Santa Cruz Chameleon Mx vs 29er - Getting experiMENTAL with the 2022 Santa Cruz Chameleon
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- čas přidán 2. 02. 2022
- 2022 Santa Cruz Chameleon Mullet vs 29er? Today we get experiMENTAL and take the 2022 Santa Cruz Chameleon on the same trail in two different configurations: 29er and mullet. The cool thing about the new chameleon is how the geometry doesn't change between 29er and mullet when you use the appropriate dropouts. It's time to see what the differences really are. Which one would you pick for where you live?
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I picked up my R MX today and I’m really happy with the ride! Thanks Hardtail party for all the bike reviews that helped me decide what new bike to get! The chameleon just suits me and I love how you can set it how you want!
I loooove experimental episodes. I think your hyper sensitiveness really makes you a good reviewer. Learning a lot of insights as always.
Thanks! This was a fun one.
as someone whos getting back into bikes. your videos on this bike have sold me on it. thanks
I appreciate these videos! You have opened my mind to look at all the geo specs rather than focus on only a few. Looks like a killer bike and I’ve been tossing around between the nukeproof scout 290 and this bike and it looks like this may be a better choice for me. Thank you!! Great work!
Thanks so much for this review Steve. I have the mullet D build and haven't tried it in 29er yet. Been planning to and really hoping it will still feel rowdy and playful. The playfulness is something I noticed on it really quickly and stoked to hear it retains nearly all of that in 29er mode.
Really good comparison! Beautiful tral and scenery too. And perfect t-shirt/frame color match!
A shout out to you for helping in picking my perfect bike. It makes a big difference to have guidance in the process. There are so many things to consider when purchasing a bike. Your help made it a exciting process not an overwhelming one. Thanks
Thanks for becoming a patron and supporting my work, I really appreciate it.
This is such a rad bike! Thanks for getting experiMENTAL on it.
Ooh ooh ooh. Finally the episode I’ve been dying for. Can’t wait to watch. 🤘
There’s a party in the mountains ,A HardTail party..that’s so cool when you say “Alright Party Time” let’s see how this do’s on the down, right after you pounded that technical. it’s always a treat to watch your reviews. What a great experiment and because of this I just purchased the Santa Cruz Chamaeleon MX right after this review.Now I can experiment with the 29 verses 27.5.. I think it’s a great bike for me to to find my riding style. Thank you Steve I’ll hit you up on Patreon about modifications wheel upgrades so forth and so on it thank you again
Really interesting! I would be curious to see that kind of experiment with without changing geometry parts. Exemple, your Middlechild, 27, mullet and 29er. The informations on your channel is great!
Sweet vid! I have a Yellow 2022 Chameleon Frame in my basement waiting to be built. I live in New England with crazy rocky, rooty, techy trails. I keep flip flopping between 27.5+ or 29 in 2.6's front & back. I'm leaning towards 29r.
I was just thinking about when you'd get around to the 29er setup! This will be fun!
It was really fun watching this. Totally made me miss my Chameleon. I will also add, I liked my AL one better than the Carbon one.
Love that frame color!
YES! More experimental videos!
What a great friggin review - everything I wanted to know.
So glad to hear it. Thanks for watching.
Ok I'm super excited for this video.
I'm sure it's awesome like your normal ones
Been looking at bikes to do bikejoring with my dog. Been debating which chameleon build to go with.This video just helped me decided between the MX and the 29er. Just ordered the 29er R build.
Interesting, I picked up the exact build you have here the mullet R build and have been loving it. My other bikes are a Transition Sentinel and a Transition TR-500 downhill bike and coming from those this thing feels like a XC race bike. I've been loving it for winter riding here in Salt Lake. Would've never bought a Santa Cruz but decided to give it a go after watching your initial impressions on it. Super fun bike, already have taken it on some desert runs down to St George on Zen trail and Barrel and others think I like it more than my trail bike haha. Thanks for opening my eyes to the hardtail life its pretty damn fun.
I'm glad you're enjoying hardtail life. It doesn't make much sense why its so much fun, but it is
I'm waiting on my chameleon to arrive at the shop this spring! Gonna go for 29er rear for New England tech, thinking about upgrading the wheels before it gets built 🤔
I have a lOT of cool Mtb's but I absolutely love to grab my 2019 Chameleon set up MX style. Been running Mullet on the lizard for 3-4 years on it. Super rad all around HT.
I am going to go play around at a few shops and checkout a few bikes. I am lucky to live near a bunch of shops too. Then buy your bike consultation because so far nothing stands out and makes me at I need it.
I received the 2022 chameleon mullet a couple weeks ago and for me the 29 is such a better ride. The first thing I did was get a 29 rear wheel with better hub. The fact that I notice a difference as a casual rider says a lot. Of course everyone is different and I’m riding east coast stuff.
Me as well , picking one up couple weeks and went for 29version as im in new england as well
Living in Wisconsin I just ordered a 29er R spec at 19% off. Also ordered a hydra rear hub to swap out.
I do love this HT an also this colour too, however its the extra ££/$$ premium for the brand name that makes me pick a different bike. Thanks for the video man, extremely interesting watch and looked like pure fun out there.
Santa Cruz bikes are like Toyota Tacomas. Used ones are worth almost the same as new ones. So while you pay a lot up front, you get a lot back when you sell it. 2017 chalemeons are still selling for 90% of what they cost new. You can't do that with a yt, canyon, nukeproof, or ragley.
You have awesome awesome content
Thanks for the kind words Tim
I have a 2017 stache that I've considered to setup as a mullet; I thought the setup would improve technical climbing because of the extra punch I might get. You have me reconsidering my reasoning with this review, thanks!
This is going to be my first bike since my 2017 Stache. The Stache is great, but even with upgrades I feel like I am missing out on the modern geometry.
Careful on the mullet stache. Low bottom bracket will hold you back. I would’ve done it but too many forums kept me from it. Sold my stache 2 years ago and haven’t missed it at all. Great bike, not for me. Geo definitely holds it back
Great mention to keep to the centre of the trail line. Which do you prefer cotic bfe or the chameleon?
Edit: 2 comments
(1) I tried the mullet this morning, and I like it! I have last year's Al Chameleon in 27.5+ with about 600 miles. Upgraded with XX1 power meter (mainly a roadie and need my TSS score), X01 shifting group, carbon bars, and Reserve 28 XC 29" wheels I picked up several weeks ago. Today I swapped back on the 27.5+ in rear to try mullet and I love the extra traction it gives on short, steep dirt climbs near my house, and extra cushion for the hardtail. I will probably keep this setup for the foreseeable future. Seems like a good compromise for this bike.
(2) I saw this a few months ago and was curious on the tip not to ride around a mud hole. I have had that in mind since but some spots I am not so sure. It makes sense that you would not want to widen the trail excessively, but around here some of the mud holes are so deep it seems like I am just making it worse to ride through it. I have not ridden many trails though in recent years, mainly just some dirt trails in the park behind my house.
That house though... omg living the dream.
I'm betting the owner doesn't even live there. They probably just Airbnb it. Very few people actually live in Sedona now because they make so much Airbnbing their home.
Really stoked to see this review after working on my bike today. I have a 2018 Chameleon that is totally modified and has been run in almost every configuration I can think of aside from rigid; 27.5+, mullet, 29er. !20mm through 160mm forks. 29er drop outs, 27.5 dropouts, light tires, burly tires, SS, gears...My FAVORITE setup of all the possibilities was Mullet with light trail tires (Agarro 2.6), the monster 160 coil and the dropouts back (chain tension). I just put XT 11 spd on it today and threw a 29" wheel with a downcountry tire on it, slammed the wheel forward in the dropouts. Looking forward to seeing how it rides tonight. It hasn't been set up as a 29er for over 2 years. The beauty of Chameleons is the ability to take changes without screwing it up, while still enjoying the real differences in ride quality.
Nice to hear about the Aggaros! Might pick up a set of those for trail riding. Have you done a combo with the Aggaro Rear + ? Front (Mazza Martello, etc?)
Best job ever.
Agreed. I'm extremely fortunate that I get to do this for a living.
@@hardtailparty Dave Gtohl looked out at the audience and said I can't believe this is my job! I'm stoked for people who take some risk and create their own great jobs!
One thing worth noting when switching between 29er and 27.5 is that your effective gearing changes. A smaller rear wheel will not propel you as far (due to smaller circumference) compared to a larger wheel. and thus all your gears will feel slightly lighter with a 27.5 inch rear wheel and you'll be "stronger" in a climb. On the other hard, you'll probably feel slower on the flats due to the lower gearing.
this is true, but the momentum factor was very noticeable between the two.
you can change chainring or shorten the crank arms to reverse the effective gearing change..
I have always wanted a chameleon for so many years. Maybe for the last 10 years minimum maybe up to 15 years now. Probably the one bike I never forget about. I am at the point that it’s time for a new bike. I am looking at replacing my older full suspension or getting this. I just made an offer on an aluminum with the fox build used.
Good luck!
I really love my older full suspension. My thought is if I get the chameleon my wife and I both gain a new chameleon. She ca ride my trek slash I can ride her older specialized Safire. So win win.
Any thoughts on this bike set up 27.5 front and rear? I really want this bike but I like smaller wheels.
Hey can you do a review of the new GT Zaskar LT?
Thanx for all your insight. Can you review a BMC Twostroke and a Canyon Stoic? I wanna hear ur insight on those two
Those are on my wish list to review, but i haven't been able to convince them to send one in
Steve I have a 2022 chameleon Mx on layaway. However I am now thinking 29er. Should I still get the Mx? I am a beginner and now I’m not sure. Thanks. I am east coast riding mostly beginner. This is my first real mtb. Thanks for the info.
I would like to see is the same comparison, except have the rear 27.5 tire be a plus tire, the same height as the 29'er up front.
I always prefer more traction up front than in the rear. I don't want the front to wash out before the rear.
I would like to see how do you flip over from 27,5“ to 29“ wheels and what you have to consider while doing it. Do you have to readjust the shifting or the chainlength?
See the first look vid of this bike that I released.
I am wondering about a 29er chameleon vs a stanton switch9er build...
I have the stock 29er D-kit version of this bike. That "peanut butter" feel has a lot to do with the stock tires and is really my only complaint with the bike besides the D-kit being a rather heavy hardtail.. My local trails are much more up and down with not enough steepness to overcome those tires rolling resistance. I suspect it's mostly the DHF maxgrip in the front. I threw on a pair of Specialized Ground Controls in 2.6 that were cheap and it transformed it. Doesn't turn it into an xc bike but pedals with much more snap, less work and gains speed on downhills so much quicker. The scale shows almost a pound and a half weight savings too. It does give up grip especially on the side of the tires but on tighter more natural trails there isn't room to lean it way over like the DHF wants anyway. In the future I'll I'll look for something more in the middle between the 1 tires sets. Maybe a Butcher front, or a Maxis DHR2 front Rekon rear combo on Max Terra. I really think that Max Grip front was the wrong choice by SC for this bike. It really wants to only be pointed downhill imo.
Yes, I built a mmmbop with 2 dissectors. Minimal drag, great cornering. I noticed my chameleon r mullet was crazy slow. My wife liked the mmmbop so I would let her ride it occasionally, I would be on my Santa Cruz and I would have to work so hard to keep up! I was shocked, it made me want to sell this bike. It’s worth getting a better back wheel with a good hub and twodissectors. Also trying it 29er,
Thanks for your experience
Great comparison. 29er in blue or MX in yellow makes it a hard choice for me that yellow is beautiful haha
Agreed!
Think of it as a win/win no matter which color you get. I haven't seen the blue ones in person yet.
I tried to get the yellow MX in a large this morning I could only get the blue so I’m gonna like the blue one
Hey, I'm a bi lost with a proyect. I've been following your channel for abour a year (sorry, just suscribed, didn't realize untill now) and I could only think about you to ask.
I want to build a HT from the ground up on a very tight budget, so I wanna know what to pay attention to when choosing a frame. I like playfull and nimble bikes, I'm thinking 27.5, 120 to 130 mm fork and full deore groupset, but the geo is a pain in the but to figure out. Any advice is a blessing right now
Just realized you do it on patreon, sorry to ask before, I just threw it before the end of the video. I will try to access patreon... how much does it cost though? I've never used patreon before
Steve, would underforking a mullet on 29er dropouts be too much? Would the overall lower bottom feel terrible? Thanks for being experimental!
I'd recommend the 27.5 dropouts for that
Beautiful! I bought the gloss navy blue in a large, felt a bit cramped and sold it to buy an XL in Sunshine Yellow. I’m 6’1” how tall are you and what size is your Chameleon if you don’t mind me asking?
Size Large felt too small and now my XL feel a bit big 🤦🏻♂️
Correct sizing is so difficult to nail. I'm 5'6" on a medium here. It fits me well.
You can experiment with chainstay length and bar width.
Idk if I should sell my giant stance 2 2020 for this in 29
Steve: Still waiting for the update on how you ride hardtails. This video continues to tease, for example you mention that you lift the rear wheel. Exactly how do perform this task? As you may recall, I am riding a 2019 Chameleon you helped me build (Patreon bike build service is great - very happy customer here) with 27.5 wheels. It sure would be nice to lift up the rear wheel at times to avoid getting hung up on rocks.
I've got s few more vids to catch up on before i crank that one out. It's on my to do list though. Very busy time right now for me.
Do you know how to bunny hop? You basically just scoop up the back just like you would a bunny hop, but without all the extra steps before.
I thought you were going to say the Ragley Big Al as I'm sure you mentioned that it was a very playful bike in your review!
The big Al is not extremely playful. It's better than some, but these bikes are on another level entirely.
@@hardtailparty Oh fair enough, perhaps the Chameleon is 12/10 for playfulness compared to the Big Al's 10/10 score ;)
@@hambo76 after riding this and the Maniak, i would downgrade the big Al to a 9/10 in playfulness. Still s fun bike but these two are next level.
@@hardtailparty Booo! No seriously, this is good as it means there's more progress being made to make 29ers as playful as 27.5 bikes. I do love that Chameleon colour!
I guess the smaller rear wheel wasn’t harsher or you probably would’ve mentioned it.
Curious on thoughts between these setups and the previous gen Chameleon with a SlackR. Sounds like the new model is stiffer, but gets a longer reach and steeper seat tube. Is the upgrade worth it versus just going with a Slackr?
As an owner of a previous generation Aluminum Chameleon, I am staying with it based on his earlier review. This is based on where I ride (east coast), how I ride (BMX and DH background, but with a lot of road and XC thrown in) and the fact that I have other bikes if going fast on steep and technical trails is what I want to do. While I can ride tech trails on a hardtail, I'm not planning to do any crazy enduro rides on it regularly.
it depends on where you ride and what you want out of it.
@@hardtailparty I live by Hawes in Mesa and have a previous gen Chameleon setup as single speed and typically ride a Laufey for geared on all the trails in the area. Have considered getting the SlackR for the Chameleon and switching it back to geared, it definitely has a more compliant and playful ride. Where the Laufey feels more planted, and better when it gets steeper, but much stiffer. My hope is with the SlackR it would give a bit more confidence in the steeper sections, without increasing the reach not sure if it would help as much as I would like.
Which bike would you choose between Yeti Arc vs Santa Cruz Chameleon vs Ragley BigWig Race ? And why ?
That's the type of question i answer in my bike consultation service over on Patreon. I'd be happy to help you over there.
Chameleon D29, can i upgrade components to match S29 or surpassed? Also Can i change Drivetrain to shimano along with brakes or this is best set up for Sram only
Yes, you can do that
Any chance you will be reviewing a Salsa Rangefinder anytime soon?
Not anytime soon sadly.
Hello, is it a simple deal to change the rear from a 27.5 to a full 29? Surprisingly haven’t seen a video on CZcams showing someone actually change it out
All the info is on the Santa Cruz website. They have a video too on how to do it once you have the drop out kit
N9 🔥
I remembered you said the Ragley Big Al was a very playful 29er. Would that compare to the Chameleon?
The chameleon has raised the bar regarding what playful is, and I would go back and rate the big al as a 9/10 now that I've ridden this new chameleon.
@@hardtailparty But it sounds like the Big Al would ride a bit softer, so that's an interesting set of trade offs. Awesome video, thank you.
Indeed, so few bikes have it all.
Would you recommend the chameleon 29 D trim, orbea laufey, salsa timberjack. Thanks for the detailed videos!
It sounds like you'd be a good candidate for my consultation service. I have reviews on each of those bikes, they should tell you what you need to know.
got a great deal on the stock 2022 mx wheelset and they are on the way, if I've never known anything other than 27.5+ on my 19' chameleon, do you think ill see any real downsides?
I don't understand the question. You're going to be running your 2019 mullet with a 2022 wheelset? Post back what you noticed after a few rides.
@@hardtailparty currently riding the 2019 with the 27.5x2.8 setup. Just got a deal on a full partout of a 2022 mx, and I plan on keeping the wheelset from that too and swapping between both wheelsets. Excited to see the difference.
You raved about the 22 Timberjack - what’s your winner ?
I don't remember raving about the TJ, but it does have some decent qualities. Your question is the type of thing i discuss with my Patrons. Patreon.com/hardtailparty
Would you be up for doing a bike year in review? You did so many bikes last year and I can't buy all of them 😜. Just thought it would be nice to see how they stack up in your opinion
Yeah, this would be great.
Don’t think it makes sense for his channel, he offers a personalized service on patreon to compare bikes.
@@yasonkkk8344 well I think it would be perfect. I know he does the personal service, but that is based on 1:1 which is based solely on each person. I was asking for his overall assessment of how each bike compares to each other.
Thanks
I feel like each bike reciew has so much useful info that summarizing them into a single shootout wouldn't do any of them service. I fear it would make people lazy and they'd just watch my comparison reviews and miss out on the nuances of each individual review. It really is surprising how diferent each bike rides. I know it's a lot of work watching each review video, but they tell you how each bike rides so you can decide which is best for you.
I think it would be like telling the world which child is your favorite. Then the rest of the kids would get mad at you😂👊-👊
is this the s29er or the the r29er chameleon ?
He builds the R and it does look right on the SC website czcams.com/video/wInR5ceVFDo/video.html
Trying to decide between the Chameleon as a mullet or a nukeproof?
Should add, East coast, PA to NC
This is the type of thing i do over on Patreon. I'd be happy to help you over there. Patreon.com/hardtailparty
I really appreciate you mentioning that people need to stay on the trail! My daily ride near Gooseberry Mesa is getting so cut up from people going off the trail. Also enjoyed how courteous you were to the hikers. Kudos
Man I wish I could ride all year....
It's pretty hot in the summer, but i love being able to ride in the winter. I guess that's desert life for ya
Get a fatbike, stud the tires if you're dealing with ice, and layer up! Goggles too.
Hey do you recommend a mullet for a beginner? I'm thinking of buying the Chameleon for my first mountain bike and I don't know if I should get a mullet or a 29er.
I’m in the same situation
I went for the mullet because I don’t care too much about speed. I’m happy to get off the bike if I can’t climb with the MX set up. I want it to be fun and easier to corner plus it looks cool!
Yes! We like to say, "Keep singletrack single!"
Stay on the trail, don't ride around tough sections or mud puddles, and don't make your own lines.
Here where I live we will add features to a trail and those that can't ride the feature create a ride around making the trail super wide. If you can't ride a feature on the trail, stop, get off your bike and walk over the feature. That or don't ride trails that are above your skill level. So frustrating!
Preach! Sadly most of our trail widening in Sedona is from big groups of bikers wakking 4 across, but the MTBers widen trails too
This is a frame only purchase. Other than the fox fork the build is disappointing.
Your not wrong, in the uk the top spec chameleon is £3800
I built a ragley frame with far better spec recently for less than £2k
Totally agreed. One thing worth mentioning is the resale value of a chameleon. No other hardtail on the market commands such a high resale value. I've seen stock 4 year old chameleons selling for more than they cost new.
I always wait till the next year for factory sales, it made this bike a ton more worth it to me :D
I really hate the aesthetics of the mullet. I'm sure plenty of people totally disagree with me. 😂
In my opinion, people put way toouch emphasis on looks in this sport.