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Thanks a lot for putting the work into this explanation, especially your efforts to uncover the actual numbers behind temp health on stagger. Why Fatshark can't just spell out these things in the talent descriptions is beyond me.
A lot of the descriptions are confusing to me still. For example, I still don’t get how the stagger talents really work. I know it affects first, second or third hits on minions but not sure if there is a time limit between hits before it resets etc. I hope they make a less convoluted system for Darktide.
@@CraigBozUK I maybe wrong so don’t quote me on this, but as far as I can tell is that a level 1 stagger last around 2-3s and level 2 stagger last 3-5s, and the stagger will reset to 0 when the enemy start attacking you again. Of course, there’re also attack animations from minions in that mess too. The time frame I gave is on average but for something like berserkers, or beastmen they tend to attack faster and their animations are shorter so they recover faster; while something like a mauler or chaos warrior the stagger will last longer as they have slower attacks. I know it is a freaking mess but you will eventually get it after playing the game for a long time.
@@avandarkwalker9132 ah right. Thanks for the reply. I didn’t know that and I’ve been playing for two years lol. So I guess the effects of mainstay won’t work on something like a plague monk that is constantly attacking and can’t be interrupted?
@@CraigBozUK Yes, but you can still stagger them with “opportunist” and stop their attacks and put them right straight into stagger 2. Slayer’s ult with the extra stagger talent will put even berserkers into stagger 2 and stop their attacks and knock down all smaller trashes. FK charge also knock down everything. GK ult has same stagger strength as Slayer’s ult but a lot smaller aoe.
@@CraigBozUK So the important thing to note is that there are 2 completely separate systems that have absolutely nothing to do with each other that both use the word ''stagger''. There is ''stagger count'' which I've recently explained in a video and that is what affects the level 15 talents. And then you have a different system of actual stagger which has nothing to do with the first that is essentially weighing your attacks stagger power vs the minions mass/resistance to determine if the attacks staggers the minion. But the two things have nothing to do with each other! :) It's extremely confusing but I hope that clarifies!
I can consider a team setup where heal share is used: Mercenary, Ranger Veteran with Exhilarating Vapours, Unchained with Bomb Balm, Sister of the Thorn with healshare. 3 of them can generate thp on cleave or stagger, keeping it high generally, and then also have ults which give thp (which are boosted by 25% due to SoT). Played right, those 3 should always be able to reach max (hp+thp) with their ult, so any excess goes to SoT. Even then you'd wanna pick maps where you know the locations of guaranteed item drops. Without any method of generating healing items, healshare will rarely ever match up to generating thp.
I like running heal share on Sister of the thorn and ranger veteran. SOTT usually gains enough temp hp from allies and the ranger veteran with his passive extra chance of not consuming combined with healers touch makes him a fun little pocket healer and he can also heal with smoke bomb as well. Though if you are using temp hp on stagger with the ranger, the one-handed hammer's push attack does some really nice temp hp on hordes.
@@kaicmma It's not so much SOT specifically as it's elf mains in general! xD They tend to run off on their own and die at which point they either leave or blame their closest living teammate. And I say that full well knowing that I myself am a filthy elf main haha!Obviously overexaggerating a little bit here though! :P
@@ThePartyKnife ahh makes sense. thank you for the videos, they are very informative. I'm new to this game and trying to get through legend at the moment
What happened to random players?! Who put this mad idea into their fragile brains?!! Why are they always healing with medkits and keeping the healing potions with them?! WHYYYYYY?! Oh, PK made another vid to save my day) Thats some digging you did there, quite informative, thanks!
@@ThePartyKnife hope you reach those 10k in no time. 😁 But on a serious note, something is really wrong with players these days. I just can't process it, prioritising health pot over medkit and wasting the latter, maybe I'm missing something...
@@shkiper9411 It could be because (and I'm just guessing here) but sometimes on very high modded realm difficulties you do prioritize the health pot simply because the spawns never stop and you can gain it's effect a lot quicker and it can thus save ur ass in splitsecond in a manner that the medkit cannot. And if we immagine that people are watching content creators do this they might mirror that behaviour unbeknownst that it's not at all necessary even on cata? That's the best guess I've got haha! :D
@@ThePartyKnife huh, makes sense. The use time is indeed faster but then again there are so many scenarios when we have 3 books and a health pot and often a player with a book needs healing. If only we could drop the the pot like a grim or just use it on other players like in Back4blood, I really like their healing mechanics in a way that you can heal any player with any healing item.
Amazing video, really appreciate when people do their own testing like this. Regarding GK's ult, i wonder if it gave you 6 instead of 3 because you hit the damage cap of 255 and it counted a second hit for the damage rollover?
Could it be that the 6 temp hp came from the SUPER stagger thats given to ults, like the shouts, but GK's ult is considered his melee weapon in the spaghetti code and therefore gives the user temp HP on hitting a target with it? It would have to be tested probably (sadly i dont own GK as im smol brain elf main).
@@ThePartyKnife I wanted to say "well at least fatshark probably has no idea this exists so they werent hiding it from us by having awful descriptions." Then i realised the issue of Wow, they probably have no idea this exists. fatshark stamp of approval.
@@ThePartyKnife It could also be, because the damage of the GK ult is so high that it is shown as 2 separate numbers per attack and might be counted as 2 separate hits by the temp hp talent, because of that.
One tip to point of that took me a long time to realise is that using a health kit on someone who is in a death state, also takes you out of death state, so if you are a zealot in death state, use a med kit on someone to get out of it. Blew my mind
21:57 I am always the one who have that talent to heal up everyone in trouble. Love helping with such. I may advise you to use it with a build or team with temp hp sources (Thorn elf as example - she may get temp AND have such 5lvl talent)
@@janotil1778 Well, yes she is indeed the most optimised for that perk, but there are other options... But sure she is at least one of the most viable from them all, including team builds.
grail knight ulti is causing an extreme stagger twice. It's less about the stagger the weapon is trying to cause and is more about the actual stagger the enemy goes through. That Grail knight example is bad too, under normal circumstances the only thing that would survive it is a boss. Like pushing clan rats with a shield in legend is a strong stagger so 3 per unit pushed. But if all three rats resist the stagger then nothing applied to them so you get nothing for it. That's the reason why when something dies it gives no stagger temp hp, because it didn't stagger it died. I use grail knight with bret longsword and mace and shield, so I can survive all specials and use stagger to generate full hp when needed. very OP :) Beware though, pushing monks doesn't work, they won't stagger so if you think you can push and generate more temp HP than they deal you're in dreamland.
I think heavy cleave weapons (like the ones you would put mainstay on) that lack single target armor damage shine the most with either the cleave or the stagger talent whilst single target headshot weapons shine the most from kills or critical hits! :) Also it's important to be aware of which one you are using and actually keep that in mind when you are fighting. Kills for example still generate temp hp versus hordes but it's extremely slow and inefficient so if you are low you might want to consider finding the nearest Chaos Warrior in a hurry! :D
Yeah I think it depends entirely on your weapon, difficulty, and skill. I dont have a high enough headshot ratio to justify thp on crit/HS, but if you do then make sure to have a fast weapon like rapier or dual daggers to do so. I almost always prefer stagger since I play on Legend and Cata, and enemy stagger resist is low enough to generate lots. Any higher and I would advise against it, unless you have a mega stagger build (I.e foot knight with a shield weapon and stagger talents). If stagger isnt there I choose cleave, since cleave gives 1 thp if you only hit 1, so it's still useful against elites and bosses. I only choose thp on kill on careers with insane melee elite killing power - grail knight, slayer, shade, SoT, zealot. Even then, I have to consider team composition, as my allies might just shoot most elites and kill them at range before I can get to them.
I think I know why grail knight ult gives 6. If you hit one of the dummies with the ult, you get 2 seperate damage numbers per swing. So for whatever reason the ult is hitting twice, and thus staggering twice, per swing.
No that is just cus damage numbers can not go over 255.75 I belive it is, if the damage goes higher, it just creates a new damage number, it's not 2 hits. Same thing happens with any attack that does more then 255.75 damage
@@prich0382 wow, all this time I thought 255 was the maximum amount of damage any 1 attack could do and any additional damage was ignored, that's a pretty useful piece of information.
No they do not! :) It's super confusing (I know) but stagger and stagger count actually have nothing to do with each other... xD So the only 2 real effects I can think of is that enhanced power being a raw power buff does affect your stagger power and if you get temp hp on stagger but you are using like smiter or assassin and 1 shot the enemy well then you obviously don't get ur temp hp. But in the generals sense the answer would be no! :) hope that makes sense and thanks for watching!
The only good ones are stagger, kill and damaging number of enemies, maybe crit. Some characters have the wrong ones like Unchained, she really needs on kill as I find it difficult to generate thp with her, wish she had on kill as she's a monster with flail, maybe it's cus of Legend as then if you use stagger, you kill trash in 1 hit a lot which generates no thp (which is stupid), works a bit better on cata, but i use on hit anyway as you are pretty much always going to generate 5 on Heavy 2
I was thinking like thp on kill like how you explained (which I already guessed that's how it worked), that stagger thp worked similarly but is based on the specific enemy and which stagger count you put that enemy in, so it's not like this?
So Shade with swift slaying Daggers, thp on kill or headshot? Ran a couple matches today testing both and couldn't get a good feel for which was doing better. I was only on champ and I think specials and elites were hard to get to first so maybe that skewed my results some?
Oooor you can be a Sister and gain all that yummie temp hp by stand still... +25% for the whole party... thats "75%" (counting the other 3 heroes)"... for just pressing play ???????? Is there a point of having Career with temp hp in the curent game, When its at least 25% more to everyone.... AND she can deal with high density hordes, AND by pass armor, AND make bosses a joke without having to setup like the others careers? Sry but to me the Sister is a big no for team play and ruins the game.... This was me venting a little :) Yeah 3 dots here too
Literally nothing I do will make the Zealot’s flail generate temp health. I assume it’s an issue with the PlayStation version as I keep hearing the weapon is pretty good from PC players
It could also be that you are killing the enemies on impact which doesn't generate any temp hp. One solution is to pick the talent that increases healing received which also translates into temporary health generated! Hope that helps and thanks for watching m8!
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I'd like to see a trait or something that increases the duration of temp hp
Thanks a lot for putting the work into this explanation, especially your efforts to uncover the actual numbers behind temp health on stagger. Why Fatshark can't just spell out these things in the talent descriptions is beyond me.
A lot of the descriptions are confusing to me still. For example, I still don’t get how the stagger talents really work. I know it affects first, second or third hits on minions but not sure if there is a time limit between hits before it resets etc. I hope they make a less convoluted system for Darktide.
@@CraigBozUK I maybe wrong so don’t quote me on this, but as far as I can tell is that a level 1 stagger last around 2-3s and level 2 stagger last 3-5s, and the stagger will reset to 0 when the enemy start attacking you again.
Of course, there’re also attack animations from minions in that mess too. The time frame I gave is on average but for something like berserkers, or beastmen they tend to attack faster and their animations are shorter so they recover faster; while something like a mauler or chaos warrior the stagger will last longer as they have slower attacks.
I know it is a freaking mess but you will eventually get it after playing the game for a long time.
@@avandarkwalker9132 ah right. Thanks for the reply. I didn’t know that and I’ve been playing for two years lol. So I guess the effects of mainstay won’t work on something like a plague monk that is constantly attacking and can’t be interrupted?
@@CraigBozUK Yes, but you can still stagger them with “opportunist” and stop their attacks and put them right straight into stagger 2. Slayer’s ult with the extra stagger talent will put even berserkers into stagger 2 and stop their attacks and knock down all smaller trashes. FK charge also knock down everything. GK ult has same stagger strength as Slayer’s ult but a lot smaller aoe.
@@CraigBozUK So the important thing to note is that there are 2 completely separate systems that have absolutely nothing to do with each other that both use the word ''stagger''. There is ''stagger count'' which I've recently explained in a video and that is what affects the level 15 talents. And then you have a different system of actual stagger which has nothing to do with the first that is essentially weighing your attacks stagger power vs the minions mass/resistance to determine if the attacks staggers the minion. But the two things have nothing to do with each other! :) It's extremely confusing but I hope that clarifies!
I can consider a team setup where heal share is used:
Mercenary, Ranger Veteran with Exhilarating Vapours, Unchained with Bomb Balm, Sister of the Thorn with healshare.
3 of them can generate thp on cleave or stagger, keeping it high generally, and then also have ults which give thp (which are boosted by 25% due to SoT). Played right, those 3 should always be able to reach max (hp+thp) with their ult, so any excess goes to SoT.
Even then you'd wanna pick maps where you know the locations of guaranteed item drops.
Without any method of generating healing items, healshare will rarely ever match up to generating thp.
Can add to the list of "Fatshark don't explain" vol 2
hahahaha that is almost too accurate! xD Wise words my friend!
9:58 you instinctively dodge back lol
Hahahaha true story!
Love your vids mate, no one goes into the details like you.
I like running heal share on Sister of the thorn and ranger veteran. SOTT usually gains enough temp hp from allies and the ranger veteran with his passive extra chance of not consuming combined with healers touch makes him a fun little pocket healer and he can also heal with smoke bomb as well. Though if you are using temp hp on stagger with the ranger, the one-handed hammer's push attack does some really nice temp hp on hordes.
I can respect that! Makes you one of a very small handful of SOTT's in quickplay that might be pleasant to have on the team!
@@ThePartyKnife I don't play on PC but why are most SOT not pleasant to play with? I say this because I main SOT
@@kaicmma It's not so much SOT specifically as it's elf mains in general! xD They tend to run off on their own and die at which point they either leave or blame their closest living teammate. And I say that full well knowing that I myself am a filthy elf main haha!Obviously overexaggerating a little bit here though! :P
@@ThePartyKnife ahh makes sense. thank you for the videos, they are very informative. I'm new to this game and trying to get through legend at the moment
@@ThePartyKnife funny thing is whenever I queue with a healshare setup on any character I end up with a sour zealot on the team. :P
What happened to random players?! Who put this mad idea into their fragile brains?!! Why are they always healing with medkits and keeping the healing potions with them?! WHYYYYYY?!
Oh, PK made another vid to save my day) Thats some digging you did there, quite informative, thanks!
Awww why thank you very much my friend! Appreciate the love and thank you for the nice comment man! Always brightens my day!
@@ThePartyKnife hope you reach those 10k in no time. 😁
But on a serious note, something is really wrong with players these days. I just can't process it, prioritising health pot over medkit and wasting the latter, maybe I'm missing something...
@@shkiper9411 It could be because (and I'm just guessing here) but sometimes on very high modded realm difficulties you do prioritize the health pot simply because the spawns never stop and you can gain it's effect a lot quicker and it can thus save ur ass in splitsecond in a manner that the medkit cannot. And if we immagine that people are watching content creators do this they might mirror that behaviour unbeknownst that it's not at all necessary even on cata? That's the best guess I've got haha! :D
@@ThePartyKnife huh, makes sense. The use time is indeed faster but then again there are so many scenarios when we have 3 books and a health pot and often a player with a book needs healing. If only we could drop the the pot like a grim or just use it on other players like in Back4blood, I really like their healing mechanics in a way that you can heal any player with any healing item.
Amazing video, really appreciate when people do their own testing like this. Regarding GK's ult, i wonder if it gave you 6 instead of 3 because you hit the damage cap of 255 and it counted a second hit for the damage rollover?
omg good job on the stagger temp hp pk!
Awww why thank you kind sir of the internet! Really much appreciated!
It's pretty obvious to me how on kill works, I saw it as basically it depends on what enemy you kill and it's the same no matter the difficulty
Could it be that the 6 temp hp came from the SUPER stagger thats given to ults, like the shouts, but GK's ult is considered his melee weapon in the spaghetti code and therefore gives the user temp HP on hitting a target with it? It would have to be tested probably (sadly i dont own GK as im smol brain elf main).
Yeah that could be but I honestly dunno because I'm also an elf main!
@@ThePartyKnife I wanted to say "well at least fatshark probably has no idea this exists so they werent hiding it from us by having awful descriptions." Then i realised the issue of Wow, they probably have no idea this exists. fatshark stamp of approval.
@@ThePartyKnife It could also be, because the damage of the GK ult is so high that it is shown as 2 separate numbers per attack and might be counted as 2 separate hits by the temp hp talent, because of that.
That thumbnail makes me want a shirtless skin for kruber 😩
Hahaha yeah it's really well made! All credit to Janfon1 for making it!
I am using Heal Share on my Unchained bot and it is extremely useful. .-) By the way, great video PK. .-)
Very much appreciated! :)
One tip to point of that took me a long time to realise is that using a health kit on someone who is in a death state, also takes you out of death state, so if you are a zealot in death state, use a med kit on someone to get out of it. Blew my mind
Great level of detail, thanks
THP is good.... but never underestimate the power of heal sharing !
Wise words my friend! :)
21:57
I am always the one who have that talent to heal up everyone in trouble. Love helping with such.
I may advise you to use it with a build or team with temp hp sources (Thorn elf as example - she may get temp AND have such 5lvl talent)
Hell yeah my friend! :) I respect anyone willing to do that for the team!
P.S you should probably avoid all Zealot mains though!
SoT is the only class that can reallyake use of this and it is even viable on high difficulties with her which is pretty nice
@@janotil1778 Well, yes she is indeed the most optimised for that perk, but there are other options... But sure she is at least one of the most viable from them all, including team builds.
grail knight ulti is causing an extreme stagger twice. It's less about the stagger the weapon is trying to cause and is more about the actual stagger the enemy goes through. That Grail knight example is bad too, under normal circumstances the only thing that would survive it is a boss.
Like pushing clan rats with a shield in legend is a strong stagger so 3 per unit pushed. But if all three rats resist the stagger then nothing applied to them so you get nothing for it. That's the reason why when something dies it gives no stagger temp hp, because it didn't stagger it died. I use grail knight with bret longsword and mace and shield, so I can survive all specials and use stagger to generate full hp when needed. very OP :)
Beware though, pushing monks doesn't work, they won't stagger so if you think you can push and generate more temp HP than they deal you're in dreamland.
Thanks for your research
You are most welcome kind sir of the internet! :)
Okay so you may not know this, but temporary health is actually temporary. Crazy!
ehhh what? xD
Any of them obviously better or worse than the others in your experience? Or are they roughly equal and you should just pick the best for you? Thanks!
I think heavy cleave weapons (like the ones you would put mainstay on) that lack single target armor damage shine the most with either the cleave or the stagger talent whilst single target headshot weapons shine the most from kills or critical hits! :) Also it's important to be aware of which one you are using and actually keep that in mind when you are fighting. Kills for example still generate temp hp versus hordes but it's extremely slow and inefficient so if you are low you might want to consider finding the nearest Chaos Warrior in a hurry! :D
Yeah I think it depends entirely on your weapon, difficulty, and skill.
I dont have a high enough headshot ratio to justify thp on crit/HS, but if you do then make sure to have a fast weapon like rapier or dual daggers to do so.
I almost always prefer stagger since I play on Legend and Cata, and enemy stagger resist is low enough to generate lots. Any higher and I would advise against it, unless you have a mega stagger build (I.e foot knight with a shield weapon and stagger talents).
If stagger isnt there I choose cleave, since cleave gives 1 thp if you only hit 1, so it's still useful against elites and bosses.
I only choose thp on kill on careers with insane melee elite killing power - grail knight, slayer, shade, SoT, zealot. Even then, I have to consider team composition, as my allies might just shoot most elites and kill them at range before I can get to them.
I think I know why grail knight ult gives 6. If you hit one of the dummies with the ult, you get 2 seperate damage numbers per swing. So for whatever reason the ult is hitting twice, and thus staggering twice, per swing.
No that is just cus damage numbers can not go over 255.75 I belive it is, if the damage goes higher, it just creates a new damage number, it's not 2 hits. Same thing happens with any attack that does more then 255.75 damage
@@prich0382 wow, all this time I thought 255 was the maximum amount of damage any 1 attack could do and any additional damage was ignored, that's a pretty useful piece of information.
@@JohnDoe-nc5fs It's a computer thing, 256 is 2^8
Wait till you test the Grudge-Raker for stagger THP. :)
Do the stagger talents like smiter, affect temp hp on stagger talents?
No they do not! :) It's super confusing (I know) but stagger and stagger count actually have nothing to do with each other... xD So the only 2 real effects I can think of is that enhanced power being a raw power buff does affect your stagger power and if you get temp hp on stagger but you are using like smiter or assassin and 1 shot the enemy well then you obviously don't get ur temp hp. But in the generals sense the answer would be no! :) hope that makes sense and thanks for watching!
Smiter does not cause stagger.
The only good ones are stagger, kill and damaging number of enemies, maybe crit. Some characters have the wrong ones like Unchained, she really needs on kill as I find it difficult to generate thp with her, wish she had on kill as she's a monster with flail, maybe it's cus of Legend as then if you use stagger, you kill trash in 1 hit a lot which generates no thp (which is stupid), works a bit better on cata, but i use on hit anyway as you are pretty much always going to generate 5 on Heavy 2
So, to get temp HP from killing monster, should you just hit a monster, hit it for x% of his total HP, or you should just make a killing blow?
killing blow
I was thinking like thp on kill like how you explained (which I already guessed that's how it worked), that stagger thp worked similarly but is based on the specific enemy and which stagger count you put that enemy in, so it's not like this?
So Shade with swift slaying Daggers, thp on kill or headshot? Ran a couple matches today testing both and couldn't get a good feel for which was doing better. I was only on champ and I think specials and elites were hard to get to first so maybe that skewed my results some?
Oooor you can be a Sister and gain all that yummie temp hp by stand still... +25% for the whole party... thats "75%" (counting the other 3 heroes)"... for just pressing play ???????? Is there a point of having Career with temp hp in the curent game, When its at least 25% more to everyone.... AND she can deal with high density hordes, AND by pass armor, AND make bosses a joke without having to setup like the others careers?
Sry but to me the Sister is a big no for team play and ruins the game....
This was me venting a little :)
Yeah 3 dots here too
Sister of the Thorn is most certainly a bit too OP :D
What mod do you use to access that beastiary?
23:41 what language is that? 😮
Danish xD
@Genkiro Senji You are not far off! It's Danish!
Literally nothing I do will make the Zealot’s flail generate temp health. I assume it’s an issue with the PlayStation version as I keep hearing the weapon is pretty good from PC players
It could also be that you are killing the enemies on impact which doesn't generate any temp hp. One solution is to pick the talent that increases healing received which also translates into temporary health generated! Hope that helps and thanks for watching m8!
@@ThePartyKnife cool. I will give it another try