Swain's Rework: Where Everything Went Wrong | League of Legends
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- čas přidán 26. 11. 2021
- Welcome back to another episode of the Rework Retrospective! It's been a very long time since the last episode but worry not! I haven't forgotten about this series. Today we're gonna be talking about a champion who Riot somehow managed to screw up despite not requiring any major adjustments from the old one. So let's dive into Swain: The Noxian Grand General
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#LoL #Swain #Rework - Hry
They should give this champ some love, he s so unique looking and has a special place in lore
Yea, fully clothed old men are rare nowadays
@@Ephior24 riots last ten releases have all been showing a lot of skin
@@gabrielantunez7642 bullshit. I hope this was a joke
He’s the overlord of noxus but the weakest person In noxus is crazy
@@Betroid well, he's not weak in the head and for tactics. He's not a grand general for nothing.
I just wish that Swain could be played again as a mid/top battle-mage instead of being reduced to a support pick, same thing for Vel'koz and Xerath
Play him mid, he is way more effective trust me
@@gioisgud not entirely True. If you want to go swain as a draintank battle mage (liandri zhonyas visage boots and 2 mote items) he isnt playable since he loses to every single assasin and its virtually useless if he is behind
Plain him top was so good press r and run around
@@jogonra956 ngl, he is unplayable in the support lane, he just always steals kills with his q and r because they just deal wayyyyyy too much dmg, Swain is my 2nd most mastery, (kindred jgl first) and I always perform with him in the midlane
I play him like a Botlaner,Like Ziggs
I don’t understand what they were thinking with his new q, they could have so easily kept his old one (or a modernized version of it) and had a much more cohesive midrange kit. Better yet, give him his old q back, but replace it with the new one while he’s ulting. That way he fills a pretty cool niche of being a midrange champ who becomes closer range but hits a lot harder during ult.
this
@@ipanesm yeah I second this
That's a really good idea
DUDE Le epic SITH LIGHTNING xDDDD hes like palpatine!!!
thats all they were thinking.
genius idea
I remember when Riot said that they made him have the limp and walking with a cane anymore was because it made him look weak and feeble. I think whoever redesigned him missed the point of that part of his character because you see Noxus, the land where might makes right and you have this broken old man leading it. It hinted at there was so much more under the surface under that sick robe.
No. They changed his lore and he is no longer an old traditional mage who happens to possess extensive political acumen. His new lore includes his mastery over demonic powers + a powerful mage + a powerful leader. If he could completely subdue a powerful demonic entity, healing a limping foot is just a trivial problem. It's completely against logic that a powerful mage with demonic powers can't fully heal an injury.
'Might is right' part of Noxus was completly erased after swain lore rework now Noxus belongs in a grey zone instead of straight up evil
@@fbiagent6456 Thing went entirely over your head. Swain having a limp and looking decrepit was playing off the trope of the man who appears weak being immensely powerful. He didn't look like that because he was injured and couldn't fix himself, he looked like that because he was a FUCKING DEMON and that was the form he CHOSE to take.
Old Swain's visuals were very consistent with his old abilities, but they didn't match the lore at all. Nothing about his old design suggested he was a leader, let alone the freaking King of Noxus. They should have changed the lore to match the kit and the visuals, not completely throw away a perfectly good champion because he looks like a drifter or hermit.
@@uxie6177 Also, I'm rather certain in his lore rn he didn't completely subdue raum. I think they made some sort of deal.
Fighting old swain and confused why the mage was building tank was one of my earliest memory of league. I then played him and managed to 1v1 the fed Zedd with ease. Those were my most memorable moments of playing league. Even tho i never mained him, i do miss the old swain
Dancing while you were being ganked, because you healed faster than they could do damage was one of my best memories with old swain.
I have sweet memories of tank raid boss swain before the rework
I remember getting my first quadra kill with him
Not Swain related, but this comment made me think about the first time my friend and I laned against a lux. And the pair of us losing our shit when she dropped her combo at 6. 😂
I was main Swain before rework. Never play him again after rework.
Kinda fun and back then my most memorable is counter ganking.
After the rework I don't feel comfortable at all. Feels like lot of thing goes wrong. Especially his ult should be something that could be used anytime i want. Now, it's kinda bad for me. The damage is good but feel like it shouldn't be this way.
Facts old swain from season 2 was one of my favorite champs
Swain's W is his best and most fun ability. It's feels so great to control fights from 7500 units away. Cancel backs or push minion waves. Hitting multiple people during a teamfight can really turn it around. It all applies so well to his theme as a grand general controlling the battlefield.
after playing swain for a few games playing any other champ after feels so restricted, not being able to assist mid lane half the map away sucks, other supports have hooks but not at such a low cd that goes through minions.
Thematically swains whole kit it just good. He is this mighty leader who stands above everyone. Menacing in battle having a perfect view of the pawns of his army and the enemies reflected by his ult. His E is his control and eyes on his region through spies that report back to him stopping resistance and making his grasp stronger on his country (his W and crows reflect this) his E is literally his grasp on the country and understanding of battlefield tactics. Knowing when to lure enemies in through espionage (crowd again) and the chess master he is manipulating the enemies to move where he pleases. His Q reflects his political power and his tyranny. The closer you are in his ranks the more dangerous he is to you. Being able to replace you at his will.
It's great for checking bushes as well
Really agree on this one. I always max W as swain, and it always catches people off guard when I throw one down in the middle of mid lane from bot lane to set up a kill or gank.
Fiddles' rework was actually pretty intensive, in terms of locking him down to a role; prior to the rework, Fiddles could simultaneously be a 1v1 nightmare with the incredible sustain on his drain (which he could always secure with his fear), while also leaning into a teamfight setting with his ult and bouncing crow, but both were somewhat awkward insofar as the skillset didn't commit to either (like a certain hero who may or not be the topic of this video). The rework put him squarely in the teamfight setting, with every skill being more effective in a multi-target scenario while also making his 1v1 potential very frail.
It was honestly kind of impressive how much of his focus they managed to shift without dramatically altering his gameplay (outside of fake-ward baits).
Fid was definitely the best rework, hands down. I liked a lot of them but his was the best- it kept the feel of the old champ and updated the abilities and visuals in a way that he fits with the modern roster. Swain feels…bad to learn. His most reliable combo essentially brings the enemy close to you. As a squishy mage early game, you do not want to bring the enemy Yasuo or Yone close to you. You need time to scale, but his kit doesn’t give him that time. So he’s relegated to support. And he doesn’t do too good there either since champs like lux and morg do the same job, but better since they don’t have to deal with his clunkiness.
I think the rework for fiddlesticks was kinda bad, I think overall the ability changes in a jungle perspective is good, but they basically ensured fiddle would never really solo lane with his new passive being so useless mid and top, bouncing crow was so good in lane and the synergy to drain to put prio on where the crow bounced was a fun interaction, an engage pre6 would be a fear for his passive, then crow then drain to keep the crow bouncing on them, I used to only play fiddles and havent since the rework
@@redspyblueworld3523 no he was absolutely broken on lane at the beginning of his rework that They needed to kill his laning completely.
Bach then he healed full from a single w on wave.
@@redspyblueworld3523 lane fiddle should never be good. The crow was always unfun to lane against, thats why they pretty much gutted his E.
@@redspyblueworld3523 fiddle too is actually decent you play with ur bushes just like rengar with ur effigy’s
At least they nailed his theme. Hands down the best musical theme (and that's not an easy task to fulfil when it comes to lol themes) at least imo.
I love how crows appear when you play him
his theme is my alarm no kidding.
@@gabrielantunez7642 Ravens fam. They're ravens.
Best musical theme is tahm kench
I prefer the Lillia theme
I'm one of the players who used to adore old swain and play him frequently, to me he had a very "warlock" feel to him with the whole tanky damage over time caster playstyle he had. The main issue I have with him at the moment is how feeble he can feel at close range, his current incarnation has a disconnect in that q is a very short cooldown nuke but his other two basic abilities are very awkward to hit on a close range opponent, in addition to this unlike his old q you can't easily slow + space melee champions anymore in order to fight them at 400ish range like he could pre-rework. This rework could be salvaged if they would just admit that in the modern state of the game the reliability of E > W simply isn't there and even if you land both too many champions can either fight back and win or simply escape the combo to begin with. It would have been cool if they added a conditional hard cc onto his spells like Poppy W, preserved his high damage over time and not turned him into this pick champ with his passive very little counterplay if he duo lanes with a champion with hard cc, it just makes him prey on the weak adcs in botlane.
maybe if they gave W a slight slow on cast, and made E a recastable ability that made the claw return early?
Reminds me on how Gardevoir in Unite has one move thats an aoe explosion like Swain's W, and her other move is a cc skill shot that can be either a stun or slow, so you can hit it (one is even a mini Graves ult with a shield). But even in that game it's typcally too hard to hit it so everyone uses her other move (which is like MF's E controled like Taliyah's Q). But she at least is consistently an artillery mage.
A grounded on the w casting time would be very cool
The only place wherw I see a swain is as support, just like almost every mage. Maybe the new crown item will help in mid, but im not sure because Sylas and Ekko can build it as well.
i think like vars was saying theres too much disconnect in his abilities i think maybe if they made his w more like vex w when cast on yourself and maybe your e rooting in that field could make his q nuke and r drain better but even then i think you will still mainly get your dmg from r and it wouldn't fix the fact that you litterly cant hit w on a enemy champion with boots.
idk thats my thoughts
THANK YOU. I was a Swain main from S6 (when I started playing) up till his rework, I absolutely loved how his abilities all synergized together. The rework felt like they just ripped old Swain out of the game and released a new champion in his place - and the new champion was worse to play. Old Swain's lack of popularity means that he always gets left out of the "bad reworks" pool that people like to bring up (Aatrox, Urgot, etc). On behalf of the 4 pre-rework Swain mains, thank you for making this video.
Same :c
Same
same
I loved using swain top, dude was fucking unstoppable
I was a swain main too smh
I really miss Swain's Toggle ult, I think Toggle abilitys are some of the most fun in the game and it's a shame they are trying to remove them.
Because the game overall gained damage and most fights are over quicker than they were back then, so a toggle ability would have to be super OP to be useful early on in a fight (before he gets oneshot) or would be super weak unless the fight somehow does last 30 secs
@@gameplaytv1374 Swain has a very similar toggle ability and still manages to be a pretty decent champion, though does have a unique play style that doesn't suit many.
In other words, it works fine, all you need is for him to properly drain tank like his meant to.
@@kitkup8570 his r deals an absurd amount of damage and also heals him a ton. But because its all over time he can die before feeling the effects
@@gameplaytv1374 Who you talking about now?
Like what you just said doesn't make sense for the conversation.
@@kitkup8570 you say he needs to properly draintank. Does his ult not achieve that? It heals him a ton, there have been multiple occasions of him being built tanky to enhance it further. But it isn't really meta since draintanks suffer from the increased damage league now has overall. So most draintanks are too squishy and die before actually healing a lot
As a Swain main, I can't wait for this. I would have liked the new Swain much more if he was just a separate champion and didn't replace the old one. But it just feels like an insane downgrade with the ult toggle removed, insane mana costs, and inability to sololane
Old swain healing was insane, so fun.
Swain can solo lane it just takes more skill to do it
Inability to solo lane? He's great top and mid?
@@tastytaist9916 Is he great enough to be meta? I've never seen him top or mid.
He can solo lane. Just because it isn't brainlessly and dominating the meta doesn't make it unviable. I play neeko jungle and it isn't meta but I can carry games on it. Surely Swain mid can too.
Old Swain was one of my favorite champions ever released. I loved the Drain Mage Warlock. New Swain just feels nothing like it. His sustain is weak, his control is weak, his burst damage is cool but that was never what Swain was about. He was about lockdown, sustain damage and healing so that he could survive while dealing dmg with his kit. I agree they should have given him some Fiddlestick lovin' instead of just giving him some weird interaction with ally CC as well as an odd false warding ability with way too long a CD and thought "Ayeee he's a tactician now!" despite having an extremely 1 dimensional playstyle with even less decision making.
so true they completely ruined him just like mundo
Current Q would have worked as a replacement for Torment I think since it would have incentivised active dps instead of the Zhonyas cheese.
His sustain is fine..... hp wise tbh he could use some mana sustain.
The heals from w and e across laning phase add up.
@@Avionnnn y'all the ones who asked for a rework
@@brodiethebuilder8496 no main wanted his abilities changed. A visual rework was all that was needed.
I’ve been a Swain main for a long time (all post rework) and I think the biggest problem people have with this champ is that they just don’t understand the kit. You’re still a draintank, you still lock people down, and you still do lots of damage. They just shifted his power into teamfights instead. His E isn’t supposed to be easy in lane, but it IS supposed to be easy in your ult when you’re raidbossing a team fight.
Man, seeing old Tyrant Swain really made me nostalgic... As much as I say Riot keeps the whole theme of the champion after a rework, that half raven stumble he had on that skin and the way he played made him so much fun.
Thank you! Finally someone points this out. Whenever deleted champions come up no one mentions swain. Damn I miss old swain.
Maybe because new Swain's kit at **first glance** is a bit similar to old Swain in some regards.
But it's only when you look at it again do you notice the changes actually affect the gameplay of the character deeply.
It's understandable when people bring up Aatrox and Mordekaiser. There's like literally only 1 aspect they kept for those two champs, meanwhile Swain still has his Ult, teeeeechnically his W and E as well?
It's just that some aspects have been changed wich render his playstyle different that you otherwise wouldn't notice unless you're a main, that's propably why Swain is glanced over.
He's also pretty underrated despite being a hella simple and hella fun and satisfying Mage to combo with, one of the most "balanced" mages out there anyway.
@@mark030a I mean I don't have a problem with his current kit, I just miss his old kit.
I think the biggest thing that I hate about new swain is how he changed to a burst mage instead of a DoT mage. We have too much burst in the game now and I really like his drain mage playstyle that he had. where he was sorta tanky and dealt damage over time instead of just being another frail burst mage.
@@sorinnoctis652 Sadly, that is true. The game is much more snowball oriented now, I don't think that old Swain would even fit anymore...
@@sorinnoctis652 i'm not sure how yall are playing the new swain... but when I die and I see my death details saying I tanked 4.5k+ dmg when my healthbar is maybe 2-2.5k. That feels pretty tanky to me
@@SilverSmurfer05 I promise you, old swain could probably tank much more considering the healing was much better as well as direct spell vamp with will of the ancients.
You could be in the middle of the team fight being a tactician and controlling the spacing. New swain can't really do that. He has to kinda sit on the outskirts and play footsies.
I miss old Swain :(
He was one of my first mains, I loved building him so tanky with tear and frozen heart. Drain tank for years
I miss old Swain so much. He was my main until the rework, and now I don't play him. He was so fun.
Same man, it's easy to forget then when you're reminded you're like damn....I don't touch this anymore at all. Sad.
I feel you :'(
Glad someone talked about it. I loved old Swain and gave up on him after the rework because I felt his abilities didn't mesh as well as the old ones did
It hurts so much to see my favourite character put here, but it's so deserved. Riot gave him (in my opinion of course) some of the best characterisation ever in the entire League roster. Turned Noxus from a stereotypical villainous empire to a region with depth rivalling the Freljord. His philosophy is sane, his methods not so much. Machiavellian to the extreme but also not an asshat, understanding strength can be developed from the weakest of people. While still being completely insane and maintaining Noxus' brutal theme.
His kit on the other hand... it just doesn't fit the character in the slightest. The only ability I like is Vision of Empires, the rest is kinda meh.
Yeah if you look at his Lore, you expect him to be this badass strong mage played in mid/top but turns out he's a support...💀
I do only play him mid and trust me, he fucks everyone except some hard matchups even tho it's a rare case. I do carry with him pretty often. Don't let the "meta" dictate what should play and where you should
From a narrative and lore perspective, he sure improved a lot, but in this video Vars is talking exclusively about the gameplay, so you shouldn't take this video as an attack to the lore swain, more like to the rift swain.
His kit makes perfect sense lol- of course his kit isn’t gonna be about his type of dictatorship
It’s gonna be about his god damn demon hand lol.
Even then his root/pull fits his theme of dominance (not only is it represented by a hand, which could be associated with the phrase “iron fist” amongst other things) but it also is all about removing choice from that player.
When you root them, it’s up to you whether they stay there, or come to you, and either way it’s a win for you
@@randomth1ngs68 well, except how it's not really a win for you. a (practically) single target, short duration root isn't a very impactful ability. his q and r nukes are cool, but it doesn't fit what he used to be at all.
Old swain's simplicity was something that i loved so much, he was my main for almost 3 seasons, now he's not nearly as fun to play for me, even tho i still play him sometimes.
I feel compelled to subscribe after this video.
Riot's rework team really did Swain in with this "rework". There's nothing left of his original identity apart from the bird theme, and he's frankly half a champion without his ult.
I really hope he gets another rework.
I really liked swain post rework (i never played him before than, though). However, they changed his soul collection passive and heavily reduced his q damage to minions on a mini rework, which kind of killed him for me because he couldn’t lane anymore
I was an old swain main and it was just amazing.. after they reworked him I can't even look his way feels so sad because he's to this day my most played champion that hasn't been touched in like 5 years...
I understand because my old aatrox, Old Swain, old irelia and old akali were my top lane pool and I just can't play aatrox anymore and I don't enjoy swain anymore from the changes they dis. I don't even play akali or irelia regularly anymore because even with the same concept I don't have as much fun as before usually so I changed my core top pool after all the reworks
İ really miss old swain. His walking animation and dance was great. Also he was perfect to play against lane bullies in toplane. His toggle R was fun too
Yes, the old walk was great while the new has the gait of a prissy runway model. But, it was easy to read behind the lines of the developer updates and discern that a man with a cane is supposedly unsightly and offensive (I assume to a certain country's culture and/or to its government content controllers) and therefore "had to go." Unfortunately took away a huge element of his character achieving power through strategy that incorporated his disability. Compounding this is how his new character is a pure ripoff of Tywin Lanister from GOT, who despises disability and is therefore a complete betrayal of the old theme. In the end, it's extremely clear to see why the new skills were rather flat and completely threw away the strategic zone control of the old kit (which I loved): the people in charge of the update were concerned mostly with their lore and image "corrections" more than rich gameplay.
@@ChadDerekJacobson bruh what are you even talking about, you're describing him like you skimmed the spark notes instead of reading the actual book
@@vaultstar168 you sound like a troll but I'll give you a short timer; which descriptions sound like sparknotes and why?
@@ChadDerekJacobson Someone isn't a troll just because they disagree with you or poke fun at your claim. That aside, Swain specifically constructed Noxus as a pretty rigid meritocracy. Serving the state in any way can net you status and wealth, regardless of how "crippled" one might be. Swain's own story exemplifies how someone discarded can serve a greater purpose. And what's this about a model walk? His movement is rigid and stiff, visibly showing his military service and injuries from the front lines. That's not even starting on your GoT comment, you're just plain wrong there. It's perfectly fine to want more from the VGU, I did as well, but you don't have to be so bitter. Let's hope those changes they announced come through and at least shift his gameplay back to basics.
@@vaultstar168 the original Swain never "constructed Noxus" and I know nothing about his new lore since I don't care to read the in-client backstories anymore (major retcons multiple times a year make the chore boring); I'm merely going off what his in-game voice lines and animations convey while saying I miss what the same from old Swain said and you're welcome to read extra into that, but you're just fanfic-ing me, bruh
As a swain player that also dove deep into the lore of league, seeing his in game and lore identity completely changed when both were already in a good state was one of the most frustrating things I have seen riot do. They changed his lore from being a mysterious background soldier rising up to be a vicious general through incredible strategy and deception to..... a generic copy/paste noxian general that also has a bird thing. He was supposed to look weak and frail, not only for the deception reason, but because his first recorded record of existence was him casually strolling into a medical hut with a completely shattered leg, a raven on his shoulder, and not saying a word as he was treated, only to walk back out with a cane and a cast to rejoin the fight. That demeanor changing wildly into a bird monster fit with the thematic of weak deception and mystery from his magical bird. His bird beatrice being the center of his kit and magic made sense in and out of game. Now he is bland, with an incoherent kit, and a small playerbase left that appreciates the masterpiece that was his old self. Thank you for bringing light to an old, underappreciated champion and pointing out all the issues with his re-design.
Visually, this rework is amazing and very well done. It made me a Swain main because of how cool he looks. In terms of gameplay, Swain just shines best in the support role. Almost every other mage outranges him in Mid or Top.
While he looks good, I don't think that he's better, that weird fixation people have with "he's a raven demon thing, what is this?" is so strange. Yeah, bat demon makes more sense then a raven demon because one animal is more demonic then another. Suuuuuuuure.
The only reason for this is a habit, so instead of giving Swain a unique appearance they've made him a generic old guy with long hair who's also a generic demon. It's done well, but it's all too common
Nah. He is best as situational ADC (APC). That's also where the high elo otps are the most successful on this champ. Only in low elo he is a strong consistent support, everywhere above he is meh all though playable. Agree about mid, in toplane mages are bad in general. I guess Neeko and Cass are passable but very hard to have the same impact as traditional toplaners and easily abuseable in long lane with no/low mobility. Swain himself has big mana issues in toplane and is the most free gank target ever.
He "shines" best in support because he's poorly designed. He's basically unusable mid lane unless you snowball so incredibly hard that his poor scaling doesn't matter for the first 20 minutes. He's definitely passable as a support, but IMO he's ultimately a shittier thresh. He should be balanced around a bruiser/mage role mid or top, self-sufficient.
Think of someone like Xerath. He can be an extremely potent support, but he's also a decent/strong mid laner. Swain needs to go support to even be viable.
Oh boy, it’s time for my main and favorite character in League.
I never got to play the old Swain but I love him for the character theme, Lore and overall design just fitting together perfectly to put a nice spin and add nuance to a standard fantasy archetype. His voice is just very pleasant to listen to
When it comes to gameplay, he’s kinda decent at many things while not excellent at them. Which I’m fine with because well, my second highest mastery after the man himself is Senna. I was a botlane main even before I picked him up so I didn’t experience the solo-lane struggle that much and he feels excellent to play as both support or a carry: his playstyle is very oriented around ESTABILISHING DOMINANCE and territory control and bullying the oponent out of their own lane because he’s essentially a hook support that can hook you through minions. He’s especially strong with high impact all in ADCs like Jhin, tanks or other mages like Zyra (Swain Zyra is a nightmare to go against) and surprisingly, Rakan.
Picking him up as my main made bot lane fun to me once more as he outsustains pretty much any ADC and only gets hard countered by poke mages
His play style is weird: he’s a mage with decent burst damage but also a draintank and I noticed a lot of new Swain supports feel useless because they are not playing agressively enough.
I don’t know what would be the way to buff his solo laning potential without making him even more opressive down there in botlane.
I wish he got more attention as one of the most influential and important characters in the Lore of Runeterra. As in the guy everyone wants dead for invading their countries
eeeey, someone who i can agree with
lets goooo!
most people who say he's meh dont play him correctly, hes my main too and i agree with every point you make, his abilities chain to make him booth a burst and a control mage. i played the old swain aswell, and he was cool, but definitely less fun
This is my exact sentiment
@@TheLightBringer365 Thanks guys! I’m glad there is someone else who can relate
@@TheLightBringer365 but unlike OP some of us are coming from old Swain.
Coming from old Swain I was comfortable with how his all in worked. New swain I’m uncomfortable and I dislike how it works.
Swain weaknesses are assassin's the most overturned class in the game. He works well mid against other makes but you use your passive you are pretty much just setting yourself up to be one shorted and saving their rash
swain actually very much hard counters divers, though I understand what you mean, it is important to learn when to utilize your passive against certain champs.
@Mao LeBron his cc is certainly hard to hit at close range, but swain wants to be as close as possible to deal his damage. His cc is actually used specifically to bring his target closer and to confirm his w.
W can be hard to predict without the cc but can be used to zone people out due to the threat of the slow.
The main tools he has as an anti diver is his q and ult. The massive aoe these abilities do is very discouraging to a diver, moreso at point blank range. Pair that with a zhonya's (which swain always takes) and you can survive surprisingly long and very often kill a diver after their burst combo.
@Mao LeBron when and only when you get to mid-late game you can't get one-shoted by assassins/divers because of your ult(let's be honest, good passive doesn't give any serious amount of hp) and your Q is finally strong, especially when on-top of your opponent, while also having a low cd. In early game, though, you get destroyed... I do play him mid, but there are no GOOD lane matchups even though there are some unplayable ones
@@manolismarinakis8444 I second this. Swain mid is kind of troll. I've seen some people here suggest you can even play him top. No chance.
Swain is just bad in a solo lane. In mid he's playable, but there are tons of better options.
Swain mid that gets far ahead can be really scary, but getting ahead is not easy.
Honestly he's not doing good in solo lanes because he was nerfed specifically to be played support. He's also a late game champ so it's ok for him not to do a lot early, the problem is that the meta Is very early game focused and has been for a few seasons
I genuinely love this video. It definitely mirrors almost every complaint I have of current Swain. He feels so awkward to play, and what's worse is getting his abilities with their random ranges to flow with the rest of your team. You can't expect your team to follow up if even you feel uncomfortable/awkward with your own abilities. The idea that you sit back unless you want to all in with ult made MORE sense with old Swain's kit. I can't even count how many times now a days I see Swain's just run in and fling their spells without attempt to zone or anything because why bother, its awkward. Old Swain's identity made sense to the player, and it felt good to use his abilities correctly. Current Swain never really feels good, you just kinda feel like you are flailing about in team fights doing what you can. I miss the strategy of old Swain very much so.
I only started playing a few months ago and really like playing as swain at the start but now that I’m actually playing more seriously I can totally confirm that I’m stuck hiding behind towers and only getting a few hits in 😂
One of my earliest memories of playing League was being in a Coop. vs IA match against a Swain Bot. It was a rollercoaster. Sometimes, it'd be frustrating to see him tank so much damage and simply not die. Other times, it was surprising how much damage he dished out when he was underestimated.
His visual rework seems alright, but his old ultimate animation was so iconic, I think it was much better than the reworked one.
I DO like new Swain, especially his new look and general theme. But lets be honesr, it doesn't keep a single pinch of old Swain. The crow part, the thing he was all about is relocated to a visual effect you'll barely notice. His base form he looked like a sick older man with some serious sicknesses to his foot, only to reveal with his ult the true dangerous beast lurking within. Now he's a mighty general giving off constant Daddy energy. It's a completely different champ.
I love nature and animal based abilities and themes, and at this point Quinn is the only one left with any interactions with animals (and even she lost most of the cool Valor interactions)
Thats basically all of the recent rework champions, to me. They look cool but they lost the part of themselves that made them 'them', yknow?
Some of the champions needed it, Poppy.... Oh, God, Poppy needed it, but others I look at and wonder why they did it other than to make money or hide a mistake they dont want to admit they made.
@@LeuvahkTrigger I love Poppy now, but I also loved old Poppy. Still somewhat mad that they completely changed her personality, her being a somewhat mean/focused yordle was unqiue
@@Ghilannugs Thats actually my biggest grief with her new design, haha.
They seem determined to make all the yordles all happy go lucky, like some kind of Kender from the Dragonlance series, wanderlust and all.
Which, in my eyes, is why Vex, as a character, just doesnt work at all in leagues world.
@@LeuvahkTrigger laughs in kled
@@LeuvahkTrigger vex works BECAUSE of how yordles are; she's miserable because yordles don't age and live in perpetual happiness, it's a meaningless and shallow existence in her eyes and therefore makes her depressed because she's also consigned to living eternally without having any real impact on the world, purely because she was unfortunate enough to be born to yordle parents
and while they're all generally happy-go-lucky with the exception of kled and vex, i'd argue that poppy is more stoic and straight-laced than anything, with her lore even saying that she doesn't really get along with other yordles because they're too fluffy and nonsensical, whereas in contrast she likes order and routine and has little tolerance for chaos
she's not the brightest, admittedly, but she takes herself fairly seriously and her quest even more seriously, which ends up being her plot foil and enables her to be a more comedic character without having to be hyperactive or deranged, and allows her to be a small parody of demacia, in the same vein that kled is a parody of noxus, heimerdinger is a parody of piltover, etc.
and honestly? looking at her old quotes, i don't see a mean character, i see a serious and straight-laced one, there's not even a mean quote there, truth be told, and i never really got that vibe playing her back in the day either; i'll admit that her old voice was uh, distinctive, and definitely doesn't have the same light-heartedness as her current voice, but i genuinely believe that she's purely a refined and polished take on her old character
FINALLYY!!!! I've been waiting for this video. As a Swain main.
I mained swain for years until his rework. That rework felt like a personal attack
I actually quite like swain’s new w, it’s a very unique vision and area control tool that fits his master strategist theme extremely well. The rest of the rework is pretty awful though.
I would like the w be like decrepify removing some magic resist on-hit followed by the damage explosion. Like he has seen you he knows your weaknesses.
i haven't played old swain but i'm playing new swain and i use the w as a form of no you cannot go there, skill hiting an retreating enemy, helping other lanes when i'm mid or a form of escape with the first one just retreating in the jungle then forcing them to or be maybe kill me but also heal and slow yourself and take damage or give up the chase
the thing they dont get with the W is the tanky heal you get along with the stacks istg swain’s W is basically nevermove but removed the stun and put it on his E do E pull W combo and get very tanky for just poking im currently D3 because of swain ppl just need to figure out how to use the champion not because of nostalgia
Old Swain was know for a short cooldown toggle Ult
Damage over time abilities
Damage amplifier. Which meant if you didn't E before blowing all your abilities your damage were alot lower.
Good sustain.
New Swain has none of those abilities.
Quick fix is incorporate a damage overtime to one of his abilities as well as a amplifier. Change his burst ult to a short cooldown drain ult.
They made a champion that was fun both mid and Top to move to bot lane.
Sad part is Riot was so close to making him good with his original rework giving him mana sustain on ravenous flock so he could still be a battle mage with decent range. But they not only remove that but made him weaker in damage thus not having enough damage to be a burst mage and not enough sustain for being a battle mage. If they switch the effects of Swain rooting with W (as mentioned by Vars) and made E have a mana refund passive like Karthus than he can be so much more efficient. Until then, This "Noxus General Raid Boss" is stuck being in the bot lane either needing to be baby sit or a mediocre kill support who needs to baby sit the AD Carry
I love how the more you explained Swain's current abilities the more he sounds like a champ for bot lane to me lol
You're spot on, I was a swain main and wasn't really satisfied with his rework, seems like they tinkered with him a lot more than they should've
Thought I'd come back to this after his recent touch up, letting him hold his own in solo lanes again finally.
I've mained Swain for a couple years now. He does have an optimal range: Just beyond the max range of his E. Stepping forward, landing an E burst on as many champions as possible and following up with the shorter range Q is completely natural feeling because the E pulls them into the Q range. Regardless, I only max Q first when I play him as a solo laner. Unless the enemy ADC has the potential to get out of an EW combo like Ezreal or Sivir or the enemy support plays a vanguard I will always max W first. This has worked as high as Gold for me in soloqueue.
Reliably taxing your own laners as well as the mid laner with W for the entire laning phase and - most importantly - stacking crows as efficiently as possible early while keeping the appropriate mid range distance naturally builds you into an area-denial controller/ drain tank OR a bulky burst mage depending on build by the late game because of the passive health gain. Imperial Mandate + Rylai's, or full burn, or what few AP bruiser items are left are all available.
We'll see how the return of ROA shakes him up!
I feel the swain rework feels more like a tactician/general. Aside from lore and a slowing bird turret he didnt have the scope of a general adjusting a battlefield.
If you didn't get hit with old e your minions would block q, as it auto targeted closest.
W semi global presence as a general should. He touches the entire battlefield. It has solid damage and a nasty slow so it is still a great zoning tool like old nevermove.
Q&E discourage enemies from hiding in their minions, as he can easily punish you and the minions together. Something that is more normally true.
I do feel his old ult was better. As you said it meant there is constant zoning pressure in his immediate area.
So you think it was right to destroy a champion and make him next to unplayable in his main roles and shove him into the bot lane as a psuedo hook champ in the name of a theme? If they wanted to run with a tactician general theme they could have done with another faction and slap the new abilities on the new character and preserve old swain. All old swain needs to be viable and strong now a days is his q grounds targets its focusing like a stronger Cassio w. He lost his necromancer feel and is now just a bot lane cheese champ and not the dot drain mage that he used to be. His entire kit was focused around over time damage now it’s been swapped out for burst.
@@Ghosta085 i didn't say anything about it being better or not. Just that his old kit didnt feel like a general/tactician and how the new one fits that theme more.
You bring up dots vs burst, but that is not what I was discussing at all.
Hard disagree. I feel like he's just a generic mage now that doesn't commit to the theme in the slightest outside of aesthetics
Old Swain could max any ability depending on the difficulty of the lane and heavily rewarded spacing/decision making. You could tank waves exceptionally well and use this to set up slow pushes and freezes. His ult/Q gave you unique macro options and you took calculated trades based on your R/Q health and mana regen. His item diversity was huge and the reason the he was a decent sololaner was because you had far more options to deal with hard matchups. Every game was different and had to be approached strategically.
I can respect your opinion, but Old Swain's playstyle was completely strategic. I feel like New Swain is only superficially strategic.
@@draegonspawn5361 that’s not necessarily true. As a tactician his strength was knowing how to engage and knowing how to diminish the enemy’s defenses. He can’t fight melee carries anymore. And you lost the other part of his personality. He was an OLD general. His abilities matched his age. They took time to hit, but they hit hard. You slowly withered away from a withering man, who came to life as he fought. Now he’s insanely 1 dimensional, he’s a warlock tactician….
@@LeBronP every character needs to know when to engage, that isn't special.
And a generals tactics should be larger scale than "can I slap this person around."
I do agree the dots played around age. Like the adage "Age and treachery will defeat youth and vigor."
I would like to see another rework myself, kind of mix the two kits.
Current passive. The longer the game the harder to beat. He gets better with age.
Old Q bird for short range zoning/dps
Current W for mapwide presence, as a general should.
Current E to punish foes for grouping. And rooting for the bird.
Old Ultimate, maybe with mana restore per kill during ult. Base cooldown equal to duration transformed.
Would need a balance pass on numbers but I think it would be sweet.
I have no experience with the old swain but he was the first champ I got a mastry 7 on so I hope the changes weren't too drastic.
Old swain was better.
Completely different. Old swain was basically a mage-draintank. Killed him like they did with my boy aatrox. Nothing wrong with liking the new one but old swain was straight up removed.
@@dubious5859 Personally I feel like Aatrox was at least necessary to an extent in terms of him being broken by design since his niche makes him either bad or OP at times.
Not sure if this was the case with Swain conceptually, and I think he could've at least been fixed while preserving his core identity.
I think it's another case of "new kit isnt bad, it's just that they completely erased the old character and made a new one" kind of rework like aatrox and sion
@@yoyochinb3742 Honestly I think they are usually either Loved (Sion, and Poppy), really Mixed (Urgot and Galio) or Hated (Aatrox).
Even if there is an inbetween, its only on the extreme side it seems.
Damn this makes me so nostalgic for the old Swain. I think aesthetically the new Swain makes more sense with his lore but as someone who enjoys “warlock” type classes in rpgs his DoT gameplay was super fun. You have that to a degree with Brand or Malz but it isn’t the same. Great vid!
It was a champion rework, there was no reason to go that far away from old Swains looks. Current Swains design could have been a different champion if riot liked it that much.
About what you said about ability cohesion, swain's basic abilities actually have great ability cohesion. e->w->pull->q is his main combo and it works really well. The problem is, that sort of playstyle is more fitting of a burst mage, the ult is just there for more damage.
Nah after about silver 2 in a solo lane vs anyone it becomes harder to land your spells an your w or e
I agree that his W particularly feels a bit out of place but other than that I quite enjoy his new kit. His Q and especially his E are satisfying abilities to land and I think the E effectively increases the optimal range of his Q as you can drag the target closer so those two abilities don't feel so at odds as it may seem. The ult is hit or miss. Against high mobility teams it can feel like you don't have an ultimate while against all in comps you feel unstoppable. I almost wish some burst damage was taken out of the ability to maybe have it slow enemies in the radius and maybe decrease resistances or something to make him feel more like a drain tank than a burst mage. Overall I think Swain feels somewhat indistinct because he does a few things quite well but nothing exceptional, which I think is fine. I think this rework falls into the Sion category where old players may not like him but he still has a good kit that is healthier and more interesting.
I do love the vision providing aspect of his W and using it to bait players into Nevermove feels good when it works. I do wish it was easier to use or more rewarding for Swain in a fight though. like faster cast time when used below 700 range or something.
I actually agree a lot with this comment. My opinion may be biased because i didnt play pre-rework Swain, but he FEELS like a general when playing. His gameplay follows his lore and the flavor is incredible. He is like most other battlemages but his unique range (with W and E) is something that i cant find in the rest of the rooster. But he shouldnt have been nerfed/moved to the bot lane, he should have been what he was pre-rework, someone that can work in mid and sometimes top
His w should have a slow on cast, once people buy boots it's really impossible to hit it.
I like this swain. Tbh looking at the gameplay of old swain just makes me feel like he was a very cancerous champ to play against. Now i think he isn’t broken yet not underpowered, and if you learn the champ you can clap people with him.
The problem with his Q and E is that when E is easier to hit the most it does is bring someone in max range/min damage Q, but if you are in max damage range for Q it is almost impossible to hit E. That is true range inconsistency.
His damage is tied to his Q and R but his E mostly helps his W and isn't practically enough to bring someone back into R range
Swain is... different. I barely played any of the old Swain, simply because I didn't have the IP for him (boy, was that a while ago). As someone who's played a good bit of Swain support and carry, it's hard to really say if he's good or bad. I'd have to disagree with Vars on the lack of synergy with his abilities. Swain's E-W-auto-Q combo alongside electrocute does a lot of damage early, and his W becomes practically undodgeable as long as you W right after the E lands, and delay your passive proc. Then you also get a free bit of damage with your auto Q as well. Though I will agree that your W is incredibly hard to land in a vacuum. You need setup with your E or other cc, or you need to be chasing someone through tight jungle paths.
In terms of gameplay, yeah, he's a bit weird. He's definitely best in the bot lane, typically as support, though he is viable as the carry as well, provided you get paired with an aggressive support like Nautilus, Leona, or (my favourite) Pyke. Swain's plan in the laning phase is to get as many E combo picks as possible in order to cripple the enemy laner, preventing them from cs'ing safely and risking an all in. Swain is especially scary during the laning phase because of how easy his E can hit when near a minion wave. The problem with Swain is that he's very weird to play. Anyone can land an E-auto-Q combo when first trying Swain support, but you've gotta be really delicate with your timing for the optimal E-W-auto-Q combo.
Additionally, his playstyle falls awkwardly between arm's-length heavy trades and ultimate-reliant all ins. That's where he feels awkward to play sometimes. I've played a bunch of Swain carry games with my friend's Pyke support, and we need to be careful with our trade patterns. We only look for trades when my abilities are up and when my E or his Q lands. After the trade, we have to hastily back off. This is where Swain feels both strong and weak at the same time. If you can consistently land your combos in lane, you're good as gold. However, the second a champion like Vayne, Samira, or Lucian jumps on top of you, your health bar disappears, because you need R and Zhonya's to keep you alive in a fight, and your Q is on too long of a cooldown early.
If Riot intended to make Swain an aggressive support like Pyke, then they did a fairly decent job, because his trades are strong early, and his ability to pseudo-tank during fights while also having *very* long range utility with his w (the amount of times you can cut off escapes in the jungle and assist the jungler and mid laner in fights is insane. Always max W second.) all make him very viable as an aggressive support.
However, his solo laning is poor, especially into assassins, who literally counter him via his passive. Remember, Swain wants to keep people at arm's length, trading with E combos until he can all in with R. However, his waveclear is poor early until you get Liandry's, and trading with your passive literally helps the assassins close the gap onto you.
TLDR: He fights from a distance without his R, and easily dies when his R isn't up. Because of this strictly medium range hit-and-run playstyle, people can blow him up very easily early game once the gap is closed, similar to Aurelion Sol. He's only a dps champion when he has his ultimate, which forces many players to always go Ultimate Hunter and Liandry's on him, for maximum ultimate cdr. But I don't think he's in too bad of a spot, just that his playstyle is hard to get used to (though not as much as someone like Azir or Asol). He also needs to play very carefully, as he needs his ultimate to stand a chance against champs like assassins and bruisers, which is why he's primarily (if not exclusively) found in the bot lane these days.
I stopped playing in 2012, I was just thinking about going back in. Back in the day Swain was my one of my go to's since I loved the interkit chemistry and my friends rarely let me out of the jungle so Swain gave me that feeling of being a character whose presence in a team fight pushed it in our favor. Seeing how Swain is now, I don't think I'll probably play him again. He doesn't look like he gives the same feeling of control he used to
I used to play swain a lot before the rework and he was so fun, after it… he was cool and his visuals are amazing, but his gameplay felt like, as you said, just a bunch of abilities that just did their own thing. Was really disappointing
swain is also a hybrid tank mage, due to his sustain... one thing u forgot to mention, his healing from his souls doubles when he uses his ult and his healing scales with max hp, thats why sometimes he might feel unkillable... my only suggestion would b to buff his w so the delay decreases when he lvls up that ability, because late game, when everyone has completed their boots, they can just walk past the whole ability before it hits... or they can increase its aod
W only gets more effective late game because the slow gets so much stronger and the range gets so much bigger. Having a swain on the enemy team with max W is basically like fighting against a TF, Panth, Shen, etc. Sure in neutral anyone can just react and walk out of it (they can even do so without full boots if they're fast to react) it's best used in tandem with other pressure such as when an enemy is retreating or trying to dodge a different ability. It's an incredibly useful tool to either secure a retreat or kill someone who's running, or alternatively just take their flash. Decreasing the cast duration would just mess with muscle memory.
@@johnreese5739 lol no it wouldn't and i say that as a main swain... And i would prefer the decerease in time duration over range, if that is proposed.
@@HeliusRa as a swain main i agree with the person you disagree with. Get gud.
I actually really like his kit, and specifically his w, since I throw out my E, if it hits, I W, then pull them in, then Q them for a good amount of burst. Then if they aren't there, I can use the W for scouting or peeling. I really like how versatile the W is.
I just hope they can reduce the cd of W and gave it a bit more DMG at the cost of lowering it range. Would let him do E W combo much more and fits the battlemage team much better
@@therrogue1193 nooooo the range is so fun and cool, I'd hate that change
@@eldritchemissary4718 Agreed, new W not only fits his theme and lore as a tactician/commander but is also *easily* his strongest skill by far, the main reason being the range. That ability alone wins other people's roles turning 1v1's or preventing ganks with the slow before they are in range to engage. This should be happening not only *every* game but *multiple* times every game. If this is a rare occurrence you are not playing Swain correctly and should probably pick up another champ because you are basically wasting a skill or you must up your macro game to track jungle or understand lane matchups better so you can predict whether a fight is going to happen within the next 10 seconds and move in range to W. While his E is kinda clunky at times, it's the Q that seems the most out of place. I just hate when people dog on his W saying it's bad because it really shows their elo.
Swain was the first champion I got a pentakill with. I loved his playstyle and the whole rework just devastated me. I wish rito could have a look at this video and try to bring some cohesion back into his kit. That stuff about effective range is spot on
Swain's thematic and lore has absolutely been improved though and looks great
His Theme is a leader of a cut throat culture where str rules....
And he is now a support...
As an ARAMer, Swain works pretty well because he can search for picks with his w and when the time is right snowball right into the middle of the fight with ult. But the mana issue is insane and 1v1 he really falls flat. With no snowball on the rift, I can easily see how he can be a huge struggle to be useful, esp with the increasing # of dashes in the game.
I also enjoy playing him on ARAM but I do wish they kept the mana regen on his ravenous flock. But maybe it gave too much stats since it healed and also gave him bonus health
I think that his new kit does have synergy. You want the enemy to be close to you to maximize your Q and R damage, and your P, W, and E help you get them closer to you.
Or the inverse q and r push them away into a range where e and w are more effective.
Tbh he's flexible and fun.
while not as much as his old kit, I feel like his new basic abilities have alot of synergy with each other ontop of being good by themselves.
Q can be used solo to clear waves and poke, used with E and passive to secure massive damage
E can be used solo to simply pull for some harass and used alone to simply root wiithout pulling with passive, it can also make it easier to land W since the root duration and W cast time line up nicely
W can be used for quick vision checks and cutting escape routes, as well as providing an additional slow and helping predict movement for E
and all 3 can be combined together for one massive burst of damage With E>W>Pull>Q
Don't get me wrong, I just started to play him and I enjoy him a lot, but he IS onesided. You bide your time, do your combo, gather fragments, collect health, then go full raidboss and win off stats. This is fairly one-sided. He is not easy to play, but really no apparent variation in tactics aside from: do I play tank or burstmage or mix?
Honestly one of better takes I heard in a while
Swain was one of the best reworks in terms of visuals and theme, but so vector-less in terms of gameplay loop...
i LOVED old swain, now i cant bring myself to pick him up.
I played swain exclusively from season 3 till his rework now I just can't, like you said it doesn't even feel like I'm playing the same champion and that's why I decided to shelf him. I really do miss the old crowfather though, he was tremendous fun to play.
I have barely touched new Swain outside of trying to force myself to like him after the rework, and yet he remains my highest mastery champion. I wish I knew how much I played him before the mastery system was introduced. The anti-carry video you put out really hit home for me, as it put a clear grouping to my preferred champions, but this video just hit much deeper. Pretty much explains perfectly why old Swain just clicked with me.
Objectively I can see the visuals and the lore are better, but I will never forgive this imposter for taking away my birdman from me. Rest in peace bud, I still miss you.
i like the old swain better, both on abillities and visual, the changes they made to him simply erased the old one like aatrox, but aatrox still looks like the old one in some way, Swain is a almost completely diferent character
I'd say in concept, I really like Swain's new Q and E. They combo super well together (I used to main Swain). As for his W., I wished Riot gave him like 2 or 3 charges on that ability. The problem I see with his w is that if you use the ability to face check, find an enemy, and then decide to fight, you are now one ability down compared to the enemy. And then, if you keep the ability to fight, you won't have anything to face check since the other abilities' ranges are a little too short.
I only started playing in Season 11 but I really like the idea if the old Swain. I can say with confidence that you can miss something you never had.
It's funny how a year later, they reworked mordekaiser, a champion from the same region, to have the same ability on E, but better since it doesn't stop on minions, and also made swain's ult onto mordekaiser passive
I'm very late to the party yet I wanted to give my 2 cents: I never got to play old Swain, but it looks like a blast. I understand point and click abilities don't offer much in terms of outplay potential, so they had to go. However, his entire kit seems incongruent. I believe his E and his W to be the biggest offenders, E more so than W. Thus, I came up with 2 ways to remedy this, somewhat:
1) Make his E recastable to pull it back at any time, thus allowing you to root characters that are at melee range. Without it, he's so easy to dive because he can't ever peel properly, doesn't have mobility or a "get off me tool" and 2 of his 3 basic abilities have a delay, which assassins and bruisers can easily dodge/ignore.
2) Give his W damage over time and a slow while it's casted over an enemy, till it bursts for higher damage and a bigger slow. If this means reducing the range and damage, or removing the ability to proc his passive from it, so be it. His W is complete garbage in neutral and, although it fits with the tactician theme, it's usually just a combo tool after E'ing a target, which has nothing to do with his previous incarnation.
To anyone who's ever played HotS, he reminds of Alarak. Alarak has a very similar motif to Swain's, both in his own game and exemplified in HotS, albeit being a more of sarcastic douche. In game, he can combo of his abilities or allies', he has decent control thanks to a hefty Silence and the ability to play from a distance. Alarak also has a somewhat clunky kit that relies on game knowledge, micro and team comp. However, despite all of this, Alarak's W, which is a targettable shove, is what allows him to remain very unpredictable. Swain, unfortunately, lacks this unpredictability, which is what kills his playstyle for me.
To add insult to injury, they've now lowered his CDs like that's an issue at the cost of removing the damage on his passive pull; he has a serious identity crisis. I wish I had gotten to play his old self... if only he would at least get his toggeable ult back.
His ult isn’t the problem it’s his Q his Q actually makes no sense for how swain plays he should’ve kept old Q before full rework that ability was actually counterable just like all of his ability’s now except Q his W can be dodged but he has to land E which can also be dodged pretty easily swain takes a lot of skill if the enemy is smart but if there not then swain is an easy champ he’s too enemy dependent on how strong he can be
I wasn't playing before Swain's rework, so I can't speak to how much or little was changed, but what I feel fairly comfortable saying is: I LOVE this Swain. Support, bot lane, mid, or top, I can get pretty consistently good results with him wherever I play him.
One thing I particularly enjoy is how he abuses default habits. When playing against something like a Morg or a Blitzcrank, you want to hide next to your minions, right? But if Swain lands his E on the minions you're standing beside, it's actually EASIER to land the root.
His E > W > Passive combo is immensely satisfying, as are those moments when you can perfectly time a W to snipe a Baron or Drake.
I have never intuitively clicked with a champion's game play to this degree, before or since. Most champions, especially when I'm so new to the game as a whole, there's a steep learning curve for ~30 games while I'm figuring things out, but for Swain, that number was closer to 5. Highly subjective, but it feels like this champion was tailor-made for the why my brain processes LoL.
I mean I play league your either not playing ranked or someone paid you to post this but ok buddy
I loved old Swain and I love the new one. I've played them both, lots of matches. But they play so different from each other that they don't feel like the same champion.
I love the new Swain as a separate champ. I never got to play the old one, but i wish i had. His kit sounds so fun and I think that's the true essence of the character
His old kit was a lot of fun. Old Swain, old Urgot and old Yorik all were similar in that they were very fun to play, but rather unfun to play against.
Old Swains issues:
- Passive is a nonpassive. Swain was really easy to cs with. So basically, if you lower his mana costs and remove his passive, he stays the same.
- w was just a meme ability. People would flame you for getting hit by it.
He however was incredibly strong in lane and teamfights in exchange for rather medium duelist mid and lategame and rather short effective range for a mage. His e+q poke in lane was insane, qualifying him as a lane bully. The general acceptance of his rework however stems from his passive and w being memes more so than abilities.
New Swains main problems are a way too high power budget on his cc and soul fragments incentivizing poke gameplay.
His insane cc makes him better in duo lanes (passive) and basically a hook support (e) with his w being basically a better farscry ward.
He's too squishy with too little damage pre-9/fed to actually do the raidboss thing but you can't increase his damage as long as he got 2 strong hard cc and an insane cc tool in w. I don't even think it's possible to get him out of support unless you heavily rework parts of his kit.
I'm pretty new, so I haven't played old Swain. But I love the new one, love the look and abillities. His passive is a bit weak, I think, but otherwise he's an absolute chad!
Your opinion is irrelevant
I miss the old Swain. Old Swain was so fun to play, specially in URF (I still remember I made an Akali ragequit because I played Swain). Now, there is no Old Swain, and it is not as fun to play as
I personally love Swain as he is today. I think he has great synergy. His E can lead into his Q very naturally especially since if you can get away with nevermove reaching closer you can deal better damage. His W makes up for his lack of mobility by blocking off paths and it can be added with his E. How you use Visions of The Empire is open to how you want. Also he does go relatively close for his ultimate but he can use his abilities to keep people in the optimal range for it to work.
New swain is objectively way worse than the old one. Thank god they are giving him a midscope update but he it will probably not be enough until we get another rework
@@7GamesUnlimited7 s+ on top and mid rn
@@7GamesUnlimited7 i play him in support and i love him so thank god they are nerfing him next update , maybe now he will get banned and played less
His channel is growing so fast, I love it
As someone who has an irrational love of drain tanking, I seriously miss the old Swain. I think he was the champ I got my first penta on, and it was always so nice to have the option of bringing some tankiness in the mid lane when everyone else on the team inevitably picked squishy champs. New Swain is kind of just a joke. New nevermove is absolute garbage as a solo laner because it's so easy to play around, and I personally really miss having damage amp in his kit since it felt like it pulled the kit together where now, as you say, his kit feels completely incohesive.
I was saltier about Shen's rework because he was my ride or die main at the time of it, and it totally removed his safety in lane, but Swain's rework was worse in retrospect. Shen still feels mostly like Shen but Swain feels so different he might as well be called Dave.
I feel you bec because drain tanks are one of my favorite roles and my s6 onward pool had aatrox and swain until their reworks. New swain sustain feels kinda lack luster but I don't feel like qwe support his ult the way old swain's kit did. As a whole I'm not satisfied with riot choices with drain tanks with swain and aatrox being reworked and vlad being forced into more burst damage since tank builds don't work anymore. I pretty much play red kayn top now when I want a drain experience.
Beatrice (Q )ueen Laser Bird has Swain best girl has entered the chat.
I know I’m a bit late, and I never played old Swain, but I think the idea is to make Swain more opportunistic. Throw E out until you land something, then all in with ult and Q spam, with W as a versatility tool that can also be used once you root someone to slow them as well. But that’s just my thoughts.
Swain was one of my favorite champs, and during a period when I wasn't playing was when he got his rework. When I came back, ofc I wanted to try him again, but found him very unintuitive and completely janky. One of the most satisfying things playing him before was getting someone in your full combo and just widdling them down with birds and lazers. Now it's just like all his abilities are just thrown out in hopes of hitting something without much thought behind it. I know he wasn't the most fun to play against before, but it was still very satisfying to play a good mid matchup with him
Just bring back original swain I wanna point my finger at somone and have my bird fire a laser at them over my shoulder
In other words its a morde level rework, just putting all effort into the lore and no effort to the gameplay that's why he is accepted
Used to play old Swain, Lissandra, Malz, Veigar and Annie for the mana conservation. Now all I'm left with is Annie and Malz, and I'm counting the days when they'll be changed too. Swain was my favorite because his abilitiy synergy and simplicity helped me to keep track of the enemy team, and his control helped me to contest an area against the enemy. When people would argue that I was op (cause they didn't even know his abilities) I would give them advice in the middle of the game to even the playing field. Swain really did make me feel like a grand strategist, who was just as aware as the jungler when it came to the state of each match. When it comes to league nowadays, while I understand why they are appealing to skill based players, it feels like it's coming at the cost of strategy focused players.
The thing I like about new is the theme of. A old general, that a first glance can be seen as week if you approach him, but all part of his plan to let you approach to reveal his "true" form
"Death's Hand, Vision of Empire, and the current Nevermove have no synergy with each other."
I kinda disagree with that. Nevermove's root is both just long enough to guarantee landing Vision of Empire (1.5 sec root + 1.5 detonation delay) and enables the passive pull to land more bolts in a closer Q. The synergy's not quite as explicit as things like the targeting control between Decrepify and Torment but the functions and numbers line up in ways that allow utilising them together for greater effect, while still allowing other uses for those abilities like using W for scouting or cutting off escapes or E for peel by choosing not to pull after (though admittedly E is a worse peel tool than old Nevermove, even though old Swain didn't need peel as much as new Swain does).
I love using W to cut people off and have them walk into my E so i can get a shotgun blast and soul fragments. He's kit is just tricky, but it's too much work for no damage. I've found using him mid and scouting jungler to give easy wins. They become so tilted. Just W at the buff they start, onto gromp then wolves etc. free stacks
Honestly I think the synergy between his abilities is better designed than with his old ones, like before it was an inherent function of the ability where they just kind of shoved it in there to make it work but now it's actually exact like the panth example he gave. He has a clear rotation with E-pull-W-Auto-Q-(maybe)auto, but you still have to figure that out without the description of the ability saying "use this like this, we programmed it so you would do this, please do it"
The saddest part is that there isn’t any champion anymore that fills the niche that old Swain did
Sad thing is Swain HAD a touchup. He was modified during their major role updates with other Mages (like Malzaharr) where his Q went from "plant your bird wherever you're standing" to a turret you could throw out. It made Swain really interesting to play because he could approach a fight in different ways, and as mentioned, all his abilities could synergize with each other. Nervermove first let you guarantee your Decrepify/Torment combo. Decrepify first let you nearly guarantee your Nevermove (or an opponent's Flash). Torment first meant you were going balls to the wall for max damage. The Ult was there to keep him alive while he traded blows, and was toggle-able because it wasn't a game-changer like every ult *has* to be now.
And then they turned him into Lucius Malfoy with Sith Lightning. The only thing I find interesting about his new look is the demon arm, as everything else feels... such generic evil overlord that it's laughable.
this is my favorite video that you've made, i loved old swain more and my friends kept saying how the new swain was so much better
This video is pretty divisive. I think the community is split on which one is better.
Fantastic video! I wasn't playing the game when old Swain was a champ so I had no reference to what he was. That being said I do like the new Swain he feels like he is useful at any range and his q is good at farming without being an oppressive poke tool. I would have loved to you go in to what an ideal rework would have been in your opinion, not just say that the new one has lost its way
Without rewatching the video and quoting time stamps, I feel like it was pretty explicit about what they should have done:
* give swain a consistent range (which they could keep the same as before, or change if desired)
* update one-dimensional abilities (he mentioned singed’s E as an example)
* ensure that his abilities retain synergy (he gave pantheon’s design as an example)
I don’t know how much more descriptive he could have been outside of literally doing the redesign himself (is that what you’re asking for?)
He was one of my favorite champions of all time I really loved his playstyle you could play passive but get into the frontline if you needed to... and also he zoned everyone from him and also his damage was so much only with his E already mid game and the nevermove was a great CC that awarded good players on him beacuse it wasn’t that easy to hit but in fights it was easy and did really good damage
But the rework made the damage over time zoning mage to a Lux/Morgana type of mage
I'd argue new swain is actually a perfect zone controller.
His W allows him to do SO much. It can scout to give your team info, it can block off escape routes, it can block off the path for a jungler to gank you, it can pick off an enemy who just ran away. And let's say an enemy is running away; if you place your W in front of them, they now have to chose: do they go through it and take the damage+slow (which may allow swain or one of his allies to catch up), do you go around it (which, again, may allow swain or one of his allies to catch up) or do you flash out of it (or use any other dashes/blinks you máy have, which then disables you from using that for a short while, which means possibly a free gank kill).
Then we have his Q, which does A LOT of damage, due to how spamable it is. Meaning the sheer existence of this ability, zones enemies away from swain. Which then brings me to his E; when you are just out of his Q range, you risk being in his E range.
Being in his E range is extra risky, cuz not only does it allow swain to pull you to him (and thus in Q range), it also makes his W basically a free hit. Which means at lv18, swain just did 250(+50%AP) + 150(+30%AP) + 324(+96%AP) + 240(+70%AP) damage in literally 1 second. Meaning with 400AP, that's nearly 2k damage in 1s, just cuz swain hit 1 E. So getting hit by his E is a big threat.
His Q, W and E all 3 also cover a different ideal range, meaning each range has it's own danger zone.
And then his ult is just an entire danger zone of it's own, rendering melee champs useless against him.
Not to mention he is the "grand general". His thematic should be all about when and how to do what and about tactical plays (meaning sometimes giving up one thing for another), which swain does really well for the most part.
Now does swain stay true to his old version... Not really. When just looking at that aspect, it's a bad rework. Does swain stay true to his identity and theme; for sure.
His different ranges mean the exact opposite, none is that good. Max range E won't pull the enemy close enough to hit with whole Q, and then also also has antisinergy with close range because of it's stupid gimmick of procing on return and good luck hitting W without snare. And lastly his Q deals max damage on the range Swain as a mage doesn't want to be because of tanks tanks lockdown and bruisers killrange, who have very specialised kill ranges in opposition to Swain. Not without reason he isn't played as often as before and not without reason he cannot solo lane as before.
@@rawen160 his playrate dropped, when they reworked his passive from max 5 soul fragments to an infinite stacking system. The issue is nit within his main abilities, but his passive.
I would say that the thing new swain needs is having more sustain from his passive and like stacking more HP with passive so he feels like a threat if he has stacked enough because his passive stacks doesn’t feel threatening at all
It's kind of funny how Riot went "stat check champions are degenerate, we need to remove them", then replaced them with a gimmicky nightmare that is half as fun to verse with even less fun to play.
I don't even really agree with a "stat check", because that is literally half the game. Getting a lead through proper macro like farming is going to get you ahead through items, level up stats, and ability upgrades. If you give old Mundo a large enough lead to be able to run through you, then you clearly did something wrong. The only time it was a problem was when Riot severely fucked up the balance, and that wasn't a problem with Mundo's kit.
imagine thinking the new swain is a gimmicky nightmare or hard to play. Just throw out the 9 second level 1 hook bro, keep throwing it out and you will be doing well at the start of the game.
@@Happyjethappy I never said he was hard and yes by all means he is gimmicky.
@@zoroark522 what's gimmicky? He has a clear fantasy and gameplay that facilitates it.
Is right clicking to auto attack which does enhanced damage to ccd targets the gimmicky part? Is it the scaling? What is the gimmicky nightmare because he is just solid and clear to me
@@Happyjethappy His gameplay revolves around teammates who use CC, which is his gimmick. Gwen has her W invulnerability, Fiddle has his trinket passive, Viego has his thing, Rell has hers, Samira has hers, etc...
Being gimmicky isn't a bad thing, but when they try so hard to make a champion based solely around a gimmick, it creates situations like Aphelios or Yuumi that just serve to make the game more frustrating since nerfing Yuumi's W to be only a few seconds rather than permanent would completely destroy the champion.
If they removed Swain's ally CC pull (which is a large part of his power budget) in favour of more opportunities for himself to apply the pull, he would start to be a better champion. But they won't, and never will, because it's what differentiates him from other champions in the eyes of Riot.
@@zoroark522 disagree that it would make him better but that's fine
I love new Swain's aesthetic, VFX and let's be honest the E-Passive-Q shotgun is a little fun when it yeets the enemy ADC out of existence.
But the problem is that his kit isn't coherent. He has a short range cone attack. He has an absurdly long range W which is rather fitting for a situationally aware tactician as you can cut off escapes, stop chases etc. There is his E which serves only to trigger his passive. And his ultimate which isn't altogether different, trading low sustained damage for high burst on longer cooldown (which fits the current direction League has been heading where everyone gets to 100-0 bush wookie).
New Swain's true strength is his passive. Every single one of his abilities do not synergise with his kit bar his E (which doesn't really do anything BUT trigger his passive). Individually they are powerful abilities, and certainly his new W is thematic, but that does not make a champion.
Couldn’t disagree more, most if not all of his abilities go into each other in fairly straight forward ways while also having their own uses. E let’s you pull people in to take all bolts of a Q while holding them in place for a W nuke while still providing pick potential. W can help follow up on engage from any distance, cut off escapes, and search for vision. His Q is a spamable cone of damage allowing him to keep the damage up while in a team fight. He doesn’t need to have more ways of procing his passive since he can use it to follow up from anyone’s cc.
I though i had come to peace with the fact that i will never play old swain again. Thx for tearing up a old wound.
its a new style of play, when you play to poke first and then go all in. i think that's why he is so fun to play
It's kinda complicated
He is still the teamfight champ that deals AoE damage, but he lost strength in laning because of his passive, which benefits with all cc from any teammate.
And also he is a tactician, and lorewise it is a good rework for giving him the ability to be a supportive champ that helps with champion takedowns (hence his voicelines)
This swain is a supportive tactical type narrative is precisely the reason he's in fucking terrible state today. Lore shouldn't dedicate game play if it hurts game play.
@@ahmedabdalla6541 he is not in a bad state IMO
@@lueroifan12 he is fucking awful outside of cheese strats any competent player should be able to kill him
@@ahmedabdalla6541 not all champs r supposed to be meta
@@lueroifan12 I don't care if swain is meta I just a champ that's actually useful and playable
First time ever seeing old swain, I didn't even know he had a rework - fairly new player! I always disliked how swain plays (currently) and he has never been a pick for me, but this old kit is almost exactly what I'd love in a champion - it's a shame I never got to experience him
This is more or less what I was thinking. I new that he had a rework but I had no idea how he played. I actually really like old swain’s abilities and don’t care for new Swain’s. In my opinion, champion’s reworks should never replace the champion and this is no exception.
I never played old swain. Got into the game around season 9 and tbh his vision of empires is single favorite basic ability in the entirety of league of legends.
The massive range on that ability allows you to exert pressure and tip the scales in skirmishes all over the map.
Your jg takes a risky invade, w can help him turn the fight or peel him with a 4 sec slow, your team is diving you can participate in the dive without even being present.
Honest communicating with your team that you can help from 7500 range is the hardest part of using the ability.
E synergizes just fine with q and w.
E locks people in place for w and allows your passive to pull people close for q.
His ultimate is used to help him build space the outer edge of his ult range is his maxe range for E forcing people to get away from you.
I remember when I mostly play champs like Swain, Urgot, and Gallio pre rework. I never had any problem playing them, Imo They should have just done a Visual Update for them
He use to do actual threatening damage with his ult
also his q used to refund mana, and do not forget about his bad itemisiation since the removal or rod of ages, now he has akward power spikes and mana problems if he wants to figth.
Isn't Swain's old passive is the one that refund mana whenever he last hit something?
@@Xul-Xata his reworked Q ofered mana refund if it delt the killing blow to units, at launch it was a little bit overtuned (as usual) also it went past minions, then they gave it colision and lowered the mana gain, then removed it.
It is so sad to only be able to teamfight if ur ult is up. Previously if u runned roa, liandri rilay u were able to deal massive damage single target with old q and were also an amazing drain tank when you toggled ur ult.
i think reworked swain is a very well made champion. visually there is no doubt but his kit makes a unique comination in between ranged and melee playstyles, he can gather vision with his w from far away and play acording to it. he can long range root an enemy and bring him close to either secure w slow and dmg and also allows q to deal max damage. he can also go all in and if enemies try to escape short range he can bring them back to it with e and passive. there were a lot of old champions with boring kits that were all the same aoe circle dps and point and click effects like fiddle, karthus, renekton, nasus, swain and so on, that were reworked with the intention to make them have unique kits or at least differ them from each other. the only complain swain players have is that they want to play top or mid with him. that can be changed easily just propose riot the right changes and done.
hahahahah "that can be changed easily just propose riot the right changes and done." man what are you on cuz i want some.
swain is a champ that is mained by .5% of the player base in other words rito dont give a fuck about him because he doesn't sell skins.
He's really wrong with Swain's ability synergies. E + Passive gives you opportunity to land Q that isn't that short (for example you are able to land it on Darius and he can't grab you with E). Also if you use W on rooted target you gain additional heal, if you use it behind ranged champion their escape will be very diffcult to do. "Random abilities with no synergies" is wrong opinion. That video was made too poorly
Edit: I can agree with that ultimate burst, Swain should have additional damage over time instead of it
@@indrickboreale7381 agreed I think they nailed his abilitys, and they work very well together
I used to be Anivia/old Swain two trick back in season 3-4 when i was a midlaner. Now as an ADC he is my favourite botlane mage, so i love both old and new Swain
I love watching your videos while taking a bath, cooking,eating