1000 Bullets VS Carbon Fiber Barrel
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- čas přidán 23. 08. 2024
- In this video, we put a carbon fiber barrel to the test, firing 1000 rapid rounds to gauge its resilience under extreme heat. We use a bore scope for an in-depth examination after cutting the barrel clean down the middle, offering a unique inside look.
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MDT was born out of a single purpose: to provide better value and better accuracy for precision rifles. The first MDT chassis was developed from the ground up based on the needs of shooters.
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Would have been interesting to see a grouping/accuracy test before and after. Although with the action getting that hot, a zero shift could be from anything at that point besides the barrel
Right that scope/mount took a pounding!
yeah this is the real test. accuracy before and after
Exactly, that would have been sensible. Guess they will have to do another 1000 rounds..lol
Blows my mind that they wouldn’t shoot groupings before and after
This is what I was going to say
better than carbon fiber submarine
That was well timed. Definitely not too soon…
Nice bro. You won the internet today.
The sub shouldve taken notes on how they bonded the titanium and carbon fiber
most underrated comment ever! :)
Lol
A before and after 5 round group would have been awesome! It hurt a little to watch, but super interesting and very entertaining!
Just a note, the carbon fiber not melting the snow isn't necessarily meaning it's not as hot but may just be because carbon fiber is a worse conductor of heat than the metal.
Conductivity of the carbon fiber is probably variable based on the type of resin used, in this case looks like it's more insulative.
that just sounds like saying it's not as hot with extra steps
@@kh8655Not remotely. It's not about how much energy a thing has, but how readily it transfers that energy.
Here's an analogy that might help. The difference between tannerite and C4 is how reactive they are. You can't detonate C4 (RDX) with regular methods. You can set C4 on fire and shoot it with a rifle and it won't detonate. Tannerite detonates in a microwave.
@@YoureSoVane okay but the carbon fiber still isn't as hot because of it's lack of thermal conductivity
@@kh8655 Is a 1000W UV light not very bright just because your eyes can't see it? Are infra sound waves not able to be loud because your ears can't hear it? We have measurements for definitions of a property of an object, and definitions of subjective perception, but they are not the same.
@@YoureSoVane and the carbon fiber was a lower temperature than the metal.
there's your measurement
Two key factors can have big impacts to CB barrels: 1, overall thermo conductivity of carbon part: include characteristics of resin, filler and types of carbon fiber; 2nd, carbon to steel ratio.
The alloy formula of steel also plays a good part in it too.
Clearly the Carbon to Steel ratio was admirable in this test.
Also and possible more importantly, the way the barrel is wrapped. Proof Research (used in the video) spins individual carbon fiber strands around the barrel to build up the OD then grinds it back down to contour. Most other companies like Christiansen Arms Wraps their barrels with Woven CF sheets. In theory woven sheets will have much worse thermal dissipation. and, from an engineering standpoint, while being cheaper, is also the incorrect use application. Saving you the science / engineering talk, Proof does it correctly.
That looks to me to be a PROOF Research barrel. I have worked for PROOF Research for over 5 years and its really cool to see some crazy things being done with them.
Amazing! Is this THE Kevin Hamilton? I've heard whispers of your consistency and craftsmanship! Love knowing you turn expensive pipes into fantastic barrels! Keep up the good work!
I’d really like to see how the high carbon low steel barrel in AR platform going to perform in similar test.
As Canadian, we might need a new government first.
Don;t go to BRasil ... need a new COUNTRY first ..
America needs a new government too
Then be sure to vote Pierre Poilievre and the conservatives. He has said his government will repeal the liberal AWB and pistol ban (both done by executive fiat).
Hopefully, Having learned from what the Liberals did, Pierre will make AR-15s non restricted category and also end the registry (and back doornregistrues like universal backgound checks) for handguns (so that no future Liberal government will have any idea which law abiding Canadian has which firearm).
*cough* -carbon fiber PLA 3D printed barrels- *cough* shhhhh government
Definitely should have done before and after grouping. Missed opportunity.
Cool i was worried my barrel wouldn't work on that volcano trip i was planning 😅
😂
Would have been interesting to do an accuracy test before and after.
Accuracy would absolutely suffer in this regard. there's no questions about that. More meaningful would be the group change as it heat up within the first 2-300 rounds.
You guys have some of the best research videos. Thanks.
I wouldn’t exactly call it “research”
Interesting and valuable test. The only extra I would have done would have been shooting a few groups for accuracy after the barrel had cooled back down but from your examination afterwards I doubt you'd see a measurable difference. Nice work.
Thank you!
The thing about carbon fiber is that its awful at heat transfer so if your thermal camera was showing 4-500 degrees on the outside theres a good chance the actual barrel got much hotter. Would be interesting to bore scope it and see the results after a good cleaning.
What does MDT do with all the test guns an hardware. It would be cool if you can visit a show room full of al the tests they ran
One thing I’ve noticed on one of my cf barreled rifles (with the scope sitting almost on the barrel), is that after 20rnds it slings shots. Found out it was swelling from heat expansion and putting pressure on the scope
Carbon fiber laminate actualy contracts vs steel that expands as it heats up that is probably why there is no delamination between the two , still its impressive they use such high temperature resin.
Any decent carpenter knows the strength ratings of different kinds of wood. Your hardwoods are going to come from a rainforest
I think it would be important to do a burn down between a carbon and steel barrel to see if the wear amount is different.
Sorry if I missed it who is the manufacturer of that barrel?
Proof research
would be more intersted in real world application ; rapid fire 25-50 rds.....group shot, andother rapid strip, group test etc. Would be really interesting for accurancy tests over 200-300 rds. Appreciate all the work you guys do!
I'm still trying to figure out how my man cut a barrel in half long ways with a CNC Mill as it was chucked into two vices lol.🤣
Big fan of Brazil 🇧🇷👍🏾
I really like the look of that stock. MDT and Lone Peak for the Win!
Totally off topic but that may be the best looking rifle I've ever seen
Me: I dream of shooting guns all day and getting paid to do it.
Gods of fate: makes me that guy. Stand, shoot, cycle, shoot, reload, repeat.
would be cool to see a 10000 round test in the future.
Very few rounds will go that long and retain accurately. 223 is one, 308 can sometimes.
A 6.5 Creed only has a typical barrel life of 2500-3500 rounds. Most likely closer to 2000 if treated like this.
Wish you would have measured the temperature of the inside of the barrel and compared it to a steel barrel of similar weight.
It's not necessarily that the carbon fiber isn't as hot, it's just that it's not conducting the heat as quickly. Steel is really low in thermal conductivity for metals down in the 15 to 45 W/m-K range depending on the particular alloy. Carbon fiber from what I've been able to find ranges between 6 and .4 W/m-K though due to the nature of composites, that's a lot harder to find good information on.
Throughout the test did the carbon fiber portion always showed lower temperature? Did you mention what manufacturers built the barrel?
This just confirms the confidence I have in my CF barrel. I run a suppressor on a 20” Proof Research CF 22 Nosler AR15 for hog hunting. Even after several mags the barrel is cool to the touch, the can would deglove your hand. I’ve been very impressed with the accuracy(sub moa) and speeds (3500fps factory 55gr).
Love my 20” Proof CF barrel on my AR-10 .308. Sub MOA with Fed GMM and Berger OTMs. My Thunder Beast Magnus should be available in a couple more months.
@@shadrach314 my next build is a 6.5cm AR10, gonna do a Proof CF, probably small frame to keep it light and compact.
It is cool to the touch becasue the carbon fiber is acting like an insulator. It is holding the heat in instead of allowing it to radiat freely. You have effectively put a permanent oven mitt on the barrel. It staying cool to the touch is not a good sign it is a bad sign that heat is not being allowed to conduct away from the bore.
@@buckaroobonsi555So the insulation makes a better oven! And while you don't SEE the pencil barrel drooping, something still has to give. Considering how the gas tube was designed as a failure point to keep the receiver from throwing metal in your face...
so fun fact. the 787 has less insulation then other aluminum planes due to the insulative propertys of carbon fiber
That's a gorgeous stock and it looks really slick with that barrel.
Oh wow... The mating area of composite to metal is ribbed to create more surface area or contact area... clever... I always just assumed it would be flat or straight...
I really wish y'all would have done accuracy before and after!
You really hyped us up with that thumbnail
Very very interesting, man I would like to the see accuracy before and after.
As of 8/19/23 it cost them $2150 in ammo to run this test. I stack Hornady 140 ELDs, I cried inside...
When did you film this?! It's like 115 degrees today yet it's snowing in your video
cam pov: that friendly sniper that camps at the back for the whole game.
Very cool and informative content. Keep it up MDT.. Would have been interesting to do an accuracy test before and after..
It depends on the alloy of steel and titanium used, but theres a good chance the titanium has a low rate of thermal expansion than the steel, plus the titanium would be cooling off more quickly than the steel since it has a significant surface exposed to air.
That was what I was thinking too about why some of the cases where sticking
Sage Dynamics has entered the chat for the burn down.
How many rounds did it take to reach peak temp?
You had to use ELD-m 😭 why not use poo poo ammo
a couple of disagreements, and I think it's really matter:
you shooting in cold weather
you don't measure accuracy
also, next period of using, how barrel will work after usage like this, how fiber will change in cutaway after some time.
thank you so much for your work
we could not measure the accuracy because of having to shoot with masks on. It was impossible to get a good sight picture.
Has nothing to do with cold weather. I guess u didn't see the snow melting much faster on the steel parts vs the carbon fiber parts. The carbon clealry dissipates heat faster than the steel, as expected. And yes. Accuracy test woulda been nice. I think they were overly cautious about fumes
@@rkwjunior2298
this is the point, the boundary between metal and carbon expands and gives off heat at different speeds, and this is what can lead to changes in the structure, in the metal-carbon contact
it's the main problem of all carbon barrels, balance of cooling in time
okay let's make holly war here! 🤣🤣👌
@@murate4 Its not a problem, they work great. You can find probelms and flaws in alot of things when pushed to its limits. 1000 rounds one after the other is a super extreme test, 99.9% wont ever see an issue, while hunting or even in competition. So the benefit outweighs the negatives to most Everyone. The benefit is stiffness at a lighter weight, which is more of a real concern in the real world.
Who makes the barrel?
PROOF Research
Very cool and informative content. Keep it up MDT.
I read one barrel maker say something about 900 degrees, no idea what that was in relation to, presumably some kind of curing or bonding
Love my MDT!
Great testing.
Hey, at least this carbon/titanium combo didn't implode
Strikes me that accuracy would’ve been more of a key performance indicator rather than rapid multiple round firing…
Awesome, thanks for doing things like this.
Would have been far more interesting to see the accuracy effect before and after
Just a thought regarding stuck casings! I wonder if the heat from action is being transferred to the brass casing, causing some expansion to brass and lodging them in place?!?! Thoughts?
If you were worried about bending the barrel, snow would have done more than the heat. Stress in steel comes from cooling too quick.
Definitely designed for cold weather
amazing
I really thought the carbon fiber would start to delaminate or something. Thats over 280 celsius. Crazy technology.
It just burns typically. Have to get it so hot the resin reaches its ignition temp.
Very interesting content, thanks for the video. Cheers, from France
Nice observation and gets me thinking about my next build, but while I'm waiting on that...Let me get that brass.😅
The cases getting stuck was a result of the steel in the barrel expanding due to the heat.
@PROOF Research
Thanks for the test!
Always a fun of distraction 😊. Thanks guys❤
Thank you for watching!!
I love that stock!!
Send the barrel down to the titanic first and then try a 1000rds…. I said it!
So that’s where all the 140 grain 6.5 creed went!
We need to see you test a carbon barrel ar15. 1000 rd heat test!
omg this is exactly what I wanted to see. I always wonder what happen with high volume fire. I always stop when the chamber stainless part get hot to touch.
Very interesting! Thanks for doing this.
How long until barrel made from carbon fiber only? Possible?
Interesting experiment. I realize that you couldn’t do accuracy testing throughout the experiment, but I’m thinking you could have done before and after accuracy groupings.
Fair point
Still waiting for the TIMBR FRONTIER STOCK for the Savage action. Getting close to a year now, since you told me, it would be ready last. Just check your website for any updates and I didn’t even see the solid walnut stock you’re shooting here.
Y’all have awesome content, flat out cool
Interesting, thanks for sharing 😎
Would adding a thin metal feed ramp resolve the eject issue? Not a fabricator.
Thank you.
Well taking IR temperature reading from the outside of the carbon fiber jacket will not represent the temperature of the steel inner. Too bad you did not do a bore scope before and after views. I guess you cannot think of everything. Too many FTE and hard bolt lifts for me. I was wondering how thick the inner steel barrels were, and this showed it well.
Wish you flung some for groups before cutting it open. Wouldve been interesting
what temp was the brass? it may have been what was expanding most.
What is the point of the barrel in carbon?
If it was because of weight, changing the wood to composite would be a bigger weight benefit.
This barrel looks to be from proof research i believe
what about the temperature of the steel component of the barrel
The internal bore is a lot hotter for sure. Before cutting the barrel in half maybe should have tested for accuracy before and after cleaning, after it had cooled down completely.
Don't you guys have a 3 foot scope mount...? Sounds like the perfect opportunity to use it to shoot 100, 10-shot groups...
You could use the bullets pack pressure to charge a switch that open and closes the bipod or unipod
Could you do this with .233 or .308 in full auto/rapid fire?
Forget about the barrel, when can i buy that sweet wood mdt chassis?
Really wish you guys had tried to look at the temperature of the steel as opposed to the carbon fiber parts, those two have completely different heat expansion and heat absorption properties. I still will not run carbon fiber on any of my precision rifles.
If a Rem.700 type action/bolt is used and is fitted with their standard factory ring-clip type extractors, instead of custom Howa 1500/M16/Sako types of extractors: chances are this could well be the reason it leaves your fired cases in the chamber, as the chamber-wall starts to foul up, combined with a rather short camming surface and for this a weak extraction; it will put increased pressure on the extractor, so it tends to ride over the case-rimms! Hence these types of push/bump-feed actions will always pose a liability for its users in case of dangerous game hunting!
Nearly all aftermarket actions based on the rem700 use M16 style extractors… far better than anything else used by an OEM.
Extractor doesn't have anything to do with push vs controlled feed. 😂
@@leftyeh6495 No offence; as a gunmaker I advice you to re-educate yourself on this subject! Any bolts extractor design determines how the bolt-face is shaped and of which cartridge feed-type the individual bolt-action is and nothing else! Mausers, Pre-64 Win., Springfields, Arisaka’s & some others, mostly ex-military pre-& post WWI-II military BA-rifles have the long, extended (controlled rnd-feed) extractors along the bolt, combined with an open bottom bolt-face for ease of sliding each rnd individually under its extractor, while picking up & sliding it from its magazine!
Anything else with fully closed bolt-face and different short extractor are usually either push-/bump-feed or like in the case of the Sako 85, a semi-controlled rnd feed! There are other variations, but too complicated to get into that for the everage novice!
Forgive me, I’m new to PRS. Most PRS guys would never use a CFW barrel in a competition because of thermo dynamics and POI change. But he said there speed didn’t change. Would the POI change because the barrel harmonics change once the CFW gets warm enough, therefore causing that POI to move. Or is it just that PRS competitors want that extra weight of a big steel barrel?
Steel expands with heat. Thick heavy barrels expand like skinny barrels do, but at a much much slower rate per shot. They can absorb more rounds of heat and expand less per shot.
If there are any stresses in the metal, thermals will affect it and make it walk around as it warms up. The more it heats, the more it walks. Thick barrels heat slower.
Where did you find snow? its 107 out.
Is walnut going to be available soon?
With a bolt gun!? That can't be fun yo lol.
great video!
You missed the opportunity to collect data on accuracy. You could have waited until it cooled down and shot a couple of groups for us.
Accuracy would have been trash. There, I saved you the wondering.
That carbon fiber is keeping the heat in.
When can I get my hands on one of these bad ass walnut stocks?
Its like nails on a chalkboard when people say carbon fiber doesn't get as hot. It is the same temperature as the metal. It doesnt FEEL as hot because carbon fiber has a much lower thermal conductivity than metal. You cant feel temperature. You feel the rate at which energy enters or leave your body. It's slower with carbon fiber than metal, so it feels cooler.
Brass expanding?
Can you guys make this stock for savage 10 rifles?