Sharpening Showdown: TUMBLER SHARPENER v.s. WHETSTONES
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
- By popular demand, Naoto and Tiff are putting the Tumbler Sharpener to the test and comparing this popular online gadget to tradition Japanese whetstones.
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro
1:21 Disclaimer and Credentials
2:05 Unboxing
3:45 Tiff Sharpens with Tumbler
9:26 Naoto Sharpens with Tumbler
14:45 Whetstone Sharpening
17:16 Naoto's 45 second sharpening
19:36 Paper test
21:09 Tomato test
24:31 Carrot test
27:04 Conclusions
33:49 Cost V Performance
That 45 second sharpening was insane!
As a complete knife dork and knife maker, I feel like the Tumbler style sharpeners have their place. They're not going to give you the best edge but they're going to give you a better edge than a pull-thru and, for people who don't want to learn freehand or spend the money on a guided rod system, at least they will have a pretty fool-proof way to keep their knives functional. I'd rather people use this than have a kitchen full of knives so dull they're almost useless.
Absolutely, well said!
This is a great take and it's exactly why I bought a Horl 2. I've got a bunch of little kitchen things I obsess over... Coffee, smokers, sous vide, the list goes on!... I don't need another thing to add to the list! This lets me get decently sharp blades and it's always on hand. Importantly it doesn't need soaking or plugging in to power so I can just reach for it at any time.
Agreed! As a moron with too many hobbies as it is and cooking being the hobby I think I'll use a tumbler system on my Victorinox to keep it safely cutting before I have to get a new one.
@@christianscherm7360 Add a cheap or DIY strop to that and you'll get an even better edge too without needing any really technique or skill. Should be good to go.
Not as sure. The Hori system goes to 6000 grit and comes with a strop. Pretty sure you could get a very nice edge with it
I would have used the Tumbler alternating between left and right with fewer and fewer strokes (same stroke count per side though) which is what many do to deburr on a whetstone, too. However, the 45 second sharpening deserves a black belt, well done!
Appreciate the video comparison, honest and practical.
I just got my first whetstone yesterday (shapton kuromaku 1000) and of course I had a lot of difficulty with maintaining a proper angle. I managed to make the knife pretty damn sharp though which is all that matters since it's a pretty cheap kitchen knife. It also took me about an hour but I'm still not fully satisfied. Once it starts losing it's edge I'll practice some more of course!
I'm also going down the rabbit hole of knives and sharpening now haha. Once I have more experience with sharpening maybe I'll think of upgrading.
Hey, congrats on your success! This video may be helpful:
czcams.com/video/xGy4hWO_rTw/video.htmlsi=tiRAF-17qt27S3UF
I had considered getting a tumbler but hadn't found a decent objective test that I trusted until now. This is the best review/test of that type of sharpener I have ever found and, personally, I will stick with my whetstones. I have become really used to sharpening that way after a few years, and now I even sharpen knives for a few friends and neighbours. Every couple of months, I'll ask my friends how their knives are doing, and if I can get a few who need work done, I'll spend an afternoon with my whetstones sharpening and honing a bunch of knives. For some reason, I find it very relaxing and I really enjoy it! 😄
I'm glad to hear it, keep up the good work!
Nathan making the knife hug the curb was the highlight of my day
I've been waiting for this review. Thank you guys!
Happy to hear it!
Thank you guys for this helpful comparion video, actually I was hesitating getting one tumbler sharpener just out of curiosity, even though I'm a very satisfied user of shapton pro stones. It seems there's no royal road in sharpening, you get what you give :)
Amazing review! Thank you so much! The beginner/expert side by side is a great idea to get the best perspective.
Thank you!
Check out horl sharpeners. They were doing this before tumbler and have much more refined higher end products that tumbler. I’m gonna be buying one in the near future
Awesome! We were aware they were the original, so we'd love to give one a try.
The price of that roller sharpener is wild. It costs about a third more than a WorkSharp Precision Adjust, a guided angle reciprocating arm sharpener that comes with 3 grits, is infinitely adjustable between 15 and 30 degrees, and is safer to use. And the WorkSharp is way more versatile and gives better results.
The Tumbler might help to grind at a consistent angle (within a narrow range of blade heights and profiles), but it looks like it makes deburring more awkward, which is like a golfing aid that drives for you but can't putt.
Tiff has a great vibe on camera!
I have that album, love Tom Waits.
It took me a couple of uses to get comfortable with the Horl 2 barrel sharpener, but once I got it down it takes me about 5-10 minutes to tune up several knives (kitchen and pocket) sharp enough to shave. I do that to all of my knives every month so I've gotten a fair bit of practice. The first couple of times it was a bit awkward. I used to sharpen woodworking chisels on whet stones so I know how to use them, but this all fits in a little box in my cupboard, takes minimal counter space, and the whole process is so darn quick.
We gotta give the Horl a try!
@@KnifewearKnives Honestly, I'd say just practice a bit with the tumbler and know that the disk is about 2000 grit (something I just learned myself). It won't bring a knife back to life like a stone, but it's good for a quick tune up.
great murneng both of you... I really thankful to see your videos especially learned how to sharpen... many people will learned and use their jobs.... especially to my country here in the Philippines... and also me because I am a butcher deboner..... thank you very much I will to other people here.... I wish some we will meet you in person! by God grace.... I call you now my mentor even in the Internet will see... but very useful and helpful.... knife for the people.... 🔪🗡️❤️❤️❤️🙏🙏🙏
Thank you!
I like that you called out the height of the knife towards the end. I suspect the roller thing would be completely useless with a Chinese-style cleaver (which I use often and love dearly). Whetstones are just so worth the time investment to learn how to use, because you can sharpen anything with them.
Not that I’m a fan of ip theft, but for tall blades you just need to lift the roller with a thick book or something.
Nothing beats a whetstone sharpening done right. Nothing. The issue is many cannot do it right, with inconsistencies and differing angles.
Sharpening systems are great for beginner and intermediate
I would like you to do a video on the Horl system as well. I think that will do better as it can come with several attachable diamond & ceramic grits, and I heard it's better than the Tumbler. Could be a fun comparison video in the future.
Absolutely!
same 🙋♂just saying... @@KnifewearKnives
As far as I know the Tumbler is just a copy of the Horl. Don't know how this is possible legally.
Absolutely agree with you on this. The Horl system is THE original roller-type sharpener, so I believe that would be a more appropriate comparison. I don't have a particular preference either way, that's just my initial thought.
I mean, in Japan you have a house stone. That's the final word. You quickly sharpen up on the house stone, then maybe strop on whatever you're wearing and it takes no time at all to repair an edge. I can't see these roller things replacing that.
The biggest issue with the roller (outside the price, durability concerns, and lack of flexibility) is that I just don't think it's really able to DEAL with any heavy sharpening jobs. I get people coming to my booth every week to get knives sharpened to desperately need the sort of fixes that one can only do quickly on a 200 grit stone. I even have an 80 grit stone that I will do heavy metal removal and tip repair on. The sorts of chips and damage people put in knives aren't going to be repaired by a tool like this.
Thank you. I was just about to buy the tumbler system, but not anymore .
Glad to help!
I Love how he helps her with bottle of water )))
I would lo e to stone sharpen my kitchen knives, but they are expensive. I love the knife sharpening tool to help you with the angles. Where did she get that from?
We carry it!
knifewear.com/products/tojiro-togi-grip-sharpening-clip-f-443
We also found that the prices of a basic set of whetstones is about the same as the gadgets!
Thanks for this! Maybe one day try the horl 3k / 6k stone upgrade please!
It definitely sounds like a better system!
The roller looks sus, we been knew that. Ive used both. For home use, sure the roller is okay. As a professional i wouldn’t trade my wet stones. There’s weeks where my knife needs a quick pass on the 4k and sometimes i have to rework my edge. Not to mention the variety of knives like single beveled debas, or long and skinny sujihikis. I would highly recome anyone that is serious about having sharp knives to invest the time and money on wet stones.
Stone sharpening all the way! I find it very therapeutic.
At what angle does that little Tojiro clip-on angly thingy keep the knife?
About 15 degrees! It varies slightly depending on the height of the knife.
@@KnifewearKnives Thank you! :)
Naoto just did a Naruto run on that knife. Crazy fast sharpening!
Try and use even back & forward motion start with ight Presser as the sharpener bits the knife blade edge add more presser with each Push or Pull motion Keep count on each pass..i hope this help...O...try Circles..in a Slow Motion.....
Thoughts on the Work Sharp Ken Onion belt sharpener compared to these?
I've never tried it, but I've heard good things!
Love Naoto he so cool 💯
... he is* so cool.
Those tumbler sharpeners do actually have a small learning curve, you do have to inspect the blade after you do a round of sharpening; you'll probably notice you have to spend a bit longer on certain parts of the blade. Also, once you're maintaining a blade rather than going from completely dull it's much, much quicker.
watching him sharpen a knife makes me wish i knew how to do it that fast.
It just takes 15 years of practice 😅
It did what I thought it would..... limited functionality in a single grit.... 🤷. I'll continue investing my time/money improving my Stone technique✊️🤪👍🏻
Could you explain how the Tumbler and similar products aren't simply a pull-through sharpener in a different package?
The tumblr is actually acting on the steel in the same way a stone would, by abrading away steel from the side of the bevel. Many pull-throughs are more like ripping and scraping steel off the sides and thus you usually end up with a sharp but pretty rough and non-uniform edge. Plus pull-throughs usually don't have different "grits" for getting a good fine edge. Pull-throughs really aren't bad for using on like a beater yard work knife or something but are going to give a really rough, toothy, and ragged edge for any kind of finer work.
Couldn't have said it better myself!
@@knownaigm Got it! Thanks for taking the time to explain that!
I want a Japanese knife and was sold crap befor, how do I order from your shop?
Head to knifewear.com! Feel free to shoot us a message or email if you need help or want more info on who made your knife.
Why didn't you use the steel on the other side of the roller
Hey, Tiff does at 7:40 and Naoto does around 13:20.
Not related to the Tumbler, but you should try taste testing foods cut by rough edges vs fine edges.
Its very noticeable on tomatoes, but finer edges make food taste better (not just mouth feel)
It'd be cool if you guys can do a video on this topic.
Absolutely!
To me, those roll sharpeners make no sense for several reasons. 1. they are expensive 2. they are big, thus requiring more storage space than a diamond plate or whetstone 3. they only give you two different angles. 4. you operate them with the cutting edge of the knife facing up 4. you need both hands to hold them steady, one pressing down the sharpener so it actually rolls and does not slip, the other to press the magnetic holder against the roller 5. it requires practise to get one smooth, consise movement and sharpen the edge all the way through. Just slapping you knife on a cheap, double-sided whetstone and "scratching" along takes the same effort, if not less, saves money and storage space in your kitchen drawers.
45 seconds pfft, I've mastered the 0 second method, bandaid companies love me. For real though, that's a practiced hand
the tumblr u use if you still got a kind of sharp knife to get it good again. it's not for setting up a new Cutting edge after absolutely demolishing the blade on the pavement.
I spent like 400 Euro on a used 1500 Euro Wicked Edge set, the only money you'll ever need to spend and, more importantly, the LAST money I ever need to spend on sharpening...
Where you guys from
We're from Canada!
The Horl is more $$$ but a WAY better system.
Not much, it has the same problem with the tips, it's prone to flatten the curve of the knife, it can't be used for thining or single bevel knives and the small surface of the abrasive needs to be replaced frequently
I’m trying to figure out for the life of me why she thought you were supposed to use the steel on the same side right after using the diamond side. No way you’re going to remove the burr that way
Tumbler doesn't work because you are grinding the metal in itself .... where with wet stones you are pulling the metal away from knife
Maybe tumbler workers if you roll one Direction and reset from bottom and roll and reset will give you better Result. So pretty much roll up on 1 side and on the flip side roll down
17:16 just randomly decided to flex 🥵
Few things not clear form the video. For one you counter only sharpening time but not soaking time. 20 min more in that case. The. Watering during sharpening, dirt… I think that if I was not into knives I wouldn’t be convinced to start using whetstone. Why not advertise also diamond stones? They are much easier to use at same or better effectiveness. No need to flatten the stone, no need to soak in water.
The price of stones has been dropping. I would rather buy a knife for the price of that sharpener. It takes ten minutes to learn how to sharpen a knife. It takes about 3 hours to train yourself to use a whetstone. I have a drawer full of cheap sharp knives. I will be buying a strop soon. I may buy a high end knife after that.
Got a feeling their video/instruction is wrong
tumbler is cheap knock off of the horl 2 been a chef for 35 yrs and use wet stones shapton glass but 45 seconds is amazing .
We've got to try the Horl one of these days!
@@KnifewearKnives it is a much better version plus discs are removable
LOL at how biased you are in this video.
I found the Tumblr to be complete garbage. At least the return process was easy.
Beginners are not going to be thinning their knives.... It isn't really a comparison point. I know that you're trying to sell wetstones, but...
Great point! Because thinning is such an essential part of sharpening a Japanese knife, we always take it into consideration. If folks can learn to sharpen their own knives, thinning is relatively straightforward so we try to encourage it!
... whetstones* (from "to whet" = to sharpen)
@@KnifewearKnives With all due respect, thinning is nonsense. You want a thin-blade knife, buy a thin-blade knife. You have a thick-blade knife and want it to be sharper, sharpen it to a more acute angle. Not need for an effort that can't be corrected once it's gone wrong.
My first sharpening was thinning my knives, due to years of bad maintenance.
@@einundsiebenziger5488geometry is more important than sharpening for cutting food. You can fine cut tomatoes with an squared apex if the knife is thin enough
Tumbler seems like a gimmick to me. Nothing wrong with the old school way.
I completely understand that you guys like to promote your stone sharpening service.
But i am disappointed by the way you conducted this 'test'.
I have been using a roller for many years with great results.
Hey, I appreciate the feedback! If you have suggestions on improving it, please let us know! Are you using the Tumbler or the Horl?
The problem really is that the official instructions for the tumbler suck. I suspect it would do a whole lot better with a proper method like adjusting pressure, flipping sides in more conventional intervals and actually removing the bur on the correct side. At that point the tumbler is kind of useless though since the whole point of it is to be easy and require no knowledge.
I use neither the Horl or the Tumbler.
I have an earlier German product from the people who actually invented this system.
Sure, for the most demanding applications, i can use my wet stones. Like for repair jobs.
Not being a sharpness fetishist, but a regular hobby chef, i have no need for knifes that are so insanely sharp that the meats cuts itself out of fear for the knife.
I cut food, not newspapers.
I slice tomatoes. I don't give them a clean shaving job.
I need something quick and easy without setting up an entire sharpening station and soaking stones for 10 minutes before i can even start sharpening. Not to mention the cleaning up time.
Using the roller as a regular way of maintaining the sharpness of my knifes is absolutely perfectly adequate for me. My knifes slide through the food effortlessly.
The roller gives me an excellent sharpness on my German and Japanese knifes, that is perfect overkill for all normal kitchen work in a few easy minutes.
If i really want that little bit of extra sharpness i use the strop after the roller.
@@tjerkheringa937 I hear ya on the whole sharpening station thing. I personally use Shapton, splash a tiny bit of water and you're good to go and the storage box doubles as a stand.
I'm curious, what is the original product called and where can I find one? None of the hip branding BS.
What disappointed you about the way they performed the test? What more should they have done other than perform the test according to the printed directions? The fact is...these products are very limited in their ability to sharpen knives of varying bevel angles, blade heights, and knife conditions. I think they gave the product the best opportunity they could...by using new knives in good condition with straight undamaged blades. I have several old Sabatier knives with uneven grinds and even a slight propeller twist that this product would fail miserably with. With 20+ years of sharpening stone experience...I can easily deal with all these knife issues in just a few minutes. In my opinion, investing in ones own sharpening skills is a much better solution than chasing gimmicky products in order to avoid putting in the time to learn a valuable lifelong skill!