I think the most important thing here, which starr tile does, is do some tests with the tile you are using, the thinset you are using, on the wall you are tiling. If you are getting good coverage without back buttering, dont backbutter. if you arent getting good coverage, try back buttering.
I have put several showers together with putting no thinnset on the walls only on the tile and have never had one fall off and some bathrooms are 10 - 15 years old. I will start back buttering I guess just to be safe.
I wish I had seen this video previously. I'm in the process of tearing out a tub surround because of poor advice from the top video search result about back buttering or not for subway tile. Tiles were falling off the wall before I had even finished...
It would be problematic to use leveling Clips on this small of a tile with so much of it going to the ceiling staggering in half... which is a little bit of the reason that I used larger trowel for thinset to manipulate the differences in the deflection of tile. Only slight lippage here & there that my customer was ok with.
@@StarrTile Not even a perhaps. Its a gimme, that trowel you are using is, A putting on to a thin bed, and B going in the wrong direction for those tile lengths,but each to their own!
back buttering does have its place, but slapping extra mortar on then saying you have better coverage isnt a good demo. its impossible for it not look looke like better coverage because you already covered the whole back of the tile...
My take, is that back buttering small wall tile is more than 8 seconds when you ad time cleaning? It’s not worth the extra time to me. Small tiles with 30% cover rarely just fall off.
I just finished a kitchen floor we used a 24 inch x24 inch high gloss super black porcelain. It turned out pretty good. Except we went with a non sanded grout black. I think I wiped to soon as ground dried gray. Now I have a haze I can’t seem to get rid of. Any ideas would be appreciated thanks.And good video.
Sometimes that could happen because you use white thinset instead of Grey... or the washout effects, meaning you sponge it off too many times which got rid of some of the dye. I would have never suggested to use unsanded grout which was part of the problem. This happened to me on my bathroom floor and before I sold my house I literally painted each grout line with the proper color that I wanted
@@Greg-kc1dw ya thanks but this stuff isn’t coming off easy. Tried water and vinegar. Nothing. But I guess I gotta go with a product meant to remove it. The tile before grouting was super shiny now not so much. Thanks for the help.
@@growopterb8459 texspar plus is a citrus based grout haze remover it even works on epoxy grout haze and it's safe for the grout joints. i found this product when i did a epoxy grout years ago and could not remove haze this stuff works wonders and i recommend it any chance i get
How long does it normally take for thinset to dry up? I've done drywall and have gotten to a point where the compound starts to thicken up a bit. Just noticed that you had pre trawled the area. Forgive me for my ignorance. Just wondering. I'm guessing it's a little bit more forgiving when you back butter?
It really depends on how rich you mix the thinset...I tend to use more water when using these very porous ceramic, also doing large area here is because I don't need to take time for spacers. But it's hit/miss on time, a lot of variables. A bucket lasts a few hours if I mix again every once in awhile.
@@StarrTile lol well at least the Schluter Allset I have been using isn’t supposed to be remixed. But I’m not familiar with other brands. I came here because my 3x9 subway tiles I’m putting up in my shower, the Thinset isn’t sticking to them. So I’ve been back buttering. It sticks to the Kerdi board just fine but not the tile which is weird.
@@mchoy33 it is possible that having that much coverage could serve some other purpose, waterproofing would not be one of them, the main issue is making sure that the tile adhered well but also that the grout stays intact which means all the adjoining tile must be firmly in place
I did a small backsplash for the first time using subway tiles and I ended up back buttering because I wanted to make sure. The problem I had was lippage, not sure what I did wrong. I thought I was looking to be even when installing but afterwards I am seeing lippage.
Longer subway tile like in the video will definitely have some lippage, it's almost unavoidable because the tiles are all not perfect and you cannot use leveling clips so you have to pick your poison...no subway or live with imperfect
@@StarrTile is good help hard to find where ur at? Just curious. It is here in Florida, People work just long enough to get their beer and a cigarette money and then you don’t hear from them LOL
@@FromTheHood2TheWoods I have had a few good helpers through the years but they stay around for about six months and then spring off on their own.... but as a rule I work alone because it's easier and because I'm an ass to work for
i scratch coat the wall and trowel the tile.... i use a v trowel to do the scratch coat with thinset. idk about you but i have never been called back 23 yrs btw
Well they were clogging up my channel and weren't getting the views that would be typical. I don't think there was really an appreciation of a day in a life, people just want to see work
@@apex007 well yeah, but talking to the camera and showing accidents or other weird things on the thumbnail of the video, hardly anybody watched.... it was a lot of trouble to go through filming, editing, and uploading everyday and getting 500 hits.
Your video fails to discuss thinset types and consistency of mix. You cannot let thinset be exposed to air that long, it will skin over and be no good.
That's awesome work. Exceptional tile layout and no lippage
Bob, Great video and examples
Excellent advice, always back butter your tile no matter what, just cya !
I think the most important thing here, which starr tile does, is do some tests with the tile you are using, the thinset you are using, on the wall you are tiling. If you are getting good coverage without back buttering, dont backbutter. if you arent getting good coverage, try back buttering.
You are the man!
I have put several showers together with putting no thinnset on the walls only on the tile and have never had one fall off and some bathrooms are 10 - 15 years old. I will start back buttering I guess just to be safe.
I wish I had seen this video previously. I'm in the process of tearing out a tub surround because of poor advice from the top video search result about back buttering or not for subway tile. Tiles were falling off the wall before I had even finished...
Back butter everything period.
Even if you have to trowel the back butter.
Costs more in adhesive/thinset…….so be it.
👍👌💪
Good video. It is more time consuming, but well worth the peace of mind.
As they say better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it
Kick ass. More stabila and megalite
Yo bob u recommend using level clips for subway? If so use smaller notch trowel? Got a hella uneven wall. Thanks!
It would be problematic to use leveling Clips on this small of a tile with so much of it going to the ceiling staggering in half... which is a little bit of the reason that I used larger trowel for thinset to manipulate the differences in the deflection of tile. Only slight lippage here & there that my customer was ok with.
Smart and pro. Tks
👍👍😊😊
If you used a square trowel with a larger notch, and troweled the right direction, in this case up and down you'd get your coverage 80-90% easily.
Perhaps...but my channel is seen by homeowners so trying to show easy to understand information is key, so yeah backbutter and they can't go wrong.
@@StarrTile Not even a perhaps. Its a gimme, that trowel you are using is, A putting on to a thin bed, and B going in the wrong direction for those tile lengths,but each to their own!
back buttering does have its place, but slapping extra mortar on then saying you have better coverage isnt a good demo. its impossible for it not look looke like better coverage because you already covered the whole back of the tile...
I’m using cement board for a shower pan after red guard what thin set you suggested to lay tiles?
Your great keep safe
My take, is that back buttering small wall tile is more than 8 seconds when you ad time cleaning? It’s not worth the extra time to me. Small tiles with 30% cover rarely just fall off.
I just finished a kitchen floor we used a 24 inch x24 inch high gloss super black porcelain. It turned out pretty good. Except we went with a non sanded grout black. I think I wiped to soon as ground dried gray. Now I have a haze I can’t seem to get rid of. Any ideas would be appreciated thanks.And good video.
Sometimes that could happen because you use white thinset instead of Grey... or the washout effects, meaning you sponge it off too many times which got rid of some of the dye. I would have never suggested to use unsanded grout which was part of the problem.
This happened to me on my bathroom floor and before I sold my house I literally painted each grout line with the proper color that I wanted
they sell grout haze removers at most box stores. haze generally can be wiped with a dry towel
@@Greg-kc1dw grout release works excellent for haze too
@@Greg-kc1dw ya thanks but this stuff isn’t coming off easy. Tried water and vinegar. Nothing. But I guess I gotta go with a product meant to remove it. The tile before grouting was super shiny now not so much. Thanks for the help.
@@growopterb8459 texspar plus is a citrus based grout haze remover it even works on epoxy grout haze and it's safe for the grout joints. i found this product when i did a epoxy grout years ago and could not remove haze this stuff works wonders and i recommend it any chance i get
How long does it normally take for thinset to dry up? I've done drywall and have gotten to a point where the compound starts to thicken up a bit. Just noticed that you had pre trawled the area. Forgive me for my ignorance. Just wondering. I'm guessing it's a little bit more forgiving when you back butter?
It really depends on how rich you mix the thinset...I tend to use more water when using these very porous ceramic, also doing large area here is because I don't need to take time for spacers. But it's hit/miss on time, a lot of variables. A bucket lasts a few hours if I mix again every once in awhile.
@@StarrTile gottcha. And thanks for the reply Starsky 😉
You’re not supposed to add water and remix though after you’ve done the original mix per the bag instructions?
@dji1tommy29 problem is following instructions...and I don't throw out meds on expiration date either 🤣
@@StarrTile lol well at least the Schluter Allset I have been using isn’t supposed to be remixed. But I’m not familiar with other brands.
I came here because my 3x9 subway tiles I’m putting up in my shower, the Thinset isn’t sticking to them. So I’ve been back buttering. It sticks to the Kerdi board just fine but not the tile which is weird.
Aye carrumba
Is the 95% coverage in the wet shower area more about adhesion or waterproofing?
Adhesion
@@StarrTile thank you! There’s so much info on the internet but never indicates why and then it says things like water prevention.
@@mchoy33 it is possible that having that much coverage could serve some other purpose, waterproofing would not be one of them, the main issue is making sure that the tile adhered well but also that the grout stays intact which means all the adjoining tile must be firmly in place
I did a small backsplash for the first time using subway tiles and I ended up back buttering because I wanted to make sure. The problem I had was lippage, not sure what I did wrong. I thought I was looking to be even when installing but afterwards I am seeing lippage.
Longer subway tile like in the video will definitely have some lippage, it's almost unavoidable because the tiles are all not perfect and you cannot use leveling clips so you have to pick your poison...no subway or live with imperfect
I back butter for all wet areas but for a backsplash i would not back butter.
Same here
You stay busy. Good customer base
Too busy at times....mixed blessing 👌
@@StarrTile is good help hard to find where ur at? Just curious. It is here in Florida, People work just long enough to get their beer and a cigarette money and then you don’t hear from them LOL
@@FromTheHood2TheWoods I have had a few good helpers through the years but they stay around for about six months and then spring off on their own.... but as a rule I work alone because it's easier and because I'm an ass to work for
@@StarrTile hahaha thanks for your honesty brother cheers!
i scratch coat the wall and trowel the tile.... i use a v trowel to do the scratch coat with thinset. idk about you but i have never been called back 23 yrs btw
Yes attention-to-detail does matter
Ok so I need your personal training. Free labor to be your side kick to teach me everything that you know lol.
how bout that little sliver of a tile under that niche'
Why'd you delete all your vlogs?
Well they were clogging up my channel and weren't getting the views that would be typical.
I don't think there was really an appreciation of a day in a life, people just want to see work
@@StarrTile lol. A day in your life was all work
@@apex007 well yeah, but talking to the camera and showing accidents or other weird things on the thumbnail of the video, hardly anybody watched.... it was a lot of trouble to go through filming, editing, and uploading everyday and getting 500 hits.
@@StarrTile you should have left it in a playlist. A day in the life of Bobby Doyle
@@apex007 Did some research and found you to be the real Apex. Shoot me an email with your paypal at AtlHomeRepairs@yahoo.com
I don’t understand how that thinset isn’t flashing over on the wall
When you get used to a product and know how to mix it
What is "flashing"?
@@stepbackandthink it is when your thinset has dried out enough that it's not usable
@@StarrTile Ok thanks
Your video fails to discuss thinset types and consistency of mix. You cannot let thinset be exposed to air that long, it will skin over and be no good.