VITAMIN B12 explained - are you taking too much? (Flaw in WFPB diet?)
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- čas přidán 15. 07. 2024
- There is no reliable naturally-occurring source of B12 on a plant-based diet and it is well-established that those not eating animal products must supplement this vitamin. But how much should you supplement? Why do supplements tend to have very high doses of the vitamin? Is this safe?
And if a whole foods, plant based diet is the healthiest and most natural, why do we need to supplement B12 in the first place?
Today we're going to be examining this key nutrient in detail, including:
Considerations for testing B12 status
It's use in the body and how other nutrients interact with it, and what these things mean if you're eating healthy
What form and dose you should take - including some new data suggesting that the usual dosing is perhaps not as safe as we once thought
Lastly, we'll briefly touch on WHY this nutrient is not obtainable on a whole foods, plant-based diet - and if the diet itself is really to blame.
OTHER NUTRIENTS I'VE COVERED SO FAR IN THIS SERIES:
OMEGA-3: • Omega-3 & EFAs explain...
CHOLINE: • CHOLINE: Should VEGANS...
VITAMIN K2: • VITAMIN K2 - why I tak...
IODINE: • IODINE: Should VEGANS ...
ZINC: • ZINC: Should VEGANS be...
#B12 #Vegan #WFPB
References: 10:19
The information provided on this CZcams channel is not intended to replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. The content presented is for informational purposes only. Always seek professional medical advice before starting any new health care regimen, treatment, exercise program or diet and never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you saw on this CZcams channel. Always seek the advice of your doctor with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. - Věda a technologie
How do you get your B12?
REFERENCES:
LadyofHats. Timeline evolution of life [Internet]. 2012 [cited 2019 May 20]. Available from: commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Timeline_evolution_of_life.svg
Ymwang42. Cobalamin [Internet]. 2010 [cited 2019 May 20]. Available from: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Cobalamin_general.png/1200px-Cobalamin_general.png
Fang H, Kang J, Zhang D. Microbial production of vitamin B12: a review and future perspectives. Microb Cell Fact. 2017;16(1):15.
EFSA NDA Panel (EFSA Panel on Dietetic Products, Nutrition and Allergies). Scientific opinion on dietary reference values for cobalamin (vitamin B12). EFSA Journal 2015;13: 4150.
Stephan.gromer. Folicacid-B12 [Internet]. 2006 [cited 2019 May 20]. Available from: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Folicacid-B12.png
Glushchenko AV, Jacobsen DW. Molecular targeting of proteins by L-homocysteine: mechanistic implications for vascular disease. Antioxid Redox Signal. 2007;9(11):1883-98.
Lee BC, Kaya A, Gladyshev VN. Methionine restriction and life-span control. Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2016;1363:116-24.
Chaturvedi S, Hoffman RM, Bertino JR. Exploiting methionine restriction for cancer treatment. Biochem Pharmacol. 2018;154:170-173.
Luiz Trugo, Paul M. Finglas, editors. Encyclopedia of Food Sciences and Nutrition. 2nd ed. Elsevier Science Ltd; 2003.
EFSA NDA Panel (EFSA Panel on Dietetic Products, Nutrition and Allergies). Scientific opinion on dietary reference values for protein. EFSA Journal. 2012;10(2):2557
Watanabe F, Yabuta Y, Tanioka Y, Bito T. Biologically active vitamin B12 compounds in foods for preventing deficiency among vegetarians and elderly subjects. J Agric Food Chem. 2013;61(28):6769-75.
5minutesformom. Vitamin-B12-Foods-to-Eat [Internet]. 2016 [cited 2019 May 20]. Available from: minutes.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Vitamin-B12-Foods-to-Eat.jpg
Tucker KL, Rich S, Rosenberg I, Jacques P, Dallal G, Wilson PW, Selhub J. Plasma vitamin B-12 concentrations relate to intake source in the Framingham Offspring study. Am J Clin Nutr. 2000;71(2):514-22.
Qiang Y, Li Q, Xin Y, Fang X, Tian Y, Ma J, Wang J, Wang Q, Zhang R, Wang J, Wang F. Intake of Dietary One-Carbon Metabolism-Related B Vitamins and the Risk of Esophageal Cancer: A Dose-Response Meta-Analysis. Nutrients. 2018;10(7).
Brasky TM, White E, Chen CL. Long-Term, Supplemental, One-Carbon Metabolism-Related Vitamin B Use in Relation to Lung Cancer Risk in the Vitamins and Lifestyle (VITAL) Cohort. J Clin Oncol. 2017;35(30):3440-3448.
Mozafar A. Enrichment of some B-vitamins in plants with application of organic fertilizers. Plant and Soil. 1994;167:305-311.
Ferriman A. BMJ readers choose the “sanitary revolution” as greatest medical advance since 1840. BMJ. 2007;334:111.
Damn, dr. Des, you're a rockstar! Again AMAZING overview!
Ironically - just yesterday I bought 100mcg cianocobalamin (240 tablets for 7€):
www.amazon.co.uk/Sanct-Bernhard-Supra-Vitamin-100-Tablets-x/dp/B00KGAZ2OI
I'll throw it in my morning and afternoon smoothie (6 hours inbetween), which should get me to 5-6 mcg B12 daily.
I take all my supplements (B12, D3, DHA, creatine) in this way (through smoothie).
Do you think they absorb properly this way?
And yes, in september I will check my general B12 status (HoloTC, MMA, homocystein, serum B12 - all of it!). ;)
Thanks so much! :D That should be fine with those four supplements, just bear in mind that you can't do that with all tablets. Wow, you're very lucky to have access to all B12 assays, make the most of them! :)
I supplement with B12 methcobalmian
500mcg spray of methylconalamin daily in the morning. The container of "my kind organic" has 140 spray servings. I have no idea about how shelf stable it is or if ot might be a risk for cancer tho.
I was diagnosed with celiac and had to take vit B12 supplements in large doses for years. If I went without it, my levels were low quickly. However, when I started using a nutritional yeast seasoning (Bragg's brand) my levels not only increased, but after a year and a half I went without it for a few months (unable to get it due to covid restrictions) yet my levels were still within the normal range. It does contain cyanocobalmin form of B12, but so did my supplements. I don't have evidence, but think it may be due to the fact I was able to absorb the seasoning better than a supplement because it was easier to digest....or maybe due to the other vitamins also included? Maybe both? Long story short, I no longer take a supplement since incorporating the yeast seasoning.
This channel is so amazingly informative and, most of all, needed!
Thank you for your valuable contribute to share health awareness!
Glad to find your content Dr. Harrington, very informative.
Brilliant video Dr Des.
Thanks so much, Sean! :D
Up until now I've been taking 5000mcg weekly.
I'll finish this bottle and then take a conservative daily dose.
Thank you! :)
Great, I think that will be a lot safer! Make sure you check your status occasionally, too. :)
Same here 6000mcg a week and my mental health is a looot better
wow I'm currently taking a bit of b12 every day i might rethink my supplementation as well^^ I'm gonna your video tomorrow! great work my friend!
Thanks, man! :D Yes, it seems the mega doses might not be as 100% safe as we once thought!
An amazing research video on vitamin B12 !
I thought the content was a bit deep, but in glad I stuck around til the end. I recently purchased a bottle of B12 (3000 mcg), but don't know if this is too much. My plan is to simply observe myself as I consume it over the next few weeks. Thank U for sharing.
Glad I hit the sweet spot for level of detail! :D Yes that sounds like a good plan, do not underestimate the strength of your own subjective experience! Is your goal repletion or maintenance? How did it go, did you get your levels checked?
You're videos have all been great thus far, I look forward to seeing you gain more viewership as time goes on. With your current series looking at nutrients I'd be interested in your take on creatine and taurine. Dr. Greger did a video on creatine and his take away was that the supplements themselves may be contaminated as a reason to not use it. Which to me seems like a poor reason to completely discard it. Obviously vegans are excelling without the use of either of these supplements, but who doesn't strive to be better? haha. keep up the good work
Thanks so much, glad you like the content! :D I intend to cover more fitness-related stuff in the future and I will definitely be covering creatine. Spoiler: I take it myself on and off and think Creapure is safe, I wouldn't take any other preparations though. All I know about taurine is that it's an essential nutrient in cats, I'll read up on that one as well though!
After a B12 infusion (it was the third within a few weeks) I stopped being able to sleep completely, got extremely anxious, agitated, paranoid, manic and confused.
Psychiatric symptoms peaked after not sleeping for 4 nights in a row, that's where I also had hallucinations, seizure-like cramps all over my body and other uncontrollable movements with my eyes.
I ended up in a psychiatric hospital for 3 weeks where I slowly got better thanks to medication, but I also think it was due to the B12 excess slowly getting out of my system. Meanwhile I'm off the anti-psychotic drugs and am almost back to normal, about 6 weeks after the infusion.
Other weird symptoms I had: Some nerve tingling in my arms, extreme stress, noise and light intolerance as well as not being able to handle any sunlight at all. Even 5 minutes on my body would make me feel overheated and inflamed for hours.
Glad to hear you're doing better! Hopefully you can maintain a good status with just oral supplementation like I recommend in this series from now on!
I have been taking cyanocobalamin sublingually 1,000 mcg twice a week since the end of 2018 after I saw a recommendation on line from a medical website, as I am vegan. However, since July 2019 I have been experiencing quite bad heart palpitations daily and I have now read that these and also muscle cramps which I get a lot of can be caused by taking too much! I also discovered that your liver can store it for between 3-5 years so I am now questioning why a person should need to take so much. Since the recommendation, that Dr has just recently updated the info and now recommends only taking somewhere around 400 mcg. Quite a difference! I am having an ECG done soon and will look further into whether the palps could have been caused by the B12. So I think, all in all, your findings are correct - take a conservative amount! I have stopped taking mine for the time being as B12 is also in a general vitamin supplement that I take daily.
I got heart palpitations too after my 1000 mcg methylcobalamin injection but that thing might be due to potassium loss in blood, b12 uses a lot of iron, folate, potassium, magnesium
@@explore_with_sagan9596 how u know ???
Hello, yes I think if you can overall the less B12 you can expose yourself to, while still ensuring adequacy, the better. How did your cardiac investigations go?
9:20 Not surprising the farm animals take supplements since they eat an unnatural diet and are often a part of business so it only makes sense to not lose cattle to possibility of deficiencies especially if you feed them low grade food. The cows we had as kids just ate the grass unless we gave them fruit. Thanks for the video there's some good insight
Thanks man, yes our food production processes are extremely broken. :/
Excellent report about B12 much appreciated!
Glad you found it helpful!
Thank you
B12 ruined my life.
I was taking 10000-15000 mcg a day because I thought I was low.
Then I started peeing all day, couldn't sleep at night, couldn't swallow, acid reflux was terrible, nerve pain tingling going down my left side of limbs.
I began getting paranoid and extremely anxious. A year before I suffered a mild concussion that I recovered from quickly. I started believing that I had ALS. Thinking I was dieing and leaving my family my anxiety and paranoia increased. Went to a neurologist but I thought I was done for.
I hit my head on the ground from guilt and gave myself a worse concussion. Now I suffer from terrible neck problems, headaches, eye floaters and mild cataracts. Post concussion syndrome, lingering depression fatigue ( I was so full of energy) I look and feel older than this whole ordeal. My wife is pregnant.
B12 over vitamin dosing ruined my life. I will never be the same.
I'm sorry to hear about the hard time you've been having, I wish you all the best in the future. I hope you're being well-looked after by your doctor, specialists and allied health professionals!
Hi. How are you? I'm sorry about your experience and I can relate to it as I also almost lost control over my actions due to this. I had a similar experience as you. After a B12 infusion I stopped being able to sleep completely, got extremely anxious, agitated, paranoid, manic and confused.
Psychiatric symptoms peaked after not sleeping for 4 nights in a row, that's where I also had hallucinations, seizure-like cramps all over my body and other uncontrollable movements with my eyes.
I ended up in a psychiatric hospital for 3 weeks where I slowly got better thanks to medication, but I also think it was due to the B12 excess slowly getting out of my system. Meanwhile I'm off the anti-psychotic drugs and am almost back to normal, about 6 weeks after the infusion.
Other weird symptoms I had: Some nerve tingling in my arms, extreme stress, noise and light intolerance as well as not being able to handle any sunlight at all. Even 5 minutes on my body would make me feel overheated and inflamed for hours.
Do you also recognize any of these?
@@cavallopazzo340 what was your dosage?
Thanks Dr. Des! Hugely informative as all of your other videos. I currently take 1200ug 2-3X a week, my serum levels were good the last time I measured them. I have recently read about the dangers of taking too much yes...Would you recommend 100ug daily rather than the amount I am currently taking? Thanks!
Glad you found it informative! :D Yes I think a daily supplement of 100 μg is better. If you're taking it less often, you have to take far more overall since you are relying more on that passive diffusion mechanism for absorption the less often you take it.
Your current regimen will provide sufficient B12, but you'll be exposed to 2400-3600 μg per week, whereas if you went with the other option it would only be 700 μg while still likely providing enough B12. I'm definitely leaning more towards daily supplementation now.
@@DrDesHarrington Not so easy to find supplements with 100 ugs around here these days...But will look for them. I also have nutritional yeast supplemented with B12 daily and B12-fortified with almond milk daily. I will probably reduce to once a week 1200 ug until I buy pills with 100 ug. I have been following Dr. Greger´s suggestion for the last +2 years but I guess at the time the data showing that too much might be bad was not available yet...
I know, I'm in the same boat, mega doses everywhere! I'd say you could safely reduce it to once a week if you're taking in that much fortified food. Yeah this stuff wasn't out when Dr. Greger last updated his recommendations. Tbh, I don't think it's a strong enough case for him to change anything if he was to update them today. But I think for the informed consumer looking to fully optimise their regimen, this is something you can safely act on right now while we're waiting for more research to emerge!
@@DrDesHarrington I agree! prefer to err on the side of caution until more is known
Thank you sir
Happy to provide some value! :D
I'm sorry, it wasn't super clear to me in your video what exactly a "conservative" dose of B12 is. I'm currently taking 1000mcg per day based on the standard recommendations,. The dosing in the bottle you have in your video looks like it was 100mcg? Is this the daily dose you recommend? If so, or if not, what is the range of doses per day, 100-500? 100-200? What about taking weekly vs. daily? If I took the 1000mcg capsule I have weekly vs. daily would this bring it down to a level that was within range? Thanks!
Hi! I've decided I'm going to do a follow-up video on dosing and form because I realise I left a lot of questions unanswered with this one, so stay tuned! :D
Would you consider doing a video on brands of b12 that are good
Yes and the efficacy of vegan b12 supplements, and liquid vs pill form?
Hi, yes I will be returning to all the nutrients in this series with recommendations on specific supplements and posology! But before that, we're going in-depth on vitamin D. Stay tuned! :)
The dr sent me to do blood work about vit b12 and is over the range and I asked him to do it because I was having skin allergy, stomach problems, anxiety more than I usually have and I know that because it’s happened to me before and I have the same symptoms before and had to suspend the intake for few months, that time it was so high that my dr got scared so now I am more aware about new symptoms I have that I didn’t have before thank you for the information now I understand better how everything works
Glad the video was a help! :D Yes, you would be fine to pause your supplementation of B12 for a while if you were above the reference range. Did you get it re-checked since? How have they symptoms been?
Your are not going to believe it it’s happening again besides having the b12 high now also is b6 that one I am not sure how I got this one I was talking a b complex and b12 alone I don’t understand how that happened I understand the b12 but b6 not and was having some of the symptoms for having to much but I have those symptoms even when I am not the vitamin
@@sirenagarrido3836 Yes, certainly the B6 would be a strange one and it's not a commonly-done blood test at all by any means so your doctor must have something specific in mind if he/she is checking it. B6 tends to be added to lots of stuff these days like multivitamin supplements, energy drinks, sports supplements and so on so it is very easy to get many times the RDA in and potentially go way above the reference range if getting your level checked and it might be something as simple as that, but it sounds like in your case there might be something more going on here and given that I know nothing else about your background or other potential issues here, I would just say stick closely with whatever plan your own health care professionals have in place, especially given that you have these symptoms. Sorry I can't be more specific!
Hi doctor, I was feeling extreme fatigue and got prescribed 6x2ml B12 injections over the course of 20 days for potential anemia reasons. Now I'm feeling great, but I'm experiencing 24/7 dull headache at the back. My folate, magnesium and potassium are all perfect, but B12 is >2000. Is there anything I should also check (maybe B1 or B6?) or is waiting for B12 to get normalized the only way for me to recover?
Hello! That's great that you've got such big improvements from the injections, but that constant dull headache you describe is a very non-specific finding and tbh high B12 would be way down the list of differentials a doctor would look at when trying to figure out the cause. You will need to go back to your doctor for follow-up investigations in light of your own background and medical history. The high-dose B12 could for sure be the cause, but there is lots of other stuff that must also be ruled out when one has a persistent headache!
Thank you for sharing this, I recently discovered I had an extremely low level of B12 ( 145), although I have tested negative for all possible etiologies( anemia, GI issues, etc) I clearly have an absorption issue. my symptoms were severe, electrical shock sensations, internal vibrations, vision issues, tinnitus, pins and needs, peripheral neuropathy and insomnia. The good news is I asked for a B12 test and was able to start injections and immediately was felling better, however I am struggling with how much sublingual B12 + injections are what I need. any suggestions? I started to decrease my does and then I had a relapse. I have not heard that one could overload on B12 but am curious if I could be taking too much?
Why bother sublingually if you’re injecting?
Yes the most important thing with B12 deficiency causing symptoms is rapid repletion with injections, which it sounds like has worked very well for you. Once that is accomplished, and given your potential issues with sub-optimal absorption, the best thing to do to decide on a form for maintenance is to try one out for a while and get your levels tested serially to make sure it is working. How have your symptoms been since?
Hey, how are you feeling now?
As someone with Neuropathy what should be the daily dose of B12
@Dr. De Harrington, hi I been taking 1000MCG is it safe to take that every day??
You will in all likelihood have a very good functional B12 status with that dose, but if you were interested there is also scope to reduce your overall exposure while still maintaining adequacy. Check out my video on dosing strategies to learn more:
czcams.com/video/WjSdALh1YVE/video.html
I stopped using fortified nutritional yeast. I have been taking 500 mcg of methylcobalamin in spray form once per day. Would that be considered excessive? Do you recommend I take 1 dose per week or get a different low dose b12 to take once per day?
First of all, I recommend a cyanocobalamin supplement over methylcobalamin. I think if you can find one a lower-dosed supplement taken daily would be better, yes. See the other two videos in this series for an explanation of my rationale for these two points!
@@DrDesHarrington thank you! I will do that.
New subscriber
Instead of taking b12 separately as cn or methyl...how if we take becosule capsule 500 mg daily for vit b12...I've hyperbilirubinemia lev 1.8, sometimes I've mouth ulcer or sore tounge bt 1 becosule capsule vanishes them
Greetings, glad to have you along! :D Would I be right in saying Becosules have 15 mcg of cyanocobalamin? In that case, you might also need to include at least one meal daily with a B12-fortified food to ensure you're getting enough. But given that you have a potential undetected B12 deficiency bad enough to cause mouth ulcers, I would first look at getting your levels tested and seeing your doctor - you might potentially need a repletion strategy for your B12 rather than a maintenance strategy. Hope this helps!
Dr. Harrington I am taking 500 mcg of B12 a day and just learn that is way to high so why is my MCHC low and MPV and RDW-SD high in other words my red blood cell are large like a person with cancer. Is the high dose of B12 giving me cancer. They say your MCHC is low because you are not getting enough B12 but 500 mcg is a lot. Is it because I am lacking another homocysteine to convert B12 into Methionine
Yes, you could be looking at a functional B12 deficiency there, but there are also countless other things that could be causing and contributing to those FBC metrics that could only be teased out with a full history, exam and other blood work/investigations. Depending on the cause, 500 mcg daily orally actually might not be enough if you are deficient and depending on the cause. Remember, the consequences of leaving deficiency under-treated far outweigh the risks of taking a high dose of B12. Has your doctor referred you to a haematologist? I hope you get everything sorted!
Thankyou.
I use the B12 under the tongue spray. Twice as much as recommended for good measure! Certainly works.... last time I was up above 1400 where the normal upper limit is about 800.....
@@binebum1 Whoops, looks like I replied to you with text meant for another comment! That's great, sounds like you've found a regimen that works!
I just started lipotropic injections of a B complex including B12. I am using this method as support to a healthier me, along with diet changes and balancing intake with output. Your thoughts?
Is this for weight loss? I hadn't heard of this treatment until now. How did you get on with it?
@@DrDesHarrington I was scammed by my doctor unfortunately.
@@kimberlytillson2457 Ah, that's a shame. :( Yes, there are certainly more than a few scams when it comes to weight loss!
I was getting b12 injections, but i stopped when I tested very high in bloodwork, over 2500. It is now several months later and my new test results still came in over 1400. How can I deplete these high levels in my blood?
How are you doing now? Have you levels gone down?
Did you have tingling in your body ?
What were your symptoms? You must’ve had some nasty side effects surely?
They will gradually come down once you've removed the source. Why were you getting the injections in the first place? How are your levels now?
I suffered with B12 deficiency for over 4 years. I just started injections, I hope the damage isn't permanent.
Are you feeling better now? What happened on these 11 months?
@@KivySchool no. Turns out it was B1.
Hello, Doctor. I am currently taking a 500 mcg B12 supplement once a week. Would you consider this a good conservative dose, or too much? Thanks for the informative video.
Hey, glad you found it informative! Let's do some maths. :)
500 μg once per week will provide ~2 μg through active absorption and a further ~7.5 μg through passive diffusion. Spread out over a week this will average ~1.4 μg per day - I think that's a little low.
Even a 50 μg supplement taken daily will provide ~2 μg through active absorption, and a further ~1 μg through passive diffusion - that's ~3 μg absorbed per day, while only taking in 350 μg per week instead of 500. I'm leaning towards daily supplementation for this reason - you can take a lower overall dose but still absorb enough B12. Hope this helps!
@@DrDesHarrington would you mind doing a very specific video like you did on Omega-3 supplements and which ones you recommend based on this new information?
There aren't as many pitfalls as there are with omega-3 supplements, but yes I can definitely do a video on that, too!
Hi, guess what? I just bought a bottle of B12 with 5,000 mcg thinking it was a good purchase, now that I've seen this I don't think so. I wish I would've done things the other way around !!
5000mcg holt shiet lol
Is this just for maintenance? If so, you could still use that supplement, but as outlined in this video you might only need to take it every 2 weeks or so:
czcams.com/video/WjSdALh1YVE/video.html
Is it dangerous to take the conservative 100mcg supplement when also sometimes eating fortified foods such as cereals?
Depends on how much is in the cereal and how much u have, in moderation is fine as long as u don’t have it everyday otherwise cutback on the supplements
Couldn't have put it better myself!
Hello, Doctor. I realize that you may not want to promote any particular manufacturer, but yet could you kindly recommend, for example, smth that you personally use. Do you think
Solgar, Vitamin B12, 100 mcg is fine?
Thank you in advance!
Hello! The only reason I didn't really discuss specific brands is because there are less pitfalls with B12 supplements as with the likes of EPA/DHA supplements, the excipients tend to be okay as a rule since cyanocobalamin doesn't need to be stabilised with questionable ingredients.
Solgar are usually pretty good and that 100 mcg dose is handy, Doctor's Best do a good one as well. The BetterYou B12 spray is good if you're looking for a methylcobalamin supplement, I stopped using it for that very reason though, it's a pity they don't do a cyanocobalamin version. As usual, the shorter the ingredients list tends to be better (but not always).
The most important thing is to try and find a more conservatively dosed cyanocobalamin supplement. If there's any particular brand you're interested in you could link it here and I'll have a look at it if you like!
@@DrDesHarrington , thank for your answer.
I have heard many times, that B12 should be taken sublingually by chewing, but it is difficult to find cyanocobalamin in such forms. What can you advise?
@@nikitateslenko9210 In my reading on B12 I haven't seen anything convincing to suggest the superiority of the sublingual route for most people. Tablets are fine! Solgar do a sublingual one though, if you really want one. :)
@@DrDesHarrington Hi, You mentioned (cynocobalamin) doesn't need to be stabilized with "questionable ingredients". Is that why You prefer "Cynocobalamin" over "Methylcobalamin"?
It is now 2023. Has anything changed regarding your opinion of the best form of B-12?
I have always heard that "methylcobalamin" was the best form of B-12. Wow -- confusing. Also, what about "best Brand" today?
Thank You for your Content. Very good. Hope you are still doing Commentary in 2023. Will Subscribe if You are.
I'm on a whole food vegan diet. I take methylcobalamin b12 spray once a day. After watching this video I'm concerned that I'm taking too much. I also use chlorella powder 1 tsp a day and use fortified nutritional yeast on my food. I'd appreciate some insight if possible .
Hello Jessie, way to go with the diet! :D What dose is the spray? Have you had your level tested?
@Fluffy Hamster wrong oh wrong. I was put on B12. 1000mcg/day 11 months ago. When they also put me on Metformin 50 mg/day. 9 months prior I was tested for B12. I tested then 442. I began getting rash on hands and mainly fingers. PCP had me see dermatologist. She said eczema. Very quickly. Gave me some lotion. I don’t believe she thought through my incoming medical questionnaire as I listed 7 medications. PCP and Dermatologist shot back what you say. B12 is water soluble, any excess will just be urinated out. The day I was given the lotion, as I already suspicious after seeing another CZcams video, I also stopped B12. Friday was day 10 without taking B12 and I did a B12 blood test. 897! I see my PCP Monday. Had been sporadically getting dizzy spells accompanied by a soreness from my throat to my belly button. Had a trip to urgent care November 22 for that. This video also said of an association for esophageal and lung cancer. Those subjects will be discussed Monday, too.
People aren’t saying that the cyanide in Cyanocobalamin is dangerous… and they don’t even say that it is bad for everyone. Bioavailability is not the biggest concern either. What people are saying is that 15% of people are unable to methylate this synthetic form of B12 and this causes an increase of it doesn’t matter how much you put in, and in fact more can be worse. For people that are unable to methylate the vitamins, their body produces something called HOMOCYSTEINE and having an elevated amount causes severe symptoms in the body and neurological disorders. It can produce symptoms mimicking ADHD, OCD, High Blood Pressure, Anemia, and there are some examples of mental disorders like Bipolar mania being triggered from this.
This B vitamin may not be overly harmful to 85% of the population, but 15% of the population has genetic variations that won’t allow them to methylate this vitamin correctly, and that is a massive problem. 15% of the population equals out to more than a Billion people worldwide and around 54 Million Americans in the USA… If you’re going to address this issue, do it correctly.
I am very happy that you mention the downsides of getting more than enough B12, because it seems that in the vegan community it's like a taboo subject! due to sanctions and inaccessibility, in my country Iran, I can not find a low-dose vegan B12, so I have no choice but taking a 1000 µg supplement! You covered the title brilliantly, but I have another question about Cyanide. Should We Be Concerned About the Cyanide from B12 supplements? For example, the leaflet in "Vitamin B12 Gerda 1000 µg/4 ml" says for maintenance we should be consuming 1 ampule (as an oral solution) per week. but vegan doctors recommend sticking to 2000-2500 µg per week. So I drink 2 ampules each week. should I be concerned with its cyanide content? Considering that it's more economical to inject the ampule, is it a good idea to follow what the leaflet says and inject one ampule per month?
Bear in mind that high-dose supplementation is widely considered to be very safe, there's just some new stuff coming out that will need further investigation but the pros definitely outweigh the cons if you don't have access to more conservative doses. The cyanide from cyanocobalamin is low compared with what we get through diet anyway. I'll probably do a video going into specifics on form of cobalamin, dosing and all of that and that should answer your questions, so stay tuned!
@Dr. Des Harrington…
Please help me figure this out. WTH (heck) 🤦♀️. See somebody lied 🤥 to me; I’ve always heard that vegans and vegetarians have low B12? I don’t even use nutritional yeast? How is it that my B12 is so high even though I eat predominantly vegan? The only animal proteins/products that I eat are: organic Swiss cheese, and organic boiled eggs (for the pre-diabetes). Is it the avocados? Or could it be the eggs? Black beans? Hummus? Wild rice? I know it’s not the vegetables right?
B12
1,849 pg/mL
Standard Range
211 - 911 pg/mL
Flag
H
nice video. So I get that if we want to be super safe, we should take a less than 55ug supplement daily?
If less than 55 mcg you would perhaps need to look at taking it more than once per day. Remember, you would absorb around 1% passively and 1.5 actively, coming out to around 2 mcg, which is borderline, so if you were going to take it only once per day it would definitely be a good idea to also get tested at some stage to make sure you're getting enough!
Dear friend.
It is possible next videos read your precious information a little bit more slowly.
Many thanks.
I think it offers change of speed for any video when you click the settings part of the video. It should help slow it down. Click the tool symbol or the three white dots(if watching on a phone) and click “playback speed” it should help.
Hello, always trying to find the right balance between talking too fast and not having the videos become boring or excessively long! I always upload subtitles as well, if that is of any help!
if i grow all my own food and drink from a spring im not going to get enough b12.. surely we have to get it from eating animals like we always have.. i cant even get low doses of b12 the lowest is 500 in a spray and it has ethanol in it
Is it safe to rely on b12 fortified foods like soymilk and nutritional yeast?
Yes, even in the time since I published this video I think this has become a much more viable option; so many vegan foods are fortified these days that I think it is quite easily doable without even thinking about it. Like even something as simple as having a fortified plant milk with most meals should get you there. I don't worry about getting a regular B12 supplement myself these days since it has become so abundant in vegan foods the last few years!
Dr, After how many days Or months should we stop b12 supplement to get accurate b12 result?
You've touched on one of the reasons here why the standard B12 test isn't very good - it only shows the amount in the serum, not functional status. Do you have access to the HoloTC or MMA test? If not, most of the artefact in the standard test from oral intake of high-dose supplements should be gone after 2 weeks.
Its annoying how we aren't taught this stuff as children, they just say eat healthy lifes not perfect, people are designed to be sophisticated, we should be messing with things more
Completely agree!
Im worried.. my b12 levels are 1555.5 thats more than double the amount needed.. how do i lower it? I know its water soluble.. but.. what if i check again in a week and it doesnt go down?
Very high B12 conditions can (very rarely) indicate certain haematological conditions, hence the upper reference range. Usually being double the reference range is no problem at all, however. What was your level on the repeat test? A week between tests wouldn't really make much of a difference no matter what you did in the interim.
Doctor i have been taking 500mcg of b12 a day and i get a lot of anxiety...my folate show up low in my Blood test.....could taking a high b12 dose lower the folate level in the Blood?
Forgive for my english..
Tank you
There could be a number of issues at play here, you would need input from a doctor with full access to all your bloods and records to take any kind of intervention here.
What about a dosage lower than 100 mcg? Deva Multivitamins, the lowest has 6 μg, would it suffice Dr.?
I am thinking about it too.
@@savushkina182 From what I understand, lower is better but I still decided to try both Solgar's 100 mcg and Deva Multivitamins. First, the 100 mcg one since I'm just beginning my plant-based journey. Deva for backup if I don't want to drink many tablets at once. How is it for you?
If taking multiple times per day, yes!
@@DrDesHarrington Awesome! Thank you for answering Dr.
5:32 most "meat eaters" don't eat liver and kidney actually most "Meat eaters" eat a plant based processed food diet at leas in the USA. Nabisco and Kellogg's
For sure, these refined plant products are not health, either!
Can b12 deficiency makes you hemoglobin dropes or is only iron?
It can if severe, but other metrics in the full blood count would probably have gone off before haemoglobin starts to drop, depending on status of other micronutrients amongst other things.
I have a reading of serum b12 of 954..is this a normal reading
As I discuss in this series serum B12 level is not the best marker of functional status. I would be more interested in what your strategy for B12 supplementation looks like!
I have a question what is the best dose of B12 liquid to take daily without harm
Hey! I outline how to work out a dosing strategy for B12 in this video, this would apply to liquid formulations as well:
czcams.com/video/WjSdALh1YVE/video.html
If you want to take it daily, a dose of 100 mcg should be fine!
Is B-12 bad for people with anxiety/panic attacks and seizures? ☹️
I would try it and see how you get on. In this case getting it from fortified foods might be a better option. What did you go with in the end?
@@DrDesHarrington I just kind of skipped it tbh. Too afraid to take a chance, that was just me though
@@HalcyonxTeatree Just make sure to get your levels checked then every once in a while!
@@DrDesHarrington sure thing, thank you!
Doesn't low folate cause anemia also?
Yes it certainly does...happily though a WFPB diet is a terrific source of this nutrient! I would say folate deficiency is the norm rather than the exception when we investigate haematinics in clinical practice - people simply are not eating a healthy enough diet rich in whole plant foods!
Is not the MMA test a god way to check if the b12 is absorved?
Yes, that is the gold standard test for functional sufficiency. The problem is not everyone has access to it! If you have, then great!
I took b12 supplement for one Mont only, one film under the tounge. Now I got high blood pressure, and tingling sensation in the forehead. I stopped it of course, what is your recommendation Dr?
B12 uses a lot of potassium, magnesium, iron and folate, you need to take lots of potassium rich food. I get tingling and heart palpitations too after my injection.
I recommend symptoms and signs like that be checked out by your doctor - it's not necessarily the B12 causing them! How did you get on since?
I have always understood that. B-12 is eliminated via urine. If excessive.
It sure is!
Yogurt is good source of b12 ?
Not unless it's fortified.
Thanks for the video on B12.
Please help me figure this out. WTH (heck) 🤦♀️. See somebody lied 🤥 to me; I’ve always heard that vegans and vegetarians have low B12? I don’t even use nutritional yeast? How is it that my B12 is so high even though I eat predominantly vegan? The only animal proteins/products that I eat are: organic Swiss cheese, and organic boiled eggs (for the pre-diabetes). Is it the avocados? Or could it be the eggs? Black beans? Hummus? Wild rice? Vegetables? I.e. red peppers, onions, avocado every day. I also eat a green leafy vegetable most days of the week (Red leaf lettuce, kale, or spinach). I only eat almond milk, or a non-dairy milk. I’m very confused.
B12
1,849 pg/mL
Standard Range
211 - 911 pg/mL
Flag
H
Thanks for stopping by! You seem to be based in the US, is that correct? Afaik plant milks can be fortified with B12 there, and you would be getting a certain amount from the cheese and eggs. Remember lots of human dose-responses to nutrients are on a normal distribution or 'bell curve', so the amount you're taking in might just be enough to push you up over the range given your unique physiology that puts you on the high end of the bell curve!
How are you feeling now?
@@DrDesHarrington ok. Correct! Yes I only drink Almond milk; however, I have been eating 🍽 pasture raised eggs daily.
@@lullabygoodbye25 I have energy most days. I feel good 👍.
@@youtubeisgodsblessing My B12 was very low and I got injections, now it's >2000 10 days after the last one. I feel amazing, but I'm experiencing dull headache at the back. I'm just wondering if that should pass after the vitamin levels stabilizes or should I check B1/B6 levels. :/
I heard excess b12 is just peed out & that a megadose can supply you for the week as it's stored in the body... I downed a WHOLE bottle of b12 pills & have been popping more like candy figuring it could only do me good considering the previous statement... Yeah I've been wayyyy over doing it.. I'm worried now how it may harm my body... I'm not taking any more for at least a month.. Smh I feel so stupid.. Just hope I didn't fuck my body up already =S
No worries, you know better now! How have you been since?
How are you?
@@DrDesHarrington ok I guess
I just bought some Rexall B12 today, it’s Subliminal 5000 mcg did I get the right one??
If this is for maintenance and not repletion, and if you favour infrequent dosing, that could work just fine. You could even take that as infrequently as every two weeks! More on these dosing strategies in this video:
czcams.com/video/WjSdALh1YVE/video.html
If you are taking this to correct low levels, take it as directed by your doctor!
Thanks. So confusing - not this video, that is good, I mean the emerging knowledge on the subject. From 1000 or 1500 mcg twice a week depending on available tablets, now at age 64 based on Dr. Greger's latest recommendation take that every alternate day, to make it daily on hitting 65. And I chew the tablet although it's not a stated sublingual type again as implied from watching Dr. Greger's video. Cyanocobalamin without added iron is not available here in India so I'm taking the methyl form. It's all a blur... anyhow Thanks for your videos including this one, now I watched it 3 years after it was uploaded.
Sounds like you're doing the best you can anyway, yes I've heard of these particular issues with the available supplements in India. Remember the specific B12 absorption mechanism is vulnerable to failure as we age, so the argument for erring towards megadoses goes up to take advantage of passive absorption.
@@DrDesHarrington 😊👍
How much vitamin B 12 should I take I am 83
Depends on lots of factors, at that age megadosing is the most sensible once you have established that you already have a good functional level and do not need replenishing. See more on dosing strategy here:
czcams.com/video/WjSdALh1YVE/video.html
This is a concern, like other commentators I've also been getting heart palpitations and muscle cramps.
I've been dosing 2000mg per week as recommended by Dr Greger. I will reduce my dose now.
Is anyone clear on Dr Harrington's dosage. Is it 100mg per day or per week? 😀
Hi, Joe! How have your symptoms been since? I hope you've had them checked out! I think a good middle ground is 100 mcg per day, as outlined in this video:
czcams.com/video/WjSdALh1YVE/video.html
@@DrDesHarrington Thank You for your kind reply, after watching your video I lowered my dosage to one 1000mg per week this seemed to have helped with my heart rate but I've developed several ectopic beats in different chambers my G.P found another change in my latest ECG so I'm to have another scan.
I'm thinking they are probably not related to my b12 intake but I'm going to keep my level at 1000mg and if I occasionally miss a tablet as I do I just leave it to the next week, so I think I probably average around the 700 to 800 mark per week.
Thanks again for your concern and reply and for your excellent work and videos.😀
@@MrJoeOB Ah yes, that sounds like there is something more than B12 going on there, you are wise to get it fully looked into. Good luck with your cardiac investigations, and glad I could help you come up with a better B12 dosing regimen! :D
What is your advice on B12 toothpaste?
They work and are a great way to get B12 if you regularly forget to take supplements, it's just going to be a little more costly!
@Dr. Des Harrington
Thank you for your reply. But is it healthy? Do you know anything about that?
It would depend on the individual product, all the stuff in the toothpaste not related to B12. As it relates to B12 itself though, the toothpastes that have been tested seem to work, but again it is important to check your levels every so often regardless of how you get your B12! Do you have any particular product you're wondering about?
I take 7500 Mcg daily and feel great!
What is your mood like? Also doesn't raise homosystein levels?
Great stuff! :D
I got three 3 shots of vitamin B, I skipped 2 days in between each shot, and on the 3rd shot I noticed stomach pain, diarrhea and my face and back break out. I stopped taking vitamin B. Does anyone know when will my skin get better?
My forehead is terrible. Has your skin gotten better?
Tracy Nope, not really. My face used to be clean and clear. Now I'm also getting pimple in my upper back. I'm washing my face every night before bed and it seems like it helps a little bit. I read an article and it stated that the liver will store the vitamin b for 2 or 3 years so we will be facing this problem for that long. SMH
MrOldeastdallas thank you! Let’s hope it’s not years and we can get it out of our system sooner. Wish I knew all this, I thought I was doing a good thing! Hopefully you’re getting closer to it calming down 💗
MrOldeastdallas vitamin c may help destroy the absorption of b12. I’ve been squeezing lemon into my water a few times a day, hopefully it helps. Just go gentle if you try this.
MrOldeastdallas sorry I’m a pain! But another thing that might be helpful is avoiding food high in b12.....unless you’re already doing that......anyways take care, hope it clears up soon!
Yes my doctor top line in Memphis. After virus I have a full day with dietitian.
I have 2 questions, 1) why if you have a B12 deficiency a lot of doctors recommend 1000mcg "daily" if you don't absord that much? It should take months and months to recover from the deficency this way.... and 2) how can we convert the mcg to pg/mL (as the test shows) so we know how long it will take to refill our B12 supply if we have a deficiency? (what is the math behind it).
For example, I have 168 pg/mL of B12 (which is extremely low), and I take 1000mcg daily...how long would it take to reach lets say 600 or 800pg/mL? ( i dont know what number is normal)
1) I think that is because these recommendations are intended for people who have a low level of cyanocobalamin already. And those who have problems with the absorption of cyanocobalamin. a lack of intrinsic factor or something.
Hi Andy, Yulia is correct. There are different levels of aggression in repletion strategies for B12 depending on level, symptoms, cause and so on. Your doctor might have appraised your situation as only requiring oral repletion with 1000 mcg B12 given your own personal situation. In terms of converting intake to (rate of) change in serum level, there is no calculation for this since it is going to be different for everyone given their own unique physiology. How have your levels been since? Hope this helps!
@@DrDesHarrington I had pretty bad symptoms with the deficiency. Within the first 1-2 months after taking the vitamins, all the symptoms were gone. When I checked my levels 6 months after, B12 was normal.
The impressive thing was that my mood improved A LOT! I guess the B12 def causes some depression.
@@AndyBandi2000 Great stuff, delighted to hear it! :D
@@AndyBandi2000 How long were you taking it and how much?
I’ve had about 10,000% of b12 today
I had 16k% from drinking gamersupps. Over dosing on b12 is not super safe. I confirmed this with my doctor.
Duck weed is a plant based B12
Wow, you're right! Hadn't come across that one before!
I have myself done injections in my deltoid muscle...after doing my pushups.
Injections should certainly be done under the supervision of a healthcare professional!
Eggs
I recently got tested and in report I have low vitamin d and b12
Vit d was really low like around 2 , deficiency was marked as anyone below 10
Vit b12 was 64 pg/ml recommend range was 120-914
Doctor recommended mylamin ( tablet by macleods) but when I saw it contains 1500 microgram of methylcoblamin per tablet, I was shocked as only 2.4 MCG is required by adult per day 😮😲
This is what I understood from this video and based on some other research. Please correct me or comment if understanding is correct.
--> vit b12 is water soluble that means most of it will be gone in urine.
--> though it is water soluble but it is rare one which can be stored by body as well
--> so out of 1000 MCG our body might be able to atleast get 2.4 MCG from the tablet.
--> our gut have this as Bacyeria but it needs to be activated
--> if you are going to take b12 as supplement the best idea would be to go ahead with some tablet which have 100-500 MCG as 1500 MCG is way too much
Hello! These megadoses of B12 were actually developed with cases like yours in mind. The purpose of these very high doses is to take advantage of the small amount of passive diffusion of the nutrient so that we do not have to rely on the specific B12 absorption mechanism (intrinsic factor et al) which is very commonly found to be working sub-optimally and may be part of the cause of B12 deficiency. But since only around 1% is absorbed passively, we need a very high dose to ensure that that 1% is enough, and has to be even higher if repletion is the goal rather than maintenance via the oral route. In your case the high dose is appropriate since you are deficient in B12, and the risks of leaving this inadequately under-treated far outweigh the risks of high-dose B12. Repletion strategies are different than maintenance strategies, and should be managed under the care of a doctor - as you are wisely pursuing. Sounds like your current regimen is appropriate! And yes, you are correct in saying that our gut bacteria produce B12, but seemingly we cannot absorb this directly.
As for your low vitamin D, I've just started a series on this nutrient that might be of interest to you!
Centrum Silver for men have 100 mc B12 per tablet
But it also contains other vitamins and minerals that we already get from vegan food.
Right and right!
585 too high?
No
How did you arrive at 585?
What do you think is going on in that study? multivitamins did not increase cancer risk and women did not get an increase with the one carbon metabolism supplements.
Like the authors of the study, I'd only be guessing tbh. Oestrogen is often found to be protective in a wide range of pathologies. Studies like this ask more questions than they answer, hopefully there'll be more research on this and we'll get some answers fairly soon!
Why do uou go on about saturated fat and cholesterol etc as baggage?
These are essential to life.
Maybe you should get in touch with Ivor Cummins..Dr Paul Mason..Dr Aseem Molhatra..Zoe Harcombe..Dave Feldman..Ted Naimen.
Etc
I am watvhing your video as many symptoms of B12 def..though blood B12 over 1400.
Also, if you're preaching a vegetarian diet dogmatically, you might wanna expand your horizons...