Does Running Help or Hurt Climbing // Jonathan Siegrist
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- čas přidán 14. 07. 2024
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How accomplished is Jonathan Siegrist? Well, he’s climbed six 5.15s… JUST THIS YEAR! That ticklist includes Event Horizon, a route he bolted that’s at least 15b and very well may be harder. It’s certainly one of, if not the, hardest routes in North America. Earlier this year he had an unbelievably impressive trip to Spain where he sent three 15a's, two 14d's, and a handful of other 5.14s. Remember I’m just talking about the past 12 months here. His accomplishments on rock, from 5.14 on gear, to V14 boulders, to now countless 5.14 / 5.15 sport climbs… are crazy impressive and he's only getting better. Beyond his insanely impressive climbing resume, J Star has bolted hundreds of routes, many of them now super classic. This guy is as real as it gets, his stoke level is off the charts, and I know your’e going to get a TON out of this conversation.
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I'm an intermediate climber and running helps me keep my weight in the right place without having to worry about my diet too much. Probably not the optimal solution but I think it's beneficial to me
Manage your effort/fatigue and you can probably do both. Prioritize one depending on up coming goals. It doesn’t have to always be this or that. But if you are getting paid to do one, prioritize that one for sure.
I'm not getting paid for either but at least my back looks great and so do my legs. My endurance is great in climbing from running.
Used to run, stopped for similar reasons, took up long night walks instead. Feels good man.
Absolutely LOVE these videos. Such good guests, such good questions to really get the most out of them. You always build such a good rapport straight off the bat and discussing your own climbing experience really helps to contextualise things. Brilliant all around, but I must admit that the little summary text boxes on screen always make me chuckle.
I really appreciate the kind words and support. I’m working hard to create useful content! As for the text boxes - do you feel they’re not necessary? Could save me some time if they’re not helpful 😅
I think It manages to both help and not help. It helps to have been a runner or general endurance athlete for a good part of your life. That builds a really good base that you feel the benefit for years, unless you go completely sedentary. But running as part of training to actively improve endurance on the wall in that cycle won't work and will hinder most likely
Well I think it helps more to have been a climber, that would build a much better base.
Running brought you to climbing. It got you comfortable with being uncomfortable so don't take that for granted.
I like 'If running brings you joy, keep doing it' much better as a title for the video and the best key message. Yeah lots of peeps do too much cardio and to much in the 'pain box' but encouraging moderation is better than encouraging quitting.
I feel like no one is recommending skipping climbing for running to improve climbing, but that is what these videos on this topic end up being about. None ever cover running a moderate amount on your off days, which I think is the most likely scenario.
i got asthma and concaved ribs, which means that while I can easily ramp up my VO2 Max, any endurance-type cardio is an exercise in futility: It's just a matter of time before my body strangles itself to a stop.
Instead, I'll do kettlebell swings and burpees when I train antagonist groups, as that gets you pumping, but is also over in 30 seconds; about the same VO2Max result.
If you don’t have many climbing friends and can only get to a wall or crag a couple of times a week, cross training becomes a much stronger proposition.
You’re still probably better off doing pull-ups or hangboarding though (said without evidence, just guessing).
Yes that Bechtel quote hahahah
Honestly? I improved in climbing when I started to run. I run 2 times per week and I climb 3 times + 1 additional training session to improve total body strength, with focus on core. Probably it depends by my avg level, which is low, but I feel higher endurance level and probably it helped me in controlling my weight...
All great points, and if it’s working for you then that’s all that matters anyway 💪
No pain no gain is out:
czcams.com/video/MALsI0mJ09I/video.html
HIT high intensity training
Or can also do 10/50 seconds 10 times:
run 10 seconds as fast as you can, walk 50 seconds, repeat it 9 times.
For special climbing forces:
czcams.com/video/sBTI9qiH4UE/video.html
Running hurts single pitch sport climbing, helps with climbing
i had to give up cycling, climbing performance improved substantially. Cardio kills gains especially bouldering hard. It's sad but doing both at a high level is not really possible. I think you can be great at cardio and ok at climbing, but not the other way around. There is a proven interference effect. Anyone who thinks doing a cardio sport concurrently with climbing helps climbing doesn't know what they are talking about, unless you are overweight/obese.
Have you got any articles/studies about the interference effect that you could link? I'd love to take a bit of a dive into it as I've always had an inkling that having a reasonable cardio base would probably be beneficial for climbing overall, regardless of style
@@micchops3921, depends what perspective you're looking at it from. If you spend most of your time working a sedentary job then maybe improving your aerobic base to that of general recommendations (150 mins mod aerobic activity/week) would be advantageous. Above that of the minimum may then destroy climbing gains.
@@micchops3921 "Skeletal Muscle Hypertrophy with Concurrent Exercise Training:
Contrary Evidence for an Interference Effect" is a (fairly) recent meta analysis that actually calls into question a lot of the "common knowledge" conclusions about interference effect.
To be clear though, for 'strength' (in the precise sense of the word) taxing your systemic-recovery with any significant amount of cardio (as in: an amount that you would need to excel in some endurance sport like cycling or running) would undoubtedly harm your strength development - at the VERY least it would reduce the amount of strength-related volume you could recover from per week which is already enough to detract. Not that "30 minutes a week" is that significant an amount, and according to some data it may actually help with hypertrophic development.
@Solaari57 Great link! I went on a deep dive after reading the meta-analysis you linked.
Seems as though the consensus is leaning towards concurrent training is generally not damaging to strength development, given adequate rest between utilising the different systems. With a caveat that there could be a blunting effect on maximal rate of force development depending on programming structure and intensity.
The tricky part of this might be that most of the studies are focused on improving both aerobic and strength performance. As someone who is focused on climbing, I would be more interested to know if there is benefit to improving my aerobic capacity to just a reasonable level, then maintaining it with minimal stimulus.
It seems logical that having improved aerobic output would enhance recovery rates, work capacity and on the wall aerobic performance. If there is little/no interference effect at this level of polarised training, you'd simply reap the benefits that general aerobic training can provide while maintaining the same performance/increases in strength.
I'm 38 years old. For the past six months I've been running twice a week (10 miles total), swimming twice a week (3000 yards total), and climbing four times a week. Which means on some days I'm doing cardio in the morning and climbing in the evening or vice versa. And guess what: the cardio has immensely benefited my climbing. I can go way longer before getting gassed on taller climbs, and I recover much faster between climbs/attempts as well, which means I can climb more stuff in any given session. Not easy stuff either. Think 5.11s and up. Making steady progress too.
I also climb with people who do very little or no cardio, and they are the EXACT opposite. My belay partners often will ask me if I want to climb a second time because they're still recovering from their previous climb.
The important thing is that the amount and quality of your sleep and nutrition needs to match your level of physical activity. I sleep nine hours a day, uninterrupted, I don't drink alcohol or eat junk food, and I always make sure to eat at least maintenance calories if not a bit higher. If I fall off the wagon on any of these (e.g. special occasions) then I feel it immediately.
So yeah, cardio and climbing can definitely go together, so long as you're disciplined.