MASCULINITY is NOT TOXIC
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
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Ep 207 | @MacabreStorytelling came through for a spoiler packed analysis of "The Iron Claw" starring Jeremy Allen White, Harrison Dickinson, and THE Zac Efron
0:00 Preview
5:30 Zac Efron's face
11:02 was the dad evil?
16:24 is wrestling real?
19:28 The love of brothers in spite of their parents
20:56 MASCULINITY is NOT TOXIC
24:16 experiencing your loved one after their DEATH
27:08 Kerry Von Erich's suicide
30:16 was the Von Erich CURSE real?
40:09 feeding into your children's dreams
42:51 living for LEGACY vs COMMUNITY
46:40 MY DAD was even worse
48:43 what did they grow on that farm??
54:30 Did they get Ric Flair the Nature Boy completely wrong in the movie
1:00:14 getting your family ready for your own death
Watch episode 206 on The Brick Lady Scam and The father who decided not to pay for his daughter's wedding - • Brick lady SCAMMED us,...
Watch Mac @MacabreStorytelling
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Follow at / wavingtheredflagpodcast - Komedie
I think a lot of modern men who are enjoying modern conveniences need to understand that sometimes suffering is just suffering, and there is nothing to gain from it. That it doesn't "build character," it doesn't "make you stronger," and it is not something for people with a warm place to sleep, food to eat, means to pursue their hobby or sport, or physical/mental ability, to sit around trying to romanticize so that they feel special. Modern civilization isn't aiming for vaccines and technological innovations because "suffering is good, actually."
Exactly this! It’s tiring to hear my peers tell me that it’s good my life was filled with adversity bc it got me to where I am today. I always counter that there are many ways to get to this outcome, if I had to choose, I would have chosen not to suffer!
I think your missing it - there celebrating survival against the odds. And the equal opposite its not a win - Hurray were not accountable for our lives and complain and critique the world and wait for it to change because it should treat me better. Thats a losing strategy.
This reminds me of the absurdity of trying to normalize being fat because fat shaming is so bad . You can stop all the people you want obesity is still dangerous regardless of your mental or social escape.
We got to start getting back to being honest regardless it being harsh or not.
@@jaccl4539 You just said a whole lot of nothing. If you want to "survive against the odds", drop all your material goods and go live out in the woods or the desert. Don't sit up here on the internet, proposing that because your muscles hurt after the gym, that you are "suffering". That is an incredibly immature line of thinking.
One can take pride in the work and dedication that it takes to sculpt one's body to modern aesthetic beauty standards and/or physical strength. That's fine. But the process of doing that is NOT "suffering." Most of the things that men in developed Western nations do in order to peacock online and irl do not require suffering. Words mean things, please learn some definitions.
"Honesty" without tact and grace is just you looking for an excuse to criticize and tear another person down. That's not a worthwhile mental position to have, nor a persona to embody if you wish for a respectful existence.
I hope that you can find a trigger for your growth as a person someday, stranger.
@@winevnova
You may not like what he has said but it's the truth, objectively so. As someone from a third world country i can attest that the "suffering" i've went through made me who i am today, and even though it wasn't enjoyable it made me into the success I'm today.
Let me try explaining this in a way a leftist American might understand. Why is it that immigrants from poor countries seem to work harder and contribute to the economy far more than most native born Americans?
The simplest answer is of course their upbringing and the efforts made to distance themselves from poverty. You might not know this and will hopefully never get to experience this, but it takes a lot of balls for someone to uproot themselves from their family and community; all they have ever known. To foreign lands with the ever present possibility of getting murdered, robbed and graped on the way there or inside the country you have fled to.
It does build character! Because it is in those moments you get to truely know who you are and what you are capable of doing in the face of such adversity, where many have perished or simply given up and turned back.
And before you try to discredit all that i have typed for you by accusing me of glorifying/romanticising trauma. Let me give you a bit of my backstory.
I'm from South Africa, a country with one of THE highest inequality in the world. Black, born in 1997 three years after the end of apartheid.
My mom and dad both semi-literate(just research bantu education this essay is already too long as it is) worked and hustled hard to get me into a boarding school to get the best education possible.
Said school was in the province where i grew up with a majority 94% black population, with the white population being concentrated in a few racial enclaves(not really the case legal wise but it was an unspoken rule) where i got my secondary education. And boy you can bet the folks there weren't keen on having black people in their "safe spaces" unless you lived on their farms as something akin to an indentured servent.
Point is i have endured the worst 5 years of life being treated as less than, called a bobbejaan and kaffir by the white kids and the never ending hazings while school officials looked on with indifference.
Things got so bad to the point that i was one 8 black kids remaining from the initial 20-25. And i also thought of leaving too but my parents encouraged me to stay.
I had to work 5× as hard to even get a half nod from teachers and simply to compete and stick it up to the white kids who had everything handed to them from their parents.
It was in those moments where i learnt that i; as an African am as competent or even better than some white people out there due to my resilience and accomplishments.
And now looking back at all of that suffering; i would say that i appreciate the experience even though i didn't enjoy any part of it.
It moulded me to the person I'm today, i earn more than most people in my country (black and white) despite somebody like me being from a demographic more likely to continue the poverty cycle, and against all odds have achieved and became all that my parents wanted me to be.
While my trust fund abusers haven't made anything of themselves. Either working in daddy's farm or ending up as drug addicts.
I know I've already written a novel here, but i would like to leave you with some food for thought: If American conservatives weren't so overtly racist and intolerant of the cultures and religions of others. Minorities from immigrant backgrounds would've overwhelmingly been voting republican as they themselves believe and have lived what you refuse to be the truth
@@Tito-ze4hw I appreciate your response, however, I absolutely did say, "Modern men enjoying modern conveniences" and "men in developed Western nations." It appears that you are speaking as though my position is, "suffering doesn't exist." What my position is, is that Hard Work and Difficulty of a task does not equate to Suffering, and that labeling any kind of hard work as suffering, and then saying that you have "survived against the odds" when you are living a privileged life of privileged choices, in a modern, western, first world country, is foolish. You wrote a lot about making it through while living in a third world country and how trauma and circumstance shaped you; I believe you, but that is a different conversation addressing a point that I did not make.
On the topic of women having to endure sexism to pursue STEM; the people who say that women need to be stronger and if they give up it's on them... These people never say that these sexist men are actively hindering the progress of science with their misogyny.
Oh no. Now, we have to think about morals and sh*t🧔🏽♀️
The biosciences are like 60-40 majority women (70-30 in some fields) these days and a lot of the reckoning and accountability seeking on sexism and harassment that has happened in those fields has largely been only possible because of that demographic shift.
I mean you could just say that about almost anything, when we live in a patriarchal society.
Folks often romanticize Vincent Van Gogh and his struggle with mental illness, forgetting that he didn't make art because he suffered, he made art in spite of his suffering, which just begs the question, what could he have created if he had the support he needed?
YES! artists suffer not because they want to (most of the time) but that ends up getting romanticized regardless. can good art come from pain? sure. but the best art can come from unlimited creativity that isnt hindered by present pain
worse art
Theres a part of Maus (the comic about the Holocaust) where they say "suffering doesnt make you better. It just makes you suffer."
I think about it all the time. Its not suffering that makes you grow, its you. You can suffer and stagnante. And you can suffer and grow. Its not the suffering. Its what you choose to do.
Absolutely! Very well said. 😊
Just for the record: Marie Curie probably loved her life. She and her husband did science together, she won her first Nobel Prize with him. (The second one she won solo.)
She insisted her bridal gown doubled as a lab coat, which she wore for several years.
Her elder daughter was also a scientist, also married a scientist and they co-won a Nobel Prize.
These are the decisions of someone who's pretty enthused with their life, at minimum
She died from the results of radiation poisoning, but no one knew at the time that it would be dangerous. She wasn't deliberately suffering for science.
Ric Flair has a crazy life story. He was abducted as a baby and sold into like a child adoption scheme. Lots of trauma in that family
I feel Josh, I was so deeply sad after this movie because it didn't have to happen. After the wedding scene everything went left. But the wedding scene shows how great life could have been for these brothers.
Five star episode. Each take from all of you was *chef's kiss*.
Don't care about all the spoilers, y'all compelled me to go see this movie. Thank you!
On the “is wrestling fake?” Question you have to understand that to “win” the belt you used to have to be a great performer in the ring. Which takes REAL talent, not only the ability to sell moves but to also win over a crowd and make them love or hate you. And that’s where it becomes an art. Plenty of wrestlers were great in the ring but sucked on the mic. Guys like Shawn Micheals and Ric Flair have that rare mix of in ring performances and on mic talent. So if they script you to have the belt it signifies at least to the people in the business that you are at the top of the game.
Damn, they're stepping up the intros for the guests. Got production value and everything
"It's a soft skill, you know"
Top 5 Jokes on this podcast, dead or alive
Would love to hear you guys talk about finances, mistakes as well as best practices. Especially on a day Alvin is there.
The ashes after being cremated have no nutritional value I'm afraid... You'll want Alkaline hydrolysis which is like a water cremation where you're turned into goop and can be used as fertilizer (๑•̀ㅂ•́)و✧
the first two minutes of this has me wheezing. ima comment more once i watch but damn solid intro y’all
That's a real thing for some "boy moms". They do the cooking and cleaning, but other than that they let the husband tend to the boys and teach them how to be "men". And yeah it usually doesn't turn out well.
Well, it's like the O-Dog character. Arguably, the product of toxic masculinity. You never see his parents. But, you get the idea he has a boy-mom and his n*ggas are the only brothers he has.
It's the Sateré-Mawé of Brazil who use bullet ants as a coming of age ritual.But they're an indigenous tribe that live in the Amazon Rainforest, of course they're going to have an extreme coming of age ritual that involves a lot of suffering. Their normal life is encountering jaguars. anacondas, piranhas, candiru etc. Those bullet ants are locally sourced. The ability to take physical pain is a vital component of life.
It doesn't really apply to people living the city life.
As far as healthy quitting goes, I've had lots of positive male role models show me the way. Unfortunately, I've managed to outlive their own sons whereas otherwise I should not have. I just chalk it up to look this is what manhood comes with.
I curious if you guys saw Kevin Von Eric's reaction to the film. He said that his dad was not nearly that mean.
I didn't expect to see black Willy Wonka discuss a wrestling movie.
My n*gga Will said if y'all don't stop playing with him he finna slap the sh*t outta White boy🤣
40:36 damn this hit 😂
Josh lookin like his father took him to tha city to see a marching band when he was a young boy.
This was a good one. With the weakening of generational abuse a good media for that would bob, the devil, and god. Also I'm with Eddie biscuits are the stuff. Also the boondocks part was golden.
All I know is once I got big enough, strong enough, smart enough to defend myself the ass whoopins became less frequent. A slap here and there. Punch in the chest or arm from Unc. But, no more get my belt and lay ya ass down🤣
This episode was amazing.
I agree. Is masculinity inherently toxic? F*CK no. Is there a CULTURAL problem with males taking advantage of women? I mean, yeah.
There are so many toastees out here! 😃 I feel like they should have way more subscribers. 'Same for here too, although it's definitely growing...
Watching Macabre and the boys with a Big Mac and Mac 'n Cheese
TV wrestlers are performers, theyre stunt people who also have to act.
I wonder what Doris was painting at the end. She's like 98% the evil son-of-a-gun the Husband is, so it's probably like a picture of a pony from her childhood - certainly not anything like a portrait of her dead sons.
It's interesting to see non-wrestling fans react to wrestling. Doubly so because this story is well known within the fandom itself.
YES! are you a fan?
not the cut to boondocks hahahaha
What's the name of this movie again?
The Iron Claw.
It was in a Bill Burr standup special
I thought the dad loved his kids. The way he loved his kids was not healthy & toxic. The fact that the father actually ranked his own sons.
so much felt like both parents never grieved the death of the eldest son.
Kept putting it up to the other siblings to raised each other as well as compete for the number 1 slot favorite sons.
Brothers was the support system for each other.
The Boondocks placement got me ready to donate!
Um actually NWA championship was the main belt in wrestling in the 80s🤓
We need more wrestling movies. Hopefully we will get one about two people I won't mention the full name of here.
Those two people are Vince and Chris.
1:00:50 Where does the plastic bag go?
I don't know, throw it in the ocean
PSA: Please don't throw plastic in the ocean. We have enough of an environmental crisis already.
14:05 😭😭
Dammit, I’m late
Same wtf lol smh
A24 has been waving the red flag for a decade. Highly recommend watching Enemy, The Lighthouse, The Green Knight, The Witch, The Sisters Brothers. Each of these movies touches on or is directly about toxic masculinity.
43:00 But I have no girlfriend, no kids, no family, no parents
....
Wait hold up, what happened to the parents? Did he sacrifice them? Bc you get (at least biologically) parents for free.
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You wait till you're on the tab for a 50K$ wedding as the father of the Bride & YOUR ONE THING, is an issue to her?
@@MaejorArray me & my wife paid for ours. Wasnt more than 10 spent .