Spear Master Rates 9 Spear Fights in Movies and TV | How Real Is It? | Insider
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- čas přidán 23. 05. 2022
- Pole weapons expert Matt Easton rates nine polearm fight scenes in movies and TV, such as "Troy" and "Aquaman," for realism.
Easton discusses the accuracy of polearm scenes in "Troy" (2004), featuring Brad Pitt; "Aquaman" (2018), starring Jason Momoa; and "Black Panther" (2018), with Chadwick Boseman and Michael B. Jordan. He also comments on "The Mandalorian" (2020), "Vikings: Valhalla" (2022), and "The Suicide Squad" (2021), featuring Margot Robbie. Easton analyzes "Alexander" (2004); "The Lost Bladesman" (2011), starring Donnie Yen; and "Moonfleet" (1955).
Easton is the creator of the CZcams channel Scholagladiatoria, where he discusses historical European martial arts, or HEMA; combat; and historical-combat-related topics. He also teaches a fencing club in London and Surrey.
CZcams channel: / scholagladiatoria
Fencing club: www.swordfightinglondon.com/
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Spear Master Rates 9 Spear Fights in Movies and TV | How Real Is It? | Insider - Jak na to + styl
He talks later about how swings are done because they're visually impressive and thrusts often aren't and I think that's one place where Troy did very well. They made the thrusts seem dangerous and powerful and visually interesting
Not necessarily. If you swing the staff in a proper way and you are strong and fast you could smash people. There is records getting hit by the shaft due to a mistake but still gets defeated as it is too fast and powerful that it broke reps and thrown the person on the floor rolling meters across the ground.
combination wi
Matt your comment on the Chinas wepone is not in it is place. Those where used in that way. I wouldn't say fully accurate 100% but the philosophy here is completely different, from Europen west.
One primarily point is most of the techniques especially fundamentals used in many different weapons are similar and very similar to hand to hand fighting techniques which actually forms the base for weapon combat systems in Chinas martial arts. The reason same training or very similar training.
Also they don't fully rely on the weapon: Kicks and going intobthe enemy and out from the enemy are used in mixture with the weapon in high level techniques and fighters. Especially if multiple opponents.
The idea is to be more dynamic and quick in finding gaps by confusing and storming the enemy. They rely on physicality. The big weapons usually used by very strong individuals whom are tall and havey ones. Such weapons would not be used at lest not into techniques by an individuals of the actor size. Because the techniques used here are very advance and specific speciality (at lest if we put each technique by itself). This weapon in those techniques ment to be used very fast and quick despite it is size - hence used by very strong individuals - but also individuals in thick top teir heavy multi layered armor available.
As it is primarily actually not designed for the usecof a normal polarm but it is more like the Chinese version of the Dain Axe. It is an axe staff not a polarm or a spear. It is used to do big powerful big one swing velocity fast swing. Another reason why it is big guys weapon. It is usually 10kg sometimes heavier. Interms of center of weight it is different from a wepone to another as there is many different versions. But one used in that seen is more either just normal top havey or silty before the blade cut part. They get swing from top to bottom or silty from the side but no more less than 120 degrees not flat optimally. Likely sility less/more than 90 degrees (depending how you want to look at it). This version in particular is primarily used for in unite compat.
Where you have 10+ around u as a unit full armor to smash normal infantry. It is used by Tang.
They got to best used in the battle of Tales where they faced Abasised in eastern central asia. Where at lest 20k of them where there. They lost due to cavalry.
@@ailediablo79 God you are so obnoxious
its not necessary to "kill" or hurt someone! if you swing this pole around you make sure nobody comes close to you!
@@jussy1287 and the Troy example, he says a swing is bad because its like being hit in the face with a stick... well with a bit of metal on the end swung by a pro athlete... so yeah could easily kill or knock you out, break your nose take an eye, if it connects or just give you space 🤷🏻♂️
Great fun doing this! Spears and polearms need a lot more love in movies. Hope the viewers enjoyed this.
Jeeze Matt, you're just popping up on my feed everywhere, dont stop though 😋
How come you didn't review the Kingmonger vs T'Challa waterfall fight scene?
Suddenly your last few videos on spear thiccness don't seem so random
Always nice when I get a subscription crossover 👍
Do you also plan on doing some more of these?
I think it's important to note that Akhilleus is a demi-god, and even in the Iliad it is shown by his superior strength. So breaking a spear with his shield is a way to show how invincible he is, which is also why his fighting style is so "aerial", it's like he's flying through the battleground, breaking spears and shields, just like in the story.
True. Good balance without actually showing him fighting the river god lol.
While this is true, I think it's also worth pointing out that if Achilles was exerting enough force to snap Hector's spear in half, it would've been wrenched from his hand before it broke - probably would've broken Hec's wrist too
Interesting point Eric didn t think of that
I hear ya but Troy is a terrible film dramatically and doesn’t make any of that clear to the audience. It plays it like a straight faced historical drama. Terrible choice. I still watch it every few years though, because I love the Iliad so much.
Sort of like Superman catching Lois and going from terminal velocity to full stop in 18". Anyone who ever hit meat with a knife (or vice versa in this case) would know there would be 3 hunks of Lois on the ground.
The critique of the Mandalorian was on point...and entirely showcased the fact that Mando had no spear training and had only been carrying it as backup because his gun locker was destroyed.
Yeah that was my understanding as well. He received the spear, it wasn't a chosen weapon and he had no training in it at all.
Yup, that was my read on the scene. That the most training Din had that was sorta linked would have been early childhood use of something like a quarterstaff. He's a gunslinger by choice and training and was WAY out of his depth in that fight.
@@LiamMarcon I guess but like, spear is probably the easiest weapon to use with no training. Stick em with the pointy end. Your untrained natural reaction is going to be doing that anyway.
@@AWanderingSwordsmanexactly what I was going to say. They just wanted it to look dynamic
Why he didn't just slide the sword along the spear remove his fingers from his hand is baffling. 🙂
I think "Troy" was the last time we saw a battle scene that isn't just a dizzying mass of super-quick cuts and we could actually see what was happening. Immense kudos to the actors for this incredible choreography!
I also agree with the video that Troy was the best spear fight....
Just a shame the movie was completely inaccurate to the Iliad. Would’ve been great to see the Iliad fully realised, it’s such a great story.
@@teddywest-side6378 Sure, but it would be boring. That's why they hype up the sex and fighting.
@@bobzombie2710 nah I recon if you cut out descriptions of troops the Iliad is a better story. More fighting, gods and not making lovers their cousins 😂
@@teddywest-side6378 haha
That fight in Troy has always stood out. It is the perfect balance of being exciting and a little flashy while still looking like the two are actually trying to kill each other and looks very plausible.
Exactly, the flashiness works with this fight in particular, these are two Epic Heroes from when those words meant something. Hector, Prince and Guardian of Troy vs Achilles, greatest warrior in all of Greece. It would absolutely be a little flashier than if it were two regular soldiers fighting.
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. The important part is combining the reading with the inner work Jesus Christ taught. Forgiveness is the thing that makes it all click. To be forgiven we must forgive. The key is our parents. They’ve loved us to some degree, feeding raising clothing, etc. we all build up grievances there. Actually dealing with those issues, and genuinely forgiving from within is what makes it all click. Seriously,
@@jamesmayle3787 tHe BiBlE iS tRuE ... man sorry to break it to you but no one cares nowadays 😕
@@jamesmayle3787 Punching sand would be more productive then this attempt at conversion.
@@jamesmayle3787 no, it's full of myth and hubris spoken and written down by imperfect men before the scientific revolution. If you view it as a bunch of parables written down during a less informed time that still shows underlying values, you may be on to something, but calling it the outright truth is nutty. Sort of like calling Santa Claus as real solely because there's a good lesson about trying to be nice instead of naughty.
Historically speaking, spears were the weapon of choice. You could mass produce them. You didn't need a lot of training to be effective. They offered superior range. They were extraordinarily hard to read as thrusting is very hard to gauge distance. The actual weapon of choice for thousands of years.
There have been some recent discoveries that question the idea that the primary weapon of the vikings where spear, over 100 swords where fond in two graves in estonia, and in sweden there was a mass boat burial where everyone had swords buried with them
@@Bubajumbaswords were valuable and seen as a mark of pride. Of course they were buried with them.
@@DarthAxolotl It was more like a personal defense weapon and not a battlefield one. Nobility carried swords around during daily life as both a status symbol and light defense to fend off robbers and 'protect one's honor'. Same as a lot of ornamental pistols. Eventually we replaced them with canes. Like Andrew Jackson would've absolutely run around with a loaded pistol and rapier if he were born in a different century but in the mid 1800s that was considered a bit too barbaric.
I wonder if Achilles breaking the spear like that was more a nod to his strength. Ah well. Would love to get his thoughts on that short fight in the beginning of Fearless with Jet Li
Also spears then we're made to be broken so if you threw it they couldn't pick it up and use it on you.
The fight between Jet Li and Donnie Yen’s characters in Hero would have been a wonderful inclusion. It might not be realistic at all, but it sure is one of the most gorgeous fights (and movies for that matter) ever shot to film.
@@jamiethomas527 that was only for javelins and only after the Roman times.
His strength / possible divinity, yes. That's how I perceived it.
Im with you on this, his strength was pretty OP (remember when he threw the spear super far)
I think Achilles breaking the shaft with shield may have been a cinematic choice to show his demi-god strength. Fair breakdowns though. Love the analysis
To me the issue is that unless the spear is braced against something, it's not going to break--it'll just move. Even Hector breaking Achilles spear has the same problem, to an extent--the spear would just get pushed to the ground unless Achilles really holds onto it and doesn't let it move.
@@crusherven It’ll still break even if it’s unsupported if hit hard enough. The inertia of the spear itself can be enough resistance. But you’re right, the spear should have moved much more under an impact that violent.
I dunno, the movie seemed to be going for a story with no supernatural elements. However, Achilles was so effective at fighting multiple opponents that you could argue that there was something supernatural about him.
@@crusherven It might have been, we can see Hector trying to trap the opponent's spear with his own so he probably planted the end into the ground, otherwise he wouldn't be able to get any force at all between his spear and his body or shield. Still a dubious move because these spears don't have a large head or lugs, so it would be hard to stop it from being pulled back with just friction, but it at least makes the breaking more plausible.
Also it was forged by Hephaestus its not just a normal shield. Also you re right the strength is also a factor and the momentum.
Give us more Matt Easton! He’s got crazy history knowledge as well as excellent knowledge of historical martial arts. Dude deserves to be in more of your reaction videos.
Totally agree. He's been a real OG Weapon expert on CZcams for a while.
@@Fulgrim_The_Phoenician Scholagladiatoria is by far my favorite HEMA based channel.
100 percent right
Matt your comment on the Chinas wepone is not in it is place. Those where used in that way. I wouldn't say fully accurate 100% but the philosophy here is completely different, from Europen west.
One primarily point is most of the techniques especially fundamentals used in many different weapons are similar and very similar to hand to hand fighting techniques which actually forms the base for weapon combat systems in Chinas martial arts. The reason same training or very similar training.
Also they don't fully rely on the weapon: Kicks and going intobthe enemy and out from the enemy are used in mixture with the weapon in high level techniques and fighters. Especially if multiple opponents.
The idea is to be more dynamic and quick in finding gaps by confusing and storming the enemy. They rely on physicality. The big weapons usually used by very strong individuals whom are tall and havey ones. Such weapons would not be used at lest not into techniques by an individuals of the actor size. Because the techniques used here are very advance and specific speciality (at lest if we put each technique by itself). This weapon in those techniques ment to be used very fast and quick despite it is size - hence used by very strong individuals - but also individuals in thick top teir heavy multi layered armor available.
As it is primarily actually not designed for the usecof a normal polarm but it is more like the Chinese version of the Dain Axe. It is an axe staff not a polarm or a spear. It is used to do big powerful big one swing velocity fast swing. Another reason why it is big guys weapon. It is usually 10kg sometimes heavier. Interms of center of weight it is different from a wepone to another as there is many different versions. But one used in that seen is more either just normal top havey or silty before the blade cut part. They get swing from top to bottom or silty from the side but no more less than 120 degrees not flat optimally. Likely sility less/more than 90 degrees (depending how you want to look at it). This version in particular is primarily used for in unite compat.
Where you have 10+ around u as a unit full armor to smash normal infantry. It is used by Tang.
They got to best used in the battle of Tales where they faced Abasised in eastern central asia. Where at lest 20k of them where there. They lost due to cavalry.
@@ailediablo79 who are you talking to?
Great evaluation, I found Troy simply stunning, the fact that weapons were used accurately gives it even more credibility.
As a (very) former re-enactor, I have to agree with Mr Easton on the deadliness of spears in combat. More kills are racked up by spears than any other close combat weapon. A 2H axe is flashy and grabs an opponent's attention, sword and shield gives a good defence, but it's the spear that best takes advantage of a fleeting opening.
That's one of two reason why the spear was by far the most used battlefield weapon for almost all of history (really up until the invention of gunpowder)
It was among the most effective weapons and it was also fairly cheap to make
Movies almost always don't have enough polearms in their battles
@@basilmagnanimous7011 Yeah, and I hate the argument that 'who cares it's not real' because it does give people wrong impressions about reality
@@Trepur349 It also appears lazy to me. I would love to see more representation of weapons that are barely used in fiction.
@@Trepur349 *up to and including, since what is a bayonet on a long firearm but a very fancy spear?
It isn't until somewhere around breech-loading firearms to smokeless powder that the bayonet starts to become a secondary for infantry, automatic weapons when the bayonet starts to be an afterthought, and an array of reliable, automatic small-arms that we even begin to see some infantry commonly without bayonets.
@@bluerendar2194 Yeah I guess technically true, but for most of the 16th and 17th century the musket was the most used battlefield weapon and pikes were a somewhat close second
The more time went on the more pikes and other polearms fell out of favour, which in large part was due to bayonets basically allowing a solider to similtaneously be a spearman and a musketman
But it was the first time in history the primary purpose of the primary battlefield weapon wasn't to have the reach advantage in a meelee
because gunpowder changed the game
That Troy duel is kinda nice honestly, there's the flair of the climatic battle and the realism
As much as I cringed at the weird across the shoulders, over the spear thrust that Achilles did, it was done to show that he’s Achilles, the greatest warrior of his day. So I guess it gets a pass ;P
@@CharlieNoodles exactly Achilles was the MJ of his time and his style was was so advanced that he could do these unorthodox moves. Many athletes across all sports develop certain quirks when they’ve mastered it.
It's also a certain amount of "These people are Legends. Even the guy who lost was so good at fighting that people knew his name a thousand, maybe two, years later when these stories were put to text." Like, these people are capital H Heroes.
I remember watching a behind the scenes bit about this fight and it was said that since Achilles was a demigod, his fighting style was influenced by that of the gods, and that even in defense he's always attacking.
@@cleverusername9369 yep. That fight is almost perfect.
That Troy fight was astounding to see the first time in theaters. Still the best ancient world fight in my mind.
I agree, and the sound of the action was highlighted, they kept all music out of the original cut, and just had some percussion, it sounded amazing
Maximus vs Tigris of Gaul is an amazing ancient fight too
Yes indeed!
Even in Japan, the primary weapons of the Samurai have been THE BOW + THE SPEAR.
The spear is a tremendeous weapon.
That’s interesting. You always think of the katana with a samurai.
@@edbrooke75 Katana is easy to carry around when you're off duty so people tend to think that it's main weapon of samurai. But in reality, Spear and bow are their weapons of choice, katana is more like a dagger to finish enemies off when they are down.
@@edbrooke75 @dokumaru8224 Another way to think of it is, a soldier might carry a rifle into battle, but have a handgun as a back up. The Katana was the sidearm of the samurai.
Yari Ashigaru supremacy, Naginata Samurai is my favourite
@@elkingoh4543 Yari, da!!!! 💪💪💪
What about Game of Thrones scene with the single combat between The Mountain and The Viper (Gregor Clegane vs Oberyn Martell)?
The viper uses a spear and is very skilled. The scene shows how a smaller guy can beat a much bigger guy with different weapons and skills.
Go to his channel, he made many videos commenting GoT fights.
@@stanhauser Many thanks! I'm just saying that that fight in particular was spear vs sword, and the spearman very skillful.
I’m sure that fight would have been roasted for Oberyn’s spinning the spear and flipping around, but would’ve gotten kudos for the stab into the Mountain’s leg. Probable rating: 5 or 6 to this guy, although to us fans, it was a solid 8-9.
@@rdpaikthe thing is though that even spinning the spear and not thrusting with it was effective in that fight due to the spear tip being poisoned. Single scratch from it and the Mountain was a goner (without Qyburn's supernatural ways ofc).
Holy CONTEXT it's Matt Easton, a damn pleasure seeing him do some content like this
On pole arms too, the real weapons and kings of ancient battles, especially the spear, you love to see it.
A lot of the viewers don’t understand this, but this is the best comment here 😂
That fight in Troy between Achilles and Hector is one of my favorite fights of all time on screen. You can really get the sense during the fight of how Hector is a really competent fighter, but even so Achilles is just in his own higher class and style. Troy is an ok movie, but that particular scene really stood out.
jup. especially achilles resting the spear on his back is basically just him showing off how much better he is then hector
Always been one of my favorite movies for the duels. The spear fight usage always struck a cord with me because the thrust seemed so much more realistic to mean.
I really like this movie... and I agree that this fight was probably my favorite.
It doesn't matter how many times I see this movie, I always hope Hector will win.
@@ghandiah @Mark Phillips I'm with you on that. I've never seen Achilles as a hero figure.
Hector knows he is going to die but still goes out to fight Achilles because he is fighting for his home city and family. Fighting when you know you will lose is courageous. In the Iliad itself, Hector says he knows that one day the city will fall but he still fights on.
Achilles knows he is going to win so I can't see much courage in that. In the film's fight scene he's even surprised to actually suffer Hector's successful blow to his chest. Achilles is fighting for a corrupt king he doesn't even respect. His aim is to win personal glory. He fights Hector in revenge for his pain at losing Patroclus even though he has been the means of causing the same pain to countless others himself, with less just cause. He also has unearned advantages in being the son of a goddess. I can't see much courage in him or much to admire in his situation. Unfortunately, the best people are often not the ones to survive, one of the points Homer was trying to make in the Iliad I suspect.
The spear is the greatest weapon of antiquity by a long mile. The 2nd would likely be the sling, but the spear allowed empires to rise and fall.
Indeed. The spear was very versatile. It's a great weapon. That's why it was used for thousands of years. The Caroleans were still using them in their formations until the 1700s!!
@@nasis18 Not only that! But I wager bayonets count as modern day spears too! Maybe not as elegant, but if your spear fires bullets, you won't have to make it throwable.
Just a friendly reminder that you're probably referring to slings and not slingshots as one of the great weapons of antiquity. Slingshots refer to the football goalpost style of projectile launcher, slings are the projectile launcher that rely on violent spinning motion prior to release.
@@dissolution9843 correct, although I’m 100% certain you knew what I meant :)
spears were the main weapons in ancient wars. swords were secondary
Good job inviting Matt - scholagladiatoria is one of the best channels when it comes to historical weapons and their use
I will always argue 1 small point for Troy. Brad Pitts footwork in that movie is so utterly insanely perfect it deserves a 10/10 for that alone. Drilling proper footwork takes forever and he just kills it
The fight choreography was done by 2 Filipino Martial arts instructors. They stressed balance and footwork to Brad Pitt.
I'll also add that the shield breaking the spear shaft was made easier because of the braced position it got caught in just before it was struck.
I would also argue that he seems to ignore the efficacy of hitting someone in the face with a pole (metal capped one too). he says it will make a guy flinch but not do much damage but I am not sure that is true. Would also open him up to being hit again and allow Hector to take the initiative against a normal guy.. That and him seeming not to care that Achilles is a demigod so breaking the spear with a shield isnt that hard to believe...
@@rossg4788
My piano teacher stressed keys and footwork but I couldn't get the hang of it.
The movie was crap tho.
I'd say that the spear break with the shield is ok in this film, but only for Achilles.
Don't forget Achilles is meant to be super-hero-ish in this film. Slightly later on you see Achilles stab at Hector's shield with his short sword, the strike almost knocks Hector off of his feet. No human is THAT strong, especially when striking a highly trained warrior.
Yes, Achilles is a demigod, (Well he's half-Nereid anyway). He's incredibly strong and functionally invulnerable, so equating anything he does with anything a human might do is largely missing the point.
This.
And Hector is also partway to that superhero idea as well, almost a Batman, to Archilles' superman, which makes it fair that he can snap a spear by trapping and stomping on it.
And the shaft of a Trojan's spear is probably not nearly as strong as a modern/late medieval spear.
In mythology, yes. In the movie he was a human. He says that if he was invincible as the Legends they tell about him, he wouldn't need a shield.
The movie isn't mythological. He isn't the son of a Nereid trained by a centaur here.
@@simon-pierrelussier2775. Why not?
It’s a piece of wood. In fact there would be more wood and better wood.
I’ve never used a spear, but I have done sword arts. From what I can tell about “swinging” the spear around, like in the first video and in Troy, the spear is used more for distance. So by “swinging” the spear towards the enemy’s eyes will force the enemy back to gain a better fighting distance. This is my opinion and it seems right. If anyone has another idea or has a reason why this idea is bad, then I would love to hear about it.
if you swing it around like that there is a huge timing in which you can rush past the spear and get in close at which point the spear user loses their advantage
Spear swinging was used but not in the way Hollywood typically portrays. I remember a documentary that showcased Gaelic spearmen and it said they would use short swings followed immediately by thrusts. It controlled distance and made it more difficult to anticipate the angle of the thrusts. It could be effective when outnumbered and nearly surrounded. So the swing is used to set up a thrust, whereas in Hollywood they usually portray the swing as the primary attack.
Love seeing ANYTHING Matt Easton does!
Thank you, sir
Finally they got an actual HEMA expert.
Sadly there’s a lot of comments about weaponry usage like they experts hahahah
@@Jeffro5564 In the comments everyone's an expert. Personally I'm also a pro at handling long-shafted implements. :)
Take in mind that many hema manuscripts were written by the kind of guys youd see nowadays in central park demonstrating how to beat 7 ninjas with a chopstick. Most the legit ones had never been in battle, or a real fight. The few who had really stand out.
Hema is for duels, and often had strict rules. Chances are you wouldn't have employed the technique in a real fight.
I'm no great martial artist... and often demolish hema nuts just with aggression and a solid defense.
Matt Easton knows a good range, which is brilliant though. I'd trust him at my side.
My argument is against hema as a whole. There just is no real way to tell who in history was a braggard laying it in thick.
Historians look at legendary knights and assume a lot of their deeds were exaggerated.
Hema fans look at every manuscript as sacred gospel.
@@AnotherDuck We don't want to hear about your husband.
@@13thcentury Very little is known about the actual lives of the authors of most treatises so there's really not enough evidence to support your claim they werent professional duelists or participated in military campaigns. It could be one or the other or neither there typically isnt enough evidence to say one way or another.
What "HEMA nuts" are you actually sparring with? It's a small community and the _vast_ majority are casual students not even close to the level of even semi-professionals. I see you're a Brit and while there are some decent HEMA competitors that have made it to finals in Swordfish from the UK the majority are Northern and Eastern European so your sample and your anecdotal experience isnt exactly definitive.
HEMA training can overvalue treatises but HEMA in sparring, especially at higher levels, is about testing which strategies from historical manuscripts are most effective. And most high level competitors show bias towards certain methods that they have thoroughly tested through extensive, high intensity sparring experience.
Interesting that Hector's moves are plausible while Achilles' moves are not. I'd like to believe that that was on purpose. Achilles was, even in this movie universe, capable of doing things that were scarcely human. Hector commented that Achilles threw the spear like no one he had ever seen before. I like that the movie makers gave him moves that were just beyond what humans were capable of. It plays into his "greatest of all time warrior" image.
@F. S. I love how you argument x)
@F. S. well, achilles is a demigod in myth so it isnt total bs when you think about it.
@@othisdede8027 exactly. he's only half human. wish he would have added a critique for the neck spear stab at the beginning. that seemed very plausible for someone with world class talent in their field and not requiring his demigod status but could easily be seen as supernatural talent back in those times I would imagine.
I'd also say that Troy took place roughly 2850 years ago and breaking their spears with a shield is probably possible due to the crafting of the weapons possibly not being as good as what you could make today
i think that Achilles also being blessed by the gods with demi strength helps him do things different also
Troy is superbly choreographed, but you also need to understand, not only is it set around the time of exodus, so 1100BC, but Achilles is obviously meant to be mythologically good at fighting. So him breaking Hectors spear isn't supposed to be all that crazy.
It's a nice but unlikely theory considering in the same fight Hector also broke Achillle's spear quite easily. And if we want to be be realistic and pedantic about it, even if Achilles had slight super strength or godly fighting skills the spear would've been knocked off Hector's hand instead of snapping like a twig.
Either way Troy's duel is unique, original, and one of the best in cinema thanks to the use of spears instead of swords.
@@bryanclarke8107 Yeah the spear would have moved with the blow and take the punch out of it. Hector breaking it was a bit more realistic since the spear was against the ground so it had nowhere to go.
Troy is an awesome movie. And btw, the Exodus more likely happened around 1450 BC during the reign of Pharoah Tutmose III
@@bryanclarke8107but hector was also considered slightly more than human. So it absolutely could work out. Youre thinking in very one dimensional terms
@@skeletorlikespotatoes7846 What are you talking about? Thinking in very one dimensional terms?
You seem to be conflating "more strength" = "can break spear like that more easily", but the issue here is not that they wouldn't be strong enough or "skilled enough", but that the physics just wouldn't play out as portrayed in Troy. If you hit the spears with demigodly superhuman strength in the positions they were in, held in the way they were, the spears would get ripped out from the wielders' hands, unless you also want to say the two fighters had demigodly superhuman "grip" strength with their fingers and hands enough to hold the spears in place for the spears to snap the way they did
Go ahead and try to snap a pencil's top portion off like it did in the movie by holding it with two fingers and trying swinging something fast and heavy across the top and see if it doesn't just whip out of your fingers. Try to hold a pencil by pinching from above and slamming down the bottom portion with something akin to a small foot and see if it doesn't just fall from your fingers.
Loving his instruction on how the weapon is to be used, not only what is done inaccurately in the movies!
I LOVED the fight scenes in Troy. Especially the Duel with Hector.
It really "felt" real. (like they studied actual "ancient greek" fighting styles)
Glad it earned a good rating.
Yeah Troy's fight scenes are great, I love how they realistically dodge and weave about
Yeah that 1 on 1 battle in Troy was really good even though when looking at it Achilles was dominating Hektor. Hektor was close at 1 point i think scratching the lether armore but other then that Achilles was toying with him. The producer did a very good job not making it look as 1 sided as it really was.
The stun man who worked on this movie said they did it wrong. The correct way to hold the spear was too hard to made it interesting so they did the way they did.
well it is the best fight scene ever recorded in history of film.
It's hard to balance the "realistic" and "cinematic" aspects. I think Troy as a fairly successful movie did a really great job in that.
The Achilles v Hector fight is one of my favorite bits of visual story telling. It's clear from that outset that Hector is highly skilled, but completely outclassed. From moment one the outcome is clear, but man fights superman and displays exceptional courage against the inevitable. The moment when he strikes and scores Achilles' armor was moral victory and the complete lack of respect Achilles gives this honorable warrior defending his home makes you feel the outrage against Achilles for his transgressions.
no lol i was glad when he murdered him, and tied him to his carriage, all hail Achilles
Hector new he would lose from the first meeting.
Yeah that might be how the movie framed it, but in the real story the Trojans kidnapped Hellen and refused to give her back. By all metrics they started and prolonged the war and suffering of their own people because of one horny prince who wanted a queen as his sex slave.
@@spikem5950 Helen was largely a casus belli for Menelaus and Paris’ crime the perfect excuse for the Greek City States to crush one of their main rivals in the Mediterranean. A focus that hasn’t been really had in any version of the story I’ve seen is on Helen as a tragic figure. Born of the rape of her mother by Zeus, who’s great beauty was as much curse as blessing through her life and then reviled by the Greeks afterwards.
there are versions of the story where achilles and hektor are all but equal in their fight, which shocks achilles, because achilles is a fuckin demigod while hektor is just a man.
I was very happy to hear this gentleman state at 8:50 that a "spear person can beat two sword wielders". I've seen other docs on precisely this (mind, we are talking about opposition of equal ability, of course). It's one of the reasons I've been a strong fan of spears as combat weapons. Considering they are no doubt the absolute oldest weapons man has been using and are still used today, they've got a lot going for them. :)
I still love swords of course. They are very beautiful weapons but you need to be VERY good with them also.
I think that is subjective, if you are skilled with a sword it will take 2 spear wielders to have a chance of bringing you down. he is right about keeping the distance tho, once you close that gap with a spear user they are toast.
@@davidvesey-brown7171 No, this has been tested, a skilled swordsman is about an equal match for an untrained spearman. A well trained spearman, and the swordsman doesn't stand a chance (unless he has a shield to negate the spears massive reach advantage)
There's a reason why swords were considered sidearms while spears where considered primary weapons. The main advantage of the sword was it's convenience, that you could just have it by your side, which is why they were the most preferred weapon for self-defense, you didn't have to worry about carrying this overly large weapon at all times, you can wear a sword at the hip much more easily than you can wear any other weapon (axes/maces have weird weight balancing to carry their and polearms are much too large). But if you had a choice before a combat of any weapon, all else equal you'd chose a polearm.
@@Trepur349 as a martial artist of many years this has not been my experience. If this were the case armies would not have really used the sword at all. You wouldn't have roman formations of gladius and shield as the key army formations with spears being used on the cheap troops etc. When you break it down you can dismiss the spear myth. While the spear has these advantages...cheap, easy to produce, good vs cavalry, easy for beginners etc. A well trained swordsmen will win. In a duel scenario. But it takes time to be good with a sword. You can't just throw untrained farmers a sword.
@@davidvesey-brown4683 I mean for the most part armies didn't use swords, they were a side arm, they were if you lost your main weapon (or in the case of spearman got into to close with the enemy to use your spears effectively)
Swords were more a weapon of the gentleman then a weapon of battle, which is why they became so popular but only after all these other weapons became irrelvant thanks to gunpowder.
@@davidvesey-brown4683 The main battlefield weapon of the Romans was the spear, the Gladius was used after they got in close with their enemy. The Triarii their most elite soldiers, where equiped only with spears.
But also shields played a factor, as I said, shields lower the advantage of spear over sword, and the romans had bigger shields than most, so the gladius played a lot larger of a role for Romans then swords did for anyone else
Great commentary! Very well explained :) 👍
Always happy to see Matt being brought on to review things, he has such a wealth of knowledge and context when it comes to European weapons.
Spear is spear! (Insert Mr Incredibly)
He has a firm grip on his shafted weapon as always.
(Its pretty much a intern joke w him and his audience at this time)
When Troy came out in theaters, a friend of mine said that he for the first time understood how dangerous a spear can be.
Your friend didnt think a spear was dangerous before he saw a movie 😂
@@ntc1998 There are some kind of people they need to keep reminding themselves to apreciate the worth of something...so don't be surprised...
for me that movie was lord of the rings made me realize how strong spears could be
@@ntc1998 he said HOW dangerous a spear can be. Learn to read, Junebug
@@ntc1998 Spears are usually shown as inferior weapons to swords in most computer games. If you mainly grow up with gaming and have no understanding of weapons apart from the texts derived from there you have no idea how weapons are really used and how dangerous they could be. I got it even worse, I grew up with the Digedags, where a knight just casually slices through two crossed spears because he wanted to pass the guards. If you think that spears can be cut that easily (and that is a popular belief as Matt said), then spears appear far less dangerous.
Love it, as soon as I saw the video I immediately recognized this history enthusiast. Ma boi, Matt Easton. Cheers to you!
I like the professionalism of this man, nice video to watch
Always a pleasure to see Matt Easton on channels like this getting the expert status he so rightly deserves
Matt your comment on the Chinas wepone is not in it is place. Those where used in that way. I wouldn't say fully accurate 100% but the philosophy here is completely different, from Europen west.
One primarily point is most of the techniques especially fundamentals used in many different weapons are similar and very similar to hand to hand fighting techniques which actually forms the base for weapon combat systems in Chinas martial arts. The reason same training or very similar training.
Also they don't fully rely on the weapon: Kicks and going intobthe enemy and out from the enemy are used in mixture with the weapon in high level techniques and fighters. Especially if multiple opponents.
The idea is to be more dynamic and quick in finding gaps by confusing and storming the enemy. They rely on physicality. The big weapons usually used by very strong individuals whom are tall and havey ones. Such weapons would not be used at lest not into techniques by an individuals of the actor size. Because the techniques used here are very advance and specific speciality (at lest if we put each technique by itself). This weapon in those techniques ment to be used very fast and quick despite it is size - hence used by very strong individuals - but also individuals in thick top teir heavy multi layered armor available.
As it is primarily actually not designed for the usecof a normal polarm but it is more like the Chinese version of the Dain Axe. It is an axe staff not a polarm or a spear. It is used to do big powerful big one swing velocity fast swing. Another reason why it is big guys weapon. It is usually 10kg sometimes heavier. Interms of center of weight it is different from a wepone to another as there is many different versions. But one used in that seen is more either just normal top havey or silty before the blade cut part. They get swing from top to bottom or silty from the side but no more less than 120 degrees not flat optimally. Likely sility less/more than 90 degrees (depending how you want to look at it). This version in particular is primarily used for in unite compat.
Where you have 10+ around u as a unit full armor to smash normal infantry. It is used by Tang.
They got to best used in the battle of Tales where they faced Abasised in eastern central asia. Where at lest 20k of them where there. They lost due to cavalry.
Absolutely. So refreshing to see my niche interests appreciated by people not interested in HEMA
@@taylorfusher2997 By prayer and support from cavalry lol
@@ailediablo79 - I guess somebody, perhaps Matt himself, have forgotten Matt is big, tall, and strong Westerner, and many Orientals who use Kwan Do are shorter, smaller and weaker than Matt. It is fine to talk of Kwan Do of 10Kg to 50+Kg in use. But the majority would train with and prefer lighter versions of less than 10 lbs. Matt might have missed the perspective from many Chinese treaties that the Kwan Do is actually swing the way as depicted in the film. The Chinese body tends to be weaker than those of Westerners, so it is feasible to hit the opponent with the spear shaft as a pole or strong stick. The Chinese body would tend to break or get hurt much easier than a trained Western body. To hit a big strong Westerner or a trained martial artist with iron skin work with a wooden stick would be like a breeze or a massage to him.
A few years ago, a June 4 protester at a protest in front of the CCP Consulate hit me repeatedly with his protest sign trying to inflict much harm. I guess he(wicked, evil, self-righteous, democracy loving? and sinful) thought that would be some very nasty even grievous attack.
Easy for Chinese to imagine they are inflicting great harm with their martial art and weapon. More realistic in the Western way of training with great hard targets destroyed(or the hand weapon tested to destruction) in training. You then learned what can actually destroy what in real contact.
There actually are spears and Kwan Do on steel pole. I have such weapon as well. It hits like a strong pole. So although steel spear is heavy, slower and stronger than wooden spears it is not unreasonable to encounter that in battle. They are also called silver spear or silver Kwan do because their pole is shinny metallic.
East is East and West is West our Worlds are far apart. What is not possible in one culture or realm can be daily routine in another. We can still learn from the stand point and perspective of all kinds of experts, masters.
@@MtRevDr you are right but also wrong. You just been racist. Yes the western body is taugher especially considering back then on avg. But that is average. Many different gens in east Asia don't have that problem. Mongolias are one example.
Matt is not that strong, i don't think he weight is higher than 100kg. He is too lean and slim.
There is mixed people back then like half Chinese and half Mongolian... even way back then. Fir example many of Chinese heroes are half Mongolian half Chinese. For example LuBu.
Also those from warrior based military rich families are equal to western side.
There is still even going back to 7 warring states period, many unites, individuals and generals whom 1.9m, 2m, 2.2m. Some even close to 3m duch as LuBu and QuangYo. There was numbers wise more 1.9m tall soldiers in China than there is legendaries in Rome. Of course that is just numbers but % wise it is slow. However that is the thing east Asia is a whole universe and world on its self. You can find everything.
Do you know individuals like LeeXin, LanPo, WangYi, PangNuan Hou-Ken, Ba Kai, Teng, MengWu, MengAo, BaJio, Lei Qiang, Gong Biao, Wa Lin, Han Ming, Lin Wu Jun.
Just to name few. All 1.9m and over ,except for few and all great warriors.
Speed and quickness is the most important.
1:59 "If you've got a sharp point, use the sharp point"
He makes a sharp point
That spear/sword fight in Troy is one of my favorite fights of all time.
Damn, I was really hoping he'd cover the Oberyn vs Mountain fight scene from GoT.
Also important to remember Achilles was a demigod in this story, not a mortal man.
Another point, Macedonian Phalanx wasn't simply a pike phalanx. The changes to the Phalanx made by Phillip The II were world breaking. The Hypaspist and rank changes can not be overstated when comparing to the phalanx before it.
Yeah, mixing the Macedonian phalanx and traditional Greek phalanx made of hoplites doesn't sound good. It's like putting a musketeer against modern soldier. Both of them have guns but that's where the comparison ends. Also, phalangites did have a way to protect themselves from arrows. This was done by waving the sarissas in hopes of blocking or deflecting the incoming projectiles. How effective this was I don't know but they certainly did that.
@@crashoveryu yes I have also heard that about them using the spears to block arrows. At first it sounds odd although several ranks with 10ft spears all pointing them in the right direction in unision, perhaps that could well provide some bonus defence against a volley of arrows. One things for sure, the Macedonian army had incredible success on campaign against multiple large armies so in that respect it is hard to imagine them not having good resilience to ranged attack.
@@swan5446A slight correction, several ranks didn't all point their spears in the same direction. If we think of angles, the front ranks would hold their spears at zero degrees, and as you get deeper into the ranks they would hold the spears at higher angles until the back ranks are almost at 90 degrees. It gave more coverage against arrows by presenting something akin to a hedgehog
He missed something in Troy… if you watch closely, Achilles actually cuts the spear a few times before breaking it. He was planning from the start, and attacking the staff with his blade to prep for a break.
Pretty cool.
Really? Cool minor detail I think everyone, myself included, missed. Now I need to rewatch it. Cheers!
Now that you mentioned it I remember them putting attention on Achilles hitting the spear multiple times leading up to that.
It also helps that Achilles is in fact Achilles and not some mortal man. Being a demigod does bend some rules.
@@danielreshef5299 The thing about Troy, though, is that it was more "grounded" as if the gods and demigods didn't exist. I personally love that as it makes Achilles far more a "perfect" specimen of man born as a fighter and less requiring that any form of "god-dom" made him better. He was fearless, his reflexes were off the charts and he was exceedingly competent in combat. As a man in combat with him, THAT is what I would fear.
Funny you would use the word perfect, as in the Illiad which this movie is based on, the whole point of the story is to show just how imperfect this son of a goddess really is and how his pride and ubris led to his demise and that of his most beloved friend / probable lover.
Troy is one of those few movies that give spears some respect, the way Achilles uses the spear is badass, more videogame developers should learn from this. Anything can be cool in fantasy with proper imagination.
Can hardly remember the last time a spear was even IN a western medieval/fantasy video game. Dark souls/Elden Ring doesn't count, since it's a japanese game, not a western one.
I really like the use of spears in the recent Assassins Creed games!
@@henrikaugustsson4041 for honor has spear characters
Chivalry 2 has a nice spear.
It hurts my heart to see people downplay spears and their awesomeness in reality compared to swords, but it’s not surprising when you see almost all of media making them out to be anything but what they are
6:30 Forget the spear shaft breaking; look at that spear head bending against the shield! 🤣🤣
Was about to comment just that😂
I am very glad you are featuring Mister Easton, he is amazing and I am his fan.
For Mando, I think it does a great example. He’s never used a spear, he’s clueless and they show us that.
Too often the hero picks up a weapon that to our knowledge they know nothing about yet still wield it like a pro.
I appreciate that Mando has no idea what to do with the spear
That's very fair, same reason I wasn't upset that he couldn't use a lightsaber well at all
Yeah but the point is (pun semi intended) that spears don't require a lot of training to be used somewhat competently.
(mind you, obviously makes sense someone who has never held one and never seen a battlefield wouldn't know how to precisely strike weak points or find gaps in a defensive stance or how to read an opponent or the like)
The idea however that the pointy end of your long stick should go into the other guy without him getting close to you, ideally, is something you have a rough grasp on instinctively.
And Mando got a LOT more overall fighting expertise than a great deal of conscripts using spears during feudal times.
In some way he is doing WORSE than conscripted farmers here. That's a bit much.
I agree with everything, but there weren't many conscript soldiers in the medieval period
Strong disagree. Doesn't take a master to understand how a spear works (you stab).
Mando is a class-A example of terrible filmmaking at every level.
6:13 he broke it easily because Achilles is depicted as a demigod with supernatural strength. He also threw a spear from a football field range with regular throwing stance so that also shows his unnatural enhanced strength.
imo this shows just how impressive Hector really is. Going toe to toe with a greek demigod and performing similar techniques against him.
Experts always watch the movies as if they are viewing these people as in the real world when they are not because they have superhuman strenght and speed and abilities that humans in the real world does not.
If he hit it with enough power to break it in half, he would've actually just knocked it clean out of Hector's hand. For Hector to be holding on tight enough for the spear to break, he'd have to have the exact same supernatural demigod strength as Achilles, much more than mere training or willpower could provide.
Momentum and the transfer of force matters. It's another side of the same basic physics that wouldn't let a stationary Superman catch Lois Lane at terminal velocity.
Hector is also a demigod, so makes not much difference.
Also it depends on the thickness of the spear and the type of wood that comprises it.
In the film the spear Hector holds looks thinner than the one Matt holds but also note the wood, Matt's is likely English Oak which is also a denser wood, Greek spears would likely not be as dense, especially if they are used as throwing weapons
I really like how they portrayed Achilles They showed that he can do impossible things most men can't. But those things also aren't totally unbelievable. Except for the football field spear throw, all the other movements and attacks he does look doable you know. They portay him as like a perfect human not an actual god.
I do have a gripe with your review of the fight of swordsman vs naginata(I think that's what they're called), as you said, it has a massive head, he probably had to give up the reach for control.
My main problem with spears in movies is that there is not enough of them. For most of human history spears (especially spear and shield) was incredibly popular. And for good reason: they are cheap, relatively easy to use and very effective. But they look less fancy than a swords, so we get lots of sword fights in movies that realistically should have been spear fights.
Exactly, swords were more like a sidearm for most civilizations, the one big exception that comes to mind is Rome.
Once the Stormlight Archive gets movies Kaladin will have a good showing with his spear
That's true in video games too. There are no spears in Skyrim for example.
@@Slender_Man_186 Yeah but they kind of used their sword as a spear. Also they all had javelins on them. The "Pilum". Which could be used as a spear in a pinch. Ceasar's legions once used the pilum as a spear to counter Pompey's cavalry in the battle of Pharsalus for example.
@@Slender_Man_186 Rome's main weapon was the shield and tactics.
One of my big issues with Hollywood multiple opponent fights is that the protagonist's adversaries who are supposed to be throughly trained, exhibit a good deal of incompetence. A good example of what happens in reality is the demise of the pirate Red Beard, (the first one, his brother.) While under siege he attempted to break out, and while fighting valiantly with his men (and being the last one standing) 13 Spanish spear men working together surrounded him and killed him.
To be honest. If you are surrounded by 13 spearmen. It does not matter how good of a fighter you are. You will be stabbed to death sooner or later. Unless there is enough range between you and them so that you can shoot them down before they get within stabbing range.
There is one scene in The Dark Knight Rises where one goon just falls down for no reason while "fighting" Batman. Just see yourself, it's hilarious /watch?v=j2tE-BCwZtw ( It's CinemaSins video ) and go to 0:45
@@taylorfusher2997 Against missile troops hoplites were not supposed to stand there subjecting themselves to a hail of arrows and sling stones for long periods of time. They were to charge them ASAP if they could pin them against a terrain feature, like at Marathon or Plataea, or they should have their own missile troops face them, like during the March of the Ten Thousand.
If they were caught in a position where the enemy light troops could rain missiles at them for a long time with impunity they would likely lose, as it happened in Sphacteria and Lecheaum. I suppose they could try having their front ranks kneel behind their shields to reduce their exposed area like they did in the movie 300, but thats not really solving the main problem.
Javelins are much slower moving compared to arrows and sling stones, and hence easier to spot, dodge or parry.
@@HaNsWiDjAjA Yep, a phalanx could “close ranks” against missiles by having the front rank kneel. However, there was never a good way to defend the corners and flanks without opening gaps.
@@WisdomThumbs Exactly, like I said a phalanx's response to a hail of missiles would be to: 1) charge the shooters if they think they could catch them, or otherwise 2) have their cavalry or light troops did so. For the hoplites to just stand there being arrow targets in the open was beyond stupid.
If I recall correctly Beskar is a very light metal from Mandalor so the spear is just as light as a normal spear but it has the buff of being resistant to lightsabers and blaster bolts in the Star Wars universe
Boar spears and a small shield are my preferred setup in Blade and Sorcery VR.
Spears have a tendency to be chopped in half in movies quite easily. I have a sharpened gladius and it can't chop through a broom stick unless I brace the broom against something.
If I grab one end, and my friend grabs the other, our arms absorb too much of the shock, and the sword bounces off the broomstick leaving barely a scratch.
But if I lock the broomstick in place, the gladius will chop through.
Remember though, it's a broom stick. Not a hardened spear shaft.
Very good point here, shame that hollywood ignores basic physics.
Movies are indeed fake
forget about the spears, armor gets sliced in the movies like if it was made out of cardboard LOL
What? You think they would made the weapon they used most in battle to be easily broken apart?
Excellent point here. The natural movement and flex of the human body is such a shock-absorber, it makes everything all the harder to cut through.
Oh man, Where's the GoT 's Battle of the Bastards scene, Kung Fu Hustle, Matrix scene, 36th Chamber of Shaolin, and many more ???? Definitely a Part 2 Insider !!!
Matt Easton did review Battle of the Bastard if I recall, go to his channel. Though I can spare you some time : it's terrible all the way through.
@@alexgac1801 🤦, then I'm not watching, thanks for the tip
@@alexgac1801 Did he do the Mountain vs. Oberyn as well?
I follow Matt on his Schola Gladiatoria channel, there are a lot of good videos there.
actually, the macedonian double pointed "pikes" called Xiston was used as a lance for the light cavalry, while the Sarissa was in use with the Cataphrats (heavy) cavalry. That's why it was made with 2 pointed ends: the Xiston was lighter than the Sarissa (and thus it's only used by light cavalry, while the more resilient Sarissa was widespread among infantry) but still about the same lenght (or a little less but still way more than opponents cavalry lances) and it's common usage was to break the tip into the enemy while using hit and run tactics, like charging, hitting and then suddenly change direction to run away, leaving the broken tip of the spear (xiston) into the target and switching side. At this point the other half of the xiston could be used as a shorter weapon during a charge, before switching to a blade after the first impact, or could even be thrown. Usage of the double pointed sarissa for the infantry was more a convenience than a real need. It was super rare to break the resilient Sarissa as an infatrymen (while the heavy cavalry was used to break the sarissa thanks to the energy of the charge and then swapping to the other pointy end, in such a move not unlike to what the light cavalry did with the xiston) and even then, on foot in a phalanx formation, you would mostly choose to retreat and get cover in a backward rank while you would get a spare, new, intact sarissa instead than keep on fighting in the front rank with your broken one. Of course the second spearhead on the sarissa was still useful on foot and I dont doubt a lot of infantrymen have made a good use of it, but still, it wasn't a common pratice: even if not broken, the other point of the sarissa is still used by the infantry only in particular situations because the long shaft and the thight formation of the infantry phalanx would make swinging around the sarissa to make use of the spike at the bottom, a very difficult maneuver, even with an "half sarissa". still, it's very awesome video ! Kudos to Scholagladiatoria and the wonderful Matt !! :D
I've trained with the Guan Dao. In training, we actually did use the spinning around the neck and body. Reach advantage is tough with this weapon, as it's very heavy and heavy at the end, thus it doesn't move quickly like a spear and therefore the spinning is to build up its momentum and power.
Yeah, his remark on grip of that Guan Dao was little off (probably only one). I think it´s because these asian cultures used spear differently than europians. For them it was pole and blade, like 2 things in 1 so that grip looked fine. Also by look this weapon is not suited for thrusts (you can but its not most effective) and as he said it´s very heavy so where else would you like to hold it?
@@duckman4928 He misunderstands what the Guan Dao is. The comparison he made for the blade is to that of a Falchion. A Falchion blade is broad but very thin along its cross-section and weighs sometimes less than a longsword. The family of dao the Guan Dao belongs to have largely the same kind of very thin blade the Falchion does, but the Guan Dao itself is a special version with a very heavy blade shaped more like wedge in cross-section. It's the special fat brother of the family.
But you trained martial art, or let say weapon art. See like in the movies some techniques are used just for entertainment, to sell the art or the artist. They never been used in real fights. And you can easy see the difference. In the case above - if you spin around the neck, the guy with the sword just will kill you. As your weapon may look great, but it is doing nothing, and you are in the reach of his blade. Also spinning does not build up momentum and power. Simple physics - with every spin the weapon actually is losing power. And you can see that every time you drive a car.
have an ancient manual for the guan dao (korean source) and it has 0 spinning. There are big differences between historical asian martial arts and today martial arts.
@@stevestrangelove4970 The Koreans never adopted the Guandao, probably because they have common sense. They use the Woldo, which is a lighter variant of the Yanyuedao family. There is a lot of misunderstanding about the Guan Dao in the internet, and its identification with the Yanyuedao is one of them. A Yanyuedao is a standard Chinese glaive. A Guan Dao is a special very heavy version of the Yanyuedao inspired by Romance of The Three Kingdoms and used for military examinations in the Chinese imperial era. Spinning isn't the real problem. It's the grip that Matt is wrong about. A standard "combat" Guan Dao weighs between 18 and 28 kg, while the examination version weighed a minimum of 48 kg (the weight of the weapon according to the novel). You simply can't use a standard polearm grip for the proper Guan Dao. It's a weapon made for show and bragging rights inspired by a fictional novel. Even in the novel it's technically wielded by a literal god! Donnie Yen is playing said god in this movie clip, btw. In contrast, the Woldo (and standard Yanyuedao) maxes out at 10 kg.
Troy is just an all round great movie, and well deserves a good rating for how close to the realism it is
Ye nah it wasn’t realistic tho
@@thomasmanana2958 I believe you may of misread my comment to argue something that I didn't say, I didn't say it was realistic ... in regard to the video and what I said, I stated how "close" to the realism, as in the movie and fighting .... your taking it too literal and are just spouting a baseless argument for the sake of it
Fair, but the rewriting of the mythology frustrates me. Achilles and Patrocles were certainly not cousins, and the gods play such a vital role in the story that removing them completely removes it from its original context.
@@auroraourania7161 that is true, tho most if not all movies do that
@@auroraourania7161 let tell you a secret, the movie is much more realistic than the original poem. Troy war probably existed and the poem is just bullshit.
"What does your father do for living?"
"He is a SPEAR MASTER"!
I was expecting 300 to be on here too. None the less, excellent vid!
i am addicted to these videos! the people you get for them just ooze passion for their craft! you can really tell this guy is OVER how staves are portrayed in film ahahahaa!!! i love it! and i learned a ton too!
He's an OG youtube HEMA dawg, you can get more from his channel.
Also recommend Lloyd from Lindybeige, he has more varied stuff than only historic combat, and a lot of energy.
Alternatively, stoic Jason, the horse guy from Modern History, or an even more energetic and passionate Shad the aussie writer, castle enthusiast, from Shadiversity.
@@Halo_Legend Agreed. I would also recommend Metatron, who's specialised in Roman and Japanese history (but he talks about more than just that)
@@Halo_Legend
Iwould recommend everyone BUT Lindybeuge. One of the worst history channels on CZcams.
And the list is not complete without Skallagrim, who focusses more on reproductions and design.
Matt Easton is a legend.
Lord of Context and Penetration.
Oh man would've really liked to have seen you talk about the film Hero. Don't know how accurate any of the fighting technique in it is, but wow is it a gorgeously choreographed bunch of sequences.
The Moonfleet overhead swinging looked kind of like the Gallowglass axe technique.
I love the breakdown of the glave fight because it brings to light a big issue the late Bruce Lee had with fight scenes from Chinese cinema in that he felt the fights while beautiful were totally unrealistic. In his movies he tried to add as many realistic thoughts as he could. In Fists of Fury he uses a nunchuck against a group of people hitting them anywhere and everywhere. In Enter the Dragon he uses many different types of weapons and continues to switch between them throughout the fight depending on the number of enemies. And in every fight he is using the weapon to its fullest.
Guandaos were never widespread as battlefield weapons to begin with. The attribution of the guandao to Guan Yu has been theorized to be a way to show Guan Yu’s martial prowess, as most versions were far, far too heavy to be used as actual battlefield weapons due to their construction.
They appear to have seen some small historical usage during the Qing period, but have primarily been used for examinations and martial arts forms since then, which is why the clip shown is like that - it draws on the martial arts tradition of being an examination weapon, which would have been extremely heavy (20 lbs!)
@@taichi2245 The reason why the popular image of Guan Yu uses the Guandaos is that the author of ROTK (a novel based on history) was born in a time when the sword was used. The historical Guan Yu, of course, did not use the Guandaos, because the Guandaos appeared in history hundreds of years later than the Three Kingdoms period
Also the fact that Guan Yu is the second strongest character in the whole ROTK and stood over 2 meters tall so the weapon would be very appropriate for him, and he used the glaive as both a Calvary and infantry weapon.
@@yammoto148 3rd lu bu and zhao yun/zilong are stronger
@@zhuyuchen8324 Not even close, Guan Yu literal Saint if War defeated almost every Wei general possible and managed to escape from the middle of Wei vs a guy who ran for his life trying to save his Lords baby, Zhao Yun wouldn't even be in the top 10.
I think spears often get maligned by movies and videogames. The spear is one of the oldest weapons in the book. Variations existed for centuries after swords and other melee weapons were relegated to ceremonial duties. The spear was easy to mass produce, ideal for use in formations (swinging swords in formation gets a bit dangerous for everyone involved) and perfectly viable in single combat or small groups. It'd be nice to see movies and games do this weapon justice.
A good powered-up spear in the game Dark Souls can be pretty deadly.
Oberyn's fight against the mountain showed how strong spears were as well
@@VicInNocal and there is a lot of stabbing
I wonder if him comparing the weapons with fictional characters matters.
That's why the romans had short swords :V
Have you reacted to the Game of Thrones Red Viper vs The Mountain yet? I would really like to see your opinion on that fight.
That's what I was hoping to see
Yep I was hoping to see him grade that fight.
I think he has, check his channel.
He has, on his channel.
I really enjoyed that review, though I kinda missed the infamous fighting scene between Oberyn and the Mountain (GoT) and maybe Price Nuada (Hellboy II). As for Achilles (Troy), I think they deliberately intended to "exaggerate" his strength and skills with some fancy techniques, due to the fact that he is a demi-god -- which worked quite well within the context of the movie, I think.
I see Matt Easton on a thumbnail and i click the video.
I wish he had included 300 in his review. The Spartans used both the spear and shield with great effectiveness against the Persians. They used their spears as they were meant to be used. No wasted motion. Just a wall of spears and shields. Nearly impossible for the enemy to counter. I thought that was a notable omission.
You're so right. That is an iconic spear movie. Surprised they did the five sconds in Suicide Squad rather than any part of that movie
That Troy fight scene is so well done. Intense dramatic and sad, One of my favorite movies
In the last section, Guan-Dao, the weapon the guy is using, IS in fact wielded like that, and this is largely because matt eastern deals in western weapons. Its actually by far one of, if not the heaviest weapon wielded in history. Guan Dao could way as heavy as 10 kilograms. They were very heavy, and often had steel run through their cores and in some instances were full metal weapons. They were used by officers, literally as an exercise regime. So you have to keep them closer to your body.
10 kg? No. That's a ceremonial weapon, and not something meant for battle. It's two times too heavy to be used for battle.
@hewdelfewijfe feel free to look them up. They were in fact used, a full metal polearm that was heavy enough to break horses legs with the combat style close to the center of mass.
Performing your kata with a guan dao that weighed different weights was a method of officer grading and promotion. And plenty of instances in early Chinese warfare of them being used in war. ♡♡♡
@@baobhan9094 I don't need to look it up to know it's complete fiction. Maybe you have sources, but those sources are clearly fictional. Or a very small number of people purposefully fought in an extremely subpar way, aka they were showboating and not fighting seriously. No realistic handheld weapon weighed more than about 10 lb or 5 kg, and they often weighed a lot less.
@hewdelfewijfe I guess you are wilfully ignorant then. Plenty of guan dao found at the sites of famous battles weighed between 5 and 20 pounds. (2-10kilos)
The mythical variants of the weapon that were fabricated. Like the weapon supposedly weilded by Guan Yu weighed in at 82 Jin. Which is closer to 49 kilos. So, that's obviously a myth. There are plenty of articles revealing the guan dao was wielded on plenty of battles at weights of up to 10kg. ♡
The heaviest known "testing guandao" used for officer training and testing is in the museum of shanheiguan and it weighs about 83 kilos. ♡
10kg seems hardly fictitious after that. ;3
@@baobhan9094 again, sources please for the 20 kg ones. That's outrageous.
I keep a 9ft spear as my melee home defense weapon, great length and reach. The weapon of farmers, common folk & peasants. A underrated home defense weapon 💯
Cold steel has some good ones
Only if you plan on wielding it OUTSIDE of your home.
Or is your home One Giant Open Space Without Furnishing/Appliances?
Making me think of Seinfeld episode where billiards is played in a tiny room 🤣
@@yeahnaaa292 You don't need a big open space to effectively use a spear and take advantage of its superior reach.
Seems a bit too long for most homes.
@@zoltankorossy2957 bottom line: Pole-Arms -- one of the worst possible choices for indoor home defense.
I love how when Matt explains something, he would point out the reason why he thinks so, like historical treatise, vase and "we tested it"
Id say his house parties are nuts gambison not provided please bring your own buckler and shortsword. Sandwiches provided. Bring your own wine.
I liked the video. I just think you guys should've included the movie "300". Epic spear usage in that movie. :)
This was wildly entertaining!
would love to see a part 2 on this with Matt talking about the Red Viper vs The Mountain from Game of thrones and Sky vs Nameless from Hero
I was hoping that Hero fight would be in this the whole time i was watching it, got kinda sad it wasn't. I think he already talked about that GoT fight on his channel though.
can't believe they didn't include this iconic fight
Yeah, what's with that! The Hero battle is like the most iconic spear fight in modern cinema. It really showcases the whole scary flexible whip-like attacks that many (like me) hadn't ever considered in spear combat before seeing it.
And 300 ??
I was hoping for the spear fight with the German in Jet Li's Fearless.
"Hi Im Matt Easton of Schola Gladiatoria" always know Im in for a good video with those words
I remember that Achilles Hector fight. One of the best fight scenes i can remember on tv.
Cannot believe they didn't talk about 300. I know this movie is infamous for its historic inaccuarcies, but I think he would've approved of the spear action there. Aside of course of the fact that none of the Spartans in the movie wore armor
fr
I'd say you can't really call something that was never intended to be accurate inaccurate. Historically we're missing a massive slave army, so the very concept of the entire story is inaccurate.
That said, from what I remember there are definitely battles where they lock shields and it's the man behind them doing the killing. (Which would be accurate, put your Paladins and Barbarians in the front, let your Rogues and Fighters take shots with advantage.)
@@neoprofinThe first half of your reply makes sense, but the second’s a bit strange. Why are you analyzing ancient battle tactics with D&D terms?
Historic inaccuracies‽ Are you telling me the monsters and glistening abs aren't real‽
Matt Easton is a gent who truly knows his stuff. Love seeing him being featured here.
I'm glad to see Matt in this series, he has a lot of knowleldge, but also an abundance of practical experience, which is extremely valuable!
Practical experience lol
@@Helios601 you do know that HEMA practicioners actually spar and partake in combat contests very similar to what MMA fighters do right?
Maybe not practical experience in terms of fighting in a medieval war with swords or spears, because I mean come on.....but if he's a HEMA instructor he's definitely competed in Sparring matches or contests
My favorite story about spear fighting was years ago at a Crown tournament in the Society for Creative Anachronism. A fighter in the tourney had injured his shoulder so he could not use a sword, instead he used spear and won.
The comment about spear being thrust weapons is spot on. Too many times in the movies we see spears being used as slashing weapons. Considering the size of spears a slashing move would be so slow and the perfect way to make yourself vulnerable to an enemy attack.
Don't think they can't cut. A leaf blade on a narrowly missed thrust can still cut a neck or loin open on the withdrawal. But yes, big slashes are not likely and very slow and opening. This guy is a little too against cutting with the spear I think, as it was a method in Viking spear usage. I is just a knife on a stick, and you can certainly cut with a knife.
It's great to see so much love for the movie Troy, it's incredibly under-rated by critics. I think it's a very realistic interpretation of the battle, not delving to much in to the mythology, but respecting it enough to include it in a plausible setting. Extremely emotive story, backed by a compelling soundtrack, and undoubtedly the most realistic on-screen combat in any movie. The fighting is very methodical and fatigue inducing which you don't often see nowadays, everyone swings tirelessly for like 5 minutes without landing a single strike until the very end.
I mean the whole war took 7 years, and they were supposedly besieging that city for 7 years.
In the movie they did it in like 2 days.
@@Cryogenius333 The pacing of a film is usually fast as you don't have time to drag it out like a TV series, the war went on for 10 years in the illiad, in the movie I believe they showed all the important events making it feel like it was all in the space of a few days, when in actuality it was a decade
@@Cryogenius333 Troy is a great movie, but a poor documentary.
@@playr7599 lol no they didnt show all the important events, not even half... Have you even read homerus?
@@henkhenkste6076 You sound like one of those bores that dunk on war movies for being inaccurate. I'm a history buff but a movie is a movie. You have to accept liberties will be taken and try to understand what kind of film they were trying to create. For what the movie Troy is, it's a great movie. History wise, like most movies, it gets some things right and other things wrong.
8:01 not a melee combatant in the Star Wars mythos. So it's 100% plausible he wildly inefficiently uses a weapon.
I agree I think it is great to show that din jaren really has no experience with melee weapons, (quickly looking back with not perfect memory) it is more weird that he didn't use his blaster because in most of his fights he did use his blaster close range.
@@megamert2848 Probably because he doesn't know if it will be effective against the darksaber. He should have still tried because even if Moff Gideon had been as good as a Jedi (he is not) and bounced the shot, he has his armor. I also think that the weight of the spear argument is a bit covered by lore? I think the metal is lighter and has more special properties (his armor is made of the same, that's why he can still move properly). I think the most outrageous thing will remain the visor of the helmet. It's impossible to see much with it hehehe
@@Folfire I'm not 100% sure about the helmet but I believe some of the helmets in star wars basically have cameras and show that on the inside similar to like vr. That would also explain like zoom functionalities + other mandolorian helmets have the collapsable aim/rocket guidance stuff which would only really do something if they had some form of hud.
@@megamert2848 but in some scence you can see there is nothing in the helmet
On some is that what you describe outside on something like an antenna but on others who knows where it is because of the schots you get where you can see the inside of the helmet you can see that there is nothing in there
Also the helmets are sometimes to small for the actors and you can say helmets in Star Wars doesn't make sense in any way
@@Folfire Helmets in Star Wars have cameras and sensors so are giving an enhanced view. You can see this in a few Mandolorian episodes where he uses the sensors in his helmet to track people. The spear is of course made with some magical sci fi metal which is light and super strong. Gideon was probably not able to use the dark saber efficiently if its mechanics are similar to a light saber. The light saber in SW is a blade of pure energy with no mass that was as much of a danger to the wielder as to the target, per the lore only a force user could wield one effectively as they're using the force to track the movement of the blade so they don't hit themselves with it
Red Cliff 1 and 2 had some amazing spear fighting
Hector vs Aquilles is my favorite 1v1 (with weapons) fight in movies I have seen.
Just a point, Donnie Yen was portraying the character of Guan Yu who is traditionally depicted with a special glaive called the Guan Dao. It is traditionally considered to have weighed around the 30kg mark, which is a monstrously heavy weapon to be waving around. Guan Yu is generally depicted as an incredibly large and powerful warrior perfectly capable of wielding this massive weapon, but much of this comes from the Romance of the 3 kingdoms, which tends to be quite fanciful.
Swordsmen trained in Chinese styles were/are trained to close with polearm users.
Similar in power like go go yuri's weapon in kill bill,but also uses the bulk tip of its weight for momentum.
30 kg? He'd literally have to be a giant to wield anything that heavy in any useful way. And I don't mean a giant human, I mean a Giant giant..............lol.
Guan Yu was given so much backstory in Romance of the 3 Kingdoms, there isn't much documentation of his life from when he was alive, except for the military battles he participated in and his opinion of the more important political figures of the day. The guandao as a weapon didn't have widespread usage until the same century Romance of 3 Kingdoms was published either, and it may not have existed at all during Guan Yu's lifetime. All we do know is he was a loyal and capable general with a thick beard. Despite all this, I still love Romance of 3 Kingdoms, it's an icon of Chinese culture. Lionising people into becoming saints and heroes capable of inhuman feats is something we all do (Joan of Arc, John Henry, Jesus, etc)
30kg is like swinging around a little person
Matt was really interesting, please bring him back for more.
Mate check out his CZcams channel - scholagladiatoria.
There's a WHOLE lot more to see :)
He's got his own channel, too!
the wig throw reminded me of the rapier and cloak trick by (fiore? i dont remember) where you just chuck it at them
History: Wow, the spear is really, really strong.
Hollywood: Let me tell you the tale of the sword.
In the fantasy story, that huge GuanDao polearm protagonist used is like 18kg(40pound), so he didn't holding it like a standard spear is understandable.
But yeah GuanDao is just too heavy to be a practical weapon, they're mostly used for training and showing off.
Practical ones that weighed very little were used in history.
At least not today they are. Back even during the late Qing dynasty, similar weapons were widely used to great effect. These versions though were far lighter than modern guandao .
@@durandal441 Yeah but assuming he would handle that weapon "the practical way" is wrong. It would be awkward and unbalanced to use a weapon like a traditional spear or halberd and something that should be noted to what he's saying about that stance.
I think the most unrealistic thing about that fight isn't just the way the polearm is used, but the level of deflection the sword maintains. Given the momentum of the polearm, there are multiple moments where it should either break the guard of the opponent, or disarm them completely.
The swordsman should have been relying more on dodging than on parrys and blocks.
I've gone up against someone using a poleaxe like in the last scene, just swirling it around in a great motion, when doing live steel fighting. Managed to close, mainly due to having a shield. Wilfully let the poleaxe impact the shield, but the force of the impact massively bruised my arm where the top of the shield was pressed into my upper arm as the poleaxe hit.
I fought someone who was doing something similar, and can confirm that it was very intimidating.
Was there a time limit? I’d let him tire a bit first.
'just swirling it around in a great motion, when doing *live steel fighting* .'
Fighting with LIVE STEEL?
Is that even a thing? Where I come from, it would be called 'attempted murder'.....
@@Debbiebabe69 fighting with metal weapons is actually an international medieval sport. edges are dulled, but the weapons are real.
If it was a real one you wouldn't want to stick your arm out with only wood protecting it.
This guy is very knowledgeable, which I respect. But I must respectfully disagree on one point he made, and explain another point that should be obvious about movie fighting.
First... to get the movie fighting out of the way, movie fights are meant to look flashy, so the movements are often bigger vs being economical. So, of course all movie moves are not usually practical. Also, to give an impression that one can actually fight multiple people, the fight choreographer has to set up, "your turn, your turn, now your turn" scenarios, or the fight would definitely be over too quickly to be fun in a movie. So, yeah, they stack and some wait a turn.
Now, to the issue or using the spear and trident like a staff and like a blade.
Of course it is PRIMARILY a poking/thrusting weapon. However, having been taught multiple spear forms and one Trident form, using the weapon as a staff and slashing with the sharp edge of the point is definitely a thing.
First, being the majority of the spear IS a staff, this application is obvious and would be gross negligence to ignore it's uses. If you look at a spear, you will see that it's not just sharp at the point... most have sharp edges on the sides of the tip, as well. If it were purely for poking, you would not need this. An argument can be made for twisting and turning on the way in and out, which is part of it's usage.. but suggesting a tip that has sharp edges can't be used to slash is incorrect.
Many forms based on ancient Chinese spear, for instance, use what is called La-Na-Cha (Block-Take-Thrust). Blocking is obvious. "Take" is when you perform a slightly circular or torqueing movement to block or knock the other's weapon out of the way. Thrust is also self-explanatory.
It was fun watching his analysis. But, if his 3 of 10 rating for Black Panther was based on his observation of slashing and staff use movements, that analysis is a fail. Also, with multiple opponents, spinning the tip is a defensive and delaying movement.
One thing about stabbing the foot, is it is also used in martial arts, though they dont really stab. But a lot of techniques are coupled with stomping on the enemies feet, while also doing a blow or something similar to the body/head
I'm not surprised Matt rated Troy so high. I think the fight choreography on that movie is utterly amazing!
Matt Easton 🙌 this is gonna be good.
Never thought I'd see him on Insider!
I hope I did okay!
Another thing about Troy I was curious about is if you watch the scene closely, It almost appears as of they were following some type of ancient dueling rules. For example:
1. You can't pull your sword out until your spear is broken. Each of them attempted to break the spear and as soon as they broke swords were drawn. Hector didn't even use his sword while fighting against the spear. Only a shield.
2. Picking up items from the ground. Was that a dishonorable thing in a duel like this? Or were there any rules at all?
There was definitely an honor code, at least in that particular duel. There is the moment where Hector trips over a stone and Achilles allows him to regain his footing rather than having a rock credited for his victory.
Man! This is a cool video! In Kung Fu the spinning the spear around the body was a form of crowd control and the trident scene in Aquaman is actually based on the Chinese tiger fork. I've been training for 50 years complete with 18 traditional weapons. I love this video brother. Peace.
Man, I would have liked him to review the fight in Game of thrones between Red viper and The mountain