Irelia's Rework: When Riot Went TOO Far | League of Legends
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- čas přidán 28. 03. 2022
- Reworks for the most part have been received pretty well in the past. Everyone was excited about how Riot would take outdated, terribly designed champions and update them to fit the more modern standard of the game. Irelia would be the first that would make the community second guess if the new version was really an improvement over the old one. So today's episode of the Rework Retrospective series we're gonna go over Irelia: The Blade Dancer
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#LoL #Irelia #Rework - Hry
This guy is the king of making stupid silver takes.
Damn. *EMOTIONAL DAMAGE*
Cry about it
@@VarsVerum Cognitive failure if your letting irelia dash 10 times in team fight.
@@goof_tv7829 you're*
-iron player
"Balance be damned. Wipe them out!"
Ah yes, even Irelia understands the experience of trying to 1v1 an Irelia with bork
*with vamp scepter
@@EruCoolGuy when you hit full build at 900 gold
@@EruCoolGuy Vamp Scepter even at 7% LS is way too strong for a BotRK component item - no wonder Irelia and so many other champions rush it. It absolutely shits on pretty much every mythic component item...
@@alyssarichardson2544 life steal is so unbelievably valuable in the early game. it guarantess that aslong as you dont die in a trade you can sustain back up and force the enemy out of lane
She's all high and mighty, but when it's someone like Sett that builds BORK too, you'll hear Irelia mains seething in the distance
" I believe for most of you ionians there is peace and perhaps even more after the smoke clears, allthough for one of you , the darkest pits of hell have opened to swallow you whole, so dont keep the devil waiting old friend"- Swain
He was right wanting to destroy the place if for their champions alone
@@lorieslori8051 place stinks to to be fair, endless barrage of literal living natural desasters, basicly no economy and all they do is " intune with the spirits" just shoulda maxe it "cooler Noxus"
Damn, really cool and unexpected reference.
Vars talking about yone be like:
LMFAO
Irelia is a champion that was honestly given TOO much freedom to outplay, she honestly doesn't even feel like a moba champion, more like something you would see in a fighting game. She has everything, so if you master her you're basically unstoppable
That's why I want her in the cast of the first champions on the riot fighting game with Riven they are made for that (and vi too)
I'm a slow brained top laner who plays tanks and juggernauts and irelia scares the crap out of me. I can barely keep track of what she's doing and boom she got half her health back.
To me it feels more like an hack and slash because in those games you just go through enemies, don’t have to worry for combos unless you want style points or, in league case, feel more unpredictable. Those types of games usually look for a sense of power and feeling cool, you can see it in God of War, Devil May Cry and Bayonetta (which are the only ones that I know of).
@@XX-br5bn Vi is not made for project L lmao. She uses fists as her weapon, but her moveset is extremely linear
That being said she’ll probably be in Project L because oMg aRCaNe
Irel side switch mixups in Project L? I’m gonna main her there then
I love Irelia
As a character in the lore. She’s a nightmare in the game
yet ionians get no story at all, irelia and swain are like the big bosses of Noxus and Ionia yet they have yet to have a proper big cinematic, its always about piltover and zaun. hopefully arcane brings ionia and noxus to the big screen because every single champion from there is much more interesting
@@lacrymos saracstic? or are u talking about old ionian champions getting basically zero exposure?
Facts
@@lacrymos I wouldn't say always, I mean sure, when you think of ionia you mostly think of irelia vs swain, but piltover and zaun were barely talked about before arcane. All other regions had something major in it that was worth talking about while pnz was just the modern city.
@@lacrymos Well Irelia is lit on Awaken cinematic tho… wdym?
Happy Birthday Yone Lover :)
Poggers
When Yone X vars fanfics?
Wholesome youtuber moment.
:)
*_"Tosses an empty can at a crippled yone"_*
one does not simply "outplay" Irelia. She will either outplay you or outplay herself.
exactly xD
This is such a fact haha I main old and new and I still miss the old irelia simple gameplay, was so easy to autopilot and play well. New irelia has such a mental stack since you can basically do anything but you're also cursed by all the possible ways you can f up and ruin everything. Legit irelia now unautopilotable if you want to perform well, mostly against her counters like Fiona jax poppy. That being said though, it’s def more satisfying to perform on her well nowadays
@@RainNT personally i dont find poppy to be that bad you can just wait out her zone before dashing althought during teamfights it s almost impossible to deal with poppy
I remember when I was going 12/4 with Lucian, enemy Irelia was 2/8
Kited and positioned behind my Leona to survive, even flashed to dodge her ult when my E was on CD, despite all that, she just dashed one minion, stunned me and my Leona, ate two turret shots and two crits from my autoattacks, and killed me and my Leona because she built Blood thirster and healed out of her Q.
Honestly, sometimes I miss old Irelia. There was somethign really satisfying about intentionally letting your hp go lower than your enemy's then stunning and melting them with hitten style. It was degenerate ye, but also very fun. New Irelia is just obnoxious to deal with, even after they removed several things from her kit.
They removed things from her kit? All I know is she can no longer recast flawless duet while cced. Everything else stayed, it was just nerfed a bit (or I am wrong?)
@@wrex4699 her passive used to inflict a damage bonus against shields
And her ultimate disarmed for almost 3 seconds I think it prevented enemies from auto-attacking during this period
Her w also had a magic damage reduction (removed then readjusted) and this one sent the damage back to the enemies
When it came out full ap her w granting 100% damage reduction
@@XX-br5bn Oh you're right, I forgot about those changes since they were made so long ago. But the change to the E was pretty recent. Also you can still achieve 100% damage reduction on w but only against physical damage
Well u said everythink my dude same i somehow really miss the old ult throw the blades at my enemy
@@wrex4699 ye if u build ap thats kinda stupid tho
I believe they should put more emphasis on actually resetting her abilities instead of giving her so much outplay potential only to make her powerful enough by just autoattacking
Jax/Trundle/Tryndamere and every adc would like to talk to you
thats actually great id love to see her play more like a katerina or something high mobility and ability resets instead of just q 4 minions and auto-attack enemy to death
A simple change to bring back some counterplay would be make her stacks drop off faster while channeling w. That way she can't hold it full duration and still be full stacks after.
@Zom6ieMuffin Yep, even when jax was op he didn't feel as oppressive as irelia. You just had to avoid him or have cc, you can do both against irelia and sometimes she'll still get on you to auto/ability you down.
@@Nikindo ADC main and I can assure you the META has shifted to spell castors now for early control/mid game relevance Jhin, Kai'Sai, Ezreal; if you don't have a gimmick burst combo or solid poke tools that's more than a 60+ dmg auto you're gonna be forced to play from behind in lane and subsequently mid game. There is a reason Seraphine, Veigar and Karthus are top 3 bot laners Diamond+
Irelia went too far? In the right circumstances. Yes. Yes she did.
By tower diving me at my second turret.
That's your own fault for not respecting her lvl 3 power spike and not going to the nexus towers
@@mario5746 nexus towers? Hell. I've retreated at my fountain, and I still died.
@@dravendraven1471 i mean you are not wrong, its called " play safe" its same woth heca right now again, best way to play safe is to be in fountain.
Most cursed match up I have ever faced still don't know what to do atleast I can fight Fiora early game and try to make her useless late game but Irelia laughts in my face!
@@nsreturn1365 Hecarim doesn't have big tits and ass tho.
I remember playing old Mordekaiser when Irelia rework was released (and she had disarm). I dont know who created disarm, but it was the most unfun thing imaginable. When your entire damage is depending on 3 autoattacks and champion disarms you, not only you cant autoattack, but also the buff drops and you were screwed.
I know maybe some people miss her disarm on ult but for autoattack depending champions and adcs it was straight up bs since in many cases, you had no choice but to get it or she hits someone near you and you were disarmed instantly.
Teemo moment
Get Teemo Qed that was certainly the same one who came up with Vex ult reset
that´s how mages feel against silence
Silence exists for mages tho
Disarm as a mechanic wasn't a problem, but putting it on a aoe skill that also slowed was pretty busted.
I remember her reworks release, I was astonished by her voice lines, I thought they were written beautifully and fit her lore and personality, but now I hate it, cause it reminds me of her infinite dashes.
Remember when the current irelia could disarm enemies with her ult ?
Yep
Good times
Can anyone disarm anymore?
@@lightdrgn20 she disarms you by deleting you from the game.
@@lightdrgn20 not the same way as irelia, at least when it's not nearsighted or stun
@@lightdrgn20 Polymorph status technically doesn’t disarm by itself but Lulu’s W, the only source of poly, just happens to also disarm. Ryze’s ult disarms himself/allies during the tp, Quinn’s Q only disarms non champions. So nobody really has it in a more normal sense.
my main qualms with her is her stupid sustain, the amount of healing she does, just because her dash heals her, which does on-hit, making healing/life-stealing items just that much bigger
in terms making her tankier than most tanks/bruisers, while still dealing faq tons of dmg. . .
like dude, Rito could remove her dash heal, and it would make her less busted, but they wont of course
Bladesurge healing is based on lifesteal items tho. the on-hit effects are what make it so powerful. Bladesurge's own healing is almost non-existant XD
@@sekira4516 exactly man
Irelia is not tankier than most tanks/bruisers lol just have ur galio/ali/leona/ahri charm/ lux q and focus her for 1.5 sec and she will die quicker than most juggerants/tanks her first item is literally 0 defenses and her second item may have some hp ,she doesn't build mr/armour until 3rd item while most bruisers go death dance 2nd item
@@MohamedHossam-mn5cg That has been done, and she only needs to land one Q to survive. Sometimes she'd tank your whole kit without Q.
@@MohamedHossam-mn5cg just cc isn’t valid counterplay for a champion btw
In another words: Irelia was an balance nightmare, so they reworked her so she could become another balance nightmare.
"Every time she attacks she heals. This kind of sustain was risky to give to a champion like her."
*looks at current season*
Yeah, I could never have imagined.
Its almost like nothing really changed about that and its still risky to give to a champion like her.
They should just nerf her healing she is not sylas or aatrox, her kit revolves around her dashing in minion waves like yasuo, yasuo doesnt have a built in sustain and he still is frustrating to play against
@@dumbassdude8372 yeah but look at yasuo and yones kit compared to irelia. Yone has a CC on his R and his W gives him a shield. Not to mention his E allows him to safely poke AND his Q also has a knockup. Yasuo has the same thing.. irelia only has 1 CC and it’s definitely hard to hit on bad irelias. not to mention if irelia commits to fight early.. its kind of GG if you lose, you can’t abuse your bork AD to Q away on minions.
I still miss old Irelia tbh. But I recognize why she was unhealthy.
Her E might as well be a guaranteed stun because better players would always hold it until their health got lower.
That meant if you couldn't take a Stun + True Damage front loaded damage from her you had 0 options to play vs her.
She was, to me, the ultimate stat check because her kit was incredibly consistent and extremely hard to out-stat mid game.
It always returns to Yone. Riots "Masterpiece".
But while watching this, I kinda realise that they turned old Irelia from a good stat-checky 1v5 diver into a literal overpowered champion who instantly got nered multiple times, a meme (nerf Irelia) and the only champion who actually counters Yone.
I do pretty well against mid Yone with Diana or Qiyana, but I believe they are also overpowered prob, so eh.
@@anaalvensleben789 diana is probably overtuned, she doesn't have that much in her kit, qiyana on the other hand is an aoe assassin with targeted stuns
@@nechocat1234 Being an aoe assassin with 1 targeted stun reaaaallly doesn't mean much against Yone who has far better sustained damage. On Qiyana, its mostly the ability to dash out of his dashes and ult that matters with the damage to chunk him from range that he can't heal all the way up. Definitely still feels like a skill match up, but he's easier for me than Yasuo because windwall blocks Qi Q for reasons.
On Diana though, its literally unga bunga land a Q and get in his face and nothing he does matters.
Yasuo on lane beats Yone
Ahri is fine against yone too. You can also go Darius mid
I remember getting 2 sec stunned by an Irelia in lane and being melted by her true damage before the stun was over. I was so mad I banned her for a month straight. I really hate new Irelia though, I think she shouldn't be able to stack passive on minions. She can literally just stack passive and jump on you and win the fight with just autos.
What true damage 💀
@@charlesdevine6981 Dude she used to do true damage, didn't you watch the video? He explains that. Hiten Style.
have you try jax
@@tilinh389 I have not, he's not really in my champion pool. I'll give him a shot, though. He's certainly simple enough to learn.
@@BLKCLVR how is it
From a personal stand point as someone who's played irelia because before her rework, I thin her kit was mostly fine. There were things I certainly would have changed like remove the point and click stun to like a version of what it is now, which would dramatically make her have more skill expressions, while not overturning her kit with a almost entirely ground up rework.
The irelia rework and it's consequences have been a disaster to all of mankind.
oh hi ted
When irelia was first reworked, I'm fairly sure there has never been a more one sided match in league history on any specific patch than irelia vs old morde. Considering she did bonus damage to shields, not only did she fully defeat his passive, but if you had your W up as morde her bonus damage would frequently "bleed" into your main health bar. It was like fighting someone lvl1 who just dealt double damage to you for free. I once had a game where I picked a mordemain's morde and he picked irelia. He knew of the interaction. So he just kept towerdiving me since level 1 lmao. This is probably the reason morde will never get a "real time" shield back.
I like how the BGM for this episode is from 3 Houses; A game where irelia's VA is also a zealous monger of war that laments her dead family as a reason to fight. I cannot unhear Lady Rhea whenever I hear irelia screeching.
Man i love it when i open youtube and there sits a new vars vid discussing stuff i might or might not agree with but geniually enjoy listening to. Its always good to hear a few takes from the more experienced
Generally speaking, the old champs all feels slow & steady, and focusing on mechanics of the game, such as CSing and movement & hit (exclude a few champions), the new Irelia is like a prefect sum up of a new era of LOL champions. Super mobile/ hyper damage/ can do it all/ humongous skill gap between top and bottom, and over all fncking stupid. Before when we talking about OP champions its usually one or two things about them, this new era of champions design is so busted that all the champions looks insanely overloaded.
the thing is, irelia is not op. she is unstable
@@herskind1364 either too weak or too strong same with akali
@@herskind1364the reality is that if riot wants to they can make any champion unplayable
the point is to keep them ballanced,
@@somo4227 completely agree.
I'd love to see a gamemode where all old champions would become available as well as their new counterparts
honestly i just think she has way too much power into her passive where she can just miss everything and still out duel people
which is the thing I'd change about her,why she can stack such powerful passive on minions when she also gets to decide when to engage due the nature of her kit,image if conqueror or lethal tempo stacked on minions that you can't control,how broken would it be?
She has too much crutch mechanics. W physical damage reduction (which is like majority of her matchups in top), Q not only makes stacking passive trivial but also heals her so fighting her while your wave is up is a huge disadvantage already and it doesn't help that she builds life steal as well. The only high skill thing about her is her E which I actually find a cool way to do a stun.
is the same problem yasuo and yone have, even if one of the three misses anything they still beat you with their stat check passives
No you don't even have a passive if you miss everything you need to land abilities to get stacks
It’s like, imagine if mordekaiser could stack passive on minions, it would be literally play behind your tower matchup every time
@@kuunib7325 you can’t miss Q on a minion
Irelia feels to oppressive. She can zone you off to easylie from farm without much of counter.
Yea, she just has too much threat. After she gets first component then once wave is there and starts hitting each other, she has threat on you. Even if she f'ed up the engage she can usually walk off 2-3 trades before you can really threaten a kill.
She's pretty much a stat check champ with mobility added. She can miss all her abilities and still run you down when she has core.
Um.. what? Wukong at lvl 1 zones her from lane easily, she's not really that oppressive. Also, only a few top laners are as hard as playing Irelia.
@@phineassss4901 plus her late is trash
I was an irelia main before her rework and i find her new gameplay more satisfying, however that being said I wished they limited her "goodness" i want her to be a master at one thing instead of being an over loaded jack of all trades
What people seem to forget about old Irelia, is that she needed sheen proc to one-shot caster minions with Q. New one just gets one item and can instantly Q 3 caster minions for an insane amount of healing and 3 passive stacks
she doesnt heal that much from her q before late-midgame
The most fun I've had at a melee champ has been pre rework lethality irelia
that was so fun haha
Great video as usual Vars, super looking forward to the next one.
I started League in season 3, but stopped around season 10, but I love Yorick so much that he's the reason I still load up the game from time to time. Yorick IS League to me now. I look forward to seeing your next video being on him.
Also, I saw your set vs Yonni at Collision. You played that really well! Honestly if it wasn't for a couple key mistakes it looked like you could have had it, was incredibly close. Good luck in future endeavors, both in league content and in smash results.
i hope one day riot will give us the option to choose version of the champs like in arcade games when u press shift u got the alternate version of the characters, at least in normal games
6:30 you forgot that old blade surge had to get the kill in order to reset. So there was no spamming blade surge like we see every irelia do today. This was the only way to get your dash reset.
I hate the fact that new Irelia automatically beats most toplaners 1v1 once she gets BotRK, no matter how far behind she got. This item literally deals more damage than the whole champion sometimes. It's frustrating, especially considering how hard beating her in early duels is.
Other duelists can fight her. Fiora can 1v1 irelia really well. She is a duelist, she shouldnt lose to non duelists in 1v1s
@@alex2005z so basically, I must use the cancer to cure the cancer :) this is where the fun begin. I guess anyone 1st pick juggernaunts and tanks can just go and die in a ditch, somewhere
@@alex2005z Fiora, Jax and Camille. Maybe Teemo too. These are all the champs that can beat her after she buys BotRK. 30+ other champs can't do anything other than not fighting her.
@@dominiorrr6510 other champions arent duelists, so they should fight her 3v3, 4v4 or 5v5. She loses power then.
@@alex2005z Irelia's teamfighting is good though. So is Fiora's after DD changes.
I love binge watching your vids. Keep it up!
1:42, If I watched that one? Course I did, you put out great videos so I watch all of them
One of my favorite champions. I just wish I was actually good at playing her.
"Balance be damned, wipe them out"
Is that suposed to be lore or in game?
I only watched the intro and this is really captivating. Like this style, would like to see it every now and then :)
This discussion about her reword u nailed it
I don't even think the new Irelia is a hard fix. The biggest difference between old and new Irelia is that while the former maxed Q last, the later max it first. That means it is much easier for new Irelia to get resets while old Irelia relied on either preping the wave first or she was restricted to sheen procs. All new Irelia needs is level 5 and two long swords. From there simply tap W on the casters get them in her Q's range. In addition, maxing Q last meant that if old Irelia ever missed a reset, the time it takes before she gets it back up is much bigger than it is today. New Irelia can easily get her Q's cooldown to 4 seconds.
Discourage Irelia from maxing Q first, taking power away from it and placing it into her other abilities instead would make her less obnoxious.
Here's how I'd do it.
Passive is unchanged. But it is indirectly weaker because stacking it got harder.
Q - Bladesurge
REMOVED: Bladesurge no longer deal bonus damage to minions.
Cooldown: changed from 11/10/9/8/7 seconds to 9 seconds at all ranks.
Mana: cost increased from 20 at all ranks to 20/25/30/35/40.
W - Defiant Dance
Damage reduction now scales with ability level instead of champion level.
Minimum damage: increased from 10/25/40/55/70 to 10/30/50/70/90.
E - Flawless Duet
Damage: increased from 80/125/170/215/260 to 80/130/180/230/280
Stun duration: Increased from 0.75 at all ranks to 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 seconds.
R - Vanguard's Edge
REMOVED: Bladesurge's cooldown is reduced by 0.5/1.5/2.5 seconds.
Barrage damage: Increased from 125/250/375 to 150/300/450.
Perimeter damage: Increased from 125/250/375 to 150/300/450.
Slow duration: Increased from 1.5 to 2 seconds.
this is pretty insightful the main thing people don't like about facing Irelia is her Q bc of ALL the things it does. It stacks passive, it gives mobility, AND it heals her. Sure, she needs to prepare and land her skill shots, but at a certain point like against minions its just too easy to dash around, and then stack or heal up. While imo these changes go a bit too far and its healthier to apply these changes in groups rather than all at once, its a good way to address the issue, without a direct harsh nerf. Especially considering removing the Q CDR on the R (tho thats a change i'd save for last) and the minion bonus on Q bc imo thats dumb as its only making it easier for her, when she should be encouraged to use it on champs.
Sadly its unlikely we ever get the changes to nerf her Q bc riots balancing for broad winrrate and there are still a lot of bad Irelias, and her style of design is a fav.
But she won't sell as many skins if she was not slightly on the strong side
Having a 2 second stun on a champion that relies on auto attacks is a bad idea... But I do like the changes on her Q
Her entire power budget is her Q and passive. Even with some power shifted to her other abilities she will end up feeling clunky because they all have very high CD. Maxing Q last will never be as good as old Irelia because the ad scaling and base damage is just awful compared to then, especially with no minion damage, since y'know 5 base damage is abysmal.
@@natesaintjacques1074 She can always incorporate sheen itens back into her kit with will help her get resets, just restricted to sheen's cooldown.
For all others, the objective is for the changes to be net neutral. Taking what makes her frustrating but giving her compensation power.
She was my main pre rework. The rework felt so bad, when i saw anyone play the bs she has become i would jusy get insta tilted. Quit lol for 2 years because of it
You are an honorable man
Old Irelia was more fun to play imo, she had a unique playstyle. Now she feels more like an assasin and I get bored way faster playing her.
I feel you
@@xXbenjman3000Xx right now all champs are assassins except tanks
@@fitmotheyap Sion sweats nervously
I like like your distinction between overloaded and overtuned.
This video puts a smile on my face.
Tbh, patch 11.5 didn't help Irelias case. I can see what they tried to achieve. They tried to make her easier to play while also giving her lower highs and higher lows, an attempt to flatten the curve of what masters on the champ can do compared to noobs. HOWEVER, that didn't really work if we are honest. What it actually did was make her margine for error a lot lower and the amount of strength she lost can not make up for it. In other words, that patch made her even more consistent but didn't come at enough of a cost for strength.
If any here are unaware, in patch 11.5 she got:
-the amount of passive stacks reduced from 5 to 4
-higher damage and damage reduction on W
-reduced Q cooldown based on R rank (calculated before ability haste)
And the compensations were slightly lower passive damage, slightly slower Q speed and a few lower base stats. They also nerfed the Q healing and , the W damage and again the passive scaling in later patches, but those didn't even matter to her overall perfomance. The biggest and most notable effect that the 11.5 changes had was that she needed to land LESS spells to beat you down than before. She only needs 4 stacks to get her fully charged passive AND her Q has a lower cooldown based on your R rank, meaning even if she doesn't reset it, with 3 items and a rank 3 R her Q only has a 3 - 2 second cooldown. Outplaying Irelia became even harder. Not only is she a very flexible and fast champion, now even fucking up her spells doesn't punish her too much.
And all that combined with the fact that she is a fighter, therefore buying the fighter items, which are notorious for overperforming quite easily. And unlike some other fighters, who are very dependant on one specific items, she is adaptable in what she buys. She can pick and choose whatever is the strongest at the moment.
They should seriously revert some of these things. Irelia SHOULD be a sitting duck if she doesn't manage to reset her Q, not be able to go into W for 2 seconds and then Q again. Being able to carry a fight if played well is one thing, but also being able to do so if you whiff your spells or the enemy outplays you is just wrong. Her flexibility needs to be toned the fck down.
She started the rework with 4 stacks. While also getting the free W stack. 5 stacks make her useless without a teamfight or minions. They should've used the change of 4 to 5 stacks while reducing how much impact the full stacks gave.
@@amandaslough125 Ye but that was back when her passive gave the on-hit damage with each stack and the attack speed boost with max stacks. When they changed it to its current form of attack speed per stack and on-hit at max stacks they increased it to 5 stacks *specificly* so she can't just E + Q + W + Q to gain max stacks on a single target. She would either need to set up over minions or use her R.
And that also only accounts for 1 v 1's since her spells generate multiple stacks if multiple champions are hit. The 5 stacks were supposed to limit her all-in burst on lane, which they now gave her back without any compensation.
If a champ who needs to gather stacks for an effect can do so in 1 second or less, the stacking effect is either pointless or badly executed.
She wasn't the only duelist getting stronger the more opponents facing her, Wukong passive used to give armor MR buff with more enemies around
Wukong isn't duelist.
1:23 - 1:30
LOL 😂
Old League I love it ❤️
It’s funny to watch people fight in massive minions waves from old videos.
Wait you put fe3h music and since it's the same voice as Rhea, I imagine her saying that. That fit so well !
I’m somewhat new, been playing for a year, but the most interesting Champs to me are the ones who fill a completely unique niche, I think they force you to approach things differently. So while it may be from a lack of experience with it, the niche of “objectively stronger in 1v5 than 1v1” seems interesting as all hell and I wish it existed.
I'd say Illaoi could fill that niche thanks to healing more + harder to dodge her tentacles in a chaotic fight etc etc....
@@nhanmaiden8078 True, Viego too in a way
When playing against Irelia, I do believe she is strong, but her biggest weakness is her lack of disengage. Unless she dives past your minion wave, she doesn't typically have a way out of a fight, so baiting her into making a bad engage is my goal the whole time. Granted, the problem with this is that it relies on them making a mistake, which they could just not do, but I've found Irelias to be super overconfident in the mid ELOs, so you can pretty much guarantee that they will get thirsty and make a bad dive if you give them enough chances to do so.
You mean if she doesnt dash past your minion wave, she has a way out of a fight? Anwyays, she is a duelist. In lane she isnt suposed to lose to non duelists. Its in teamfights that she should be weak, but she has to many q resets for that
"Balance be damned"
She really meant it
thank you for making this
I would love to get all the sustain out of her kit, that way she becomes weak to poke. Since all lifesteal is getting nerfed that can help to balance her, I dont care how much damage she does, she just needs a way to be kicked out of lane because in her current state, a Vampiric Scepter + a wave heals her to full from half HP, this way she gets locked into toplane where she can scale into matchups she does good at, also I would love for her dash to be reactable, that way she gains another weakness, to disruptors like Gragas or Vex that ruins her resets. If you think about it that can help her in order to recieve buffs that doesnt make her a balance nightmare since she now has glaring and defined weaknesess, things that current Irelia doesnt have.
I once fought a very bad Irelia as Aatrox. She missed Q, missed E, used W wrong, went 0 - 3 in lane. She dead ass beated me when I had 2 iteam and she had only BoTRK :) fun champ
Her sustain isn’t even that much. It’s literally just lifesteal items being broken.
I'm very pleased with the lifesteal nerfs which will also indirectly nerf Irelia, Yasuo & Yone, it's about damn time :)
@@Mattsawesomeness yasuo sucks. Agree with the others
@@taitrinh8650 exact same thign o/3 irelia was an item behind got botrk missed all her abilties and killed me
Also one thing that adds to her ridiculous consistency: the farming. It's almost IMPOSSIBLE to have bad CS numbers even if you're just mediocre with her. I can't count the times I've beaten her in lane, kill her two or three times, then maybe go for a herald or help my jungler. You leave her alone in lane for a couple minutes and she's now either equal or ahead of you in farm. Shit's ridiculous, that alone makes her a comeback machine through sheer gold generation.
What a coincidence that she's on free rotation right as your video comes out!
That intro sums her up so well, I wonder if it was intended for her to be op to match that speech or the other way around.
I love how Gwen basically is a balanced version of the old irelia with the old irelia ult.
irelia is so hard that when she misses every ability she still gets to kill you with nothing but autos!
Jax says hi.
@@lissandrafreljord7913 Jax has what, an attack speed focused passive( stacking 8 times for up to 28-88% attack speed, lvl 1-18. For frame of refrence, Irellia has 30-80% attack speed, gets it in 4 stacks, and her abilties stack it too, and the stacks last for a little over twice as long), a unit targeted dash, an auto enhancer, the ability to dodge autos for a few seconds, and a 3 hit passive + stats on R.
What is Jax supposed to do with that kind of kit? Everything either enhances his autos or makes it possible for him to auto more.
Jax has next to nothing to do ability wise as half his kit is just making him attack faster or harder, but Irelia has a dash, 2 ways of resetting said dash, hard cc, soft cc, anti-burst tool, and can win using only her passive.
To put it simply, Jax is a stat check champ who has very little going on. If your numbers are bigger than his, you will win.
Irellia is a mechanics focused outplay champion who can screw everything up and just stat check her opponent down anyway because she literally has Jax's base and r passive in hers(in addition to the q reset thing) at slightly less effectiveness(2% more attack speed lvl 1, 8% less lvl 18, and the on hit damage is stronger than Jax's at all levels unless he uses his ult). But if we add abilities into this it changes things, because Irellia, as a outplay focused champ, has ways of outplaying you and taking a win from a fight that she loses stat check wise.
Stat checkers are annoying to start with, but add in massive outplay potential they don't need to use in order to win a fight? People aren't going to like that more than the pure stat checkers.
I loved old poppy how much fun it was, there's even a goodbye video for her
I love the fact he put the disclaimer for the 2 second clip of riven knowing full well what riven mains will do to him.
I think her rework was an outstanding rework. She needed a LOT of tuning and she definitely wasn't "balanced" or "fair" at many points, but conceptually the rework was a success and what keeps her from being in the perfect spot is just fine tuning of numbers.
I've always said that hard champions should be more rewarding than easy champions; why the fuck would anyone bother learning Riven when Garen is overall stronger if both champs are played at 95% potential?
The problem with hard champions is that, even tho they have so many moving parts to theyr kit it would be normal to assume that one small change wont alter theyr performance that much, often one "small" buff becomes a large power increase and a steep decrease of theyr normally very high skill floors.
I mean, we've seen it plenty of times: Riven's E CD lowered by 1 second and one item she buys made cheaper by 100 gold? Riven is broken! Akali E doing 10% more AP damage and one of her keystones is buffed? Akali is the terror on the rift.
With Riot releasing so many champs and reworking so many champs it's entirely safe to assume that some champs should be made to be really strong in low elo and some should be made to be very strong in high elo.
It's only fair that Riven Irelia and Akali do more in high elo than Darius, Yorick and Tryndamere, and yet Riot doesn't want to admit this and balance with this philosophy.
THANK YOU!
Skill expression SHOULD be rewarded, exactly.
The only thing I miss from the old Irelia is the speed on Bladesurge. The new one just doesn't have that "oompf" to it.
The only removed thing from the new one that I miss is the ability to use the 2nd part of E hard CCed (anything but roots) just because this game does not have diminishing returns for CC and there's oh so many of those abilities now and the change from 0-0.4s execution to 0.25s execution on the E once both blades have been cast, because that lowered the skill ceiling by a lot.
thing is that when u think of a hard champion to play i think azir,zoe,riven
these guys can lose the game just beacuse they did a small mistake but in return they can be a monster to play against them
irelia is a monster even in the hands of a gold 3 player
@@somo4227 She is very strong in lane, to the point you can be rough on your mechanics and still win in most scenarios, but for when you cant or for anything after lane Irelia is quite hard.
@@theduelist92 after you win lane you have a gold lead so as long as you don't get greedy you will always be able to do something
a strong early game in the modern "ff 15 go next" culture just means a strong champion
@@somo4227 That's a good point, and yet if one in your team is losing just as hard as you are winning and the game grags out shit gets complicated.
I like both irelias. I prefer this new one a little more because I feel like there is more pressure to aim and time things correctly than to just press W and E and be set to fight.
0:07 never knew irellia was self aware
I appreciate the Fire Emblem music for Lady Rhea- I mean Irelia's video
I very prefer current one however my only gripe is her role being assassin, skirmisher, bruiser, etc. I do agree she is difficult to play but it makes laning into good Irelia's miserable teamfighting as well. There are tricks you can implement such as short trades when her passive is low, striking first instead of counterattacking, etc but she feels like fighting a champ with no weaknesses in the right hands. I was also never a fan of the cdr reduction her ult passively grants on Q removing skill from her kit is the last thing to do I feel like I would try and desginate her to a role being a fighter with ramping damage or an assassin but not both. Granted I dont play Irelia so my opinion doesn't hold much water.
Riot balancing team after this video:
*“Thus, it is crystal clear that our main priority is giving Lux more skins. Have a good day!”*
"No, be careful with your balancing ideas. See we just had to nerf Aurelion to heal enemies with his orbs instead so in conclusion Ezreal needs another 'Ultimate E-Boy' skin." - Riot 2022 probably
2:50 "pick a god and pray" I love how even when you arent directly making a nintendo comparison you make little references like that lol
honestly still surprised no one mentioned the sykkuno reference
Oh boy where do we even start, even at her current version shes overloaded. Atk speed and magic damage on passive and even if it needs stacks its trivialized by Q. She basically has 2 conquerors at all times and neither one you can really build defensive items against because shes still AD. Damage reduction W that can't be cancelled. Oh and her ult is skill shot that expands into a giant AoE thats basically a death sentence to any poor squishy champ that got caught by the 90% 1.5 second slow.
I just think the problem is the reset for her q in her e and r. If not, she is fine. A true duelist that only gap closes well in lane.
I hate Irelia's rework. Old one was much more fun even if reworked is stronger.
She does not feel like the same champion even if her abilities looks so close.
I also strongly disagree that she had no weaknesses.
Looks like nobody even remember because it is not shown is patch notes,
but Irelia was nerfed at times just not directly but though her items.
Atack speed was no luxure but necessity on her.
Her build was almost always trinity first and when trinity was bad Irelia was bad.
Exept for that one season when her build was Spark (atack speed item) and wit's end.
She was like assasin that needed two rotation of all spells to kill you,
so many champions with good sustain could never be killed by her.
(ofc when two same skill level were playing)
I was maining her for few season and drop almost completly after rework.
Her new Q is awful, it feels slow and weird.
I feel her problem were those tanks and sustain champions that she could not kill one vs one.
Rework didn't not solve that issue so she is now played primarly on mid where champions have less hp.
RIP Irelia
Pov: old irelia fans says some dumb shit about new irelia and acts like she is weak. NO irelia is not weak and if you think the q is clunky you fucking sucks. Keep crying over your boring old champs.
Happy Birthday 🎁🎊🎂‼️
Very well made video 10 outa 10 very pogu
I had much more fun with the old Irelia, so much infact, I didnt play the new one ever again after trying her out a bit
Same but with old Aatrox
you didnt enjoy new irelia because her skill cap was much higher and u inted with her when u realized she took more skill than old ireliA
@@maxwu4145 i mean i knew that, and i was rdy to put the time in, ive played harder stuff than that and stuck with it, but it didnt feel right
I've seen Irelia mains get camped, be 0/10 and have 1 item, 3 levels down and then 1v2 the enemy top and jungle who were both fed, at 2 items and both had atleast 1 or 2 levels up on her. And she wins, not even under her tower. She is too overloaded, just like Akali, and a bunch of newer champs, but because she is "hard" she is left ungodly op if someone knows how to master her. A great Irelia player can do almost anything
I dont think riot left them to be op but its their kit that makes them stupid to play against. Irelia can dash over your entire minion wave while healing, Akali cant be targeted while in her smoke it should just be One use for those ability. Irelia can just retain her mobility but nor her healing. Akali's invisibility should be remove if you get cc'd under shroud. Zeri too should just retain her mobility but you need to put a drawback
Im very surprised you didnt talk about the suggested ultimate's for her rework. Considering a scraped idea was yones Ult.
irelia has the same voice actor as rhea wow that so cool with the fire emblem music!!
They could've released a new champ instead of reworking Irelia. She feels so different to play and honestly I hate her rework. The same thing with Mordekaiser. Sometimes I wish there was a League legacy version, where the game is balanced around Season 3 to 6.
The decision to rework Irelia really bugged me.
She was in a perfectly fine place as an 'easy to learn, hard to master' character who had a lot of upsides but equally big flaws, sure her character model was getting pretty janky but in terms of her kit she was perfectly fine. Yet Riot decided to rework her and turned into a nightmarish mess of legendary proportions while things like Skarner still exist unchanged to this day.
Things like Yi, Annie, Teemo, Udyr, Skarner exist :)) seriously, they have a lot of champion design team. Spread out the rework/vgu/vsu, slow down the champion release. They are plague the game with cancer ass champion
@@taitrinh8650 YES! i agree!
Release 3-5 full on vgu's a year ( don't over tune em like Akali and Irelia tho ) and for each role/class/lane that gets a champion reworked, Riot doesn't need to release a new champ for said lane.
Yesss, I love her gameplay, Im really looking forward to you talking about her!
Hey Vars, just out of curiosity, would you count kayle as a statchecker? Because of the unique way she scales.
I can barely recall how I feel about Irelia. I've been insta-banning her for years. All I know is to never let Irelia go unbanned.
Conceptually, I think Irelia is one of the most well-designed champions in all of League. I don't think anyone fits their theme better than her. There are definitely flaws in the execution of her current design, but I think that more so comes from the overall state of League than it does from Irelia herself- at least, the majority of those flaws. I think she'd be a lot less of a problem if there was a meaningful way of reducing the effectiveness of/deterring the use of mobility abilities, but what little there is is too situational to be truly effective.
The concept of Irelia is so strong, that I was able to turn it into a homebrew D&D class, which I think should attest to the quality of the idea of her current kit, but there are definitely problems with her in-game state. I don't think those are problems with the idea of her, though- I think the circumstances around her existence just affect her unfortunately.
I personally just think she has to many resets for her q. If her e and ult didnt reset her q, she wouldnt be able to be a teamfight monster. Her ult would be a different versions of camiles r, with the purpose of keeping the enemy there.
I think she should have a move that she actually dances other than her control 3
I liked old Irelia more. She was a titan to deal with, but beating her down was so damn good. Conversely, playing was her had that thrill, specially when the jungler and the toplaner decided to come in try to bring you down. Old Irelia taught you how to gauge your fights because you need to have a good read on the enemy if they matched your skill level.
Cant wait for that jucy"should you main aurelion sol"
I never feel outplayed by Irelia, if she's ever slightly ahead with just a Vamp scepter or a sheen she can just q four times and Auto u to death even if you dodge Ulti and Stun.
I genuinely believe if this champion was removed league would be better
Imo they either flat out take certain champs to the back and gun them down like the rats they are. Or nerf their numbers. Melee ADC's like Trynd, Yone and Yasuo shouldn't be doing this much damage.
There should legitimately be a game type where only simple champs are playable. Nothing serious, but like one of the rotating game modes like URF or something where we can enjoy a game of league without an Irelia 200 yearsing us to death.
@@satisfiedskullservant it would just be all mages and ranged champs and any melee champ would get gunned down
I've been playing League since maybe season 3 (I skipped a few years prior to now) but I've never played Irelia once, so I never even knew her old kit. Imagine playing League for so long and yet essentially being aware only of her current kit.
The old map and effects are so nostalgic.
2 Nerfs:
- She can't stack passive on minions (reduce her bs laning phase)
- All enemy champions lose the Q dash reset mark after Irelia dashes to the first enemy marked (reduce her tf and skirmisj aoe 2000dahshes potential)
I think riot should just remove her passive stack on minions and remove the on hit effect. They can also buff her q damage to compensate so that irelia wont be an auto win lane champ
Ayo Vars what's the intro clip from? is it from riot ?
Random video idea: minigames stuff like dancing with gp barrels and playing around orbs as a kayn or chasing marks as kindred and their impact on those champions, with kayn it’s a core part of identity and gps only skill expression kindreds way for scaling etc
I'm gonna disagree on a single crucial point. Irelia isn't hard to play. She is stupid easy and that is the biggest problem to balance her.
All the thing that are supposed to balance her because they are supposed hard to do aren't hard at all. Flawless duet? That thing is VERY easy to land, it's almost point and click stun, if irelia is using a keyboard and has two brain cell you can't dodge that stun without flash or some other dash/blink, and its aoe on top of that. Saying flawless duet is hard to land is almost like saying malp ultimate is hard to land
His passive is supposed to be hard to sustain, that's why it give that ridiculous amount of stats. But you can trivially stack it almost instantly.
Defiant dance doesn't have any restriction, can't be interrupted, and can be stooped at will.
All of irelias kit is supposed to be hard to execute, but it isn't. If the irelia player is remotely competent, then she becomes a stat checker with insane movility resets, damage sustain and everything you could think of.
did you even play irelia?
The only thing I can think to balance her completely is to remove the full Q refresh on kill and give a 60% refund instead
Increasing Q mana by 5 can help too
Removing or reducing Q healing too
Reducing Q on hit effects too
F**k Irelia
How to completely kill a champion that isn’t even that good right now
@@walf6470 at this way she can be buffed without major problems
Bcz will not be this overtuned
(Yes I agree with Vars)
@@miguelarrieiro her entire kit is based around Q resets.
What they need to do is make it so followup Qs do less damage on the same target and her Q has less damage overall. She should be a fighter, but the amount of burst she gets from Q makes her an assassin. This is why she’s the ONLY bruiser played mid. She needs a power shift out of burst damage
After these nerfs she can be buffed in her consistent damage. Right now she has everything which makes her opressive
@@walf6470 they could just remove the q resets on her e and r. She shouldnt be able to destroy teamfights
@@alex2005z that still kills the champion thematic lmao.
As hard as it is to believe the issue IS NOT her sustain or fighting. It’s her burst. That’s her only problem. If her damage was more backloaded like bruisers are meant to it would be much more fair to fight against.
didnt play old irelia but from what i see new one appeals to me more
Importantly about Irelia'@s old q is that it didn't reset mana costs.
You could spam it on a wave yes, but then you would be half mana
It did refund mana, but only about 1/3 or so
@@galactick3816 Exactly, it refunded some but it didn't reset the mana cost to 0.
@@jllemin4 I honestly liked old Irelia more because outside of 1v1 there was a skill expression (unless you were snowballed so much) especially having to be careful about using her W because it was quite noticeable and it was responsible for a lot of her DMG. I think that just changing her ult would have been fine (I mean, they pretty much gave her old ult to Gwen but now it just ramps up the DMG) - something like self-buff that gives her extra flying blades that attack nearby enemies
To be fair, the problem is not with Irelia itself. She is hardly more busted than how she was before. The item overhaul made her this broken.
I feel like it’s that and the mini rework
Irelia has the quote i heard the most in League: "Tyranny!"
The most annyoing thing is that she can rush you down level one and you almost can not flee because her auto attack range is really high for a melee champion, she also can engage whenever she wants and you can't catch her when mionions are nearby
ULTIMATE GIGA CHAD OLD SYKUNNO CLIP SPOTTED