Fiora's Rework - How A Perfect Concept Was Ruined
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- čas přidán 9. 02. 2024
- One of the most transformative yet divisive reworks in League was the one made to Fiora way back in 2015, one of the earliest projects of the Visual Gameplay Update initiative Riot began in late 2014. Today we'll be looking into how despite being a genius remaster in concept, it was ruined by one simple mechanic being added to her kit. I present you with Fiora's Rework: A Retrospective.
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#LoL #Fiora #leagueoflegends - Hry
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riot’s whole concept for her was fencing french lady
La Creatura
@@danielsolyarikov7908 Quaso
and why I played league on her release date.
@@danielsolyarikov7908why are you speaking Italian sir😂
@@felicesenemongabamortoni9576what do you mean? It’s Spanish!
I like how even on the pie chart you showed, Skarner is still forgotten...
Oh he did him dirty lmao
I mean, it’s consistent with how Riot’s treated him up to this point
i couldn't find shaco too
@@trenza2566 who ??
skarner isnt real
Old Lunge was targetted. It was just another button to mash.
I only played her like 2 times and even I remember her lunge being targeted
5.3k damage with 88% being true damage = 4.6k true damage, balanced af
Single target damage where you need to dance around your opponents.
@@augustusmaximus11 no way you just try to justify 4k of true damage ☠️
@augustusmaximus11 no champion with the capability of dealing thousands of true damage will ever be balanced no matter how its dealt
@@decidueyezealot8611only expection is vayne because you can atleast hard CC her and she pops like a ballon fiora jsut says lol no than does the Uno reverse card to you
@@decidueyezealot8611 chogath is pretty easy to play around
im surprised how you didnt go indepth about how potent of a counterpick she is to the majority of top laners. so many of them have predictable cc or 1 ability that needs to be dodged, or are just tanks that cant do anything about fiora in their dreams. people dont just hate fiora because of maxhealth true damage, they hate fiora because most of the people who have to play against her dont have a hope in hell to beat her.
Until you realize fiora doesnt actually counter tanks until 2 items. So by the time she counters them, lane is over
@@alex2005z She hard bullies every tank besides a good Poppy until the first recall cause they can't tank shit with a doran's shield, so if the Fiora is decent enough she wins lane in the first 4 waves through wave manipulation (like most top matchups), then she proceeds to snowball and you're just fucked.
And even if she can't kill tanks, she'll just go even and outscale them anyways, so in sidelane the Tank can never lane cause she'll shred both the towers AND the tank standing under tower.
@samuelcavalcanti3345 if you cant survive 4 waves while being slightly weaker then it's on you for being shit at the game. You can't win the lane in the first 4 waves unless they cooperate.
And if you pick a champion that spikes in the midgame and do nothing with that spike you deserve to lose. You talk as if fiora can simply sit back and scale while the enemy team gets soul.
@@alex2005z If you think you need to kill the enemy laner to win in the first 4 waves this already says you know nothing of top lane lmfao. Do you even knwo what happens in that situation? The advantage you get and the disavantage you put the enemy into? No, that's why you're talking shit.
Shes got 52% winrate emerald+ and at masters+ it's almost 54%, Fiora IS strong as fuck right now.
And yea, Fiora CAN just sit back and scale, cause if she does so then her jungler wont waste time ganking top, so what guarantees HER jungler wont take soul instead? If the enemy top TPs to a fight she'll just take 2-3 plates and get fed anyways? If he keeps TPing then it's a free tower and a fuck ton of gold.
-If the enemy gets soul then her jungler gets voidgrubs and her split push is EVEN STRONGER, what now? People usually get soul around 20-30 minutes, by that time if the enemy gives up voidgrubs you'd be needing 2-3 people just to stop her in side lane, whats your soul doing now when you can't stop Fiora in sidelane and your cant abuse your soul cause your team is always playing 4v3?
"If you pick a champion that spikes in the midgame..." cherrypicking situations to make it seem like you have a point, how classic. Like most champs who spike Midgame arent either skill matchup or Fiora favored lmfao.
Werent you talking about tanks? Midgame is around 2-3 items and you said Fiora beats them on 2 items, so now you cant do anything at midgame anymore? The only tanks that have a good winrate against Fiora are Malphite and Poppy and it's for a reason.
@samuelcavalcanti3345 1: pls enlighten me in this amazing trick you have to win a lane in the first 4 waves while only being a little bit stronger than your opponent.
2: almost all tanks spike in the midgame. I'm not cherry picking. And 3 items isn't midgame. From the moment they get bramble to 2 items they beat fiora. That's a plenty big window to make sometime of.
If the enemy top TPs to a fight and fiora is left to push that's going to be insane amounts of gold for the enemy team, which means fiora's team can't hold 4v4 anymore while the tank hold fiora on sides. And without vision you can't splitpush
One thing to add is that her rework came during the Juggernaut era for League. With her rework being developed along side the Juggernaut patch Riot likely had a skewed perception on things. They knew big tanky beef stick champs were going to be on the rise and so gave her a tool to deal with those champions without really thinking it through.
fiora has the tools to fuck you up on everything. you only have one potent cc ability? she can riposte it. trying to kite her? she has a low cooldown dash that practically resets if it hits anything whatsoever. trying to build resistances? she deals max health true damage so no amount of health or armor will help.
At least she cannot prevent you from uninstalling.
@@Dexuz she parried my uninstall help
If she simply dealt flat true damage instead of %hp true damage she'd likely be a bit more manageable
The main problem is that her ult can deal upwards of 80% of your HP as true damage, and then 1 vital is all it takes to deal your entire health bar as true damage.
If it was flat true damage you'd stack health to counter her (she would still be strong but at least not "deal your whole health bar as true damage" strong)
@@nathanwaterser8218 True damage is calculated based on a percentage of max HP, so it can never deal 80% of your max HP as true damage
@@SluttyFioraSource?
Playing against Fiora is like playing with time bomb, with every second you lose more and more advantages against her, especially if you are tank. And you basically cant do anything against it
On the contrary, she can be zoned off minions and kept from being allowed gold to build her damage with. Not to say that it's easy, just that it's doable. Unlike how it would be if her damage was XP based.
give me one champion that can zone a fiora of cs without having a major level/item lead@@aaronscott7467
Tanks are actually fine against her early. Mundo, Ornn, K'Sante, Tham Kench are good against her. She only starts becoming strong at 2 items.
Tanks when they can't lock in a 0 intetaction champ and win at champ select screen.
@@HSE331 as a tank main who only plays interactive champions, I find that offensive.
THE FRENCH
I will never forget that one Cho'gath game where between my stacks, heartsteel, garogyle's shield (r.i.p), and steraks I had essentially worked my way to almost 20k health. I was the only issue on the enemy team, everyone else was behind but if I tanked properly we could eek out victories in team fights
I fought for it, played well, won my lane, and did everything correctly on my end
Only for the enemy Fiora mid that was inting all game thats was a whole THREE GOD DAMN ITEMS BEHIND ME to begin assassin bursting me and we just lost. An effective 20,000 health with god knows how much armor and MR to only last 2-4 seconds in a team fight
That match broke me, Fiora is the only champion to actually make me dodge games, if I lock in an hp scaling tank and the enemy goes Fiora I just close the game.
In a game where you can't change your character counterpicks that hard should not exist, period.
that sounds traumatizing
Yeah fiora dont care what you pick... squishy tank idc it dies in max 5 vitals.
While i totally understand your frustration it just means your team was bad, you have no job fighting fiora as Cho unless you straight out eat her. Sidenote if enemy had a Vayn wouldn't it have been the same though? By the same deffinition a 20k Tank should not exist in this game :))
@@bonticabogdan9961Vayne true damage is actually way, way slower than a mid-late game Fiora. Silver Bolts doesn't scale with anything and is a three hit passive, where a full build Fiora can literally do 100% max HP true damage in four hits depending on items.
Also the worst counterpick is Sylas into Malphite, which is such a hard counterpick it was the single greatest win rate counterpick in three positions at once.
god everyone hates this champ but they never nerf her or make her weak
I mean they can't really nerf them too much, like irelia and riven the three rely on their ability to fully use all their skills in tandem while individually their skill is pretty ok but combine it can beat anyone if use accomplished correctly
@@tomwithatophat6457 take away w as slow if she doesnt block any attack/skill
nerf done.
@@lucariofi Don't even have to straight up nerf Fiora, just change her W. Remove attack speed slow and the slow, make the stun longer if she actually counters CC, honestly wouldn't care if it were 3 seconds. Just dumb as fuck champ thats anti anyone who needs to auto, and anti anyone has CC. Shes a duelist who doesn't need to outplay her opponent, she just wins so long as the player behind it can play her even remotely decently, and land a W regardless of whether she counters a CC or not.
@@markmikha3633skill issue
I don’t she is kinda mid especially in team fights she is only good in duels and all her abilities are single target
The thing that irks me on Fiora is how potent her W is, irregardless of countering cc. The AS slow makes it such strong tool in almost any ad matchup, and in my opinion removes a lot of the fun risk/reward playing against her. IMO they can honestly buff Fioras CC on W, if they gut the slow and AS
If they buff it she become useless in any match-up where is opponents have no/unreactable cc. Dodge the w it's not like it's targeted
@@baptistecochennec5956 oh, i need to dodge abilities? Wow! Why is everyone complaining about Illaoi E then, if you dodge her e shes useless!
@@AGSTER because illaoi has way less cd, makes you insta lose the trade, go out faster, has a bigger hitbox and if she has 6 even if you dodge it she can r when you engage and kill you? Maybe idk tho
@@baptistecochennec5956 so Fiora W doesnt make you insta lose the trade? What are we talking about? Fiora with trinity force and all the items that give movement speed makes almost impossible to run away from her
@@AGSTER you can like dash away if you have one or cc after that to run... If you are under your tower in the laning phase she can't do a whole lot... Like that's not even comparable. Oh and if you face a fiora in the sidelane with nothing to hide while she has multiple item yea you die same story with Jax, Camille, trynda, yone any duelist
I knew where this was going before clicking on it lmao and you're so right. Idk why they still think %max HP true damage is okay in any sense of the term as 4 hits is basically a guaranteed kill and with how fast she can hit all 4 vitals, she's no longer a duelist
The problem is they keep giving it scaling. True Damage should just about never scale, and when it does scale, it should be very low scaling. That's why Vayne works reasonably well. It's a fixed %, and it takes 3 auto-attacks in a row to proc.
Fiora’s kit is well designed around the idea of a duelist, since her abilities match what you might see in fencing. She also should have true damage in my opinion, as it makes sense for her to gain it when striking openings, or in this case, vitals, but should it be max health true damage? Absolutely not
Should it bypass armor, yes, but it shouldn't bypass all armor. Fiora's character fantasy doesn't need to outright ignore the tank character fantasy. If she had a flat armor pen for those hits, not percent armor, but her passive acts like you have, idk, 60 less armor, it'd feel right, the tank still takes less damage, but sue still is finding their weaknesses, their weaknesses just aren't as little as bare flesh. Otherwise, have it just be flat true damage, then squishies can complain more. I just don't believe max hp% true damage has any place in this game, and that extends to vayne, there's a reason they had to rework jungle items like 5 times because of her.
@@joehudson7007 if you change it she might become even stronger, she is a duelist, so she need to win the sidelane and that include killing tank. So even if you change it she might have bigger true dmg, or physical dmg, etc making her stronger agaisnt squishy or earlier in the game. I understand not liking the idea of Max health true dmg but Camille doesn't have it and she still destroy tank because she has big number by default, same for yone yasuo trynd and their high ad+atk speed+crit, gp, Jax, master yi, etc
@@baptistecochennec5956 depends on the number, but tanks should never take as many hits to kill as a squishy, which percent max hp true damage does, at least squishies tend to have mobility to avoid the crap flora does
I think she'd be just fine if they went with flat true damage rather than percent. It could still scale with AD and would make logical sense. If she gets a stab into your vitals then no amount of armor will protect you but having more health will make it so those vitals drain you of strength much less quickly.
@@52blue72 would make her stronger against anyone that's not a top tank after 3 item
Whenever I get autofilled as top. And I go against a Fiora I start to cry.
I play exclusively top lane, and I still cry when I have to go against fiora... at least urgot can't tower dive me every time his ult is up -_-
If they changed it to % max health physical damage, everyone would benefit, with the slight problem that tanks, the one thing she's the best at shutting down, would feel a whole lot better in that matchup. Maybe the passive does % max health physical, while the ult converts it to flat % max health true damage that only scales with the ult's level? Make it feel like a proper ultimate without turning Fiora into an assassin for tanks
Even making it magic damage could be fine, she would be hard to build against because mixed damage but a lot easier to build against than she is now. There’s items that give both armor and MR, so…
Or make her ult similar to Yasuo in that it gives pen specifically against bonus armor for the duration. That would make the ability effective against tanks but more or less neutral against squishies
I'll take literally anything over %health true damage.
Make her a whole new fucking damage type called French damage or whatever with no items associated with it, and at least I could build health against it. What we have now is the worst possible option.
What if the passive was still % Max Health true damage but the ad scaling was removed? That would make things more manageable, right?
@@dragonboytsubasa It’s a solution but I don’t think it’s the right one, you still have the core design issue that there is literally 0 way to itemize against it.
Never forget old fiora ult, It was perfect
Rage bait?
It was so fun
Just play Juggernaut
If i remember correctly I think Jax's counter strike could dodge her ult?
@@onetwopikachu8122 Teemo blind as well, iirc.
Max health true damage is the worst idea they ever came up with. True damage should not ever have percentages near it. And it very much shouldn't be scaling.
She would need a rework to get rid of the max health true damage. The actual point of it is to create a fixed output. She's a fully melee, single-target, top-lane fighter. She has to be able to kill Ornn in a reasonable time frame, but if she deals enough physical damage to do so, she's one shotting Ashe.
I'm a Fiora man, so trust me---squishies don't want that version, and any loss of damage, considering the above and the lack of guarantees, and she's unplayable.
As a Camille player I never found Fiora lane too egregious. She's fine when your champ can match her dueling, she's just infuriating when used as a counterpick
brother you just listed another horsewoman as the counter to the horsewomen
@@lelandwhitehead56 You can beat Fiora with most Top laners - Darius, Wukong, Jax, Gwen, Aatrox to name few.
People act like Fiora is some insane unkillable monster, but that's only the case if she counterpicked you and you're forced to side lane against her.
you misunderstand the problem with the horsewomen.@@walkelftexasranger
@@lelandwhitehead56 There's no problem with them.
They're solid champions that take skill to play and greatly reward you for playing them well.
@@walkelftexasranger they are champions that have the cope of "skill" but they don't really need that much skill if they are overtuned 90% of the time
I think her passive points being slightly smaller would be interesting. Like having 6/8 points around you but keeping the ult as 4 would keep the identity while making her have more windows of genuine weakness
not sure how much that would change; seems like it would just be rng at that point because fiora can reroll vitals
@Hi-lu5vf you could say the same about the current Fiora, as she can still reroll them until it's accessible(and so can you by leaving range and coming back
@@Hi-lu5vf it makes avoid getting hit in a vital more interactive than just standing against a wall. Fiora has to be more accurate w/o ult
As a old fiora main. I think that her new kit seems way more fun in the freedom it provides with movement and outplay potential with parry
I think that's generally the opinion of the people who play the champions he talks about.
Well duh, who _doesn't_ like having the deck stacked in your favor?
How can having more movement than a fair amount of the cast, and the ability to deny literally anything from the enemy team with their only counterplay is to hope you waste it on a subpar usage so they have a chance of landing their big damage/cc abilities, ever _not_ be fun for the person playing.
Absolutely no one looked at Fiora's design and went "this is bad because it looks unfun to play".
Yeah the kit is incredible just the damage type is completely unfair
Perfect timing, the end of my work shift and the start of vars video
As makkr0 puts on his bible for Ornn Matchups "BAN FIORA BAN FIORA BAN FIORA BAN FIORA BAN FIORA BAN FIORA BAN FIORA BAN FIORA BAN FIORA BAN FIORA BAN FIORA BAN FIORA BAN FIORA"
amen
imo her passive should be %current health instead of %max health. she'll still take out a chunk of your health when youre full but as it scales down the less health you have, you have more of a chance to fight back instead of just exploding. she gets to keep her true damage, but doesnt do 1k true damage when youre at 20% hp
finally somebody talk about fiora big problem, and i think the same, just a change in the true damage turning it into magic or physical damage would fix the entire kit, still is surprising how some people in the comments try to "justify" Fiora saying things like "if you lose is skill issues" i mean like try playing any tank against her and you would see, even ksante have problems dealing with that monster
Naaah K'sante is the only champ in the game broken enough to be able to deal with her. He can W through her riposte, throw her half the map away an one shot her with his billion dashes, unstoppable windows, CC, non-existent cooldowns and damage than scales on MR and Armor. It would be a skill matchup at best.
What a great idea. Im sure everyone will love seeing fiora do 200% max hp dmg. Because if you change it from true dmg to physical/magic dmg, you have to buff the numbers massively. So instead of being a duelist, she is now yone
@@alex2005z ? That not have any sense, and there isn't another thing to do to her passive more than literally changing it, and the % health damage can be tanked by building sheer resistances without alot of health, isn't that hard
@@giovannicampostrini6309 if you make it physical dmg instead of true dmg, then numbers need to be massively increased for it to do significant damage. Which then means she becomes a bad assassin rather than a duelist, since being able to deal with tanks is necessary to be a duelist.
@@alex2005z why a assasin? She would be able to deal with tanks anyway just making it a little more fair taking out the true damage, and still holding my point what other brillant idea of a change can repair fiora outside of changing the true damage?
Let's not forget about the first iteration of conquer when fully stacked you dealt true dmg instead of healing yourself. It was "fun" on Fiora
You dealt true damage AND healed yourself, but I think you overestimate how much that helps Fiora. When half your damage is already true anyways, the extra true damage you got out of conqueror was only half as efficient as if you weren't doing any true damage.
"If the champ gets free stats outside of their passive, it usually means the champion doesn't do enough"
So like 80% of all toplaners? Free armour pen, AD, Attack Speed, Scaling damage with health, % armour and magic resistance, you name it
Legit every champ in that game get free Stat...
@@baptistecochennec5956 Stats through level up yeah. And top Laners get way more of that anyway.
I'm talking about something like Darius e giving armour pen. Which is the point of what Vars was talking about
@@KawaiiAzusa yes pretty much every champ gets free Stat just from their spells I was not talking about lvl up trough Stat
@@baptistecochennec5956 what are you even talking about? In other roles getting free passive stats is an exception, for top Landers it's almost the norm.
Where does Smolder get free stats? Renata? Ahri? Viego?
What Vars is talking about is called a Band Aid, free stats so the champ functions. See Tham Kench HP damage scaling on his ult, Aatrox increased healing and extra AD, Darius Armor pen, K'sante or Ornn (while a passive, it's one of FOUR passives) extra Armor and MR
@@KawaiiAzusa pretty much every adc gets free Stat either atk speed, crit, range, ms, etc. Every bruiser or tank jng have the same thing. Tank support also gets bonus free Stat like leona, alistar. So yeah....
I love how given the opportunity Vars will without a shadow of a doubt say seldom whenever he can
Does he insist that he seldomly says seldom ?
I think that if Fiora's passive dealt Flat td or %hp magic or %hp phisical dmg she would be actually fine
%Magical seems fair, %Physical would make her terrible, since Armor items are way too good.
i think it might be fine staying true damage if it was % bonus hp instead of max
@@houseofmurder Or just make her passive do Flat true damage that scales with AD, this way at least you can tank more if you have health.
I didn't know I needed this video until I watched it. Mind blown!
This reminded me of discussions back in the day when everyone complained how Fiora deals damage while untargetable every 50 sec with her point and click ult but Master Yi getting penta after penta dealing damage while untargetable every 1-3 sec with his point and click Q was and still is perfectly fine .
Balance ladies and gentlemen
13:30 oh my god that was clever, i didn't think of this interaction
Look! Cool clever gameplay! I’m sure Ornn didn’t think about it either and if I was him I wouldn’t even be mad! Cool concept but ruined by true damage case in point.
Learning trading patterns against Fiora has been one of the most frustrating experiences for me in top lane. Intuition says that when a champion uses their only defensive tool without blocking anything, you should be able to punish them, but Fiora is the only exception. The amount of 1v1s I've barely lost because she just throws W at me without blocking anything, but the damage and cripple are so powerful, is too many to count.
Frustrating but you need to learn to dodge it or bait it and using that high cd it's not free
don't get hit by her w maybe?
We need more champions like Fiora who aren't just "Let me uga buga kill you real quick with my wholesome statchecker"
That champ forces you to play better or you lose and that's a good thing.
@@walkelftexasranger no but apparently "learn to dodge fiora w" is a bad advice in this comment section
@@baptistecochennec5956 Don't want to be mean, but majority of LoL community is not even in Emerald.
Idk man, as a top main that doesn't play any of the horsewomen, I like going against them, makes for interesting games.
Riposte was amazing for laning. The about of pressure you could exert by waiting for someone to get some poke in with an auto and slapping that back with riposte was huge. It also did triple effort in certain match ups like nasus and garen when you could block their Q which was a huge amount of dmg
Yup, you hit the nail on the head. That is the single biggest issue that I have with her. It would be far more bearable if it was percent max health physical damage, or even flat true damage, cuz at least it's not nearly as punishing as it is now.
Personally I think making it physical damage would kind of destroy her whole idea of nuking tanks, maybe magic damage so it's harder to itemize against her? Although that would mean the new magic shield item kaenic rookern would be an insane buy against her. Personally idk what I'd make it, I'm just not a fan of max % health true damage lmao
When full build Fiora (300 ad) jumps at you immidietly procing her passive and then uses her ultimate and triggers the passive another 4 times she deals 75% max health true damage. I wish it was physical damage ignoring part of your armor so damage reduction like Exhaust, Alistar R, Warwick W, Plated Steelcaps, Anathemas etc. still reduced the damage
What I hate most is that fiora players INSIST she is a hard champ when most people above gold can win with her easily. Like sure she CAN have a high skill ceiling but her skill floor is so laughably low.
My favorite part of old Fiora was one shotting the enemy team feeling like I had limited resources aside from damage. One fed Graves later and as I'm ulting him he shoots the krugs once and goes from 10-15% hp to 80-85%. As soon as my ult ended I was the one getting one shot since Graves can combo himself as a trap.
I can't forget when I pressed R to get my first ever pentakill, but then my teammate flashed onto the last target to deny it. I was waiting for the perfect moment when all were together to press one button... :(
My buddy named his daughter Fiora Rose to show how much of a Fiora main he is. He still plays League but was so disappointed when Fiora was reworked 😆😆
man i totally forgot about fiora's old splash art. it looked 10x better but the same way they ruined darius splash art. riot really is a failure..
How do you get the foggy effect on replays
Vars when are you making a video on skirmishers?
If they did change her passive I believe they'd change it to be Flat true damage scaling with level and a small%BAd ratio it'd make it so she can still fight tanks slowly picking at their hp weaving around their abilities and you'd be able to build around it to probably prevent 90% of her damage from it being *Almost* entirely Physical
tl:dw: Vars ranting about %max health true damage lol
Yeah, he's definitely a cancerous tank player. He thinks that we should remove this beautiful counter to the disease which is being a tanky champion.
If the ultimate didn't immediately reveal 4 points but it'd level up with time, and also just make it so it shows 4/5 weak points in a short consecutive amount of time, one after other, where you don't always gave a granted 4 stacks procked immediately because they won't always show up on the same side of the enemy.
That would be cool
If they wanna balance her passive, then split it into two part. One part is %HP true dmg that scales only with levels (maybe 3-7%), another part is %HP physical dmg that scales with bonus AD (maybe 2% base and scales by 1% per 30 bonus AD). So now she can have that true dmg without it being opressive, and stacking armor is still useful against her.
That makes her useless. For a passive to do the same damage against a squishy late game it would need to scale 2% per 25 bonus ad. So you make her an assassin, not a duelist
I think when talking about rito getting more creative with champion designs it is important to consider that they stopped releasing a new champ every 2 weeks in 2013 or so
What if, hypothetically, Duelist's Dance was changed to %current true damage, instead of %max true damage? That way, her damage is alot more front loaded, and she'll have a harder time finishing people off, forcing her to build assassin items if she wants to 100-0 someone quickly, but doing so means she doesn't get to build fighter items like Death's Dance.
Let's go now we have a champion that still shred tank, spike earlier and also destroy absolutely everything making her stronger agaisnt other duelist and bruiser. The dmg type is not the problem
@@baptistecochennec5956 Between this comment and the other ones you've left in the section, your opinion is entirely irrelevant. Yes, clearly it would make her stronger by making her do less damage. gigabrain.
@@lelandwhitehead56 yeah you really didn't think this trough right... So now fiora the 51% percent champ do less dmg, guess what she isn't at 51% wr right now so we need to buff her, we'll probably buff her passive or any other part of her kit making her stronger than current fiora against any champ that isn't a 6k hp 300 armor champ. (guess what they are less common than sub 6k sub 300 armor champ making her on average stronger than current fiora)
@@lelandwhitehead56 if you don't believe me the same thing is happening with vayne in high elo she once was an on-hit true dmg champ now her best build in high elo is lethality assasin...
%max hp true damage IS the problem are you okay? its even more cancerous than her W because you can't outplay it@@baptistecochennec5956
If you think about it jax has had both a visual and gameplay update recently so jax is essentially a vgu
Going to be honest, the only thing I remember about old Fiora was hard countering her as Teemo. Mind games with faked autos for the first couple of minutes to bait out Es was fun while it lasted, but then you went back and got a chain shirt or two, and what little she *could* do against you went up in a cloud of funny smelling smoke.
For a time, Fiora was my favorite matchup as urgot, because of how much of a skill check the lane was. But as I started facing more and more Fioras, I just started to feel awful. No matter how ahead I was, no matter how hard I won lane, eventually she'd melt me with %max hp true damage
I missed Fiora's Omni Slash Ult, not sure what season is it but that's the peak Fiora version that i loved and i think the best.
Hey I love your videos, the new flashy transitions kinda hurt my eyes tho
Fiora being strong reduces the popularity of top lane significantly. She's one of those champions that in my opinion should never be strong.
It also isn’t helping her case that her Q is literally an aimbot that prioritizes champions
It wont hit champions if there is a low hp minions nearby. You can use it to dodge a q
I have few moments more glorious than riposting a warded Malphite Ult gank and getting a double.
That is the kind of high that made playing a game like league continue to happen.
Yeah, fiora is really cool as concept and even to play against on the first few levels... But after a while it just becomes irritable sighing.
I actually like playing jax vs fiora. its all about who outsmarts the other around jax e. or build ap and try to kill her faster than she can press q twice (which doesent work a lot of the times)
Im on the fiora side of this, and i have to say theres a secret sauce for this matchup. So as fiora, you run fleet footwork and start boots. You are *never* ever hitting counterstrike on me and i can always riposte your leap strike lol. Movespeed genuinely tilts this matchup in an unreal way. You can cheater recall for a doran blade and be back in fighting shape after 3 waves as well.
That said, i am curious how a boot rush jax would fare 😂. If jax can land counterstrike, the lanes over
Well idk about all that, but fiora with a full ad rune page had 121 ad at lv 1 with repost. Not many people if at all could fight her do to her sheer volume of ad. I remember i had a 2v1 lv 1 and won against udyr and lee
Vayne's true damage scales with attack speed instead of AD, also there are no conditions to proc it, on a ranged champion of all things. Also you forgot to mention that hitting a W pretty much autowon any trade with an AA champ.
Still waiting for that Ryze rework video :D
about Riposte countering CC. I think it's fair when she needs to stand still while casting her W. it's the same kind as Ornn W or Sett W.
i miss the old level 1 q start bush cheese
good times...
I don’t even think the true damage think is the worst considering the cooldown of hee vitals. I think joever with the ult and like ish at pricks with times ( although a lot have been removed) it is really annoying due to “deuling” being a damage boost. I still think hee ult is fair and works well just without the true dmg or the true damage Roth the ult
as an artillery mage player, I have countless times been screwed by her personal damage but more when I can swap lanes with my losing top and bombard fiora so that she has no choice but to 1. all in and risk dying to flash+ignite+all my rotation or 2. back off, be behind, contribute nothing to the team and continue to suffer. I recommend the same
Akali's base stats + lvl up stats are ludicrous, at level 18 she has more MR then Galio, who's theme is anti magic tank, what with being made of petricite
I still miss flora she was the first chamo I got a penta kill with
Almost as bad as I miss old roka
Her concept is sooo cool and unique and it's actually crazy how "easy" she would be to make way less frustrating: just get rid of her true damage and the attackspeed slow on W, lmao
TLDR:
Fuck max % health true damage.
Any champion that has that abomination in the game is automatically a nightmare to play against, specially as a tank or bruiser.
And? Having more tanky and bruiser champions is good? Fuck off, it's good to have a counter for this kind of cancer.
It would be very VERY boring if most of the fights all comes down to who's more tanky. And all I have for that is, fuck off.
old fiora W was a monster at lv 1 and 2. singlehandedly won you lanes
Nah you can't ignore sustain frozen heart etc, plus the fact that the % health true damage champs are all late game and mostly single target, they have weaknesses just high DPS
They plenty of other single target champs the don’t deal %hp true damage and there fine
@infiniteearth6996 you guys act like she has 20% true damage passive at the start of the game 😂. She is extremely skill expressive, and yea she scales pretty hard.
You can contextualize so many champions to sound giga toxic but the reality is it doesnt actually play out that way in most regards. Case in point -> garen and darius. "Oh my god, a base scaling true damage execute????!!!! Its so broken! AND the champion has built in damage reduction AND A SILENCE??? ARE YOU FOR REAL RIOT??" Like yeah these things are strong in a vacuum, but its not really that binary. Fiora is skill expressive; you cant just pick up fiora and play her effectively on a whim.
i think if they replaced the %max health damage with magic, that would be more balanced, bc then fiora would be able to do something vs a tank stacking nothing but armor, but if the tank did itemise against the %max health damage they would be able to keep themselves alive vs it.
If her passive did phys dmg and ignored armor, or just did flat true damage scaling with AD, i think it would be good enough.
One of the things I love about mages is they tend to have at least one hard cc tool, so even if you're a Nautilus and Fiora is about to kill you and use you to heal her entire team, your Malzahar suddenly silences her so she can't cast W, so you ult her on the spot before she gets the 4th proc, and Malz just drops everything her has on her to finish her off.
I kiss the mages feet when they save me from incomprehensible manmade horrors like those.
You're SO RIGHT about % max TDmg, like SO RIGHT
Who cries about that? The only ones who are crying about that are tanks and tanks bruisers. Thank God this thing exist because you can't be serious into thinking that having a lot of tanky champions and items is good for the game and have not counter for it.
Her W being used as a initiation (so that a lot of people can't trade after) says a lot about her design
6:45 Had to doublecheck if he is describing Master Q
The worst thing about Fiora is the nature of soloQ. You can smash and shutdown her early, but if your team is behind, you can play perfectly and the game still will be reaching late stages... Then the 5k+ true damage comes into play and she easily 1v5 anything.
I feel like if they just made her percent max health true damage into percent max health attack damage or even magic damage, it would still be strong but wouldn’t be uncontrollable
Everyone suffering from a skill issue in this comment section.
I actually have an idea to make fiora's true damage acceptable.
You make it fixed. And you make it low. Like, 5% max health.
But every time she procs it, it goes up by 5%, capped at 25.
You also make her passive cooldown on enemies scale down with AD (so she doesn't build tank).
She already doesnt build tank. She needs the highest amount of bonus ad possible to do good dmg
@@alex2005z He means that if they gonna make fixed %hp true damage without any ad scaling everyone will just build tank
%max health true damage works as something very situational and sporadic to use. Vayne's entire kit is based on her %max HP true damage, how frail she is, the need to atk 3 times, the inability to change targets, the fact that this damage does not scale with ad.
But fiora's %maxhp true damage being simply an extra that scales scales with her AD? That was simply insane
I like percent max health true damage. Fuck tanks, fuck building health and defense. FIGHT
I feel like the percent max hp true damage could be justified if:
A. It only applied during her ult (and her passive did %Max HP Physical)
B. You only got the bonus AD Ratio > %Max HP True damage during ult
A. Is a much harder nerf, probably unfairly so, B seems kind of reasonable to me - Fioras will have to pick between deleting the tank or using it on a squishy target for ms/extra burst.
Anathema's Chains schold effect true dmg
i miss fiora so goddamned much.
I love max HP, true damage, % HP, almost unavoidable damage where she can burst down literally any champion while having a spell that just counters anything, even summs.
All of that while having a low CD dash heals on top of heals, auto attack resets, magic damage for good measure, slow and she comes out of the screen to beat the shit out of you. Good design honestly.
Imo, Fiora, Vayne, Gangplank and Camille true damage should be changed to physical, even if it means they'll get buffed
True damage, in concept, is end-all-be-all and, as such, should be incredibly limited and under heavy conditions
If a champion, that wants to rush you down, deals damage you simply cannot build against, you're going to have a terrible experience
You can build against normal true damage tho, it's specifically max health% true damage you can't build against.
people overreacte when they see they took half of dmg true dmg but forget when they get killed by an ap or ad assassin with full pen is doing true dmg to them it just appers red or blue in the dmg chart
Something not covered here:
Fiora was released during the peak of crit item’s power and before the whole item system was reworked to enable AD casters and melee AD carries as a play style.
She had to be balanced around having a 120% AS steroid and access to a dramatically stronger version of Infinity Edge.
Thats why she didn’t have … any real abilities. If she had nice things (cc, a cleanse, the current riposte) in tandem with her AS and season 2 crit items … she would have been completely insane.
This is some pretty old discourse - back in the day “how to make melee ad carries” was a big point of discussion.
We are seeing the %true damage issue arise with smolder, who is a huge balance problem simply because riot doesn't want to fix the actual problem
I remember playing Dr.Mundo with 7K HP get reduce to 500 HP in one and half sec then go back to Full HP (11K HP) in Half a sec then shipfication Fiora back to Demecia.
yk. this game suck when this happened but it's fun when you make it happen. We all equally imba except for every lowly ADC anyway.
I think fiora could have been so much better to play with and against if her passive was just true dmg(not %hp) or armor shred. They could even buff the healing or ratios to compensate but really the problem really is %hp true dmg
Dude that ult was broken, they either had to nerf it or rework her completely
I don't get why they didn't realize this thing. Bias really does cloud our judgment.
I don't know what he's smoking for saying that the Ult was fine.
Instead of %max hp true dmg, i think they can simply give her more armor pen and replace the true dmg with physical dmg.
Honestly just make her ignore a fair percentage of armor with vital procs that scales with either level, ult rank (think Pantheon R), or bonus AD (as the true damage does now) and she'd be much more fair to fight. I don't have any idea how the scalings would work but it's just an idea I'm throwing out there
GOD I miss that ult
I agreed with your balance there IS no good thing about something that bypasses stuff and enemies players dont get aby option to counter , abilities are awesome tho and playstyle too just the percent healf true damage IS just to mutch
I get why they wanted the true damage, to make sure she wouldnt be completely walled by armour, but im so confused why they didnt just make her do max health magic damage. Gnar does the same thing so it still hurts, even if your building armour for all the other damage he does, but later in the game it can be reduced through mr you might build for other members of the team. Making it true damage just leaves her in a spot here she just stops having to care about her gimmick and design and turns into a death ball that can only be stopped through careful coordination with teammates or extreme inting on the fioras part.