Are Sealed Subwoofers ENOUGH For Home Theater?
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- čas přidán 24. 01. 2023
- Are Sealed Subwoofers ENOUGH For Home Theater?
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These videos are very informative. I’d spend hours on the forums to get this quality and quality of info in this few minute video. Keep it up!
I have 4 SB 3000'S in my setup. They get the job done but if you have 2 up front in 2 in the rear, you definitely have to put them in phase for a proper experience. My next subs will be ported. However, I think that's a slippery slope because no matter what, you still will want more slam, more rumbles, and definitely more base.
I have a sealed KEF Kube and it sounds amazing.. i use both for music and movies
I switched from the ported 3070s to the sealed B&W ASW608 in my small room today. Now I hear the bass, I'm a believer.
I have 2 SVS SB3000s, and I have them paired with Def Tech bp9060 towers on LFE and they compliment each other really nice. Where the def techs lack punch, SVS really makes up for it. and where the SVS lacks that low rumble, the passive radiators from the def techs really help out nicely. I think for budget friendly, this is super premium quality. All in was just over $10k canadian dollars (Def tech 9060 towers with A90 height modules, 9060 center, 9080 surrounds, 2 svs sb3000 and marantz 9ch). And my room isnt huge, so the room gain really helps out as well. as long as its not too loud, if it is then I lose the room gain.
Having said that, Youthman, I watch a lot of your videos. Im a big fan and I love being inspired watching your videos and your talks with the guys. I cant wait to one day upgrade my house and have a true home theatre like you guys! Keep up the awesome work!
I prefer multiple sealed subs.
Gents, good show 👍🏼 of note, a single sealed Rhythmic F18 Servo Sub that was CEA 2010 tested hits 94.4 db at 12.5hz and 90.7db and 10hz. Oh and it's listed below $2k ! I don't think Servo Subs get enough airtime. Also, I do disagree with some of you as I do believe reset time/speed does exist and matter with subwoofers. Maybe not so much in home theater but there's something to be said and heard with music/2 channel performance.
I have 3 subs all with dual 15" drivers from PSA. 2 S3000i and 1 XS-30se. It took me that to get the tactile response I wanted and little more than just 1 V1500. 1 V1500 gave about 80% of the the tactile feel I have now. The problem with the V1500 in my room is I could not get it to sound as clean. My placement options and that port interaction just created too many peaks and nulls to get the response I wanted. Much easier but much more expensive going sealed.
It is in the ears of the owner I think. When I started seeing some of the incredible systems on this channel I went overboard and my first GOOD subs were two JL Audio e112s and that was good for a while until a friend bought a SVS pb16 then it was a downward spiral after that. Soon I ended up with 20 subs in a 12x14 theater with the JLs being the only sealed and the rest were ported and it worked. Anyway my daughters moved out so I opened their two rooms up for my current theater at 10x22 and dropped down to 4-18s and 2-12s and it sounds just as good. The JLs now are in my daily listening room and will still knock glasses over and vibrate anything that isn't nailed down. It depends on what satisfies the owner and what they can get away with from their significant other.
I have dual SB 3000 in a small room, room gain and sitting near field gives me plenty of low end, if I had more space then I would go with a ported sub, room size does matter in deciding how big the sub should be
Cool info.
I have PB4000’s. I got bass shakers on Amazon for a hundred dollars. Now I can turn my subs down and get better SPL while saving my ears. If I would have known about Bass shakers before I would have saved money on my expensive subs
I am just starting my theater journey. I have a 5.1.2 setup in my living room. All klipsch reference premier speakers. Center is rp-450c, left and right are rp-280fa (built-in up firing atmos speakers) surrounds are rp-160m and 1 SVS pb2000pro. Eventually it will be in my spare bedroom. My speakers are powered by Onkyo TX-RZ810 AVR until I can get an amp. I got everything except the sun used. Everything sounds good, but I cannot wait to get an amp and hear what my speakers can do.
Sub*
Every time i added a sub the sum quality was much better to me as long as properly located and tuned. Its absolutely not just a 3db boost adding subs. There are lots of other benificial things that happen. Im not asound engineer but my ears work damn good.
Exactly. I don't know why this guy is focusing on the issue of SPL. That's really not the point of adding extra subs.
I have 2 PC 12 Plus with the STA sledge 1200. I run them both extended. And they slam. I used to run them sealed. I may try 1 extended and 1 sealed. And see how that sounds. Would love to add two pc 4000s later and have two sealed and two extended.
I got 2x2 B&w Db1d. I love sealed subs. No port distortion, no air dryers, just pure bass that is amazing.
Are they as good as the specs suggest? How low do yours go?
@@thehal991 they realy are, the bass quality is top notch. I use dirac calibration, so i dip my subs of at 20hz, so they dont go as hard under that.
@@Glennarn87 I’ll be downgrading from a duel Rel set up (up front, three if you count the one in the rear, which I’m keeping as it’s pretty discreet) Its a living room home theatre and I’ve grown out of speakers hanging everywhere. Will be going stealth the next time I update everything so it’s a toss between one B&W or one KF92 🤔
I think the reason to go for a sealed is the space you have in your room, sealed are often half the size and you can put more in without cluttering the room too much
I have only experienced ported subwoofers in my own home. I have heard lower budget sealed subwoofers and they just didn't have the tactile response and midbass chest thump I really enjoy.
A sub you can buy is limited by alot of things for better economics. If you go heavier and / or bigger u get massivly increased transport costs and storage costs go up as well. Thats why Subwoofers u can buy are for the most part just WAY WAY to small. My 15" Sub that has the right Chassis for low base needs 120liters air volume and is ported. Otherwise the Output just aint there. You can go sealed and say "thats enough for me" but a perfectly designed Sub is in most cases ported. You just leave out Performance if you dont. The "faster" myth is also wrong since the efficiency of a sub increases with a port while being above the tuning frequency. If you need to pump 2-3 times the energy into a sealed for the same output your distortion etc is increased to a point where ur sealed is way less clean then the ported sub. All that being said there are some subs that work best in a sealed box. But if your Box is a 30liter box and your electronics+the subwoofer itself is included in that volume you just dont have enough volume for high quality chassis that can go low frequency. A nicely designed subwoofer has no damping material whatsoever in the box. Thats not an indicator since maybe the manufacturer only wants to cheapen out and the small box would benefit from some material. Thats why i always encourage people to search for a nice DIY sub and build them urself there are kits u can order with cnc routered wood and you just put it together like a simple lego box. If you go deeper u can build your own Subwoofers, for my home cinema i use a 2way subwoofer since one design cant handle kickbase and the deep base perfectly at the same time since they need diffrent paramters for both. So its impossible for a single sub to have very good 20-120hz range. Lower then 20hz is a marketing stunt imo. Mostly coming from people never expierienced 23-25hz and that ultra low tuned subs give atleast some output at those frequencies. Keep in mind that wavelenghts get so big that with normal measuring equipment like a umic 1 you cant meassure below 20hz since the correction information in the file ends at 20hz and by own testing with a umik 1 i can say 20hz is wonky af already. My umic 2 comes soon, its a bit bigger and therefore can fit more of the wavelength inside but i dont have high hopes to reach down to 20hz, maybe 30hz accurate. Would be enough for me, the hyperbaric effect is already on effect at 30hz so there is no real measurement anyway anymore. Gotta tune by what u feel and how u want it to sound with normal equipment.
@@12P14D22C Disagree with « well designed subwoofer don’t have damping material », since when? What is the problem with damping material?
Love all your videos, and now that they are broken up to separate sessions is awesome.Do you know when you will do the review on the Emotiva BasX MR1 11.2 Cinema Receiver.
I have dual sb3000 on opposing corners amazing bass 🤌
I would have to say u guys should do testing with sealed subs in larger enclosures not basically what audio brands recommend vs ported boxes are huge . From what I was explained it if u build a sealed box to the VAS specs for example a stereo integrity HT v3 18 has a VAS of around 7cubes and the subwoofer has an FS of 22hz , on good power that should achieve way below that and have a flatter frequency response than a ported box all day long. So instead of worrying about peak numbers for only a few frequencies, u won’t have to use so much EQ to flatten the curve
2 paradigm signature sub 2 up front and 2 paradigm signature sub 25s in the rear. No complaints here!
I have 3 sealed 18's and 4 sealed 15's and I know they get the job done!
I have a very small room. My previous sub system was dual LLT's (25cuft large low tuned) 18's @ 11hz tune. Now I have twelve 18's sealed (eight stereo integrity HT18's up front, four sound splinter Rlp18's in the rear) and a riser with dual 18's under my seat. With all that .... I still sometime miss the
I have a single htv3 18. I live in a small house. I was thinking of a 4.5cf seal.. ported, I was thinking around 19cf@20hz.. maybe on a dayton 500... I just need help on the mids setup. Any suggestions?
Or building a bunch of Tuba HT/Danley DTS10 lol
I want to be a lil richer also, 😔
Thanks for taking the time to answer the question. I’m definitely leaning towards dual PB-3000’s to get a balance of SPL and hopefully still get a decent response across all seating positions. Love your channel! Also, I found on the internet that doubling subs and amps both adds 6dB (3dB for sub + 3dB for power), not only 3dB. All theoretical of course, room gains might not get all 6dB
Of course they are.
The issue I believe is some low bass is actually "created" to manipulate ported boxes. Hip hop and rap music does this as well.
That being said I almost always can detect a ported box in a home theater and prefer sealed.
Would really like you te review HSU subs and CCB-8
Youthman, I think the Rythmik F18's servo controlled) might change your mind and they are a lot less expensive than the PB16's. They are sealed, go as low as 10hz and the spl's levels overall are amazing. Why aren't more reviewers talking about it?
Rythmik doesn't really advertise and I don't think they hand out free review units. Advertising is extremely expensive and Rythmik keeps prices lower for end-users by not forcing them to pay for advertising costs rolled into product cost. That said, they should probably think about lending review units to reputable reviewers. Shipping is expensive, but getting real data and reliable reviews that compare it to the competition in simple video formats would be very useful and more realistic than expecting people to spend dozens of hours in the Rythmik thread on AVS Forum.
You are correct. Most small companies do not have a marketing plan and many do not realize the potential reach of online video. They often rely on word of mouth to grow their brand and get their name in front of consumers (which is a really slow method).
@@Youthman I don't disagree. Similar to RSL, HSU , OutLaw Audio, PSL and Earthquake to name a few. However, reviewers still get a hold of them. Heck even JTR is a niche product. With that said, are big time reviewers solely relying on loaners? These products do have a return policy. Sooooooooo? Lol
id take the ported Rythmik F18s anytime over the sealed
for home theater videophiles i mean....
Hey there.. Have you tried any of the REL subwoofers..
Running dual Sb1000 definitely lack luster but in a house with 2 little one it’s more then enough with out making them hahaha
🤷 I'm running 2 Paradigm seismic 12"s and to this day still impressed still shakes the house.
I think the other thing to keep in mind is budget as well
My advice would be the twin 12" M&K subwoofers, they give a plus 6db gain over conventional designs and corner loading adds an additional 3db or so, so that's a 9db gain before it's left to the amplifiers 🤔 ... Also perlisten subwoofers have the same design and gain features... 😀
From personal experience I agree, I'm running 4 M&K MX subs with 12" drivers in my 14x17ft home theater and all the sealed and ported subs I've had before them paled in comparison. Very tight controlled and punchy.
You can´t go wrong with M&K, end of story.
I have 1 12" sealed sub and 1 12" ported sub. Both set to 75dB. The sealed sub moves farther than the ported does to hit the same volume.
Any ported sub with a port tuning of 16hz will act like a sealed sub 30>. I’d go with ported
I think, with all things be equal, the sealed would require more power to reach the same output as the ported.
Can't you always seal the ported subs for music?
i have sb16 at front, and sb4k at back, its more than enough
Would 2 x SVS SB1000 suffice?
I prefer sealed. Gets rid of the unrealistic boominess and provides tighter base for music themes and quick punchy types of effects.
I am thinking of getting rid of my sealed Rel HT 1205 Subwoofer and trying out SVS PB1000 Pro Subwoofer might be better for movies, with more slam in a smaller sized room
Do a second 1205. They are a really nice sub.
I would generally recommend two identical subs to cancel out room waves and the SVS is a sq downgrade to the REL imo. but if you want to hit lower subsonic and not just spl then go at least 12" ported
I suppose if you have enough subs, putting them in pairs could give you extra coupling, and space the pairs out for even response.
Hello everyone.... 👋
How about RP-1200SW for a 16' * 20' room?
I want to ask ur opinion, I have a small bedroom set up as a theater room with 3 ported klipsch 12 in subs but want to build a sealed 18 in ultimax. Would the sealed 18 be better than the 3 12s or maybe 2 sealed 18s
The UM-18-22 will play "lower" but likely not "louder" than three coupled and vented Klipsch subs at 12". But...2 x 18 UM sealed would solve all your problems in a small bedroom, especially if it's under 1500 cubic feet...or less than 13' x 13'x 9'. Room gain starts in the 40 - 45 Hz range in rooms of that size. Tons of boundary reinforcement. Moreover you can surely do better with a DIY as far as roll-off is concerned. The commercial subs from Klipsch would unload pretty rapidly below about 28 Hz. Probably high passed with a filter to protect their drivers. A UM-18, with a critical Q roll-off (.5 Qtc) will do much better below 28 Hz...and group delay will probably be better given that shallower roll-off.
I actually just finished building a UM-18 in 6.5 cu. ft. But my great room is on the large size so I just put in for a HST-18 from Stereo Integrity. It's over three times the cost ($ 1k) but will give close to 5 dB more at 20 Hz than the UM 18. My room gain doesn't start until 20 Hz so I need a monster to get good impact.
How do you guys feel about Infinite baffle subs compared to Sealed and Ported? I'm interested in building a IB Baffle for Quad (4) 18's
I think if done well, they can work just as well as anything else.
Search for DBA (double bass array) if you have a entire free wall
I have a ported sub that sounds nice but there is a futtering sound around the 10 to 20 hz is there any way to fix that
Port chuff. I can hear it on any ported sub that digs deep. Don't know why more people can't
I love sealed for music ported for movies
Quality subs should be good for both.
@@Youthman I agree but the results I have herd so far that seems to be the case. I am upgrade my Klipch Refrence sub to either a Paradigm Defiance X12 or X15 the X15 will just fit in the space that I have. I want it to go low and deep but there are concerts that it may be too big for the space. I am defently looking forpard to the upgrade as the Klipch felt subpar with my Kef R700 front and Paradim center chanel and mission surrounds
more upgrades coming as money comes. I am running this through a Denon x4400h.
The previous Klipsch subs have never been too great. We had the new RP-1600SW in a blind comparison at MWAVE against 7 or 8 subs. It came in third behind the JTR Captivator RS1 (18” sub) and GSG dual 21’s.
@@Youthman good to know out of all the subs I could hear at a local shop the Paradim had the best and cleanest bass.
if you get atleast 4 of these sealed maybe......or just get 2 good ported atleast 15"s but for sure 2 18s will sound way better than any sealed if your a real videophile...
My next purchase is going to be 2 PSA S2112M's. I hope those will be enough. I am 60% movies and 40% music with my room.
I have 2 PSA S2112s and they are fantastic! For music, they are fast and tight. For movies, they are able to dig really deep and shake the room/house.
@@brianharris5446 nice! I can't wait!
My 2 sealed HSU ULS 15s are better than many non sealed. They can hit 12.5hz at 90 dbs…. Flat down to 20hz and can easily hit 120dbs…. They are no JTR but they slam plenty knocking things off the mantle 1 floor up lol
why not just use both in the same system? in my experience the tighter bass from sealed subs are better for HEARD bass in movies and music and ported subs are better for FELT bass in movies..
Mixing sealed in portage can be done, but it’s much more difficult to integrate due to cancellations
Go talk to Tom at powersound audio
What are the best speakers you have heard for home theatre in your opinion?
JTR and Seaton are at the top of my list.
@@Youthman are JBL M2 or 4367 better that Seaton Sound 12C?
Not ime maybe a super big 18 yes but I’ve had a sb3000 and it’s wasn’t enough
I had a pair of SB16’s and still wanted more. I think I may have issues.
@@Youthman you think you might have issues 🤣😅
@@Youthman youthman your definitely a bass addict lmao
Adding another sub increases spl by 6db. You got double both power and drivers
Yes. I have dual Rythmik 18 inch subs and it sounds like my home is coming apart
The ported or sealed?
@@NuttyElf The F18. Sealed. They are unreal
@wking nice! My space is 18x27, been trying to figure out if the sealed will produce enough or if I need to go with ported. Thanks!
@@NuttyElf It absolutely will. These are so incredible, but just remember they aren't slammy like svs. They hit, but they are so smooth and detailed. When you get them let me know what you think. I can give you some tweaks that helped
@wking very cool, yeah I am more interested in accurate reproduction I feel like. Thank you and will do!
went from dual pb1k pros to a single sb16 ultra. def a down grade in the output department. dont get me wrong the sb shakes the whole house but its completely useless for home theater at the price point. it performs well in 2.1 for music but at high volumes in movies its just bleh
What is your take on these maniacs with 8 or more subwoofers? Which generally is never set up correctly.
I don’t have a take on it. Everyone has different goals they are trying to achieve in their set up.
Thats the thing they may have that many because they cant set up fewer ideally.
Nope, Ported all the way.... I hav 8 HT systems in my house. 2 scoop bass bins - 2 subs in the basement, 2 subs in my office, 3 subs in living room, 1 sub in wife office, 1 sub in son room 7 1 sub in master bedroom. Enough said....
Anybody thinking of Hsu Research subs?
I’ve heard good things about HSU
i have two of them, i get full output at 12.5 HZ. excellent! although shipping has gotten so expensive they aren't as good of a deal like they used to be
No they are old no new subs in forever bash amps suck imo they had there day
I prefer sticking voice coils on my walls
NO! 😊
Seal all the way...better 💥 for the money..
Most people won't go 18 lol
Bleh. I have dual SB3000s and i'm underwhelmed.
How are you underwhelmed? In the overall response across the seating positions, or just in the output and ability to give you that theater feel?
@@iSmiddy931 output. some scenes do well, others, not so much.
I also have a pretty bad null at about 52hz. My room is large and oddly shaped. The room opens into the rest of the house and has a balcony to the upstairs.
@@iamaboozer
Try running the front sub 180 out of phase and see if it matches better with filling the null. Report back
8 subwoofers is just ridiculous, unless the room is massive! They're obviously fighting each other and are not implemented properly if someone feels they need eight subs.
You're fighting room nodes. It would really help
I like how most people are watching this…and can’t even afford this stuff
What’s wrong with that? I’ll likely never own a Ferrari but I enjoy seeing other people owning them.
Keep working at it man you'll get there. I just started off with used stuff and upgraded as I could afford it. I think it's half the fun.
A used sb3000, is always gonna be more than I need, or can use fully. But at some point in the future will be in my price range. If I don't watch something like this, I am never gonna know what I am aiming for?
Personally took me 10 years to get my first SVS Sub. But now 2 years later I have a 5.2.4 Atmos setup. Everyone and anyone is capable of getting there
Tons of people spend 1300 on a new iPhone every 1 to 2 years. A sb3000 is in that range and will last years.
@@flyers10az now that is a good point
Box looks way too small for the subwoofer. I've always preferred a 1.0 cu. ft. Ported box for a 12 inch sub to get that deep rumble spins VS the crappy punchy sound of a sealed enclosure that's waaayyy too small for the subwoofer that it houses. " Yo kid called and wants his toy box back" 😂😂🤣🙃