Brace Drills | How to FEEL the brace
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
- Welcome back to another Overthrow Disc Golf tutorial! Today, we're diving deep into the brace in disc golf. Whether you're a beginner or a seasoned player, mastering the brace can significantly improve your throws. We'll explore two distinct ways to practice the brace, both horizontally and vertically. Remember, the brace is all about controlling your momentum and ensuring you don't lose power during your throw.
🔹 Key Takeaways:
-Understand the simple yet crucial concept of the brace.
-Learn how to stop your momentum effectively.
-Discover drills to help you feel and solidify your brace.
-Remember, it's about progress, not perfection!
For more disc golf tips, tricks, and techniques, make sure to subscribe to our channel and check out our website and merch store. Happy throwing!
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0:00 - Intro
0:25 - Take what you need
2:03 - First method | Sledgehammer
4:03 - Grab a disc
7:48 - Second method | Cut backs
10:38 - Recap | Closing remarks
11:55 - Outro - Sport
Nice to see a version of the hammer drill featured on your channel! I'd just like caution everone from going out and buying a proper sledgehammer and throwing it one handed like at the start of this video. Unless you're quite athletic to begin with, a single handed hammer weighing around 350 grams or 3/4ths of a pound is enough to feel the forces involved! It's very easy to start big and end up with pain in your shoulders. It's really only after you've established trust in your movements that you should move up to a heavier hammer.
I like this guy. Forget about disc golf
We need more of people like you in the world.
Where were you during the Front Leg Back Leg Wars of 2023
My couch
🍿
The back leg thing that sling slot preaches is literally the most idiotic thing I've ever heard..
💀
@@theOcean41seems to works for him and many others lol
Thanks for showing more than one method.
PENDULUM works well for recreational players, any age, any level of fitness. The more mass you have below, legs and butt, the more energy into a smooth throw.
Pendulum does leak energy, when the front hip slides forward. Pros dont use it off the tee, but do use it for standstills and for hyzer bombs.
The linear brace is the one for max distance.
Ideally, the streached front leg pivots on the heel and the knee straightens after the back hip turns toward the target. This stops the pelvis.
The energy then moves up the chain to the torso. The torso and head fly forward and transfer energy into the shoulder-arm whip.
The upper body cant disconnect from the lower body, so that is the final "stop" and final energy tranfer.
The linear version requires lower body power-speed, mobility while taking a big stride, balance throughout, and perfect timing.
Nothing but hard work, training, and years of practice will do if you want to master the linear brace like a pro.
Aspirational in my case.
PDGA 308.
Ok
I watch tons of disc golf videos, FOR YEARS!!! I am an avid disc golfer, went from +28 in league! To -3 !
Josh! You are THE best coach! It’s your attitude (Period) Thank you! Very much!
Wow. You put in some work. Congratulations!
I don’t mean this as a slight. But you’ve really leveled up your coaching language the last few months it’s really good stuff!
Dude I can’t thank you enough. The sliding across the floor analogy opened my eyes to how to better engage the hips and brace properly. I can’t wait to get out to the course and try this! You guys are awesome
Love seeing Mikey bounce back from the brace. I like the idea that progress in correct brace technique will "spring" the body backwards.
Brace yourselves! Quality quantent!!
Brace yourselves, discs incoming.
Another helpful and concise video. Thanks. Going to go out and work on the brace later.
Great Instruction. Thank you
Good. Love these videos. Makes me feel glad I've been on the right track, despite only playing 2 months
Dude, you are a great coach!
Thank you!
This is awesome!
Don't think about 2 things at once... got it. I picked 5 drills to work through, this is one that made the list. Working on the 'tug' before moving on to the others. You're all pretty fantastic. Smash.
This is great. My timing has been off recently. I think this might be what I needed. My upper and lower are just a touch off.
Huuuuuge light bulb! My distance shot used to look like Mikey's example of the bounce back... I was instructed for various reasons to get as far away from that as possible by people who I'm sure meant well.. this video makes it very obvious and very easy to understand that I was on the right path and I need to progress from that point differently than I have I am super excited to get to the field!
Great content as usual from OT! Josh when are we going to see the seabass interview?
This was a great video. I'm a footwork guy. And I've lost so much balance as I've aged. This kind of video gives me homework and hope to get some of that back
I see some concern about knee health (mostly from back leg guys) but it is worth mentioning. The number 1 rule of disc golf is if it hurts, stop. If you are hurting your knee you probably aren’t transitioning energy correctly so get some supervision. The leg should not be twisting while there is a lot of weight on it. It pivots after the initial plant to keep the knee from twisting.
Back leg guys concerned about your knee health from learning to brace the way the knee was designed to take force? Or are they concerned about their knee health after trying to twist their hips into their planted front foot and blowing out their IT band?
Was just going to comment on that because in your step 2 and 3 I don't see your right foot rotating around. If kept like that one would hurt their knee. I actually have that problem now. Question I have for you is when does the right foot start to move around to avoid injury but also maintain the most power? I am toying around with it and my timing is all wrong and off on it. Thanks.
@@robwaelchli1063 I’m not throwing very hard at all so there’s not much energy left to pivot in step 2 and 3. I’d have to have forced it.
When you start pushing up off the front leg the hip lifts and weight is towards the heel. This allows the foot to rotate naturally. Usually around the time the disc is moving out of the pocket into the hit or right around the hit.
Exactly why this old way is obsolete and never should have been promoted in the first place. It's like the words they use. Someone wanted to be original and not physiologically correct. There is nothing athletic about it. The sport has changed into a sport over a fat dad's hobby. I have played since '99. This old crap has blown out my knee and 3 other people I know. Let's see how far our body will turn on a 1 plane pivot joint... I played every sports my entire life and only got hurt playing disc golf because the front leg hard stop. Slingshots for everybody.
@@beenschmokin plenty of other sports that utilize this mechanic. It’s just a tough motion especially when done wrong. But soccer, golf, baseball, and tennis are a few sports that come to mind. This is not an obsolete motion.
Also, Slingshot throws from the front leg.
Cool. As someone with next to no brace until recently, the thing that really helped for me was consciously directing forward momentum towards my left butt (I'm a lefty) and upper back left thigh. Focusing there seems to automatically lead to the shift from toe to heel, and then pivoting on the heel. Definitely worked better than thinking about 'crushing the can'
Left butt to target during coil phase, right?
Yes, exactly - and then as a kind of focal point in the power pocket and hit. If 'engage the hips' means anything for me, it's moving torso mass into that specific point. And somehow, it helps me get onto the heel without thinking about it, and for the heel to become that anchored pivot.
I was also worried about my left knee with heel pivoting - that the front half of my left foot wouldn't clear the ground and would jam in the ground but that hasn't happened at all. @@OverthrowDiscGolf
I had an MCL grade 2 sprain a couple of years ago, my brain hasn't totally allowed fully committed bracing since (fully healed but a mental block). Which of these 2 styles is more agreeable following that type of injury?
Please be very careful with brace drills. I tore my knee to shreds doing this wrong. After one year I still haven't recovered . Even a basic upshot is painful....I am getting really good at forehand though...
Dude, you should ask SlingShot backleg guy and show him how to brace. Dude is a magician turning the hips he does it with his backleg while backleg is in the air and running 10mph
It's a secret method and magic. I wish everyone could brace with their backleg while backleg is in the air.
How would you describe the angle of your feet when practicing the first method with the sledgehammer and disc? If 9 o'clock is facing camera, lead foot pointing toward 8 and back foot at 7?
I would start pointed at 9-10.
The line formed by your feet points toward roughly 11:00 or about 20 degrees off target. Key word: “roughly”
Back in 1996 when I started throwing, my friend and I downloaded MP4 files of Scott Stokely throwing different throws, and tried to replicate it. I figured out that I would need a weight to learn the proper arm motions. (The terms like Brace and Power Pocket, etc. had not been invented yet.) So I bought a five pound weight plate at Walmart for about $5. What I came up with is very, very similar to what you are doing with the sledgehammer. The weight plate has the advantage of being almost the same size as a golf disc. I am curious if you picked one up what the comparison would be to your sledgehammer drill.
I’ve used weights as well!
Thing is what I'm, doing now is hips. up up down up. It's a challenge to get the hips down but that's my cue. hopefully my left hand is good. heel down head down weight shift and send it. The brace was an obsession of mine for past 2 years. Now it's kind of disappeared but I'm, happy we revisited this. There's still something there I need to come back to. Haven't learned how to brace. I think I' still screw it up
How does someone know which brace method (vertical vs horizontal) would work best? Is it trial and error, start with vertical then move to horizontal when muscles are developed enough, or something else? I know the answer might be try both and see which works better, but I also noticed from ace it’s recent video that some of the pros were more vertical when they were younger and now more horizontal, so I am wondering if horizontal is the highest level of bracing but vertical will work if can’t do the horizontal. Another alternative is that both are effective and anyone can do either. Also, is it that the horizontal is more efficient for transferring energy to disc compared to vertical.
Mikey here. I do both vertical and horizontal braces. I’ve found that the vertical brace is easier on the body and generates very similar stats to the horizontal brace. However I think the horizontal brace might get slightly better results for distance. Just depends on what you value. I’ll let Josh give his input if he sees this and wants to give his thoughts but personally I can see the value in both.
+1 to Mikey. Niether is necessarily objectively better, but one or both might be better for you. I like the horizontal brace for run ups since I tend to overshoot the vertical brace, but, like Mikey, I use the vertical brace for standstills since I'm not generating a ton of lateral motion to where the horizontal brace makes sense. For me, if I just step long, the horizontal brace just "happens," but for others, that could ruin the feel of the shot. Seabas22 seems to use the vertical brace for both, and that works well for him. It's about what *feels* right to you and gets you to a place of incorporating it into your throw without thinking.
step, swing, step, swing. thank you
Got it
I think it's worth pointing out that the goal is not to stop for the sake of stopping, but to stop as a *result* of near total momentum transfer from body to disc. I play with a guy who runs up to the front of the pad, comes to a complete stop, and then throws. As far as I can tell he gets absolutely zero energy from the run-up. Best to avoid that way of thinking.
Also if you take a look at slow motion footage of top pros (watch?v=psZKJcsgMY0) most of them do still carry a little momentum off the front of the pad.
james conrad carries pretty all of his momentum forward into some kind of acrobatic move lol. somehow he still throws 500
@@justjay3750 His throw slows him down quite a bit. Watched him play last year at Bailey mountain course and all the tee pads were short with little or no space behind, and and some of them just dropped off the front. It was a real problem for James.
@@daemn42 I do wish James would at least build a second walk-up style that is more compact like Mason Ford, or even something like a Corey Ellis / Sai Ananda style walk-up that's more exclusively just the cross-step.
Still working on planting square or slightly closed, but getting better. I noticed most all pros spin on their heel super fast right at launch. I read it's just supposed to happen naturally and I'm not supposed to think about it, but my foot doesn't really do that, my foot just kinda spins flat and not that fast. Maybe I'm just not clearing my hips properly or explosively.
Probably not enough resistance transferring energy to the hip.
@@OverthrowDiscGolf Yeah when I look at my throws again I'm not really getting any hip coil on my last step, just shoulder turn. I'll focus on that. Appreciate the reply!
Another way to think of it is like sliding on a hard court in tennis. While sliding on clay was something necessary, the sliding of hard courts that you see from high level tennis players is a product of moving so fast and stopping so suddenly that there isn’t enough friction to stop immediately. It is like having an old car pre antilock brakes. You go fast, slam brakes, and car skids.
If the foot isn’t pivoting, it means that there is too much friction between foot and pad. The way to reduce the friction is to either lighten the force between foot and pad (vertical brace is pressing off the ground so in effect when brace is at peak, you are going to be somewhat lighter on the front foot) or if horizontal, have to apply more force than the friction can withstand. When Paul lost to Calvin last year in a playoff (Jonesboro I think), there was the image of the turf pad bunching up in front of Paul’s foot. Being on the heel reduces pressure on the toes, so friction is also reduced. One could also use a shoe with less friction, but that likely would be less safe and would result in an ineffective brace. Owen at Trebuchet disc Golf advocates for doing the moves barefoot or in socks, I definitely find that the pivot happens better that way. I wish I could generalize to in shoes on concrete, but I do think the barefoot on carpet or the hardwood floor with socks is a helpful way to figure out what is happening on front foot. If foot isn’t pivoting on heel, it may be that your weight is leaned too far in front of heel, which could be because of not staggering enough or opening the front foot before planting (both problems I have had and still have to some degree).
@@McDroogy3 if you have that exquisite hard court slide feeling from tennis then absolutely
Ive been struggling a lot latly with reaching that 450-500 mark. I genuinely belive im just missing some queing or sequence somewhere. Ive been really working on timing and bracing. These videos have been incredible healpful and im really settling into consistent 400 shots incl being accurate with shot shaping and distance in and around 150-300.
I can promise you that if you are close to the 450-500' mark you are doing one of two things. Nose angle, or you are swinging too early. Those are the two biggest offenders for throwers who are close to breaking the 450' mark, myself included.
@@augustprice7550I am close to 450-500 ft mark and I have both nose angle issue and swinging my arm too early which I'm trying to fix. My reachback is from down to up. Maybe I should fix my reachback as well to be horizontal and not down to up/up to down.
@@smileyboy2700 I think ( and this is just my opinion) that its best to take a video of a grouping of shots. Number them like 1 through 10 and then make a little journal and see what mistakes you catch in each shot. Look at the results and the thing you are seeing the most is the one thing you should work on fixing. Focus on one specific issue and try to fix it and then move on to the next thing. I've always had my best results from just hyper focusing on one specific error that I want to fix.
@@augustprice7550 what is swinging too early? Is there anything I can watch as a reference. My nose angle is pretty good I believe. I really put in a lot of field time working on nose angle for the purpose of shot shapes. As a big issue I had starting was nose up. I like to throw nose flat, my reach back and line stays very parallel as that's just how I learned.
@@augustprice7550 if it's the same as a golf swing early or baseball swing early there are tons of videos. I appreciate the information
Is it better to kick up your back leg during the throw, or keep it on the ground?
With enough energy in the throw it will pick up naturally
czcams.com/video/QqPZzbDJPEM/video.htmlsi=HHgocf-6HBsGj9om here's a great video of eagle where you can really see the horizontal brace style. Everything completely stops when his right leg plants
I wasn't doing this at all and had no concept of it. Have tried for years to understand and believe concepts of bracing and timing. Thanks to you, sidewinder, Janni, Loopghost, Beto, I might one day throw well
Keep watching them and you'll never throw well. IMO many of these people still teaching the obsolete knee destroying method do not want people to get better. They are happy being a little better than beer gut dad bod and showing you how they do it will keep you in league with them. Many are mad the sport is leaving them behind. 17 year olds can throw 500+ feet and everybody is butt hurt. Disc golf has become a sport and athletes are taking notice. The days of over weight double knee brace cigarette smoking 38 year olds being the best are over. It's a sport now and not a fun past time. He who has the most fun does NOT win. Man with the lowest score wins and you get there by throwing athletic. Slingshot disc golf. IMO the only person showing the real and correct way to threw.
Study a baseball swing and it’s very comparable to a disc golf drive.
It is compatible with the second version. The pendulum version comes from ball golf.
@@michaelcushman Dr. Chris Yeager teaches the pendulum baseball swing first.
All sports use the same movements. Except disc golf for some reason... Slingshot disc golf is the best info out there right now for driving discs with distance. Athletic movement are universal.
Would be nice to revisit the Beto-Drill. There are a lot of people who swear this is the best Drill in Discgolf because you feel the sequences of the whip. Others say it reinforces arming.
We had a little bit on that in the podcast episode with Loopghost. It’s good for the arm movement but not great in the way that it gets people rotating their chest directly to the target at release
That is why you should do the Beto 2.0.
@@dgspindoctor crazy, how did I miss this? Thanks
Any chance you can give us a timeframe on when to expect the next Watt release?
We are at the mercy of MVPs timeframe. If I had to guess I’d say two weeks from now, but that is total speculation.
Actually we just got shipping confirmation. They should be in this week
Been watching your website every day. Hope to get my hands on a couple when they release. If you think about it and get a chance could throw a headsup here when then drop?@@OverthrowDiscGolf
Ok so how does the tucking the disc before release actually have any extra power to it? I don’t see Simon doing this.
What do you mean? Like why have a power pocket?
@@OverthrowDiscGolf like after the elbow is bent to curl the disc inward with the wrist.
@@crabbyjimmy1 oh, you’re talking about wrist curl, ya?
@@OverthrowDiscGolf so being in this since 96’ and reinventing my game I realized that keeping the elbow high was really an eye opener. I already throw very loose in my pull through. Noodle if you will. But how do I keep my core tight it’s obviously needed more distance. I’m practicing the throw the bucket but I’m having timing issues.
@@OverthrowDiscGolf so curling the wrist in under the elbow in the power pocket. Can you show actual results in distance to prove it has merit?
There is a video from a Golf long drive champion involving a lateral kettlebell swing that really feels like it can give some consistent feels like you are demonstrating above (and also some solid strength and general overall connection to the ground). It's at around the 7:20 mark in the video below if it will let me post it.
czcams.com/video/24Tie5PVwEk/video.htmlsi=7-LMH1FQOMONx3xz
Meniscus tear written all over this. 100 other exercises you can do with much lower impact on your joints.
.
I just wish it was as easy as hitting the save button. The fact we can't is what brings me back into the archives. Nose down for instance. You had it, right? Poured the coffee then assumed you still poured coffee. I think this is another pour the coffee scenario. You get it and you lose it without realizing it unless you recognize it as something you have to stay on it.
If that makes sense
Makes total sense
What are you throwing in your hammer slot?
The Ace Hardware Sledge
I couldn’t think of anything worse for knees than swinging a sludge hammer.
.
Guess I gotta buy a sledgehammer that I'll never use lol
I see the sledge hammer industry has gotten to you as well.
It’s the seabas22 industry
How far would James Conrad throw if he stopped in his brace?!?!
He does stop. Just very briefly
Some kid is gonna take out their knee doing this lol
As one of Josh’s former students OP is 100% correct.
@@CherryB0mb333 I also agree, the front leg drill was something I did when I started trying to throw better and it caused a lot o knee pain. If you want to take care of your body don't do this.
@@tonyriedel4421 One Leg Drill saved my knee. Ball golfers use it all the time.
@@tonyriedel4421 yeah, there’s a reason Josh makes Mikey do all his dirty work
This ruined my left knee. This is terrible "advice." For a real instruction on athletic movement in disc golf check out slingshot disc golf.
Don't think I've ever seen a sledge propped against a disc bag before lol
Maybe it's just better to always do drills into a net so that you can't see the results of the disc and only focus on the body movement. ;)
I wonder how many 40-50 year old men with their zuca carts and range finders are going to go out and buy a sledgehammer now...
Maybe just baby hammers for them
I'm a 40-50 year old man but I don't have a zuca cart or a range finder. I do have a sledgehammer though but I've been using it for forearm strength. 😅
… I considered it not gonna lie. But no Zuca or rangefinder yet. I’m living in denial!
@@redsleaves It's only a matter of time!
Okay with that big of a hammer practicing i think you need to be careful not to hit your leg.. :D
It took me 2 years to understand what you say in the first few sentences of this video.. You are supposed to stop your forward momentum in order to transfer that energy to the disc.
This might be the missing piece I need to hit 300'
Twirlybird has arisen from the ash once again
Your conclusion: Latch onto what? somebody I like? Or get somebody to latch onto me? Do I need the sledgehammer or a disc in this scenario. Driver? putter? . I don't get it
Oh, drill deep😉. Now I got it
Who is Chris Taylor and where is he sharing data that you value?
Probably best known for being David Wiggins’ coach. You can find his info most easily on instagram @coach_chris_taylor most of this info is from personal conversations with him though he will be putting out a really official study with 3D motion capture stuff soon
@@OverthrowDiscGolf looking forward to your analysis of the study. Thank you.
Nope. I disagree on your last point. I'll bend myself into the proper brace, then I'll feel it and after that I won't feel it because it'll be in muscle memory. Rare instance where I defy your advice.
Someone has been getting video ideas from Shawn Clement
Shawn Clement was huge influence on me!
When you say "brace and then swing" it sounds like two separate movements. Maybe it would be better to say "brace and then let the momentum swing you and rotate you".
P.S. I can't throw, I'm more of just a CZcams commenter.
Right. It should be two separate movements especially for the drill
Drill deep? Come on Josh let's keep it clean
Always
Don't do this inside!
After 6 tries I broke a tv, mirror, wall, couple windows and a bookshelf. Not good method for indoor usage!
dude what is the secret be SOOOOO closed?????
To being so closed at the hit?
@@OverthrowDiscGolf yes you are not opening the shoulder at all. your arm is fully stretched out at 11 oclock
@@DP-yu4rr right. I tend to keep my shoulders closed and swing my arm
I do not like the sledgehammer drill at all, seems too easy to nick your shin with the sledge and that would hurt like a mfer
It would definitely hurt lol
1 point of disagreement with Josh. you can move on, but you have to come back and solidify fundamentals that can get blurred, muddled, sloppy.
Why does slingshot throw further than you if his idea of the back leg and front leg brace isn’t correct?
🤫 if you want the truth this is not the channel for you
hes much more athletic than josh. He also doesn't really do back leg technique, his technique is actually not what he teaches
Why does Simon throw further than Slingshot if back leg technique is correct?
@@OverthrowDiscGolf because Simon is almost a foot taller…if you actually took the time to understand back leg you would know that Simon is a back legger. And don’t you max out at 350?
@@CherryB0mb333 you’re so wrong on every account. Again, hit me up if you want an actual conversation
So, where's the 500' throw from this set up? Where's the shot of you showing us this works by ending with an example? Let's see the results.
Sure. Watch some MPO tournament coverage