When Will the Welsh Age of Socialist Faith End?
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- How do we group Welsh History and Welsh Historical ages in a way that is not just a copy and paste template from England? We lost our kings and princes, the Welsh Language was banned in roles of prestige, and our landscape encourages division, so what common thread do we use for our Welsh people? Wales has always viewed or reacted to faith differently than England, and as a result, socialism came into Wales and has held on in a much more tenacious manner than across the border since 1922 In this video we ask the question, when will this age in Welsh History of socialist beliefs being the dominant, come to an end?
00:00 Beginning
02:03 This Question
05:05 Welsh Ages
09:43 Iolo
11:05 Tea
17:35 In the meantime
20:58 Then 1922
23:18 When is it over?
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Nice viceo, thank you for making it.
You are welcome.
Very interesting video, thanks.
Interesting. The economic structure determines, the psychology and this, in turn, the culture. The Penn-ar-Bed of Europe, the, so called, Celtic nations are both liberal and conservative. Why? Because they have been traditionally composed of small land owners and, at the same time, have been exposed to the world through the vastness of the ocean. So we are both extremely conservative (in a good sense) and fairly open minded and trade minded (liberal). However, the south of Wales was industrialised relatively early on. So the small land owners deserted the land to become factory employees and miners. That new status (as urban slaves) changed the psychology very drastically and, thus the values and the culture. But now blue collar workers are a minority and, therefore, a new transition is on the making. Perhaps we should go back to the land from whence we deserted.
A change is afoot in Walea away from the last century's leftwing ideas, but what it is and how it will shape, that is too early to say.
Dadansoddiad da
Love the way you roll your Rrrs, takes me right back home. How did you come to be a Texan?
I was born a Texan, I became Welsh.
@@BenLlywelynSo I guess that's an upgrade? Welcome!
no you didnt, youre american and youre putting on an accent...@@BenLlywelyn
@@BenLlywelyncroeso ffrind! ❤️🏴
@thevis5465 I am a gymro and I class him as a fellow cymry. He pronounces and speaks better cymraeg than many people I know.. now cau dy ben
I’ve watched a few of these this afternoon. Accidentally, but I’m always interested in languages and the movement of peoples and that’s why I’ve been watching. This one is fascinating and ticks many of my boxes. I need/want to say that I find the new world that I find myself in overwhelmingly awful.
Is there any specific part of this new world you want me to talk about? Keep in mind I am an optimist and will try to offer hope if I can!
You could stick a red rosette on a turd and the valleys would vote for it. It’s laziness and an inability to imagine a different way.
A well argued point - not indicative of laziness or, cliche...
Welsh people are loyal to family.
@@BenLlywelyn An assertion is not a fact. For every Welsh person who is loyal to his or, her family, you can find another who was perfectly happy to leave theirs. These kind of generalisations don't really help the discussion.
The bosimani from Africa ( the San) have only one era, socialists.
They are the wild humans while we are like domesticated dogs wich spread into many races. I think we could learn a lot from them because they are the most successful humans since they populated the planet.
The God must be crazy film is a good introduction on how they live.
Living like a prehistoric tribe sounds horrific.
@@BenLlywelyn They have been described as "the first affluent society", because they only work 5 hours a day to meet their needs.
Very interesting, but not sure I agree with you on your dissection of the past status and role of socialism in Wales; it has a very different flavour to me. There is little evidence anyway that socialism is now extant and would say the demi-god of capitalism and its underling consumerism have arrived. Have a walk around Tredegar, the birthplace of Bevan and see.
Does not the fact you call capitalism a demi-god prove socialism is a religion?
@@BenLlywelyn What one person says doesn't prove anything. But if socialism is a religion, then surely capitalism is a religion as well. I don't see how you can have one without the other.
Nye Bevan's involvement in the creation of the NHS, in the immediate aftermath of WW2, when Britain was stony broke, is one of the (possibly THE) greatest achievement of any Welshman in history. Thats just a fact. Religion is neither here nor there.
Its posibly more like an ethos. Causation did rest on oppression and there is plenty of evidence for this. @@BenLlywelyn
Of course there has been a mandated zeal towards Socialism at its beginnings, in essence it is still a political movement and not a religious one. We are currently witnessing in Britain how the system of nationalising aspects of public services is actually working out for the best across the board. Welsh Water is nationalised/socialised and we have clean beaches and healthy marine zones, while in England water is handled by private owners who care for little else other than profits and many of their beaches are no go zones because of pollution. Aspects of the railways were nationalised during the pandemic in order to pander and limit damage to private investors etc (a tax payer bail out) and now we find a rail system that’s functioning better and paying back more profits into the exchequer. Go figure!
Speaking as somebody who remembers the misery and managed decline and decay that was British Rail in the 1980s, no, the nationalised railway was not any better.
@@AMOGLES99 well it is now.
Political and religious are not opposites. Islam is a political system too. Socialism is both also in a different way. Christianity is in fact the odd 1 out because it is just a religion.
@@BenLlywelyn while I’d agree that the early communists made the error of positing Socialism as a religion with its icons and hero worship etc, i in no way believe Socialism as a political construct has anything to do with religion proper. I agree that it promotes egalitarianism as a belief system, so there are parallels, but the same can be said of veganism or whatever. As for Christianity; it would still be a political system were it not for the Enlightenment and the separation of Church and State that came in its wake.
The most important question that hasn’t been addressed properly is WHY Wales leaned into Socialism so much. Could it be that we were sick and tired of being chattels of the British state with its rigid hierarchy and a political system. promoting egalitarianism might have been appealing to a people who have been oppressed for two thousand years; an egalitarianism Christianity has always promoted but has blatantly and deliberately failed to deliver. Our Capitalist masters sought to murder our language and erase our aeons old identity. As for the historic anti semitism of the Left I agree that such caricatures that were common currency at the time are truly vile. But let’s not forget either that the father of socialism was Karl Marx who was born to bourgeoise Jewish parents. But anyway, New Labour has long burst the bubble of socialism in Britain. But hey, the Welsh language engenders a form of egalitarianism in and of itself; it’s a great leveller and transcends notions of class by and large. That’s the only political system I believe in now in my own country; Bydded I’r Heniaith Barhau✊🏴
@@BenLlywelyn I disagree, Christianity is political too. The exact political brand depends on the religious denomination. Calvinism is credited with having pioneered Capitalism and market freedom for example, and also the scientific mindsetn. Catholicism has given us "ora et labora". American style evangelical Protestantism is directly repsonible for many aspects of American culture and attitudes.
9:20 Why is supporting Palestine anti-Jewish? I see no reason it should be, unless you buy into the idea of it as a zero-sum game where if one side gains anything the other side must lose, which I thought was the economic liberals criticism against the socialists thinking the rich must lose to make the poor better off?
Syria, Chad, Yemen, Afghanistan, Rohinga, Libya, Armenia.... No demonstrations. And remember, these demonstrations began before Israel had fought back. And these chants, the songs - I won't repeat them- are horrific.
Hi Ben,
You should at least be neutral in the Palestine Israel conflict. Youve been hanging around too many US Americans + listening to too much US American media.
@@BenLlywelynEvery word of that is false. A brazen lie.
While I totally agree that Israel is an apartheid state and has always been, this protests are the unintentional side effect of radicalising the young ones, since the left has always preyed up on the minorities, muslims in the "West" shifted sides, just as black Americans and South Americans have giving growing support for Trump.
The snake eating itself!
Who the FUCK are you to tell Ben or someone else what to think and express about any topic? @@bernardmolloy6241
29:05 competition
With what?
I think you’re of to a good start with that
wales historically would vote in line with other working class British communities.
Wales is a nation.
True socialism is death there's no more Socialism. Wokism, LGBT ideology, Labour, Social -Democracy all these are just a different format of same franchise
What is true socialism? Also there are countries like N Korea..
Social democracy in a free country, now and then, is perfectly fine.
@@BenLlywelyn yes you're right in a free country. Truly free country
@@BenLlywelynsure however any socialist movement always moves to remove the free part all the way to voting and is being done under the guise of saving democracy or for the better of the people.
Most accurate the syndical movement was an achievement of working class. Day's off, Holiday, Maternity leave, sickness benefits, pension, unemployment benefits, child support, NHS itself is the result of working class struggle for the rights of working class. This is true socialism.
Isn't under any party, bureaucracy, communist populist regime, none of those achieved anything. Is not about woke or nonsense ideas.
Woman rights, right to vote all was the result of true struggle for emmancipation.
No bs labour party or social democrats would restore anything of value.
They advocate to privatise NHS, to criminalise the disabled people on benefits. In 21 century we're the few Western countries that we speak about child poverty? Think about
The slave class became the sacred? What does it have to do w gnosticism... good video btw n so well edited... its always a delight to listen 2u... ❤ n u inspired me to delve into welsh culture.. Gotta love ur book.. why dont u revive that instead? 😍
Gnosticism, like socialism, uses language to reconstruct reality and claim hidden knowledge about things which do not exist.
And any other religion :))@@BenLlywelyn
@@mayanlogos92 No.
@@mayanlogos92that is very common anti-socialist myth that socialism and gnosticism have anything in common. One of crazy adherents of it, youtuber TIK history even claims that n-z- claim of being socialist was true and that both n-z-sm and communism come from gnosticism. Another youtuber "veritas et caritas" brilliantly debunked that nonsense
@@BenLlywelynI am tempted to unsubscibe after you say bs like that
Gwyn Alf Williams the Communist historian from Merthyr Tydfil was a Unitarian and thought they were important intellectually in Wales.
"Lacks forgiveness". Brilliant!
Yes Gwyn was and yes, Unitarians were, and far underestimated in their influence upon what would eventually become Welsh Labour.
Ill tell you what my father in law who past. You could put a labour rosette on a pole and everyone down here vote for it..😂
I'm sorry you lost your father in law. As for Labour voters, we must remember Thatcher was only 40 years ago, so we may have to wait a while for the courage of change.
I'm for Voluntaryism. Voluntary socialism is more humane. I care about people a lot, but real people though, not corporations, which is why I'm aslo for laissez faire capitalism.
Good to care about others. Where has this voluntary idea been tried?
😁
So, you're a market socialist?
You really don't seem to have a clue what socialists 'believe', with the exception that nationalism is awful, but you seem not to know what nationalismnis either, given it's the bloodiest ideology in human history.
The church and state should be separate for similar reasons why the market and the state should be set apart - you have free choice to not mess with me in the manner you wish to.
@BenLlywelyn I have no clear idea what that's meant to suggest, or why you mentioned separation of church and state. Are you saying you don't care that you're sharing misinformation? If so, it seems a sadly immature position to take.
We don't agree, and in a free country that is fine.
@BenLlywelyn "alternative facts" aren't a real thing. You can't say "socialists believe in flying elephants" and expect to be taken seriously. If your channel is a conscious disinformation project, or if you need to lie in order to support weak arguments, that's a different thing entirely. But I'm not going to accept that ignorance or lies are equivalent to actual scholarship.
I believe we will move towards nationalism.
Patriotism, or nationalism?
@@BenLlywelyn no, I believe it will be a move towards nationalism. Not the military nationalism of the twentieth century, but a nationalism where political parties will need to respect the country's character, culture and traditions, and will need to prioritise their own citizens. Within a country there can be socialism (higher taxes for better public services) but the ideas of international socialism are incompatible with a government that is democratically elected by the citizens. Look what happened when the Home Office tried to house asylum seekers in that hotel in Llanelli. People will not stand for it. No one voted for this. The media will call this far right but there is nothing right wing about it. People just don't want to see their communities and nation destroyed.
@@BenLlywelyn nationalism and patriotism are synonyms, there used to be no distinction until recent years when nationalism became bad because the left said it was bad an associated it with ultranationalism or fascism.
Cwestiwn da iawn Ben....nid yw sosialaith yr un peth a fu adeg y diwydiannau trwm. Nid oes diddordeb bellach gan y blaid llafur yn y bobl ar waelod y raddfa sosioecenomaidd.
Diolch yn fawr. A siŵr i fod hefyd fod credau Llafur Gymreig wedi newid yn llwyr ers cyfnod Hardie.
Fideo hynod dreiddgar ac ysgogol eto Ben. Dwi'n licio dy syniad o rannu hanes Cymru fel pennodau 'ffydd'. 'Wales is an act of faith' yn wir, fel y dywedwyd rhywbryd. Fidoe amserol iawn hefyd o feddwl bod Javier Milei wedi bod mor ddeifiol yn ei sylwadau am ddylanwad negyddol sosialaeth ar gymdeithas heddiw a ddoe.Yn bersonol, dwi'n credu y daw diwedd ar y Ffydd Sosialaidd yng Nghymru yn gynt nag wyt ti'n tybio. Oherwydd yn y lle cyntaf bod newid mawr iawn am am ddigwydd fel rhan o'r 'Great Awkening'presennol yn y byd. A hefyd oherwydd, os yw annibyniaeth am weithio o gwbwl, bydd rhaid criw o bobol mwy pragmataid a syber wrth y llyw yma, yn lle'r sosialaidd iwtopaidd presennol. Cytuno y daw'r newid hwn 'Pan fydd y Cymry'n dechrau fotio' go iawn. Diolch yn fawr am dy gynnwys eto.
Diolch yn fawr, Aled. Gobeithio fod ti'n llygadu lle o ran pethau'n symud ymlaen yn gynta na 40 mlynedd. Ond wn i ddim - mae pobl Cymru yn tueddu fod yn ddifater iawn, sy'n ffrwyth sosialaeth ac yn peri mwy ohoni fel ei gilydd. Ond, yn gweld dy sylwad am y bobl 'iwtopaidd', yeah, dyna broblem ddofn gymdeithasol sy'n dofi ac yn ysbaddu'r pen o reswm - ond mae gobaith y bydd aeddfedi Senedd yn dechrau cyn bo hir. B.
I read someone's blog that said that Marx had the same idea as millenarian Christianity. i.e. the revolution = the second coming, the age of socialism = the millennial rule of the returned Jesus Christ, communism/the classless society = heaven
That is fascinating.
It is totally false. Pure sophistry.
Jesus didn't cause a revolution, which brings chaos and violence as socialists and comunists are known for. Jesus practiced boycott, letting the order to change itself, hence Roma's reluctance to murder Him. Socialists on the other hand...well we don't need imagination anymore to know what to expect by a leftie...probably would stone Him to death just like islam says so!
Very damaged people!
Mae amser yn dod ❤
It is odd that Welsh nationalism is at the same time left wing. You might think nationalism is essentially a right-wing, or at least in its watered down and civic form, a non-socialist concept. The same can be said for example of Basque, Catalan and Scottish nationalism, who will all be facing similar challenges to Wales in years and decades to come..
Catalan and Basque Nationalism are interesting from a Welsh perspective. Catalans have the economically Liberal tradition or earlier Wales and Basques have the cultural conservative Plaid Cymru almost went into pre-1945.
Usually extreme nationalist movements are Socialist in nature or extreme left wing. It is the left wing that tries to wash its hands of historical attrocities that assigned it to the right. Heck, lateley I have heard even Communism being assigned as right wing.
I don't find it odd at all. Nationalism as a movement in relatively small countries that have been dominated by larger, more powerful ones is a struggle for self- identification and for a form of local democracy. It is a world away from nationalism of the extreme right: the nazi and fascist variety that is authoritarian, violent and often underpinned by an ideology of racial superiority. (It is saddening indeed and profoundly ironic that one of the most extreme examples of racial apartheid is currently been played out in Israel and in the territories of its defeated and dispossessed neighbours.)
It's not surprising at all. Socialism is a liberatory movement which is naturally aligned with liberation struggles.
@@garethmartin6522 at least that is the lie they sell to whom they call "useful idiots".
What would an American know about it ?
Texan.
@@BenLlywelyn Texas, Wales ?
Texas is a country like Wales. Wales, UK. Texas, USA.
@@BenLlywelyn sure I can go along with that, liberation for both I say.
Very interesting video and a great summary of Welsh history! But it's sad hearing Wales having such socialist tendencies, although given the vote turnout I don't think that's really the case. Romania is a lot more like Germany, I mean the most influential events in Romanian history are: Mircea the Elder defeating the Turks, Vlad the Impaler defeating the Turks, Stephen the Great defeating everyone around him basically, Michael the Brave briefly unifying Wallachia Transylvania and Moldavia, the Little Union between Wallachia and Moldavia, and the Great Union between Transylvania, Bukovina and Bessarbia with the Kingdom of Romania. With a great emphasis on the last one that the citizens of Transylvania, Bukovina and Bessarbia opted for conditional unions originally and made requests to the Kingdom of Romania if they are to accept unification. The unifications were willing in some sense. The most notable elements for Romanians in Romanian history point out a few factors -> the desire to preserve their independence against greater odds (Austria, Hungary, Turkey, Russia) and the desire for unification while being separated by 3 different bigger states (Hungary, later Austria, Turkey, Russia). The history of Romania was a struggle for preserving their identity. And because unlike Dalmatian, Romanian is not extint, I can say we succeeded. I don't think Wales has such a strong national sentiment as Romania. But Romania is interesting (Romanian, so might be biased) in my opinion, because while Romania fought to preserve its independence, culture, language and way of life, Romania also defined itself as everything Austria, Hungary, Turkey and Russia were not, which is an autocratic nation. So I think Romania manages to strike a nice balance of being nationalistic but without being autocratic, due to our historical experience. Ever since the Little Union on average the most influential party was the National Liberal Party, national, and liberal, that's basically Romania in a nutshell.
I don't think Wales has this nationalistic and liberal combo which is why it was so susceptible to socialism. True, Romania was socialist from 1947 to 1989, but it was forced on us by USSR and even then it was a weird combination of communism with nationalism that didn't exist in other communist countries. Romania was the black sheep of communism. It refused to invade Czechoslovakia and almost got invaded because of this, was the first socialist nation to recognise Israel which USSR didn't like, traded with the west and even got the status of "most favoured nation" from USA which again the USSR didn't like. It was communism with Romanian characteristics. And when the iron curtain fell, Romania's dictator was fired. Both metaphorically and literally.
But overall, although 1947-1989 is seen as a dark age in Romania, with the Interwar being the golden years, made Eastern Europe in general and Romania included hate socialism. Why? first hand experience. I read stories from people who escaped from Romania to the west during the Cold War and were utterly shocked to hear that some westerners believed the east lives a better life than them "the society is more equal" and such. This was ludocris to Romanian refugees who experienced socialism first hand.
Wales didn't have that kind of experience, so it doesn't know what socialism when taken to its absolute conclusion is like. Hearing about it (from multiple sources, some pro) is one thing, but living it is another. I envision 2 future possiblities for Wales: (1) it gets worse before it gets better: gets to experience more and more socialism until it gets tired and rid of it. (2) a true option, somehow, a party that will represent that interests of the Welsh people is formed, and the voter turnout rate will increase, because such a big turnout rate means only 1 thing: the people have no real option. Which was common in socialism, in socialist Romania, if you spoke against socialism you were bad (so nothing now the modern woke practices) but also you didn't really like them. They got votes by policing with a virtue signaling, not by really winning the hearts of people, common socialist tactics. Maybe first 1 then 2, who knows.
Wales really has a change of going far-left. I think Romania's risk, although good currently, is going far-right than far-left, it's far more susceptible to far-right ideologies than far-left due to the conservative nature and high respect for the church. I'm not going to say that this automatically makes you far-right, it doesn't, that's something socialists say, there's a clear distinction there. I'm just saying that I find it impossible for Romania to go far-left, but not that impossible to go far-right when times go bad. From what you're saying, I get the feeling that some Welsh people are almost ashamed to be Welsh, which is the first sign of socialism, this international religion.
Wow.. reading from a Romanian that he finds interesting his history, or how you put it... wow.. also greetings from Bessarabia. & what do you mean you didnt learn much history but the points you mentioned, or that there seems to be more emphasis on those? I thought 4 example the history of Transylvania is qt discussed... also given the tensions between some Romanians & Hungarians living there n so... might be wrong on any of these points, ofc... if so i apologize
TRĂIASCĂ ROMÂNIA! 🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴❤️💛💙❤️💛💙🇲🇩🇲🇩🇲🇩
The Romanian friend I knew detested Communism. With your country's history - I see why.
Robert Owen is the founder of socialism. Though he didn't know it. He was the capitalist owner. But he didn't know it.
Never when the attitude of most Welsh is. My grandad will be spinning in his grave if I don't vote labor.
It will come, and whenever it does, it will be a tidal wave across Wales.
@@BenLlywelyni hope you are correct. The loyalty Welsh people have shown to labor. But nothing in return from labor .
wtf
lol
*Why do you look like a middle-life crisis edition of ben shapiro?*
Does this mean money is coming?
Never heard so much rubbish. Socialism and Protestantism didn't come from England either. Wales does politics its own way, and the Welsh Labour Party isn't like a Marxist party.... Your view seems more like an American's take on things.
It is a one way of seeing things, and we need more than one way of seeing things.
Wales was late to give up Catholicism and to take up Protestantism. When it did it went all out. Baptists, Quakers and 5th Monarchy Men to start with. Herefordshire was Wycliffist quite early but it didn't obviously transfer to Wales.
@@MabElystanGlodrydd and then, as you say they then went full on non conformist, whereas England has stuck to mainly middle of the road Anglicanism
Karl Marx who wrote the treaties for Socialism made his study in Northern England. His papers are in a library in Manchester. There is a statue of him outside the library. Karl Marx also co-wrote the communist Manifesto with Engels So please get your facts right before complaining. Socialism does come from England.
@@galinor7 I’m on holiday in Spain at the moment. If I wrote my postcard home does that make it Spanish or British?
Unfortunately too many Welsh people get their politics from "How Green was my Valley".
(Great film by the way).
Nationalism and Socialism all together......yeah great combo.
I agree that Socialism is a religion.....(man made delusion created to concentrate power).
But.....
1. The Tudors came from Wales.
2. Cymraeg has been obligatory on all road signs within Cymru for decades.
3. Your accent is,.........not Welsh.
4. Zionists are not your friends.....you're their stooge.
I am a Zionist, and?
My accent is not Welsh, and?
Great video. Socialism: dangerous loosers , with some with good intentions ,
Zero good intentions. Socialism is evil, purely.
Diolch.
Please just concentrate on the Welsh Language. You knowledge is useful , your opinions, far less so.
Welsh lessons will come now and then, but people don't watch them.
I'm surprised you don't want to just outrightly cancel him! Good on you!
Please just concentrate on keeping your opinions to yourself! Your compliance is helpful, your opinion...not at all. Peace and love 😘
I think his opinions are fascinating.
Opinions (especially when well thought out) are essential for arguing against the far less valuable (not well thought out) opinions that the culture shoves upon us via media, generic conversations, schools, politicians..
Hearing educated opinions help prevent the death of a nation, it helps to fight against bad ideologies/ policies/ views.
It doesn’t mean that every association, every point, every claim is correct; nor does an error or inaccurate claim make the conclusion/ thesis incorrect.. having good faith discussions is how we grow and how we weed out our own wrong ideas &/or strengthen