Diesel Insights: Stock Vs. 64 Vs. 67 Turbo
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2024
- Nick Priegnitz walks us through things to take into consideration when looking to upgrade your turbo charger. While most of us drool at numbers, there are a slew of factors to consider when making that purchase.
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Diesel Insights, KNOWLEDGE IS POWER! - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Ford tech here, just wanted to mention that this is a great video! Nice to see some accurate information laid out smooth and efficiently. I'll be pointing customers here when the get that HP/ TQ itch to help understand what works and why. Thanks for taking the time, I'm subscribed.
From a Ford guy!
Yea me too and I drive a f250
This literally answered every question I had about upgrading my turbocharger. Great video 👍🏼
You are one of the few shops that take the time to explain the theory in turbo performance that bigger isn’t always better for Diesel engines and matching the right parts for its intended use... It reminds me of the old days with people hot roding gas engines and always wanting a big camshaft because it sounded cool with the “lopey Idle” but would give up a ton of drivability and performance when matching the wrong camshaft to the rest of the engine and application use! Great video!
This was great advice. Thank you for putting it in real world examples.
Nice video. To many guys are buying big turbos not realizing the sacrifices that come with it. I years ago, was one of those guys. Great info!
Thanks for the video. I had a basic understanding of turbos. Now, I have much better understanding.
Very informative! I’ve been wondering which turbo to upgrade to with my LBZ and you’ve answered my questions! 🙏🏻
Great video! I feel relieved I kept my valley charger stock and added a precision 67mm on my f250.
Great educational video. Thanks!
Great video. Thanks for sharing.
The best no bullshit heads up video/section there is
Great video. I was thinking of going with the 67 on my lml but I think I’ll be changing that to a 64 Or compound.
Good info Nick 👍
Compressor wheel and turbine wheel design are huge not just size. Wheel profile , extended tip , slim hub , then the pressure your looking to make will dictate how many blades youll have 11+0 5+5 6+6 and AR and wastegate size to combat back pressure. There so much more to consider .
Great vid thx
Great video
At what point should I worry about larger new injectors? Will the factory injectors suffice with the Stealth 64? I have a FASS 100 Signature Series lift pump and the Edge Tuner tune on a '15 LML.
Great videos and thank you! Took the air horn off my new to me '07 5.9 to change the oil filter and realized the turbine on the stock turbo is really chewed up. Looks like something made its way through there, and I cant believe it didn't grenade. So based on your recommendations it sounds like going back with a stock turbo might be best for a stock engine, daily driver, occasional RV towing, and no smoke wanting truck...? Thanks for any insight and I need to give you guys a call.
The 3rd Gen Stealth 64 would be a really good option for you. Improved EGT control, a little more peak power potential, upgraded components to increase reliability.
What's your take on 11balde compressor wheels vs others?
Could you do a video on sizing compounds turbos for different applications?
We finally made a video about this. It should be published soon.
czcams.com/video/oSdusJZG9AU/video.html&lc=z23xtjzohyfeejki104t1aokgt3uulxem32eigwdned3bk0h00410.1573765850863649&feature=em-comments
Hey! I have an LLY with EFI live, 45% over injectors and CP3 pump from Lincoln diesel. Welded y-bridge and a lift pump with the stock turbo. The best way I can describe the sound it is making would be, it sounds like a really bad spark knock (ping) When I first had the injectors and CP3 pump done, I just figured that was the way bigger injectors sound. But sometimes it just sounds really bad. My balance rates are all within range. I even took it to diesel fuel systems in Bangor Maine and had it reflashed. They didn't seem to think anything sounded weird. Does this sound like an air/fuel mix problem? I've checked for any boost leaks and I haven't found anything. It's really irritating 🤣
Thanks! Keep up the good work!
How much different is the spool-up of the 64 from stock and the 67 from the 64 in the VVT models? I have a 2007 LBZ that I’m going to be studding and adding some fuel soon and can’t decide if I want the 64 or 67, planning on around 650 to the wheels (stock bottom end) and tow somewhat regularly (anywhere from 3-12k lbs) and all at 4500+ elevation. Both maintain the turbine brake so that’s a plus
I’m so torn on which one . Can someone give some fees back. I have a 2011 LML Fass 165 Dtuner tunes all emissions intact, S&B intake stock injectors. I only drive the truck maybe once a week for fun to hot Rod and mainly tow our 5th wheel 14k lbs . Torn between the 64 or the 67 stealth , only want to do the job once and when I do will most likely install the Exergy 10m CP4 as suggested by Dtuner .
Thanks
Correct me if I'm wrong but is that the same turbo as the 6.0 but with water cooling
got 1968 chevelle wagon with lbz and as it is "light weight" and has minimal townging the 67mm would be a perfect? if i wanna do compound setup should the secondary bigger turbo be way bigger than 67mm?
Quick question is this a still the case with the vgt turbos?
I’ve got a 2012 lml with stock gearing and 37s but I want a bigger turbo. I’m not into the super whistly turbos, I like the sound of my stock lml charger I just want more HP. You say a 64 is not good because it would be lugging too much correct? What would be a good option for me?
I daily my truck. Not much towing honestly, but I like driving it instead of babying it. Get it out on the weekends. Would I be justified in buying a 67 over a 64 for “fun”?
Hey y’all great video Like always never disappointed! I have a lmk with yalls built 750 trans could you talk about heat in built trans bc I live in Texas and would see 190f in traffic and the 83F out side.... thank y’all again!!!!
I think they all run hot in city traffic
100 degrees above ambient temperature is what we expect for normal trans temps.
Get a deep pan and bigger tranny cooler if you're worried. But 190 is still safe
I have a cummins and I’m getting my fleece cheetah 63 mm switched to a 67 mm titan on stock fuel ez link tuning do you think that would run right I don’t tow and if I do it’ll be like 4 maybe 5 hundred lbs but I do have a 6 inch lift and 35s on 20 inch rims do you think it would still run good with that 67 mm turbo
This may be a dumb question here but I’m new to the turbo game here and I’ve watched all the videos I could find but no one ever says anything about upgraded the cooling system (radiator/ inter cooler). Is it safe to assume stock cooling system works well with this application?
Could you guys do a sound comparison of the 64 and the 67 vs the stock sound?
One year later still waiting ... lol
@@KP0117 2🤣
Sounds like a bog ol spoolie boy!!!
"WWHHRRRRRRRRRRRR"
@@KP0117 3 yrs later 😂
3 years & 9 months later😮
Awesome video. When you talk about spool up... 14, 16, 1800rpm, what kind of fueling is behind that? Daily tune, tow tune, race tune?
We try to baseline spool up testing at stock HP and then with a big tune.
Hey Nick, great video! I have kind of a rare truck that I’m going to start building soon. It’s an 06’ LLY/(LBZ) 4x4 dually with the ZF-6 manual trans. I absolutely love the truck and want more out of it. After watching this video, I’d love to run a twin-turbo set up on it, but have some reservations. I know these years of duramax could have the bad (prone to failure) pistons. Please advise me on the route you would move forward with my truck if you were me. Thanks again, and have great week!
Thanks for watching! The LBZ pistons can be a bit of a crapshoot. In our experience though, leaving the truck maxing out at around 600 HP will give you the best mix of limiting risk and adding power. Granted we have come across LBZ pistons under stock HP, but we have also had 750 HP stock bottom end LBZ trucks run for a long time. In short, twin it and see what happens.
@@Duramaxtuner BH7
How does this apply to vgt turbos.
I need help with large tyres
Please do a video on compound setups. And if we can use your 64 or 67 together or with stock etc. I will be buying a compound by the end of this year but honestly don't understand it completely yet. Thanks for the great videos.
czcams.com/video/DYO1K-hhuqw/video.html
czcams.com/video/0NlMWqXbLdI/video.html
These 2 videos should help you out.
They do alot. But I'd like to know the difference in the 64/s480 67/s480 64/stock and even bigger. Pretty much what do I need to get to 1000-1200 rwhp. North Carolina bound. Tow a good bit mostly 12-14k for work. But want to play on the strip also. What kit will suit this for the instant boost and those numbers reliably. All supporting mods are in place now. I just don't necessarily understand the difference in the setups (like mentioned above) yet.
I have a 2007.5 6.7 Cummins should I go 64 or 67? Need to know since I’m gonna do it soon!
What are your goals with the truck? Give us a call, and we can easily answer that over the phone. 815-568-7920. Thanks!
With the ppe high flow exhaust manifold and up pipes this should reduce the turbo surge rev range because the exhaust manifold flows 20% more air? Like say i have the 2" ppe high flow exhaust manifold and up pipes with a 3" downpipe and 3" y bridge intercooling and intake kit with the stealth 64, would it spool up like stock or faster than stock then?
We did not see the reduction in surge proness with the manifold upgrade. With all the air flow upgrades you mention it is likely you would spool-up noticeably quicker.
I have a 2005 5.9 H.O. 2500 cummins, i bought it with a 4 inch straight pipe, cold air banks intake and leveled. Its a 4x4, im getting 35 inch tires and is my daily driver but tow a 25 foot gooseneck but not often. Im planning on getting the mm3 tuner. Qhich would be the best tumer for me? 64 or 67? I want to be able to have the hp there for fun times but mainly keep it easy on the road.
We'd say if you only tow a few times a Summer the 67 is your best bet. Give us a call, 815-568-7920 if you have any questions.
Hi Nick, Wondering if I could get your recommendations, I cant decide to go with a 64 or 67. I would like to keep the exhaust/turbo brake but not a must. I have a 2016 lml, full delete, fass 150. Running 24x14 on 35s with stock gears. I drive the truck about 3-4 times a week. I dont tow much, maybe 10 times a year. Im doing a cp3 conversion soon, probably going with a 10mm pump. Would your 64 or 67 be better for me? Honestly just want to gap other trucks lol
Do the 67G2 model. Both the 64 and 67G2 retain the turbine brake, the 67G2 is just going to give you more room to go bigger in the future.
Question. ATS offers a 61mm turbo as an upgrade (the Aurora 3000 i believe). What would be the benefits of going this route? Obviously super quick spool up, but wouldnt this also create too much egt / over all engine heat?
Quicker spool generally means less top end. Check out the Cummins Turbo Shootout we did a few years ago. blog.duramaxtuner.com/blog/calibrated-power-cummins-turbo-shootout
So how does the turbo choice impact a manual truck? I drive an 04.5 cummins 6 speed manual and I recently purchased the mm3 from you guys and I love it! Can't speak highly enough and very happy I went with you. I am now looking into a turbo and was thinking about the 67. Is that to big for stock fuel? It's a dually with 34's and I really only tow my boat on a rare occasion. What would be a good choice?
I would say the impact is greater because you (based on drive and circumstances) loose rpm and boost between shifts
Spool-up is going to be the biggest impact on you. Like Cody said, your RPMs and boost change much more dramatically than an automatic. You need something that is going to respond quickly to keep up with banging gears.
So you think the 67 would be a better choice?
@@gates2122 Depending on your boat and how hard of trip it is on the trailer, the 67 would be great for you to grow into (you can always throw more fuel at it down the road). If you are never going to upgrade the fuel system, save yourself some money and go with the 64.
OK excellent. I am planning to upgrade injectors when they start going out. Thanks a lot for all the help. You guys rock!
Would changing the turbine wheel alter the performance? I have a stock 08 and looking for a little extra.
You want the compressor wheel and turbine wheel matched.
I hope this wasn't already asked. I couldn't find it in the comments. Do you know if the edge cts3 tuner will ruin a stock LML turbo? Should I upgrade to the 64? How do these affect exhaust braking? I do tow a 30 foot 5th wheel but i would put it in tow setting for that and when I'm not towing I'd like to try and get those 75-130 hp gains on occasion but don't want to mess up the turbo and such. Thank you for any help. Sorry for sounding like such a newbie (which I am).
We use the Edge Insight CTS3 as a monitor only but, we have not had any reports of their canned tuning ruining turbos. You should upgrade to the Stealth 64 regardless. They run better and are capable of making more power. The exhaust brake works exactly as it does from the factory. Upgrading to our custom tuning would allow you to run a tow tune when your towing and then turn the power up when you're unhooked with just the switch of a dial. Give us a call if you would like to talk more about your specific situation.
Would the 64 work well at high elevation long grades (Colorado) if rpms were kept up? I like to keep the rpm 2300+ up the long steep grades. Or is a twin set up the only way to go?.
A twin setup is always going to perform better in that specific situation. However, if you could keep the RPMs in the range you reference it should work well if you're not towing really heavy.
Stock internals lmm, would it be best to go compounds? I've heard going this way with these stock engines is what can grenade stuff due to such instant high torque compoundsmake.
Would like to know as well
For someone interested in towing primarily, we don't see the same level of risk for engine failure. Ont he other hand, guys that have a twin set and like to do burnouts, shit can go wrong quickly. We have had several customers run a long time with 750 RWHP with a stock bottom end and we have had guys short a rod or crack a piston at 500 RWHP. Twin kits do bring on higher drive pressures at low RPM, but if you're towing that shouldn't really be happening all that often.
Great thanks for info! I'd love a compound set up but 95% of the time I drive like a grandpa because fuel got expensive. But you know the odd Honda or sports car I beat the shit out of the truck Haha. I'll stay away from compounds!
You're a very knowledgeable man when it comes to turbos!!! If a guy's wastegate was very hard to actuate(actuator rod unhooked) would you suggest a new exhaust housing? Or would you be able to replace the wastegate
It would depend on what you find during a tear down. Hopefully you can get away with just replacing the wastegate.
@@Duramaxtuner thanks for getting back to me! And thanks for the info
I have a 06 5.9 3/4 ton I've put a 4" mandrel bent ex. And Cfm air plenum and ats exhaust manifold and a banks six gun tuner, it's a six speed manual trans,, and I pull a 20 ft trailer with a tractor allot want a good Daily driver 64 or 67 ??
If you tow a bit, we'd suggest the 64.
I have 2011 LML that was rebuilt with a CP3 conversion, and a stage 1 Garrett Powermax. At around 6000ft elevation, the drivability is nowhere near as good as the stock turbo was. Great for regular street driving, but boost/hp drop off significantly when the truck shifts into 4th/5th. If I don't back off the pedal, it also smokes like a freight train. I'm planning on going back to stock... SOON.
Interesting. Thanks for the feedback from where you are located.
Hey nick! What’s up my man seems like you really know your facts on a lot of things so I’m hoping you can give me and answer and I will go based off of your opinion on what I should do. So I have a 2009 GMC Sierra 2500 on a 6” lift and on 35’s. I have a full deletion on my truck through HSP diesel. I have a freshly built engine that’s rated for 700hp but I am not looking to be racing the truck I just want to daily it, tow my rv every now and then but I still want to have some more power. I have a stock transmission, stock injectors, I run a 95gph. I want to run a upgraded turbo and I’m wondering what do you recommend me doing or which turbo to install in my truck.
Thanks! I have a few more questions before giving any recommendations. Are your EGTs currently an issue? Any other temps rising? Is a built transmission in your future?
Duramaxtuner no sir egts are fine. I’m running a 5” exhaust,3” down pipe and I also replaced the pinched exhaust manifold to a full bore after I did all that it made a hell of a difference. If I have to yes sir
@@TexxasPapi You don't have to build the trans, unless you want more peak power. The Stealth 64 is going to give you everything you need.
Duramaxtuner okay! Do you stock any? I want some with upgrade vanes as well if possible should help correct
@@TexxasPapi Yeah, we should. Give us a call (815-568-7920) or visit our website: duramaxtuner.com
I surge with a stock turbo on a tuned truck. What is the cause?
What intake do you have? What driving conditions are occurring when the turbo surges?
I have a 5.9 Cummins and I tow 10k camping trailer in Washington State where there are hills and mountains, what would you suggest I do? Upgrade or leave stock?
Upgrading to the 64 (when matched with high quality custom tuning) should result in a better towing experience.
Would I have to change anything if I put the 64 in my l5p
That would not work. We have an L5P Stealth 67G2 on pre-sale right now. That is a direct drop-in. You can feel free to give us a call and learn more about it. 815-568-7920
Hey I wanna a turbo for an 08 duramax
My turbo surges with out towing for some reason
i bought your stealth 64 for a 2013 lml how much boost should i be putting out. minimax tuner deleted cold air intake and a lift pump
Here is our SPEC Sheet: f.hubspotusercontent00.net/hubfs/1747108/Stealth/LML%2064/LML%20Stealth%2064%20Spec%20Sheet%201.0.pdf
Hello l have a 97 ram 3500 what turbo you recommend to buy I use for work when trailer 16 feet long but I want to pull and horse trailer to small
Here is what you need: duramaxtuner.com/turbo-chargers/stealth-series/hx35-stealth-64.html
Are you guys planning to do any 6.7 cummins turbo swaps?
The 4th Gen turbo is in our sights for the future.
@@Duramaxtuner id like to see THAT! I just swapped my stock charger in my 6.7 cummins with a fleece cheetah & I'm ecstatic about it!! So much more power & sooooo much whistle! Good video
I want 650 hp out of my lb7. I have efi live tuning from a cranked here in Wisconsin. I just cant swing the money for head studs and a turbo for a while since I'm in college but one day I'll have my dream truck. If my damn kidneys dont act up that would be even better Haha.
That's the limit of the rods so pushing it for sure
What does it sound like when your turbo blows I was driving 2013 6.6 and my exhaust noise doubled and a lot of clanking
It sounds like "whiiiclunkstleclunkbangpopwhistlebangpop"
JK, they usually make a large pop or a lot of metal on metal if the compressor wheel makes contact with the compressor cover.
I feel like this was very informative, but I'm even more confused. I daily my truck but when I tow, i tow heavy so I'm thinking twins is the direction I need to go.
You simply can't beat the drivability of a properly sized twin kit.
Twins, and compound are two different set ups. I would do a compound set up.
Twins means you have the engine exaust gas directly pushing two turbos at the same time. However compound turbo feeds exaust from your primary into the secondary/atmosphere turbo.
@@wantu2much thanks
@@wantu2much Right but Nick seemed to refer to compounds as both in the video
Ok, we actually get this a lot. 1st of all, twins (for our purposes here, twins and compounds are the same things) will always work the best for towing heavy. Also, if we set you up with something like the s475/stocker twin kit you won't have to sacrifice anything for daily driving.
If I drop one of these 64 or 67 in my already tuned truck would I need to retune it? Just has a basic Eco or tow tune now.
What year/make/model truck?
@@Duramaxtuner 2011 dmax 2500, with slight oversized tires
The 64 would work without retuning, the 67 works best with an updated tune.
@@Duramaxtuner thanks alot appreciate help.
Would you have to retune with a 64 g2?
Not on an LB7
@@Duramaxtuner Why wouldn't you need to retune the ecm on an LB7 if you added that turbo? I'm looking at a 64mm turbo for my lb7 from ryan's diesel service. My truck isn't tuned, and I didn't really want to tune it for a while. I just put a lot into head gaskets and studs for my engine. It's tore down right now and my stock turbo is a bit wore out, so I want to replace it. Instead of going for another stock turbo, I wanted a bit bigger performance turbo, but I didn't want to tune it. I'm not looking for big power numbers. My trans is stock. Very rarely do I go over 2100 rpm. What's the reason he wouldn't have to retune his LB7 with a 64g2?
06 cummins, EFI LIVE 90 over injectors tim moye built transmission bilit input/output/ 2400 triple disc stall, No towing.06 sport, 410 non slip, 11.5 rear. Dyno at 550,/600 1100/1200 torq on 44's 64 or 67???? Daily drive only 4 days a week. Ran 14.21 on 40's with stock turbo. Stock turbo seems to run out of steam at 30 psi 2500 ram, 64? 67?
With those tires and daily driving, I would suggest a 64. If you wanted more power down the road you can use it in a compound kit. Yes the 67G2 could be used but the 64 likely will get you up and moving in traffic and off the line.
We need some stealth options gor the 6.7 2020s
LETS GOOOOOOOOOOO
6.7 Ford or Ram?
I’d like to put a 67 in my 5.0 Cummins.
I am new to diesels and just bought a 2006 LBZ duramax. The turbo is out of it and I am wonder what to replace it with. It is getting an egr delete and a set of 33s with a efi live tune. What turbo would you all recommend with keeping the stock trans.
Sounds like the VVT Stealth 64 is going to be right for you. duramaxtuner.com/turbo-chargers/stealth-series/stealth-67g2-vvt-turbo.html
@@Duramaxtuner Its just a little higher than I would like to spend
@r2d23678 Woops: duramaxtuner.com/turbo-chargers/stealth-series/vvt-stealth-64.html
@@lonelyfarmer3486 My bad, wrong link: duramaxtuner.com/turbo-chargers/stealth-series/vvt-stealth-64.html
duramaxtuner.com/turbo-chargers/stealth-series/vvt-stealth-64.html
2700rpm in 4th gear.....up an 8% grade.. . While floored. ..... Wouldn't that put you at about 98 miles an hour towing a gooseneck..... uphill?..... do the 48re Transmissions have a 5th gear im forgetting about? LOL great info though thanks
Think more Allison and less 48re. :)
Hi, Nick quick question, What turbo setup above a stock turbo will give you the best mileage a twin set up or 64 or the 67 without pulling a load Thanks.
We have plenty of guys that have maintained the same MPG with the Stealth 64G2 as the stock turbo.
I was looking at the Fleece Cheetah 63mm drop in for my LB7 Duramax . I currently have it tuned with Banks 6 Gun and have many mods including bigger intercooler, boost tubes , and much more. My tunes now defuel before every shift to prevent transmission damage but I was wondering if i put a 63mm drop in will I need any other supporting transmission mods ?
One, we strongly suggest taking a look at our LB7 Stealth 64G2 Turbo. Also, custom tuning is going to be a big improvement for you. Our SPADE Jack would be a good match if you still have a stock transmission. Lastly, to get the power out of any upgraded turbo you will need a built transmission.
So let's say I dont even have a gooseneck hitch, ie I dont tow heavy every, and I want to have to make some power but dont want to run 2100 rpms non stop. Could I still run a turbo like a 472 and be able to daily drive a g56 truck?
You can but, there is still a lot of time you spend getting to 2100 RPMs. Spool-up could be improved a little with a tight exhaust housing.
Do you recommend bigger than a 3" downpipe with the 67?
I can't seem to find anything bigger but then all the brands are making 4 and 5" exhaust systems with the same 3" vband!
I thought exhaust flow limit is based on the most restrictive point...
3" is the biggest down-pipe that we know of.
We need a drop in non Vgt turbos, why does no one make them.
Silly question but is the 64 a stock resembling drop in? I have a high flow intake kit and am looking at a bigger turbo but dont want to buy a whole new intake kit. Like will the piping I have bolt right up to the 64? Thanks!
Yes! The Stealth 64 (or Stealth 67G2) will bolt right up.
How much is the proce of the 64 turbo
What year Duramax do you have?
So what’s the best one for a lb7
That depends on what you want to do with the truck and how much horsepower you want to make.
@@Duramaxtuner about 650-700 horsepower
@@jacobduran7938 The LB7 Stealth 64 is good for a peak of 640 RWHP. At that level, you likely wont have to worry too much about the bottom end (connecting rods). If you plan on building the bottom end at some point, the LB7 Stealth 67G2 is capable of up to 800 RWHP. It's your call if you want to go big, the safer option would be a 64.
O and a South Bend double disk clutch rated at 750 hp
Responded to your comment above!
This is the guy you want to buy a turbocharger from haha
@zacgifford9878 Nick know's Duramax turbos like the back of his hand.
Tell me more
blog.duramaxtuner.com/blog/64mm-vs.-67mm-turbo-3-things-to-consider-before-making-your-purchase
How much cash
Its NOT a MOTOR !!!! Its an ENGINE
Ok.
You're not using the term inertia correctly with regards to spoiling up.