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Rob Allen | Tri-Cut VS Pencil Point Spear | 2023
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- čas přidán 14. 08. 2024
- In this specific video, we do a drop test to see which "Tipped Spear" will perform better by dropping it into Ballistic Gel.
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Chapters:
00:00 - 01:20 - Intro
01:21 - 02:37 - The Jig
02:38 - 03:33 - Pencil Point (First Drop into EVA Foam)
03:34 - 04:19 - Tri Cut (First Drop into EVA Foam)
04:20 - 05:38 - Pencil Point (First Drop Into Ballistic Gel)
05:39 - 07:06 - Tri Cut (First Drop Into Ballistic Gel)
07:07 - 08:05 - Tri Cut (Second Drop Into Ballistic Gel)
08:06 - 09:02 - Pencil Point (Second Drop Into Ballistic Gel)
09:03 - 09:16 - Pencil Point (Third Drop Into Ballistic Gel)
09:17 - 09:54 - Tri Cut (Third Drop Into Ballistic Gel)
09:55 - 10:32 - Outro
![Rob Allen | Ear Equalization Problems [SOLVED] | 2024](/img/n.gif)
Great video Rob.
Rob The ShaftMaster! 👍
I believe the difference of the tips magnify as you apply more force, as it is seen in the test the tri cut does its job properly which is to cut through flesh, keep producing tri cut spears. Definitely a game changer when shooting very dense or thick amount of flesh on bigger game fish. thanks for sharing these test, truly is the best out there.
Agreed. As mentioned above, we will do more testing with different materials. This ballistic gel was not a good idea in retrospect.
gooD Day How caN i oRDeR uR sPeaRguN RuB̊B̊eR 16mm 2meTeR LoNg aND How much
@@emelitovillartasouthcebuad4703 it depends on where you are in the world.
Thanks Rob. Honest experiment. Another reason for using tri-cut spear tip is that it’s easier to sharpen at home, on the beach, on boat or even in the sea, we just need a file or stone, no special tools are needed.
I have found most have difficulty keeping the 3 facets uniform if free handing it without a jig.
@@RobAllenSpearfishing Rob if the facets get unbalanced does that affect accuracy or does the point just blunt easier.
@@markumbers5362 The point on both the pencil and the tri-cut will get damaged and become blunt equally in my opinion. More importantly if either point is slightly off center it will deflect the spear massively. Remember, that is the very front and will be able to very easily push the spear off to one side. On a side note, if the trailing end of the barb is bent out just 1mm, it will make a 1,7m spear shoot off by about 60mm at 4m. The barb is further back than the point so a 1mm off center spear tip, no matter what tip, will cause an even greater inaccuracy.
@@RobAllenSpearfishing Thanks for that great answer. I will be getting in the pool and start testing my guns.
Thanks for the honest and precise experiment. There are lot of "pros" and "cons" favoring one ore other type of spear tip. I personally use "double" cone pencil type removable spear tips and also used once spear with tri cut tip and didn't notice any difference. Actually, i find it very tricky to sharpen tri cut tip because there is always big risk of getting it unbalanced if you make the slightest imperfection , which means that you must have proper tools for this process ( 120° rotational adjuster , belt sander , spear positioning and fixation tools etc ....). It's just not worth it. Moreover, after this experiment you made, it turns out that pencil type is even little bit better 😮
BRGDS
Thanks Rob another unbiased vid keep them coming
👍👍
Thanks Rob! I admire how open and honest your tests are. This test surprised me. The pencil point spear was also a steeper taper than many other pencil point spears and I thought it would be at a disadvantage. Have you tested the other commonly believed theory that pencil/conical point spears are more accurate than tri cut? I really don't see how if the tri cut has perfect facets.
Thanks for the positive comments. Yes, I was just as surprised. There is no way there would be any difference in accuracy between the 2 if both are shaped symmetrically. I agree, the tri-cut is harder to keep uniform.
Hi Rob,
great and honest video as always!
I am surprised. Have seen people doing serious tests in pools and they claim tri-cut has better penetration. I am no material specialist at all but the tests I have seen was using kind of construction foam targets.
Maybe the ballistic gel creates lots of friction around the shaft itself (I'm ignoring the type of tip for a second) that makes both tips look to achieve similar penetration. Meaning that the length of the spear that is penetrating is more relevant as the relatively smaller tip (I am visualizing friction on larger vs smaller "area")?
Question also, would be how it behaves on real fish bodies - I ask myself which material gets closer to real fish bodies. Would it be the gel (isn't it more sticky in a way?) or some foams? Not sure really.
Thanks for sharing invaluable myth busting videos. Love what you guys do.
Regards from Panama and all the best >
I agree, the ballistic gel is probably not the right medium. The tri-cut is not really cutting as the gel is soft. We will repeat this later with cardboard and foam layers.
@@RobAllenSpearfishing Excited to see those results. Thanks for your feedback!
My idea is that the pencil point is appropriate for blue water. Long shots and overpowered guns need to be accurized to reduce shaft whip and any "steering" from out of tune floppers or uneven cut tri tips. So to reduce variables when accurizing use a pencil point. Has anyone else heard this theory?
I have to disagree, as long as both are uniformly ground there will be no affect on the spears flight. If either are off, even slightly, they will affect the spears flight. However, to make a pencil point uniform is much easier than a tri cut.
@@RobAllenSpearfishing I don't have enough blue water experience to know. So I'm glad you replied. Thanks for the info.
@@tylergrunert Chances are, the tri cut will give the best penetration due to the better bone cutting if you happen to hit bone.
Interesting .I also wonder if the Tri cut would work better while hiting bone in a fish and i also wonder if the Tri cut would create more tearing in the flesh as it may be cutting through the flesh and the pencil tip may punch through leaving a smother entry and exit.
I'd tend to agree with you. We are going to do the test again, this time with something that is harder like bone.
I believe the clear ballistic gel is more stable with respect to temperature while still being "close enough".
The other thing I thought of while watching the video was the toughness of a fish's scales/skin. I wonder if the different point shapes perform differently against a tough outer layer?
I was thinking the same thing. Ballistic gel is great for replicating skin and flesh, but fish are totally different. I'm not sure how that could be tested humanely. Great video though!
I agree and plan to do another to try simulate harder components. As we all know, hit the fish in the body and the spear can go right through. The same fish, same spear, same distance away, hit a thick spine and it stops dead.
Would cones infront of the flopper improve accuracy/efficiency? Some other brands use them.
Our spears are accurate due to the effort we put into getting them perfectly straight. The cone might lower drag a little but I doubt enough to be noticeable. I could be wrong so one day I might try pool test this theory.
Sigal speartip form is perfect
Penetration is one thing but what about efficiency through the water? Hydronamic ballistic coefficient.
Interesting point, might try test the difference one day but.... I'd rather have good penetration with a tri-cut over spear speed.
Hi Rob,
Do you have plans to start producing double roller guns, and what are your thoughts on them?
We are quite far advanced with one. They have a place to give more power on longer rollers where you can use 2 thinner rubbers. This also allows for heavier spears. These in my opinion are not really suitable on our standard tube guns if you want to drive say an 8mm spear, you need more barrel buoyancy and mass to help with recoil.
Rob the next thing would be using either a different material such as tungsten or what about barrel spear shape, fat in the middle and thinner at the tips, they use this in archery, it produces a stiffer shaft for less material. 8mm middle and 4mm tips. Would pentrate water and fish better. Have to make on a lathe.
I agree but running that off a rail barrel will induce a wobble. I'd rather keep with the rail advantage than no rail and this option. Yes, I agree it should be better but to machine a spear down like that would cost a fortune.
Ballistics gel actually isn't the best thing to use for that. It gives poor results due to surface friction. Better to use many layers of corrogated cardboard, and do 4 test of each spear to test for variations in the cardboard. Also a factor is the cutting could be observed in the gel with the tri-cut, does more damage, therefore more dangerous to the fish. It's also easier to sharpen with a grinder. Stick to tri-cut.
Agreed, the ballistic gel not the best. I had thought this was the norm with bullets. It also changes state as it cools. I need to do another test but with cardboard layers, maybe with foam in between.
@@RobAllenSpearfishing Yeah it's the norm with bullets, but they don't have a large area of surface friction. Thanks for the reply. Keen to see the follow-up. My money is on tri-cut.
A duller tip arguably could produce more trauma punching and tearing a hole versus a Precision cut. Which might be a moot point because of the Flopper. You cut your hole through cleanly and then catch the fish with the Flopper. I've had less issues with the tip and more issues with the line actually cutting the meat if I don't get a good shot
Do it with fish next time!!😂😂
Tripoint is easier to make. It's actually pretty hard to evenly grind a cone
..too much variables in this test. if you want to get realistic proof, you would need to run some test with different set-ups.
best in the water, different targetmaterials, maybe even a dead fish(with no scales and big scales), bodyshot vs. headshot, gillplates, different shooting-distance, from different gun-set-ups. also different shapes of the speartips. longer shaped pencil vs. shorter shaped. and more....
Way to much effort and variability 😛👍 We will run it again but with layers, soft and hard, see if that changes the results.