Fallout Creator Explains Why Modern Games Suck
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- čas přidán 4. 11. 2023
- Part 2. Timothy Cain, the creator of Fallout (1997), explains the problem with modern video games and video game journalism
by @CainOnGames • Game Development Cauti...
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I have a friend who worked retail and he would have a 50-100% more work efficiency than everyone else on the floor during his shifts. However, they were all paid the same wage. He said to me he decided to do what everyone else was doing and decided to min/max and be as lazy as the others working during his shift. Management noticed this and instead of praising him for his work ethic they gave him a write up for underperforming instead of actually writing up the others who were always underperforming. Yeah he quit his job after that and said it was the best decision he made in his life.
Sounds like Costco lmao
wow, this was so interesting to read lol, thanks for sharing.
and cute pfp
People only notice things when it's abnormal, even in something as simple as say a friend who goes for a jog every single morning, but today he didn't. Only then is when people start asking why.
Deciding to do what other people do because you don't think it's fair is a bulshit way to do stuff. It's like a child throwing a tantrum. You should care about your own personal work ethic and then you keep trying to move up in the company. If this person was doing that much but wasn't moving up then I call bulshit. That's their view of what was happening.
Been in retail for 12 months, started as a fullfilment curbside pick up at 12.35 hr, 3 months later Team lead, then to delivery coordinator, now Department Supervisor. If you don't try to move up and let those intentions known, you will get used and abused.
@@Passypass4have fun you’ll be used and spit out and do it again at another place. I work what I’m paid for. Have some self respect
The problem is that at most jobs, if you're good at your job, your only reward is being given more work.
this is why i love doing freelance work. you take on jobs you actually want to do, and are free to reject the ones that you think are not worth it. money doesn't move you, and they can't demand you to put in more work unless they pay you well enough to take care of their shit AND respect the work that you do. you do have to take care of a lot of business negotiations and other bullshit processes yourself, but the freedom you gain from that is great.
if you're working independently and for yourself, and you're good at your job, your reward is not just monetary but also a sense of satisfaction in work creativity. you also get more customers, because people tend to notice the quality of what they're paying for, and words tend to spread; but really "more work" is actually just an excuse for you to have fun playing and showing off your skills in this case. most people working regular jobs do it for a business, but the opposite can also be true. i hate business, but i'll do it if it means i can do more of the work that i enjoy.
I asked for a raise at my job last December, HR came back to me this week to tell me it had been approved but I was gonna have to work more hours. Did a bit of math and realised they didn't actually raise me, they just make me work more.. Needless to say, 100% agree with this
I dont know man, I've been working online for an IT company based in the UK and I stay in South Africa. I have been working for the company for about almost 4 years now. I have effectively outworked everyone in my department by logging on early and getting a lot of my work done. I do things faster and more efficient and my salary has moved up by 65%. When they gave me more work I said what? is that it? give me more!!!!
My salary has now grown the most out of all the salaries in pretty much all departments...
Now I'm sitting with a well-paying job and not a lot of stress and I don't have to worry about monthly travel expenses.
Today's bonus is tomorrow's requirement
Elevate and promote people until they hit their threshold.
5:20 There's a very closely related idea called Goodhart's law; A metric for measuring performance stops being reliable once it becomes a metric, specifically because people end up trying to game the system
similar issue at our work, we are basically judged on 3 metrics, and that means every other part of our job is taking a hit. production is primary, so stuff like quality takes a hit because people focus/burns their energy on keeping things running instead.
Similar issue in science. So much scientific fraud because of gameifying the system. To be fair scientists are pressured into it by the institutes, universities, publishers and pharmas that abuse them.
workers are treated as disposable, they know it, they feel it, then the people who treat them as disposable non people come and try to encourage them to give more in then they get out, and management is confused.
metric whoring is the big reason why customer service nowadays works the way it does, more than the language barrier
Is that the same thing as cobra effect
lemme tell you the story of when i went to a college full of game devs.
i used to be in a college specifically made for people who were going into the industry of gaming, animation, and music. I had to do community service (i did something illegal and i was being punished) so the Dean made me work in the college Food Drive by stocking the donated canned goods in the storage. According to the Dean, "the workers at the drive have been trying to stock these for several months now and still havent finished. I dont expect you to finish it either, but this should keep you busy by the end of your quota". While stocking the food, i overhear the Food Drive workers saying theyre all gonna head out to get boba tea while one stayed behind to watch over me and was just watching youtube the whole time.
I finish stocking all the boxes of food in about half an hour and i go, "ok so wheres the rest of the boxes?"
"what the hell, youre done?"
"yeah is that it?"
"omg that was hella fast. yeah thats all the boxes"
This was just 3 boxes of cans and packaged goods. a dozen lazy twats took several months to fail at stocking 3 boxes of canned goods and told the dean they didnt have enough manpower. So i just watched youtube with her for the rest of the service until the secuirty guard came to check up on me. sees me doing nothing and i explained that they had nothing else for me to do. So he writes me as finishing my quota for the week and the Dean ends up chewing out the Drive when he found out they have been fking around this whole time.
> when he found out they have been fking around this whole time.
This was their mistake. Allowing to to blow their cover. What sort of idiot doesn't stop to wonder how 3 boxes of cans hasn't been stacked in months?
Game dev avoid physical labour any% speedrun
I really shouldn't be surprised. But I still am. Shocked even.
I've seen this same mentality but as a kid, i used to do very well when i was 5 to 8 years old so i got my mom called out by the teacher many times because i was "doing nothing at class" even though i had good grades on tests and it was the perfect counterplay because even the teacher suspected i was cheating and handed me a test that he made for me to do in front of my mother, did it in 5 min so for the next years i had him as teacher never tried to bother me again until my grades dropped, luckily he wasn't my teacher anymore.
People are lazy, and game devs are people. Also they think they are kinda unique snowflakes and the boss needs them. When in fact it's them who need a job and they are easily replaceable.
I feel like it’s bigger then just the gaming industry. I feel like the job industry itself is suffering.
the amount of job scams out there right now is staggering, you almost have to go with a known corporation get in through some other means. Online applications are dead.
Weve been trying to keep cooks.
After hurricane michael decimated us and the corona we have no workers.
6 years and all we get is crazy people, young people, homeless people, all sorts of trash.
In the last 6 years ive only met one guy who could hang with us.
Noone is filling out applications. Im down a dishwasher and two line cooks. Season just ended so were praying for help
Yeah I've been thinking it's partially a workplace issue, different places have different problems though. Like with how everyone hates retail work because it's only one step away from slavery and it's soul crushing.
However here I think it's because people leave school and then treat game development the same way as they did in the classroom. That's probably why nobody asked questions, because in school you're told what to do and you better shut up and do it. This is how they were trained. That's exactly how I was taught IT and I became a coffee addict trying to stay awake in classes..
@@richardgesegnet5481sucks because im sure you arent making the profits, but you probably have to pay more. Idk what you're paying, but if those are the people you are attracting you gotta know that you arent paying enough.
@@richardgesegnet5481Yeah kitchen jobs are notoriously garbage. You should stop complaining about people not "being able to hang with you" and either hire more people, or make your kitchen more appealing to work in. While you complain about "drug addicts" getting jobs there the guy who owns the place is making all the profit. Wake up.
The reason why that this exists, is if someone is really good at their job and they excel, their boss will exploit that if they can and over work their worker for no increased pay. I've personally learned to give long timelines to complete projects, because if I didn't, I would be overworked for no increase pay and it only hurts me in the long run. No one wants to accurately pay a good working employee anymore. They will use you and toss you away when you are no longer needed. It's something that i've learned over time, and why giving a timeline of 2 weeks when it can be done in hours or less happens. It is what it is. I'm not working more for the same pay, so i'll work less for the same pay.
Yes it’s a constant battle between worker and employer. One wants the most work out of the smallest pay and one wants to work the least amount for the highest pay
@@specialedclass2982One of the many contradictions of capitalism.
@@FeiFongWang Yeah, I miss when feudalism had us all working together in harmony.
@@ReturnOfHeresy Did I say feudalism was the best?
@@FeiFongWang Obviously not but it was a joke because you didn't provide an alternative system to solve the problem.
He's essentially describing wanting employees to have personal ownership and interest in the product/task, as well as a feeling of responsibility on the outcome on the product/task. Unfortunately, that's going to be a minority intangible across many (if not all) industries.
He comes from a time where you and your buddies started your own game company and pushed out Fallout 1 and 2 or Baldurs Gate 1 and 2 etc. Of course in those situations, the employees would be invested in the product. It's a passion project.
And that's really the main issue. Most games these days are not passion projects, they're profit makers.
This is why indie devs are still good.
Well to be fair, at least in construction, there is no real incentive to care about what we are doing because at any time for any reason they can fire you and replace you the next day, and some places remind you of this daily.
This doesn't mean that we won't do our best, it just means we have no stake in a company that will throw you in the trash the second you become a problem for them.
I don't think it's entirely ownership. I think it's mostly the lack of creative freedom. There is no, "Do what you love and get paid for it." in being employees anymore. Because punishment is the major incentive rather than wealth or entertainment. If work was as fun as playing the games we play, we would do it for very little pay.
Not defending these lazy sounding employees BUT if you want employees to have ownership corporations can’t treat people like commodities. It’s changing slowly.
It works sometimes in smaller companies where the bosses are personally involved with all the staff they employ, but the second you expand to proper corporate size, it becomes impossible for the higher ups to truly know how much any of their employees really give a crap, which leads to those who do give a crap soon realizing that they aren't being rewarded for it.
My favorite boss of all time told me he strived to be a leader, not a boss. You ask a question, he would educate you in the best way and make you feel good about yourself after. If you messed up, you felt like you let him down and you just want to be better so we can all be happy. He was also always in the trenches with his coworkers. Once he left, turn overs were happening all the time and work ethic tanked.
Asmon is the kinda guy who devises a 125-step plan to avoid having to answer the door for his pizza delivery guy.
Are you even a gamer if you don't do this?
Same tbh
what if it turns out to be hot sexy unmarried woman instead?
@@nightmarerex2035 No real gamer needs that complexity in their life.
thats called anxiety lol
The uncomfortable feeling of being similar to Asmon.
- when I stopped caring about my job, 'cuz the boss was plain inefficient and outright incompetent, I started replying with "detailed optimism". AKA expressing a strong desire to start on a task right away, by asking for details you know a specific person has and won't give you in a timeline fashion, typically the person asking you to do the task.
"That's a great idea! I'm on it! I will need the client list you had worked on. Can you send that over?"
(always show seemingly genuine enthusiasm, and ask for resources that you know he doesn't have, but in a way that gives the impression that you think he's completed the work. The trick being: you establish that the person was competent enough to have done XYZ, and him admitting he has not completed that would break that high esteem you have established, so silence and forgetfulness becomes the original asker's defacto state)
Problem with that is if the person not giving you the info is the same in charge of the new project, then if the project isn't delivered within schedule you will still be the scapegoat.
@@atraxian5881, hence why the other thing is:
- dont work on project-based craps, hehe. Find steady employment where your main responsibility is applying a steady skillset to steady situations. Then apply the technique I mentioned to all project-based tasks.
His complaints about the 'it's just a job' attitude in game development overlooks the fact that a significant percentage of those people will be laid off as soon as the game makes initial release. The are not invested career wise in the company except for padding their resume for the next job which may or may not come before the game they are working on is released.
So, the solution is, don’t lay off workers that easily…?
@@dotaparkthat’s a solution that probably has to start at the c suite level and those are not the people that care about what this guy is saying.
If your job is to make a good building, then who cares if you are invested in the company? You should still try to make a good building.
Your logic is "well I don't like the company so I will work worse and expect to be paid the same and not fired". With that attitude no wonder things are worse, you have people doing the bare minimum while expecting to be paid the same as the guy doing the actual work.
@@TemperansBut it isn't. You're being paid to turn up, and move bricks from point A to point B. If point B blocks a truck that needs to come in and pour concrete, that's not your problem, you're paid to move bricks. And the longer this jobs site takes to complete, the longer you will be getting paid, because the company you're contracted with doesn't have any more upcoming work.
@@Tucarius Yeah that's the type of thinking that leads to issues. You are thinking "let me do the minimum to make this last longer". That causes delays, which means the price rises. The people who had to pay for that now have to pay more, and so they must find ways to get that money, so they cut costs elsewhere. Etc. If everyone had that mentality absolutely nothing would ever get done because everyone would be tripping over everyone else's foot. Then they have the gulls to complain about getting fired when the company is going bankrupt.
If you instead do the work well on the firsr try, you have time to do other stuff. The people get the stuff on time, so they can spend their money on other stuff. Everyone profits.
* P.S. The mentality you mentioned is even worse when considering government work. All the money you get taxed wasted because people decided that they want to be lazy and/or not do their work properly.
i worked at this company and i always tried to improve my workrate if it didnt impact my quality of work and all my co-workers were asking why i put so much effort into my job. all i could think of was that they were idiots and they didnt like their jobs. until i worked there for 3-4 months and realised nothing was being said about me doing my best, litterally nothing. i even made a suggestion that got put into motion on how to improve workflow on the floor and everyone seemed to like it but i didnt get a reward or anything. after that i didnt try my best anymore and just did the bare minimum until i eventually got bored of the job and quit about 7-8 months working there.
same. it just doesnt make any sense to me. '
you work bad and slow - nothing happens
you work good and fast - nothing happens
.... whats the point ?
In a big machine with a lot of parts, you don't want a new cogwhile that goes 10% faster than the others, or that is made from a better material and will handle pressure better than the other. You want a cogwheel that matches the others and does the job as the others.
This tends to apply to most companies from what I've seen (software dev). Big important decisions come from the top, and most of them are made based on investor or customer benefits, so largely regular worker work and feedback is ignored as long as the things keep on progressing as expected.
Fun story: I used to work as a dev as a company that events, congresses, etc, until the end of 2019, and about 1 or 2 years or so before the pandemic I talked with our department director, and for whatever reason he asked about what could we do as a company to improve from the tech side of things, be it more revenue, more customers, etc. One of the things that came to my mind was going bigger online, meaning online courses/workshops for the congresses, streaming the events, kinda like PPV. He ignored all my ideas and all the feedback I brought back to him.
Fast forward 2 years later, pandemic hits, all events and congresses stop because nobody can't travel. The company ended up closing short after.
This is called Quiet Quitting, when you're at the point where you only do the minimum and then go home. Good on you!
The problem is and I'm sure most people in every field can attest to this, is this. People are not adequately rewarded for going above and beyond. If you work at 110% while everyone does the bare minimum to not get fired and then you realize you are getting paid the same and not getting promoted fast enough to work this much harder than everyone else, and you drop your level to theirs you will often get criticized because you set a standard and fell below the expectation. But the inverse is not true, others are not expected to rise to your level, it's a shame and I realized this in the military as well, it's exactly the same. In the navy you have a bunch of other collateral duties, which equates to more work to do that ISN'T your job. and being promoted often more heavily relied on how well you did the extra bs jobs that wasn't your job. So if you were a kick ass mechanic for example but didn't really care about advertising the business you wouldn't get the promotion over someone else who is also a mechanic like you, but they suck at it and don't care about improving but man did they promote the business well. It's dumb and most fields work in a capacity that does not reward working above the minimum.
The issue here is twofold: first, when comparing the two employees, one brings immediate, observable business to the company in advertising by bringing in more paying customers, whereas the other provides value in a more subtle way that isn't observable without looking at performance or error rates. Yes, the good mechanic is also providing value, arguably more value than the good advertiser depending on just how bad of a mechanic he is, but it's less noticeable at surface level, and will draw less attention unless specifically brought up.
Second, step into the shoes of the business owner. Say you're aware of the difference in ability between the two mechanics, but the open manager position doesn't require the employee to perform any mechanic duties. Who will you hire to fill that position, the good mechanic who you will then essentially lose the services of, or the poor mechanic who does tangential tasks that drive business (like advertising) better? In a perfect world, merit would be rewarded proportionally and the good mechanic would perhaps get a raise even though the poor mechanic got the promotion, so everyone would be happy. But in this scenario, the good mechanic is better off opening up his own shop and making more money than in either of the other scenarios :)
Omg thank you for using the military as an example. So many fresh soldiers come from basic training and they put a lot of effort in at work, once they realize that everyone else isn’t at the same standard as them and they aren’t getting any credit for it overtime they just lower the amount of work they do cause of it. I did the exact same thing, no incentive to put a lot of work in when everyone else is going to their car during work to sleep and in the office on their phones all day and don’t get in trouble. Favoritism also plays a factor. Then you realize you don’t get promoted for the work you put in while in the army, you get promoted based on how fast you run your two mile or how many pushups and sit ups you do. Nobody cares if you go above and beyond cause they will either not notice or actually joke on you about it. Also you get misused, when they notice you put a lot of work and effort in the first person they are gonna choose for more work is you cause they know you’ll actually do the job right, not the person who is taking a 2 hour lunch or going to the car during work hours to chill. They don’t punish the people that should be punish they just punish the ones that shouldn’t be
I will summarize it in two words - “bad management”
@@amarok180alright, now step into the shoes of the good mechanic. You now know for an undeniable fact that you will never be promoted so long as you work in that shop. Now you leave for a place where you have a chance at promotion, or you don't give a rip about work because you're demoralized. So now the boss has lost that good, productive mechanic anyway - either because he left, or because his morale is destroyed. And trust me when I say this, no mechanic has 500,000 dollars lying around to just start their own shop. I know from first hand experience. It ain't as easy as 'lol I work for myself now.' If it were, then I would be.
This is 100% true and the primary reason I did not reenlist after doing my secure aircraft mechanic job for 7 years.
I still remember what my SSG told me in 2005. The more overly complicated you make a process the more likely people will find a way around it. The key is to find the least amount of work needed to reach the desired outcome and often times that requires less complexity.
The acronym 'Keep It Simple Stupid' was my mantra
11B
"They're not fixing the problem, they're making it not visible anymore"
I say that a LOT about people who just block/deplatform people for "being problematic."
It's like if there was a snake loose in the house and you made it invisible and silent. You didn't fix the problem you just made it invisible.
The root of every problem in video game development is money.
Back in the 80's and 90's, video games were made almost exclusively by people who wanted to play them. These people would go to work, spent 8 hours making a game, work another 1 or 2 hours, often unpaid, because they were that excited by what they were doing, then go home, eat a ham sandwich because that's all they could afford, then spend the next 8 hours playing video games. They'd get too little sleep, get up, and go back to work making video games again, and they were HAPPY about this.
Then, somewhere along the way, the money people got involved. Publishers, who were largely home video publishers who published video games as a side business, started to see how much money they could make. They influenced the leaders of some of the studios - not all, people like Carmack and Cain didn't care, but many - and money crept into the studios as an influence. Decisions that had always been made based on "would we like to play this ourselves?" were now based on "how many dollars of residual revenue will this make us?"
The second half of this was when community colleges started reeling in people who had absolutely zero interest in either playing or making video games, promising them riches earned at a desk in an air conditioned office. These people started filling up little campuses across the country around 2002, and what do ya know, 3-4 years later, games started being really sh*tty. It wasn't a coincidence. Instead of games being made by gamers, now they're being made by single mothers and wannabe actors who come home after 8 hours of game development - and you bet your ass not a single millisecond of overtime - and spend their off hours doing ANYTHING IN THE WORLD but playing video games because after a day of making them, they can't stand to look at them. These people have ZERO passion for game development. It's just something that pays their bills.
Money killed video games from both ends. There's a reason why the indies are where a lot of the best stuff comes from. They're the few who do this because they love it, not because it pays well.
This is laughably reductive and inaccurate. Money has always been in the gaming industry. People wouldnt have been playing pac man in arcades or super mario bros on their NES if it werent for big companies funding development and production.
The idea that gaming was this peaceful, anti-capitalist nerd utopia where magical tech wizards created games in their basements and gave them away for free until businesses came along and ruined everything in the 2000s is just not the reality. There is a healthy balance between creativity and business, and they can form a very strong symbiotic relationship.
"It may break other stuff in the game." says the people that clearly don't code games. There are these strange dimensions called "test cells" where you can test a prototype and see how it jibes with other features. That's the point. To see if they DO break something, and if they do, then you dump it or change it. You don't know until you test it. Sometimes a new function improves previous features, or gives you a EUREKA moment where you know how to add something else better. Timothy Cain is 100% right about this. When people refuse to do something out of this kind of fear, you never take a risk that can have potentially favorable payouts. Half of the mechanics I've made for my personal projects were the results of accidents by trying to use two different designs together. And no. It's not a big risk, as they were tested in isolated constructs. The most I lose is some time, and the better a programmer you are, the faster you are.
Shigeru Miyamoto, the unrivaled game designer of all time, is known for constantly trying to add new ideas to the games he works on, and constantly throw bad ideas away (or shelve them away for a future game). Terrible for meeting deadlines, but the essential formula for creating the most memorable games ever.
Its weird given my job is in the art field and we're taught to not be afraid to fail. Fail first, succeed second. Like the idea of 'prototyping' seems like it would be the Norm.. Especially with the concerns over games being buggy on launch. Wtf. So you're telling me, you think the car's airbag will work.. but you never tested it and are waiting for the first actual application for a customer to experience.
ffs I don't understand how Asmon understands how these people think because frankly, they are idiots.. but they're the ones with millions.
I agree with this philosophy but I think losing time is a massive deal in a Triple a space. I mean have you seen the deadlines for recent games like Pokémon Scarlet/Violet.
@@dkosmari "unrivaled game designer of all time"💀
I agree with you in theory. It's a bit more complicated on 100-200 people projects where your “test cells” only contain so many variables, and you are threatened with firing if you break the build a certain number of times (Activision).
It was easier to feel a sense of personal ownership of your work 30 years ago when executives made something like 10x their workers. It's harder for employees to feel that these days when executives make 300x times what they do, and always resort to layoffs rather than executive paycuts whenever something goes wrong. Duty, commitment, and loyalty are all two-way streets!
how so? you can also see it as an oportunity, if u perform properly and get to an executive position, u get 300x
ur argument is the laziest excuse ppl find nowadays, at least own ur own laziness
@@jocampe62 Hate to break it to you, but Executives hire exclusively from the Business class -- people who went to school for "business management", etc. Not game developers with decades of experience within the industry. At best you'll get a Todd Howard whom was a former developer-turned CEO/Owner/Whatever, or a Peter Molyneux. At worst you'll end up with a former EA executive whom thinks charging developers per install is a great business plan for your 3rd-option dev tool company.
What if a boss makes 20x the amount? Where's the line that employees resent CEO pay?
@@jocampe62 lmao that's enough kool-aid for you
@@graysaltine6035 ahah such meme such funny, stay salty buddy
16:00 The thing so far is, he's talking about a systematic issue and Asmon is talking about employee engagement. What he was saying was literally that comments focused too much on the people and not enough on the issue itself, which is on the education & training side. The example of the prototype AI is more that they couldn't envision doing a rushed, unfinished AI even though that was exactly what was needed. It's not the people themselves who became like this on their own, but the entire system that taught them that such a prototype would be inadequate, thus they don't have the flexibility of mind to see things otherwise.
This.
Yeah, people like Asmongold are why Tim made the second video, and he still doesn't get it.
As a therapist, the part about writers writing out their therapy is so true. Many of the conversation I hear in retail between NPCs sounds just like my therapy sessions (and most of the therapy sessions I have sat in on). They think writing out something emotional equates good writing.
Thanks for the insight as a therapist. I believe this is why a lot of movies and shows are so questionable and bad because the writers are not writing the characters, they are writing themselves.
I write out my therapy, but I usually keep stuff that personal to myself and don't share.
The estimates thing is also similar to implementing things like KPIs. A scenario: a developer usually gets their work done roughly on time or ahead of their estimates, but then one time gave an estimate of 3 days, when it legit ends up taking 6 days due to unforeseen complications, and they get chewed out for it. You can be sure that is the last time they will underestimate a piece of work, from then on every estimate is padded by 50% just in case the 5% chance it ends up being much more complicated and it being delayed gets them a black mark.
Additionally, and I don't know what the discipline is like at Tim's company, but 'test' code that's added to software as a crutch, often ends up as production code, due to crunch time or other tasks being re-prioritised. Maybe that developer didn't want poor quality throwaway code added to the codebase because they've been burned in the past.
Obviously this is all devil's advocate. He could have just been a lazy employee for sure, but all we have is one perspective.
Padded by 50%? No, you pad it by 200%. If you think it's going to take a week, you tell your boss it's going to take 3 weeks.
The old strategy is always under promise and over deliver. Let your actions speak for themselves, work hard, but keep your mouth shut as often as possible.
Listening to asmon describe how much of a cockroach he is, is just inspiring. This guy is great.
The roach 🪳 coach? 15:02
satire died long time ago i cant tell anymore when people are serious
@@baklava4854it’s way harder to tell over text I reckon.
@@baklava4854 Just remember…you sat…until you..tired
Sure it's good he recognizes his flaws and terrible life practices and I know no one can change who they are overnight, the real problem is he recognizes his issues yet refuses to change his lifestyle.
I feel like a big problem is people have had previous experiences with bad bosses. where if you ask "why are we doing this?" you will either get fired or lose any possibility of growing within the company. Timothy seem to completely ignore the power imbalance between him and his employees. "they only seem to do what i tell them and they never do random things and stray from the instructions" Ye because they have no idea about how you will react, and will get no reward from you if the response is good. Only the possiblity for negative consequence exist
100% this spot on
He's also forgetting that the exact same tactics he used before might not be effective on a new team, even if they were effective last time. People aren't machines, you need to be able to adapt to work culture and the needs of your employees.
Not all bosses are bad bosses. At game dev studios especially, innovation is encouraged and so when employees don't even try to innovate even though they are encouraged to, that's more what he's talking about
Yeah I was going to say that’s the one thing he’s missing. He’s wanting his employees to problem solve rather than just do a specific task. It’s like okay great, but if I problem solve and it’s not perfect don’t get mad or fire me. Which in his case it seems like he wouldn’t, but they don’t know that.
For example my boss complains all the time that we rely on him too much for certain things. But it’s like:
1. We were never taught how to do it, I guess we’re supposed to read his mind.
2. Personally I’m comfortable with trying to figure things out on my own. But you can’t then proceed to chew me out or breath down my neck when I’m not going fast enough because I’m literally just figuring out how to do it.
3. You can’t have speed, quality, and cheap labor. It’s a triangle and you can only pick 2.
@@padarousou I've seen many a company who say they want innovation, while actively doing things that discourage innovation. If your devs can't feel safe to try something and get it wrong, they're not going to innovate.
If one person is not doing their job, well ok, but if an entire team is this dysfunctional, the dysfunction is a fault of leadership not the employee. Why did this employee need 5 weeks to do this, lack of training? Over-punishing metrics making them want to take their time? Lack of accountability across the field causing hard working employees to get burn out covering the load for weaker ones, or the same issue but instead of weaker employees it's understaffing to stay in budget/bonuses.
Or hr hiring
Blizzard is notorious for underpaying their team. Competent workers know when they are underpaid and do one of two things, they just phone it in or they leave and find better job. @@Ruben25252
Being A small indie dev I take heed to what he has to say. Then again if you want something done well do it yourself. Indie is the future
For years now, the vast majority of really really good games have been indie.
I guess game studios nowadays have had a huge... fallout
Boo
get out, get the f out right now
Leave. Now.
Development... development never changes.
He's just pointing out why indie games are better then most AAA.
Because theres passion behind them
@@Sets. Thats not entirely true, AAA developers do have an insane amount of passion, enough of it for them to endure the stupidity of shareholders in order to get some of their original ideas into the final product. The real difference is that Indie groups do not have to endure shareholders, console executives or a marketing department, therefore whatever they want to try, they have the oportunity, the enviroment and the TIME to do it.
In a way, Indie developers are just the old way in wich AAA studios behaved way back in the day. If you remove the pandering to numbers and statistics that poblate the main industry, you would be surprised on how good games from EA or Ubisoft can actually be when developers are free to implement their ideas.
@PointReflex that's very true considering how it's mostly the shareholders who hold back the devs especially when they want to make something incredible but are forced to change it, you gotta feel bad for them
I think people have a twisted view of what an indie game really is, yes vampire survivor is an indie game, but so is all the other 99% of games that are complete shit that only the maker and their family know about and is for sale at 20$ on steam.
@@zirkereuler5242 Yeah, that's why during the boom of indie development around a decade ago sites like Steam had such an insane amount of bollocks titles that it was nearly impossible to find a proper functional indie game to play. Even to this day you have to realy dig in just to find somethig worthy.
Point is, during the dawn of engines like RPG Maker or Entidad 3D, hundreds upon hundreds of games were made by the comunity and 90% were either incomplete or subpar trash at best.
Then again, those who developed such games did whatever they wanted to do and weren't constricted by any measure of quality control at all, wich is a double edged sword by all means. But the overall point was, at least from my part, that passion exists in both groups, the enviroments in wich such passions are put into use are the definitive factors in the overall quality of the final product.
Doing more work more efficiently leads only to being given more work
I think you might have missed the initial point, the issue is not the guy that told the estimate, it's the process involved in producing that estimate. When I have to estimate development of a feature, I *can't* only estimate development time (the time it takes to write a feature), I have to think about all the bureaucracy around it aswell. For example for every feature I need to produce documentation, tickets, ask for the QA team to test the feature, add automated tests and that particular feature needs to be approved by a number of other on my team and the management.
It's a rabbit hole of useless and time consuming processes.
Whats even more amusing is a project manager asking for an estimate after you have just heard the faintest whisper of a feature request.
I started responding with variants of 'im gonna have to pull it out of my ass so dont blame me when it stinks'
In the programming and game development spectrum the issue he tries to overlook as well is that his "5 minute solution" is a solution for him that saves time, but forces the rest of the programmers to "get with his program", since he coded the foundation then everyone has to work on the foundation he has self declared. And forcing more than half the team to code like a certain programmer does leads to get out of an instructed programming language and method that everyone should follow instead, increasing the chance of mistakes leading to horrible bugs and failures in the script. And in order to get everyone in a program everyone gets by, everyone needs to get notified, also leading that you cannot interrupt the tasks they currently are performing everytime a directive gets a new idea, causing interruptions in the workflow in a more often basis than it should, hence why the estimates tend to sometimes be that long to go past the needed bureacracy to do so.
@@Reialine this is very much a problem of complicated systems (or over-complicated, I have seen a great deal of over-engineering over the years) and where there are many actors at play. "Modern" game development, especially for AA/AAA productions can only be as slow as it is, teams are big and feature pacing must be slow.
Compare it with a small team of 2/3 software devs, a small amount of artists working on an indie title and you get Tim's point. His criticism is true given his history (back in the 90 you had much less money, teams were small and production slimmer) and he still, probably, acts as before the half-billion productions of AAA games today.
Indie studios get away with it because they are small, can change as much as they can during development and there's no board or stakeholders asking for progress on their back.
What I'm sensing is the core issue is employees are no longer getting the sense that they are getting a good deal. They work hard, their life style outside work doesn't improve. The core reason goes all the way back to inflation really. If your money consistently buys less and less and you're not getting paid more and more... what's the point anymore? Business owners and leaders are paid more so inflation is hitting them less hard. Sure, you could be working with the most respectful and understanding people around you and you could be doing the hardest best work... but if your life is getting harder and harder, that doesn't last. And it shouldn't really; we need to stop the inflation practices that are causing this and stop letting our money be managed by corrupt institutions.
I mean these people arent getting paid bad thou. Look up the average pay of these jobs. These guys are rich even if their employers are richer.
This was an issue before inflation and will always be an issue even after inflation. Inflation just makes the issue much worse.
@@attilamarics3374you need to look at the living costs as well tho
This attitude is all over the job market in general. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that real wages have been stagnant since the 70s, and there's a real lack of incentive for people to give a shit. I mean why go above and beyond when people who do half the work you do are paid the same?
Communism in action via the private sector.
@@Navi_xoo Yep, and don't forget about the coming fuckery with automation. The amount of damage that's going to do is going to make today look like the good ol days.
Folks just don’t have any drive to do anything these days. I’ve seen it everywhere I’ve ever worked. People look at me crazy for doing my job.
I am the best at ignoring problems and I can 100% confirmed that many of them will go away, the problem is some of the bigger ones stick.
The subtle art of not giving a fuck. Rarely you say, "fuck it" and do.
As an IT professional and software developer, I can't tell you enough how the majority of people just want to superficially solve the symptoms and not dig into root cause analysis to solve the underlying problem. Dragging it on and on and causing pain for everyone instead of rolling up sleeves to eradicate it once and for all.
He makes a good point, and made a great game, but the company went bankrupt at the end of the day. Hard to get investors on board for a new project when the risks are that high.
Employers want the highest amount of work from the least amount of pay. Employees want the highest amount of pay for the least work. It’s always a battle
and it's always been like that.
@@degenwowI don’t agree. There used to be a thing called work ethic. Or taking pride in your work. For men especially, your work was part of what defined you. That is gone now. Many will say ‘good’ but I dont see that ‘good’ reflected in modern society.
@@edvaedan9161that isn’t “gone now” I know tons of people that have great work ethic. Pay is relatively much less than it used to be though so people don’t feel as invested in their company, especially when you’re working for a video game company that will probably lay you off when the game turns a profit. Stop eating what Fox News tells you and work in better industries that have people that care.
@@edvaedan9161 there also used to be recognition for that work ethic
@@specialedclass2982 if there isn’t, find a better job.
Asmon gave it his best shot, but he just couldn't replicate the guy in the Thumbnail 😅
People can never be the issue. It opens up confrontation immediately and instead of moving forward together, you're stagnated fighting a battle you don't need. By the same measure, to quote the Marines, " You lead people, your manage things." Often things need to be managed better.
Ever heard of you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink? ... Some people don't want to be led.
This is it, in every analysis I see about a failure it is always management, marketing and while it can be the case there is never ever any mention of the employees as a whole. This is a huge red flag. @@JTKing77
Good example... that Add fight at the door in the first Dragonflight raid. I was throwing a lot of rocks. Got yelled at for not doing enough dps. SO i started mutishotting more, my dps was near the roof, and i didn't throw any rocks. We rapidly started getting overwhelmed every pull. And thats when i realized almost nobody was throwing rocks, even though every single one one-shot a mob with like 11million health. People are stupid.
Welcome to the world of KPIs. DPS is easily measurable, CC is not. Guess what people will focus on?
Im convinced that those same people would boot healers if they didnt save their asses from dumb pulls due to "low DPS"
One issue with the 'list of problems, no can do' is that often the problems are realistic, rather than purely figurative. There is something called 'tech debt' when legacy software causes increasing problems with trying to make changes - if the company doesn't deal with this then the 'lazy peon' might actually just be 'peon having to push back the tide while lighting a fire'. The company knows this and they often underfund infrastructure, so it can become ever more difficult to figure out which one the peon is.
The advantage is, regardless of which one the peon is, the root of problems that are given can be managed - so having a 'lazy peon' can actually be an advantage as they will point out what is causing them more work rather than staying silent until everything collaspes.
I worked in game development for a couple of years. During that time, I was helping in the hiring process of a couple of people. The most important thing for me, besides perhaps the main skills we were looking for, was this 'independence' he's talking about. I was mostly doing UI programming, but I was often going to the general gam designers saying 'I disagree with this design here, because this and that. Why aren't er doing this other thing instead?'. Of course it requires a certain environment. But I think I the result will always be much better.
This video is the main reason why games aren't optimized today...because people like this are no longer in the business.
people are taught to just do whatever you are told to do for the entirety of their formative years
is it really a surprise that they keep doing that when they grow older?
I can see his concern about this because his style of development is aging out which is a damn shame
You actually can make people care. You pay them enough, you treat them with kindness and respect, and you attempt to convey why whatever it is you're doing matters... and that burden is on you if you've been there longer and are getting paid more.
Also just to shed some light on this - People who do what they are told normally are one of two kinds.
They either don't care and just want a paycheck - Or they don't want to lose their job so they don't rock the boat.
In video games, there is no sort of personal stake, unlike an industry where personal safety is a concern. So - you have bosses who say 'we are gonna do this' and if you have someone that questions why, some bosses will look at that person and go 'if you don't like it, we will fire you' and then gets them in line.
Lots of places are like this. This isn't unusual. I think the problem is you have nepotism and morons running things, then they get their stupid kids in management, and it gets worse and worse.
Yep
Pretty much spot on for the nepotism, I've seen it first hand where primary management was just a whole family. Some were good and you could rely on them, but the ones on top it was a 50/50 if you could or couldn't, not to mention questionable decisions without planning ahead or understanding potential repercussions of it.
I'm pretty much already dealing with this stuff. I work at a higher level physically and intellectually, but everyone I work with is either complete morons or lazy as all hell. I wish I could leave my current job, but my personal situation is complicated, and I need the money. Thus, I'm trapped with a job that is a literal ticking time bomb with me as the trigger if I leave. I don't want to cause a job to be a revolving door of people quitting, but yikes, it will definitely happen if I leave. I know too much, and I do too much. It's sad when your entire department/work crew is so lazy that you're doing literally 3 or 4 different people's jobs. On the bright side, though, because they're that lazy, my job gives me raises from time to time to compensate for their obscene laziness. Funny enough, they scramble to help me like no tomorrow when regional managers and upper management come by doing inspections. Hahaha!! 😂😂
Sounds about right from my experience
@@gonzalogarcia312 cool diary entry
It almost always ultimately comes down to one thing: money. This of course often means stressed employees, unreasonable goals, less for more pricing (especially since DLC and microtransactions started becoming the norm rather than the exception), rushed development, lack of proper product testing (because why would you spend time and money playtesting if the day 1 players do it for you anyway) and lack of passion products.
So sad to see many industries suffer from this trend.
Not money. Valve have money, do you see them letting ideology drive all their decisions instead of serving people what they want like old school capitalism?
Nintendo haven't yet self immolated via the Panderverse. They have money and love money but still make games that deliver joy to an audience who value feeling joy over being socially engineered. FromSoft make games that serve joy and don't preach. The pander poison still had them do a Type A & B body in Elden Ring however. So we should celebrate those making games without thinking of the soapbox opportunity or monetization model first.
ESG shareholders subverting capitalism are the reason anything developed and published by a Western AAA megacorp will be anti-art and anti-culture from this point.
The issue (that is not exclusive with gaming) is caring. Most of us do not care in the slightless about our jobs. Why? It boils down to 2 reasons:
-1: payment. 95% of time you're getting paid pennies and NO ONE wants to work hard for, essentially, nothing. No matter how good your enviroment is, how good the project is, how good your boss and coworkers are, if you cannot afford the bare minimum, no amount of sugar coat and pizza parties will make you interest in something that is terrible paid (again, most jobs are like that, you have to suck it up)
-2: enviroment. Sometimes you coworkers or your boss are idiots. Tim here sounds fine and articulated and he is calmly telling us that he told the coworker to do something easy but in the real life, with the high stressfull situation maybe it wasn't like that. Maybe he yelled (not maliciously, but still yelled) and demanded that simple thing, and reprimended when the worker said that needed time. And I know this is true because this has happened to me many times: bosses screaming out of their lungs like maniacs and later are like "tehee, I was just stressed
Effort and efficiency is never rewarded accordingly, if ever rewarded at all, that makes people who outperform eventually tone down and face consequences.
A lot of people may see this average performance as 'mediocrity' but in reality there's no reason to do more than the expected, no incentive, no motivation to excel, because the moment you raise your expectations of yourself, it becomes your new 'average performance' and when you back it down you are perceived as lazy.
Acting your wage has been a mindset that pretty much everyone adopted in several parts of the world, and it sucks because there's people who really want to escalate and feel like they're making a change in the world but popping outside the average is just asking for problems.
Being mediocre is how you play the game, and it was never the employees fault that it has come to this.
I worked as a walmart manager for a while andit was fking hard to not do the floor work myself. Or just help someone. I actually got written up by a division manager for working with my employees to teach them efficiency. The higher ups were younger than me,(college age) and they expected me to just fire people who couldnt figure out the fastest production efficiently. It was rough. I could feel their coruption taking over the way I started seeing people. Now whenever I see people working in a store I just feel bad for these people because I know they dont make enough to live on happily. I have also noticed the people working in the stores have maintained a lazy attitude towards work because nobody teaches them anything.
6:07 Actually, there are people who can 'think' and people who can only 'follow'. I am at the position where I dealt with both. The first kind of people, giving them freedom to do things their way get things done in the most efficient way they can think of. While the second kind of people, if you do not set processes in place for them to follow, they don't get things done, or a ton of mistakes is made along the way. Not intended, but I do have to treat them like factory workers.
The fact that he's gping out of his way to make videos about what's not working for the game industry and why, shows he really cares about it, and I'm sure MOST game developers or heads of these companies wouldn't waste their breath on trying to fix anything. So long they're still getting a fat check, that is.
Honestly , any high level position held by somebody in favour of rapid prototyping is a blessing . He’s somebody who wants to get shit done
Yeah but the problem is that comapred to him, lower level employees are not able to chagne the process. I'm pretty sure any small change of "do it now" is fine at the moment, but in big corporation setting what makes sense isn't always what is being rewarded. And he is the one who could if anything change how people are rewarded
I have people like him in my company too. They earn 3 times your money, of course they are more invested in the company lmao. Meanwhile people like him are coming to you requesting things and of course his thing is the most important right now. Meanwhile you’re already overworked with multiple deadlines coming up and already over them. I make sure that i do my specific thing for the company asap and whenever someone like him comes along who things his request rn is more important than the 10 other things i have to do I’ll do them last
@@DommeUG1you dont know who tim cain is lmao
Looking at the way Larian dealt with becoming a much larger studio, at least from what I have gathered, they still maintain a level of synergy in the work environment even at a larger scale. At least from what some devs and employees spoke about, they are usually assigned as a smaller group of people each, to work on a particular part and the circle of people that they work with and know in the company is small, but they know each other a lot better and have better synergy because of it. They don't require to be motivated by just the higher up, but they simply motivate each other because that energy that is found in a small studio is still present in their smaller circle of people they work with. That way not everything has to be supervised by the highest in the company on an individual level, and everyone gets room for brainstorming and being engaged with the work that they have to do.
Your example of telling two guildmates who dislike each other that you'll deal with it but then not doing anything is actually not an example of ignoring the problem. You are addressing the problem via psychological manipulation and intimidation which works. Ignoring the problem in this example would be to not say or do anything about it at all.
More small 'garage' companies, less corpos.
It's the only way to return to form.
the process Asmongold described where he is able to extend out a task into all of its steps and substeps isn't itself a symptom of adhd, but what is when a person can't control it, where their mind always does that, it makes every single task incredibly exhausting and can be debilitating. I do think Asmongold described it very well and suspect he has had issues with it in the past, but if he can control it then good for him, some people cant though, and that sometimes where medication can help if simple therapy cant
The problem was described by Tim in the video, in the game industry accountability and passion are rewarded by layoffs. The best example is the Creative Assembly fiasco, 40% of the staff fired because of the executives, how can anyone have passion and want to be accountable in that environment?
If they stopped making woke games they'd have more money and less turnover.
never give 100% of yourself to another person (especially an employer), unless youre in control of the outcome either way. This is why indie devs will always be the ones to push things forward, because they truly care and have a passion for what they are working on, and once those devs make it big, the cycle of self destruction and stagnation continues until someone new comes along.
Creative Assembly is a perfect example of this, because their issues are recent but have been piling up over years.
I mean we just saw the Hans Zimmerman of gaming get axed (Michael Salvatori). How can you expect the people literally laying the foundations for these games to do anything but the bare minimum knowing regardless of how well the game does they are on the chopping block first. At the same time the people in charge of major decisions that usually ruin games are just trying to make the quarterly reports look good so they can get their end of the year bonus.
Tim Cain: What is the best perks in Fallout to pick up?
Asmon: Lazy and selfish
My job recently moved my productivity requirements up by 40%. I was able to hit my marks easily before but becasue of that enjoyed the job, always went past the mark, and did good work. Now, I barely hit my marks and I feel rushed all day, so my work is also worse overall. Super fun!
Asmon's technique against people asking for favors is almost identical to Sam Hyde's strategy to get debt collectors to leave you alone. This shit works
Different builds, same damage output 😅😅
He cant keep getting away with it
Software development is all about problem solving and loving to solve problems and see things work. I can understand how Tim feels. If anyone in your engineering department complains about having problems to solve, ask them why they're in their line of work, because that IS the work XD And while bandaid fixes get results, understanding the root cause of something is always a better way to solve something the correct way the first time.
Yes, but nowadays big companies don't hire devs with huge amounts of experience and bright ideas, they just want devs that work on theri assigned tickets and that's about it. The amount of companies where going over what your work demands of you will reward you with something meaningful is almost non-existant, devs have no incentives to go above and beyond, hell even if you put in extra hours nobody will care if anything you may get chewed out in some companies because the company may be liable of worker explotation law.
I personally just work the tickets I'm given, try to document all my work properly, help coworkers when I think I can help, and if I don't have much to do because I finished my tickets before expected and there's nothing esxtra to do, I either go to youtube and waste whatever time I have left until I gotta clock out, or maybe do a couple courses on linkedin and call it a day.
I try to not stress about the job, no overtime, and keep my team lead happy.
Don't live in Seattle; live in the Puget Sound area across the water from Tacoma. I grew up there, secluded way back in the sticks.
As my old boss told me when he offered me a job, "coding is innate you either can do it, or you can't, but it cannot be taught." What he meant by this isn't that you can't be taught a coding langiage, but rather the understanding of coding at its core. Think of it on a creative level, coding is an art, everyone can be taught to paint, not everyone can be Picasso.
11:38 This is exactly how DSP approaches any and every request his audience has ever made of him. There's a hundred examples one could point to but I always recall this video of him back in the day explaining why being a CZcamsr is actually an extremely complicated profession that requires way more work than any of the normies could possibly fathom. He breaks down the process of uploading a video into 85 micro steps, it's absolute lunacy, and hilarious to boot.
Literally changed my perception on what a game was and could be.
It's really interesting to see that people commenting on symptons of the examples he gave, rather than cause. I feel like this is a constant issue no matter what facet of life's problems we are dealing with or disucssing. People are always going to quickly latch onto the path of least resistance.
What I feel like we are dealing with in this day and age can only be coined as 'Hyper Choice Resistance'; societies unwavering undercurrent to speed up decision making due to modernisation; the number of problems the average person has to calculate on a daily basis exceeds that of our ancestors, yet the core hardware has not fundamentally changed. We now do not have the time to allocate proper thought to the myriad of tasks thrown at us on a daily basis, so the optimal approach is to only dig surface level for answers. Go watch the start of the movie 'The God's must be crazy' and you will understand what I mean.
This is how we've reached a society that wants pandering to a personal worldview. How we want confirmation bias. We want the fast food version of problems/solution; surface level, zero nutritional value, zero effort to digest, highly processed beyond the raw truth. And it needs to come with a side of memes or entertainment. And we wonder why ADHD is being diagnosed more and more than ever. It's because we are running at capacity in this lifetime.
It’s strange to think that an employee who steps into work of 100+ person corporation would take ownership over something where they would get none of the credit or financial rewards for.
When studios are small, everyone is on the ground floor and the benefits from all of the improvements and hard work are much more tangible.
When the companies become too large, the gap between the original staff and new employees becomes insurmountable. The new employees have no vision and feel replaceable because they are.
This is the natural order of things, and why indie developers are passionate and artistic…until they aren’t.
All of the people who criticized his first video have never had to think critically and collaborate with a team to complete a goal.
This "Fallout creator" is a corporate shill.
@@OilFreeFeathers ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
He's the Internet Historian
13:40 - I've seen this from both sides - it tends to boil down to "this is what happens when for three decades Management is all stick and no carrot"
Some of it is managers jealously guarding their *very* limited resources which is why something that is *objectively simple and even well defined* can take two-four weeks instead of two days with developer level testing.
Some of it - and the above one mentions it in an offhand way - is just *completely inadequate* resource availability: Not enough people have been hired or trained to do the job that's needed.
Some of it is "Act Your Wage" - Where people have learned that doing heroic levels of work to deliver on a deadline isn't treated as a _one off,_ it instead becomes what management considers to be the *new baseline* - This is actually an old lesson that is just being learned in Programming: Labor Unions have known this shit for *years*
And then, yes, of course, some of it is just basic incompetence and laziness.
The fucked up part about it? And I'll put it in terms used previously. "Fuck you, I don't care. It isn't *my* problem" - All of these issues are a *Management* problem.
Too few resources? Fuck you, hire more people.
Resource guarding? Fuck you, manage your employee's allocations better.
Act your wage? Fuck you, recognize and respect that you can't run your team ragged and redline all the time - also hire more people.
Bad or Lazy workers? Fuck you, it's your job to figure that out.
7:27 they've made bet on the person to do the topdown decisions. Give more autonomy for the teams, and you'll get the involvement
If you use best practices, changing code shouldn't break shit. If you are just some code monkey not compartmentalizing different aspects of the code you are working on, you are just making spaghetti and it will be tough to swallow later. Those people might be fully capable of doing a good job, but if they are told by bosses to just put in some hack to make shit work sooner, it's no wonder that companies are rarely able to push out a polished game in 2023.]
Whole generations went through relentless reverse cognitive behavioral therapy, it isn’t surprising things turned out this way.
oversensitive indocrinated sub-humans. prioritize finding microagressions over actually doing their job
Tell me all about cognitive behavioral therapy PsyD. Abderlarch then I’d love a link to your dissertation on cognitive behavioral therapy and it’s relation to “whole generations”
@@TheTurtle1100you mad
@@TheTurtle1100 can't handle the truth being revealed can you?
@@TheTurtle1100 as soon as you prove you have higher than 85 iq
Curious case I got into trouble for doing things and expecting things faster than the rest of the company, I got reminded that it was not up to me to decide the pace and to adapt cause I was disrupting the timeline.
Anyone knows what volume control extension Asmon uses? It seems to work well and I cannot find any extension that works well...
I can see that Timothy Cain have big brain and is not one of that corporate bs staff members that are managing this days - great guy this Timothy ;)
You mentioned what may truly be the issue with one word, "Accountability". I think that issue is spread throughout the workforce. It's also a tough line for managers to walk. Holding employees accountable but also not completely ruining their perceived "self-worth" to the company. Unfortunately not a lot of managers know how to do this, but also employees aren't use to being held accountable . Put those two together and it drastically increases the difficulty.
i love around 12 mins when you start to talk about the difficulties of going out.
remines me a lot of dating in 2023. people have been burned so bad by now that everyone has a reason NOT to meet vs. just going out and having a little bit of hope.
its absolutely crazy that its this difficult to get people out of their house and out of their norms
I didnt catch the first part, but this all depends on who the employee is. A computer scientist is hired to write code, a software engineer is hired to design.
You wouldn't ask a construction worker to design a building. Cmon
Tim is amazing, would be a good talk to drink with him a coffee, well or beer.
The original FallOut was something else
broken window theory: something is broken, people notice it does not get fixed, they stop caring themselves...
When I was 16 years old I had by far the best product scan rate at the local supermarket. Because I found out how to pause the timer.
When Asmon described the gordian knot, he was describing the programmer's attitude
i really like those confronting views of asmon (assume the worst people (naturally) are and work with it in mind) and timothy (the systems are the problem not the people). i can not help but think reactions like these are what timothy wishes for.
they are not mutually exclusive, you can have lazy bums but also systems that made it possible for those lazy bums get hired to begin with and/or not get discovered/ thrive in the company.
Asmon would be the biggest piece of sh1t boss in American history with how lazy, yet high standards he has.
@@gryn-mainAAA game development is a highly competitive industry. Most people don't get into the industry by being lazy, even if some of them do exist. Tim is trying to point out the more significant systemic issue, while Asmond and others want to focus on a minor problem of laziness (which is ironic coming from Asmon). Most people in AAA work hard, but the process is so broken that it can't be overcome with hard work alone.
As a game dev, you should be 100% unblocking designers/artists to hit your mvp
Every year you work and inflation rises, if you don't get a raise to match you're getting a paycut
Time Caine is too based for this world.
I have worked in software before and seen some employees that just don't want to perform.
I have seen good employees give up for a few reasons:
1. There a contractor and don't care for the company or the product
2. Management keeps changing their minds and not showing a clear vision
3. Management don't want to listen to what is best and the employee feels unheard
4. Too much meeting that go nowhere that saps a workers time
The pauses were perfect and hilarious!
Back in the day, when the industry was small and so were the studios/companies, employees were given large equites and bonuses based on how fast and how much money the product made. This meant that your interest as an employee was to make the product faster and better.
Today, you will be lucky if you get a bonus, and in the current situation of the industry, you'd be lucky to still have a decent salary.
The executives and manager don't want to hear the truth and the shareholders don't understand the truth.
Just about every discussion it's a mix pool of people (age, experience, interest, and trolls). Just a reminder, it's not a perfect world. If this guy had a private developer to mature gamers conference. He'll get nearly 100% of what he wants.
For too many years publishers have been getting the blame and devs could literally do no wrong
11:00 making a temporary AI is the same solution. Temp fix is temp fix
What he’s talking about is a lack of people taking ownership of their work. This is because we’ve been taught from a young age that obedience is rewarded, not ingenuity or ownership. Read Seth Godin’s “Stop Stealing Dreams” and learn how the modern school system is ruining all the qualities that are required to do meaningful work.
Whenever I do pottery in school, I often take forever. Last class I realized my issue, i'm not brave. It takes bravery to do something, like changing the ai. Even if it's just testing, anxiety can make it feel like it's not. As in, "Wait, but what if it's not saved correctly? What if I mess up and overwrite it? What if my stats sheet is misplaced or useless? What if i'm not testing it the right way? What if i'm testing the wrong stuff?" Etc etc.. And yes, I know i'll become that kind of person most likely when I get a serious job. But I do hope to have the self awareness to tackle that issue head-on.
anxiety in work comes from not being skilled and knowing it. grind more practice and it goes away. similar case for personal life.