Stephen Murphy | Losing Faith in The Book of Mormon and Finding it Again.
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- čas přidán 21. 03. 2024
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In this episode Hayden interviews Stephen Murphy from @mormonismwiththemurph about his faith journey with The Book of Mormon.
The Stick of Joseph CZcams channel seeks to make the Book of Mormon accessible to all ages by making engaging, entertaining and informative content.
Like, subscribe and follow us on Instagram under the handle of @thestickofjoseph
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Thanks for having me on! I enjoyed the convo 😊
Love your channel Keep it up.
@mormonismwiththemurph Brilliant! Very informative and uplifting. Thanks, mate 🤗
Great video Murph! I love your channel, but oh, you cut me to the quick when you said you hated our accent, especially after just the other day I commented on how I'd come to love yours! 😅 I'm from Calgary and was born and raised in Lethbridge. Sadly we didn't get to meet while you were here, but thanks for serving us.
I live in the North West of England too. Hope to bump into you at an event or the temple. :)
Did you say you were from Northern Ireland? That's where I spent most my mission. Belfast, Newry, Larne, Lisburn, Derry, Omagh.
Maaaaaaaan I love these comeback stories.... Im here for it. Pray for the holding to the rod to persist. Happy for you.
@@dirkjensen969 I deserve that comment. I need to watch my words better. lol
Thanks for interviewing Stephen Murphy. I am a big fan of his Mormonism with the Murph channel. He is an excellent interviewer.
Thank you Phil
I am convinced by the Spirit and that download thing you mentioned that the Book of Mormon is absolutely true. I am encouraged by the points made here as well, Joseph, and really no person, could do what he did in so short a time with such limited resources without any backpedaling etc. The coming forth of the Book of Mormon is a miracle. Period.
Murph seems like a genuinely nice person. Need more people like him.
Aw thanks 😊
@@mormonismwiththemurph
So you're from Ulster?
The beauty of the BofM is the deeper you truthfully look into it, the more truthful it becomes. The honest truth seeker looking as you say "with both eyes open", will find it is as solid as the gold plates it was translated from.
We have to be willing to engage with the Holy Ghost, have faith in the gospel and Jesus Christ, and endure to the end. If we go to the scriptures we are constantly admonished to have faith and endure. We all have doubts because of experiences in our lives, but for me I cannot doubt the strong experiences and answers from God. They are NOT just feelings, but a witness of God's love for me. I have had many trials in my life and it has been the strength I receive through the Holy Ghost that has carried me through. In my heart I know that the scriptures testify of the truthfulness of this gospel and of JESUS CHRIST. I cannot deny that testimony even through the many difficult times in my life. My most recent struggling has been my spouseleaving the church and literally walking away from his family. I cannot and will not deny my testimony and faith in Christ and his gospel. I know God knowing heart and will make all things right.
I share some of your pain. Divorce is a terribly refining fire. Yeshua is with you.
Love it, thank you. Did I hear correctly that about 40% of people that leave the church come back? Likely, as time goes on, that number goes up.
That number is very optimistic. It’s not even close. I’d say more like 3%-7% might come back if we’re lucky. I love the gospel, I’ve struggled and not struggled at times. But I’m not buying that stat at all.
I'd have to see the actual numbers on that.
It was on a Ward Radio episode where they were interviewing someone who works for the BYU statistics department or something. The study has not been published yet, but the initial results show that 40% comes back.
It was this episode: czcams.com/video/g69agXRNpgI/video.htmlsi=mvPinWDvhuygL8fy
Not sure if 40% is true, I'm terrible at knowing what makes a reliable study haha
@@breezysperry2220 No worries. I'm deeply involved in ex-mo stuff.
I'm not seeing anything that approaches that number. It would be astounding if true.
I love the Murph! ❤ Good open dialog on his channel. Grateful to have him here on this channel.. 😊
Thanks I appreciate that ❤
I loved his comeback podcast episode- this was even better!! Thanks and I def am waiting for a part 2!!
Stand firm on the rock of revelation my friends.
It's great to see Stephen on your show, he's great and I relate to his story!
Thanks BUD!
Great interview and again learned a few cool things about the Book of Mormon I didn’t know!!! Thanks for this!!!!!
Great episode. Thank you both for what you are doing, this kind of content has been helping me so much with my own faith journey. 🙏
I would struggle to read 8-10 pages a day, let alone dictate. 😂😂
For me, the one thing that doesn’t move me towards or away from JS actually translating the BoM, is the possibility to have written it on his own via stream of consciousness or whatever. There are quite a few instances of younger people, or same age, writing more without a transcript. It’s no where near as cohesive as what JS did while translating but not impossible. Many other things about the translation move me towards my 100% belief that it was translated how JS claims, and for me it is from after reading it, attending church, participating in church, then at 19 praying after a full reading and the spirit (via the way that touched me) knowing it is pure truth.
26:29 I wish more people talked about this. We just don't have a good word for this in our languages, and so we use "feeling" as the closest approximation. But as you mention, being wrought upon by the Spirit is more than a feeling.
To me the “feeling” comes from the PRESENCE of the Holy Ghost. When people ask me how the HG works with me, I describe it as a presence. I rarely say it is a feeling or emotion. I get a good feeling when my wife is in the room with me. It is the same concept for the Spirit.
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:v8
100% true.
James 2:17-19 is also true.
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
I've recently been watching his channel, it's awesome!
Thanks glad you're enjoying it
Elder Murphy, who was my son’s comp at Christmas time, talked about the cys (cows). I had no idea what he was talking about 😂😂😂. I understand him much better now.
Haha it takes a bit of getting used to
Just My Opinion that we examine the questions that we ask. When asking questions we should be asking questions the purpose of coming closer to God. Often times the individual morphs into asking questions that will take them further from God.
Very good. Thank you.
I have published four novels in my lifetime. Anyone that has tried to write a book with multiple characters, plotting, etc., knows how difficult a challenge that is. It's really easy to say that one could dictate something in a stream of consciousness and have it all work out. Try it sometime. Just give it a month. You will discover for yourself just how difficult that would be. And, by the way, after you have been at it for 2 months, well, time is up. Oh, not done yet? Well, Joseph did it in just over two. What's your excuse? Oh, by the way, no computer, and only one draft. Good luck!
Excellent points! Also it's hard to keep all the different groups of peoples organized and the many stories of the rise and fall of civilizations along with perpetual wicked elements of human nature are a study in and of itself. It's super complex yet is loaded with so much to enrich and enlighten faith and belief.
Watching you speak right now on the stick of Joseph. Have to say I loved how your dad got you some material from Bruce Porter. He is so wonderful and zi love him and his dear wife. I got to know them personally in Arizona where he taught and I believe may still teach as well. I love how he teaches and have learned so much from my own father and Hugh Nibley and Bruce Porter. So glad you came back and really listened to the spirit.
This was an excellent interview and I can’t express how much I enjoy your channel! I found Stick of Joseph through Mike Day, as I listen to Talking Scripture… both of which, and with this interview, appeal to me for both the wonderful intellectual and logical aspects along with the profound spiritual insights and confirmations. Thank you for providing such spiritual and intellectual food for thought!
A thought I’ve had during this interview and others, is that the duplication around certain themes, ideas, dreams (Joseph Smith Sr.’s similar dream to the Tree of Life for example) to me is actually more evidence of that theme, content or idea being from God- that inspiration, revelation, and enlightenment around truth is not contained to one person speaks more of the love and equity of God to mankind rather than evidence that Joseph Smith ‘copied’ an idea. Interesting that people think that is more plausible than that truth is given by the Spirit to men and women who seek it. The more replication found throughout time and cultures speaks of truth being present to me.
Again, delightful to hear his story and inspiring to know that faith journeys do not always lead not always to an ending of faith lost… but can be truly a journey in learning and can be stronger for it (from a mother with three of my four children struggling with various levels of questioning and faith). It brings me much hope. Sincere thanks!
Thinking about Nephi's bow: it makes sense that the translator chose to use "steel" to resonate with the KJB even if it was bronze. After all, the translator chose to render what is obviously bronze as "brass" to agree with KJV usage. The 1828 Webster's Dictionary distinguishes between "bronz" as an alloy of copper and tin (which, again, would be the "brass" mentioned in both the Book of Mormon and the KJB) and "brass" as an alloy of copper and "zink."
Nephi writes that his bow is steel, but that his brothers' lost their springs. It could be that theirs didn't have the metal reinforcement that his did, and that therefore the warping on theirs from the climate didn't damage them as severely. But also Nephi is repeating over and over and over that he's a *smith.* He never misses a good chance to mention metal. This makes sense as part of his purpose in writing the Small Plates as sealing his legitimate claim to rule. The records give every indication that metallurgy was something the Lamanites lost at the time of the split.
How much would a metal bow weigh?
You guys should talk about your connection to Tim Ballard.
I really identify with Stephen’s statement about “interpretation of facts”. For example one could say Joseph Smith borrowed from Joseph Smith Sr’s dream about the tree of life and another could say his dream was a witness to him that the Book of Mormon is true.
I live in southern Alberta close to Lethbridge, that's so cool
I'm Italian and a member of the church of Jesus Christ and I see that in USA so many members are having doubt about the bom and really I ask myself but this people haven't read it before? Or better studied it? It's ok have question but all your life what you have done? Only believe the things people said to you? This is not how God want we act in our life, He want that we know by ourself.
Spent most of my mission in Northern Ireland.
Nice, ever serve in Portadown?
@@mormonismwiththemurph Belfast, Newry, Larne, Lisburn, Derry, Omagh were cities/towns I was stationed in but I definitely knew about Portadown and I think might have been there on trades.
The individual who made “Gods Army” left the church years ago with a faith crisis. Great movie but sad what happened with the creator.
Oh I didn't know that
I would love to make connections with the Calgary Canada mission as Calgary is my home!! I'm 99.9% sure you served in my ward or close to my ward!
What ward you from?
I served in the East and South
@@mormonismwiththemurph I was in New Brighton ward or Inverness ward.
All the Hebrew literary connections that are in the book. How would a Joseph know any of that?
Tolkien did work on The Lord of the Rings for a long time, created a reference for it to use while writing, and would go to a club to talk with other people about it while he was working on it.
There isnt anything worth having if it isnt yested now and then. This being done reaffirms out belief system. I also was tested and nesrly left. But decided to research the BOM, and Joseph Smith, and thankful to the lord . For it didnt send me away , but instead increased my faith exponentially .
When you have seen an angel and saw the plates why then would you want to leave the church when you had been shown these truths
47:00
the lord of the rings took 30 (?) years to complete.
7:15 Lethbridge!!! When were you there Murph?
2016 from January to April
Way cool! I grew up in Raymond, but I left long before you got there. I see on facebook we have a few friends in common though.@@mormonismwiththemurph
1:00:15 - this is similar to a thought that’s been cooking in my brain as to how the names given to the native tribes like the Ohio, Illinois, and Iowa sound similar to JHW or YHW (YaHWa - Jehovah).
…But why would they say “Yahwah” to the French to where they would call the people by that name?
“Yahwah” means “thank you” in Mohawk 🤷🏻♂️
Any takers?!
I just can’t make the connection from the genius of Joseph Smith which I agree with to a prophet of God. I just think he was one of those savants that comes around once in a century. Same thing could be said regarding the prophet Ellen G. White of the Seventh Day Adventist faith. The comparison between them is very interesting.
2nd comment re BOM. My father was a prominent historian who wrote 20 academic history books in his field so I know what producing a history book looks like. He was highly credentialed, it took years of painstaking research of original archives then reading dozens of existing books. The actual writing of the text took many months if not years - even on his most productive days he’d manage 1,000 words per day and Joseph Smith, in order to conooete the translation in the known available translation time was cranking out 8,000 words per day! Finally, the publishing process was a very lengthy laborious process of many dozens of drafts that went back and forth with the editors with extensive modifications to the original. When you compare what’s left of the Original Manuscript of the BOM with the Publishers Manuscript, the number of changes are minuscule and relate to a tiny handful of unusual names’ spelling. To believe JS wrote the BOM requires the must gargantuan leap of faith and ascribes to him unprecedented literary genius that belies the reality of his limited frontier education
I see you're still spouting the vitamin C theory even after I've sent you scientific proof that there was not enough vitamin C in wild game around the Jerusalem wilderness. The Nephi steel bow is problematic because Joseph says that the bow was made of fine steel. The steel mentioned in the bible is anachronistic. The original manuscript said bronze, but the transcribers chose the word steel to mean power/strength. I would love to go over all of the other points made, but I doubt it would sway either of you.
Scientific "proof"? Can you post a link to this comprehensive study of vitamin C contents in wild animals in this area? I have read things that seem to say differently (non-religious studies).
@@waynemoon8246 I've sent everything to the Paul bros. I can't send links through CZcams
God's Army came out in the year 2000 😊
It seems older lol
The Lehi Trail videos by George Potter compellingly show 45 consecutive geographical features in Arabia that closely correlate with the features mentioned in the BOM. There were no detailed geography books published at the time of the translation that detailed places like Khor Korfat (possible Bountiful location). The statistical likelihood of Joseph Smith guessing all 45 in order is of a magnitude so massive that there’s no English word for the number of zeros in the power of 10.
Are there trees in Khor Korfat suitable to build wooden ships? Is there ore or evidence of smelting to fabricate nails and tools? Where did Nephi get the wool to make the sails? How did they carry and store food and water for the long trip?
@@dr33776 yes inland from Taqah (coastal town of Khor Korfat) is Wadi Darbat (Valley of Large Trees) where large juniper trees grow big enough and suitable for masts and keels of an ocean going vessel. Potter’s videos show these trees some as large as 20 feet in circumference. That part of the Omani coast supported a vibrant shipping industry (transporting frankincense to India) and there were all kinds of kinds of sailing support products made and plenty of sailors who were holed up there during the monsoon season who could teach Nephi and family various in and outs of ocean sailing
The Canadian twang ey? 😂
Yep haha
I feel like Dan Vogel actually believes in The Book of Mormon.
Haha... then you don't know Dan Vogel.
@@MemyzelphandI He fights against it but believes it deep down.
@@CMZIEBARTH Whatever keeps you in this cult
@@MemyzelphandI What alternate path do you suggest people follow?
@@CMZIEBARTH Follow wherever the truth takes you, but don't make up silly statements like Dan Vogel is secretly a BOM believer.
You should do a believer to critic show also....
Ugh
@@jordan-xe2yb 😁
No use. Statistically those people end up in miserable lives.
@@budgillett What's weird is there's no such statistical analysis to draw such a conclusion from....
@@rodneyjamesmcguire Good Brother Rodney, thou art in the right; indeed, I have erred. Yet, this error hath drawn forth thy response, after many a moon without word. How fare thee in these times, dear brother? Hast thou chanced upon any new and fascinating truths of late, be they of history or the very essence of life itself?
You’re wrong
When you seek answers from the Book of Mormon instead of the Bible, God can't help you because you have turned your back on Him. Therefore this leaves the door open for Satan (II Corinthians 11:14-15) to step into your life with a false christ or prophet showing you signs and wonders to lead you away from the real Jesus of the Bible who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity. God Himself warns us about this in: MATTHEW 24:23-24
"Then if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Christ! or There! do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect..."
Mormons teach and believe that their jesus is the brother of Satan, which contradicts what God says in His Bible that Jesus is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity.
So Mormons, which Jesus do you believe in?
A. Your jesus of the Book of Mormon, who is the brother of Satan.
OR
B. The Jesus of the Bible, who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity.
Albert, there you are again spouting the same nonsense. The Saints seek answers from BOTH books... not instead of. When people turn their backs on YOUR interpretation(s) of the Bible, they aren't turning their backs on God, ya know. Only on your bad ideas. :>)
@@godsoffspring4195
The Biblical and academic evidence provided says otherwise.
@@AlbertJLouiebiblical and academical would read the Book of Mormon if it claims to be an additional witness of Jesus Christ. The spiritual would go ahead to pray about the truthfulness of it. If you read the book, it never mentions explicitly that Jesus and the Satan are brothers. However, we do believe that we are all children of God. You who is vehemently waging war against his Son Jesus Christ and me who wants more knowledge of the truth about Jesus Christ are all children of God. Go and read the book! Study your scriptures! Are you actually watching the video you are commenting under? You are just lazy and don’t want to learn.
Do better next time.
@papayaw2920
And you ignore the Biblical and academic evidence against the Book of Mormon.
You base your beliefs more on back-room conspiracy theories combined with a lifetime of being brainwashed & indoctrinated that has robbed you of mental ability to question anyone/church claiming to be of God.
Meh. Joseph was wrong about the book of Abraham so I would be right about the Book of Mormon?
Nay.
@@budgillett
Well, the fact that the book of Abraham, after was translated by Smith, and then translated by Egyptologist prove that there’s a massive disconnect shows that he was wrong.
Ah! I perceive thy words, good brother or sister, concerning the visage of a winsome pug profile picture. Might thou impart the knowledge interpreted by the learned Egyptologists? Verily, it stirreth interest. What exactly was translated?@@Sirach144
The “translation” of the Book of Abraham wasn’t a direct translation. It simply was a catalyst for the revelations Joseph received that became the Book of Abraham.
@@chrisp8426
Which is highly incorrect, considering that he wrote the exact order of the hieroglyphs and then proceeded to translate them. He also said that it was written on papyrus by the hand of Abraham. Which found that was a lie through dating. He even wrote down with each of the symbols meant in a paragraph. And then you find out they say absolutely nothing that he said it did.
Mormons, NO RESTORATION IS NEEDED.
Because Jesus already has established His Church.
MATTHEW 16:18
"And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it..."
JUDE 3
"Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints..."
Jesus already has established His Church and built it on a rock so the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.
Also, the faith was ONCE and for all already delivered to the saints.
No mention of any Mormon restoration in the past, present, or future.
Look up the parts in the Bible about how there would be an apostasy before Christ came again.
@CMZIEBARTH
I did, it's says NOTHING about any so-called Mormon restoration.
@@AlbertJLouie You are entitled to feel that way.
@CMZIEBARTH
It's not a "feeling," it Biblical and academic evidence against the Book of Mormon.
I tried to share that evidence to you before, but you chose to ignore it.
@@AlbertJLouie I have gone through all of it years ago.
^_^ Poor mormons !