This NEW SERVE could change Badminton FOREVER
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- čas přidán 3. 04. 2023
- No, this video is NOT about the well known spin serve, that is already used by many top players but about a new variation, first shown by danish doubles player Marcus Rindshoj at the Polish Open 2023 and I think it has the potential to change our whole game of badminton!
References:
Jun Liang Andy Kwek / Loh Kean Hean (SIN) - Rasmus Espersen / Marcus Rindshøj (DEN): www.badmintoneurope.tv/en-int...
3 Types of Kevin Sanjaya SERVE: • 3 Types of Kevin Sanja...
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UPDATE: The BWF has just announced, that this type of serve will be banned for the next two major events (Sudirman Cup and and Malaysia Masters). If the serve will get banned completly will be discussed at the next BWF Council on May 29th (but I am pretty sure it will 😉) Here you find all the details: www.badmintoneurope.com/cms/default.aspx?clubid=4685&cmsid=239&pageid=5381&m=8672877
I am suprised how fast the BWF took action but I also think it is a good decision. What are you thoughts on it?
This type of serve gives too much advantage to the server. I totally agree with the decision
Hahaha 😂😂
kudos to BWF... usually this kind of decision take months or even years to decide
it completely reducing the chance or receiver to return the shuttle well. it ultimately had to be banned
Is SEA Games also affected by this?
In table tennis, you have to toss the ball from a flat palm to prevent "pre-spin" being added to the ball. In pickleball, they changed the rule this year to prevent pre-spinning the ball. I see this getting outlawed relatively quickly.
This rule appeared for exacly the same reason in table tennis. 60 years ago servers used to spin the ball with fingers before hitting with racket. That flat palm rule came to avoid this.
He looks young er in the thumbnail
I thought this applied to any Raquel sport. Didn't know you could spin the shuttle on "release"
@@storkshot Yes, simply covered in the current rule; ie, "Tempering"with the shuttle not allowed! ( though Enforcing would require to redefine this specific tempering)
Agreed. The shuttle is played with the racket. Holding the shuttle for a serve should be just that. The hand should not be allowed to add energy into the shuttle.
I showed this video to the badminton coach at my school (ex international pro and coaches one of the best girls badminton highschool teams in Japan) and his reaction surprised me. Apparently about 3 years ago, this serve was used within the inter high tournament and it caused a lot of problems, so much so that for the last 3 years, there is a rule within all competitions agreed on by all coaches of highschool teams not to allow this serve. But apparently many Japanese people have been using this serve for a couple of years!
Wow that is interesting, thanks for sharing it! Let's see if something similar will happen
@@tobiaswadenka8435 Marcus Rindshøj was in a Danish podcast on May 3rd, he admits it should probably be ruled out, he said this about the idea:
"Some years ago, I think it was about 4 years ago, I was at a youth tournament in the Netherlands, where I see a Japanese player in the training hall, he is performing a serve which is curling and spinning a crazy amount. I had never seen anything like it before, so I end up recording it on video just for fun, and then I didn't think much about it since then.
Then at a training session a few months ago, me and one of my friends are playing around a bit with the serve after the training, and then he has the idea that you can try and spin it in your hand, by like flicking it in your hand, and then I tried to do it as well, and then after a while I saw the video and tried to do the spinning in the hand, and then I could imagine that it might be that way he is doing it. And then I have just tried to fine tune it, like how much is it spinning, and how can I get it to spin even more."
@@thomashoglund5671 Wow. So it really came from Japan but Japanese refrained from using it. Code of Bushido!
if this gets picked up by the pros, I am 100% sure this will be ruled out very fast
Yes maybe but actually I am not sure how fast such a change of rules is possible and it could take a while or maybe pros also find ways and ideas to return it
I honestly hope it will be. Doubles already suffers from too short rallies.
I hope it does. I can't stand gimmick serves 🙄. This kind of serve pops up on CZcams every couple of years.
I either have to put up with this kind of serve, or people trying to do drive serves from the same height as their armpits.
the korean players used it a few years ago before the covid. I have seen it and the other side complains about it, they ask why the shuttle is spinning
@@Tldrx and what happened then? Do you remember what tournaments/matches you saw that?
This serve has actually changed the outcome of a pro match! About a week and a half ago in a Korean professional tournament match current National Team player Choi Sol Gyu and Seo Seung Jae found themselves a game down when in the second game I saw choi start to use a serve with a ton of spin that completely threw off the opponents. Once he started to get into the rhythm of the serve there was no way back for the opponents!
Here’s the match that I saw for those who are curious:
czcams.com/users/livey-q2-VpBrOs?feature=share
Choi first uses the serve around the 22 minute mark which the opponent manages to return with decent quality but it’s not until he starts to use it more later in the game when he is down around 9-14 that the momentum starts to shift.
I was actually really curious about how he was getting so much spin from the grip he was using and tried practicing a few times myself without much success but the flicking of the shuttle makes it so much more clear as to how that much spin is put on the bird. Thanks for the helpful video!
Thank you for the great insight and the link!
Agree, great sharing, in the 3rd set Choi's spin serve was so crazily effective that when he served they almost won all the points
which match are you referring to?
@@TheAthleteJClook up for the link in this thread.
wow that serve dominated the 3rd set!
Seem like spining the ball before serving in volleyball.I will try this serve this weekend.Thank you very much for this clip.
In table tennis, they added a specific rule for the services that specifies no spin can be imparted to the ball.
Pretty sure this will be added to badminton rules if needed.
Thank you for your explanation. Very insightful.
No way they will keep this legal though since this will cause an enormous shift of advantage in favour of the server. I bet they are evaluatating possible rule changes as we are watching this clip right now. Great video, thanks a lot for pointing out the details of this stroke of genius.
Servus,
Ich hab ne ganz andere Frage an dich:
Ich hatte vor einiger Zeit deinen Test der Maschine von Tennisman gesehen und wollte fragen, wie zufrieden du mit den Zangen bist und ob die noch immer die Version mit den 5 Zähnen nutzt?
Ich brauche bald nämlich neue Zangen.
Und zusätzlich wie zufrieden du mit den seitlichen Haltern aus Kunststoff bist? Du hast ja länger die Chudek benutzt.
Leider sind die schwarzen seit einigen Monaten schwer zu bekommen.
This really is gonna help me as I am having my school tournament in 3-4 days !! Thanks for this information ❤❤😊
I'm looking forward to seeing how this serve develops in the pro level. Like you said, this might be a turning point and a new era for the service game in matches. I'm definitely going to be practicing this serve but also learning to how to return it.
Yes this might be important as I had the feeling that it is not too hard to learn. Recurving seemed difficult because many times the shuttle does not turn at all
I doubt that this serve will be allowed to continue as with other racket sports, they frown upon external forces acting on the ball/birdie that's not caused by the racket.
Very interesting and creative. This feels like something that could eventually be banned if abused in tournaments enough. Similar to what happened in table tennis with finger spinning (spoilers, it got banned) during the service to produce virtually unreturnable serves. This service no longer relies on racket skills to gain an advantage but on a loophole in the rules. What was originally supposed to be a way to start the rally (holding the shuttle with your hand) has become a tactic. I am curious though if pros will find a counter to this serve or whether it fundamentally breaks the game.
Yeah, I agree that if it is really impossible to return, it'll get banned - it's just not in the spirit of the game and makes for a poor spectacle.
Everything becomes a tactic when you're playing competitively. The spin serve can also be very advantageous when executed correctly. czcams.com/video/US8H71N5JDI/video.html
Wow. A new serve to add to the tool box
Thank you for this!
Im not saying I invented this but I just watched too many anime including prince of tennis lol.
In college I would do this cause I thought it just made sense. I would even make it so the shuttle cock would barely go over the net making it much harder to return or at times like chop it (again not a pro at badminton so dont know what the real term is) but it would let the shuttle cock wiggle so much along with the spin. Me and my friend won our school sports festival event that year. I was in college 13 yrs ago.
Prince of tennis was crazy with their technqiues, I too used to try different variations and try to come up with different moves...bomerang serve, snake hit from POT lol
Thank You for the video. In the late 60's, Chinese players was using the inverted service. The Sideks were the first to use it in an international tournament. Even as a low service, it is effective only if you add the height of the whole shuttle crossing the top of net as on occasion the feathers will brush the net and fall short. Not certain about accuracy with base line flicks.
Sidek serve is different. Sidek no spin at start and hit feathers, no? This serve add spin at start and hit top. Even explained in video.
@@vijayendranvijay457 Yes, they are different.
Hello, I am a badminton CZcamsr in Korea. The spin serve was used by Korean players, but I saw the video and it was used in international competitions!
In my personal opinion, I would like the BWF to ban the technology by law.
Amazing serving tricks..... i will try this one..Thank You!!!!!!
This is exiting!! I don't play double unfortunately, but I really like idea outside the box. I think it is way too early to call for a ban. The technique just got introduced in 100 years of badminton...., let some time to player to found to discovers the best ways to counter it.
Thanks so much for sharing
You are the first one to address it. I m subscribing u just for that ❤
Another great video bo! 👍
Watching the video again, 7 aces in a raw at the start of the game by Rindshoj serve-that s remarkable. But I am certain, players will find a way to counter this as well, from then, this will be used more sparingly as a surprise weapon (Just like flick serves/spin serves),
I have mastered (kind of) spin serve and found it effective when used sparingly. A few here and there throughout the game and a master weapon at critical points when opponents are too eager to attack.
Yet as we see later in the video, they still lost 21-19, and were behind 13-11, so the serve is not as dominant as the video would make it out to be!
Really it is very useful to us thank you🙏🙏🙏🙏
Wow time to learn this... Quite incredible that the opponents won the first set
Thanks for sharing.
7 aces in a row ! In MD ! This is just insane ! Gonna watch the full match ! Thanks for the insight Tobias ! Time to try this evil serve !
link the full match when you find it please
@@Kishgofu under the description
My serve game is pretty good, now all my playmates are gonna go crazy! Top video Tobias, btw I play on occasion with Manuel Menzel... he mentioned you & him went to the same high school!
Ah so cool give my regards to him and suprise him with the serve ;)
The spin serve is back on!! 😮😮😮
Crazy man. I will try this
excellent idea :) thx
I will obviously try to use this in my upcoming tournament
OK I was about to trash-talk you in my comment, like « another good YT channel failing to the click-bait sensational title, to get more views »
Then I watched the video, and now I feel like I need to apologize; it is indeed a crazy new idea, that could really add value the serve/return-serve situation!
Good job Tobias for spotting this, now let’s try it at the next training ;)
Thank you Fred, it also was hard for me to write such a title as I hate all the click bait that is already happening but I also think in that case it is kind of appropriate XD
nice, I am going to try this
Thanx U for sharing 🙏👍
I see you finally upgraded to the Arc 11 Pro. I'm so proud of you cause I was waiting for that time :) but yeah i'll use this serve for sure if i can get it down
Yes amazing racket! Video about it coming soon ;)
A million years ago when I was in the Air Force, we had a badminton tournament at our gym. I always thought of badminton as an easy fun game. I had no idea of the level of badminton play that I saw in that tournament. I was completely blown away by the stamina and athleticism of the players.
It is a game for girls
Actually shocked at the amount of views. Nice work.
Is hitting feather serve more lethal or fspining with thumb
Very interesting thank you
Wow... It's gonna be great.... Let me try it out now....
Witzig, dass es Dich in meine Vorschläge gespült hat. Tolles Video. Grüße aus Hamburg an den Rest der Familie. Roy
Hi Roy! Ja richte ich aus =) Viele Grüße zurück!
hi tobias, i was wondering if you can make a video on doubles. if you're standing behind and your partner is serving, how should you move in case the opponent drives or lifts? and if you're in the front, after serving, what should we do next.
Great info
What if you hold the shuttle upside down and hit the cork to add topspin for a really flat fast drive serve?
I'm definitely stealing your accent for my voice acting reel. Your voice has such character. Nice video 👍
Wow i will definitely try this out 👍
I've sometimes done a deceptive serve in a doubles game that my opponents have argued is illegal, but reading the badminton laws, I can't think of why it should be illegal.
I start by dropping the shuttle, and pretend to do a regular serve, but then follow the shuttle downward with the racket, until it's quite low and almost hitting the floor, and only then, I flick the shuttle to do a deep serve instead. This messes up the anticipation of the opponent, and many complain this is an undue delay of the service, or that the racket is not moving forward continuously.
However, I think it's actually legal. First, while this is counterintuitive, the service technically starts only as soon as your racket first starts moving forward, so while the shuttle is dropping, the service has not started yet (see law 9.2). Second, there is no undue delay as per law 9.1.2, because that law only applies to the time after the backwards motion is completed. But in this case, the backwards motion is still going on while the shuttle drops. The trick is in still moving the racket backwards while the shuttle is already dropping, I don't see any law that prohibits this, but I could be wrong?
Today I ried this and the result was amused,, I got around 60% positive result thank you ❤❤
Ye jo app racket ley rahey ho ye kon sa h. Or kitney price ka h. Or kaisa h
Naaa... das ist ja mal spannend..kann man ja mal beim nächsten Training auf die to do Liste nehmen....👍🆙️🙋♂️
Please make a video on preparation for a tournament
Game-changer for sure. I'm going to try it tomorrow against my partner.
Bro I tried this serve in today’s tournament of my school and first it was 2-8, I started doing this serve and made the points 9-8 😅❤❤ ! This serve is amazing bro 🤩🥰🥰🥇
Came from The Badminton Experience😁
Welcome 😉
For me, the service is the first line of attack that's why being consistent with your service is essential
I see the rules changing to use a "flat hand" requirement to hold the shuttlecock, like the ball serve requirement in Table Tennis. The flat hand serve rule came about in Table Tennis because of the same thing, players pre-spinning the ball before the serve.
Yes I could imagine that something similar will happen in badminton
What is called the orange stone used for gripping badminton shoes plzz anyone tell me
Hello. I am a table tennis player, but I heard about this serve and got super excited about it because I love innovation in sport. In table tennis, which is a very spin oriented sport, you are not allowed to throw the ball with your fingers during the serve -- you have to throw it with a flat hand. At first glance for me, I dont think the serve is unreturnable, because the spin effect that you are adding has its own predictable rythm. I think the physics of it dictate that it will flip at a frequency, albeit one that slowly changes.
The current service topic in tabletennis is that a lot of players now seem to "hide" the impact point of the service with the arm holding the ball.
This will make it much harder to read. Maybe this also can be used in badminton 🤔
This is like an amalgamation between cricket and badminton. There is a variation in spin bowling called carrom ball, that uses the same technique. Nice idea 💡
Hey Tobias just getting recovered from shoulder Injury after 3 months of not playing badminton. How to restart and get into tournament atleast by end of this year
I do hope they will rule this out fast. Like in table tennis, you have to start the serve from open have without spinning the ball. Let's hope something similar here.
have been using the forehand version for years
Clever! May not last long but worth trying.
Even though they have recently ruled out the “pre-spin” serve, this will always be a fun way to serve
I m a new fan of yours . I m a 50 yr old woman and a doctor from India , and still playing badminton frequently in my area Sports Complex . Your instructions are so helpful & enlightening!
So cool to hear that and happy the videos are helpful for you! All the best to you and kind regards from Germany to India 😊
Back in thirties, Table tennis outlawed serves where fingers spun the ball onto the racket creating nonreturnable serves.
In the Philippines, they have sand paper bat competitions. In those competitions, you can't win points on your serve. It will be interesting to see how Badminton handles this.
ano po yung sand paper bat?
Let’s give it a try at next training session 😊
I'm still trying to get perfect consistency on my normal serve let alone considering this!. Will you be trying this serve on your next tournament? and which tournament are you playing next?
I think next up are national ranking tournaments. A few months to go so maybe enough time to get it going ;)
I've been trying the serve today and I'm not sure whether you're a fast learner or I am the slow one, but my result aren't nearly as good as yours so far for the same amount of time spent. So far I found that rotational speed seems to be a crucial element. I have been having better result when I really 'flicked' hard to shuttle rather than flicking it moderately.
The faster you flick it the better but timing becomes more crucial. Get the timing right and the shuttle will look drunk all the way to opponent's court.
I am still not at a level where I can play it on a consistent basis at all and I make way to many mistakes so don't worry. I think it needs many hours to get this serve "match ready" so far for me it works best when I don't overthink it and when I am quite relaxed and don't try to flip the shuttle too hard
@@tobiaswadenka8435 Thanks! I will keep this in mind; I plan on grinding it for a few days.
@@markwinston3119 Looks like you know what you are doing. Could you please show or write A step by step direction. Like hold or grab the cork with Thump n ... so, then, spin the cork with the finger or side of the finger ... ect, & spin click or Snti clockwise?
I wonder whether there is any sense in using this technique in the singles competition as well
Has the same effect as the banned serve when hitting the feathers, interesting
omfg this serve is pure evil
im practicing it 😂
shuttle : you spin me right round, baby right round 😂
i'm definitely gonna use this serve in my next game haha, thanks a lot tobias
Haha, you are welcome, let me know how it worked!
It is very easy to resolve this. Only spins that are generated by racket should be allowed. Probably some modification to the rules for how to let go of shuttle is needed. It has to be easy for referees to enforce. Like ping pong and flat palm toss.
Does the rotation direction matter?
Tobias, this service works with plastic as well-I tried it.
Just FYI-There is a forehand version as well. My friend was getting crazy spin-now on close observation, and I realized, he is rolling the shuttle in his palm imparting spin before hitting with the racket.
Thanks for the insight! Is it harder when you use plastic shuttle or similiar to feathershuttles?
@@tobiaswadenka8435 Serve is harder with plastic - but works. Greg & Jenny posted a small clip @ 3.00 with plastic in their video. I will shoot a video with my friend (forehand version) when we play next n share it with you.
Hi Tobias, what is the camera you are using?
I mainly use the Sony Alpha 6400
Can we do this with nylon shuttles?
These types of serves make the opponents frustrate and those who can't control anger end up breaking the rackets😂
Maybe we should look into how Lee Yong Dae serves. He had done this before and sent the shuttle wobbling (not spinning) across the net with a normal hold.
He addressed this in the video, you can already add a spin to a serve by normally holding it and slicing it with the racket, this is adding more spin to the shuttle using your fingers. A shuttle wobbles because it's spinning, a shuttle won't move side to side if it's flat.
How to play Singles & Doubles Against Tall Players & Why its little different to play against Left handers compared to right handers of same skill set or level
If it becomes unreturnable you may need to go to table tennis rules. Must hold the only with palm must leave the palm before you can make contact.
It has taken you 150 years to come up with this? That's more than just mindblowing. That's impossible.
Can you please make a step by step guide on how to do it, I’ve been trying for 30 minutes straight and I only got one serve to look like yours. It’ll be much appreciated 🙏
for example in volleyball you can spin the ball whatever your want
For left handed players, the flip direction of the shuttle would be in upwards direction. Right?
Good question how it would work for lefthanders but i can imagine that it works the same way for them as well
@@tobiaswadenka8435 Is the Spin cl9ckwise or Anti? And using What( predominatly) the Thump or finger( which one?)
Simply add the rule of "need to hold shuttle at the feathers" to mitigate pre-spinning the shuttle.
This will be banned posthaste, but thanks for posting! It's very interesting/innovative.
And then there will be no more forehand serves? Because in forehand serve shuttle is held not at the feathers.
@@vijayendranvijay457 then I guess make it so that you need to hold the shuttle at the feathers only when using a backhand serve
Same as spin smash. It hit feather and make it spin. It very hard to catch it and return
Banned now
Will it be effective on long serve as well?
the spin won't really matter if you make it a long serve, as it will simply stop spinning before the opponent can hit it. But I think you can make it curve a lot if you do a flick serve!
I agree, there will be no real spin when you flick but I can imagine that you can also make a longer serve in singles with that kind of spin, that could also make it hard to return
Somebody has been watching Pickleball! All kinds Pre-spin serves were legal two years ago. In 2022 they banned pre-spinning off the paddle (which you couldn't really do with a shuttlecock). Then in 2023 they banned just this kind of pre-spinning with the other hand. This serve will work for a year or two, then they'll ban it, if it's as hard to return as you say.
Around 10 years ago, this particular serve was used in a couple of Danish tournaments. However, the organizers were uncertain about its legality and needed to make a decision. As a result, players refrained from using the serve until a verdict was reached. Despite the lack of a definitive ruling, the serve gradually fell out of favor at higher levels for reasons that remain unclear.
Maybe because some officials and players somewhere thought points that lasted longer than just the serve were a better spectacle and a better representation of a sport?
there was a similar serve in pickleball that was revently banned
Man, i remember the misbun serve, it was banned lol
326,750 views, 6.3k likes, 330 comments, 98.3k subscribers. Nice!!
I am gonna use it in my school tournament, I will let you know that if they allow me to do this serve or not? It is gonna be fun 😅🤩
Sir how I better my foot work
I don't know why badminton serve has to be so complicated with many restrictions, especially height which in casual setting with no service judge it often cause problems. Just follow tennis/volleyball and serve from a certain distance behind the back line with no other restriction. A bit closer for the ladies. That will solve all service problems. No one can smash hard enough from back there to give a real advantage.
That sounds good especially for doubles. I hate when double rallies end with just 5 shots
@@Kami_26 YES, tennis ends in Two serve tries! So there it is.
Adding spin to the shuttle and then hitting it makes it kind of uncontrollable unless ppl who will master it... Lets see what happens in the future.
I think BWF has been observing and deciding about this kind of serve longer that everyone thinks. And they are right to take action.