How Sonic The Hedgehog 4 Killed Nostalgia - The Development Of Sonic 4
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- Sonic 4….man what a weird game but episode 2 kinda fire doe
Want to give a huge thanks to Codelack for making the awesome thumbnail! Check her art out! ( / codelack.art )
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Sources:
Birthday contest videos:
Needlemouse The Musical - Random Encounters
( • NEEDLEMOUSE: THE MUSIC... )
A Day In The Life - megaA1thunderforce
( • A Day In The Life - S... )
Blue Sky Parallax Dreams - Joseph Merrick
( • Sonic's 19th Birthday ... )
Happy 19th Sonic! - Club9FTW
( • Happy 19th, Sonic! - S... )
Sonic 4 Episode 1 Sources:
Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode 1 -Wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_t...)
Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode 1- SonicFandom (sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic_t...)
Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode 1/Development - sonicretro.com (info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_...)
Needlemouse Archvies - sonicstadium.org
(www.sonicstadium.org/tag/proj...)
Leaked Video Screens Reveal Levels in Sonic 4- 1-up.com
(web.archive.org/web/201304120...)
Sonic Unleashed Review - ign.com
(www.ign.com/articles/2008/11/...)
Sonic 4 Gameplay Leaked -sonicretro.org
(sonicretro.org/2010/02/16/son...)
Dutch Fansite Leaks Details On PNM - sonicstadium.org
(www.sonicstadium.org/2010/01/...)
Sonic 4 Episode 1 PartnerNET -SonicRetro.org
(info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_...)
Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode 1 Sony QA Network Prototype - sonicretro.com (info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the...)
Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode 1 WiiWare JP Prototype - sonicretro.com (info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the...)
Sonic 4 Episode 1 PartnerNET - 1stkirbyever
( • Sonic 4 Episode I: Par... )
Sonic Birthday Contest Forum - sonicthehedgehog4.com
(web.archive.org/web/201006261... )
Sonic Birthday Contest Announcement - blogs.sega.com
(web.archive.org/web/201006281...)
Sonic 4 Birthday Contest Winners Announced - sonicstadium.org
(www.sonicstadium.org/2010/08/...)
Sonic 4 Episode 2 Sources:
Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode 2 -Wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_t...)
Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode 2- SonicFandom (sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic_t...)
Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode 2 Beta 8 - sonicretro.com (info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_...)
SEGA Celebrates Hedgehog Day, Hints at Tails in S4E2 - tssznews.com
(web.archive.org/web/201102051...)
Sonic 4 Episode 2 Official Trailer - Gamespot
( • Sonic the Hedgehog 4: ... )
Sonic 4 Episode 2 Release Date for 2012 - eurogamer.net
(www.eurogamer.net/sonic-4-epi...)
SEGA Releases S4E2 Concept Art Every Friday - sonicstadium.org
(www.sonicstadium.org/2012/01/...)
Sonic 4 Episode 2 Reactions to Steam Leak- board.sonicstadium.org
(board.sonicstadium.org/topic/...)
Sonic 4 Episode 2 Steam Leak - gamezone.com
(www.gamezone.com/news/sonic-4...)
S4E2 Beta 8 Multiplayer - Prophecy
( • Sonic 4 Episode 2 (Bet... )
Sonic 4 Episodes Canned - mcvuk.com
(www.mcvuk.com/business-news/f...)
Ken Balough Words On S4E3 - tssznews.com
(web.archive.org/web/201501080...)
All other sources (couldn't fit in desc lol):
tinyurl.com/5c6rjvca
Outro Music: Sonic Mega Collection - History
Prologue 0:00
Part 1 0:45
High Hopes & High Desires 03:44
Be Careful What You Wish For 07:59
The Day Of Reckoning: Episode 1 16:14
Part 2 16:35
You Can’t Teach An Old Hedgehog New Tricks 20:27
Part 3 22:13
Eldarin Discord Art Contest Winners & Gallery 23:50
#Sonic #SonicTheHedgehog #Sonic4 #Sonic4Episode1 #Sonic4Episode2 #SonicOrigins #SonicFrontiers #SonicAdventure2 #SA1 #SonicAdventureDX #SonicAdventure #SA2 #SonicColors #SonicColorsUltimate
Profile Picture done by Novika ( / imarusama ) - Hry
I’d like to just make a quick clarification that I probably didn’t explain well enough in the video: in the part where I was discussing the other games (Riders, Unleashed, Colors, etc.) I was giving the general public perspective of the normies at the time and the games metacritic scores, not my views on the games. While the tide has changed in terms of general public opinion…there was a reason why Sonic 4 was a thing and that’s because those games listed above were trashed upon release. Personally, I really like all of them and would like to do full separate videos going over my thoughts on those games at some point.
thanks to everyone who participated in the art contest. Also def check out those birthday contest videos in the description, they’re pretty much peak CZcams soul (when it was). Put a smile on my face :,)
if interested here is the eldarin discord link: discord.gg/fCh4Rnb6sW
Kk
First
Awesome video
Happy birthday
I'm so glad to have my art featured in this video! Thank you Eldarin.
I will honestly never grow tired of people tearing apart this game. Sonic 4 is so amusingly soulless and terrible.
Same with 2006.
@@ikagura06 had two things this game lacked, decent story and great music
@@rankrodent2772 2006's ost was great but the story was bad.
@@ikagura I’d take a story that tried and failed over a story that doesn’t try (like colors) any day
@@rankrodent2772 Then go for RPGs not platformers.
Mario barely had any stories and they're all great.
Colors is a better game than 2006.
Sonic 4 was to Classic Fans what Sonic Forces was to "Dark Age" fans
The Dark Age was the 00's
@@ikagura you’re fucking everywhere bitching and insisting that the meta era was good in the long run lol
A lip service imitation lost in the shadow of what it claimed to be the follow-up to?
Well if Sonic 4 got owned by Mania, then hopefully a true successor to the early 3D games can appear.
@@celerity910 Colours was the good part of 3D games
Is now.
I can tell that Sonic 4 doesn't run on Sonic Rush's engine, because Rush is actually enjoyable.
Rush I an amazing and fun game unlike Sonic 4
It feels like a more sluggish version of rush’s engine. Not just because of no boost but 4 has a slow start up speed, stopping on a dime after building momentum, the stiff jump, etc compared to rush.
@@BH-98 it's a shame so many Sonic games have a hard time being Sonic games. And I say this as someone who enjoyed some of the controversial/hated games.
Sonic 4 would of been good if the physics were more like tge Sonic Advance trilogy, or 2 Sonic Rush games. Those games were also made by Dimps, so it proves they had the physics down well at one point.
@@beauwalker9820 tf is a sonic game
@@moosesues8887 what is "tf?"
It’s crazy that Christian Whitehead has been continuously saving Sega’s ass for over a decade
the goat
Sonic Mania is genius
Fans know that 👍
Hese the GOAT
He did that once. ONCE.
They're fun games on Android, but my problem is that that Episode 1 requires a ton of permissions, like access to your contacts list and requiring an internet connection. Why the hell does Sonic need a connection to the internet?! They haven't been updated for years, and both episodes don't work with add-on controllers like the Razer Kishi v2, which sucks. I'm running Android 13 and every time I open it up it says "this game was created for a previous version of Android, it may not work with your device."
Sonic 4 is so loved that sonic mania is consider by some people as the real sonic 4
I thought Sonic 4 Episode 2 was decent. Still not particularly decent as a sequel to Sonic 3 or anything, but, y'know, decent as its own thing at least. Thought the moves Sonic & Tails could perform together were fun, kind of like a spiritual successor to the partner mechanics in Sonic Advanced 3, which you mentioned. Too bad it was so short of a game and there was never an Episode 3 to follow up on the cliffhanger. The overall low quality of Sonic 4 Episode 1 just did too much damage I guess, and they really shot themselves in the foot by calling it Sonic The Hedgehog 4. A shame, really.
agreed, if S4E2 was named differently I think the perception would be alot better. the game is pretty fun imo. thanks for watching!
@@Eldarin It would need to be full length too.
@@Gnidel
Maybe like 4 more Zone’s at least, or instead took the 4 main Zone’s (and changed them entirely beside’s a few Zone name’s) from Sonic.T.H.4 Ep.1.
Better than
New Sonic the Hedgehog
New Sonic the Hedgehog & Tails
New Sonic the Hedgehog 2
New Sonic the Hedgehog Xbox Series
It feels like Iizuka is controlled by fear, always too afraid to move forward and too stick to an idea. The man also has an obsessive attachment to nostalgia and trying to go back to the Genesis games, even Mania was not allowed to be all new zones due to this.
Mania is an anniversary game and what's wrong with nostalgia?
The Genesis games were the best.
Iizuka needs to be fired because Whitehead did Sonic better than Sega in 20 years.
@@ikagura they were great but I still prefer sonic adventure 1 and 2 and shadow 05, most of the stuff afterwards I just try to pretend that they don’t exist
@@ikagura Nothing wrong with nostalgia as long as it isn't overdone.
@@rankrodent2772 Colors is better than these.
Sonic 4 was a huge mis-step, Sega saw all the praise Capcom had recieved with Mega Man 9 and rather than stick to it's routes, making it look like an actual Mega Drive/Genesis game, they just used the name on a mobile phone game they had in development.
A total wasted opportunity all around.
Sega being sega as usual
Classic Mega Man is the best.
@@ikagura Did you like Mega Man 9?
@@Larry Yes, it was a good return to the roots episode.
8-bits Megaman can't be surpassed.
Sega: ""We're making a game for the old fans!"
Fans: "So it's gonna be a good game right?"
Sega:
Fans: "So it's gonna be a good game right?????"
We will answer that question 7 year later not now
- Sega probably
For a game called Sonic 4, this game sure didn't leave an impact at all.
The Sonic advance trilogy we’re the proper sequels to the genesis trilogy
@@rankrodent2772 No, Advance is Modern Sonic.
Mania is the true sequel to the Genesis ones.
@@ikagura it plays the same
@@rankrodent2772 What?
@@ikagura did I fucking stutter?
There's so much irony and sarcasm in this video i cant even tell whats real anymore
As someone who started playing Sonic with Sonic 1 on the Genesis, this wasn't the case for me or my friends. Heck Adventure 1 and 2 was extremely popular back then on the Dreamcast as well. The younger fans didn't really take off till around the time of Heroes, where the flawed ports of A1 and 2 was released for the Game Cube. It took the Meta Era for me to jump on the "things were better back in my day" bandwagon. Sure the Classic purists were around, but a lot of us still liked the newer stuff.
Classic games and Colors are good.
@@ikagura _classic_ fans complained about the _modern_ games, now _modern_ fans are complaining about the _meta_ games, I wonder how long before the _meta_ fans start trying to tear down the _future_ games.. or has it already begun...!
@@RodniDemental Meta is Modern tho.
@@ikagura No, there is nothing "modern" about meta Sonic, it literally (unsuccessfully) rehashes all the elements from either classics or mario. Its all nostalgia bait, an thats it.
@@sezunemizuhana3870 It's still Modern Sonic, Adventure Sonic is also Modern Sonic.
Sonic 4: Episode 1 a key example of celebrate regression and reveling in mediocrity. Why is celebrating you only have one playable character a good thing when one of the key things the series was built upon was expansion.
Sonic 1: Sonic is playable, and you have momentum based physics
Sonic 2: Sonic is playable, as is the new character Tails, you also get the Spin Dash and now Super Sonic
Sonic CD: Sonic is playable, a time travel mechanic, Amy is introduced and voice acting (albeit very limited but babysteps!)
Sonic 3 & Knuckles: Sonic is playable, as is Tails who can now fly and Knuckles is introduced with his own unique moveset and cutscenes that expand the narrative for both Sonic and Knuckles in the games
Sonic Advance: An expansion of the 16-bit games with better graphics and now Amy is playable with her own moveset
Sonic Advance 2: Proto-boost with Cream being the new character and own play style
Sonic Advance 3: Two player teams with each team having unique team up moves
Sonic Rush: Further expanded the boost gameplay and while the roster of playable characters shrunk it still introduced Blaze
Sonic 4 Episode 1: Sonic is playable and now with the Homing Attack and...
Its like everything that made the old 2D games good were stripped away, right down to the momentum based physics! But yet it gets 9/10 across the board, calling it the game Sega should have made 15 years ago - along with disgusting derogatory comments about Vanilla - like 2D Sonic suddenly died after Sonic Adventure came out in 1998. Also with the marketing from Sega of America, is it any wonder why I strongly dislike the English social media. I mean whatever happened to carrying yourself with a bit of respect and dignity, like from 1991-2009? Now we get "Tomatopotamus/Sonic never worked in 3D" and self deprecating memes like its desperate for approval.
"You think I'm a joke? I KNOW I'm a joke! Oh, please like me, please!"
Also with the over reliance of nostalgia and returning back to Green Hill for the 100th time it really does seem as Johnny Gioeli sang on Crushing Thirties it does seem like the series was indeed being held back the legacy behind it rather than actually looking to move forward. Because what good as a world where Green Hill goes on forever?
Also just quickly, while Ep.2 is better than the first one, the lack of a playable Tails when playing solo, with the kid locked behind player 2, is just dumb! Because it should not be that difficult to select the fox cub when you consider how it was handled in previous titles. And Advance 3 proving that tag team moves can work just with Sonic not even being in the team, nevermind the legal man.
Mania is how to do it.
@@ikagura in some ways it is, however in other ways not so much.
How it's not because only five years earlier we had a greatest hits through time and space with Sonic Generations, we really did not need another one. Because if Sonic keeps dwelling in the past, he won't have a future and what good is a world where Green Hill goes on forever!? More so, when you consider that the Advance and Rush games never rehashed the same old Zones over and over again, making brand stages from start to finish.
But what it did do right was having a handful of brand new stages, as well as additional playable characters - with Knux and Miles - to properly celebrate the series, something Generations is sorely lacking with your only options being Sonic with his 3D and and 2D gameplay and Sonic with 2D and...? Sega seemed to be listening a little too closely to critics that they've forgotten it wasn't Sonic alone who built the franchise, despite it having his name on it.
@@DemonDethchase Generations and Colors are good game.
I mean nostalgia is what makes Sega still having fans.
And I want to see more Genesis-like content because it was the best from the series.
@@ikagura To each their own, but I completely disagree about "nostalgia is what makes Sega still having fans", because what made Sonic great in the first place was how different it was from the competition and how it kept innovating with each new game (like OP said), plus I think we've had enough nostalgia bait this past decade.
For now Sonic should focus on doing its own thing _and_ it being good, because as it's been made painfully obvious by now, classic or modern, Sonic games won't be good as long as Sega doesn't care enough to make sure it's good.
@@inendlesspain4724 Yakuza, Bayonetta and Persona are the only good post+Dreamcast IPs.
Streets of Rage 4 was great, the Panzer Dragoon remake was good and Sonic Mania was excellent.
I miss the Sega of the 90's and I want more things that are reminiscent of this golden era.
It's still weird to me how Sonic Team haven't waited till their schedule would allow them to work on Sonic 4 themselves. Granted, without most of the original genesis creators not working at SEGA it would still make it a worse experience, but Iizuka's full supervision over the project would've helped tremendously. Great video as always, Eldarin and i am very thankful for that shoutout! Peace ✌
Iizuka isn't a good game director.
@@ikagura that's not the case
@@thrasher9534 Then tell me why he made the worst game ever aka Sonic 2006?
@@ikagura Iizuka worked on S3&K, the Adventure games, Heroes, Shadow, Unleashed, Colours, Gens and even had a small part to play in Mania. 1 mistake vs 9 successes. You really wanna call him a bad director?
@@ikagura Because he had to salvage a project that he didn't start when Yuji Naka left, with half of the team working on Secret Rings, on new consoles, with extremely strict deadline.
Also, it's not the worst even within Sonic series.
Yeah, I was never a fan of Sonic 4. But that’s quite a fascinating story on how it was developed. Gr8 vid Eldarin 👍
thanks so much samic!!
Have you played episode 2?
@@jalolastname5446 not that much of it actually
Sonic 4 Ep 2 is legit enjoyable. That being said thats just me and i also love seeing this game be torn apart bc its deserved. If the game was named literally anything but Sonic 4 i think it wouldve been reviewed better. The fact Ep2 reviewed way worse than Ep 2 is beyond me
yeah episode 2 is pretty fun, I enjoy it myself and glad you do too. i did a review on it a bit ago going more in-depth on my thoughts if interested. thanks for watching!
@@Eldarin Np. I love channels with well thought out analysis, i watch a ton of them. And you're good. I did watch your other Sonic 4 video it was good! Honestly the genesis/Mania sonic games are ideally how a 2d sonic should control but as long as the game is fun i dont really mind the physics being off. Generations classic sonic is fun as hell to me but Forces Classic Sonic controls like ass for example. And for my money Sonc 4 ep 2 controls ok but i had fun, the zones are all very good. There are tons of alt paths due to the Tails fly mechanic. Episode Metal is a joke tho but the 1st acts of the Sonic 4 levels were usually the best ones of the zone so really you get the best of Sonic 4 ep1 for what thats worth lol
@@shaankelly1302I always figured that Episode 1 got better review scores because of how a game that attempts to invoke nostalgia as heavily as this hadn't really been done in Sonic at that point in time. Basically, it was less impressive to these reviewers the second time around. Not to mention Generations came out only a year before Episode 2, which handled the whole nostalgia thing better.
I got the opportunity to play Sonic 4 (both episodes) and gotta say something.
Episode I is actually soulless, physics are so terrible and models are *so* plastic (in PS3, in smartphones are another thing) and some enemies are in a strategic position to f*ck you. Episode II is ton times better that Episode I, levels have personality and aren't classic layouts from Sonic's classic games. Doesn't feel like a true Sonic's classic trilogy continuation. Both episodes aren't worthy, but, Episode II is actually enjoyable, got better physics, better layout, better story, better everything.
How did Unleashed get worse ratings than episode 1 and 2???(ep 2 only for the xbox version apparently) Unleashed was way better.
Unleashed is like 80% of werehog.
@@ikagura Unleashed is awsome
@@rac1equalsbestgame853 if you don't take the werehog stages into account
@@ikagura The werehog is only bad if you're bad at Werehog gameplay
@@rac1equalsbestgame853 For me i really liked the change and the battle system was awesome and for me this game is where sonic reaches the higher speed motion of them all.
Refreshing to see someone mention the actual context behind the decisions of this game and the meta era by extension. Too many people forget how many felt about the series back then, or simply ignore it due to something along the lines of "I was like 10 and didn't care about them haterz" regardless of how far the series strayed from it's course and how much it wobbles between said course.
In Japan, four means death.
I love the false-sincerity you poured into this video; the consistency of your tone between your joked praise and your serious discussion was impressive. I mean, "Hit console Ouya" is said without a hint of a chuckle. The presentation for the video was also fantastic and it was overall very informative.
19:36 - With the world separating plot line used also by Unleashed and the team mechanic used in Sonic 4 Ep 2 and Sonic Forces, it seems they like calling back/taking from Sonic Advance 3. To be fair, the team up mechanic is a cool thing and is a great way to take advantage of Sonic's wide cast of characters, which is a series' strength in my opinion.
Sonic riders flopped ?? That game was amazing as fuck.
yeah unfortunately, back in the day it got panned by reviewers…I agree it’s incredible. not sure on sales though
Too little levels when Mario Kart had much more
@@ikagura That's Rider's only flaw
@@rac1equalsbestgame853 And complicated gameplay with little to no tutorials.
Kirby Air Ride is better.
@@ikagura The complicated gameplay is what makes Riders so much fun to get good at. Yeah, the terrible tutorial is a bad thing but it is soo much fun to get good at!
i think the best thing to come out of all this is *specifically* the Steam port of Episode II. that game's speed is tied to the framerate, so if you have a capable monitor you can change the framerate cap in your graphics card settings. when capped at 75 FPS, episode II genuinely feels great to play. very smooth and very speedy. it's a shame the game has as many dud levels as it does (which, granted, is only a couple of Acts, but that's still two or three out of twelve full levels). i really wish these titles had gone for the two-act structure so they could fit in an extra zone per game or something
Never knew how much Episode I was hyped up, just thought it went "poof I'm here" alongside a few trailers.
The sarcasm is so good in this video, I thought you were being honest throughout it all, Great job :D!
Glad you enjoyed it…yeah I like to stir the pot for the fun of it lmao. I may do actual reviews on some of the games, not sure yet. Thanks for watching
I love how the thumbnail concept art looks better than the entire game 💀
Sonic 4 is the Morbius of video games
first game to sell 1 sonillion copies
Nice video Eldarin. May have been a long time but paid off. Glad to have another upload
Generations is my most favorite Sonic game and I think it handled nostalgia very well.
Played this game 10 years ago, and I did have fun playing it, while enjoying the music.
I do see, though, how people don’t like how Episode 1 didn’t make anything really original and the glitches that were present
I think this video was really good and it approached well the topic of Sonic 4! There were 2 things that you didn't mention probably because you didn't know so I will leave extra info here :)
- Sonic The Portable has been officially confirmed to be the name on the first iOS build of the game (the one with the Rush model). If you stand still on that version you get an idle animation where Sonic grabs a phone and dances to the sound of the stage music and if you really zoom in you can see a small even less recognizable Sonic The Portable logo (I have a playthrough of this build in my channel if anyone wants to check out)
- Sonic the Hedgehog 4 as a whole had a Flash Microsite with tons of info featuring 3d models, gifs, detailed descriptions and more. The most interesting part is that this marks the first retcon to Sonic 3 & Knuckles story as a whole. It makes so Super Emeralds are not a thing, Knuckles becomes friends with Sonic at Mushroom Hill due to being betrayed by Eggman who sent an Eggrobo due to Knuckles failing to stop Sonic in Launch Base Zone (making so Knuckles campaign happens at the same time as Sonic and not after as it should be) and describes Super Sonic fighting the Death Egg Robot in Doomsday Zone while Super Knuckles fights Super Mecha Sonic in Sky Sanctuary with BOTH happening at the same time and BOTH saving the Master Emerald in 2 different places AT THE SAME TIME! (There is also a video of this in my channel if anyone is interested).
Either way sorry for adding this little comment just found it would be good to give a more complete info on details many miss.
Take care and keep up the great work Eldarin!
Who ever wrote that page never played Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Knuckles game happened after Sonic campaign cause on Angel Island you can see the background it's in the air as opposed to Sonic where it's in the surface.
God I remember watching the teaser and leak in real time as it was going on back then. It was pretty disappointing to me as I never wanted a fake classic game like this.
At least Mania exists.
@@ikagura overrated
@@rankrodent2772 what about sonic origina
@@rankrodent2772 origins
@@ikagura
Lol many years later. But yea mania is basically the real sonic 4.
Unpopular opinion (probably): Sonic Pocket Adventure and Advance 1 are the worthy candidates for the actual name of Sonic 4. Among the games released before the actual 4, I mean.
Pocket Adventure had Modern Sonic so no.
@@ikagura Sonic, yes, with the green eye thing. Even though Eggman shifted between Classic Robotnik and Modern design. Funny, that.
@@sonic40001 well, it could've been a transitional gamem
@@ArtseyHayton06 it is
@@sonic40001 but knowing Sega, they wouldn't acknowledge it.
As a kid who had grown up with Genesis sonic, and someone who did not keep up with any of the 3d games, I saw sonic 4 ep 1 on the xblm one day and thoroughly enjoyed my purchases
Despite what people say about the game, I personally enjoyed sonic 4 episode 1 and 2. I played it on mobile, Xbox 360, and just recently on my PC. I didn't mind the physics and thought it was a pretty fun game
Great vid bro! That foott question that sega proposed actually sounds pretty interesting! Erm... maybe you should make a video about it sometime. Not forcing you but I'd love the opputunity to watch it with a snack and some orange juice. Peace!
4:48 Dammit Dan Schnider! Who let you write that question?!
Always a great day when there's a new eldarin video :)
Glad you enjoy it!
I'd argue Sonic Advance 1 is very much classic sonic, and Dimps made a lot of good stuff prior to sonic 4.
Advance 1 is Modern.
@@ikagura ikagura shut up.
@@ikagura I think he meant close to the Classic games in gameplay, quality, and physics/play control. Plus Sonic Advance is now 20 years old. It's older now then the first Sonic game was when Sonic Adventure first came out in 1999.
@@beauwalker9820 It's still a Modern Sonic game.
Anyway Mania is the true Sonic 4.
@@ikagura Advance 1 was made by the team behind Sonic Pocket Adventure and both games engine were a recreation of the Genesis games with momentum based physics and what not but Advance 1 later levels forshadowed how future Dimps games will be, with the over abundance of bottomless pits, annoying enemy placement and momentum braking gimmicks and level design.
Not Sonic 4 related but I personally miss other playable sonic characters
I felt that was one of the few positives from Sonic 06 as many characters had their own unique moveset.
I'm not saying every sonic game should be like that but it would be nice to have a 3D Sonic game with other characters again as it can work with enough time put into it.
You know whats weird I like 4 well enough and people didnt like it but when episode 2 came out I feel like level design got worse if Im playing white park act 2, oil desert, flying section in Sky Fortress Zone. I also played with with only playing the advance games under my belt
I don't care what anyone says Sonic Riders was a good game.
agreed. if you havent yet, make sure to check out the modding scene on it
I feel the same about shadow 05, easily one of my favorite GameCube games
The multiple endings gimic was a love hate relationship for me. The music was awesome though. I AM ALL OF MEEEEEEE!
I can’t believe they just left the Little Planet like that. Ten years later the cliffhanger is still unresolved…So sad considering how much better episode 2 was.
At least with the current status of the canon (you and me and everyone is inclined to make their own canon) we can just headcanon it to where the glass broke off overtime.
@@wildberrysherbert3803I just consider Sonic 4 non canon tbh.
@@nickytembo4112 Or that, that works too.
I loved this era 2010-2016 for geek culture, since the world was changing, this type of stuff was always exciting and fun. 😭
Loved this video, Eldarin! :D
As a hardcore fan who is older than Sonic himself, thank you for making this vid and being respectful to my generation that grew up with the Genesis games. Sonic's fanbase nowadays is mostly younger fans, so I feel like we usually take a backseat more often than not when it comes to video retrospectives. It's understandable, though. It's been 20 plus years since SA2 and there's a new generation who is nostalgic for their own era of Modern Sonic games (which I am also nostalgic for). It makes sense that they outnumber us at this point. Their voices deserve to be heard, as many people from my era seem to have stopped playing the games or just aren't as vocal in the fanbase.
I truly enjoyed S4 Ep1 when it came out. It definitely had some problems. The modern movements like the dash attack worked way better in the Advance games. Sonic's physics really should have felt more old school. They felt off for some reason. For example, Sonic would jump straight down without rolling into a ball. Little things like that made the game look nostalgic yet feel like a pale imitation of what it was trying to emulate. I still enjoyed it for what it was.
15:50 This Eggman right here... *He is wonderful!*
Agreed
I wish sega would use an actual genesis sound chip or something when trying to make genesis like music
Hey it has been awhile since I commented on any of your videos. It was fun to see you basically do a round 2 of the Sonic 4 saga while also going more in depth with the development. I found a post by Kevin Eva (who was a former community manager for the Sega Europe branch and was also under the username “ArchangelUK” on Sonic Retro) talking about how it was someone’s idea to name the then untitled mobile game as Sonic 4. He never names the individual I suppose because he isn’t allowed to or just out of respect for privacy but here is a transcript of what he said spanning three tweets:
_“Of course, Sonic 4 was an abject disaster. Mainly because someone arbitrarily decided a WIP title to test see if episodic content would work should suddenly be as important a title to the company as Sonic F**king 4. The person to blame for that should have been f**king fired. People demanded they were fired. They weren't. Were protected by those around them and I think given more power in the short term. Because games industry._
_I actually asked to be taken OUT of the credits for S4, it so railed (gleefully at times) against what should've and needed to be done which would end up being realised by Sonic Mania, (cheers boys super proud of ya) and I wanted no part of such a fundamental misstep.”_
Source: archive.ph/Bnd09
Also how could you bring up the 19th birthday contest without bringing up this classic which came from it:
czcams.com/video/DCIUfek7y2M/video.html
One last thing, I thought it pretty funny that in the Sonic 2 movie the name Splash Hill was referenced on a truck for a water bottle company to which Knuckles then immediately destroys. I feel like that was a subtle jab at the game by showing it in this manner.
Hey ZM, hope you have been good! Thanks for commenting and checking the video out. Always bringing new info to the table I never knew hahaha. That is so funny to me about the individual being taken out of the credits of Sonic 4 due to the naming situation....imagine being in that situation lol. I have actually spoke with Mr. Eva, when I was doing the Blaze video, he's an incredibly nice guy, small world he was the one who broke that regarding the whole naming thing. Also that birthday contest submission you linked is hilarious, now im hitting myself over the head regarding not putting that in the video LOL. Thanks again for watching and the support on the channel!!
@@Eldarin I always enjoy sharing any information I find! I saw that Blaze video when you first uploaded it so I had actually forgotten you already were in contact with Kevin Eva. If I did take anything from that Blaze video, now that I have the opportunity to tell you, it was that I at least now know that those conceptual images of Blaze in all black were actually from a legitimate source as I couldn’t find where exactly they came from before I saw that video so I thought they may have just been fan made initially.
It’s great to know you saw that birthday contest submission video. The following shot from where I linked with the guy running close to the camera is so funny with that face he is making. I remember seeing that specific part used as a GIF in some forums which is how I discovered that video since I wanted to know where it came from.
Thanks for responding and giving a heart to my comment too by the way.
I played one zone on an Ipad and noticed "episode 1" i will never go beyond that
I think Sonic 4 Episode 1 is in my top 5 WORSE Sonic games ever list…………. episode 2 is ok
U TOO U DIDN'T WATCH THE WHOLE VIDEO FIRST WATCH THEN COMMENT
Nah Free Riders,Labyrinth, Rol, Secret Rings, Sonic Spinball Gamegear, Sonic Blast, 3D Blast, Drift,Drift 2 are all worse
@@theminecraft2516 2006?
@@ikagura 🤔
@@ikagura this is far worse
My problem is the game shouldve been under a different name just to avoid the hate and not expect too much. I do agree sonic 4 ep 1 is very flawed and felt like it was trying to go for a remake lol.
Sonic 4 ep 2 was more enjoyable and improved it more.
Shame tho i wouldve liked an ep 3.
Eh i still give sonic props they least try different stuff for him unlike some series where you played one you played them all
@@secoTheSonicFan didnt realize that thank you
In hindsight and with what we’ve been getting since colors, I really miss the “dark era”
No thanks, Colours was actually a good Modern 3D Sonic game and Mania was the best game since the genesis era.
I'd take these over ShadOw the edge and 06 all day.
I prefer the Dark era over the Meta era.
At least the Dark era TRIED to be different rather than play it safe and desperately try to fit in with the "cool kids" with the Meta era. Completely destroyed Sonic personally (and others) with shitty social media accounts, Sonic WAS cool, because he have his own motives and a rebellious sprit. Best example was the Story book series.
Only three good meta games that is mostly consistent is Colors, Generations and Mania. Rest are just average or mediocre at best. Everyone can tear 06 apart being a buggy mess but those games don't hold your hand like in Forces. Hell from what I saw with a fan patching of Project '06 the levels looks way more fun than in forces, the structure is already there but no time to polish it out sadly.
Edit: Minor spelling and formatting.
@@ikagura shadow was a fun game and I will defend until the day I die
@@haaxxx9 agreed
@@ikagura I don't know why whenever people talk shit about the dark era they always bring up the same two games: Shadow 05 and Sonic 06. What about the advance and rush games? What about Riders? What about Unleashed? There were quite a few decent titles back then but they always get overshadowed by those two. Oh, and also the meta era had Boom ROL so...
Pretty sure it was painful making the intro for this video lol either way awesome video like always
Didn't the mobile game deadass end on a cliffhanger of Sonic just being like "Well, I hope there's another game so everyone finds out what happens next!" and then... that "another game" never happened lol
We least know that Sonic 4 episode 3 would have Knuckles.
Sonic Mania is the real Sonic 4.
ikagura shut up. Mania 10/10 tho.
The real sonic 4 was the misery we suffered through along the way
I must have been different. i played sonic 1 to 3 on sega gen and when sonic went away for a bit and showed back up on game cube i was stoked me and my buddy bought it from the store and we sang the sonic sat am sonic all the way home. we were so stoked to see sonic of the screen again.
to this day sonic 1 2 3 and s a2 are my all time fave sonic games.
I might be the odd man out but I adored sonic riders back in the day and thought it was really fun, it could be nostalgia blinding me but it was a nice change of pace especially how much I loved kart racers.
I cant believe they have the guts to call this Sonic 4 ,tarnishing the reputation of the first three games and then have to rely on some loyal fans to make a good Sonic game. It feels like Sonic Team is out of touch
Glad Whitehead is still full in touch with what made Sonic actually good.
Youre acting like this game came out recently, get over it, this game came out 12 years ago and only NOW are people hating it
@@cakelayer Not now. Not at all.
Sonic team didn’t make sonic 4
The extras song never fails to make me feel melancholic.
Not gonna mention that sonic 4 was made aware to the public prior to any annoumcent through ALTON TOWERS sonic spinball ride retheme? that we got the reveal of GHZs design, and Rodger Craig as the voice of sonic from then on
Sonic 4 is definitely one of the games ever made
Kirby super star is definitely one of the games to exist
@@moosesues8887 Talking as if Kirby Super Star wasnt a good game
@@mudafucca4420 zero sugar smash bros
I've always enjoye Sonic The Hedgehog 4 ep 1 & 2, and after my second playthrough of Sonic Mania a year ago, I can safely say that I (Flamed Sheild up) perfuse Sonic the Hedgehog 4 ep 1 & 2 for its FAR more forgiven level design, and I am still hoping for a Sonic the Hedgehog ep 3, there is still hope.
You didn't have to show that last piece of 'concept art' from the first part of Project Needlemouse
And yet here we are :'(
i don't even like sonic games that much but damn you're entertaining 20+ minutes fast as a breeze !
The winter zone from Episode 2 shows up in the IDW comics, by the way.
no way! that’s sick, I didn’t know that!
All due respect, but I don't think you know what nostalgia is. Nostalgia is when you like something just because you grew up with it and not because it was actually any good otherwise. So, killing nostalgia would actually be a good thing. The problem with Sonic 4 is that is expected people to like it just because of nostalgia, instead of actually being a good game in it's own right.
Mania is nostalgia done right.
Dang, that was a good video lol I didn't play either episodes myself because I didn't think it was worth my money and...well, I guess it truly wasn't heh
Not sure what this is worth, but I remember an old Sonic Stadium article where the writer played the E3 demo of Donkey Kong Country Returns' co-op with Takashi Iizuka. I wonder if that had any influence on Episode II.
The new Donkey Kong Country games are not as good as the SNES ones but they were still good.
Great video
Yeah sonic 4 is definitely overhated
Now granted I can understand why some may hate the game but I do feel the backlash (especially the green eye controversy) has gone way too far
Then again I guess I understood why the controversy happened this was at the time when studios (any kind) can expect people to accept mediocrity for cash
Hence why you have not only the classic sonic elitists, and later the dark age fans but also groups like gamergate and the fandom menace being responses to the changing landscape of entertainment
Great video and I’m glad that a history video surrounding sonic 4 exists
i didn’t mention it in the video, but I never saw but always heard about the green eye controversy online. when I was sifting thru the comments in the acrhived websites for the video, I finally saw how heated that got first hand hahaha. idk I love both sonics. i also enjoy s4e2 personally
There is no overhated Sonic games, plenty of overrated ones tho.
@@ikagura oh I don’t know there are sonic games that some may consider overhated
I do agree that there do exist overrated sonic games
Sonic 4 was praised simply for just getting rid of what people didn't like in prior games, Sonic mania is much closer to a sonic 4 even though it isn't sonic 4, excited to see more content
Sonic 4 was not praised and Mania is the real Sonic 4
@@ikagura read again, buddy
It was praised back in 2010 when it first came out
@@sussy-sonic no? Even back in 2010 people were shitting on it. The whole reason the physics were changed in the first place was due to an Xbox 360 build being leaked through a dev online service. People were already hating on it before it even got a release.
@@gamingnubs7628 Ok, so I suppose they're were a few people who disliked it, but trust me when I say that back in the day, people (mainly critics) were praising it (albeit for what it wasnt like Octo ooz said) but barely anyone likes it now as they say it's forgettable or outright insulting to the classics
For a speedy hedgehog he is always left in the dust by a certain plumber.
One thing I remember from the Sega forums is that Sega would do a shoutout video on youtube, where they would list all the people who had purchased Sonic 4: Episode 1 on all 4 platforms (iOS, PS3, 360, Wii) and proved it with some kind of photo evidence on the forums.
sonic mania should have been called Sonic 4
Personally, I don’t think they should as I feel that game was more like Sonic Generation’s but just all Classic Sonic.
Plus Forces is the sequel to Sonic Mania Plus so I would call that Sonic.T.H.5.
I mean having two games called sonic 4 would get confusing
Can you please do sonic and the black knight.
Not even 5 minutes in, and you already distracted me from the fact you were talking about Sonic 4!
Ah i remember buying Episode I on Wii Ware and be constantly waiting for Episode 2 to arrive...
I never played Episode 2
5:50 hear me out tho-
Im hearing you out
WAKE UP ELDARIAN UPLOADED
NO WAY U DIDN'T WATCH THE WHOLE VIDEO
DUDE HE HAVE A LIFE OUTSIDE OF CZcams
HOW WILL U LIKE IF I SPAM WHERE THE PINNED COMMENT WHEN U POPULAR.
@@Cliffordlonghead bro what did I do? I just commented before watching the video.
My friends and I played and loved the shit out of Sonic 4. The fact that we were heavily abusing cough medicine at the time is surely a coincidence.
Jokes aside, the PC port is indefensible and barely playable.
I actually… kind of… love (?) Episode 2. I wouldn’t say it’s “Sonic 4,” but it feels more like a Sonic CD sequel.
"Mr. Needlemouse" is not Sonic's prototype name. In reality it's a mistranslation of what Hedgehog is spelled in Japanese, being 針鼠(harinezumi), the first Kanji meaning "needle" and the 2nd meaning "mouse". This means that even Sega never understood the origin of their own mascot when Sonic 4 was being made.
Thought it was just an ascended meme (also Mr. Needlemouse just sounds cooler than Mr. Hedgehog)
@@kodakasaur9518 It may sound cool but it doesn't change the fact that it's wrong. I'm not really fond of mistranslations being considered gospel when there's an obvious flaw. Granted I also don't think having a better translation saves the plot of something (such as Metroid: Other M) but it's important to acknowledge stuff like that.
Sonic 4, the beginning of the dreadful dry meta decade of cringe. Thanks, game journalists and whiny sonic fans. 😃👎🏽👎🏽👎🏽
Thankfully it seems like they are finally stepping away from that. I just hope sonic frontiers is gonna be good.
"dreadful dry meta decade of cringe" Colors and Gens are better than Shadow and 2006 but ok.
@@ikagura loser
@@d3-penguin954 why am I subscribed to you
@@ikaguraThis "meta era" only has 3 good games, colors (though now more fans are getting sick of it) Generations, and Mania. Classic and Adventure/"dArK" era games have more good games. Sure some were mediocre, but at least they tried instead of playing it safe for the dumb kidz.
I'd rather a wtf game like Shadow over Colors (great soundtrack) because of how unironically silly it is. Plus P-06 made me appreciate 06 more, gameplay and level design wise.
Meh, i enjoyed Sonic 4 episode 1 and 2. I noticed the second one was more polished and better, but episode 1 presented some ideas that i really liked. Plus the music in both episodes is pretty much perfect. You can vibe to every single one of the themes.
Thank you for making this video!
The full story of Sonic 4 Episode 1 is actually a tragedy. It was originally just a neat little project Dimps was working on, but SEGA and Sonic Team pressured them into making it "Sonic 4" and gave them two years to make it a success while also porting it to all modern consoles and mobile devices, severely hindering their ability to make a focused experience.
Genuinely feel bad for them.
Yeah Dimps are hated on too much. They made the Advance games, Rush and DS Colours, they were fine.
19:05 So Metal Sonic is a bad bitch?
*yes*
Hey Eldarin, I don’t know if you remember me, but I’ve always loved your videos.
This one seemed really, really negative though and unlike your typical content. Usually, you’re such a positive force for Sonic and the development of the games, so I’m a bit surprised. Regardless, thank you very much for making this video and for all of your hard work!
Hey Dennis! I appreciate the constructive criticism and ofc I remember your support of the channel. I know it may have sounded rather negative but I was trying to give the perspective of the normies view and reviewers view (not mine) on sonic at the time of 2009 when discussing the other games, atop this sonic 4 did have quite the controversial development cycle. I do plan to also go more in-depth with a few of the games I discussed in the video comes the future, but heed not I have not turned into the jaded cynical CZcamsr...well... let's see how sonic frontiers turns out hahaha. Anyways, hope you are doing well and appreciate the kind words about the hard work/thanks on the video. If there are any other questions let me know!
@@Eldarin Cynicism is the only way to appreciate Sonic
@@ikagura yeah keep telling yourself that, kid..
@@Eldarin - Thanks for your reply. I can understand how you felt and I appreciate you replying to clarify things to me. You’re always so good at staying in touch with your community! Thank you so much!
@@rankrodent2772 calling me kid but I guess you're not that old either.
Sonic 4 ep 1 frustrated me so much with its jank levels and special stages. I was so mad, that I did it all in one sitting because I didn't want to play it anymore. Never bothered with episode 2
If Sonic 4 destroyed nostalgia then I guess everything after was desecrating the corpse of nostalgia
Episode 1 was bad
Episode 2 was okay
I was so excited about the game when it was announced. Then it came out. Then Episode 2 was introduced with big gameplay changes and I was like... eh, but it's still "Sonic 4?" I have yet to complete Episode 2.
The problem with the music was the soundfont. The actual compositions were great
The story of the Sonic CD remaster's pretty neat in of itself because it basically amounted to Taxman dropped a proof of concept trailer, followed by a bunch of comments in the Sega blog going "Sega, hire this man!".
Sad to see this unfinished but we needed to move on to bigger and better things
It's funny to me that the one Sonic 4 reference in Sonic Generations was the Super Sonic theme. It starts with the first riff from Live and Learn... but then it plays the Super Sonic theme from Sonic 4 instead XD
Shout out to xearching for sounds channel on CZcams for showcasing all the amazing music that a lot of retro video game composers were inspired by. Katsumi horii project...you're welcome!
My favourite bit about the Sonic 4 drama was the "AKnotholeResident" reveal trailer reaction. I wonder if anyone remembers that rabbit hole.