Should Subwoofers Be the SAME LEVEL as Your Speakers?
Vložit
- čas přidán 4. 02. 2023
- Should Subwoofers Be the SAME LEVEL as Your Speakers? Get A More IMMERSIVE EXPERIENCE From Your Home Theater by Doing THIS - • Get A More IMMERSIVE E...
Join me for weekly and monthly Zooms on Patreon - / youthman
Best pricing on Home Theater products - youthmanreviews.com/sales/
FREE Home Theater Design Tool - bit.ly/Home-Theater-Design-Tool
Join us in July for MWAVE - midwestavexperience.com/
Submit your Home Theater - hometheatertours.com.
Ways You Can Support:
Patreon: / youthman
Youthman Courses - www.youthmancourses.com/
Youthman Merch - teespring.com/stores/youthman/
Follow Us:
CZcams: Subscribe to this Channel: goo.gl/YEJ23p
Youthman Crew Facebook Group - / youthmancrew
Instagram: / youthmanreviews
Twitter: / youthmanreviews
Website: youthmanreviews.com/
____
Disclaimer: Affiliate Links are used in the description of this video. I earn from qualifying purchases.
Valencia Bespoke Series Theater Seats:
Tuscany Ultimate Luxury - bit.ly/valencia-tuscany-ultim...
Oslo Ultimate Luxury - bit.ly/valencia-oslo-ultimate...
Naples - bit.ly/Valencia_Naples
Valencia Cinema Series Theater Seats:
Venice - bit.ly/valencia_venice
Budapest - bit.ly/valencia_budapest
Piacenza - bit.ly/valencia_piacenza
Piacenza Powered Headrest - bit.ly/valencia_piacenza_powe...
Verona - bit.ly/valencia_verona
Verona - Powered Headrest - bit.ly/valencia_verona
Valencia Premier Series Theater Seats:
Oslo - bit.ly/valenciaoslo
Oslo XL - bit.ly/valenciaosloxl
Zurich - bit.ly/valenciazurich
Tuscany - bit.ly/valencia_tuscany
Bern - bit.ly/valencia_bern
All Valencia Seating - bit.ly/valencia_all
____
Bulb Projectors:
Epson 4050UB - bit.ly/Epson_4050UB
Epson 5050UB - bit.ly/Epson_5050UB
Sony VPL-HW65ES - bit.ly/Sony_VPL-HW65ES
JVC LX-NZ3 - bit.ly/JVC_LX-NZ3
JVC DLA-NX7 - bit.ly/JVC_DLA-NX7
Laser Projectors:
Epson LS11000 - bit.ly/Epson_LS11000
Epson LS12000 - bit.ly/Epson_LS12000
JVC DLA-NZ7 - bit.ly/JVC-DLA-NZ7
JVC DLA-NZ8 - bit.ly/JVC_DLA-NZ8
JVC DLA-NZ9 - bit.ly/JVC-DLA-NZ9
Sony VPL-XW5000ES - bit.ly/Sony_VPL-XW5000ES
Sony VPL-XW6000ES - bit.ly/Sony_VPL-XW6000ES
Sony VPL-XW7000ES - bit.ly/Sony_VPL-XW7000ES
BasX Amplifiers
A2 (2ch amplifier) - bit.ly/emotiva-basx-a2
A3 (3ch amplifier) - bit.ly/emotiva-basx-a3
A4 (4ch amplifier) - bit.ly/emotiva-basx-a4
A5 (5ch amplifier) - bit.ly/emotiva-basx-a5
A6 (6ch amplifier) - bit.ly/emotiva-basx-a6
A7 (7ch amplifier) - bit.ly/emotiva-basx-a7
More Emotiva Amps:
XPA-DR1 - bit.ly/Emotiva-XPA-DR1
XPA-DR2 - bit.ly/Emotiva-XPA-DR2
XPA-DR3 - bit.ly/Emotiva_XPA-DR3
XPA-2 Gen3 - bit.ly/Emotiva_XPA2_Gen3
XPA-3 Gen3 - bit.ly/Emotiva-XPA-3-Gen3
XPA-5 Gen3 - bit.ly/Emotiva_XPA-5_Gen3
XPA-7 Gen3 - bit.ly/Emotiva-XPA-7-Gen3
XPA-9 Gen3 - bit.ly/Emotiva-XPA-9-Gen3
XPA-11 - bit.ly/Emotiva_Build_Your-Own_Amp
Emotiva BasX A-500 - bit.ly/Emotiva-BasX-A-500
_____
My 7.2.4 Dedicated Home Theater System:
Speakers:
(3) JTR Noesis 212HTR - bit.ly/JTR_Noesis_212HTR
(4) Klipsch RS-62ii - amzn.to/2ET4R2w
(4) Klipsch CDT-5800-C II Atmos Speakers - amzn.to/2P4PdEZ
(2) JTR Captivator RS2 Subwoofers - bit.ly/jtr-captivator-rs2
Video:
JVC DLA-NX7 Projector - bit.ly/JVC-DLA-NX7
150" Seymour Center Stage XD (2.35:1) AT Screen - seymourav.com/screensDIY.php
Pioneer UDP-LX500 - bit.ly/2GwGZly
PS5
Audio:
Marantz AV7706 11.2 Processor - bit.ly/Marantz_AV7706
Monolith 11X Amplifier - amzn.to/2VB4CAg
GIK Acoustics - bit.ly/GIK-Acoustics-1
Theater Seating:
Tuscany Ultimate Luxury - bit.ly/valencia-tuscany-ultim...
Valencia Tuscany - bit.ly/valencia_tuscany
Lighting:
Lutron Caseta with Hub - amzn.to/2V1vp9n
CB Concept SMD5050 LED Lighting - amzn.to/39LpmtG
Misc:
Harmony Elite Remote with Harmony Hub - amzn.to/326SnNT
XLR Cables - amzn.to/3577Mk6
Orbi Wifi Router - amzn.to/2V227rh
Sewell Banana Plugs - amzn.to/2wu1Y5J
14 gauge Speaker Wire - amzn.to/2HGf1mJ
_____
My Home Theater Photos & Videos:
Theater Room Video Tour- • Home Theater Tour with...
Custom Cabinet Build Thread - imgur.com/gallery/Ly3SMdU
7.2.4 Dolby Atmos Build Thread - goo.gl/YShhGf
High Res Photos - imgur.com/gallery/Z2YE8vK - Věda a technologie
I would not suggest "adjust them until they sound good to you." That may be OK for the sophisticated audiophile who knows what he wants but that's not everybody. I know people who run the subs so loud they distort and they think this sounds good because they've never heard properly calibrated subs. Distortion is not a good sound, in fact it is noise.
For music I like to boost the sub by 10 db, but for movies I prefer to leave it at 75 since the LFE channel (if present) is always 10db higher than the bass routed from the mains. This gives my system a nice, smooth response with plenty of dynamic range to shake the room when needed.
Do exatly the same.
Hey that me!! Since I asked this question, I upgraded to a barely used Marantz SR7012 and now can run XT32.
It sounds great now.
Nice and congrats on the upgrade!
I had my speaker at 65bd and subs at 92, it was a bit much so I turned them down to 87db. Love the bass!
Audessy on my new Cinema 50 required the level match at 75db. This required me to lower the volume from 10 (centre position) down to 6. So far, it all sounds good to my ear. Everything is nicely balanced. Without Atmos, the speaker virtualization found in the Marantz app does a lovely job of opening up the soundscape overall. As compared to my Marantz 5012, the Cinema 50 seems much more sophisticated in its sound engineering. So far, quite pleased with it in how it runs my 7.1 proficient speaker system.
Thanks for this, I'll try it.
I'm not sure if sub count matters (I would think not if we're just considering the LFE level as a whole) but on my single 12" setup in a larger room I set it around 10db hot (85) via the Audessy setup. The level knob on the sub is still pretty low. At reference level things seem extremely blah and in my opinion it wouldn't even be worth having the sub.
I’m assuming 8-10db is if aren’t using something like DEQ?
It would be good to keep it at a fixed level, be it 5-10db higher than 75db, rather than having to keep tinkering based on the audio mix. Perhaps 5db hot would be the general consensus? But definitely need to boost them post audyssey.
I believe that your subwoofers should be as loud what your speakers must be, ive set my speakers at 75db at 80hz to my listening position and my subwoofers at 75db from 20hz at my listening position, you got to get the lowest Frequency to 75db in your listening position so that all the Frequencys higher then that can match the same volume.
It's a must to run subs hot when you watch a Marvel (Disney) movie. They master for average dynamics.
it was suggested by my foster father David Lee who once owned Vancouver audio clinic that my subwoofers would sound better at ear level. He serviced and designed speakers for over 40 years. i run around +5 for home theatre o to +1 for music i have 1 seaton submersive and 2 mirage bps 400s plus 2 down firing 12s in my electro voice interface Ds
Interesting concept to have subs at ear level.
I would see so many things saying to do 75db for everything including the subwoofer. And noticed that most room corrections that I've used sets everything to about 75db. I was always underwhelmed by the bass, and thought I had just had crap underpowered gear. I hated Dolby TrueHD and favored DTS-HD because it was noticeably louder and punchier. Then I saw a Youthman video about doing subwoofers to 85db and the rest 75db. It was an absolute game changer. I initially did 85db and noticed a huge difference. It was easily the missing ingredient to my home theater. I think that should be an option or standard in room correction software.
Great to hear you are enjoying your system much better y running your sub hitter than your speakers
Most people like to run their subs "hot", 10db hot is probably high average
When you do arc genius properly you do not have to increase the subs after arc sets them
77db for speakers… 80db for subs on my system. I have two 15” monoliths and a 12” HSU. Controlled with MiniDSP. It rumbles the house, couldn’t do 10db hot
How about atmos speakers? How hot should we / do you recommend running them?
It's should be the same dB as all the other sound speakers, the receiver should adjust the phase properly so that it sounds correct.
I've tested running mines hot, and same dB. The same level is proper as far as immersive sound.
Unless I'm ill-informed.
I was wondering about this i was gonna measure my speakers today !
I have 3 subs should I set all of them together at 85 ? Or each sub to 85db ?
Hey Youthman, im running my subs around 20-25db hot. I tested today with an SPL meter on C weighting. I attained peaks of 114.4 db with 300 war scene and 109.9db with Ready Player One. I have 8 x Yamaha 100w-subs. 4 at front and 4 at back.
- Room dimensions : 4.5m wide x 4m long x 2.7m high
- Config : 5.1.2
Movies sound great and no distortion. ''Ready Player One'' race scene or ''300'' movie literally can give anyone (who is new) a heart attack in my room. 😅
Should i just keep it like that ? or that's too much?
If you were 20 to 25 dB hot, that is going to be extremely unbalanced, and potentially hazardous to your hearing. I run maybe 6-8dB hot in my setup. 10dB is perceived as twice the volume so keep that in mind.
Hi Youthman! Yesterday I watched the movie: "Stowaway" (from 2021) and was really excited by the sound, I know no other film with so much infrasound.
In my living room there is a large window pane and it really started to swing hard, do you know if panes can explode?
I hope you do not know the film yet.
Maybe you make a video about it, have a nice day! :)
Which Stowaway movie are you referring to?
@@ebroadnax1 I only know one movie called like that, do you know more than one?
I refer to the one from 2021.
@@suxxa One in 2022 as well. I'll look into the 2021. Thanks.
@@ebroadnax1 You're welcome, have fun! :)
I'm set to 12 dB hot in a 16x20x8 room with 9 12" powered subs
I run my subs between 75-80db. Volume between 5-6 and i leave the volume on my Tonewinner for bass at 0.5db. And even at that level the Bass is SICK!!!!😂😂😂
+6-+8db hot on sub, +1db on center(I have a weak center)
I run my subs hotter than the rest of my channels. I have four subs total, and love the punch and rumble they offer during movies. With music, I tend to run them flatter, but with movies I crank up the bass! Gotta go with what sounds good to your own ears. Great benchmark to start with though, running 8-12db up.
I’ve noticed with my system and Dirac, that if I go any higher than 3-5db on the subwoofers, it tends to muddy the detail of the higher frequencies
The answer is in the Fletcher Munson curve : )
''research in the 1960s demonstrated that determinations of equal-loudness made using pure tones (example Fletcher Munson) are not directly relevant to our perception of noise''
Bass should be 2x to 3x louder than the main speakers... +10-12db 🔥🔥🔥
There's a real good video that's been around for years on Dayton Audio for tuning by ear.
It suggests starting with the gain at the 12:00 position, then turning the gain UP until you can hear sound coming from the sub. Then back the gain off until you can't hear the sub. The sub is not a point source, it's omni-directional.
What level do you set it at after you can't hear it? What's the point of turning it up and then down again?
@@Safetytrousers You are not supposed to hear sound coming from your sub directly like you would a speaker.
To calibrate you turn the gain UP until you DO hear sound from it which is bad.
You then turn it DOWN to where you can't hear the sub as a point source (like a speaker). You do NOT want the human voice being played through your speaker. That's why you set your crossover (XO) at 80 Hz and the gain between the 12 to 3 setting to start.
If you have a lower power 100 watt sub with a small driver like 10" the gain settings will be higher. If you for instance have an 18" sub and 3000 watts the settings will be lower. That's why you can't just pick one setting and it applies to all subs.
If you had Audyssey it would start by calibrating the sub at 75 Hz and then the other speakers would be measured in your room and the settings suggested to match the sub.
The key here is that Audyssey makes all the speakers play nice together at REFERENCE LEVEL, usually dictated by THX. If you don't play at Reference Level (about 80 db which is loud) then you would have the best luck putting all the settings at the level you typically listen at.
Again, the problem is if you use a static number such as 75 db the sub might sound boomy at high SPL and maybe even thin at low SPL.
That 75 db number is a good place to start, then adjust the sub gain higher to your taste.
Be aware that for every 3db of gain your amp has to double the power. That puts a lot of strain on your amp and introduces distortion.
That's why setting your sub TOO loud is a bad idea. Make sure your sub and its power is capable of producing the sound you want at the levels you play it. Don't try to make a 10" sub shake the room the way an 18" sub would. You don't want distorted boomy bass.
@@voiceofreason9238 Why not just set the crossover of the sub according to your other speakers and just play a track you are familiar with and get the bass to sound right?
@@Safetytrousers Great question, there are a couple of ways to go.
The almost universal XO for a sub is 80 Hz. That is the THX standard and the point at which the human voice will not reach. You don't want (male) voices coming out of the sub-woofer. Not a good sound.
Once the sub is set to 80 Hz, your mains (for instance) no longer need to take care of the sub bass if they can cover 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz, the limits of human hearing. Most of the power draw for the speakers is for the woofers. If they don't have to dig that deep then the power can be used for HF and mids. This equals better dynamics for the mid driver and tweeter.
You make a good point about setting the speakers and sub so a known song will sound right in the bass region. I test my speakers with three things, which are really hard for speakers to reproduce since they are not electronic naturally. Male voice, female voice and piano. If your speakers sound great across those three they will most likely play everything you can throw at them.
I was in various symphonic bands for years and I know what a tuba sounds like and I know what an upright bass sounds like. That's my reference material. If you play your sub and the upright bass is punchy then it's setup wrong. That may be what you want from an electronic bass guitar but not from the upright bass.
Here's a good acoustic reference song that I use for male vocal and upright bass. Play it medium to loud to get the best effect of the bass.
czcams.com/video/sgJXbIP83A8/video.html
I have been measuring my speakers to 75db and my subs to 85db. Sounds amazing to me
Too much.
@@billybobby7607 Not in my room fella
@@wking8 yeah it is way too high
@@billybobby7607 Read up on leveling for reference. You put the receiver to 0.0db. Then use the pink noise with the mic at your listening position. Match them to 70 or 75db. It's not too much. Then usually listen at -20 for movies
@@wking8 I'm aware of calibration. But setting sub to 85db, 75db on speakers is absurdity hot
I like my subs to be 8-12db hot with my 7.2.4 system.
i dont think it has to be rule here , every movie and music track has mixed differently , some has a lot of bass and other need to boost bass a little bit so I always playing with the level to suit what I watch
This is funny, audyssey gave me -16. I set it at -5 but go up +3 sometimes which is between 8 and 11 db hot.
Which is exactly what you guys are suggesting…
Audyssey will always give a lower level for the subs (like your -16) because they assume you will use their Dynamic EQ feature, which will increase/decrease lower frequencies depending on your volume level.
For $130 you can buy a mini Dsp for room correction
Love the miniDSP for calibrating multiple subs. But there is a learning curve
@@Youthman I just realized if you have an old AVR, $140 is probably enough to buy a newer receiver with sub outs lol
I've been working as a calibrator with a background and acoustics for over 20 years. Setting a subwoofer hot really has to do with volume being played. The video is correct that we don't perceive bass at the same level at lower/mid volume but as volume goes higher, they are perceived at the same level.
If a subwoofer is 10 decibels hot and you start getting to more moderate and higher levels, the subwoofer will make mids and highs tougher to hear. This can often make dialogue tough to discern.
Be careful with boosting the sub too much, I've heard a lot of bad systems with not great dialogue and missing a lot of detail because the bass was drowning everything else out.
If your receiver/ processor has dynamic EQ that is something worth trying to accommodate different volume levels. Some also have different presets where you can have settings for a lower volume and one for higher volume. Of course you can! Always just use subwoofer trim if that option is easily available and adjust based on your preferences and volume level.
Good info
Because my average listening volume is low, I run the bass very very hot in comparison.