Nerding Out over MR2 Engines with Justin Burnash from Prime Driven
Vložit
- čas přidán 23. 04. 2018
- Justin's MR2 shop: primedriven.com/
Coupon code: Regular
Merch:
Check out our hosts for RCR NZ: www.automationgame.com
Hats:
motoloot.com/products/regular...
Keytags :
motoloot.com/collections/regu...
Shirts, hoodies, stickers
www.redbubble.com/people/regul...
Patreon
/ regularcarreviews
How to submit a car
• Video - Auta a dopravní prostředky
This dude should publish this stuff, either online or a book - it would help to advance the cause of keeping the MR2 on the road. With other classic cars in the past, like 55-57 Chevys, making information and parts available helped those cars survive the crusher at a higher rate than other GM products, Fords, etc.
This stuff's all easily available if you try googling a bit on 3S-GTE and MR2 generations and whatnot. Still, I can agree that it would be nice to have it all in one place but a lot of this info is already out there.
/An ST165 GT-FOUR (Euro model, the Alltrac name is a US market-only oddity) owner
You. Sparf. Are you on the forums? A co-worker just bought a customer's ST165 and we're still trying to figure out the brakes. If you know the secret, please let me know.
I've used a lot of data from the MR2 community for my ST185 and there's even forums for Alltracs too. Check out the 3SGTE Power Primer to get an idea for the stages of performance modification.
'Secret' to brakes... Do you even have a manual? You probably have a general issue rather than model specific.
John Connor We work at ATS Racing. It's an MR2 specific shop. We know MR2's.
Yes we have a factory service manual and yes we bled the brakes as per the manual. ST165's have a model-specific issue where the brakes never seem to bleed properly. The majority of the fixes on the forums are just "keep bleeding and it will magically work."
The pedal hits a hard stop while bleeding only the left rear caliper. With all of the other calipers it goes all the way to the floor.
May want to check the smaller joiners for the brake lines- I have an AW11 that I just put stainless lines on, and it has several individual metal "joiners" between the external brake lines to the proportioning valve. You might have a leak somewhere in the line.
Be warned, mine had been overtightened from the factory and needed filing to fit, as the end mushroomed out. Between that, I can only think of attempting a gravity bleed, tho I have had no luck with those procedures.
Watching this video makes me happy to give Prime my money from time to time. It's not just Prime, but ATS, TwosRUs, MR2 Guru etc - very lucky for us MR2 owners there are passionate and knowledgable people out there helping keep our classics alive. I have a '93 NA and hope to do the 4th Gen Caldina swap soon.
Great stuff. I was pretty bummed out when the video cut out. This dude could totally do a DRIVE segment solely on the 3SGTE and I’m more than positive he’ll get a million plus views.
Love this.
Love your channel 🤙
Pushes up glasses "there was no ST205 All-trac, they were all GT-4s"
But in all seriousness this guy knows his shizz.
This information is what I needed in my teens. My first Toyota MR2 was a 1996 model year 3SGE dyno'd at 197hp stock. Didn't know those were really rare. My second MR2 was a 91 3SGE. That's when I learned that 93 models and above we're far superior. Wish I knew back then.
Ive liked cars ever since I was a little kid, but I never really payed too much attention to the mechanics of it. Like I know pistons and spark plugs and how to do oil changes, but mention double wishbone suspension or double overhead cams and I won't lie, I don't know much about those. Watching the first few minute or two of this vid, I feel like knowing cars better might be something I should dive into soon. One day!
Anyways, continuing with the video ^^
TechPassion never feel bad to ask. If someone breaks your stones for asking they're just being a ass and not someone who you might want to learn from anyway.
If you're wanting to learn more about that kind of stuff, I would highly recommend checking out Engineering Explained on youtube. He makes good, informative videos about the inner-workings of cars and the science/engineering behind them.
+1 for EE videos! Also If you want a more visual and "hands on" approach, I highly recommend the "Fuzzy Dice Projects" youtube channel. His budget chevy blazer build is beyond awesome, as he goes extremely in depth in rebuilding a chevy 350, among many other things. Great stuff!
Buy a banger and remember that Wikipedia is your friend, hang out with some older mechanics and you'll learn tips and tricks you never would have thought of
Two cams over the head of the engine :)
Fun fact: The JGTC Supras used MR2 engine blocks, not their road going straight sixes. Those cast iron fours were strong as hell.
Matt Farah says the MR2 spyder with a 2ZZ is a better Elise, but the Elise has more cargo capacity. That’s kinda funny how the lotus can carry more than the Toyota.
Phos9. Thats an odd point to focus on when deciding whats the better mid engined sports car.....
That's definitely not true.
MR2 Spyder Journal does the spyder have a trunk I don’t know about?
Phos9 no trunk just an extra large storage compartment behind the seats.
I drove a spyder recently. Cute little thing but I didn't like the tranny. Maybe just specific to this one and while it worked just fine.. it just felt mushy with a lot of play. I don't like mushy sticks.
Loving the new influx of SW20-love. In the UK, we were only offered the 3SGE or 3SFE for the mk2.
Yeah but it was easy for us to import from Japan until about 08 and with them being rhd easier to own. Bought my 96 rev 4 GTS direct from Japland and other than a 6 month wait to get it on the road it was quite an easy experience.
He didn't even get into the 3S-GE engine generations
Indeed, very under rated sports car engine that's always in the shadow of the 4AGE and 3S-GTE.
Didn’t even mention the rarer beams engine.
I guess because they are europian? Mine is also a 3sge would love to know more about it
BEAMS motors really do get overshadowed. I'm wanting a 2GR for power and ease of parts, but I can definitely see why with Speed Academy's Celica why you would want a BEAMS.
the 3sge was never available in the mr2, only the celica.
You explained the Toyota chassis/engine numbers WAAAAAAY more complicated than it needs to be. Toyota chassis numbers have 4 parts. A block letter(s), a chassis type, a chassis generation number and a chassis version number. So an SW20 has an S block engine, a W type chassis, second generation, 1st version. An AW11 is A block, W chassis type, first gen, second version.
Now for motors. the number is the generation. The letter(s) are the block type. and then the GTE or C or GZE etc tells you what head and fuel system and NA/turbo/supercharger etc. So the 3S-GTE is 3rd rev S block with a G head, turbo, injection. A 5S-FE is a 5th rev, F head, injected. A 4A-gze is 4th rev, A block, g head, Supercharged, injected.
These designations do NOT mean that everything is interchangable but often if its a similar chassis type and generation or block type you can bolt various combinations of parts from other engines and cars onto them and itll work.
Also when he is talking about Gens it references the revisions they made to the engines. They are not reflected in the chassis or engine codes.
It's not nerding out if you make it simple.
lol true
Really nice to see the MR2 get so much coverage by Mr. Regular. Not terribly surprising, but nice :)
pulling off a Kevin Smith look
also it looks like this interview was done in a doctors office
That ringtone sounds like the intro to a fat vapor wave beat, very MR2
Justin is incredibly helpful and informative, and I'm proud to be running his Gen4 swap kit in my MkII MR2. Clean, complete, and worth every penny.
His hat is Gary the Snail Turbo, I love it.
Also I have nothing but good to say about PrimeDriven. They really are a great resource for all Gens. They have reasonable prices and the customer service is great. I sent them a video about a problem with my MR2 and I got a reply immediately walking through the problem before I even bought a part. Living in the northeast is also an extra perk, you get your parts within a few days.
fortheloveofcake93 lmao their pricing is a joke they straight rip off everybody who buys from them
My favourite thing in videos is when a phone rings and nobody even acknowledges it.
Prime Performance (or Prime Driven) is an awesome shop. Maybe the best shop I've ever dealt with. They did a full 3S-GTE swap into my MR2 turbo after the engine seized up. Justin is a cool guy and made the whole experience easy
"What is with the fucking phones!? Get em out of here!" - Burnie Burns
People like phones.
HRB THROW THEM OUT OF THE GOD DAMMED OFFICE!
Prime should expand to sell restored mr2s as well as giving them away because that blue mr2 is hot as hell and these guys clearly know their stuff. I would definitely buy that car if it was for sale.
You guys need to talk to a GM engineer about the LS/LT platform and get the deets on that.
This would go for all their major engine production runs. Not only like 3 or 4 VIN variants built to a particular style of block, but you'd possibly have 3 or 4 revisions of each depending on year or model. Any mechanic ignorant of this could very easily order the wrong parts if they're not paying attention. (Something like the LD2 on its own had 3 different style intake manifolds, changes to the chain and tensioner, and early in the run there wasn't even an EGR system.)
However when it comes to American cars people usually only know a platform by the reputation of either the best or worst powertrain that could come with it, and tended to ignore the rest. (Result being a toss-up between overhyped or underappreciated depending on what stuck first.)
Love the snail cap.
Were you sitting in a high chair or just standing over him doing this interview haha
oo7squid levitating. It's a regular phenomenon.
I could listen to this all day!
This guy is an encyclopedia
The Prime Driven guys should set up their own YT channel about their shop, parts, work and info on MR2's. I'd be an instant subscriber.
Subscribed because of some reasons, youtube suddenly put mr2 vids on my recommendations. Idk why but this pushed me to buy an sw20 as my first car. May you guys bless me to control that oversteer. ✌
My beater (96 camry) has a 5S-fe in it. She ain’t quick, but she’s damn reliable. 228k miles and she still runs like new
I've got the 5S-FE in my ST204 Celica. Solid engine, you can fix it with a paperclip and a 10mm socket. Definitely not fast, but it does still pull pretty well!
We need more similar episodes to this tech talk !!!! Like a tech talk playlist about popular tuner engines !!!
Ending left me hanging there, will there be a part 2?
Gen 4 got the coil on plugs instead of a distributor and got the little CT15B turbos
Is there a longer version of this edit?
this was very interesting thank you
I thoroughly enjoy this.
Speaking of Toyota engines, what was the 2 liter 16 valve engine used in the european Carina II? my brother had one with said engine was a perky little 121 hp engine.
I just 4rth gen my 92 hardtop. I can’t wait.
There's a reason some information should be relayed visually - as in a table rather than only talked about.
The USDM MR2 Turbo actually topped out at 11.8psi of boost from the factory, not 8psi.
yess more mr2 content!!
Nooo why’d the video cut! I need MORE 😁
Casting couch?
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
The difference between the 5s-fe in the Camry and Celica is that the camry had two valves per cylinder and the Celica had four. The good thing is if you were like me at 16 and wanted to say you had a Celica engine in your camry is that swapping the two is the easiest thing.
I've got 276k on my 91T with the Gen 2. All I've done to the engine is throw in a huge Autolab (rip) intercooler with a Spal puller fan, car never crests 200F.
The st205 was never an " alltrac " it was Only gt4 ( with wrc/ group a rallye as the homologation option for world rally championship ). The caldina was never sold as a factory option in New Zealand or Australia but only as a grey import option .
If you are ever in Australia you can have a go in my group a st205 gt4 if you want for a review . Its not stock though .
wrcgt4. Alltrac was just toyotas awd system, it was only used as a model name in the US iirc so when someone outside the US says celica alltrac its a general term for all the awd turbo celicas.
I think st205 gt4 is the finale for RCR NZ you see it in the automation plug at the beginning of each video.
It'll be interesting how he likes the hem one . Mines a genuine group a . Number one of 4 left in their wrc allocations
i trust this man
Well explained sir... :)
We need Justin on a podcast.
Reminds me of my days on the Club4AG forums. Good times...
id love to see regulars reaction to a trd2000gt
Caldina Wasn't sold here (NZ or Aus) new, they are all imports out of Japan. Sold in Japan new only
i could listen to this guy talking MR2 for all day
does he do ZZW30 stuff aswell?
Sounds Like RCR hit another vein of gold... Find the knowledgeable and nerd out till the cows come home. Nissan and GM nerds/engineers for volume 2?
The Toyota Caldina was a JDM model only, if you go to any country other than Japan and see one then it's a Gray import.
Caldina GTT and ST205 celica are the same aside from the last run of the caldina (which lasted after the celica GTFour)
(afaik)
Dude looks like he was held hostage in the opening
Toyota Caldina wasn't ever sold in Australia by Toyota. It was a "grey import" by third parties. Unsure but the same may be true for New Zealand.
i really want to see some more celicas on rcr, we need the mr2s frontwards sister
wait i forgot theres probably gonna be one in rcrnz, im assuming thats the grand finale
Freaking hope so. Im restoring a st184 and Celicas are my niche. Very hard to find a not crashed st185 here in AZ that's not imported.
What about the beams versions ?
He didn't even touch the 3S-GE subject :P
Would have been nice if he'd gone into the big issue with Gen 3 blocks being poorly cast and cracking even at low power levels. Pretty important thing to mention even now that almost everyone's swapping in Gen 4 motors instead due to availability.
Sparf it's hit and miss with the gen3 . Wrc / group a 205s got hand picked blocks tho they still can have that cracking problem. Mine personally was perfect when stripped down and had r in 18psi all it's life . It was rebuilt and now will be producing over 500hp , and I've seen examples here in Australia run over 500hp and even I to the 600s. Ideally the late gen3 or the gen4 is better yes or even the 5sfe or 3sfe block.
I've not read or heard that anywhere before so color me highly skeptical even if there are builds that do fine with Gen 3 blocks. A lot of talk about the WRC/Group A online borders on the mythical too which makes me a bit vary when there's mention of anything mechanically different other than the inactive anti-lag and water spray systems.
I'm putting in an eBay-bought JDM ST205 engine + trans in my ST165 right now and I'll be chucking the block in the bin the second I decide to up the power since I haven't been able to date it. Right now I'm just gonna get it to run but after that it's '98+ 5S-FE block time for sure. In addition to reliability it's a street car so I'm building it for low- and mid-range anyway.
Mate you need to learn about the e153 and the 5sgte. Also the mighty e503 legendary 3sgte... You'll appreciate the mr2 even more
didnt the NA Mr2 come with a 3SGE in japan and europe?
yes i believe so
Yes, because the US has terrible emissions laws other companies don't feel like homologating their cars too they just slapped a low performance 5S into the US SW21s and gave other countries the super awesome 3S
There are actually generations of the Small Block Chevrolet engine; the first generation SBC ran from 1955 to 1998, the second generation (also known as the first generation LT1) ran from 1992 to 1997. The third generation ran from 1995 to 2007 (the first generation of LS Freedom) the fourth generation ran from 2008 to 2014 (the second and final generation of LS Freedom) and finally we have the fifth generation which runs from 2014 to the present day (this is actually the second generation of LT1)
The LS is as much a third generation Chevy small block as the coyote is a third generation Windsor.
Third gen? I thought the LS was built from the ground up to replace the titular small block to meet emissions requirements.
Also, you're forgetting all the different types and mid-designs of the 350 chevy- oldsmobile 350s, for instance, used different water pump housings.
6PrinceofDarkness6 the LS actually uses the same bore spacing and rod bearings as the original Small Block .
Need help fellow mr2 owners! I swapped a '99 JDM 3sge into my '93 LHD SW20. DIdn't know about the immobilizer since mine doesn't have it so now I'm fkd; electrician can't "delete" the immobilizer and I don't have it! Have wiring looms and ecu's for both engines, I'm missing just the immo. and the """"ecu"""" below the steering wheel(don't know what's it called in english), what are my next steps beside a stand-alone which I can't afford atm?? Car just cranks, doesn't wanna start and I really wanna finish it for the summer since I invested a lot and still can't drive it.. .. Apreciate any help!
Do you *know* it's the immobilizer?
First, get onto an MR2 specific forum if you aren't, and then try to find out how you can confirm that it *is* that immobilizer. I am not exprienced with old (80s-90s) toyota ECUs, but I DO know that current 2GR ECUs once immobilized have to be completely replaced. So hunt for info from forumites before shelling out the hundreds on a "new" ECU and potentially making the same mistake.
I AM 99% sure it's the immo., everything points towards it but keep in mind I have no knowledge of electronics, it's just what I read from the internet.. ..
I gave my ECU to a company that is specialized in fixing ECU's and tuning, I will have more info today.. .. WIsh I found that company sooner, would save me a lot of time.
They said that there is an option that the immo. will not be removable and in that case I'll have to buy a stand alone ECU which would mean anothe Two-less summer.. ..
About the forums, I can't remember my password for mr2oc, I'll have to make a new account and post there.
I made FB just because of MR2 related groups, gonna post there once I'm off work
4age is God....just a really old God.
agreed the 2zz was the sucessor but we need a good 4 banger that revs high from toyota-yamaha ....
3520xdxd nothing is sweeter that the sound of a 4 banger screaming to 8k+ rpm....to me at least.
I love me a mr2 2zz at 8200rpm.. but i do love me other engines. epsically inline 5 engines. like volvo or audi
3520xdxd I was just showing my roommates vids of those yesterday. The sound of seks!
used to own a inline 5 volvo. Great engines, miss her already....
I'm going to soruce all my metrial from this guy when I get my mr2. However I wanna keep it na.
a minuite and a half in and i'm already lost
you can count on me watching this video at least 3 times
rev 3 with acs intakes made 174BHP
Best 3s-ge.
Luv and Peace.
What happened to the camera car Goldie?
In the thumbnail I thought that was Lew from Unbox Therapy
Watching in 2020
I love my 4AGE!
He said the Gen 2 is the only one we got. Not true. We also got the Gen 1.
should've just stuck with the 4age, lol.
Also, REVIEW MY 92 TRUENO PLEEEASE
Discussing esoteric designations to intentionally cloud a subject most people don't know anything about isn't "nerding". Explaining why the 5SFE is what it is, and breaking it down (5th gen S engine, economy head etc. etc.) vs the 3SGTE (3rd Gen S with performance head, turbocharged); the differences in GE/GTE/GZE, what it all means and why...
That would be nerding out.
This is just a fast-paced discussion, rattling off nomenclatures specific to a single car brand. And sure, GM does this too. Just not as blatant about it. Akin to Toyota reducing the name, 4AGZE, to " The 4A" with internal designations not shared in advertising/spec sheets. I.E. "We have the 1988 MR2 with a supercharged 4A engine." It's internally known as the 4AGZE, but that's a spaghetti of a name and trips people up when explaining the car to someone "not in the know"...
It's pretty easy to lose someone in 3 words when talking "Toyota" but this isn't anything new.. BMW engines are just as crazy. M52tuB25, S62tuB50, S52b32US.. There's nothing really different there when you get into the nitty gritty. And honestly. People outside the brand don't care unless they hear "TWO JAY..."
K is the way
I love my 2ZZ
My head hurts..... lol. very interesting though!!!
Seth Rogan knows all about MR2s!
Choc full o nuts coffee 11am Starbucks double shot espresso at 8pm watching this at 4am presentation tomorrow 1pm. Grad school
4age 20v here.
is that gary the snail on his hat
But it's only a ROYAL FIZZBIN except on Fridays.........
O ok
I thought it was unbox therapy lol
Ya so Ive got an SW20 with a jdm 3rd gen 3sGTE
I need to turbo swap so bad. The 5SFE sucks!
That first two minutes didn't make sense. Most have a chassis code and engine code, even his example of 'most manufactures using them as one and the same' showed the chassis and engine codes to be unique. This goof aside, some incredible information from this dude on Toyota.
Check out Fiero motorswap culture
4am hello
NOT ONE OF US!
Good video but gosh the camera angle is throwing me off.
this dude is TWEAKIN
he said gm designations different from toyotas....then described the exact same thing
I see now why you made that statement about MR2 cooling being "poor" when it really isn't. Shifting topics from engine coolant to intercooler... These are two totally separate unrelated issues.
I am early.
Hey Mr. Regular, want to drive an AW11 with a "junkyard" Gen2 3S? Right now it's only making 258 rwhp but when I go flex fuel I should be able to push it up to ~330 rwhp on the ATS CT27. Maybe someday I'll go up to a 3067 and hit 400-450, or a 3071 and hit 450-500, but in this little chassis, 300 is plenty.
i n t e n s e - s t a r e
*lots of letters and numbers*
best mr2 engine is a k24