Modern Trek's Hideous Holograms (and what to do INSTEAD)
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2024
- Modern attempts at Star Trek have fallen somewhere between painfully bland and downright hideous. And this is most noticeable in its awful holographic interfaces. Star Trek has AMAZING holographic technology, so why are shows like Discovery and Picard using such dated holographic interfaces? Let's explore alternatives.
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/ echenry - Zábava
It’s very cool but I feel this tech from a narrative point of view was a mistake. Literally everything can be done by a device that fits in your palm.
It could very easily become a trap that solves literally every narrative problem.
But I think if you approached it in the right way, you could easily introduce limitations to keep the stories interesting. Limitations on the size or strength of holographic projections, for instance. For instance, maybe the reverse-engineered mobile emitter can't make holograms that can carry any weight (which would negate some of my suggestions, but I'd be fine with that). Or the holograms have a massive power drain, and can't last very long (or are very easily-detected by enemy sensors). Lots of options to keep stories fresh and to keep the tension alive.
@@ECHenry I'm imagining a scene where a ship is taking massive damage. The captain/helmsman hits a control and the blasted out sections are 'restored' via mounted hologram emitter. These holographic sections also take hits, and as you suggested in your comment, power drain, on par with shield systems. Heck, you could even use such a system as a particularly exotic ablative armor. Thank you for the awesome content!
@@ECHenry Or hacking, right? I’m not super familiar with Star Trek, but have we seen holograms get hacked?
@@ZER-sc3pc the doc from equinox had his ethics removed, they did the same with voyagers doc. The potato people hacked into and manipulated the Doc as well.
almst like its the future
Oh god the holographic legs are unfathomably cursed
I want that as a gif
I was just about to comment that lol Fukkin wacky in the extreme XD
@@monkeymonk666 needs the TOS theme music played over it.
there was a really generic anime i watched recently called mardock scramble where the main villain used a force field as a leg after his real one got blown off in a gunfight
A completely holographic EVA suit?
Like the ‘life support belts’ from TAS?
Like Gaurdians of the Galaxy Vol. 2?
Considering how often those suits fail, a standard AVA suit with a holographic backup might make more sense.
Oh no, electro magnetic interference... And now I have no suit.
Nah, where the fun in that.
Imagine being a native to a planet and (because by some starfleet hijinks they aren't hiding themselves) you see this 5:03 coming towards you
It's only Tuesday, and I already know that is the funniest thing I'll see all week.
That needs to be a GIF.
@@Idazmi7 we have one, on our discord
Best laught of the week
@@catfish552 Ayyy it's Tuesday for me too
This seems like a writing nightmare. This is why some of the only Holograms that I like a Sci-Fi or the ones from Star Wars, because they remind me of CRT TVs, and are otherwise completely useless as anything other than a communication tool. Also you know, being able to hold ian McDairmid in the palm of my hand
man i want this style of communication ASAP, so that me and the boys can pretend to be dark lords all the time.
I disagree as a sci-fi writer. It gives you so many potential avenues to explore, and you can introduce limitations to curb how far you can go with it. It doesn't make sense to view a plot tool with so much potential as an obstacle and replace it with a generic sensibility that everyone else in the genre has.
Well … then they just become so geeky. CRT scanlines are so retro. They don't expand the imagination and imagine what could happen.
This is basically a Star Trek version of the omnitool from Mass Effect
Except it has the potential to actually be used.
I was gonna comment something like this. The omnitool is one of the most amazing yet plausible items in all of mass effect. I still want the actual collectable item.
Or the contents of slaver boxes from Larry Nivens works. Read his wonderful Neutron Star.
Every sci-fi series needs to stop doing this. I'm so sick of blue hologram interfaces at this point
Especially when they're just thrown into the plot, just because the writers think: "we need it, becase every other sci-fi has it already" and in the end every sci-fi is way to similar.
I am tired of them, but there is a reason they use them. You can show the actor's face AND what they're doing at the same time.
@@Harabeck not good enough especially for Star Trek, even if you don't talk politics the current Star Trek is unimaginative and repetitive, they're just recycling and plagiarizing the plots of other sci-fi stories and this unimaginative use of hologram technology is the perfect example, not saying that the mobile emitter technology wouldn't break story telling in Star Trek just that the 1980's and 90' writers did a better job of using it in the stories, and the modern writers need to do better
@@drewjohnson-85 so,all of that if false. Taking plots from other works is a backbone of the franchise and the writers in the TNG era were way worse at writing around technology. The TNG era writers regularly made 2 huge mistakes in writing technology that the new writers have managed to avoid: namely they allowed technology the audience can't understand to create conflict as well as to resolve conflict. These are two of the biggest mistakes a writer because they rob the conflict of any sense of meaning of dramatic tension.
@@silentdrew7636 Check what I said, I said nothing about drawing inspiration from a work, if done right I’ll even let you get away with cutting and pasting the entire script of a scene from another work, How do I know I would, because I can quote the end of Dam Busters Word for Word because it’s the end of Star Wars a New Hope, The Mandalorian, and Stargate SG-1 also have similar levels of inspiration, my problem with New Trek is they do nothing with new with it, Picard’s story was handled much better in Mass Effect, and I remind you that even there the whole robot rebellion Is the reason for the Reapers existence was controversial, as for New Trek ability to deal with conflict resolution better, well when you’re a dumb action series you have more leeway to fix things than an attempt at highbrow drama that is admittedly is being held back by the ego of it’s creator. The facts don’t change, the show runners are lazy or incompetent and so they use ideas like this stupid hologram interface trick that we see in every modern version of science fiction without even bothering to make it Star Trek style.
This is why star trek is soft sci-fi as opposed to hard sci-fi. It introduced interesting concepts but it doesn't properly extrapolate their effect on the larger world outside of a given plot.
It started fairly hard, but has gotten softer over the years, especially nu-trek
@@cybersquire I feel it was already pretty soft very early on, it's just that certain aspects of it were hard. But the show was already giving us all powerful beings and having them fly to the centre of the galaxy and back
actual Visual Hard-sci fi Media (Movies,Videogames and TV) is pretty Rare. even the creators of the Expanse Dont consider their Show Hard-Sci-fi.
ToS was a Western 🤠 in Spaaaaaace!
What the hack is wrong with you guys and what is that weird talk about hard and soft? Doesnt make any sense to me!
I couldn't agree more. Yes we all know that power-creep makes writing difficult scenarios for characters harder, but clever writing and sci-fi work around explanations have always been a staple of the genre, even in Startrek.
There's no reason to not have this fantastic aspect of the franchise go completely unused or just completely misused the way it has been. The possibilities are endless, and so too would be the story telling. Put logical constraints where needed so that you don't always have a Deus Ex Machina for every situation; but for the love of God use them in some capacity!
A few constraints are power and processing capacity would work. The Mobile emitter can be limited in both if away from coms range of the ship. This would also make physical shelters useful because they have lower energy drainage.
i think this is a narrow minded view of star trek. the premise of the show is technology can fix everything, science over everything. the warp drive and food synthesizers were the solutions to problems in the 60 when we hadnt gone to space yet. they had to think how would we solve these problems? adding the hologram technology doesnt mean you can always pull it out as an ex machina. the romulans create counter hologram technology and give it to the klingons. both techs become so ubiquitous that you cant just have hologram ships and soldiers. cuz they can just be deactivated. starships can have holographic consoles, but still need real ones in case the ship loses power. stories can still be told. but you just have greater technology. Commander Data is the same way. a ton of the time they had to come up with ways to incapacitate Data cuz otherwise he could just stop them.
the technology is too incredible to be sitting on the sidelines, is his point i believe.
@@omg_RANCORS that's not what star trek is about. It's about examining humanity. The technology is almost irrelevant.
There is a reason to not use this in a story.
It's stupid. Please explain how projected photons to make a picture is going to create a physical object that will protect me from the vacuum of space. How is a hologram projected from a wall going to reach inside a container? How is a hologram going to make food for me to eat? This is just nonsensical magic thinking trying to be "science".
Like current socialist thinking.
@@dirus3142 I hate to break it to you but a lot of science FICTION concepts are infeasible by modern understanding. Also the video didn't say anything about holograms protecting you from the vacuum of space (only from hazardous surface environments), reaching inside containers, or making food to eat.
One word: Reliability. One rogue EM surge and that holographic whatever is gone.
Yeah, and? That same surge will knock out your communicators, tricorders and phasers leaving you effectively helpless anyway.
And a run, and a run, and a riggity run
@@GoranXII You know what it wouldn't knock out though? A shelter, a ladder, knives, shovels, survival gear, EV suits.
Just remember that what a mobile emitter could do would be limited by available power. And a mobile emitter wouldn't have the same ability to use replicators to manipulate matter like a holodeck.
There are a lot of ways in which Trek technology is massively underused.
Imagine a starship like the Prometheus, with holo-emitters throughout...install enough emitters inside and outside of a ship - maybe even "print" thousands or millions of microemitters onto or into bulkheads. Just imagine There are a lot of ways in which Trek technology is massively underused.
Imagine a starship like the Prometheus, with holo-emitters throughout...install enough emitters inside and outside of a ship - maybe even "print" thousands or millions of microemitters onto or into bulkheads. Just imagine how infinitely flexible a starship could become! Every room basically becomes a holodeck.
Immediately, every room's environment becomes alterable. You can have different atmospheres, pressures, temps, gravities, etc - which was already possible anyway, both inside and outside of a holodeck (I'm fact that environmental and life-support machinery is what a holodeck likely uses anyway to manipulate environments) but anyway, now you add holodeck capacities to that, to make any environment safely possible aboard a starship.
Like you said you could have holographic furniture and consoles (instantly reconfigurable) but you could do instant repairs of damaged areas like that automated repair station in Enterprise's "Dead Stop" did. And also like in that episode, you wouldn't have to walk to a replicator terminal to get food or clothes or tools or any other item - because such items could be materialized right in front of or next too whoever requested them...even materialize a drink right in someone's hand, or clothes right on their body.
Because remember - holodecks don't just utilize lights and forcefields, but replicator abilities too (as established in the very first TNG episode) - so an advanced type of holo-replicator-emitter could also materialize solid objects, if given access to a store of base matter to draw from (everything from pure elements to simple molecules) that can be manipulated to form solid objects; clothes, food, etc.
So when you repair a bulkhead, if the replicator function is employed, that can be a solid physical bulkhead if desired.
You could also make holographic or replicated alterations to a starship, adding or subtracting bulkheads, equipment, making the starship larger or smaller depending on the power and other resources available.
Basically you have an, in not infinitely, extremely flexible starship constrained only by available power, base resources (bulk matter to work with) and the imagination of the crew. (By computer capacity too, but computer technology in the 24th century is so vast that's not even a problem. And if it was, just replicate some additional computers.
You would have, I'm essence, what I call a "holographic starship" - but one that isn't purely holographic. (And I will get back to that idea at the end.)
Remember when future Janeway taught the Voyager crew how to make that projectable holographic batmobile armor over the regular hull? Stuff like that.
AND...replicators themselves utilize *transporter* technology.
A simplified version of it, but DS9 established that with some tweaking, they could be converted into a regular transporter. So an advanced purpose-build holo-transporter-replicator-emitter tied into the ship's main transporter system could turn every room on a ship into a sight-to-sight and ship-to-surface-to-ship transporter room. No need to walk to a dedicated transporter room (which already doesn't seem to be an absolute necessity anyway.)
It seems that on Discovery, Starfleet and the remnant Federation in the 32nd century utilize their programable matter to do pretty much the same things as I described. To do everything that the ubiquitous holodeck technology I described could do, but with reconfigurable matter.
But these also was mention by Tilly, in Discovery season 3 of her scanning ships inside of the Starfleet/Federation HQ that had hulls that were almost primarily "made up of holographic forcefields", so it looks like that also use this enhanced holodeck technology as well, along with the programable matter.
@Fremen that doesn't apply in this case, as the EM surge that knocks out your holo-emitter will also knock out your phasers, tricorders and communicators.
The more I think about it the more Star Trek has painted themselves into a corner with all their super useful technology. I mean imagine dropping a replicator down on some asteroid in a totally empty solar system and just telling it to make a fleet of a trillion starships. Then check back in 6 months. The next time the Borg attack they are going to be in for quite a surprise.
Replicators do require power, and binding tritanium probably takes a lot of power. Starfleet has a ton of ships, but when they're like paper compared to the Borg, and the Borg also have replicators, it gets sort of nullified. It is a little astounding that they don't have Von Neumann replicators, but maybe the other species get pissy when robots try and turn their moons into starships.
It's not useful technology. It's magic thinking hand-waving disguised as being clever.
How many away missions could have been resolved by teleporting an unmanned drone with a miniature replicator to the surface?
@@dirus3142 Helloooo, you just described Star Trek in a nutshell! ;-)
They got around that by saying that Some materials can't be replicated.
Much like the transporter some limit must be imposed to keep somebody from solving the plot accidentally
Power and projection resolution or stored memory would all be good options for keeping tension
Oh hard logic. Like how does a projected image of a jack, actually work to life an object?
It doesn't, because it's a dumb idea.
@@dirus3142 Exactly. It's a glorified force field projector, so having to look like anything is unnecessary.
@@HeatRaver It would help with personal understanding wtf it is doing at any given time.
I would point out that the "tools" one is kind-of already solved prior to the mobile emitter. It's just never really talked about. The Exocomps are about the size of a basketball and have a micro-replicator on them that allows them to make & destroy tools as needed. Since Exocomps are more than just that replicator, it's reasonable to assume that the replicator is smaller than the Exocomp itself, and likely just as portable. Replication also wouldn't be a constant power drain just to maintain the tool.
The portable holographic projector isn't shown as limited in how much energy it has available and it's a tiny badge that magically does everything. For the application EC Henry is talking about, which is "we need this unexpected kind of tool now", it's a pretty good choice.
Replicators are way more limited than people think. They cannot create stuff out of thin air - all they can do is reorganize existing matter. That's still very powerful, but it does mean you still need to refine the iron ore to make your knife, for example. Which is kind of a good thing anyway, since if they created matter out of thin air, their power requirements would be outrageous - as in, creating that one little knife would take all the fuel available on a spaceship. The usual hologram rooms seem to be relatively energy intensive in VOY, but they're on a completely different level, even if running non-stop. And replicators are repeatedly shown to be unable to produce anything beyond the simplest machinery - the Federation still uses conventional mining, refining and manufacturing. Replicators are mainly used as a luxurious item to make long trips on spaceships more bearable by allowing you to make a fresh Earl Grey instead of relying on rations (weirdly, they seem to be reasonably capable of reorganizing food matter into something acceptable, though to many certainly not preferable to "real" food) :)
It seem like the current creators of Star trek are looking at other Sci Fi to inspiration instead of the actual franchise they are creating for. Generic is not fun or interesting.
Both JJ Abrams and Kurtzman have admitted in interviews that they were never big fans of Star Trek. They just wanted to make Star Wars with the Trek name slapped on. And that’s what we got. Generic moronic schlock for the dumb masses.
This modern _NuTrek_ trash has nothing to do with real Star Trek.
STD to me, is like doing a sidequel "Sharpe", series but the brits have pith helmets and Lee-Martini Rifles, and still trying to tell us "No no, it's still set in the Napoleanic War".
STD (and Picard) is basically "Mass Effect", with a dash of "The Expanse".
STD "starfleet" uniforms. Blue with metallic trim = Systems Alliance from Mass Effect
Everyone uses holocomms = Mass Effect
Anti-synth hatred and eldritch horror "old machines" = Mass Effect
Thwippy fwippy holocontrols = Mass Effect and The Expanse (and every sci-fi since Minority Report.). Where's the hard-light configurable on the fly consoles, instead?
Bridge of the _La Sienta_ = Rocinante flight-deck, but larger
Spanish-named merc starship = The Expanse
Sweary Admiral-lady = Poor-mans Asvarala (The Expanse)
Edgelordery = The Expanse
Gunnar001 calm down lil guy
@@fifthaccount5031 Oh I’m calm, kiddo.
@@Gunnar001 That's what every generation says about the new trek & new star wars released after they grew up.
Now go yell at more clouds and tell kids to get off your lawn
When it comes to the mobile emitter, maybe it has a limit on "mass" or "longevity" that it could be used for? And that's presuming they're able to reverse-engineer it perfectly.
It would be nice for shows like Picard to be more creative with hologram use though.
Two limitation: pattern buffer and energy output. you can not make something requiring more power than stored in the device, and you can not have multiple patterns in its buffer if those are very complex. The mobile emitter can be "occupied" by one artificial person at the same time, we have seen that many times.
@@meleardil And? I can think of a dozen things much simpler than a human that could pit on there. A tent, a knife, a spade, an environmental suit, a bird-like UAV, etc. And all bar the tent are considerably smaller than a human.
@@GoranXII That was my point... you can use it as a toolkit, in that case the "tools" are limited by the power output of the emitter. Or you can use it as a backup team member, but in that case it can not be anything else, and the person is predetermined. Can not hold multiple matrix's.
@@meleardil Mobile Emitters are pretty small though, you could stick a hunch of them in your pocket.
@@GoranXII That is true... it must be very complex... also... weird that it can be transported, but CANT be replicated. voyager NEVER had a backup of it.
So, the manufacturing might be a limitation of the numbers. Or not... but still, weir, it was NEVER replicated. There are some tech that cant, because the quantum state is important part of the design.
The most silly thing is those transparent touch screens with tiny fonts.
I mean, how stupid is it to make a display that has contrast depending on what's behind it? Sure, use that kind of thing for an actual 3D display where the benefits outweigh the cons... but for a run of the mill touch screen? Seriously? :D Though to be fair, TNG's Okudagrams were already pretty silly in most usages...
The intersection of Holographic, transporter, and Replicator technology means that star trek is nearly always on the precipice of a technical revolution that would completely change the nature of life as we know it - all they need is an engineer to reverse engineer all of the "malfunction" episodes and put them into practice.
Imagine a whole away team of will (thomas) rikers running around, duplicated by the transporter, then being reintegrated on beamup (tuvix) and holding any excess patterns that couldn't be integrated in the holodeck (our man bashir), storing them indefinitely in the pattern buffer (Montgomery Scott) or letting them wander around the ship with mobile emitters. All of these things have happened accidentally, which means the conditions could be reproduced, industrialized, or weaponized by any motivated engineer. Ethics are only a concern for governments that /have/ ethics.
2:25 We had that episode in TNG ("A matter of perspective") where they holographically recreated an experimental device based on the blueprints and the hologram behaved exactly like the real thing and interacted with real forces coming in from outside the holodeck, even though this involved obscure cutting-edge physics they didn't understand.
If we're going to take that seriously, if holographic simulations are so perfectly detailed that they'll reproduce even unknown emergent interactions with weird sci-fi radiation, then you should be able to plug in the schematics for a tricorder and get a functioning holographic one. Or make a holographic antigravity emitter.
I got the feeling that they introduced "programmable matter" into Discovery to avoid the story issues something as powerful as portable holograms everywhere would cause, and it also works around the vehicle issue you mentioned where holograms wouldn't have the actual functionality but this stuff would. I actually thought they took the criticism of the crap holographic UI on board when they introduced all the fancy far future stuff with the consoles that physically change to what you need at a given time, that part was literally what you suggested in the previous video just without using holograms.
No. The creators of Discovery don't care about Star Trek, and just make stuff up to look cool. Then fail. Don't project any clever deeper meaning onto it.
@@dirus3142 pretty sure that's not the case, but okay.
The dimension of what is projected of the hollow emitter would be limited in size or would become unstable. If it was anything else then you would have the crew say "hey doc make yourself the size of godzilla and see if you can spot if there's a village up ahead."
HOLO - its holo not hollow. although the combination of light and forcefields can be considered hollow inside....
Mass Effect has fisical interactive hologarms, Shepard used his holo to make a knife from left hand
The blade is made of superheated and hardened omni-gel, which forms via mass effect fields
5:03 congratulations you have created the most hilarious thing ever
Just came to me: This would also be a narrative solution to the 'Redshirt' trope. Instead of having a random crew member (And added cast) bite the dust, just have the 'same' Holographic Redshirt die. Granted, if overused, it would drain the tension out of most dangerous encounters, but could have storytelling potential.
Talking about holographic crew members, if the Doctor was recognized as a sapient being, wouldn't it have made sense for high tech sapient holograms to become Federation citizens, and subsequently on full-time Starfleet crewmembers if they wished? Why didn't Discovery (or Picard) meet any of such personnel? It would be both low cost AND a way to flex the CGI by having them perform holographic tricks, like multiplying limbs.
Because they're all 4edgy5me, and would much rather kill of cast characters for easy drama than hard decisions for real drama
Holograms are just way too powerful to be even interesting.
There is almost no problem that can't be solved with "let's make X appear".
I mean at this point why not have the entirety of the away party be only holograms ?
It would be the same as having a show with only Q characters
You give it limits. Again, this takes imagination, and turning the problem on each side. You can think of limits in terms of volume and complexity, which is what Terminator 2 chose. It was still too "all powerful" but not in a way that viewers constantly remark upon. The drawbacks didn't deter from the upsides.
As someone who has just stated watching Star Trek (midway through TOS) I think that what you are saying is interesting, but ultimately it seems confusing to the audience. Why is there suddenly a car there? Why does the car have legs? I think it could be well explained but it also seems way overpowered and could make it boring because you just have whatever you want whenever you want it.
I would tend to agree though the generic holographic displays should be restricted if not retired completely. The Kelvin timeline managed to incorporate holograms much more practically and sparingly. Kurtzman really needs to do his homework on Abrams directorial style because it seems like he is trying to imitate it but doesn’t quite get why it worked then but not now.
@@Shapes_Quality_Control Kurtzman wrote Star Trek 2009 and Star Trek Into Darkness, so it seems that without J.J. Abrams he can't use interesting technologies in Star Trek correctly.
@@bennyfisher9157 Its a directors mindset of being able to tell a story visually that I think Kirkman is lacking. I think back to the two times off the top of my head holograms were used in 09 and into darkness. The first was when Nero was showing Pike an image of his wife. He could have just pulled up one of those screens with all the chords we see the romulans use throughout the ship. Why did Abrams use a hologram then? Because Nero’s wife is dead and he is talking of the ghosts that continue to haunt him and drive him towards his grim aim. The transparent hologram of his wife is meant to visually communicate to the audience that she is like a ghost to Nero; dead and immaterial but real enough to cause Nero to go mad trying to save her.
The other time was in into darkness where Marcus pulls up a three dimensional image of the new torpedo to show the room. A totally practical use of the technology we’ve actually seen before in early TNG. They don’t use it all the time because why would they. We actually see Kirk using the 2 dimensional holographic screens earlier in the film. Had it been a projected and generic 3 dimensional screen that hovered above the desk it would have been uncomfortable to Kirk, distracting to the rest of the meeting, and he couldn’t use it with any subterfuge.
I’m going on a rant now.... point being you can have cool things in your futuristic space opera but it’s important to keep it in service to the action happening on screen.
@@Shapes_Quality_Control Good point.
It bugs me that the EMH says "hand me that tool over there... I'm waiting" when he could just make one or turn his hand into one.
In that context, he's limited by coding as he's the first generation EMH.
I also remember seeing him wash his hands, and I was thinking "couldn't you just turn off the forcefield making your hands solid so all the dirt and germs would just fall off?"
He could turn it into something that looks like a tricorder, but couldn't make it *be* a tricorder.
I feel like they realized that when you reeeeeally look into how earlier Star Trek does Holograms, they're kinda like the superman of technology. If they used them to their fullest potential, you kinda start running into situations where everything becomes too easy and you have to come up with arbitrary reasons why they can't just conjure up instantaneous perfect solutions to problems. Yeah with clever writing you could probably make it work, but eventually that clever writing will run out or become stale. While I'm not too much of a fan of transparent holographic displays because they're silly and hard to use, having holographic technology that's bordering on Q-esque capabilities is also not something that I think would be good for the series.
Aaarrrgggg, stop using so much logic, you're making me think of all the POSSIBILITIES!!!!!!!
In the event that the ship's reactor leaks, killing the entire crew except for one guy stuck in stasis, and then gets lost in space for 3 million years, the ship could create a holographic recreation of his bunkmate to keep him from going insane.
The exo comps have miniature replicators specifically to build tools on the fly. Combining that with holographic tools would be amazing since holographic allow for huge and complex mechanical tools (like a car) and the replicator can handle tech tools like all the various scanners or true antigravity. The combo would definitely allow for something like a holographic shuttle with true flight ability.
The real limit would be power. In TOS they could barely reach orbit on the power of a few phaser pistol batteries, so a hologram-shuttle would probably be worse off since it would need to be generated by a single hand held tool. That’s why the car is such a great idea, wheels are extremely efficient, and if the terrain is really bad just make legs. It has to still be more efficient than flying. Although winged flight wouldn’t be as bad as antigravity/rocket flight.
Personally I don’t think post TNG could make a comm badge size mobile emitter but it could still work. If it’s just for simple tools like a ladder then it doesn’t need any of the thinking capacity of the Doctor’s emitter. Fidelity doesn’t even need to be good either, it could use 1999 level 3D graphics and still be functional. Even with a really basic emitter you could have something like a powered exoskeleton, and a bulked up battery would turn it into proper power armor.
My main thought was an entire security team as mobile emitters. Just keep them all near the weapon storage locker and have it connected to life sign scans if any extra life signs pop up have them activate and deal with the threat.
As a visual FX artist, I can say I roll my eyes every time I'm asked to do these holograms. They're so overdone at this point.
Hologram a burger going into my mouth please
Watching that shuttle fly across the land is so satisfying. I could watch that on a loop.
A holographic "shell" that could "walk" unconscious or incapacitated crew to a safe distance.
So basically, you are all for the weirdness that is holographic starships, ala Star Trek Online.
My headcanon was always that one day ships would have an entire backup crew based on the normal crew.
And that is how Red Dwarf started.
Why bother building a ship at all if you have holoemitters? Just bolt down a superstrong or multiple holoemitters to a deck plate and turn the thing on--voila! Instant holo-ship.
@@user-nf9xc7ww7m
Because it’s SPACE. Power-draining anomalies are more common than g-type stars.
@@SchneeflockeMonsoon
An easy fix. Just use a single holodeck and activate a holoship and around. Even if the power goes out, they're still safe within the confines of a yellow and black checkered box.
@@pseudonym9599 Red Dwarf was a satire of sci fi. The holographic stuff in Star Trek is mistaking Red Dwarf for serious technology.
It kills me to see these little Adobe After Effects premade effect kits used in Star Trek. It was always so quick to point out that the old tactile ways still had there charm and place. There was such care in the Next Generation to show the differences between the user interfaces for the Federation, Klingons, and the Romulans.
I've also had a Star Trek fan fic rolling around in my head for a few years, and the premise would have the characters using a state of the art ship (stolen from Section 31) that uses holograms for every room on the ship. The ship could be bigger on the inside. But combining Holographic and Replicator technology they could create vehicles, battle armor, weapons, tactile tactical displays and all kinds of goodies.
Imagine a fleet of Hologra- oh wait they already done that from "PICARD"
lol
Picard is also trash.
One thing, I noticed is often overlooked (especialy in regard's to the doctors emitter in voyager) in Star Trek, is mass. Sure, that's not an issue, if your hollogram is projected from an immovable wall that acts as counter force. But with a mobile emitter, having almost zero weight on a large surface area would create some interesting problems to deal with.
Maybe not quite as much with shelters, wich can simply be ancored deep into the ground, but having something mobile like vehicles or holografic personel, might be more difficult.
Don’t know how powerful a mobile hologram emitter would be, but I feel like a functioning car or a virtual person would be a bit much despite the fact that I haven’t seen much Star Trek. Maybe the power of multiple emitters are needed for those.
Voyager has a holographic Doctor for all but part of the first episode. Is does take a while to give him a Mobile emitter. The limits on the emitter seem to be resolution of the projection. They don’t really suggest that you could make the holographic lungs with a Mobile emitter. Those lungs were very limited as well.
Disclaimer: Only half way through.
So, the bane of a screenwriter's existance: Deus Ex Holo-Emitter.
I like the limitless applications, but for an entertainment programme? The only problem would be energy compensation, and that can be scaled according to the threat need of the week.
Auto-deployable Pocket Commissar. Memes aside, seriously think about it...
All I can think of is a Warhammer 40K commissar who is just waiting to shoot me in the face the very second I hesitate to obey an order
We need to get you hired by the teams that produce Star Trek and Star Wars as a design consultant. Your ideas and knowledge of the lore and technology that they seem to forget about would make so many fans happy and really revitalize both franchises.
I found Rios' holographic crew an interesting idea in the first season of Picard, and they were well used. Even Picard's recreated lounge was a nice touch, and they definitely weren't the janky flickering holograms of other scifi.
I think you run the risk of having a mobile emiter that makes back up, or deploys small buildings as taking the tension out of stories. The same reason we dont see the transporter being used to fix everything from aging to bullet wounds. (Athough IIRC a medical transporter for fixing shrapnel wounds was cut from First Contact)
How about a holographic, extendable docking collar? For two ships meeting in space when there is nothing around (radiation, energy fields) that would disrupt holograms. It would cost far less energy than transporting everything! After all, ships already have mooring beams (look it up in the ST:TNG tech manual) it's like the ropes you see ships using when tied to a pier, except based on tractor beam tech.
Two ships can maneuver alongside each other, then use their mooring beams on each other for more fine control, to make sure there is no motion AT ALL between the ships, then use holograms to make a holographic bridge between the two ships, then the personnel and equipment can just walk across (or even have a moving walkway)
I love you videos and the topics you discuss, they’re always an immediate watch for me
You deserve more subs. Keep it up love your vids
In my RPG campaigns there is a improved versión of the EMH but the mobile emitter is bigger and have add the medical tricorder. As you pointed in point 2, somethings need the tricorder to be there because even if you can imitate a tricorder must exist a limitation based on the "emulation" part.
Futhermore, if you need a shelter the holographic emitther have to be more big than the "mobile emitter" and with a power supply in order not to collapse during a snow storm or worse.
By the way I solve the "mobile emitter" TV flaw (must be visible for the audience) in order to be more effective and protected so they can't "loose in a 'bump'" with other object.
holographic technology is awesome, specially if want to seal the entrance of the cave haha..
Your video give me some ideas for my RPG, thanks!!
The idea of a lone(or nearly alone) survivor of a Federation starship using the hologram emitter in his badge to basically make tools and a base and all that is brilliant. I mean he could use the emitter to make the basic equipment that then lets him make more advanced equipment that then lets him make even more advanced equipment that lets him leave or call for rescue. It would be marvelous.
It also fits my enjoyment of the trope of a person crash landed somewhere going from nothing to a whole advanced civilization thanks to their crafting ability.
Dude, I can't believe you haven't mentioned the most dangerous idea! That of course being, the holographic crusher. Just create an invisible box that slowly encloses on a victim. Or smash them to bits. Or throw them into the sky. Really a lot of gruesome options here.
Or a paper thin holographic blade with edges that taper down to nearly immeasurable thinness, which can vary dramatically in length, width, shape, become completely transparent, and flick in any direction the user desired, while being nearly weightless or drastically altering it's center of mass to produce ideal results against whatever it struck.
Shields. In one of the beginning episodes of Star Trek Voyager Cesca needs to beam down into a radioactive environment and she brings with her a portable Forcefield that she wears and it’s about as big as a hockey puck. If they would use those more often they would save on so many injuries. You could wear one of those in battle or when your shuttlecraft crashes. They don’t wear seatbelts or helmets in the shuttle craft and that seems to be the major point of their injuries. A portable Forcefield would make for some very interesting episodes. I also agree with your hologram ideas. You could easily make an hour long episode just on ideas for hologram technology
Just another fascinating, engaging video. Love your channel.
Certainly a technology at risk to become a catch-all solution to everything like sonic screwdriver though it would be great to see unique solutions result from it. Honestly, the Ardra-style eye UI would be a good fit for this sort of tool. TNG even had an episode with the probe/drone controlled essentially through a VR suit that is another vast well of potential one snazzy scifi usage.
EC Henry, that thing at 5:03 with the legs
is the scariest thing I've ever seen on Star Trek
LOL
Well done very interesting to think about.
Indeed...
Becoming invisible, or detect invisibility with light you mentioned.
Multitool extentions, etc
Infinit possibilities !)
I had never thought of that.
Dear Mr EC Henry,
Please forewarn us being dropping that hover vehicle with "legs". Laughed so hard I nearly died
I think one of the novel have one of the experimental ship be manned mostly by skeletal crew, the rest of the position are filled with holographic crew as needed. The ship serve as medical ship, and would activate tons of EMH-like program when required. When the ship got boarded, they activate tons of holographic security personal to deal with boarder (using Gorn as template, if I remember correctly.)
Replicators and hologram are some of the most incredible tech available in Star Trek but limited by narratives every episode need. In some sci-fi open-world survival games, survivors usually have some sort of magical replicators that help to produce tools and parts. In Subnautica we can build a whole base with just a handheld replicator while with a bigger device we can build a submarine and even an interstellar-travelling rocket. The game has replicators as a standard device in every escape pod while Star Trek shuttles carry boxed rations.
5:04 Ok, I nearly spat out my coffee laughing at that leg vehicle
On the MMO Star Trek, you have a narrative mission who take place on a prison. A large portion of guards are Holograms who can fight with their own weaponries and armors.
Another use of hologram can be preventing death on a physical and neurological level.
I remember when it was pointed out that the Galaxy class had a way smaller crew than would be needed for a ship of that size. Federation holo tech could easily eliminate at least half the organic crew needed for most ships. Hell, just ship security could be streamlined down to three people: a security chief, his/her number two and a security systems operator. In the event of an enemy boarding action the boarders would find themsleves facing redshirts appearing out of nowhere wielding weapons that mow them down while not damaging the ship.
I had to revisit these videos with a friend. The latest series of Batman Beyond comics introduced hard-light hologram technology. The villain Lumos, built a mega-tall skyscraper out of "Light."
EMCH: emergency medical combat hologram. Each away team member wears an emitter that automatically deploys upon their incapacitation. Can deploy a holographic shield, signal to the ship, provide a lock on beacon, and assist the ship doctor upon beaming into sick bay.
My headcanon is that the mobile emitter was too advanced for 2380s Starfleet to reproduce, hence why we don't see it used for anything beyond sustaining the Doctor.
I think the main problem with this is the amount of energie it would take to create anything larger then just a human, like the Doc from Voyager.
IIRC even the Holodecks would only create denser matter at the spots where people interact with the hologram. Everything else is just an 3D image but without the substance.
For the mobile emiter, I think it follows a similar path of just "hardening" the parts that are needed for interaction where the rest stays just an image.
A shelter on a planet to keep atmosphere in as well as heat, etc. That would take a large amount of energie to the point where I think its easier to just beam down some replicators to create stuff on the spot, using a small energie source/reactor and local matter to be repurposed via the replicators.
Your idea of essentially a holographic swiss army knife reminds me a lot of the slaver weapon from The Animated Series. It could be good explanation for what exactly it was
I think the biggest reason that enjoying Star Trek comes with such a hefty suspension of disbelief is because there hasn't really been someone to steer the more esoteric technological aspects for the entirety of the Trek universe. With so many episodes and writers and directors, it was bound to get out of hand at some point.
Which is why most of that over the top tech stuff has been thrown out.
But hard-light consoles are atleast, a sensible idea.
1:55 That base disguised as a rock evokes a... very nostalgic feeling. It's like... the rock is telling me that it can make a Kessel Run in 12 secs.
I like these mobile emitter ideas, although I'm not sure how well it would work for larger structures -- emitters on a holodeck obviously have some reach, as the holodecks on, say, the Enterprise D are rather large, but we don't know what the max size of the mobile emitter is. But even if that particular version is roughly limited to a human-sized hologram, if Starfleet reverse-engineered it, I'd imagine they could make variants with a better range. I'd also imagine a slightly less compact version for large things or longer-term things; maybe a lantern sized emitter to function as an outpost or vehicles like you talked about, or a flashlight sized one to be things like long ladders or tools or weapons [since we know holographic weapons are just as deadly as the real thing when safeties are off]. I can imagine these units having a wide variety of applications, but the non-holographic versions would certainly be kept around -- think about how many times they got stranded where no tech worked!
Oh, and on the tricorder specifically -- I would imagine the mobile emitter has far more processing power than the TNG/DS9/VOY era tricorder, so that would probably be no problem to simulate.
As I see it, it could be the Sonic Screwdriver problem: in the classic sci-fi show Doctor Who, the main character uses a device called the Sonic Screwdriver. In the show’s classic run, whenever the character had to get out of a jam, the Sonic Screwdriver could do it. This became a problem, though, when the showrunners realized that the Sonic Screwdriver made it TOO EASY for them to get the character out of these situations; it erased the challenge, which was what people wanted to see the character overcome. I would guess that one of the reasons why Star Trek hasn’t gone all the way with its hologram technology is that reason; it would make it TOO EASY for the characters to overcome challenges.
Let's say the limitations is power and computerstrenght, so it needs a ship near by to make things, but the holograms themselves function as regulare matter. The matter might not have all the properties as the simulated material, as radioactivity, magnetism or gravity, but those are minimal problems in most cases, even though it might put a cap on how advanced the created technology can be outside of ship range.
Even with those limitatison, you could make thousands of invulnerable super soldiers with powerfull weapons, shields for the ship or instantly repair damage to the hull. The power of this tech goes far beyond what we're shown on the show or what's mentioned in the video, and in the cases where the holografical projector fails, you have tech like the replicator or teleporter that could do the same, just with matter. Why they build things at all, and just not replicate whatever they need at a moments notice is an enigma to me. Being borded? Let the ship just repell or kill them all with teleporters or holograpical walls, vacumes or extreme temperatures. There scopes are allmost endless.
Would make for poor enertainment tho, if all conflicts could be solved in seconds tho
IIRC Star Trek Online has temporary holographic crew (inc medics) for some away missions. Also, for the holographic thrust question, because holograms can operate at almost any scale, there's no reason it couldn't make anything from man size ducted fans to microscopic ramjeets that compress air to the point where component gasses detonate and produce more thrust.
Yes, you can get temporary hologram crew to help you, but you also have permanent hologram crew aboard your ship. Not going to list all the example here, but the links should give you some ideas:
sto.fandom.com/wiki/Holographic_Duty_Officers
sto.fandom.com/wiki/Holographic_Deep_Space_Nine_Bridge_Officers
It's cheaper to add CGI holographic interfaces in post rather than build real physical interfaces?
Discovery is one of the most expensive shows ever made.
What do you think is more expensive, making a table once, and putting it on set for the actors, Or constantly having to animate that table into every scene according to how the script, and the actor uses that table?
If you've never read it, I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend "Places of Exile". It's part of the "Myriad Universe" series, and is stand alone, so it doesn't require reading any other books to follow the story.
It essentially says; What if Janeway DIDN'T ally with the Borg against Species 8472, but instead found themselves crippled by 8472, and forced to "join" a delta quadrant species called the "Vostigye".
It's fantastic, and deals a bit with the holographic tech you're talking about.
The problem with the mobile emitter is that it removes one of the defining restriction of the holo-tech (can only be used in special areas) and by this make it THE ultimate tool, which can defeat every obstacle.
I think the adition of the mobile emitter was the biggest mistake VOY did storywise. "Why should I sent out crewmen on a away mission, if I can also sent a hologram?".
It also removes one of the defining drawbacks from the Doctor, his restricted area pf mobility. Removing this is like removing Krypronite from Superman.
Instead of the mobile emitter they should have upgraded the ship with additional holographic projectors to allow the doctor to enter other areas of the ship (but still be confined to the ship). They could even add holo-projectors to the Delta-Flyer, those allowing the doctor to get on an away mission, but still have to work with it restriction.
Because the story needs to happen. It's analogous to the way horror and suspense movies have to tie themselves in knots so that the plot doesn't get resolved with a simple cell phone call. Plus given the frequency with which Starfleet technology fails, I'd be much more comfortable having an actual swiss army knife and piece of rope than just a potential holographic toolbox and ladder.
Also maniacal admirals. I mean, seriously? Who screens these people for promotion? Did the UFP ever conduct a federation commission/independent inquiry on admirals? The opposition leaders need to get sacked if they don't even recommend. Useless govt...
Holographic security personnel can have laser weapons (that stuff is light-based), or you can just hand them your phaser and have them fight while you do other stuff.
The Mobile Emitter is tech from the future. Voyager only integrated it into their mission, because that mission was survival. That all being said, using that technology to advance the Federation & Starfleet would be directly against the Prime Directive, as well as the Temporal Accords. It's something JJ forgot when he made his shoot-em-ups, and something New Trek threw out with the rest of the canon.
When you consider that the mobile emitter literally had to be physically connected to the Doctor in order to do it's thing, right there is a built in limitation, and iirc the emitter also had a limited battery life as well since it was only used when the Doctor needed to leave sickbay and when it wasn't being used was sitting in a recharging station until needed.
Exactly, although of course mobile power supplies are also plentiful in Trek and different variations of holoemitters with an attached power supply or even attached generator could easily be manufactured once the fundamentals of the mobile-emitter technology were solved. Need a full sized base, then you might have to carry a backpack sized emitter or something where most of the size and mass is a portable generator, but something like a belt sized emitter where most of the mass is say a power pack could do wonders as supplementary body armor, a shock absorber, climbing harness, light source projector, and literally hundreds of other things.
You could have multiple emitters attached to one power source so that a "holosuit" could project multiple types of different holograms simultaneously from multiple points of the wearer's body, each with separate functions. It could function as a personal shield generator with multiple redundant layers since it's already working with a combination of coherent light and force fields, etc, etc.
PPE. Holograms in Trek aren't just patterns of light; they're patterns of light *and forcefields.* So imagine a mobile emitter built into the communicator badge worn by all personnel. Imagine a hull breach. Imagine that mobile emitter, before the wearer can even register the change in pressure, let alone the fact that he can see *space,* suddenly finding himself wearing a spacesuit that saves his life.
For that matter, imagine a tactical situation where, in an instant, your Away Team can go from nice and friendly and non-threatening to wearing full body armour.
Do more Trek discussion videos. Also include more Riker poses, please! 😁
I think the main problem is power and data storage/processing. The portable emitter isn't much larger than a commbadge and that only has enough power to generate an actual shield for around 10 seconds, and the Doctor requires a significant amount of storage and processing to operate.
The hypothetical combat medics and support personnel don't need to be life-like or have any advanced interpersonal skills, just a humanoid shape with limited details that can do some stuff, which would save the graphic processing for fine motor skills.
I would suggest that any portable emitter would have the Star Trek : Elite Force style transporter buffer added on to store actual tools and weapons to be used by the holograms, because I don't think a holographic phaser would have any decent sort of range.
An area of effect emitter like sickbay's holographic system would do great for hand tools, and no device created by it would need to obey any kind of physical mechanism. To scale a cliff or wall, generate a pole with a footplate to stand on and just have he footplate move up, no need to have a winch or gears.
For a video titled and promoted as "tackling issues with modern Trek's use of holograms", a lot of it seems to deal with something very loosely connected with that. And considering the repetition of transparent color holograms, most of the examples we've seen in Picard or Discovery tend to be displays or interactive screens. They show more advanced holograms in other cases, like the medical recreation of Georgiou, or the 32nd century interrogation holograms, or the bulk of what we see of the Kelpien science ship from season 3. While there could be a nearly infinite amount of potential creative uses for holograms in Star Trek, chances are that there are a lot of hard limits that prevent the technology from being used in such robust ways. Yes, some of the holograms in newer Trek shows may be a bit boring, but they tend to serve a very specific purpose in the universe: as displays. More interesting and advanced holographic systems are shown in different use cases. Given that there needs to be a specific room where such lifelike and advanced holograms can be so widely created and sustained, it might be fair to say that such technology cannot feasibly be utilized throughout a starship; but to a certain degree, I would think that programmable matter kinda acts as a good substitute for your proposed holographic bridge console, since it can take the form of whatever control(s) the user might want or need at the time. Maybe programmable matter could be the solution to a lot of these questions, without the limits of a mobile holo-emitter.
Regarding holographic vehicles and their motion-tensile traction fields. Basically, 'invisible fields that interact in the traditional manner with the surface they are on. These tensile fields could also potentially allow a vehicle to climb a wall, irrespective of shape. A more practical application would be a holo-transporter, but sadly there is one massive drawback to that concept. Energy. Unless the technology could draw its energy directly from its surroundings, and then that in itself would cause problems. Love the video.
I've liked the idea that Starfleet could use holodecks for flag plots/bridges during the Dominion War. You could have the admiral literally walking around/through the battle and being able to select ships for more information while calling out orders, with other officers along the "edges" of the holodeck to highlight groups or the like as the admiral needs.
Other sci fi IPs already did this. For example in Battletech they have a holotank. Think of a giant sand table the military uses to model terrain they will have a mission on. Now make it an interacting holographic display that shows all of your assets on that battlefield. In addition to all known enemy assets. In real time, as the intel comes in and is processed by a computer. Each naval ship will have such a tank, if only to show that individuals perspective to it's captain in the battlespace. Or an armored divisions HQ unit were he commanding general has a portable holotank to show his area of operations.
Now take it a step further. That holotank is in the middle of a classroom, or auditorium, to have tactical and strategic exercises/lectures.
Mix the real world Volume technology with movie magic and you basically have the holo room. Great video!
Barclay and Moriarty showed the power of the holodeck.
Oh my god! Emergency Hologram Security Officers! So good!
czcams.com/video/9qD0Bjc8cnI/video.html
RedDwarf did this years before Voyager with the Light Bee ;)
And holograms had the run of the ship even before the light bee was created. Not sure how, as there was no refernce to a hologram projector of any kind until the light bee was mentioned. True, Holly could only support one hologram at a time under normal conditions, but they were a complete holographic 'ghost' of a deceased crewmember.
I could see these things being in the 32nd Century. The mobile emitter was 29th Century technology, and even if they're able to reverse-engineer it, Starfleet would still need a lot of work to do more than simply replicate the function of the original.
On the other hand, STO does have holographic medics and decoys, and holograms would explain at least some of the engineering and combat pet summons, assuming in the former case that don't just have a portable replicator on them.
As for narrative limitations there are lots of ways around it. Galorndon Core which you used in the video where Geordi and the Romulan Centurion were trapped had an electromagnetic field that trashed technology, so holographic shelter would actually fail there. Starfleet has this piece of 29th century technology but can't actually duplicate it because the tech to make it doesn't exist yet, so the current version is bigger, bulkier, and more power intensive limiting just how much you can do over time or at once. Holograms are nice as a convenience or in a crunch but there are plenty of situations on the final frontier away from support where you'd want equipment that actually physically exists and isn't just a tactile volumetric projection that could either turn off or turn into a psychotic tool out to murder you because you used percussive maintenance on it once.
Yeah, but this completely eliminates the danger and any dramatic tension. Then the writers would constantly insert "this ion storm is blocking our holograms, Captain " into every show.
Exactly. It's like how the Orville doesn't have transporters.
some great ideas here! If only the technology wasn't driven by the storyline!
Regarding hovering vehicles and holodeck safety protocols - given a holographic bullet can kill with the safeties off, i think it is reasonable to conclude that a holo-emitter with safeties off could be able to produce the holographic equipment needed to create the EM field distortions and effects that allow for anti-gravitic propulsion.. if only we had the technology to mess around with today!!
this type of technology would probably be a federation secret for years, as to 1 up their enemies. imagine creating Mirror images of your ship in battle, or fake planets. I assume it's scale can be infinite. Very interesting stuff as always, can't wait for Star Trek to find itself again.
This sounds great! Of course, it edges on Clarktech level of magic, but it adheres to the established universe and open up avenues to creative storytelling.
Actually it shuts down most creative storytelling by being able to solve too many problems.
@@silentdrew7636 Fair, though I think it could open up new predicaments now that the most basic problem is resolved. Just like how we in modern times don't have to worry about certain things that plagued the past because of our technological advances, but at the same time, we got our own problem because of it.
I'm not too familiar with the use of portable holograms within the later lore, but I think many of these applications run into the problem of energy consumption... Like contriving a brace for a cave would mean quite a large force would need to be generated, and that little guy may not be up to the task for any slightly lengthy amount of time.
True, but there shouldn't be anything preventing an mass-produced mobile emitter from being attached to a larger power supply, you could even have the emitters themselves be universal with several different sizes of powerpack/generator available for different applications.
I actually like the holographic base idea, but with a twist. Away teams can set up 4 large emitter stands to create a basic shelter. Real basic, essentially a 10m x 10m holo-tent. I also like the idea of holographic SMALL tools. Maybe have Starfleet utilize replicator and holographic tech for small physical tools. It's simple and advance but not too advance to be answer every obstacle. Maybe include a memory or temperature limit on these emitters on it to add extra plot ideas (running them too long, changing too many times, too much impact overloads the system, the usual hack from aliens due to Starfleet's version of McAfee Antivirus, etc).
They actually did it!! Episode 13 of Star Trek Prodigy, they reconstruct the bridge's consoles using holographic technology to match the TOS era ones!