Quickly Clarified - Equal Length vs Unequal Length Headers (with Sound Comparison)
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- čas přidán 22. 12. 2020
- If you are familiar with Subaru’s famous EJ engine, you probably have heard of terms like Unequal Length Headers and Equal Length Headers. In this video, I'll be going over what headers are, what are the differences between equal length and unequal length headers along with a few sound clips.
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Don't forget the sound is also shaped by what you put after the headers too. You can get smooth and mellow or loud and raspy and combinations in btwn. That EL w/the Fujitsobo sounds nice. So, sound or power...if you want sound, change the turbo/cat/axle-back. For power, change the headers...
mhmm, correct. I do agree that fujitsubo one sounds really nice.
True, but the most significant variable in any exhaust system will always come from the path each tube travels prior to the main collection point.
@@JCMediaYT if u can get hold of the syms racing EL header, that one sounds pretty much the exact same as impreza wrc 99 rally car...
I got one..loving the powerband it delivers... Especially the smoothness at higher rev rsnge in touhe/mountain passes...
Too bad it made out of thin gauge tubing and prone to stress cracking... (Also reason why mine is sitting on thebstorage shelf for now)
I got a 93 Impreza non turbo which has el headers , I got a muffler and some exhaust work done which is 3 inch and the rest is stock, it feels restrictive it's not loud has a nice time a small suby rumble not on idle,can someone tell me why I'm losing power ?
@@igotthemidastouch8587 If it is a carb motor, you should check the air/fuel ratio after you check if you got a valve problem or debry stuck from gas to the headers, better do a cleaning from inside, and check your sparkplugs/electrics for any problem.
I perfer the equal length for the power and torque, but also love the rumble sounding EJ's.
I love the rumble but rather have the power and tq boost... plus I believe the = length gets more heat out of the equal size...
@@CrazyCat229 yall talking about like 5 ftlb
@@ethanol-fb 5ft/lb is subjective, because things can be exponential as power increases.
@@jardim23 its a joke its not that deep and its probably more around 6 my bad
lets make a system with a flap that switches between equal and unequal. that would be really cool but would also probably break every vew monts 😂
Even with equal length headers, you still can hear a bit of the Subaru rumble!
You’re probably referring to the Perrin ELH with this comment and when I had a set on my car I heard the described two ways. As a gateway drug to ELH or as ELH version 1.0.
I never measured tube length but I noticed my tomei ELH was much smoother sounding.
I’ve had my STi for nearly 10 years now and ELH was the first mod I did to that car and still my favorite.
UEL header sounds so sexy. I'll sacrifice a few hp/torque for that sweet sweet rumble.
Me too. Definitely considered for my 2.4L 2AZ xB.
Yup I love driving around in my rumbly Subaru. Puts a smile on my face even when I’m going slow in traffic.
I feel like I'm the only one that prefers screaming engines over roaring engine sounds lol.
@@oneplumpboi5317 I like all exhaust notes personally. 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 16 cylinders, NA, turbo, supercharged, rotary engines, 2 strokes, etc. they all sound good to me. I’ll never understand people who think v8s sound the best and bash on 4 cylinders, or vice versa. I just like engines and cars my dude
@@Rumblefan Bahahaha yeah, i like hearing a 4age screaming over 9k rpm over a v8 crossplane. Flatplane v8s tho, oof.
Love the tone of the unequal header.. but that equal perrin sounds pretty nice 2.
wow this finally explains why the WRX and STI sound so different.
yup, put UELs on the 15+ WRX and it'll sound like an EJ
Did u even watch the video? Sti and wrx sound the same. It's the headers that change the sound
3:02 OMG that pull sounded really good
Oh wow! I always thought the rumble was made specifically from Subaru engine, I don’t own one but it’s my favourite vehicle of all time!
definitely an interesting thing to find out! never thought i'd hear a civic sound exactly like an NA EJ motor
I'll never get tired of the sound of uel with my tomei ti exhaust and will keep it that way even though you can get more power from el just dont like the honda-esk sound at all
I agree, I also prefer the uel sound aswell
I agree the power difference is so small compared to the sound difference.
@@Sando_Brown exactly, it’s literally 2-5 horsepower more or less
Great explanation.
I knew about the sound qualities but now I know about tuning as well. Either way the EJ family of engines sound great. (:
Thanks!
@@JCMediaYT Tu sabe. Tu sabe!
I’ll trade rumble over torque ANY DAY, with the bolt one you can do to these, you’ll reach or exceed stock torque, depending on ferocity of your build
Unequal length headers can slightly improve low end torque
Unless you’re running over 500hp the difference between an equal and unequal is negligible. My coworker has a VA chassis STI that’s unequal and it’s at over 400awtq
Isn't any header better than stock?
@@afoxwithahat7846 honestly “better” is just relative to whatever your build is. My shop has a stock engine stock turbo WRX with a tomei down pipe and exhaust, on E85 making 344/363. The stock manifold is the best option in that case. It’s all relative
Cool.. i agreed Equal header is less rumble, but it has good torque characteristic
👍👍
For me there’s not a huge difference between the equal length header vs the unequal length header.
@@mohamedyasinarakkal5130 you will notice when you do time attack with narrow cornering characteristic circuit 😁
Really the only reason cars have it is just for the sound, and honestly. Who wants a Subaru without it? 😂
I prefer the rumble sound and don't care that I'm not making as much power and torque I just want my car to sound rumbly because..... idk it sounds cool to me
Unexpected final fantasy fan in the video. Right here with you brother.
Unequal length headers were common on Fox body Mustangs 5.0s, so I don't understand why people associate the rumble with boxer engines. That's why oldheads like the sound of WRXs compared with the exhaust notes of other hot hatches.
yup, maybe the effect of UELs are just more pronounced with boxer engines? especially 4 cylinder ones since they don't sound like any other 4 cylinder engine out there
Life goal, make every car rumble
Great video with the dyno graphs...My car has EL but I love the sound of UEL, I have a set in the garage ready to fit but I really don't want to mess with the engine performance..
yeah, I'm contemplating on going for an equal length on my car too...
uel EJ is just fire :) no question... I can live with less power, because the Subi Rumble is just too good
Never thought I would hear a civic sound like a Subaru
Intoxicating sounds of Subaru unequal length header
2:56 Sound Clips.
hello am john from Africa Kenya and I love your content thanks for he great knowledge
no problem! glad you enjoyed it
Thanks for the content bro... Subbed! 👍
Thanks for the sub! Glad you like it!
What set-up was the last WRX?
Mostly correct, but not. Buying an equal length header off the shelf is a good choice for a street/ strip application but not if you are trying to squeeze out every last hp. Ignoring tube diameter, the length of tubes and the collector can also be tuned for maximum efficiency. This all makes a difference and not engineered into off the shelf brands. A race engineered- custom header designed for the engine and turbo application is much better and turns out to be unequal in length. There are two reasons for this. First is, where the collector is located in relation to the exhaust ports and second, the firing order of the engine. Equal length tubes will cause sonic pulses that conflict at the collector destroying scavenging. Off the shelf models are designed primarily for fitment and not performance. A more thorough explanation may be found on CZcams channel Powertech10 featuring David Vizard, veteran race builder/driver/engineer.
An exhaust manifold is not the same as a header. A there are two headers on a v8 that then connect later down the exhaust. There is one exhaust manifold on an i4 that collects all the exhaust from all the cylinders and combines them immediately, usually before entering a turbo. Not the same thing because one does not combine all of the exhaust while the other one does.
What catback on the red hatch?
so im confused, whats better for performence? uel or el? also i heard that on the brz you need an uel to fix the torque dip at high rpms. is that true and will it be even better with el?
going for a uel helps with low end torque which somewhat helps with the torque dip, but you'll lose out on the top end
Dont forget there are some really good uel headers that make way better low down torque than EL headers I'm in uk and there are people running nearly 700whp with uel headers and no problems in decreased engine performance
yup correct, the main reason why people go EL is probably to install a twin scroll setup or go for max power
Which company in the UK makes the best UEL headers?
How do they run 700 horses with UEL (is it n/a)? Fully built engine or something?
People say equal is the way, but in reality with flat plane engines where you have cylinders firing in pairs the ideal is to have a slightly unequal header so for example the gases from 1-4 don't collide in the pipe at the same time but instead make one tightly follow the previous one and create maximum flow, so instead of having 2 explosions fighting with each other which one will pass the pipe first at the same time and be depended on the vacuum of the previous pair's gases ending up creating back pressure, you get 4 guys following as 1-4-2-3 chest to back.
With equal 4-2-1 headers the thing is a little better as it is due to the usually bigger size of pipe merging into one but still i'd rather have maxinum theoretical flow and rumbly sound.
With unequal headers you can gain more than you lose, you only lose if the gas travel is unecessary long and not because it's unequal.
new sub!
Unequal length headers mean the exhaust is not scavenging properly which reduces efficiency and is what creates that “rumble” you describe. It doesn’t hurt the engine, but it does make things somewhat less efficient, so you are leaving some potential power untapped.
But at what cost
Worth it
Great sound clips brother. So does my base model WRX/ STI have equal length or unequal length headers?
you should have unequal length headers unless if you got the 15+ wrx, which has equal length headers
@JC Media Oh so the 2020 STI comes with unequal length headers?
yup, as far as I'm aware
@@JCMediaYT Thanks brother. 😊
Yeah I’m definitely gonna get some custom UEL headers for my 2015 lifted Scion xB, with dual exhaust. 🤤🤤🤤🤤 I’ve seen on Toyota altis/corolla and it sounds beautiful
just looked them up, absolutely agree man, goodluck with the headers
that Perrin EL sounded great. i just hate when it has no throat or deep sound.
What would it sound like if you put unequal length headers with the Nissan VR30DDTT engine? Would it sound more like an Alfa Quadrifoglion V6TT?
yeah, it will have a deeper note like the Alfa V6TT or the Ecoboost V6 engines. Going for equal length will make it more high pitched like a VQ
@@JCMediaYT I would love that! Plus if you could share me a way to increase the redline from 7k to 8k I think that would make my Z sound perfect :)
@@cosmic_gate476 do you have a piggyback/standalone ecu? or are you on a remapped stock ecu
I have EJ204 NA engine on SG Facelift Forester streetcar . For NA engine which header is better for performance / fuel efficiency ? EL stock header or UEL header ?
you'll definitely get better performance and also better heat management with EL headers. The benefit of UEL headers is mainly just the rumble (which some people I know don't like anyways lol)
*Is there any benefits to using UEL besides the rumble sound?*
tbh, not really all that much
UEL is known to effect longevity on the EJ with heat on cylinder#4
Thanks for the information overlay on Evan Shanks' videos. The rest were just noise to me. 🙂
anytime 😂
Would you say it’s smarter to not run the wrap on the headers
i would say the cons of header wrap are quite minimal in comparison to the benefits so i would rather get header wrap on mine, especially since the headers on EJ engines go around the oil pan, filter and spread a lot of heat into the engine bay
hey is it better for me to get a equal or unequal? in terms of performance i got a impreza 2001 NA with a cat back exhaust from xforce
hmmm, personally I'd get the unequal since the NA probably won't benefit much from equal length headers, and it'll sound like a usual 4 banger. the uel makes it sound a lot nicer. I also still have the tomei uel on my sti lol, just can't stand the equal length sound
I finished the video and unless the car is at a low rpm/ idle you can't really notice the rumble.
yeah, the difference is much more noticeable at low rpms
As someone with a tiny bit of subir experience, when you just rev it the rumble doesn't really come through, when driving hard and under load is when it really shows up
I like the equal length sound
The sound difference between the equal length and unequal length is not that big
I rather gain power than noise and heat issues
@@mohamedyasinarakkal5130 -- It certainly doesn't sound like much on these videos, but in real life it's quite dramatic. Cell phone mics don't really have the frequency response or bandwidth to capture it. There's a reason that video game developers who want to capture a specific car's unique sound hire specialists who use several different mics of different types all at once. That having been said, the difference between them does decrease a bit at high RPMs and WOT.
@@mohamedyasinarakkal5130 makes a big difference to me, way less rumbly, sound way better with equal length
@@JohnnyWishbone85 yeah dude, in person way different. Glad I saw this comment.
At some points in his life, a man has to choose between efficiency and style, there is no right or wrong, just what you empathise more.
very well said!
Subscibed!!!
Much appreciated!
Is this true for exhaust manifolds for turbos too
its true for both NA and turbo
Biggest example: listen to a dsm with the cast iron manifolds then one with tubular el
Do that make unequal length headers for the 03 2.5 legacy outback na ?
yup, they most likely should be available for the NA subie's too.
@@JCMediaYT thanks in honna havr to do some digging around
I like the UEL Sound but I will but EL. Because of the Performance benefits.
nice!
I’m starting to grow on the way equal-length headers sound on a Subaru Flat-4.
same here man, thinking of switching over haha
Should it work on a 4 cylinder camaro ?
theoretically yeah, but you'll probably have to custom fabricate one
I can hear on unequal a gargle sound / were a equal is smooth and free flowing sound
Is UEL headers bad for a stock non turbo car?
non turbo subarus with the EJ engine come with UEL headers and no, they shouldn't do any damage, just maybe slightly less performance
@@JCMediaYT I don’t own a subie
My car is a 1.5L ford fiesta N/A
Is UEL Headers bad for my engine?
@@erlhendrichcaoile1463 hmm... it shouldn't do any damage but it might throw a check engine light or slightly decrease engine performance but not by a noticeable amount
That civic sounds like a subie!
yup, all because of the unequal length headers
Not really done much research into any of this, but how would this work (if it works at all) with different engines? (I3-I5-I6)
I don't exactly know either, I'm guessing it would have a similar effect where the sound has more of a rumble/rougher sound. One example is the twin turbo I6 S55 engine where the length of the front and rear downpipe is about a foot and a half apart, this is why the sound of the F series M3 and M4 sounds more like two inline 3's since 3 cylinders go into one turbo. Try search up "S55 Equal Length Midpipe" and listen how different they sound.
@@JCMediaYT yeah I found that out, and it’s pretty cool. thanks.
@@JCMediaYT wow! I saw something similer (ish) done in an E36 or an E46, but not like that, that’s pretty awesome.
@@isaacsrandomvideos667 ah I've just checked the e36/e46 ones, that's pretty cool
@@isaacsrandomvideos667 yea of course man, no problem! have a good day
Is UEL headers bad for the engine overtime?
nope not necessarily. while it may hold you back when going for high power, reliability is no issue as long as you have a proper tune
@@JCMediaYT I have a none turbo GTS 86, is it expensive go get it tuned with UEL headers?
@@JCMediaYT one more question, What is the different between a high end UEL like TOMEI brand compare to fairly decent brand which cost half the price? Is there a sound different or just the quality
Thanks bro
I’m torn.. My 03 Bugeye is ready for a clutch due to a failed slave cylinder, as the piston was binding in the bore, causing half engagement.
It takes 45 minutes to yank the engine, Vs 2-3 hours on my back to pull the trans.
So decisions on Headers… My concern with my decision is Heat on the right bank.. I have a buddy that works at the dealer, and he said bore wear on the right rear cylinder is always more than the rest due to heat.
Yup that's correct, the 4th cylinder is always the one most prone to damage from heat. An equal length header will definitely help keeping the temps down, but installing heat wrap would also help if you want to keep unequal length headers. Additionally, you can also get a "4th cylinder cooling mod" from GDT or Torque Solutions to further help with cooling. I'm running the Torque Solutions one with a Tomei unequal length that is also heat wrapped.
Personally I really like the Subie rumble so I want to try keep it while also improving reliability lol. Hope that helps!
David Vizard says equal length headers are not optimized since every cylinder should be tuned appropriately.
Actually, unequal length headers may have a "Scavenging" effect, which may help efficiency
Does anyone remember Mesa headers they were unequal length tuned headers utilizing three maybe four different primary tube diameters. The original owner of Mesa headers is an old friend of mine I'm trying to find haven't seen him in years his name is Mike. If anyone who reads this knows him please leave a reply here for me I would really appreciate it thanks
Idk what i want to do just yet. Car is tuned now im deciding what set of headers i want. I do want the power of EL but i dont want to lose the rumble
Are you on the stock turbo or is it an aftermarket? I'd recommend you take a look at the Grimmspeed headers, they have a mix of the higher equal length pitch, and the classic boxer rumble.
@@JCMediaYT yeah it's stock. Just replaced the turbo about a month ago. Got a tune already so it's mod ready
If you want some rumble and power increase skip gs and pick up the ets header.
kalau di indo bikin dmn lh tu mas? equal atau unequal ? pasti pesen di luar ya?
kalo Tomei sih punya nya Jepang, tapi pasti ada bengkel di Indo yang harusnya bisa replicate unequal length design nya, cuma aku kurang tau sih bengkel mana yang bisa...
iyaaa si kalau tomei gk di ragukan lg, kalau brg2 subaru biasa mas cari di mna? btw makasih mas infonya dan sukses selalu yaaa buat conten nya 🙏👍
The german word is "Krümmer" which translates to "bend" or "bending" or "manifold". So I wonder where the word header comes from?
ZACH JOBE AT 0:42 !
Today I learned that it's not boxer engines that I dislike, it's unequal exhausts. You have a new subscriber 😁
Thanks and welcome!
Somehow i wonder if a header per cilinder output is possible. Essentially creating one exhaust per cilinder. I would like to know how that would sound like. Just food for thought. 🤔
that's an interesting idea... 😶
You didn't specify that even length helps inline engine, but not v. Scavenging is a myth in equal length v8s.
EL if you wanna sound like a Honda Civic prowling the streets at 3 AM with a loud exhaust. UEL if you wanna sound like a more fortified racecar
Literally the only con with equal length headers is the losing the rumble other than that it's better in everyway
i want unequal in my vr6 engine. i wonder what the heck that would sound like, idk if anyone did it yet..
theoretically it should have a deeper tone, would be interesting to see what that sounds like...
equal sounds better to me. Less dramatic, I know, but smoother.
mantap gan, lebih suka uel
3:11 remind me of anime drifting car name ae86 same sound tracks once it get up to 9k rpm it sound like fujitsobo lol
i really like sound of rs legacy unequal on my ranger (it have longer rod and sound to it may be off because of it fire so slow)
initial d?
@@JCMediaYT yes that
Unequal length or bust. What's the point of dealing with the massive pitfalls of Subaru ownership if you miss out on the best part?
Solution: unequal length headers but dual exhaust so that pulses from the right bank do not have to mix (and collide) with the left.
cries in Turbo.
That civic sounds like a lot like Subaru👀
yupp, shows how most of the boxer rumble is caused by the unequal manifold lengths
Unequal length gives you more power over a wider power band, equal length give you peek power in a very narrow power band. Typically road cars want unequal length and drag cars want equal length.
My 99 Grand Prix with the 3.8 V6 has unequal length headers factory due to it sitting transversal. But it sounds so bad and raspy. Literally sounds like wet farts
What about v8s? I heard flatplane v8s with uel header sounds like a classic v8 sound not a subie
do you have any clips of flatplane v8's? never heard of them myself. could be due to the header design and the firing order but i have no idea either.
Modern mustangs
Dude there’s twice as many cylinders. And the unequal length on a v8 has every cylinder a different length from front to back
@@JCMediaYT The GT350. Flatplane crank V8 with unequal length headers
There are flat plane v8s which create their own natural sound. Then there is cross plane, we all know that sounds. Then you can put a 180 degree header on a cross plane and get more of a flat plane sound. X pipe vs h pipe noticeable different between those two sounds too
Lucky for me I'm located not too far from the "best" subie tuner in the states
prime motoring?
JR Tuned
@@SkaterOrnez ahh yeah I've heard he's one of the best out there... too bad I'm not in the states haha
@@JCMediaYT ahh snap, send your car over. It would cost around $1,350 to get a pro tune from him 😭
@@SkaterOrnez ah thats not bad at all, my car is all the way over in Indonesia though haha. if I do move to the states for uni I will definitely try them out
Unequal all the way! Equal wrecks the sound.
Twin scrolls are not good for hill climb attacks with equal lengths headers. Single scroll are alot better. Listen to Flatiron tuning. They explain it better.
Reached the 1:35 time stamp. I jizzed my pants. Oops🤭🤭🤭
All subarus sound exactly the same so what's the difference
nah not really
@@JCMediaYT lmao listen to your own video😂
@@ericwieboldt7042 yeah? they literally sound different with equal length headers vs unequal length headers. I have no idea what you're on about. The JDM STi's come with ELHs from the factory, and the new FA platform only comes with ELH.
@@JCMediaYT anyone that uses the word literally out of context is not to be taken seriously. Better luck next time though. They all sound the same, like, literally👎
@@ericwieboldt7042 lmaoooo get your ears checked man, you must be on some shit to say they all sound the same considering no one else is saying that 😂 Oh well thanks for the views though!
Your V1 detects laser buddy
what?
Why don't SUBARU owners convert to "Equal Lenghth Headers" as they could gain better MPGs...
2:58
Unequal sounds better
Why
I think I speak for everyone here... Unequal is what we want🤣
Unequal length headers make your Subaru sound like a riced up Honda Civic with a dead misfire on one cylinder. Apparently some people like that sound.
That fucking civic sounds like a Suby lol
Equal length with EWG sounds best from an Ej.
I am heavily considering switching my Tomei UEL for an EL header lately
One sounds better the other performs better
pretty much yeah
the civic sounds more like a subaru than my subaru
same :(
All Suby's must have UEL. Subaru = Rumble
My brz is so underpowered already. I wouldn’t put equal lengths on it anyway
the solution is forced induction hahaha, they're great fun to drive though
I think I just Kame
that civic sound so cursed frroam a subaru guy
Funniest thing, is in n/a engines, especially prone to exhaust changes. You lose 2bhp on header, and get 2,5hp on pipe and muffler xd
So the POWER is really crazy xd
I guess for 4 poppers that want to sound like the big boy V-8s there is always the option of intentionally unbalanced exhaust. For this that truly care about power it’s all about equal exhaust pulse spacing.
all down to preference hehe. boxer engines with equal length headers scream like crazy though
Don’t forget sound can also be shaped by having real cars with real engines…
I poor 😢