EXCLUSIVE: We played 5 hours of Judas and interviewed creator Ken Levine | Friends Per Second #41
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- čas přidán 26. 05. 2024
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Hello and welcome to a very special episode of the Friends Per Second podcast. Last week we were in Boston visting Ghost Story Games where we got to play 5 hours of Judas, followed by a deep-dive interview with legendary creator Ken Levine, whose previous works include Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite.
This is not a 'preview' - this is a 'pre-preview', in that the game is still very much in development. Our conversation is focused on what Judas is, why it is the way that it is and what Levine and his team are aiming for as they continue development.
While we were invited by Ghost Story Games and publisher Take Two Interactive, we paid our own accommodation and airfare costs so as to ensure our editorial independence.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro and Impressions
32:19 Raycon (ad)
34:28 AG1 (ad)
36:37 Interview with Ken Levine of Ghost Story Games
02:22:40 Wrap Up
- Jake Baldino (aka the Before You Buy Guy) is pretty much the most watched reviewer on CZcams across both Gameranx and his personal channel ( / jakebaldino . If you're obsessed with Delorians, The Mummy and Pizza you can discuss that stuff with him directly over on Twitter: @JakeBaldino
- Lucy James is a Senior Producer at Gamespot and a Creative Producer at Giant Bomb. She's actually, like, experienced and credentialed and has real life skills and stuff, while the rest of the gang would be funemployed if the YT algorithm didn't kiss them for random, inexplicable reasons.
- Skill Up used to work at McDonalds but he got fired for skimming too many chicken nuggets. He says he regrets it since he hasn't had a better job since.
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Love how Ralph and Lucy were both standing up and taking breaks during the playtest, but the MAIN MAN Jake just powered through like a true gamer
It’s like how Jake sometimes ‘raw dogs’ a flight and does absolutely nothing. Our protagonist.
havent watched yet but 5 hrs and anyone taking a break is just weak ;) love ralph and lucy, hope they dont hate me now LOL
Jake is a truly enlightened human
@@kahrhoshe they don't know about your existance neither do they care.
@@sinkingdonut156 just like I we don’t care that each other exsist or care about each others opinions.
Feels surreal to see a Levine game after this long.
it just looks like Bioshock we have at home.
Its bioshock
@@Lerkero the man can only make one game is what I'm saying lol
@Haste444 who cares? Why should he have to do more than that? Weird take
@Petrical levine doesn't have to do more than that, but its not "surreal" that hes making another game because the game looks like what he's done before. If levine was making something different than before, then it would seem surreal to me
I could listen to Ken talk about his games for hours. It’s clear how much passion he has for them.
he doesn't have much of a social life? he doesn't do much else than develop and play games and hang out with his wife and dog?
my kinda GOAT
As someone who loves BioShock, NO FUCKING WAY
But also, I love how far these guys have gotten.
I am hard but also.... I am nervous
@@notmethnxthere’s always a lighthouse…….in the pants
@@TheHulksMistress don't know what to recommend for constant boner syndrome... I imagine it is fatal
@@TheHulksMistress what kind of gamurgrilz r u on mister
This game seems like Ken's take at an evolution of Bioshock with Prey: Mooncrash.
Hearing inventory resets and procdeural, that was where I first went. Given how disappointing Deathloop was by comparison, I genuinely hope they pull this off
Yeah, I though about Mooncrash too
I definitely get prey vibes
This is one of the best dev interviews I have watched in a long time.
Ken is a really down to earth dude. Humble, knowledgeable and he has a lot of interesting things to say. Guy is a legend and comes across as a grounded, nerdy lover of games. I really dig this.
But shout outs to the crew. You asked really good questions, made it a flowing conversation full of super interesting discussions. It's not easy to pull of an interview and make it entertaining, not stilted and flowing at the same time.
The guy on the far right’s questions could have been edited down. Some of his questions were longer than Ken’s responses 🙉
Ralph: “It isn’t just Bioshock in Space”
System Shock series: “Am I a f***ing joke to you?”
He low key talked about this comment on his next video
yeah but in all honesty who tf is talking about or playing system shock these days, like "bioshock in space" resonates more with people i feel lol
@@MrXxsnipesXx Which is a shame because Bioshock is a shadow of System Shock, especially SS2.
@@MrXxsnipesXx Many people still talk about and play System Shock these days, especially with the remake of System Shock 1. In fact, I'd dare say there's more people talking about System Shock than there are people talking about BioShock.
System Shock is not Bioshock in space. Its game design is entirely different from the linearity of Bioshock. They have Shock in their titles. That's about the only thing they have in common. Whoever originally referred to Bioshock as a spiritual successor to System Shock was obviously and clearly incorrect.
"Rich play-time, not just play-time for play-times sake" the statement that sold me the game.
😂 lol you sound like an easy mark. A procedurally generated mark.
I remember an interview of Ken Levine like a decade ago where he was talking about innovation in games and how he needed to transform the player experience. I've been waiting ever since to see what he's been cooking. Love this pod for being that platform for him.
Edit: After watching this a flood of nostalgia reminded me why i loved this man's work so much. I remember the feeling of finishing Bioshock infinite the first time and being in a state of shock and awe and tears throughout the credits. i can't wait to experience Judas.
Innovation but then he makes bioshock 4? I mean this looks cool for sure but unless there are some systems being hidden from previews, this is just bioshock again.
@@johnwrath3612 did u even see the video?
@@johnwrath3612yeah I remember bioshock being a series of procedurally generated roguelites that shift their entire game design around player gameplay preferences too. That was soooo cool when that definitely happened in Bioshock series before.
Maybe you should watch the video again.
@@johnwrath3612it’s not bioshock. You are clearly deaf & dumb, it might have similar “aesthetic “ look, but it’s a completely a different game! He even explained why it has that exaggerated aesthetic! 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@MomirsLabTech these are the people kojima was talking about. call of duty brains that can't handle words in a string forming sentences. all they know is "switching to your side arm is faster than reloading"
i found this interview really inspiring and insightful tbh, you can tell that this guy is confident with his process and he is really good at expressing how the game takes shape in his head, you don't often see devs in his position revealing that much so eloquently, without being vague/mysterious. really cool. good luck with the game!
Ken Levine, you are an absolute legend. I hope you know how deeply you have impacted so many through your storytelling. You will always live in the hearts of gamers through the amazing experiences you've made. Thank you Mr. Levine.
The only thing more incredible than the core game design principles of Judas is all of the people in this comments section who ignored the entirety of this videos discussion points and posted a comment saying "this is just bioshock 4".
Nah fuck that. This is Ken Levine and my ears have been glued to to this entire podcast. I'm here to take it all in and get hyped for Judas. Take my money!
No shit dude, it's so weird. It's amazing how someone can be so consistent over a literal decade about what this game is about and people just see it and think "oh it's like the last thing" just because you shoot in one hand and use powers in the other. Almost makes me feel bad for him
It's really boggling my mind, the only explanation is ppl commenting for attention without watching the video. I was not prepared for how transparent Levine would be on the underlying mechanics and design of Judas, but hearing about the whole lego philosophy of modular, bespoke pieces designed to fit seamlessly together in a procedural way is such a mind bogglingly brilliant concept it's kind of weird that we haven't seen anything like it before. And then to hear Ralph say he wasn't able to tell the game had procedural elements, that it worked so well none of the FPS crew could even tell? That's absolutely WILD.
From all we've seen here Judas is going to be something really new and different, and I'm so unbelievable excited and ready for whatever that may be.
@@Ryan-nm8pw Well, it's not without precedent. Think about all of the 'legos' in a game like Hades, for example. Or XCOM, a game that Levine mentioned here. The really unique part seems to be applying that concept to narrative and storytelling. But yes, the fact that Ralph wasn't able to tell that the game was procedural is impressive.
The Twitter discussion around this game is nothing but potshots at Ken because he's doing Bioshock in space again.
Basically, no one fucking watched anything about the game and are mouthing off regardless.
Hearing Ken talk about his design aesthetic made me think about his extreme love of musical theater. His character models and visuals are kind of like the videogame version of playing to the back row of an audience at a musical. You can't be too subtle, or they won't track the emotive through line. Musicals have heightened emotions, movements and aesthetics that are exaggerated but also extremely grounded when pulled off well, something I think his games have done very well. Excited to see what Judas has in store.
at first i was excited for a spiritual bioshock 4, so when i heard that it was semi procedural and rogue lite i was a bit dissapointed, but over the course of this podcast ive become so excited by how different the composition of this game is now my most anticipated game. Ken talking about the existentialism of a person finding out they are not human has me so excited THIS IS MY TYPE OF GAME!
I genuinely think this could be Ken Levines Magnum Opus
Curious if it turns into a Lavine version Deathloop clone.
"Failing forward"
Inspiration in it's purest form. I absolutely love the underpinning philosophies that inspired this game and the creatives behind it. With photo realistic graphics feeling pretty sameeey this generation it's so exciting to hear something new in the works with the modular design to Judas. Our AAA space is in desperate need of creative risks.
Was not expecting Ken to go as much into detail about the characters as he did towards the back end of the interview. He was being so cryptic at the beginning that I was like, "Stop man, youre going to spoil your game!!"
Yeah I just commented the same. I don’t even know who he’s talking about. He’s referring to them by name as if we know who they are lol. I think he momentarily forgot that he’s actually speaking to the public, who haven’t played the game at all, rather than 3 people who already have 5hrs in it.
Made me more excited, but that’s cuz I’m personally not sensitive to spoilers. If I were, I might be a bit annoyed.
I'm still early on. I guess I'll duck out before the last half hour or so. Thanks!
happy 1 mil ralph, you deserve it man
The narrative Lego is reminiscent of the original FEAR AI. It felt incredibly responsive and intuitive, simply because the game had a lot of assets that could speak to exactly what the player was doing. Even just the library of voice lines discribing where you were and what you did makes it feel like you're up against an intelligent enemy.
Fear has one of the best AI for enemies in gaming. Almost 20 years and that statement keeps being true.
Quality takes time. Good to see he's always been there in the background.
Too long. If you’re taking over a decade to put out a game you’re doing it wrong. All 3 Bioshock games came out in the span of 6 years.
@@rav186Wdym? It took Ken 8 years since SS2 to make BioShock 1 and 6 years from BioShock 1 to BioShock Infinite, BioShock 2 is from different studio. And don't forget his new studio have around 30 people.
@@rav186 What games have you created and released? How many sales did it make? Did people like your games?
Anytime you're able to get an interview/opportunity like this to go hands on with one of the most anticipated games always puts a smile on my face. You three have well and truly become my GO TO when it comes to video games coverage. Also great to hear that numerous game devs watch your show. That's so amazing! I loved the Bioshock games but I absolutely suck at roguelike games - looking at you Returnal. So that may put me off on playing this game BUT I'll give it a try!
Not where I expected to hear from Ken again for the first time in a mighty long time but it's great to see.
My Ghost Story Games postcard is starting to feel like a tangible object again and not one I dreamt up
Some of the questions in this interview were among the best I’ve heard in games journalism. Directed the interview to super interesting places. I was interested before- but now Judas is a “take my money” game. Thanks for this.
This was absolutely fascinating. Blown away by what he is trying to accomplish here. Extremely excited now. 😮
Bro Ken was just so damn chill, and everything he said opened my eyes to different aspects of CREATION. I've scarcely been so excited for something I know so little about, and I frankly can't wait to see what this game is when it releases.
Also seems like the coolest guy to just talk to about his experience in the industry. Being able to talk about Bioshock alone would make it worth it, let alone everything else. So neat.
Awesome art in the background!
Very reminiscent of the Bioshock propaganda. The art was by far my favourite part of that game
And the vigors on the shelf 😭
ur awesome art .
Hi Suzi 😊
@@IHateJakeRyanfacts
Ken is a legend. system shock 2 came out slightly before i was too young to play videogames, when i discovered how good it was in my 20's it instantly shot to the top of my list as an all time favorite. After this conversation, Judas is at the top of my list of mustplays. Well done, sir.
I’m rarely able to finish a full episode just due to time constraints despite watching each one, but I made time for this one! Incredible coverage of one of my most anticipated games… this has me so hyped, excellent job!
Bioshock shaped my gaming experience as a kid so I am down for a Ken Levine game.
What a fascinating discussion, you can just listen to Ken him talk for hours and always feel engaged. brilliant episode
Awesome episode. Very cool to see you three get this interview.
Certainly looking forward to this game. Always liked Ken Levine's games.
I’m so hyped for Judas!! So cool that y’all got Ken on
Thank you guys for putting out amazing content. Can't wait for this one!!
Loving the episode so far! Really need this game to be out like now:( have replayed Infinite soo many times, and there is nothing else like it. So excited for this
Thank-you so much for this upload. I was entertained and informed in a way which was refreshing.
Before I even watch this I want to say there literally couldn’t be a game you could play that would have me more excited than I just got reading the title of this video. Jake, your Metal Gear is my Bioshock.
You don’t know how good it is to see this man, I respect him so much! Can’t wait for Judas!!
How delightful to find out that a new game by Ken Levine is coming: Judas looks artistic and intellectual, as one would expect. I’m pretty sure we’ll be talking about it for years after its release, just like Infinite did.
This is an absolutely incredible interview
Been looking forward to this since it was announced, looking great so far
This was a GREAT interview. It was super interesting to hear Ken talk about his thought process and how he views things.
Cant wait to play Judas (:
Fantastic interview, well done! We get enough for two weeks, I can’t be the only one that watches the video and listens to the podcast, please tell me I’m not the only one….
Me as well.
Love the amount of time you all had with Ken. Him speaking about Judas was just as interesting as him speaking his views on other games.
This is awesome to get this interview, you guys. I'm so proud to be a viewer of this amazing show. I wish you continued growth.
Bruh...your username has me dead rn
@@reaper67309I don’t get it, what’s his username mean?
If I just heard "procedural roguelike in unreal 4" I would never look twice, but this was a much more interesting first exposure to this game. It really benefits from this long-form explanation
This episode absolutely ruled. Loved the interview with Ken, top stuff
Kevin Levine is a legend. So excited for this game!
Awesome episode, so fascinating to hear so much about an in development game. Really excited to play it when its ready
Wow an early look at Judas and a Ken Levine interview is a big get. Congrats
Let's be honest we didn't need this interview to sell us on Judas but it was cool to see Ken continue to place narrative front and centre in his games and hear what inspires him in that process
Love this so much thank you! Having played all the BioShock games ken is like a rockstar in my universe. I still remember how much I enjoyed Infinite, drawing timelines and try to understand what's going on. Exploring every single corner and being engrossed in the world. Pretty much excited to see how this shapes up but Im sure I will play this for sure. Thanks guys, really. Have a good one!
Im so happy to finally see kevin talking about his game , since his talk at gdc and I have waited every year for him to come and talk about his new project as he is doing right now , welcome back ken , I have huge hopes for the game cant wait to get my hands on it . Great interview guys , thank you for finally ending this 10 year long wait for me .
This was such an interesting interview!!! Thanks for that!
Awesome to see Levine, who was a video game idol of mine when I was a kid, appear on the podcast of my favorite content creators in my adulthood.
Feels weirdly nostalgic and magical at the same time.
I low key love listening to Ken his vision and perspective for games and game dev is always nice to hear.
I genuinely look forward to this podcast, it always brightens my day.
You guys have come so far. This is awesome.
Ken Levine is so passionate about his design approach. I love his enthusiasm as he talks about Judas' development.
Thanks for the detailed look into this game, Ralph and friends! Been waiting for a new project from Levine for quite some time, and this is the first deep dive into this game I've seen!
I think it may be THE first deep dive in the game?
When I think my all time favorite games Bioshock is allways the first one I think of. Very hyped for Judas.
it's awesome hearing about how you guys have gained notoriety with devs for being a great platform for them to speak on their games
Been waiting for this
I am at 1:50:00, about 3/4 of the way through the talk with Ken Levine, and as great as this interview is, I will finish it after I played the game. There havent been any real spoilers, its just...I dont even want to know more about the systems. Looking forward to the game and thank you to all 3 of you for this early look!
Thank you guys for the great content! Very interesting interview.
The graphics, animations & art style looks phenomenal. I really hope this is one of those AAA-eye candy games where you can get lost into the environment and story. Bioshock games are such a gem back in the days, I can only hope for that awesome DNA to be in this game!
So happy FPS is getting the recognition it deserves. Y’all rule! ❤️
Ngl, I anticipated the rougelike concept. Bioshock's game design really works as a rougelike. To see the creators work judas in this way is actually a pretty good move cause they can continue to iterate on that formula. Looking forward to how it shapes up.
Previews for both a Ken Levine and Amy Hennig game? What a year!
We are so back
this is true! i had totally forgot and that’s just plain beautiful imo. hmm, maybe 2024 will be my year then 🤔
So stoked for Judas and have been since I realized Lavine was back. Then you hit me with procedural elements. And then its a Rogue lite. And then my excitement when from day 1 purchase, to wait and see.
I am feeling old now but the original Bioshock game is the one game I will never forget. There are lots of games but for be Bioshock and Spec Ops The Line are 2 games that will always stick with me.
Wow, the first major scoop on Ken Levine's new game!! Congrats, he clearly really enjoys your podcast and your ability to articulate your thoughts on a game!
I love how much this legend of a man could think outloud, the way he expresses and explains in details, how many different subjects he could extensively talk about. He made this HIS show haha. Amazing episode guys! Keep it up.
Incredible interview. Congrats on this opportunity which I’m sure will lead to many more like it.
amazing episode as always keep it up!
You know when it comes to the concept of roguelites the initial thought is always "10-30 eur game with great gameplay loop and a unique idea", but after playing Returnal I realized that not only can those games push beyond indie or AA space, but they can have AAA qualities and from Ken Levine in particular I'm fully on board, even if the core gameplay does look a lot like Bioshock more than any other game out there, but the looping narrative driven roguelite concept is extremely intriguing.
Always think its about Judas Priest for a second when i see Judas
Ooh I hope they make their way into the soundtrack at some point
Me too dude \m/
New album was awesome!
Better that than the Fozzy song lol
I know right? Great metal band. I might be very biased though ...
This has become one of my go to podcasts of late ❤
Ken (says anything)
Ralph: mmm
The man’s words are tasty
So excited for this. Dude is one the best to ever do it.
Was looking forward to Judas, definitely even more interested now
This sounds incredible if they can pull it all off! So excited!
They are all in the same room!
Wooo! Best podcast out there. Grats Ralph on 1M.
Thank you all and thank you Ken for sharing all of this awesome information. Near then end , when you asked Ken about a release , reminded me about the delay of Infinite's release and the production team creating a joke about it with the Duke and Dimwit machine in the Battleship Bay arcade. Looking forward to Judas's release, whenever it is ready.
Cannot wait for this game. Thanks so much for interviewing Ken. What a brilliant creative mind
Ken is an absolute legend. So hyped for Judas. Great interview, everyone!
Great interview, great looking game, awesome that they chose you guys. Been a Skillup fan for many years, since I found the Far Cry 5 review when I first got into games, and was looking to see if it was worth trying out. Awesome to see this channel grow leaps and bounds.
I'd love a podcast episode of you guys just shooting the shit the whole episode. No feel bad drama, no interviews. This was Another great episode
Hearing that it is a rogue like, or has rogue elements makes me nervous. Bioshock Infinite is one of my favorite games, because it focuses so much on the story, the performances, exploring the world, and cinematic setpiece moments, and that is what I love. I don't want to have to replay levels because I can't heal myself in this game... I don't know. I hope it works out well and it is actually more like Bioshock Infinite and less like Deathloop....
It feels like it’ll be their version of Deathloop or rogue like though. That it would be more story forward and have a lot more personality, more innovation, more fresh perspectives to share than “shoot die repeat” … that’s why even though I didn’t like shooting games at the time, I tried Bioshock. It was so interesting that I figured why not. The gameplay still wasn’t for me but the story is one of the coolest ever told of any medium let alone video games
I feel like the God of war DLC and hades showed you can tell a completing story within the rougelike/lite model. Personally, I think the idea is very intriguing and can’t wait to see how they do it, tho I am cautious.
@@evanrutledge-sz4yo I like Hades, but I don't like it nowhere near as much as I like Bioshock Infinite. And I did not play the GoW DLC yet, because of the very reason that it is a rogue like and it turned me off. Maybe I would like it, and I guess I will give it a try one day, but I'm not really eager to jump onto it.
I was already incredibly excited, but now Im super syked for this game!
27:12 Not Jake and Lucy being perfectly in sync 😲
This fucking awesome! I'm so pumped for this game!!
So nice to see you all in BOASTON !
this might be the best episode of FPS ever
Amazing interview. Ralph asked the questions that really matter. Thank you.
Looks neat. I’m guessing the “family” is 3 AIs competing with each other to take over the ship and trying to influence the player to implement what they think is the best way to set up/run the future colony, the “mission.”
The sheriff could be the security/operations AI, one could be an AI responsible for education/entertainment, and then one for systems/administration? Just a rough guess! Whatever they are each responsible for, the ship systems are probably divided up between the 3 of them.
Here for it. Lets go!! 🤟
Hearing Ken talk about his dog was so real and relatable. Love the guy.
Oooohhhhh shhiiiittttt! A game that actually gets me excited. Its been a while!
Perfect interview - well done, good energy all around on this one.
I'm really getting excited for this game, ngl. Very much looking forward to how and if it all comes together in a great narrative in the end, but the idea and technical side is absolutely fascinating.