Zero Degrees of Empathy
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- čas přidán 5. 07. 2011
- Professor Simon Baron Cohen presents a new way of understanding what it is that leads individuals down negative paths, and challenges all of us to consider replacing the idea of evil with the idea of empathy-erosion.
Listen to the full audio: www.thersa.org/...
I feel that the word "empathy" isn't specific enough for the purposes of this talk; it seems to me that the "lack of empathy" shown by a psychopath is a radically different thing from the "lack of empathy" of some people on the autism spectrum. Perhaps we can distinguish between empathy as expressed by *understanding* of the emotions of another, and empathy as expressed by *care for* the emotions of another.
My toughs exactly.
It confuses understanding with caring for.
As example, a mother may understand that applying a vaccine to a child causes pain, but voluntarily ignoring that pain, because she cares for his child being protected from diseases.
So, she may understand or not the emotions of another, care or not about those emotions, and there is also the issue of the mother and the child, having or not having, the same scale of values, which changes the meaning of what "caring for" is.
Both autistic and psychopathic individuals experience *negative* anti-social symptoms, such as lack of empathy; however psychopaths also experience so-called *positive* anti-social symptoms; such as Narcissism and Sadism.
(Note: "Positive" in this case doesn't mean "good", but simply "the presence of", versus the "lack of"; such as a lack of empathy.)
I think in the simplest way to put it is thst psychopaths cannot feel pain when they see anorher person in pain. They cannot feel negative emotion when they discover or become aware thst another is experiencing negative emotion. They can only feel the opposite of what the person is feeling combined with a desire to do something to the person or they feel indifference combined either with the desire to do something to the person or the desire to not interact with the person at all.
ill explain what you are comprehending. empathy is a tool to understand the needs and uses of others' their emotions. empathy by itself does not provoke compassion or kindness, it does however show us the choice between acting righteous or malicious. How we train or use our empathy is entirely up to each person.
@@jbrewerman2 callous freaks. (Sorry, I've had so many in my life.)
There are also those that have 'empathy burn out'. Not that they don't have empathy, but have used their empathy to their breaking point and just can't really access it. Sometimes the only fix for that is to take me time and be a bit selfish to allow your own empathy to recover.
I can do cognitive empathy, when I’m in tuned in. Affective empathy is actually exhausting, and I can’t sustain, so I usually don’t start. It’s there, just not always accessible. Dr.Cohen is great, and I always enjoy his chats.
Untrue about BPD. I have attempted suicide and I meant it, twice, and this came on the heels of losing my mother, bf, and great grandmother in one year. Typically, cluster b disorders are PTSD behaviors and specifically BPD can be 100% healed. DBT therapy works and I am enjoying almost complete remission, thank you very much.
In my recent years, I've discovered that I lie more to the right of the empathy scale as a highly sensitive person. I think we can all benefit from this information by using our own empathy or relying on the empathy of others. Just because someone has low empathy does not mean they cannot operate appropriately in society.
What an unbelievably crude and unscientific way to assess a persons empathy. (4:40) First point: It's necessary to distinguish the cognitive ability to understand that one is being rude or inappropriate, from the willingness and propensity of an individual to back off of that behaviour as the result of empathy. You cant assume a lack of practical social action to be synonymous with a lack of empathy. The lack in a person with aspergers, is the knowledge of which social action is appropriate
Thats why I say an intelligent person is not necesairily a person that knows alot of stuff, it is a person that is caring and loving and non judgmental that truely is an intelligent person.
well now intelligence means nothing if we are applying it to any given behavior or traits that we like, I agree that it takes intelligence to be compassionate but it also takes intelligence to make the instruments that are used to measure brain activity. The two are very different so to say one is Truly intelligent implies that there is one form of intelligence that subsumes them all.
A disproportionate amount of psychopaths, paradoxically, end up working in the 'care professions' - i.e., in social work, mental health, etc. I've lost count of the number of reports I've heard of abuse of vulnerable people by social services, including my own experiences.
it is because they love to create a beautiful image to those around them and themselves, called 'a front'.... they use people, occupations, projects or anything else they can, to support this image. So next to being a downright victim for pure mental or physical abuse, one also risks being used as a front, by psychopaths. Those are two totally different kinds of abuse.
Everywhere you can leach you'll find leaches
@Alpha Centauri your avatar's name says enough... alpha...you sure are not an alpha and chose a name that shows power & prestige while you are empty & powerless, except the people you know you can abuse... WTF with your statement: "abusing a person doesn't automatically make one a psychopath"
@@g.s.5868 are you saying that psychopaths are the only ones capable of abuse? That's not very sound logic.
Alpha Centauri
If it gets reported at a higher rate, one likely reason would be because the care professions have a much higher societal expectation to “first do no harm”.
There is no such thing as a good person or an evil person. There are only people. All people are capable of good or evil. Love the sinner hate the sin. This is an ancient lesson that seems to have been forgotten. Many people do evil things every day.... when they believe they are doing good.
He's effectively demonstrated that he does not have a clear understanding of what empathy means. He's combining empathy and compassion, whenever these linguistic errors are made I get really turned off by what someone has to say.
Lack of empathy can be induced through brainwashing, certain negative life situations or intense negative emotions like anger or fear.
lol im autistic and i love to help people
if you really were, you would not be on the internet but banging your head to the walls
Me too. I do a lot for strangers and never see anyone else do the same thing. Since childhood, it's been my dream to take in foster children, no matter how difficult they may be to handle, so that they experience what it's like to have one parent that loves you no matter what and that they don't end up in the hands of abusive foster parents or the system. I'm filled with empathy, lol. Yet, anyone whom I tell my dream responds like I said something awful and horrendous.
@@g.s.5868 How stupid!!
I have asperges's but lots of empathy. (Can be tactless at times though, then feel guilty & shameful!)
Because you're highly moral, because of rules.
The concept of "appropriately" (3:12) is really problematic, scientifically speaking. A psychopath may find taking advantage of someone else's fear for instance very "appropriate".
The sound-guy should use an Audio-effect kalled "de-esser" on this video.
I agree. My wife is always telling me that I don't have any empathy and is often dumfounded at how I can operate in business with such a lack of it. Suffice to say that I am self-employed and run a very successful engineering business employing over 40 staff. The talk at the end of this video on entrepreneurism and correlations with low empathy made me shiver!
Love that this guy is related to Ali G
And borat
As a psychotherapist who works with people who have Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) I question Professor Baron Cohen's superficial and somewhat dismissive representation of the diverse group of people who have BPD.
He includes them in a very questionable Venn diagram with other personality disorders all of whom have zero empathy - according to him. Baron Cohen represents the varied group of people with BPD in a somewhat dismissive and unempathic way describing them as people who have "unstable relationships and extreme mood swings". He adds that 'they' - as if there's a monolithic they - tend to switch from expressing affection one minute to expressing anger the next, lashing out at people close to them.
My years of experience and my research suggest that yes, many or most people with BPD have difficulties in establishing and maintaining relationships. After therapy, the story is very different. Even within that population, there are huge variations in the way people form and maintain attachments. I have most definitely met people who have BPD who also have great empathy for others.
In a statement completely devoid of empathy, compassion and accuracy he tells his audience "They often also threaten suicide with no intention of carrying it out but also with no real consideration of the impact their threat has on the other person." Yes, people who have BPD express their high levels of distress by self-harming including attempting suicide. Baron Cohen would do well to look at the stats around the rate of premature death through suicide among that group before claiming that they have no intention of carrying out a threat of suicide. It's also the case that many people with BPD do not threaten or attempt suicide. None of them contemplates or talks of suicide or commits suicide it 'with no real consideration' for others.
It's interesting that in the later discussion, Professor Baron Cohen discusses how we can lose empathy via many routes - genetically, early experience and acculturation. He discusses in-groups and out-groups and the empathy differential we feel and show to those who are part of our kinship or cultural networks. He admits that losing our empathy can be about how we define ourselves in relation to other groups. It's been my experience that many health professionals lack empathy for their clients whom they can dismiss as people from 'the other group' - via a label and superficial, unkind generalisations.
> None of them contemplates or talks of suicide or commits suicide it 'with no real consideration' for others.
Isn't this you speaking in the exact same monoliths for which you are railing against? Definitely BPD people exist that do that. Especially if they only threaten suicide or self-harm with specific people over and over again, and yet consciously hide this behavior with other "favorite" people.
As a psychologist, I believe Professor Baron Cohen was accurate. He is doing a rounding, using general information which is statiscally significant.
Of course, statistical information is a general aproximation which cannot be implied to manifest in every individual within that group. Saying that in average a group has certain caracteristic does not mean that every member of the group has said characteristics. I have also worked with people with BDP and we all know they have a tendency to self-harm without intent of suicide, and threat to suicide without the intent of doing so. Also, it's true that there is a tendency towards mood change, that is why BDP is also know as "emotionally unstable personality disorder". That does not mean they cannot improove their relations, nor that they will never execute their suicide threat.
I believe Baron Cohen is referring to untreated people wih BDP, it's obvious that with proper treatment almost all conditions tend to improove.
Lastly, we need to label, that's how we can define a diagnose and treat accordingly. That does not mean we will treat everybody within a group as they had the same life experiences and intervene without context. But we cannot deny the usefulness of a diagnostic label, and that people with said label when conducting research tend to show in average certain traits, and even we can show with research which kind of treatment is most appropiate.
Probably the most un-emphathic thing any stranger has every done to me was when a psychatrist diagnosed me with borderline then immediately pulled out a form for me to sign that dismissed her from having to treat me! Lucky for her (and my freedom) I had already seen videos online that indicated that was a possibility or I may just have strangled her right there in the office.
As a multiple-victim of pscyhopathic, sociopathic and a.s.p behavior, i have to say that it is a little normal to generalize people who suffer these conditions yet it is a generalization for sake of conversation, by which i mean it would be hard having a discussion or debate on this topic when having to specify each and every person suffering this condition, and the specific way his or her condition will manifest itsself. So to make things a little easier, we tend to generalize. But it's important to atleast categorize the kinds of psychopathy, as they're not all the same. There is a much more bizar way of thinking which i've encountered when reading about emotional intelligence... written by Dr. Goleman where he looks at this topic in a stricktly instrumental way to such degree i have to wonder if this Dr. is a sociopath or psychopath himself. Emotional intelligence can serve as much, much more than just a good quallity on a workfloor, or in management.... or to be succesful. Goleman does nothing else than looking at it from that perspective...To get back at Cohen, he should understand the smashing nuance between a low scoring empath and a pscyopath, or bds-case or whatever. There are people who score very low on empathy scale but they don't even remotely suffer anti social tendencies. This is a large section of humans which could evolve to higher levels of empathy and the erosion of it should be encountered. Unfortunately we live in a world where we are indoctrinated by the idea that we should learn to function in function of functionallity and that's that.
This is an incoherent and unprofessional rant. Professor Cohen is scientifically describing phenomenon. It's not a therapeutic session for triggered people. To quote your quote, "They often also threaten suicide with no intention of carrying it out but also with no real consideration of the impact their threat has on the other person." This is simply a true statement. The discussion is about empathy, not suicide. BPDs also have higher rates of autoimmune and that also wasn't discussed. Your rant points to an illogical and disordered mind. You should NOT be treating people with BPD.
In our military and Three-letter Agencies where duty and rules bind some people to perform unspeakable actions even though they know full well they are wrong. I'm not saying that all military personal or government agents perform duties knowing that they are wrong; some believe out of ignorance that it's for the greater good, those people then are not truly evil.
@theakstonsrock No. Some of them lack empathy, others have too much. We just lack the ability to translate our thoughts and feelings into words, body language etc. But the empathy itself is very often there.
I agree with Dr Kavanagh. Simon Baron Cohen's assessment, lumping all people with BPD as having zero empathy is as unsubstantiated as it is inaccurate. It's also unkind and lacking in empathy.
People with BPD are major assholes, I agree with Simon Baron Cohen completely that those with BPD are extremely selfish and repulsive people. Women with BPD are definitely very self absorbed and fake too, so he's not wrong.
those sickos than fake emotions, that is what you should learn
This is profound.So glad I found this.
I have a question.
How can we know that who did the empathy quiz didn’t pretend to be something other than themselves?and lied about there truly feelings?
I love Borat.
no ali g
interesting about the shift from identifying people as real people as opposed to objects. I think the internet (and more honestly porn) must have have had a negative effect on everyone (including myself) in the way we view people.
Capitalism
Some ppl have described MDMA as an ''empathogen''. I suppose dosing the world's politicians with E might be ''controversial'' ?
That's the problem with today's politics, we've got too much empathy and no longer have "survival of the fittest" since females have been more widely accepted into politics. Females politicians and voters want more social programs and "free money"....everything real comes through effort to propel society, not "free" from government.
A lot of ppl who take this stuff end up cheating on their partners with random strangers while on it...so much for empathy
@Skeluz I'm a high-functioning autistic. So there goes your assumptions.
Yeah, we have a harder time reading subtle expressions and picking up on social cues. We also don't express our empathy as well because we don't show those cues as well. That doesn't mean we don't feel empathy. It doesn't mean we're sociopathic monsters.
Professors like this and Baron-Cohen make ableist blanket statements like this all the time and it's deeply hurtful.
I would like to add something to the discussion. These are my propositions, tell me if they are correct or not.
Premises:
Opposite of love is apathy not hate.
Opposite of morality is amorality not immorality.
Conclusions:
Why? Because in platonic thought it would follow that hate and immorality are the products of ignorance, while apathy (zero-empathy) and amorality are the true evils.
“All wrongdoing is done in ignorance.”
Example:
Where is apathy and amorality prevalent?
I feel sorry that this guys voice whistles on every fucking S it bothered the fuck out of me holy fuck.
I was thinking the exact same thing!
ArnoldTohtFan
me 3
semour hoffman I think it's soothing.
Point Blur what?? it sounds like rubbing polystyrene together
Empathy is a beguiler, greed and cruelty is very much the order of the day. We reward the undeserving, neglect the wretched and whatsmore you fucking love it.
How does the world get empathy? Make society's of people worthwhile, give them purpose, be fair and have principles, and if they don't, then at very least stop judging people that dont come up to the mark, if a human is treated like shit don't bitch that they have no worth. Just leave it and carry on with your life.
A fascinating informative, straightforward, evidence-based discussion of a heavily subjective notion of human behavior. I was especially struck by whether the answer to political in-groups is more meta-cognitive than emotional. If all people don't have the same genetic tendency, then both approaches may be necessary to sustaining an optimal empathy level.
I don't particularly agree with the generalization of Aspies and autistic people lacking empathy (which can also be said of neurotypicals), as I have Asperger's and I show a lot more empathy than most of the generalized Aspie's and even a lot of neurotypicals from my experience and from the experiences of many.. It's a different kind of empathy that we show that was described earlier in this video.
I believe Cohen is doing a round up. Averaging a population. For example, he says that men are less empathic than woman. I, as a man, know woman who are less empathic than me. That does not mean Cohen is wrong, nor that he is labing me. Rather that he is using a wide population-level average, while I am talking in a individual-level.
Perhaps you have a comorbid condition,@Curteous?
I'm sorry to hear that@Curteous . It sounds lonely.
Curteous that sounds challenging for you. Professional counseling may help you heal from the difficult effects of attachment. I’m both anxious and avoidant. My dad was narcissistic too. Counseling helped me tremendously.
I wanted to listen to this, but was startled by a warm liquid dripping out of my ears as my hearing began to fade. It was blood. RIP ears.
Andre Jussst exsssactly what sssssortssss of ssssssoundsssss ssssseem to caussssse thisssss ssssssituation of exsssssanguination from inssssside your ssssskull, would you sssssay?
@@keithklassen5320 !!!!!!!! lol
@TheMinuteVlog
He said "people that struggle with empathy but doesn't necessarily lead to acts of cruelty" before introducing the audience to people with autism. He also said "low" empathy, not that it is non-existant.
I don't believe any person is prejudiced - to say that autistic people are sociopathic monsters.
I have Aspergers and always see patterns no one else can no matter how hard I try to show them... I have low empathy
Do tell, any examples of patterns?
Do tell, any examples of patterns?
Adrian Avalos there is a pattern in your question because you repeated yourself... hahaha
other than that, I can see patterns in people on the street and cars on the highway as well I can see lopsided patterns in newspapers and while reading the print in books, I know it sounds goofy but they are there. I have a way that in my mind I can flip objects and place them into patterns I want to examine like homes and buildings placed together like the Tetris game. I hope you can figure that out... trees and leaves, as well as clouds, have patterns in them too.
When I observe any string of numbers, my mind always finds a way to arithmetically equate them to some power of 2. When I see the number 911, emergency # in the U.S.. My mind subtracts 1 from 9 giving 8, and then multiplying by the final number 1, giving 8, which is 2^3. Whenever I watch CZcams videos, my mind tries to divide the image of the video into 3 parts, one being the outline of the person, and the other two being the remaining area of absence. Kinda like cutting a picture of someone out of a photo with scissors and diving the remaining paper in half. I also have spontaneous tendencies to extrapolate useless patterns out of nothing, but the strange part, is I don't have any noticeable degree of autism. I have OCD and socially awkward tendencies. The reason I ask is because I've always been interested in people with a view of the world, that isn't in the standard deviation of "normal"
???
@TheAnMish THANK you. AnMish says it best. We have a hard time with translation, but it doesn't mean we don't understand the sentiment.
well, yes, if you simply look at the good teachings of the christian faith. The christian faith also teaches you to shun certain people, to stone the unwanted etc. The Roman society, before the rise of Christianity, was very harsh and they performed acts of violence, which the later Christian society adapted.
I'm a rather un-empathetic person..yet I LOVE animals n prefer to them than humans🤔 but when he said regarding low empathy n attachment at a young age..little emotional connection with other..makes sense
You could do a whole undergrad module on this topic (about 25 hours, + reading) and never be borred.
This was an absolutely fascinating video.
'Appropriate social response'? Science should stand apart from culture, but it never does.
In my experience this is a circular thing. Low empathy may lead you to certain behavior but it also cuts the other way, certain behavior will decrease your empathy. People will respond to you differently if you behave badly toward others. Empathic people will read what you are like.
One of the ways to test associated or disassociated memories is that associated memories tend to be more colourful and richer in the other senses such as sound, tastes and smells. While disassociated memories tend to be greyer and lack other sensory imputes. An example of this is often reflected in charity visual media. Charity posters tend to be in black and white or greyscale, where as product promotion tends to be in vibrant colours.
@EvanChaim He's his cousin.
I spent time in the hospital when I was a child and the abuse from medical staff was exactly the same as those nazis. They had no empathy, no compassion, no human decency. They were the epitome of evil.
I'm reading his book which I found interesting and really good. Yep Sascha makes us laugh and Simon makes us think, what a lovely combination
sarcasm hopefully
One of ways of testing empathy in texts is the use of the definite article "the" in descriptions of groups of people such as in 'The Jews' rather than 'Jewish people', 'the blacks' rather than 'Black people', 'the elderly', 'the disabled' and so on. Its use reveals the author's lack of empathy with the individuals concerned. This disassociation leads the people to consider these individuals as just simply numbers. This added with induced phobias can lead to hate crimes and holocausts.
I'm an atheist, but I think Christianity may be deserve some credit in the promotion of empathy, even if outdated now. In her speech at Harvard, JK Rowling talked about the importance of imagination, stating that the ability to take the perspective of others was fundamental to empathising. As the belief in god is a stimulating imaginative exercise, combined with the teachings of Jesus to love thy neighbour these two ingredients must surely have contributed to improved empathy abilities. No?
@mrzeroten My first comment was not fully thought out, but it doesn't really matter. I stated that I thought an argument over something arbitrary such as a personal definition is pointless. I'm not going to spend hours writing a comment to avoid a challenging response from someone.
So if you "lose" your empathy, you suddenly become worse at the "reading the mind in the eyes" test? That doesn't happen, does it? Doesn't make sense, this idea of "losing empathy" or "eroding empathy".
Thank you for bringing up Rowling. I just finished reading Baron-Cohen's book on empathy, and was a bit shocked to find absolutely no references to the treatment of evil or empathy in literature (and apart from Arendt hardly anything on philosophy). I did find the book worthwhile, however. Also the discussion on this video is far superior to most CZcams "debates." :)
Baron-Cohen is discussing ways that we exhibit empathy. One of the questions I would ask about is how can someone receive empathy from others when they seem less deserving. There is obviously a ratio at work here if we can move up and down the empathy scale. What factors might contribute to building empathy in those with less? Does it work like forgiveness?
I also don't buy the reincarnation and karma aspects, but I do think the 'awakening' aspect of buddhism to be worth further inspection. Ekhart Tolle claims to be awakened, but doesn't claim to be strictly buddhist, rather, he has naturally experienced a transcended realm without the teachings. Dalai Lama apparently isn't trusted by many buddhists and unfortunately I don't know enough about him to comment, but, if indeed he is corrupted somehow, that wouldn't jell with the idea of enlightenment.
@Willayam91
I'm not saying that they don't care. I was challenging your assertion that they give "more." I'm also challenging your assertion that people "living in lack" are somehow lesser for not being able to give as much. A person who gives 1 of their 2 apples to someone else is sacrificing more than someone who gives 100 of their 1,000 apples. The person who only has one apple should not be judged for feeding themselves and for doing what they need to to survive. You sound very privileged.
The autism thing might actually be linked to the HYPER sensitivity or hyper empathic from what I have been reading. Perhaps it is some need to isolate that else they become completely overwhelmed.
Facial emotions are cultural, as is the perceptions of justice and empathy. I know this is hard to believe in your ethnocentric, anglo world but it's true. Before western nations destroyed all indigenous or otherwise separate cultures by force there was huge differences in how people treated each other or did around each other. Before television and the complete replication of inserted media and their recommended lifestyles and acts, facial emotions were almost completely cultural to the point that they were unimportant or simply a value of identifying similarities. His picture and study results at 6:00 is pretty much either erroneous or forcibly ethnocentric because of this.
MrPikaPwnage But the stats are referred to our culture, i don't think they took datas from an unknown tribe of Belize. Maybe if you try with them, using their parameters, you'll obtain results similar to Coehn's.
Empathy is not cultural... ? and I think because he is analyzing modern humans the results are fine... you can only go so far with facial expressions being subjective. I really think that stuff is built into us from thousands of years of social cues. The expression of people is not merely cultural there are universally accepted framework for this.
You want to throw all of that out of the window because the west did what nature designed her to do? I think it’s a huuuuge stretch to say that the west ... suppressed this mixed bag of cultural facial cues...and that they could somehow undermine any kind of study on sociopathy... ...
It’s like saying that some tribes don’t characterize bananas as sweet. ...Who cares? Everybody knows it to be true. Everyone knows what disinterest, sadness, anger, fear, enmity, we all know these facial cues because we’ve been modeling them for tens of thousands of years.
Some weird tribe that smiles when they are mad is of little help to us. And who cares if the west crushed them. The west crushed everything. Blame nature not Anglo ethnocentric ...whatever... we have to proceed from this point on. We can’t backtrack because some tribes got crushed.
Why would they have empathy for someone in the out-group. That's not how empathy works.
The Empathy and Power Bell Curve differences between men and women is missing. Still very informative though.
@ghoststar I see what you're saying, its not what you have but how you use it. All the empathy in the world doesn't necessarily make you a morally righteous person. I agree with that, seeing as calling empathy the answer to understanding is an oversimplification of the problem. Empathy is probably an important part but theres much more.
@diogenes0157 barring the case empathy lacks because of genetic causes the main reason of empathy being ignored is that people believe this life is the only one they have, and what you don't enjoy in it, you'll never enjoy. To give something to others without sacrifice is easy. Empathy becomes challenging when in giving to others you have to renounce. And if this life is all you have it will be more difficult to renounce a source of pleasure. Not impossible but more difficult.
@omgpurple All the "rich people" I know are far more generous with their time, money and effort than people living in lack. Being poor is a recipe for desperation, where the person excuses their behavior with the argument that they "Had to in order to survive."
Of course there are people who have a complete disregard for how others are affected by their actions. But saying that "rich people" don't care is a huge generalization that's just not accurate.
thought provoking video....I do agree we are all subject to change in our ability to empathise depending on how we are feeling at any one moment. If we as a human race were truly empathic....there would be no wars or famines....because we can already understand how horrific it is to fight others, taking by force their land. their lives, their ability to survive. As the population of this world increases unabated, whilst resources become more scarce, empathy is the first thing to erode.
What?? Lol
Why would you even want to know how long a person can last in the cold? What use of that? I never understood the people who did those things. I think sadists are actually great empaths- why would they do that, if not to feel the misery? Why is empathy regarded as good, when in reality it could be quite terrifying on both sides. I think masochism is much more common though. You’d be surprised how enjoyable suffering is, it gives a sense of power where one feels is lacking. Just think of anorexics, purposefully weakening themselves- they are hungry for a sense of power in life, but without any real fulfilment. But, what do you think?
@Allegro2500 You are correct because there is a psychological component which empathy is created but the religious institution is more important in the form of social support. Not all religious institutions use "fire and brimstone" to influence behavior but it did help us delve into certain human behaviors that harm us or others. If you review the 7 sins, that is one of the earliest forms of personality analysis. Then you have the counter 7 virtues which help us in our social lives.
I have bpd and highly empathic, even got a high score on the "eye test". I have a lot of trouble expressing my self and i lack communication skills
13:00 I have a question on this... wouldn't that be doing the same thing as the people at the beginning? You're not killing anyone, but still, you're doing an invasive experiment.
@Willayam91
That's a fallacious approach. Charitable actions are not based solely on money. Despite the fact that there probably are many "regular" people who actually do give *more* money based on a percentage of their total wealth, many people also donate their time. From this perspective, while Bill Gates can be giving a lot, he's not necessarily sacrificing his own self interests any more than anyone else.
Unfortunately, one of the whole ethos's of lack of empathy are induced by the academic training where often disassociation (lack of empathy) is created and the removal of emotion in decision making is encouraged.
06:34 Perhaps I'm missing the point, but "stern", "sarcastic" and "suspicious" aren't emotions.
actually, all of these characteristics have specific emotions latched onto them. i would do the research for you but i believe you'd be better off doing it yourself.
13:33 The pattern was really inconclusive in my opinion.
Oh, yes the Cpt Kirk analogy bring the discussion to such hights, one wonder why Prof Baron-Cohen hasn't brought it up himself.
FROM RESSOURSES OF DA7EE7 ^^
Professional military people are moderated in their behavior by non military over lord's. If these non military staff members are competent enough.
Otherwise military people lack empathy.
Military includes animal handlers, having inter species warfare. Butchers, farmers, etc.
The Zimbardo prison experiment shows the universally flexibility of the healthy human personality.
I think you're right about not isolating credit to only Christianity. For what reason do you think it's innate tendency for societies to act upon empathy?
And just what did they get up to behind the veil at the time of the enlightenment? Not to many talking about that
Without empathy we would have gone extinct a long, long time ago.
The book is not purely scientific: it argues for the importance of empathy, and includes some suggestions about how to improve empathy, such as oxycontin nasal inhalation spray (!) and "forms of role play that involve taking the victim's perspective." The latter example could have led into discussing the role of literature and film in inspiring empathy, but didn't. But you are right: debating evil is a very delicate, dangerous thing to do.
Oxytocin* not oxycontin
@omgpurple I don't think people living in lack are lesser for not being able to give as much. Naturally someone who gives 1 of 2 apples is making a larger sacrifice than someone who gives 10% of 1000. But how many people do you know that give 1 of 2 apples? And besides, what feeds more mouths? 1 or 100 apples? It you want to have a competition in sacrificing more the person with less obviously wins. But in my mind it's not about making a sacrifice. It's about making a contribution.
more on empathy and Asperger syndrome:
google for the 2007 publication "Who cares? Revisiting empathy in Asperger syndrome" (pdf)
thank you
I challenge anyone who doesn't believe in evil to meet my brother, who is highly intelligent, knows exactly how the social world is constructed and who is the epitome of evil.
Mr. Baron Cohen: Do you agree that the immediate environment can be adjusted to create empathic behavior?
once you go psycho, you don't go back
Lack of empathy IS evil and is not an alternative definition for it. They are the same thing. Trying to replace the definition of evil with "lack of empathy" is an attempt to portray humanity as a "biological computer" rather than as a sentient, moral being with a soul or spirit. It is an attempt to break the bonds that make us moral. I bet if you ask any cop he will agree that the lack of empathy is the perfect definition for evil.
Excellent.
Fascinating!
This is fascinating but I wish the audio were better.
Intriguing - The concept of "HSP" persons is also related to a genetic predisposition which affects approximately 8-15% of the population - apparently in animals as well.
This is an extremely interesting video on empathy. Im glad I found it. Thanks for putting it up.
@Agnotio Based on the various definitions of empathy I've read through. Compassion is not a component of empathy it's a potential product. Sharing a feeling does not necessarily constitute compassion. Furthermore he clearly states "my definition of empathy" inferring that he has modified/deviated from original definitions, which results in OUR argument over something arbitrary. I simply expressed my displeasure with his presentation, not the man himself, so why do you care so much?
Maybe we have to accept the fact that, we humans come in different varietys, and we cannot do anything to change that except to learn how to deal with it. Just like fruits, ypu cant make a lemon juice out of apple.
Modern 'empathy' is Latin 'pietas'. The second one is called nowadays 'compassion', Latin 'misericordia'. However, compassion (Latin origin: same as sympathy in Greek) was originally just 'pietas', feeling sorry for someone, not trying to alleviate the pain. So the language doesn't really help.
I think that's probably the point of his book - it's purely scientific without stepping into the territory of 'shoulds'. I can also imagine that to debate on the topic of evil would be a very tricky and delicate subject, and any objective debater - in other words not a religious zealot - would risk implying some serious condemnation to those used as examples of evil!
@TehHumblePie its his cousin according to wiki. Interesting that they both are into techmology.
I agree. Articulation has been buried under lols and lmaos. This desire to say something using as little effort as possible is the basis for American culture.
@omgpurple Sure their degree of empathy might be higher as they make greater sacrifices than a wealthy person.
But don't forget the effort that's gone into amassing that wealth. In order to help others as much as possible we first need to help ourselves. That's why you're told to put your oxygen mask on BEFORE helping others in an airplane emergency. If you die by giving away 1 of your 2 apples you won't be able to collect more apples that allow you to help BOTH you and others...
@Willayam91
And people who contribute "less" or none should not be judged for it is my point. Someone like Bill Gates has more and it is thus easier for him to give more. The time and money donated by your average joe may be less from a numbers standpoint, but the effort and expression of empathy may actually be more.
@ELDK2008 Empathy is just a way to preserve our genes, it's an adaptive advantage but in certain situations it is not.
I'm going to have to disagree about the importance of the eye-mood judging test. The subtleties that divide the choose-able emotions seem to be based off of a very narrow perspective of the individual, and goes no further than that slight bit of body language. I think when someone consciously (or semi-consciously) ignores or abuses another person, it should be much more of an indicator of a lack of empathy than what could be a misinterpretation from the person having dust in their eyes. However, I submit that Simon Baron Cohen is much more experienced and knowledgeable in the field of understanding psychopathology than me, although I have experienced those kind of people well enough in my life.
Also, the depiction of Narcissus (by Caravaggio) doesn't seem to be like someone who is necessarily dysfunctional. However, one who does get lost in their own reflection probably is shallow. In fact, Narcissus (the mythological character) supposedly did not know that it was his own reflection. This reminds me of people with poor subjective awareness that likely are object relations deficient. On the other hand, one who becomes enamored by their social role (as in- their image to society) could become preoccupied with maintaining their self-esteem and reputation to the point that they become passive aggressive, negligent, manipulative, or outwardly abusive.
Lastly, I feel the term "autism" is somewhat of a broad umbrella term that is cast upon people with communication deficiencies... or as wikipedia describes, "Autism is a neurodevelopmental disorder characterized by impaired social interaction, verbal and non-verbal communication, and restricted and repetitive behavior." So it probably wouldn't be wise to repetitively label differing individuals as "autistic" when they could have many variations in their neuropsychological predispositions. However, I realize more specific diagnoses are made nowadays followed by appropriate and somewhat effective treatments.
P.S. I wonder how Simon's well-known cousin might be analyzed by him. He is very tangential in his full immersion of absurd characters and pushes the boundaries of social situations to the tipping point... very entertaining though.
@ghoststar - Well, if you read the original reply to my post you will realize that I am not calling children with asperger's syndrom evil either. My point is that he is deliberately clouding the issue in my opinion. A lack of empathy is the very definition of evil. If you choose not to allow for that in your world view then so be it BUT I think that most people would agree with me regardless of his "verbal slight of hand". I think this is a much better video watch?v=h9wG5c-7TJU
I wonder if he is related to sascha baron cohen aka borat, bruno, ali g
I would like to think that empathy is nature not nurture, while moral is a mixture.
How do aristocrats have empathy with lass able people in poverty?