly, so...
After the battle, they dig big mass grave and throw all the bodies there, they have to do it in one or two days, after that the stench will be too great.
If the battle is too big, they live bodies on the battlefield, all battlefield stinks like hell for years, awful stench of rot. If it is farmland, it can't be farmed for many many years after the battle.
Most people were dead poor in those times.
I think a battlefield would be cleared out of every useable peace of armor, clothing and metal before the bodies would start to smell bad.
@@erics320
In case of small skirmish, yes. In case of big battle, no.
An interesting fact of war, actually, is that mortality rates in combat generally went up as history went on. The dead and dying were dealt with swiftly and crudely. What happens to wounded and prisoners depends heavily on the victor, unfortunately. Important people were taken prisoner, but generally the soldiers were either put to the sword, or scattered, depending on why the fight is happening. Slavery would be uncommon, mostly because serfs fulfilled mostly the same role as slaves, while also not being nearly as much of a headache to manage. It'd pretty much only happen if the slaves could be sold *quickly*. You only captured people alive if they were worth the food you had to give them, which often was not the case, unless you were capturing someone with a title. The alternatives depend mostly on the victorious commander. Particularly bloodthirsty commanders would have routing enemies run down and surrendering soldiers killed, while more peacable ones would probably let the routing ones flee and strip the remaining ones of their gear. There's also the thing that serfs were bound to their land first and their lord second, so if you managed to capture the land, as long as you didn't have a terrible reputation, they'd probably shrug and just go back home and tend to their duties under the new rule. Lords come and go, whatever.
At the velociraptor part: I think some random frenchmen would be pretty demoralized if they noticed their enemy had a freaking "dragon" defending their castle.
Maybe, but why are some random Frenchmen laying siege to the castle in the first place? It's a lot more effective with an army.
Also, if you encountered either a dragon or a "dragon", it would only have shock factor the first time. Second time you're going to turn it into a dead pincushion.
@@JarieSuicune It entirely depends on how the dragon drags on specifically. Some of them are harmless and get killed easily. Others fucking destroy everything around them in vast territories and ask for more.
An actual Velociraptor would look more like a large bird.
Frenchmen arent a problem at all. There is a reason we call them "whiteflags" here
fun fact, in Japanese, the word for dinosaur is written with the dragon character
Just make sure to cut down all the palm trees in the close vicinity you don't want the enemy forces to use them to catapult themselves over the walls
That movie was AMAZING!
But Shad,
You forgot one of the most important question you could ever ask-
What about the dragons?
DRRRAAAAGOOOOONNNNNNNZZZAHHH!!!!
Your so right. WHAT ABOUT DRAGONS!
A million men could have marched on harrenhal and a million men would’ve been repelled, but dragons…
I remember when Shad opened with that
dragons are a siege weapon to attack castles, this video is about defense.
"There's a reason why they went extinct!"
Ah yes, and that brings us to the most famous medieval weapon, the meteor.
Except they didn't necessarily go "meteor, boom, extinct". (They didn't even die to an ending all in the same millennium!) While many (all) did die to various reasons (old age at the minimum), many continued having babies and evolution marched on until they simply stopped being what we recognize as "dinosaurs" but their descendants are still around today.
@@JarieSuicune That's birds, though, not the dromaeosaur branch. The two lineages, while closely related, nevertheless split long before velociraptors or deinonychus were around.
@@Draxynnic True, birds have been around at least 100 million years.
Intercontinental Ballistic Trebuchet (ICBT)
The best rocky stick
I love how the war pick is just a war hammer that you're holding the other way around.
I feel that the conversation mainly revolved around the wall-to-ladder combat, giving preference to polearms. There are a lot more areas and phases to castle defense, such as gatehouses and fighting in close quarters once the enemies are on top of the walls. In these cases rocks and shorter weapons come in handy.
Definitely agree with you. I can think of quite a few factors that would be applicable to most phases of a castle defense, but the weight or emphasis put on those factors would shift significantly when we consider the very confined spaces which many of a castle's "interior" defenses were specifically constructed to create. Even discounting trying to storm the keep, trying to take a tower to get at the crossbowmen at the top (which Shad correctly points out would be a tremendous threat to an attacking force-- this then implies that eliminating that threat would be considered quite a high priority for the attackers) would be a vastly different undertaking than trying to carry a section of the ramparts.
@@ulfgard4734 Polearm +sidearm is the true S-rank weapon. I recommend the warhammer and mace for fighting inside walls and towers.
Banner Lord makes everyone a professional when it comes to a siege
@@dallinadams9422 Nah, if it was the Bannerlord lads they'd be talking about hiring five Irish celts to headshot everyone.
I think Velociraptor bit and attacks would brake bones. What about those massive sieges where the walls are 8m + thick? like in some Chinese walls and in middle east. For example in Baghdad the walls 50m high and 12m thick.
Shad needs to keep in mind that if the velociraptor wielded the nunchuks there would be no stopping it
Wait, do they have opposable thumbs? That might be a bit of a steeper learning curve otherwise.
Of course, we all know 'nature finds a way'.
@@JarieSuicune Maybe the claws curl around the Nunchaku to keep it in place against the pad of the "hand"?
@@JarieSuicune Maybe, it could have a fake thumb, like a panda.
Yeah, because it would knock itself out before anyone else got the chance
Nunchucks and double flails are deadly in the claws of a Velociraptor. Especially if he wields them from the back of a pterodactyl. When I see an enemy equipped thusly, I duck and cover and hope they don't spot me.
The most overlooked modern weapon for medieval times; Big Crowbar
Perfect anti-ladder tech, large reach, good blunt damage, BIG STICK demoralization effect… perfection!
Woodworm.
@@giupiete6536 I think that just ends many wars (and possibly civilizations?), not just a single siege.
edit: wait, I misread that, huh? Whoops.
Gordon Freeman approves!
Yeah, but there's a risk of headcrabs every time you pick one up.
plus, hookie hookie!
Something I noticed that was completely overlooked, is that in a castle defence, one could use several of these, because you can store weapons somewhere where they aren't in the way because you don't need them for the time being, as there are many different aspects of castle defence. From enemies storming the castle with a battering ram, to enemies storming the castle with ladders and then climbing the castle with ladders, to enemies having reached the battlements or entered the castle grounds through the broken gate.
All of these warrant different weapons... but in a castle defence, you can have all of them. Use the crossbow first, and when worst comes to worst and you're fighting inside the castle, fetch the mace to smash some heads in.
Fear not! Once the gate is broken, there's still the portcullis! Usually a murder area between two portculli actually. Maybe a tunnel in or to fell the wall though
@@fullelement4886
And within, murder holes. Taste boiling water and hot sand, ruffians!
Speaking of castle sieges, will there be videos on siege and field vehicles - catapults, trebuchets, mantlets, siege towers, battle wagons/wagenforts? There are a lot to talk about.
Well, Shad have made a Siege video. Though I would think that is just the bare bones of it all.
Would love that too
Should be a list for sally weapons in a siege. Counter-attacks are very important in a siege.
I assume that will be in the tier list for the siege instead of the besieged.
Mind some besieged castles et cetera used siege weapons to great effect for defence but it was not very common.
Cannons though they where as common for defending as the assault of a castle et cetera.
Gun powder really changed the face siege warfare & eventually made in practically obsolete.
HUSSITE WAGONNN
In 1289, Austria, Duke Albert I, as part of his on-going conflict with the rebellious Kőszegi family, assaulted one of their fortresses at the head of a 15,000 strong army. According to accounts of the battle, when bees were dropped from the walls utter chaos ensued, and the army broke and fled.
Throughout history bees were used by both attackers and defenders in siege warfare, with many castles keeping "bee boles" that would be raided and tossed out at the enemy. Even the Romans got in on bee warfare, you found them especially useful in naval combat, bees tossed onto the decks of enemy ships had nowhere to go, and a target-rich environment in which to protect their relocated nest.
That’s fucking hilarious.
Shad, Shad, Shad...the bull whip may be F tier in slaying opponents, but it's A tier in motivating your own troops, especially the crap ones 😉
I’ll get the troops in line
Where there's a whip, there's a way.
@@CommissarCage Hahah, as a fellow veteran orc, I couldn't help myself.
@You just lost the game good point. I demote the motivational whip to A- tier
I would put all ranged weapons above all melee weapons. Including rocks. With crossbows at the top. You have such an advantage with those since the enemies need to get through all of them before they can reach you with melee weapons, and their projectile weapons are far less effective since the castle offers so much cover. And if they manage to get inside the castle, you can often fall back and do it again. And if you can't fall back like that, then you can pick up some other weapon instead.
The castle provides cover, but also the high ground, another advantage for missiles
reconsider, guns are at the top, as long as you have gunpuder and some lead you can do real bad damage, and psychological warefare too as teh noise of guns will make people feel unwell and even cause ptsd
I'd put rocks way above crossbows and pitchfork-like poles for pushing ladders and such away from the wall would be in the same tier lol
Sure shooting someone is fine but how many people (especially with a shield over head) can one crossbow bolt remove permanently from the battle? :V
@@patriciusvunkempen102 it largely depends on the period, earlier guns tended to suck real bad when it came to reliability and lethality at range, reloading was ridiculous too.
As to PTSD I assure you its as easy enough to get from just having to scale the walls or operate the ram (it's *usually* a result of long exposure to high stress environment as opposed to a single traumatic event you then have time to process)
@@Sk0lzky And there's no weapon cheaper than trusty ol' rock!
Me - Going to need to write a siege battle soon
Shad - Does this
Me - AVE, TRUE TO SHAD!!!
Same for me. I'm planning on writing a novel where a siege has a central role and then I get blessed with this video.
@@dragonfelgrand9304 The siege isn't central, its just how A) the main character's love interest is going to die saving him from Orcish Warbows and B) to have him get stabbed in the throat and his brother get set on fire to reveal that the Icon's ain't all dead.
If only mine didn't have magic, monsters and way crazier things. Shad would get a crazy time analyzing that.
@@enriquegd2977 Improvise, adapt, overcome. People would want a safe place to fortify and they would come up with ways to make that happen. And then other people who want to get in would figure out how to make that happen.
Flying monsters are a problem? Make the fortresses into a mountain.
Magical attacks are a thing? Ward the stones.
The In Laws are coming? Shark Moat.
Make sure to fairly represent the velociraptors in your medieval siege stories. I think they should at least be in the wildcard tier.
Sometimes it feel like Oz is a D&D player with crazy ideas and Shad is the DM sorta on board with the ideas and trying to figure out how to make it work, absolutely beautiful!
Certainly explains why Oz demands powder with his nappy.
So my viewpoints:
- I would move the Mace and Hammer up to C tier. Simply because while they make lack range to hit people during the escalade, if the enemy makes it over the battlements onto the ramparts, it's going to be *tight* quarters, and a short weapons with a lot of hitting power would be excellent.
-I'd move the pitchfork down to at least D, if not F. Remember these things are made of wood, and they're not actually all that hooky. A spear is still going to a better option.
-Frying Pan I wouldn't move, but bear in mind it's also a defensive tool. That same crossbowman who shot Richard I had been observed using a frying pan to deflect incoming arrows and other projectiles.
-Rocks are S tier. You say they're situationally useful, but this is that specific situation. They're also super cheap, require no training, and if large enough can take out a man (or multiple men) regardless of their armour.
Also the creatures called Velociraptors in Jurassic Park are actually called Deinonychus.
Albeit upsized ones, and in the movie they do refer to them as Velociraptors due to a variety of pretty bad reasons.
Coming from Insider video where ancient warfare expert Roe rated Rocks as S tier, I totally support your view
on the ramparts, range is more of an disadventage.
Rocks need more love! And ranged would always be effective on walls and in towers, although it's better when you can get a large amount of shots out. It's when they do get on top of the walls and close the distance that you need to switch to melee
Rocks would be so much more useful than a man catcher. Even in castle defense, the man catcher still has only that one scenario, while rocks can wreak havoc across the entire defense until they close the distance. S tier for rocks!
I love how much fun Shad has with Oz and Nathan
Shad is always here to remind us medieval enthusiasts to use protection.
A good modern groin protector is a must , don't skimp on safety equipment even if it is not period accurate, it is ok if it is not visible for the sake of safety.
The emperor protects
Early muskets/matchlocks were absolutely amazing for castle defense, they decided entire sieges at the time when large artillery wasn't very effective yet
Large artillery was used but mainly in assaulting not defending.
@@jimmybobby4824 in the early days of gunpowder weapons, artillery wasn't yet capable of seriously damaging a well defended city wall
@@tommihommi1 not true, there’s evidence of 4 bore cannons in 13th century China and 14th century Europe, they were essential in creating ‘forlorn hopes’ on stone walls from further distances, out of the range of the wall defenders.
@@DoctorProph3t yes, the cannos were there, but not widespread enough and effective enough. The Siege of Neuss is a great example for this.
100 years later, cannon technology had advanced and Neuss got completely overrolled and burned down.
@@tommihommi1 Yes it was. That is why artillery was used in most sieges from the mid-late 14th century onwards. Depends on the strength of the wall.
I feel that one area not discussed enough were the tunnel fights conducted by sappers. This was one of the most brutal arenas of a siege, and ranged weapons and pole arms were useless in them. Daggers, maces, and other small weapons would be the best choice for close quarters tunnel warfare.
For Spears: remember they can be thrown a fair distance depending on the spear. So you would get some range if needed, on top of having a long stabbing weapon.
If I remember correctly in one naval battle the Romans were.attacking and the defenders asked Hannibal for help (he was an old man by then). He advised to gather poisonous snakes and put them in clay jars and lob them at the enemy. Interesting tactic as sailors and such don't wear much armor out on the ocean.
Yeah. On the ocean armor puts more risk (drowning, more weight when climbing around on the ship, bulky in tight quarters, etc.) so throwing snakes worked relatively well, and for cheap, with the bonus of not actually destroying the ships they hit. Pretty genius idea really.
@@shadowx3benz117 Except now you have a bunch of useless ships with rotting corpses and highly pissed off and starving snakes that will strike you the moment you board. Kinda defeats the purpose of capturing the ships in the first place when your opponent can just build more and draw up fresh troops to throw at you while you have limited snake ammunition...
@@Feiora but the snakes will starve, then you take the ships. Or at worst you kill anyone else who tries to take it. It disables the ship, without destroying it, and snakes are cheaper than oil, ballista bolts, or catapults, and you don't have to worry about boarding and risking your people. Win win win.
@@shadowx3benz117 But the question is do you have the time to wait for snakes to starve to death (weeks to months depending on if they fed before being poached) when your enemy is certain to return with more ships and men for round 2/3/4, etc. also boiling water is infinitely cheaper as is heated sand, additionally you still have festering corpses that can bring diease carrying flying insects into your port or the camp on the stretch of coastline you are defending, thus causing soldiers to become ill and weakening your forces right before the enemy returns... Not much of a win now is it? You won the first battle to only invite disaster in the coming battles, remember this if nothing else, there will be consequences for every action taken or not taken, what may deliver a speedy victory in the first fight may be your undoing later on.
A far safer approach would be to send slaves to ferret out the snakes alongside handfuls of volunteers from your army to keep the slaves from trying to escape as well as actually help out dealing with the snakes and bodies. Thus, for the lives of mere slaves and perhaps afew soldiers you now have your enemy's ships under your flag and with abit of clean up and inspection to make sure they are snake free, they can be put into service before the enemy returns hopefully. A word of caution though, your enemy may adopt the same strategy you used and throw pots of snakes at your navy should you sail out to fight them at their port or for a proper naval battle, I know I would...
@@Feiora there, I had a thought, you optimized it, and made snakes a great option again. Sand and hot water would be much cheaper, but at the cost of effectiveness. Snakes are a nice balance. And with your "use slaves" option you could use the same snakes in the next battle.
One addition about rapiers and spears, etc.: imagine that the enemy is breaching a door and it now has gaps through which you can stab... Poleaxes are likely too bulky and would get stuck. In any case, if they wear open-faced helmets rapiers become quite valuable as a sidearm.
BTW: at least in feudal Japan, they did have gates with barred windows on the top, similar to what some prison doors used to look like in Europe. The idea here was that you can shoot or stab through the door if someone tries to breach it.
Problem with that is that they could also shoot and stab back, but the idea makes sense.
@@marcasai_rex7760 The defender has the advantage as the openings in the door are above man height. Thus, you can't see the defender unless you step back. Thus, only shooting would be possible, but there's a good chance that the arrow gets stuck in the bars...
If you wonder how the defender can fight from up there: that's simple. They put a sort of battlement behind the door which also blocks it from swinging open.
Idk about middle ages but definitely in XVI century such gates existed as well. Not necessarily with openings above but at eye height so you only have to keep your head down not to be exposed
Now that I think of it they existed in middle ages too, I've seen period art and even thousand years old doors like this in medieval monasteries (which were largely built the way they were built for protection)
Shad and Oz arguing how effective a turkey sized murder lizard would be at defending a castle made my day.
But in all seriousness, I don't think they would be all that effective, unless used in large masses. Maybe if you filled the courtyard with them and either let them loose on the enemy camp or kept them there in case someone breached the gates they could at least cause some mayhem and even kill a few people with open visor helmets. But then again, you could use pretty much any decently dangerous carnivorous animal for that, maybe even one that hasn't gone extinct yet.
Dogs would be more useful
they are not wild animals and can therefore be used against the enemy without the consern of them turning back on you
If you keep a flock of velociraptors, and occasionally feed them prisoners so they know how to handle humans, they would be a super powerful wildcard. Many seiges have been absolutely derailed by successful sallies from the defenders, especially at night. By sneaking into the camp and causing havock before the besieging force can even react, you can do huge damage to morale, structure, readiness, and inflict more casualties. Murder chickens trained on humans would be absolutely devastating if you could safely get them out of the castle, say you've got a hidden mini-door that directly connects to their pens.
And maybe they come back to the pen when it's all done, going home once they've eaten. Huge resources would be expended each night keeping them away, and every soldier would sleep fitfully, fearfully.
Therefore they are a perfect wildcard.
They're so useless they're not even real lizards smh
A volkswagen sized armoured cassowary would make more sense.
Ankilosaurus with the club tail might be more useful, kind of like a war elephant
A tier list of shields would be great, I know you analyzed shield types once in the past, but it might be interesting to revisit in the context of a battlefield or castle defense.
On the wall, I think poking at people coming over the wall would be more effective than chopping at them...
Maybe throwing Oz over the wall to demoralize the enemy is "A' tier.
My parents were in the SCA back in the day, and my dad and his friends participated in a battle called “Pennsic War IV” normally as part of the war, when you die you fall over as a corpse and lay there, in this war someone hit a beehive… the corpses jumped and ran.
A guy named Michael Longcor made a song about this battle, and in it he talks about this one guy who had this big beautiful bascinet helm that took 10 minutes to get on and off, some of the bees got into his armor, and last people saw of him he was running away yelling “I’ve been stung”
This is to say, if you can find a way to weaponize bees vs armored infantry, it would be devastating.
Well, i must find the sources again, but there's been actual sieges during antiquity and middle ages were beehives and other insects were used to great effects.
Boiling oil worked well for similar reasons
The third dragon age game had Jar of bees as one of its alchemy based grenade style weapons. By far my favorite item to use.
12 foot demon charging you? Well it better bee careful...
Bees were used in England.
It is talked about in the British History Podcast, or the History of England podcast.
Everyone’s a bad ass until they hear the wrath of a thousand bees.
For the arming sword and shield remember how castle towers have a spiral staircase at a tight slope in a certain direction because defenders can properly use a sword and shield but attackers constantly rusk slamming the sword into the walls at times. Also drop active beehives down the machicolations onto attackers would be terrifying.
This was a fun watch, love watching the nerd-gasming and introspection about medieval weaponry usage!
I love the joke about that dude's friend who tried to make honey with his bees but it tasted terrible no matter how finely he ground up them. Also this episode should be called "Shardiversity."
If you need a video suggestion, I would suggest a video on materials in the medieval age, what was used for clothing, building and what was the differences between peoples.
Correlating with the history of those crazy, puffy pantaloons would be nice.
With pronunciations of names like Hochosterwitz, I find it helpful to kind of understand what the name means.
"Hoch" means "high" in German, so that's kind of pronounced "separately" from the rest of the name. English place names have all kinds of descriptors as well, but they're written separately, like Upper Bucklebury or Little Houghton or Lower Whitley.
In German, compound words are just written together, but the pronunciation still makes it fairly clear there are separate words. So it's Hoch⌒osterwitz, with "Osterwitz" being a Germanized version of the older Slavic name "Astarwiza".
I also think it helps pronunciation to split the syllables as they would be in the original language: hoch-ost-er-witz. Literally translated "high son of the east". A more derived English translation would be something like "Great eastern castle"
@@tippyc2 Hisonotheeast would be a dope fantasy name for a town lol
@@tippyc2 As a German I can tell you that splitting the word like you did, it would literally translate to : High - east- he/him - joke. High son of the east would be: Hoch - sohn - aus - dem - osten. As someone from the west of Germany (Pronounciation can vary between regions in Germany) I would pronounce it as Hoch - oster - witz, which would translate to High - easter - joke.
@@Fuerwahrhalunke Well Witz is not as in joke but as in the old slawic word for mountain "wizza" so its Hoch-Oster-Berg. (Hatte mich auch gewundert wie das Wort "Witz" denn da reingekommen ist)
All the tier lists!!! Another banger Shad, keep em coming!
Dude your an absolute genius. See this is why I wait for your next video. I love this stuff man.
Quick Glossary:
S Tier: Shooty-shooty
A Tier: Hooky-hooky
B Tier: Choppy-choppy / Stabby-stabby
C Tier: Whacky-whacky
D Tier: Somewhat Useful, but short range
WC Tier: Case-specific, but awesome at it
F Tier: What the hell am I supposed to do with this?
To correct Shad: real velociraptors were the size of turkeys. Turkeys with 2 very sharp claws and a good understanding of how vulnerable the neck is. They also posted the agility to grapple onto moving prey and their "wings" were very good at helping them keep their balance.
Edit: biting through armour is a no go (you'd need a TRex), jumping to the ground and surviving is (surprisingly) a maybe.
Overall I'd rate them as a wild card
The "Velociraptors were small" idea is sort of a myth, because the dinosaurs depicted in the movies are actually Deinonychus
. Speilburg just stole the name velociraptor from a smaller dinosaur because he thought it sounded cooler. But yes, regarding the real dinosaur named velociraptor I agree with your assesment.
@@SmudgySubset It was Michael Crieton who did that because the paleontologist he consulted was someone who believed the deinonychus was part of the velociraptor family. It was the minority opinion, but Criteon did that anyways because he thought velociraptor sounded cooler. lol
I'm trying really hard not to correct your spelling of boasted, prey, biting, through, and maybe...
@@johannesstephanusroos4969 apologises on that i try my best but my spelling SUCKS!
@@johannesstephanusroos4969 also you failed at not correct, thenk you very much for that !
Any other mistakes I should know?
Great work shad
Smashing job, sir Chad!
As for how effective velociraptors would be in siege/battle, I think they would be good for the first battle, especially if the enemy was not expecting them. However, it would not take long before any weaknesses are revealed and tactics and weapons are created to deal with them. Real life example, elephants. They caused the Romans a lot of grief when they first encountered them. But by the time of the battle of Zama, the Romans had them down pat and eliminated the threat very quickly. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if you could deal with velociraptors similarly to how you deal with elephants.
Worst than eliminated, on at least one occasion they actually panicked the elephants and sent them back towards the Carthaginian line where they inflicted the damage intended for the Romans lol
It really depends on whether we're talking about actual raptors or the fictionalized representation in the movies too. Lol
@@themeangene Real velociraptors would be like war dogs, not especially lethal but a great distractor. Movie velociraptors would be more like cavalry, maybe even being deployed along with cavalry to sally out and harass the enemy.
You can deal with an elephant with a scorpion or ballista, a little harder to nail fast overgrown chickens with that.
You think the best way to fight carnivorous dinosaurs would be to set pigs on fire? I mean, it might work, but for completely different reasons.
Regarding the Velociraptor. The estimated bite force of Deinonychus (the basis for Jurassic Park's "Velociraptor") is in excess of 4,100 newtons, or over 1,000 psi. This puts in on par with a hyena - its bite would almost certainly break your arm even if armored, and you really wouldn't want to risk it getting its jaws around your head or neck no matter how good your helmet was.
That said, any kind of close-order combat formation with nontrivial weapons will be more than enough to deter a raptor attack, or to hack a group of raptors to pieces in the unlikely event they commit to an attack (they would probably have to be mind-controlled by a magic user for this to happen). The Jurassic Park movies are indeed far too generous in their depictions of raptors' combat effectiveness.
Theropod dinosaurs almost certainly had hollow bones, though. One good whack from a blunt weapon could take down most raptors without too much trouble. As for _actual_ Velociraptors? They were about the size and build of a reasonably chunky turkey; you could punt the little buggers like a football and that would be enough to kill them outright.
@@anthonylamonica8301 Pretty sure studies on non-avian theropod bones have been done, and they have about the same weight-saving as you'd expect from animals of their size. A dromaeosaur would probably be about as tough as a mammal of similar weight.
So a Jurassic Park-style velociraptor (aka deinonychus, although I think people are pretty sure they were feathered now) would be about the level of an unarmoured human.
@@Draxynnic T-Rex, Velociraptors, the fairly primitive Allosaurus, and Deinonychus _all_ had hollow bones. Basically _every_ Theropod had hollow bones; it's typical enough to be one of the identifying traits paleontologists look for when they find an unidentified fossil.
Long story short, if a hit would break a _person's_ bones, it will _pulverize_ the bones of a similarly sized Theropod.
Thank you Shad for doing de MACHICOULATION at the start of the vid.
I now feel comfortable putting the video in background as I take a nap,
Last time it happened I genuily thought I was being attacked by someone
Great video guys!!! These are great to listen to while we work =]
The most dangerous weapon is gravity.
Depending on how tall the walls are, gravity will turn almost anything into a weapon, no matter who wields it, be they trained soldier or a small child.
The pushing and/or hooking potential of a weapon should not be underestimated, a weapon does not need to be lethal if it can pull an enemy off their ladder or over the battlements.
This kind of also go for shields and grappling, but they require them to already be on the battlements.
The problem with the mancatcher s that you lock the weapon to the enemy and if he falls, so does your weapon.
This is actually a point for the two pronged pitchfork, as it is almost just as good at catching, but it can easily release if the enemy falls.
Most enemies coming up a ladder will be using a shield, which is where the heavy clubs, mauls, hammers and so on come in.
They are good for knocking the shield away so archers can get the enemy, if you don't knock him off the ladder completely.
For that job the are much better than most stabby or slashy weapons.
Defenders really have the advantage of having several weapons working in concert.
I do believe that the biggest problem with whips is that they are almost completely a horizontal weapon and they require a lot of space to use.
Sure a severed head will be demoralising to some, but a stone will kill anyone.
dropping a small child would also be effective
Rocks should be A tier. Cheap and devastating.
I would say the use of a staff sling would increase the effectiveness of pots full of nastiness, quicklime powder, oil, bees, etc. Perhaps you could lump all of these things under the name of "ordinance" since all would be packaged into pots and thrown either by had or by staff sling, of which we have plenty of depictions of. I would elevate this class to something closer to C since they were pretty common and do their job well depending on what you put in the pot. They may even have a significant impact on the siege depending on how many you have
Nice advantage is being able to lob them over the wall from the ground below, thus being completely safe from any retaliation. Plus, rocks are cheap and freely available, you can lob them all through the siege just as deterrents or in volleys to break up camps and basically never run short of ammo, thus conserving crossbow bolts/arrows for serious fights.
You got Hochosterwitz almost right in the final attempt!
Hoch-Osterwitz would translate into "High Easterwich"
I am looking forward to the self-defense list, I would also be interested to the see a mounted combat list. A lot of weapons that are great for infantry on the battlefield aren't as useful for mounted fighters.
I still think flails were cavalry weapons. Nearly every depiction I've seen of them is on horseback, and on foot, two-handed single-pivot flails beat them in every regard. But on a horse, you need a one-handed weapon since you need the other hand to use the reins. So flails were adapted to this use. Flails suck in formation because they aren't formation weapons.
This actually makes so much sense all of a sudden. Thanks 👍
It sounds like it makes sense but it’s weak, there’s a reason light cavalry sabres were the pinnacle of mounted weaponry, and there’s plenty of reason to suggest flails were a medieval meme.
Well, your statement may be true for a Europe, but we've got MASSIVE amounts of those in Central and South Asia. There are some dispute, but it seems it was quite wide-spread.
@@DoctorProph3t Sabres were great, true, in baroque/Napoleonic warfare. Try using one in an age where heavy armor is prevalent.
@@dilen754 Are you referring to flails as infantry weapons or flails in general?
Early firearms are missing from this list. We have many handgones or castle guns from 16 century in our castles. Even whole castle defense was based around them with embrasures for gun shooting.
Another point is that castles are really cramped they have narrow doors, stairways, short ramparts. They were build to make the enemy approach as hard as possible. Here it is harder to use long pole-arm weapons, shield and sword has real advantage as you can block whole door with a shield.
Prevalent gun use in warfare goes back to the 13th century, there was a good 100 years of musket use in modern war alongside knights of yore.
Crossbow would be in S and muskets in S+.
I think shields have a place for breached walls/gates/doors. Not super useful in general unless your losing. I personally agree with your rating.
cool video shad! 😊🏰
Thank you for sharing content like this. My playthrough of Kingdom Come Deliverance is a lot richer knowing about these topics.
I feel that he missed one major aspect of one of the weapons here and quite frankly it was the most dangerous opponent of any besieging force throughout medieval times. The chamber pot would have a significant aspect of biological warfare. With most armies throughout that time in history disease killed more people than battle. Now how much one chamber pot would increase the risk of disease for a besieging army is debatable, but I do think this aspect should be considered.
I wholeheartedly agree; this is exactly what I was going to comment!
Unlike a proper battlefield, waiting for disease to ravage the enemy forces was a viable siege defense tactic, even if it was a bit of a gamble.
Dipping the tips of every arrow and bolt fired at the enemy in Poop would make what would normally be a survivable wound into a debilitating and/or leathal one
I was thinking about how much of an irritant human waste can be in large enough quantities/small enough spaces, waiting for folks to reach a gatehouse and dumping a large amount of waste around them should irritate the eyes (and they might be sight impaired due to a helmet as is). Choking and if you're lucky vomiting are also possible outcomes.
If you don't have sufficient water to use some for boiling and dropping through a murder hole I don't see a reason not to drop waste on attackers..
Injured attackers who retreat would also likely have received an infection which is just an added bonus.
Can I just say I love Oz as a character in the Shadlands multiverse? I think he deserves his own little animated avatar for when he talks or holds a constipated face, and probably a better microphone because he can be hard to understand sometimes
Shadiverse.
A wasp nest would be more effective than a bee hive since wasps can sting repeatedly without dying. They also stay agitated a long time and are very territorial.
Now if Oz was siegeing your castle, you'd only need a few big spiders! 🕷🕷🕷
Wasps really aren't as aggressive as bees.
I think you should have a look at the scientific reconstitution for the velociraptors. You can't convince me that throwing murderous turkeys in your enemies is a bad tactic for siege defence. Like, imagine a angry goose, now give it sharp teeth and claws.
If geese can save Rome, geese with pointy bits can only be better. XD
Hey man have you ever been attacked by a goose? Those bastards are tougher than they look and persistent; they actually bite harder than you'd think, so a murder goose with sharp teeth and some big ol' disembowelment claws on their feet... Ya no thanks. Granted if I were fully armored said murder goose wouldn't be much of a threat anymore but if you aren't fully armored may God have mercy on your soul..
I feel like sabretooth tiger might be a better choice. Plus they might be decent mounts?
A dragon. Hands down the best thing for castle defense.
🏰 + 🐲 =👍
But... what if it accidentally breaks your castle in the process?
@@JarieSuicune Accidents happen. 🙃
Henry from the comic strip Wizard of ID is a prime example of this hazard. 😂
I love that you're holding conversation with your cameraman. adds some charm
We need a video ranking the weapons based on usefulness in attacking a castle. A ranking of different siege options and methods would be cool too.
Hi Shad! I was wondering if you'd critique my LOTR: Two Towers video I did on the combat and tactical flaws in the film. It'd be a great topic to cover on your channel, and hoping its to mutual benefit. Even includes Professor Tosspot as a guest. All the Best! Cheers!
#MedievalCombatReference
Upvote, let's get Shad to do this
@@johannesstephanusroos4969 Thanks! It would be a great honor. After watching this though, I wish I had said more about Rohan spears on the walls.
Still hoping @Shadiversity sees this 💛
You've got my vote, Grim!
Shad I can't believe you forgot the one OP castle defense weapon......the humble Banana Peel!
Not medievel
Thank you for scratching that machiculations itch!
I love how heated the argument about velociraptors got! You guys are both legends!
On a dagger: if it come to hand-to-hand on the wall and in towers, you may need a short weapon to use in confined space.
That’s one of the reasons swords were so popular. They’re obviously more compact than pole arms, easy to carry, but still give you more reach than something like a dagger. Unless you’re already in grappling range, you’d probably want to avoid using a dagger.
Exactly my point: I've been in many castles and when I imagine how dozens - or hundreds - of people fight upon those walls and towers, I think it could switch hand-to-hand very easily.
I'm confused why the one-handed weapons ranked so low. Shad kept complaining about needing reach and close quarters. Sure reach is good for pushing but you're going to need a close quarters weapon for when they get on the wall or in the corridors.
@@TealWolf26 i see it that Shad was overly (or consciously) concentrating on defending the outer walls from attackers, who are closing in and climbing the ladders or coming from siege towers.
He didn't touch the subject of fighting inside the castle itself... May it be a theme for another video.
@@dilen754 there will likely be a video about fighting inside of buildings and other tightly confined spaces
Types attacks in siege:
Bombardment, Individual Ranged Attack, Ladders, Siege Towers, Internal Castle Melee.
Bombardement:
Counter bombardment is inaccurate,
Unsallied Raiding
Nothing else can be done
Individual Ranged Attack (Arrow, Javelin):
Counter Individual Ranged Attacks
Shields !
Ladders:
Thrusting weapons with reach (Spears) to push assailant back
Rocks thrown off the walls
Hot liquid or sand poored off the walls
Siege Towers:
Melee weapons
Internal Castle Melee:
Melee weapons !
46:45 ROCKS!! ROCKS!!!!
i love shad's reaction to them
I like these tier list videos. I would like to see more on other rankings of things
I feel there is something of an issue with the list. Mainly that it really should be two list, because this is mostly about defending the wall before the enemy is on the wall. If the enemy troops are on the walls, it changes a lot, the space is much more limited, and the defenders will try to "get in" so that eventually they can throw the attacker back... In such close range, weapons like the axe, mace and sword, with or without shields, will be much better than say a poleaxe, because poleweapons need a certain amount of space, but as the defender you are actively trying to get into short range, unless you give up the section of the wall, and pull back to the next defensive position.
Also I feel the list is missing the sling. The ability to throw rocks at a greater range, with very little extra skill needed, should not be discounted.
The thing about the sling is that the rocks they throw (especially ones for a longer range) are not usually as heavy and lethal as simply just dropping down a big rock and it also requires a pretty big room in order to swing it, a crossbow would do as a long-range weapon better than a sling as it is more accurate and dropping a big rock would do a better job at being lethal as it is heavier, and both of which takes even less skill to do, the other is literally just grabbing and dropping/throwing a rock.
But I guess yeah; it's missing on the list.
@@user-tzzglsstle585e38 Regarding the rocks: no they are not as heavy or lethal as the big ones that you just drop on the enemy, not on their own, but the sling adds velocity, and that makes the smaller rocks (that you would otherwise not use for anything) into lethal objects. You can also use staffslings for slightly bigger rocks.
Don't compare it with a crossbow, a sling is not in the same league, but it is many times cheaper to make, and is also fairly easy to train on, it is not a replacement for bows or crossbows, but is an augmentation for the defenders, in that even children can be made into an effective slinger fairly cheaply and fast. Also unless the castle/keep/fort is particular well stocked with crossbows, you wouldn't be able to equip everyone with a crossbow. A sling is litterally just a few pieces of string, and perhaps a small leather cup (if you are fancy), everyone can make one in a matter of hours.
As for room on the wall... Sure it is an issue, but only rarely will you pack the walls with the defenders, usually you will only have a lot of troops on the part of the wall where the enemy assault is happening, leaving room for archers, crossbowmen or slingers to hit the enemy from the flank, and yes one does need some room to be effective, but not that much more than say a longbowman.
I am not saying it is a S-tier weapon, or anything to that level, perhaps it is just a C-tier weapon, but it counts.
@@MrBandholm yeah fair points
Agreed, as soon as he brought up things like the sword catcher and scored the shield and swords so low it became clear he hadn't considered once the wall is topped or breached - if you can snag your opponents weapon in the tight confines on the top of a wall that guy is almost certainly already dead, and with the way stairs are designed to favour the usually dominant hand of the defender, and shields allow the 'stabby stab' long range weapons to reach past from a point of safety. It all adds up to a bad day for the guys that have made it over the wall, that little beachhead is going to be much much harder to hold than it is to repel.
p.s when climbing up ladders you don't tend to bring the heavier nastier weapons a sword catcher is pointless with - the long ones are far too awkward to climb with, and not great at the top of the wall, you will most likely be shot and the small heavy ones may well slow you down, and certainly will help the ladder bend badly, which I expect really will slow you down - I've been up long wooden ladders and they are really really really, (did I stress that enough yet?) floppy things compared to the Al ladder we probably all have used, and it bent rather more alarmingly to my weight than my Dad's, not a huge amount of weight difference but it adds up (and this ladder wasn't all that long, wouldn't get you up most walls)...
well obviously the queen of infantry arms, the pike is best to block off sections at a chokehold, then all kind of distance weapons rule , the ones that are easy to load and handle like crossbows and guns even more so
I was watching another video when I saw this video pop up and saw it was by shad and clicked it immediately, and here I am
Me too, Can't miss this one
what were you watching before you clicked on this?
@@youraveragebinchicken6807 scholagladiatoria’s latest vid
16:40 brandon sanderson once again being one of the best modern writers out there
The reason velociraptors were difficult to deal with in Jurassic Park was because they are in their element. They were able to use pack hunting tactics and use concealment.
irl tho that was not their element
Loved this video, definitely didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition to come at us with French Insults riding a pack of Jurassic Park Velociraptors, not the chickens with sharp, pointy teeth!
The only thing I'm seeing, you're discounting the value of weapons with short reach within hallways and gatehouses. Very focused on the fighting on the walls. Murder holes inside the gate houses may also give more value to polearms like spears without hooks/axe heads/spikes, because you can fit them through the smaller holes easier.
You also missed one more for the crossbow-in the initial contact the sentries can already be loaded & ready to fire. BUT other warbows that can fire faster would be better inside the castle grounds, either for volley fire over the walls or for "reverse slope defense" (shooting the attackers off the tops of your walls). And if your guys with maces and shields are able to hold the doors to keep them on the walls a bit longer, more better.
Sieges are (time-wise) mostly static affairs. Here the ability of the crossbow to be loaded and ony be fired when a situation arises (an attacker sticking his head out) should shine.
dude i love your content sometimes i dont like to admit it but i am a huge nerd and the things you talk about are exsactly exsactly what i am interested in
Whoohoo! Castle video!
I would say a longbow is s+ tier in castles built with them in mind such as castles built in Wales by Edward I. Alot depends on the arrow loop/alcove size. If it was a castle not designed for longbow use then yes their size would cause more issues.
Crossbows would generally be better for castle defense since you can not only utilize cover more effectively, but also aim at people closer to the wall.
Generally true. But some of the edwardian castles such as caernarvon have vertical arrow slits seemingly designed for longbow use and not crossbows. I guess my point is a crossbow or longbows usefulness in defense definitely is impacted by the design of the castles defenses
That makes sense seeing as longbows were a traditional English weapon. Of course they'd want the ability to utilize them in castle defense.
I'd say crossbows are generally better than bows, but I still think they belong on the same tier, since the difference between them is smaller than the difference between bows and the long hooky weapons at the tier below.
Larger alcoves would weaken your castle structure making it easier for siege equipment to destroy it. Therefore, you want alcoves only as large as absolutely necessary.
Alcoves designed for using long-bows would be quite large. If I knew the castle was designed for them, then I would try breaking the thinner wall at the alcoves. After many alcoves have been busted open, then you storm the walls, with ladders and towers aimed at exploiting the busted alcoves as well.
Shad, you need to talk about flying units in medieval-fantasy sieges.
Excellent rankings, though a consideration for the man catcher: is it likely that, were you to grab a person with it, would you be likely to lose it? So is it a one-shot weapon? If so, I feel like it should be lower on the list as repeatability is an issue.
Can't wait for the velociraptor response video.
velociraptors are a hilarious weapon option, and they were around the size of a big Turkey. jurassic park is great, but they do get a lot of things wrong. also i don't know what the velociraptor's bite force is, but if they bit into a medieval metal plated suit of armor, they would completely destroy their own teeth. sure, enough raptors would probably get some kills in a castle siege, but they would be at a disadvantage against a lot of knights with good armor and weapons. also i doubt that a person could safely train them if they were still around.
The animals shown in Jurassic Park are modeled after the deinonychus, which is from the same subfamily as the velociraptor, but has a less marketable name.
How do you mean “wrong”? the movie never said: look at our accurate dinosaurs…
They said in the movie: genetically modified dinosaurs, hybrids with lizards and frogs
Have you watched the movie?
Also in the time when the book was written, velociraptor was also name for deinonychus (until these were separated) and deinonychus is much more similiar to the jp velociraptor
@@Lttlemoi you're right. deinonychus and velociraptor are both dromaeosaurs. i always have been interested in learning about them, and theropod dinosaurs in general. i have always loved dinosaurs for as long as i can remember. they're definitely one of the most amazing types of animals ever to exist on earth.
@@Gabiman66 that's ok. i never said jurassic park was bad in any way, i actually really love the movies. i just was saying that the dinosaurs were different than the real life counterparts, but it is a fair point that they were created with the DNA of other animals in the movies to fill in the blanks of the DNA that they couldn't get. I'm aware of that detail, but I didn't include that in my general comparison.
Now what if we replaced the velociraptor with the utahraptor?
I was under the impression that the castle was a weapon. High walls. Deep, wide ditches--either wet or dry. Fortified entrances. Loopholes to turn dead walls into active defenses. Not to mention creation of artificial high ground. Where did I go wrong?
Well, castles are like weapons in the sense that they're force multipliers. But that applies more on an army level than on an individual level.
Not by classification, I can’t pick up a castle and use it offensively.
@@DoctorProph3t What if it's a scale replica made out of hard wood or stone?
@@TealWolf26 Then it's probably classified as a rock in this tier list.
@@DoctorProph3t There are stationary weapons you can't pick up, though.
3:16 I can listen to this beautiful sound a thousand times and never get tired of it
Nice vid shad could you do one for duels next?
Just when I was looking for ideas to portray the defense of a castle siege in a story. Thanks Shad!!
More French insults
Let's go, another castle video! This is the content I subscribed for
Aye, love the castle vids
28:15 When you said you don’t wanna be grappling the enemy coming up the ladders I immediately thought of someone doing a sunset flip powerbomb over the castle walls on an attacker
Woohoo I love your castle videos 😁
A long bar with a rope at the end and a stabilizing contraption in the middle could be used to push away ladders.
The ladder would be placed on the side of the wall.
The bar would be placed from above between the wall and the ladder.
The stabilizer would be attached to merlons.
People would pull the rope to bring the upper part of the bar inward towards the castle, making the lower part push outward.
The lower part of the bar would push away the ladder !!
You need a lot of force to push a ladder over that is leaning forward, especially when you've got a dozen men in armor on it... Plus, they could be pegged in place making pushing over even more impossible.
Would be easier to damage the ladder or make it slick and hazardous. If you have oodles of time and resources you could some sort of mechanical piston that would push out. Something even like a defensive ram set from inside the wall. A prying bar might work but it would need significant leverage, almost like a compound pulley.
Velociraptors (or more correctly deinonychus) would be a shock weapon, kind of like unleashing packs of wolves on the invaders out of nowhere. One charge, and then they'd just get killed a lot once the shock wore off.
They probably would be on par with wolves.
@@TealWolf26 Or could be far worse. Really, it's hard to say anything without letting any bias of Jurassic Park depictions color your perspective.
For one, if they are Utahraptors (ie, similar to those from the JP films) then they are human-sized targets. And if not, then they are "turkey-sized"(?) and amount to... ankle-biters against armor?
Also their fur/feathers/scales(?) give an unknown amount of protection that may or may not be decent against weapons. Same goes for the durability of their bone structure.
There's only so much you can garner from a rock imprint of a bone from a creature only known to be as it was millions of years ago whose modern-day descendants may not share much or any of those traits with them.
@@JarieSuicune You can test how good fur/feathers/scales are at providing protection. Fossils tell us a lot about the structure of an animal, as the structure itself can be preserved. We know that raptors had hollow air-filled bones.For behaviour it doesn't directly tell you much, but you can gain a lot of clues.
This is more a video on defending castle ramparts. No defending breach points, streets, towers/keeps. Even small fights like defending stairs, fighting though a portcullis, or siege weapons would be fun to hear Shad discuss.
I'm very glad to see the machicolations have made a resurface. 10/10
DnD 3.5 has taught me a domestic cat can kill a level 1 wizard in a fist fight or if the cat caught him flat footed.
Cats do 1 damage a hit, and get 3 attacks at 4/4/-1
Since a cat would get the first round since the higher dex bonus he would make his 3 attacks at a 10 AC / 4 hp wizard
The can would need to roll 6/6/11 so he has 70% chance to hit him with the 2 attacks and a 45% chance with his third.
Meaning he has a decent chance of at least landing 2 attacks, so it comes the wizards turn if he where to cast a spell or punch it he would invoke attacks of opportunity getting 3 attacks off meaning doing another probable 2 damage to the wizard killing him.
This is a domesticated cat, wtf is a level 1 wizard sieging your castle going to do if you send a FERAL CAT
Feral cats is clearly S tier as they stop enemy casters.
The wizard could cast defensively and use magic missile and unfortunately kill the cat.
Wait, you had domestic cats that could fist fight? Nice! That's even cooler than bites and scratches! Of course, combine those and it gets really mean.
Now just teach that to the feral cats!
The reason velociraptors are so hard to kill is cause of speed & stealth they have. Most of the time they just jump on top of people outta nowhere & rip them to shreads . Also we forget the kicking potential they might have like the emus .
Kicks OP. I can't believe there were no boot memes in this video. Hm.....war kangaroos? 🤔 🏰
@@TealWolf26 war emus ?? wait......that's already taken ?
Lions and tigers do the same and are still massacred by humans with no armour and a few guns.
@@questionmaker5666 uhhh , not really . You see there is a glorified idea of hunting large beasts where the brave hunter goes in the forest with his gun & as the beast jumps on him he takes out his gun in the nick of time & shoots it .
And then there is the sad reality where the hunter waits on a treetop with a bait animal at the bottom & from a safe distance he shoots the beast .
if you are in a very far off distance with a very good sniper & the raptors haven't noticed you ? sure , you can shoot them . But we are not talking about that perfect situation , are we ?? we are talking about either a chaotic battlefield or a lush swampy area where the animal can ambush you at any moment without giving you the chance to pull the trigger or aim for that matter.
@@shibalikchakraborty5344 There's nothing heroic about hunting so-called problem animals. You approach in a large tight group making lots of noise to drive the animal out of cover, or simply use fire, and then kill it with gunfire.
Against humans animals stand no chance, that's why so many have gone extinct or in danger of going so.
I love your tier list and the video, the only thing is that you bring up maneuverability of some swords and other weapons being wonky in castle defense but I feel the most polearms would be difficult as well, like halberd where part of their usage is to swing and hack into the enemy, also the tail end of some polearms with being an issue with positioning, anyways great video looking forward to every video
That was an amazing part of Stormlight
when i saw the picture of the machicolations, i turned the volume WAY down just from muscle memory..
51:25 well in the time the book was written, you could have use “velociraptor” as a word for a deinonychus, who are, in fact, far more similiar to the jp velociraptor
@@caml2602 i understand you but it is literally as i said, the jp velo is based on the today deinonychus, ofc it was also modified just as all of the other dinosaurs but what alan was digging at the beggining of the movie was today deinonychus
I was a dinosaur nerd before the first Jurassic Park. Velociraptor was always a separate genus to deinonychus in palaeontology. Crichton knowingly misnamed it in order to have a more dramatic name.
@@Draxynnic before the movie or book? Also, source? Just making sure since i wasnt even alive at that time
@@Gabiman66 Before both. There wasn't all that big a gap between them.
Jurassic Park Velociraptors were Deinonychus in the 80/90s when the book was written the scientific direction at the time was that the Deinonychus and the Velociraptor were in the same family because of similar bone structure. That's why the Deinonychus in question were called Velociraptors in the movie and book.
Cool video.