It does matter which direction you wire the coil. You're confusing polarity with phase. You also want the coils to be matches as closely as possible. The hum is induced equally in both coils. as they are in series, you want the signal of the pickup and coil to be opposite polarity from each other. The 60hz hum will be canceled (or bucked) but since only one coil has pole pieces that can pick up string vibration, there is no string signal in the dummy coil to cancel. if you have pick up and dummy in the same polarity and in series, the hum will actally get louder. You are right about the guitar cable not making a difference which way it's plugged in, but it's not actually analogous to the coils.
It doesn't matter without a magnet. It's a straight piece of wire. It's like putting in a 10 inch piece of wire instead of a 3 inch piece from the switch to the volume pot. It can pick up noise because it's so long and not shielded but I see he solved that problem in a later version.....he made a grounding cage around the dummy coil.
Do you wire the dummy coil "in series" or In parallel? What grounding cage do you have to use to put the dummy coil in?How does the dummy coil bucks cancels the hum noises when its just a series coil of wire in series with the pickup?When you put the dummy coil "in parallel" the DC resistance goes from 6K to 3K and the volume drops in half.
@2 Theworst The dummy coil is wired out of phase with the pick-up. 60 cycle hum signal in the dummy would be out of phase with the 60 cycle induce into the pick-up, just like a humbucker. It would make a poor high-pass filter, because you would have to shunt the coil to ground to use it as a high pass. Coils increase in impedance (reactance) as frequency goes up. Capacitors decrease as the frequency goes up.
late to the party, but indeed, wiring direction does make a difference when it comes to coils (google for 'solenoid clockwise anticlockwise' to understand why : the induced current's polarity depends on the coil direction, as simple as that)... also, for best hum canceling effect, you clearly shouldn't shield your dummy coil...its purpose is to pickup as much noise as your regular pickups so that the two coils (dummy and actual pickup) end up canceling each other (just like in an humbucker).
Reversing the cord won't change polarity. It's always tip to tip, sleeve to sleeve connection. But try to reverse those connections, or inside the guitar jack swap ground and 'hot' wires and you 'll have a hell of noise. Not from a polarity or phase problem, but because the guitar will not be grounded at all and the guitar+cord will work as a big antenna with wich you can even receive and hear some radio signal (no kidding: in fact those radio signals are rare nowadays. Taxi, police etc but they use cell phone today ). The dummy coil is like the second coil in a humbucker. It must generate a signal in antiphase of the pickup when receiving electromagnetic signal (the noise) . What's makes a difference with a humbucker is that there is no magnetic (not electromagnetic) phenomenom involved. In the humbucker the two coil must be reversed wound from each other (as they are electrically in phase) to cancel the electromagnetic noise AND have magnets of opposite direction to generate signals (from magnetic disturbance by the strings) wich are in phase (else it will be a Humbucker and a Soundbucker with no signal at all). Hence the dummy coil may be wound in either direction, but there will only one way to wire it (for the sake of phase). One will work (no hum) and the other not (more hum). Just try and find the good one, no rocket science. There is left to manage the middle pickup (reverse wound but electrically in phase with the other two, hence the need to change phase of the dummy coil in position 3 ), and the 2 and 4 position where the d. coil is of no use (electromagnetic noise already cancelled) but moreover will had noise (the electromagnetic induced noise it makes have nothing to be cancelled with). A switch may be used to put the dummy out for those positions, but the 3 will retain it's original hum. Sorry for length and weird english as i'm no native speaker.
+ant Sor Then how was his strat hum-free in all 5 positions? I'd really like to find out, I might try this mod myself. I have one strat full of grounded aluminium foil which made the guitar noise-free, but a dummy coil might be an easier solution.
Not easier.. my strats are super silent with just a shield (kitchen aluminium) and a properly grounded circuit. And think of that : in order to work a dummy coil must be unshielded.... another problem.
+Knight Solaire Because what you're doing IF you have the phase wrong (I dunno) is increasing capacitance and resistance, which takes out your super high end, where the hiss is. It's similar, but not the same (because of capacitance, mainly) as turning down tone, which also kills noise to some extent. It's mostly analogous to running a 100+ yard cable. Hendrix experimented with just that.
Switching the leads on the pickup would (electrically) reverse the windings of the coil, so it does matter. You coincidentally wired it the correct way. Taking off the magnet ensures that you won't go out of phase.
what if I turn a humbucker pick up to a dummy coil? I can't find a single coil magnet and also I am afraid to split them because I have break one humbucker already. Sorry rural area guy here.
It wouldn't be effective. With a humbucker as a dummy, you will have three coils total, so one of the coils isn't going to get canceled. A dummy coil also has to be basically the same shape and size and as the coil it's canceling, but with the windings reversed.
When you have a coil, and there are magnets affecting it, such as, in an electric motor, the polarity- can make a difference in the speed of the armature. I learned this in the early 60's, when I was rewinding small Mabuchi motors for slot cars. Once the magnets are removed, theoretically, there is simply a coil of wire without polarity. When you add it into a circuit with another coil, as in a guitar pickup, the direction does matter, as it can affect the phasing of the pickup. If it is added like in the dummy coil function, it affects all the settings. If there is no phase cancellation, (there shouldn't be) or reduction in levels in all switch positions, then, in essence, it is wired correctly. The only way to see if it matters, is to simply reverse the leads on the dummy coil. If it changes, and to what degree. I'm a Luthier, and repairman. I have seen this done from the Fender factory- - and have the factory diagrams to show the correct wiring... Fender- indeed, wired some models of Strats with dummy coils.
Hi Nelson. I wouldn't worry too much about the doubters, you've proven that the modifications with adding a dummy coil gets rid of the noise. Even Stevie Ray Vaughan's strats had dummy coil's installed by his guitar tech Rene. All the information is out there if anybody wants to have a go. Just Google 'Dummy Pickup Coils for Single Coil Powered Guitars' and you will find all the information and diagrams of what you need to do. Keep up the good work Nelson.
@4:20 Woodeso's Guitar Mods Yes your logic is flawed. :-) You are misunderstanding how polarity works. Using one end vs. the other of a cable does not switch polarity. If you wanted to switch polarity in a cable you would disassemble one end of the cable and swap the wire that was going to the tip of the jack to the shield, and the shield wire to the tip. This would make a lot more buzz. In a coil polarity is determined by looking at the wind direction, (counter)clockwise looking from the top, and the start and end of the wire. This absolutely does make a difference in the polarity of both the signal and noise that the coil picks up. Also, you need to look up how humbuckers work.... The two coils both pick up the same noise, but because they are wired reverse polarity the noise from one cancels the noise from the other. This would cancel most of the tone they pick up from the stings, but the magnets are also reversed, so the signals from the stings are already reverse polarity, so when they get added together in reverse they don't cancel, they add. A dummy coil does the same thing, except that because it has no magnet it isn't picking up much of anything from the strings. So if you really want it to be humbucking it will only work when connected in reverse polarity with reference to the pickup(s) you have selected. As to affecting the tone: the extra windings of the dummy will "load" the other pickup(s), this may or may not have a noticeable effect. [You could experiment with wiring a lower value dummy in series instead of parallel.] The impedance value of the dummy should match the other pickups for best hum cancellation and less parallel loading. *UPDATE* Just rewatched your original videos. you are wiring the coil in series. This will block some high frequencies from passing. The smaller the coil value the less highs will be rolled off, but also the less effective hum cancellation. In cases such as yours I defer to the cardinal rule of music/audio: "If it sounds good, it is good!"
Your dummy coil needs to be wound in the opposite direction of the pickups you are trying to quiet down. (In this case it’s the bridge and or the neck in positions 1&3 or 1&5 depending on the type of switch) If it’s not you will continue to have hum. Polarity has nothing to do with it, as the magnets have been removed
It makes sense to me... Once the magnets are out, it's just a coil. If there was some strange difference, then when you secured the dummy coil into the body it would "change" depending on which direction you place it inside the body cavity. If it works as just a coil, then what is the technical issue? I like it when things like this simply work... Maybe It defies some principle, but it works!!!! Kudos dude!
ok I'll also throw in my 2 cents. Direction does matter. The way you installed the dummy coil was in series and direction matters, To achieve hum cancelling the dummy needs to be RW to the pickups and if your middle pup is RWRP then some kind of switch will be needed to remove the dummy coil in pos 2 and 4, The only way you get hum cancelling in all 5 pos is if your middle pup is not rwrp, You do loose some highs but its very small but can be noticeable depending on your equipment, also your dummy coil reduces more hum the closer it gets in resistance to the original pups but above 70% is unnoticeable. I like to use HB coils because they are smaller and work perfectly. If you reverse your leads and still have no hum then I have no explanation because it has never worked that way for me,
In order to assess this we can ignore guitars for the moment and work with the electronics. We are essentially talking about two inductors joined in series . Lets assume they are identical inductors . One inductor has a magnetic core and the other has also a core but it is air . The model for the magnetic inductor can be modelled as an audible source ( guitar strings ) plus an inductor in series . So now we have a sound source , an inductor representing the pickup connected to another identical inductor which represents the inline empty coil. So if we assume that noise hum has capacitively coupled onto this circuit the basic question becomes if we swap the polarity of one inductor will this affect the circuit in any way ? The inductors a. Non polarity rated and if reversed connected will produce or accept the opposite magnetic field. What we desire is that both coils have hum induced in them and cancel out with the non common audio passing through. The dummy coil is best orientated
Hi Nelson you are absolutely right. Pickups only have a polarity to ensure they are wired in phase correctly. If it's just a coil without magnetic pole pieces then it makes zero difference which ends you use for the input and output of the dummy cool. Nice videos by the way and thanks for sharing your ideas!
Without being a wizard of electronics i do know why it works The loop acts as an antenna just like the pickup, and picks up about the same electronical noise When added to the signal it cancels out the noise already present from the pickup But if the phase is reversed it will add to the signal instead
Top facing clockwise vs top facing counter clockwise will make a difference. You can flip this by either reversing the leads or physically flipping the dummy coil. I tested this by wiring a dummy coil into the circuit with long wires so I could hold the coil and move it around freely. I could rotate it around in the air and observe very dramatic changes in noise coming through the amp. Why does this happen? Couldn't tell ya, but yes the direction a coil faces does have an effect.
Hello Nelson,thought I would toss out a couple thoughts on electronic gizmo stuff. First understand that hum is usually a product of the amp and the guitar and the guitar cable together. Different amps may respond differently to guitar based hum cancelling efforts. Most common hum source is the heater circuit in tube amps. The heater winding is usually not referenced to ground in older amps and this allows the heater circuit to "float" up to the point that it can interfere with the audio circuits. Second understand that the pickups in a guitar are essentially AC power sources when the strings are vibrating. The impedance (resistance) of the coil is an indication of how much wire is wound into the coil. More wire = more impedance which in theory is more signal coming from the pickup. Trouble is .... inductance ... coils are inductors and they tend to oppose high frequency sound. Sort of explains the reason why "hot" pickups are sometimes described as "dark" sounding. Installing a dummy coil to stop hum is a fine idea... it is the theoretical basis for the "Humbucker" pickup. Unless the dummy coil is affected by the string vibration directly it will be a completely passive component that does not generate any AC audio signal. All it can therefore do is attenuate the signal that is being generated by the pickups. Third understand that all generated signals also broadcast through the air a bit. Notice how the sound changes when you turn one way or the other while holding a guitar that is plugged in and humming. Shielding the guitar cavity usually solves the broadcast noise issues. SOOOOO....the trick is to attenuate the hum part of the signal without affecting the desired audio signal. This can be a bit tricky and it can involve a bit of math. The idea is to create a signal filter that allows all of the desired signals to pass and none of the noise. A coil works on magnetic principles. Any signal injected into a coil will cause a magnetic field to be generated around the coil. An AC signal will cause a magnetic field that fluctuates. Any other wiring near the fluctuating field will also have the signal "induced" into it. This is also true for wires that have AC signals in them. Shielded wires help prevent the signals from being superimposed on other wiring. Placing a dummy coil near a pickup will have two impacts on the signal...1. if the dummy is close enough, the magnetic field induced in the dummy will reinforce the pickup if it is "in-phase" or it will "buck" the pickup if it is "out-of-phase" with the pickup. In this case the phase refers to the magnetic field phase and it is entirely dependent on the placement of the dummy coil. Physically swapping the coil "end-for-end" with out changing the wiring will create a magnetic field that appears to have opposite polarity compared to the coil before swapping. 2. the signal itself will be attenuated in the higher frequencies due to the inductance of the added coil. High frequency attenuation isn't necessarily a bad thing..... cant hear above 20khz anyway so who cares if you are attenuating at 50khz and above. Trouble is that the hum is usually closer to an even multiple of 60hz. This is when we need to think of this stuff as a system that includes the guitar, the cable and the amplifier. This system will have resistance(R), inductance(L) and capacitance(C) distributed throughout. Tuning those property values to selectively eliminate the low end hum at 60Hz should be your goal. A small series capacitor might work better than a dummy coil in some cases. Capacitors operate almost backwards of a coil with respect to frequency. Capacitors tend to pass high frequency while attenuating low frequency. This is where the math will come in. There are many text books dealing with LCR type circuits. The formulas are not too difficult but understanding how your particular circuit operates with respect to the formula can be tricky. I recommend a bit of reading.
Just because you removed the inner magnet does not mean that it isn't behaving like a receiver for magnetism. By removing the magnets it will not pick much from the strings but more from the "electric" environment. If it just was the resistance you needed, you could have connected a resistor instead. So one way is right an the other not. It acts like a humbucker where you only have magnets on one coil. If you connect a humbucker out of phase with itself it will become a hum-generator. Cool anyway. I think I shall test it one my strat.
I think even though you haven't paid attention to polarity, it matters. I'm just curious what it would happen if you reverse polarity or flip your dummy coil up-down under the pickguard. Just my thoughts, it would be worth to make some experiment.
A friend of mine had a strat style guitar back in the day, can't remember the brand, maybe Valley Arts or Arbor or something like that. Anyway we were always talking about how quiet it was in between songs. So he let me loosen the pick guard and low and behold there was a forth pickup in there below the middle and neck pickup. It looked like it was done at the factory.
The problem with wiring a Strat with a 'Dummy coil' is that it has to be wired 'out of phase' to cancel the hum. This is okay if your Strat has all it's pick ups wired the same polarity. This isn't the case on any of my Strats. The middle pick up is reverse wound. On a 5 bladed switch in positions 2 and 4 ,it already acts like a humbucker. You have two pick ups wired in reverse to each other just the same. A dummy coil won't work on anything but positions 1 and 5. ALL wiring diagrams I have seen have a switch so you can use all positions. I also don't understand why you removed the non-magnetic pole pieces. They are ferrous and will increase inductance. The general answer to your question regarding the power of the 'Dummy coil' should ideally be half of what the pick up is. The larger the area, the less wire. Suhr do a trem spring plate cover with a flat coil on it. The problem is it still only works on old 3 bladed Strats(where all the pick-ups are wired the same) or on some cheap Squiers. This mod won't work on any of my Strats in the way it's done here.
The simplest way to test this is to open the electronics cavity and swap the wires. In 10 minutes you will have your answer. Ideally this works best with two pickups and you mount the coil between them like Alembic does. Since you are literally just going from one end of the coil wire to the other, there should not be an issue as to what wire goes where, but maybe the orientation of the dummy coil matters.
I came across this video last week and I was disturbed by the amount of rubbish some people have opined. So, let's get this straight once and for all: (1) if you are only connecting a coil (i.e. dummy coil without magnets) then it doesn't matter which wire end you connect. If you don't know why, go back to physics 101 and learn about the right hand-thumb rule. (2) I personally connected a 6.3kOhm dummy coil to the output jack of my Strat to test. My bridge pickup was 6.59kOhm and my neck pickup was 6.10kOhm. After connecting the dummy coil, ALL noise was gone, regardless of the pickup positions 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5. (3) Yes, there was a very and extremely, minor tone difference. The very upper presence range was slightly subdued. This is most likely because the added coil offers resistance via the cable which affects the tone slightly. Also, the dummy coil now acts as a treble-bleed. This is probably because the dummy coil was connected parallel and not in series as Woodeso did. (4) It appeared that the output of the pickup may have dropped, however, I did not measure this with a multi-meter. Conclusion: compared to DiMarzio's rail and stacked pickups, I prefer the sound of a dummy coil. I have ordered shielding paint and will shield the electronics cavity and connect a fully shielded dummy coil in series when I've got all the parts together. Thanks Woodeso for the great video!
Shielding does nothing. I went nuts on a guitar, copper foiled entire cavity, did star grounding, every thing. Total waste of time. Not even a slight improvement.
If you remove the magnets there is no longer a forward or reverse wound because there are no magnetic Poles. All you've done is created an inductor. The good news is you don't have to understand any of this. just keep doing things until the noise is reduced and call it a win
Why not add a small switch to easily bypass the dummy coil, this way you'd know right away if there's a difference. Mind you we didn't here the guitar without the dummy coil...
1) yes, the resistance matters. The less your components are matched, the less clean your noise cancelling will be. But there is no sudden "oh it doesn't work" resistance value. 2) when you install a dummy coil, you change the output impedance of the guitar. Wether this is also audible depends on what you connect your guitar to (e.g. very long cable runs or pedals with lower input impedance) and how exactly you wired the dummy coil. There is no general rule that says "it looses this much treble". It also depends on what your stock output impedance was to begin with. If you don't hear a thing in your setup, then all right :)
Give yourself a pat on the back, you are demostrating experimental electromechanical wiring by trial and error. This helps everyone watching because it can be used to solve basic noise issues without fuss. It occors a lot from schematic to final building that the results are not the ones expected, theory V practice. Keep up the good work.
on strats the lead and bridge are wound in the same direction the middel is wound in the opsite direction that why when you put the middel and bridge togather it cancels the hum also with the middel and neck togather but singel of any of the pickups they hum
if phase meant anything in tje dummy coil then hum would be louder in either position 3 or 1 and 5 following the logic of needing opposite winding to cancel hum out. it happens naturally in positions 2 and 4 so the middle pickup must be opposite wound or 2 and 4 would have louder hum according to said logic. it stands to reason that polarity and or phase mean nothing for the dummy coil since all positions have the same noise level.
Electrically there could be a change in tone, like Jimmi using a long coily cable with high resistance to get that warm sound. As far as frequency response, the coil shouldn't affect it without the magnets and then it would have to be placed near the strings to pick up the frequencies just near the pickup which you've selected, hence making it into a humbucker.
Thanks for sharing the dummy coil setup!!!!! What a kick ass mod! I now have 4 strats and have upgraded pups in all so now there's a purpose for the old pups!!!! Any tricks for removing glued magnets? Oh yeah you are correct by removing magnets you also remove polarity so leads mean nothing!
Hey awesome info, there is a little question. Does it matters if i use a middle pickup (reverse wound coil) or a common neck or bridge ("common" wound coil)? I mean, i don't want to damage a "normal wound" coil and then it doesn't even eliminates the hum because it had to be a reverse wound. hope you understand i don't speak english very often.
I own a 69 Stratocaster with original pickups. The 3 pickups are in phase. No phase inversion on the midlle pickup. So.. my question is will this dummy pickup modif stop the single coils noise for all the 5 positions ? And what would be the final wiring to achieve that on my guitar ? Thanks.
I just put one in a strat....it does make a difference. I have toggle switches....when all pickups are off you can hear the usual single coil hum.....as soon as I turn one on it goes quiet.....it gets a little more noisy for the mid and bridge pick up but still more quiet
There is no polarity to a guitar cable. There are however "directional" cables. These are cables with 2 twisted leads inside of a braided shield inside the cable. What makes them directional is that the shield is grounded on only one end of the cable. The only problem is that you run into differing opinions on which direction the cable should be used. Most seem to think that the end of the cable where the shield is grounded is the end that goes to the signal source. In the case of a guitar cable that would be at the guitar's output. There are some though that say the grounded shield end goes to the amp. I've experimented with a directional cable before and to be perfectly honest I could never hear a difference.
Was this issue ever definitively resolved? I've read the magnetic pickups all have to be standard wound. not RW/RP. And the only other thing to do is to make sure you dummy coil is slightly less k than your magnetic coils. Like if you put in a 5.0k dummy you should have 6.0k pickups or higher. Was the Hwy-1 middle pickup RW/RP? If that was the case that runs contrary to what this article says. Either way what you did in this video series worked and there was no treble cut. www.frettech.com/frettech/dummy/index.html
You have to position both Guitars an equal distance from the amplifiers transformer.… Otherwise the test does not work. The transformer is the source of the home… It works by way of electromagnetic radiation.
hi i have made the same mod to my strat and it works great so i thought ill swop the wires around and it does the same job. so it does not matter witch way you wire it it still cancels the hum so i would say great mod bro keep up the great vids regards davey from the u.k.
you're confusing polarity and PHASE !! polarity is for magnet.. but on coil induction.. the coil's orientation (Clockwise or Counter Clockwise) will determine the phase ! so.. the dummy coil isn't "just a piece of wire".. it's an electronic device called an inductor, that transform magnetic field into current proportionnaly to the number of "turns"... You can rotate a pickup it won't change phase.. but it you put it upside down, or reversing the winding direction.. you'll get a phase change. And having an out of phase coil is what hum cancelation is all about ! So yeah.. wire inversion matters a lot !
Here's what I'm really confused about... how does this not have a HUGE drop in volume and tone?? Like.. You're putting A TON of wire in between the volume pot and the pickup selector... This is just one of those "too good to be true" kind of things lol
Just tried a dummy coil, and see why it's not more popular. I used all same winds on pickups and an old dummy coil off a Fender powerhouse which read 6K ohm. The R must match so close to the pickup. It drops out much of the noise but at the expense of some sound, a little high end which was fine, but also output. It made my 6.7K bridge pickup sound anemic, the other pickups were better because they were closer to the dummy coil's R, I guess.. Overall, it was like I rolled down the volume knob a bit, a duller, weaker tone. Immediately, it reminded me of playing an HS2/HS3 Dimarzio. Just like those pickups, good if you pile on some gain, gets a smooth tone but for anything else, I think there's much better options.
Nelson! Two reasons I don't gig with strats: 1. Hum 2. Hum Gonna try out your solution. I'll post the results. Let me know if you still want a vid lesson, I'll be more than willing to oblige, I'm off this week.
Mike G Cheers Mike. I appreciate it. And the lessons. They're really good man. You should share that lesson and future ones with the community. I think you'll get a million hits:-)
Mike G Well, there are great noiseless pickups for strats (e.g. Dimarzio Area)... also, the dummy coil mod works just great as shown in this video. It is actually an old thing. Stevie Ray Vaughan had a dummy coil in his number one guitar.
It would possibly make a difference if it was in parallel with the pickups, but in the position it is wired in with no magnet or pole piece no difference. Still don't know how it works though Haha. The coil absorbs the hum!
Clever - but no - the coil with the wrappings still has inductance from the design aka size/height/windings, etc. of course there will be a phase issue. By your logic - because there is no magnet it will also not pick up flux changes. So how does it still work as a dummy coil if it only a 'cable' flipped 180 degrees? It will pickup atmospheric noise IN PHASE like any other pickup. Swap the wires, swap the phase. The magnet is only there to make the coil sensitive to flux changes induced by the nickel strings (magnetic 'sensible' metal). What the dummy coil is doing is using a 50/60 Hz STATIC wave with REVERSED phase to cancel-out the 50/60 Hz STATIC wave of noise/hum that is present in the regular pickups, flux changes or not (aka strings moving or not). Using it the wrong way around will actually increase the noise.
Why do I read so much about tone suck from these but I never hear it on your examples? Have you found a better method or is the tone suck just a rumor? I have a samick strat style from the 80’s I want to install one in, but #1 I have no spare pickups and no local repair places / music stores have any take-outs to sell me and #2 I’m concerned that the resistance drop will result in a weak crappy sound.
not a caable, its a coil ,it has inductance ,,,right hand rule,left hand rule ,,,try useing meter an screwdriver test ,to determine +/_ of coils ,wire out of phase or with polarities reversed ,mid pu on strat rw maybe wound backwards 4 humbuck ,or magnets reversed ,,,or polepices ,,, try miini toggle with on, series out ph,.off nonot,on in phase ,could even try it in external jiffy box ,guit cable to ,box wcoil/sw cable to amp
Ok let’s get to it, no hating here just want to learn even tho I know a lot that’s because I’m a master electrician and electronics institute grad so I know theory and other various training and always gathering knowledge where I can get it, what’s missing unless I missed it somewhere for me is the dc resistance of the pups already in the guitar and the dc resistance you used for your dummy coil and if it was reverse wound or not because there is a phase relationship related to all those things I don’t want to get too deep here so here what I did. I installed a 5.9k dummy pup in series from the switch to the pot just like you instructed by the way my pups already installed are 15k, the result was more noise. Unfortunately I didn’t check so see if pup I used to make into a dummy was reversed wound before I took the magnets out and yes there is a device called the magnetic polarity tester that will give you a indication if the pup is rw or not and also your cord analogy isn’t quiet right. Last thing it didn’t matter which of the wires I connected to the pot same more noisy either way. So what’s the resistance of your installed pups and the dummy coil?
Hi Woody, Just wondering, I am looking to fit a dummy pickup in my LP junior special double cut, it has awesome bareknuckles P90 pickups in it, (but yes the noise).Do I need to use a RW P90, or is it ok to use say a strat pickup instead? You see there are very few RW P90's one can buy cheaply, where as there are shitloads of cheap RW strat pickups out there
Thnx for posting this very interesting! Seems to me [not a big brain] David is correct. Remove the magnets [which have a polarity] and you remove the polarity issue. It would also seem to me that if you still have a hum issue after wiring in the dummy, the why not "reverse" the coil by reversing the position of the leads? Have not attempted yet so have no real world knowledge of the mod. The only issue is, does it cancel the hum while keeping the the highs? If yes all the theory really is a crock, eh?
Why don't you try an A/B test Record the guitar as it is, the flip the wires round and record it again, you could then listen to and compare the recordings to see if there's any difference The conventional wisdom seems to be to connect the start [ground] wire of the dummy coil to the switch and the finish [hot] wire to the volume, from what I've read one way should be quieter than the other with whichever way is quietest being the correct way round
Of course! I wouldn't see why it wouldn't work for a tele! Follow the same thing he did but with your tele, it's not any different (except for the guitar)
maybe just at a 7k or 10k Ohms wire wound resistor??? or get an old electronic contraption from the savation army..for electronics parts....There's shitload of INDUCTORS in old stereo. amps. Xover...ect Im pretty sure there's alot of filtering going on in those things...just saying How much you wanna bet,.,,a noise gate has a veriable inductor or wire wound resistor with a knob on it????
Hi +Woodeso's Guitar Mods .. Congrats for your videos. I installed a dummy coil in my guitar too. I have some comments to improve it: 1. The schematic you teach is not the best. You put the dummy coil between the switch and the volume pot, however this work good only when you have a master tone knob (as shown in the schematics you used). When you have separate tone knobs like most strats do, then you end up having a lot of noise when you roll off the tone. That happens because you are filtering just the signal from the pickup, but leaving unfiltered the noise from the dummy coil. The CORRECT way is to place the dummy coil in replace of the black wire that connects one side of the switch to the other (in case of the schematic). In the case of your switch, that would be pins 4 and 5. Then you can have a regular strat wiring with separate tone knobs with no noise when you roll off the tones. 2. I used a cheap chinese pickup as a dummy coil. I removed the ceramic magnet from the back and removed the pole pieces. These pole pieces are not magnetic. However, without the polepieces, the noise reduction was insignificant. But when I put the pole pieces back, then the dummy coil really worked. So, for dummy coils made from ceramic pickups, its better to leave the poles. For alnico pickups, you have no option. 3. You guitar don't have a RWRP middle pickup and, in this case, the dummy coil will work for all 5 positions. However, most Fender strats have a middle RWRP pickup and then the dummy coil will only work for positions 1 and 5. The other positions will be noisier. In this case, you need a DPDT switch or push-pull knob to enable/disable the dummy coil. 4. For those who have fender standard alnico pickups, you can undo the RWRP pickup just by reversing the pole pieces and the wire leads. However, this only works for those pickups that have a plastic bobin, otherwise you will damage you pickups. Hope these comments will help everybody.
@@illegallystalked3119 It's because the dummy coil worked good in all 5 positions. On strats that have a middle RWRP pickup, then the dummy coil will only suppress noise for positions 1 and 5. The other positions will be even noisier.
@@guilhermeruppert9662 im thinking bs. Because he has done it on several guitars, and never mentioned non rw pickup in middle on vids. I have not done it so i cant say for sure you are wrong, but getting guitar with 3 single coils all wound in same direction hasnt happened since the very early 3 way switch strats that i know of.
bs.? A LOT of current guitars are made non-RWRP based onvintage designs... fender pickups such as CS69 and 57/62 are non-Rwrp too. You are correct that stock squiers are usually rwrp. But based on the actual sound of the video is is non-rwrp for sure. I have done this dummy-coil mod twice in my strats in the past and I know what I am talking about. Its just pure physics.
@@guilhermeruppert9662 in my 45 years of playing strat style guitars i have never played one with anything but rw on middle position. Yes the early early strats had a 3 way switch so was no need for rw middle pickup. But if you say you did it, well i javent so guess you win. I would think this youtuber would of made that point clear if in fact the middle pup was rw though.
I think that the confusion lays with how signal and mains hum are effected by coils. I suspect the dummy coil is acting like an RF choke and preventing the 60hz noise travelling any further along the wire. I would be careful where you install the dummy coil as the 60hz hum could be re-induced back into the circuit through other wires. When a dummy coil is placed directly under a pickup as in those which are called silent pickups, the magnetic field effects it so it needs then to be wound out of phase with the other as in a humbucker.
If the whole thing boils down to adding resistance, then why not measure the resistance from one of the pickup leads to the other and instead of using an old pickup just insert a resistor? I'm just curious because I want to get rid of the hum on my strat.
I was thinking of the samething....a resistor....like those WIRE WOUND ceramic block resistors....or just wire wound resistors You can get those for 50 cent or $1...they're actaully just pennies... But at what Ohms and watts....they're smaller... this way to can just wire a resistor to each pick up.... The dummy coil is basically an INDUCTOR. Inductor also acts as a filter.... so dose capacitors.
+Tom Drake a coil is like an antenna... well it IS an antenna :-) So you want your noise sensing antenna (dummy coil) to pick up the same exact noise that your main antennas (pickups) pick up. Its like when you have large hum picked up by your single coil guitar, but when you turn 45-90 degrees its much lower. if your dummy coil won't turn with you, it will continue to pickup the large hum source and will induce it to your signal.
Woodeso, how about you place share where you got the schematic for the dummy coil, then everybody that has an opinion/view can look for themselves....just sayin'
Woody, It doesn't matter how the pickup is wired. As long as that 60hz is sent to ground away from the output, you're fine. Actually you're creating a filter that gets grounded immediately and doesn't get to the amplified section. You trapping the 60 he hum and sending it to ground where it will never be seen by the amplifiers preamp section, and because of that it won't pass through the amplifier section. It works. Simply, effectively, it works. It doesn't even have to be done on a old pick up, it can be done with just a plain coil and it would work just as well.
Actually, you do seem to be misunderstanding at least a couple of things. First off, switching your guitar cable around, like that, doesn't change a thing, electrically speaking. It's not changing the polarity, so it's not changing the phase of anything. On the other hand, switching around the leads on your dummy coil would make a difference. You mention something about it not making a lick of difference because the dummy coil doesn't have a magnet. Well, you're wrong. On a normal pickup you need the magnet for the string to create a signal, because the string doesn't have a voltage to it. The string has to interact with the magnet and coil to create a signal. This isn't so, concerning the 60 cycle electromagnetic waves that create that annoying hum. They don't need a magnet to create that hum. Do you know anything about transformers? Just think of whatever is generating those 60 cycle electromagnetic waves, as the primary winding, and think of the dummy coil as the secondary winding. Switching around the leads on the secondary of a transformer would reverse the phase of the output voltage, wouldn't it? It's the same with your dummy coil. Also, you say that it doesn't seem to change the tone. Well, it's quite possible that it's not noticeable. This doesn't change the fact that your dummy coil not only has resistance, but inductance, as well. I don't know how you wired-in your dummy coil, but it could affect the tone in different ways, depending on how it's connected. If you wired it in series, it might act like the choke in a typical speaker crossover network. In that case, it might subdue some of the highs. On the other hand, If you wired it in parallel, it could actually bring out some highs. Unfortunately, impedance also plays a part, so the extra loading-down of your amplifier input could also adversely affect your tone. All this said, if you happen to have that dummy coil wired in correctly, and it doesn't make the guitar sound bad, then more power to ya. In other words... If it works, it works...
I don't think there is any noticeable change in tone in a dummy coil, as long as there is nasty hum......I'm happy. The overall science of the schematics......... Zzzzzzzzzzz. Yawn.....if it works, its good!!! Good video
Dude, I love your openness to show your process. It really helps figuring things out.
It does matter which direction you wire the coil. You're confusing polarity with phase. You also want the coils to be matches as closely as possible. The hum is induced equally in both coils. as they are in series, you want the signal of the pickup and coil to be opposite polarity from each other. The 60hz hum will be canceled (or bucked) but since only one coil has pole pieces that can pick up string vibration, there is no string signal in the dummy coil to cancel. if you have pick up and dummy in the same polarity and in series, the hum will actally get louder. You are right about the guitar cable not making a difference which way it's plugged in, but it's not actually analogous to the coils.
Sorry. opposite phase, not polarity.
No magnet. No phase. Try it or shut up
It doesn't matter without a magnet. It's a straight piece of wire. It's like putting in a 10 inch piece of wire instead of a 3 inch piece from the switch to the volume pot. It can pick up noise because it's so long and not shielded but I see he solved that problem in a later version.....he made a grounding cage around the dummy coil.
Do you wire the dummy coil "in series" or In parallel? What grounding cage do you have to use to put the dummy coil in?How does the dummy coil bucks cancels the hum noises when its just a series coil of wire in series with the pickup?When you put the dummy coil "in parallel" the DC resistance goes from 6K to 3K and the volume drops in half.
@2 Theworst The dummy coil is wired out of phase with the pick-up. 60 cycle hum signal in the dummy would be out of phase with the 60 cycle induce into the pick-up, just like a humbucker. It would make a poor high-pass filter, because you would have to shunt the coil to ground to use it as a high pass. Coils increase in impedance (reactance) as frequency goes up. Capacitors decrease as the frequency goes up.
If it works and it seems to be and your happy with the sound just keep doing what your doing
late to the party, but indeed, wiring direction does make a difference when it comes to coils (google for 'solenoid clockwise anticlockwise' to understand why : the induced current's polarity depends on the coil direction, as simple as that)... also, for best hum canceling effect, you clearly shouldn't shield your dummy coil...its purpose is to pickup as much noise as your regular pickups so that the two coils (dummy and actual pickup) end up canceling each other (just like in an humbucker).
Without a magnet inside the coil the wiring direction doesn't matter
If you face the equator, you will get hum. But a little lemon juice rubbed on the headstock will fix that problem.
Reversing the cord won't change polarity. It's always tip to tip, sleeve to sleeve connection. But try to reverse those connections, or inside the guitar jack swap ground and 'hot' wires and you 'll have a hell of noise. Not from a polarity or phase problem, but because the guitar will not be grounded at all and the guitar+cord will work as a big antenna with wich you can even receive and hear some radio signal (no kidding: in fact those radio signals are rare nowadays. Taxi, police etc but they use cell phone today ).
The dummy coil is like the second coil in a humbucker. It must generate a signal in antiphase of the pickup when receiving electromagnetic signal (the noise) . What's makes a difference with a humbucker is that there is no magnetic (not electromagnetic) phenomenom involved. In the humbucker the two coil must be reversed wound from each other (as they are electrically in phase) to cancel the electromagnetic noise AND have magnets of opposite direction to generate signals (from magnetic disturbance by the strings) wich are in phase (else it will be a Humbucker and a Soundbucker with no signal at all).
Hence the dummy coil may be wound in either direction, but there will only one way to wire it (for the sake of phase). One will work (no hum) and the other not (more hum). Just try and find the good one, no rocket science.
There is left to manage the middle pickup (reverse wound but electrically in phase with the other two, hence the need to change phase of the dummy coil in position 3 ), and the 2 and 4 position where the d. coil is of no use (electromagnetic noise already cancelled) but moreover will had noise (the electromagnetic induced noise it makes have nothing to be cancelled with). A switch may be used to put the dummy out for those positions, but the 3 will retain it's original hum.
Sorry for length and weird english as i'm no native speaker.
+ant Sor Then how was his strat hum-free in all 5 positions? I'd really like to find out, I might try this mod myself. I have one strat full of grounded aluminium foil which made the guitar noise-free, but a dummy coil might be an easier solution.
Not easier.. my strats are super silent with just a shield (kitchen aluminium) and a properly grounded circuit.
And think of that : in order to work a dummy coil must be unshielded.... another problem.
+Knight Solaire Because what you're doing IF you have the phase wrong (I dunno) is increasing capacitance and resistance, which takes out your super high end, where the hiss is. It's similar, but not the same (because of capacitance, mainly) as turning down tone, which also kills noise to some extent. It's mostly analogous to running a 100+ yard cable. Hendrix experimented with just that.
Knight Solaire i tried that aluminum foil shielding stuff, did nothing. wish o hadnt wasted the time.
Switching the leads on the pickup would (electrically) reverse the windings of the coil, so it does matter. You coincidentally wired it the correct way.
Taking off the magnet ensures that you won't go out of phase.
what if I turn a humbucker pick up to a dummy coil? I can't find a single coil magnet and also I am afraid to split them because I have break one humbucker already. Sorry rural area guy here.
@@paucosmos9050 If I understand correctly, you want to use a humbucker as a dummy coil to cancel the noise of a single coil?
Yes exactly? Sounds stupid probably but I am dreaming of living a noise-free/less life with my guitar? @@brainstewX
yeah is bad?@@brainstewX
It wouldn't be effective. With a humbucker as a dummy, you will have three coils total, so one of the coils isn't going to get canceled. A dummy coil also has to be basically the same shape and size and as the coil it's canceling, but with the windings reversed.
When you have a coil, and there are magnets affecting it, such as, in an electric motor, the polarity- can make a difference in the speed of the armature. I learned this in the early 60's, when I was rewinding small Mabuchi motors for slot cars. Once the magnets are removed, theoretically, there is simply a coil of wire without polarity. When you add it into a circuit with another coil, as in a guitar pickup, the direction does matter, as it can affect the phasing of the pickup. If it is added like in the dummy coil function, it affects all the settings. If there is no phase cancellation, (there shouldn't be) or reduction in levels in all switch positions, then, in essence, it is wired correctly. The only way to see if it matters, is to simply reverse the leads on the dummy coil. If it changes, and to what degree. I'm a Luthier, and repairman. I have seen this done from the Fender factory- - and have the factory diagrams to show the correct wiring... Fender- indeed, wired some models of Strats with dummy coils.
Hi Nelson. I wouldn't worry too much about the doubters, you've proven that the modifications with adding a dummy coil gets rid of the noise. Even Stevie Ray Vaughan's strats had dummy coil's installed by his guitar tech Rene. All the information is out there if anybody wants to have a go.
Just Google 'Dummy Pickup Coils for Single Coil Powered Guitars' and you will find all the information and diagrams of what you need to do.
Keep up the good work Nelson.
Only 1 had a dummy. Was the one with the lipstick tube pickups i believe. His number 1 had no dummy coil.
@4:20 Woodeso's Guitar Mods Yes your logic is flawed. :-)
You are misunderstanding how polarity works. Using one end vs. the other of a cable does not switch polarity. If you wanted to switch polarity in a cable you would disassemble one end of the cable and swap the wire that was going to the tip of the jack to the shield, and the shield wire to the tip. This would make a lot more buzz.
In a coil polarity is determined by looking at the wind direction, (counter)clockwise looking from the top, and the start and end of the wire. This absolutely does make a difference in the polarity of both the signal and noise that the coil picks up.
Also, you need to look up how humbuckers work....
The two coils both pick up the same noise, but because they are wired reverse polarity the noise from one cancels the noise from the other. This would cancel most of the tone they pick up from the stings, but the magnets are also reversed, so the signals from the stings are already reverse polarity, so when they get added together in reverse they don't cancel, they add.
A dummy coil does the same thing, except that because it has no magnet it isn't picking up much of anything from the strings. So if you really want it to be humbucking it will only work when connected in reverse polarity with reference to the pickup(s) you have selected.
As to affecting the tone: the extra windings of the dummy will "load" the other pickup(s), this may or may not have a noticeable effect. [You could experiment with wiring a lower value dummy in series instead of parallel.]
The impedance value of the dummy should match the other pickups for best hum cancellation and less parallel loading.
*UPDATE* Just rewatched your original videos. you are wiring the coil in series.
This will block some high frequencies from passing. The smaller the coil value the less highs will be rolled off, but also the less effective hum cancellation.
In cases such as yours I defer to the cardinal rule of music/audio:
"If it sounds good, it is good!"
Your dummy coil needs to be wound in the opposite direction of the pickups you are trying to quiet down. (In this case it’s the bridge and or the neck in positions 1&3 or 1&5 depending on the type of switch) If it’s not you will continue to have hum. Polarity has nothing to do with it, as the magnets have been removed
He clearly proved thats not true.
@@illegallystalked3119 no he didn't.
or you can swap the wires of the coil, reversing the direction of flow.
It makes sense to me... Once the magnets are out, it's just a coil. If there was some strange difference, then when you secured the dummy coil into the body it would "change" depending on which direction you place it inside the body cavity. If it works as just a coil, then what is the technical issue? I like it when things like this simply work... Maybe It defies some principle, but it works!!!! Kudos dude!
ok I'll also throw in my 2 cents. Direction does matter. The way you installed the dummy coil was in series and direction matters, To achieve hum cancelling the dummy needs to be RW to the pickups and if your middle pup is RWRP then some kind of switch will be needed to remove the dummy coil in pos 2 and 4, The only way you get hum cancelling in all 5 pos is if your middle pup is not rwrp, You do loose some highs but its very small but can be noticeable depending on your equipment, also your dummy coil reduces more hum the closer it gets in resistance to the original pups but above 70% is unnoticeable. I like to use HB coils because they are smaller and work perfectly. If you reverse your leads and still have no hum then I have no explanation because it has never worked that way for me,
Scott lajoie one more thing while I am thinking about it the loss of treble is way more noticeable the higher kohms your pickups are.
Very impressive. I need to do this to all my strats! THANK you!
In order to assess this we can ignore guitars for the moment and work with the electronics. We are essentially talking about two inductors joined in series . Lets assume they are identical inductors . One inductor has a magnetic core and the other has also a core but it is air . The model for the magnetic inductor can be modelled as an audible source ( guitar strings ) plus an inductor in series . So now we have a sound source , an inductor representing the pickup connected to another identical inductor which represents the inline empty coil. So if we assume that noise hum has capacitively coupled onto this circuit the basic question becomes if we swap the polarity of one inductor will this affect the circuit in any way ? The inductors a. Non polarity rated and if reversed connected will produce or accept the opposite magnetic field. What we desire is that both coils have hum induced in them and cancel out with the non common audio passing through. The dummy coil is best orientated
Hi Nelson you are absolutely right. Pickups only have a polarity to ensure they are wired in phase correctly. If it's just a coil without magnetic pole pieces then it makes zero difference which ends you use for the input and output of the dummy cool. Nice videos by the way and thanks for sharing your ideas!
Without being a wizard of electronics i do know why it works
The loop acts as an antenna just like the pickup, and picks up about the same electronical noise
When added to the signal it cancels out the noise already present from the pickup
But if the phase is reversed it will add to the signal instead
Top facing clockwise vs top facing counter clockwise will make a difference. You can flip this by either reversing the leads or physically flipping the dummy coil.
I tested this by wiring a dummy coil into the circuit with long wires so I could hold the coil and move it around freely. I could rotate it around in the air and observe very dramatic changes in noise coming through the amp.
Why does this happen? Couldn't tell ya, but yes the direction a coil faces does have an effect.
Hello Nelson,thought I would toss out a couple thoughts on electronic gizmo stuff. First understand that hum is usually a product of the amp and the guitar and the guitar cable together. Different amps may respond differently to guitar based hum cancelling efforts. Most common hum source is the heater circuit in tube amps. The heater winding is usually not referenced to ground in older amps and this allows the heater circuit to "float" up to the point that it can interfere with the audio circuits. Second understand that the pickups in a guitar are essentially AC power sources when the strings are vibrating. The impedance (resistance) of the coil is an indication of how much wire is wound into the coil. More wire = more impedance which in theory is more signal coming from the pickup. Trouble is .... inductance ... coils are inductors and they tend to oppose high frequency sound. Sort of explains the reason why "hot" pickups are sometimes described as "dark" sounding. Installing a dummy coil to stop hum is a fine idea... it is the theoretical basis for the "Humbucker" pickup. Unless the dummy coil is affected by the string vibration directly it will be a completely passive component that does not generate any AC audio signal. All it can therefore do is attenuate the signal that is being generated by the pickups. Third understand that all generated signals also broadcast through the air a bit. Notice how the sound changes when you turn one way or the other while holding a guitar that is plugged in and humming. Shielding the guitar cavity usually solves the broadcast noise issues. SOOOOO....the trick is to attenuate the hum part of the signal without affecting the desired audio signal. This can be a bit tricky and it can involve a bit of math. The idea is to create a signal filter that allows all of the desired signals to pass and none of the noise. A coil works on magnetic principles. Any signal injected into a coil will cause a magnetic field to be generated around the coil. An AC signal will cause a magnetic field that fluctuates. Any other wiring near the fluctuating field will also have the signal "induced" into it. This is also true for wires that have AC signals in them. Shielded wires help prevent the signals from being superimposed on other wiring. Placing a dummy coil near a pickup will have two impacts on the signal...1. if the dummy is close enough, the magnetic field induced in the dummy will reinforce the pickup if it is "in-phase" or it will "buck" the pickup if it is "out-of-phase" with the pickup. In this case the phase refers to the magnetic field phase and it is entirely dependent on the placement of the dummy coil. Physically swapping the coil "end-for-end" with out changing the wiring will create a magnetic field that appears to have opposite polarity compared to the coil before swapping. 2. the signal itself will be attenuated in the higher frequencies due to the inductance of the added coil. High frequency attenuation isn't necessarily a bad thing..... cant hear above 20khz anyway so who cares if you are attenuating at 50khz and above. Trouble is that the hum is usually closer to an even multiple of 60hz. This is when we need to think of this stuff as a system that includes the guitar, the cable and the amplifier. This system will have resistance(R), inductance(L) and capacitance(C) distributed throughout. Tuning those property values to selectively eliminate the low end hum at 60Hz should be your goal. A small series capacitor might work better than a dummy coil in some cases. Capacitors operate almost backwards of a coil with respect to frequency. Capacitors tend to pass high frequency while attenuating low frequency. This is where the math will come in. There are many text books dealing with LCR type circuits. The formulas are not too difficult but understanding how your particular circuit operates with respect to the formula can be tricky. I recommend a bit of reading.
Just because you removed the inner magnet does not mean that it isn't behaving like a receiver for magnetism.
By removing the magnets it will not pick much from the strings but more from the "electric" environment.
If it just was the resistance you needed, you could have connected a resistor instead.
So one way is right an the other not.
It acts like a humbucker where you only have magnets on one coil.
If you connect a humbucker out of phase with itself it will become a hum-generator.
Cool anyway.
I think I shall test it one my strat.
I think even though you haven't paid attention to polarity, it matters. I'm just curious what it would happen if you reverse polarity or flip your dummy coil up-down under the pickguard. Just my thoughts, it would be worth to make some experiment.
A friend of mine had a strat style guitar back in the day, can't remember the brand, maybe Valley Arts or Arbor or something like that. Anyway we were always talking about how quiet it was in between songs. So he let me loosen the pick guard and low and behold there was a forth pickup in there below the middle and neck pickup. It looked like it was done at the factory.
The problem with wiring a Strat with a 'Dummy coil' is that it has to be wired 'out of phase' to cancel the hum. This is okay if your Strat has all it's pick ups wired the same polarity. This isn't the case on any of my Strats. The middle pick up is reverse wound. On a 5 bladed switch in positions 2 and 4 ,it already acts like a humbucker. You have two pick ups wired in reverse to each other just the same. A dummy coil won't work on anything but positions 1 and 5. ALL wiring diagrams I have seen have a switch so you can use all positions. I also don't understand why you removed the non-magnetic pole pieces. They are ferrous and will increase inductance. The general answer to your question regarding the power of the 'Dummy coil' should ideally be half of what the pick up is. The larger the area, the less wire. Suhr do a trem spring plate cover with a flat coil on it. The problem is it still only works on old 3 bladed Strats(where all the pick-ups are wired the same) or on some cheap Squiers. This mod won't work on any of my Strats in the way it's done here.
because reverse wind matters, reverse polarity also makes a humbucker. That's how I understand it.
The simplest way to test this is to open the electronics cavity and swap the wires. In 10 minutes you will have your answer. Ideally this works best with two pickups and you mount the coil between them like Alembic does. Since you are literally just going from one end of the coil wire to the other, there should not be an issue as to what wire goes where, but maybe the orientation of the dummy coil matters.
I think you got right on, man just to many haters and booksmart people, that don't have the hands on experience you got, ;) ;) :)
I came across this video last week and I was disturbed by the amount of rubbish some people have opined. So, let's get this straight once and for all: (1) if you are only connecting a coil (i.e. dummy coil without magnets) then it doesn't matter which wire end you connect. If you don't know why, go back to physics 101 and learn about the right hand-thumb rule. (2) I personally connected a 6.3kOhm dummy coil to the output jack of my Strat to test. My bridge pickup was 6.59kOhm and my neck pickup was 6.10kOhm. After connecting the dummy coil, ALL noise was gone, regardless of the pickup positions 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5. (3) Yes, there was a very and extremely, minor tone difference. The very upper presence range was slightly subdued. This is most likely because the added coil offers resistance via the cable which affects the tone slightly. Also, the dummy coil now acts as a treble-bleed. This is probably because the dummy coil was connected parallel and not in series as Woodeso did. (4) It appeared that the output of the pickup may have dropped, however, I did not measure this with a multi-meter. Conclusion: compared to DiMarzio's rail and stacked pickups, I prefer the sound of a dummy coil. I have ordered shielding paint and will shield the electronics cavity and connect a fully shielded dummy coil in series when I've got all the parts together. Thanks Woodeso for the great video!
Shielding does nothing. I went nuts on a guitar, copper foiled entire cavity, did star grounding, every thing. Total waste of time. Not even a slight improvement.
If you remove the magnets there is no longer a forward or reverse wound because there are no magnetic Poles. All you've done is created an inductor. The good news is you don't have to understand any of this. just keep doing things until the noise is reduced and call it a win
Why not add a small switch to easily bypass the dummy coil, this way you'd know right away if there's a difference. Mind you we didn't here the guitar without the dummy coil...
1) yes, the resistance matters. The less your components are matched, the less clean your noise cancelling will be. But there is no sudden "oh it doesn't work" resistance value.
2) when you install a dummy coil, you change the output impedance of the guitar. Wether this is also audible depends on what you connect your guitar to (e.g. very long cable runs or pedals with lower input impedance) and how exactly you wired the dummy coil. There is no general rule that says "it looses this much treble". It also depends on what your stock output impedance was to begin with. If you don't hear a thing in your setup, then all right :)
Give yourself a pat on the back, you are demostrating experimental electromechanical wiring by trial and error. This helps everyone watching because it can be used to solve basic noise issues without fuss. It occors a lot from schematic to final building that the results are not the ones expected, theory V practice. Keep up the good work.
on strats the lead and bridge are wound in the same direction the middel is wound in the opsite direction that why when you put the middel and bridge togather it cancels the hum also with the middel and neck togather but singel of any of the pickups they hum
if phase meant anything in tje dummy coil then hum would be louder in either position 3 or 1 and 5 following the logic of needing opposite winding to cancel hum out. it happens naturally in positions 2 and 4 so the middle pickup must be opposite wound or 2 and 4 would have louder hum according to said logic. it stands to reason that polarity and or phase mean nothing for the dummy coil since all positions have the same noise level.
Electrically there could be a change in tone, like Jimmi using a long coily cable with high resistance to get that warm sound. As far as frequency response, the coil shouldn't affect it without the magnets and then it would have to be placed near the strings to pick up the frequencies just near the pickup which you've selected, hence making it into a humbucker.
Thanks for sharing the dummy coil setup!!!!! What a kick ass mod! I now have 4 strats and have upgraded pups in all so now there's a purpose for the old pups!!!! Any tricks for removing glued magnets? Oh yeah you are correct by removing magnets you also remove polarity so leads mean nothing!
this is a common mod ididn't see the post that states you did something wrong but over the years i have witnessed it done at least four times
Hey awesome info, there is a little question. Does it matters if i use a middle pickup (reverse wound coil) or a common neck or bridge ("common" wound coil)?
I mean, i don't want to damage a "normal wound" coil and then it doesn't even eliminates the hum because it had to be a reverse wound. hope you understand i don't speak english very often.
I own a 69 Stratocaster with original pickups.
The 3 pickups are in phase. No phase inversion on the midlle pickup.
So.. my question is will this dummy pickup modif stop
the single coils noise for all the 5 positions ?
And what would be the final wiring to achieve that on my guitar ?
Thanks.
I just put one in a strat....it does make a difference. I have toggle switches....when all pickups are off you can hear the usual single coil hum.....as soon as I turn one on it goes quiet.....it gets a little more noisy for the mid and bridge pick up but still more quiet
There is no polarity to a guitar cable. There are however "directional" cables. These are cables with 2 twisted leads inside of a braided shield inside the cable. What makes them directional is that the shield is grounded on only one end of the cable. The only problem is that you run into differing opinions on which direction the cable should be used. Most seem to think that the end of the cable where the shield is grounded is the end that goes to the signal source. In the case of a guitar cable that would be at the guitar's output. There are some though that say the grounded shield end goes to the amp. I've experimented with a directional cable before and to be perfectly honest I could never hear a difference.
Was this issue ever definitively resolved? I've read the magnetic pickups all have to be standard wound. not RW/RP. And the only other thing to do is to make sure you dummy coil is slightly less k than your magnetic coils. Like if you put in a 5.0k dummy you should have 6.0k pickups or higher. Was the Hwy-1 middle pickup RW/RP? If that was the case that runs contrary to what this article says. Either way what you did in this video series worked and there was no treble cut. www.frettech.com/frettech/dummy/index.html
You have to position both Guitars an equal distance from the amplifiers transformer.… Otherwise the test does not work. The transformer is the source of the home… It works by way of electromagnetic radiation.
does the dummy coil have to be the shape of a pickup..or could you just have a round coil with the same number of wraps?
hi i have made the same mod to my strat and it works great so i thought ill swop the wires around and it does the same job. so it does not matter witch way you wire it
it still cancels the hum so i would say great mod bro keep up the great vids regards
davey from the u.k.
It doesn't matter at all, you did great!
you're confusing polarity and PHASE !! polarity is for magnet.. but on coil induction.. the coil's orientation (Clockwise or Counter Clockwise) will determine the phase ! so.. the dummy coil isn't "just a piece of wire".. it's an electronic device called an inductor, that transform magnetic field into current proportionnaly to the number of "turns"... You can rotate a pickup it won't change phase.. but it you put it upside down, or reversing the winding direction.. you'll get a phase change.
And having an out of phase coil is what hum cancelation is all about !
So yeah.. wire inversion matters a lot !
Dummy coil is acting as an HF filter! Only difference is possibly a phase shift!
Here's what I'm really confused about... how does this not have a HUGE drop in volume and tone?? Like.. You're putting A TON of wire in between the volume pot and the pickup selector... This is just one of those "too good to be true" kind of things lol
Just tried a dummy coil, and see why it's not more popular. I used all same winds on pickups and an old dummy coil off a Fender powerhouse which read 6K ohm. The R must match so close to the pickup. It drops out much of the noise but at the expense of some sound, a little high end which was fine, but also output. It made my 6.7K bridge pickup sound anemic, the other pickups were better because they were closer to the dummy coil's R, I guess.. Overall, it was like I rolled down the volume knob a bit, a duller, weaker tone. Immediately, it reminded me of playing an HS2/HS3 Dimarzio. Just like those pickups, good if you pile on some gain, gets a smooth tone but for anything else, I think there's much better options.
I hope the other option isn't noiseless
Not sure if you got a satisfactory reply, but thre were several comments that answwd correctly, like jgrimsley2000. He is correct.
Nelson! Two reasons I don't gig with strats:
1. Hum
2. Hum
Gonna try out your solution.
I'll post the results. Let me know if you still want a vid lesson, I'll be more than willing to oblige, I'm off this week.
Mike G Cheers Mike. I appreciate it. And the lessons. They're really good man. You should share that lesson and future ones with the community. I think you'll get a million hits:-)
Mike G Well, there are great noiseless pickups for strats (e.g. Dimarzio Area)... also, the dummy coil mod works just great as shown in this video. It is actually an old thing. Stevie Ray Vaughan had a dummy coil in his number one guitar.
*****
Thanks for all that nineball! I sorted out the hum and sold it haha. I love the look of strats but i find them a pig to play.
+Mike G did you use a reverse wound coil or non? and did it work in pos 2 and 4 as well? cheers!
Bad Motivator I think I put a dummy coil in there. I've got a strat now that I use regularly and I put a dummy coil in that.
The characteristic of a COIL is to oppose CHANGE in Current. It may be the cause to lower or isolate the NOISE which is part of the SIGNAL.
It would possibly make a difference if it was in parallel with the pickups, but in the position it is wired in with no magnet or pole piece no difference. Still don't know how it works though Haha. The coil absorbs the hum!
Clever - but no - the coil with the wrappings still has inductance from the design aka size/height/windings, etc. of course there will be a phase issue.
By your logic - because there is no magnet it will also not pick up flux changes. So how does it still work as a dummy coil if it only a 'cable' flipped 180 degrees?
It will pickup atmospheric noise IN PHASE like any other pickup. Swap the wires, swap the phase. The magnet is only there to make the coil sensitive to flux changes induced by the nickel strings (magnetic 'sensible' metal).
What the dummy coil is doing is using a 50/60 Hz STATIC wave with REVERSED phase to cancel-out the 50/60 Hz STATIC wave of noise/hum that is present in the regular pickups, flux changes or not (aka strings moving or not).
Using it the wrong way around will actually increase the noise.
Why do I read so much about tone suck from these but I never hear it on your examples? Have you found a better method or is the tone suck just a rumor? I have a samick strat style from the 80’s I want to install one in, but #1 I have no spare pickups and no local repair places / music stores have any take-outs to sell me and #2 I’m concerned that the resistance drop will result in a weak crappy sound.
Does the dummy coil need to be in the guitar? Can it be at the amp or just in the cable itself, like an adapter?
not a caable, its a coil ,it has inductance ,,,right hand rule,left hand rule ,,,try useing meter an screwdriver test ,to determine +/_ of coils ,wire out of phase or with polarities reversed ,mid pu on strat rw maybe wound backwards 4 humbuck ,or magnets reversed ,,,or polepices ,,, try miini toggle with on, series out ph,.off nonot,on in phase ,could even try it in external jiffy box ,guit cable to ,box wcoil/sw cable to amp
Ok let’s get to it, no hating here just want to learn even tho I know a lot that’s because I’m a master electrician and electronics institute grad so I know theory and other various training and always gathering knowledge where I can get it, what’s missing unless I missed it somewhere for me is the dc resistance of the pups already in the guitar and the dc resistance you used for your dummy coil and if it was reverse wound or not because there is a phase relationship related to all those things I don’t want to get too deep here so here what I did. I installed a 5.9k dummy pup in series from the switch to the pot just like you instructed by the way my pups already installed are 15k, the result was more noise. Unfortunately I didn’t check so see if pup I used to make into a dummy was reversed wound before I took the magnets out and yes there is a device called the magnetic polarity tester that will give you a indication if the pup is rw or not and also your cord analogy isn’t quiet right. Last thing it didn’t matter which of the wires I connected to the pot same more noisy either way. So what’s the resistance of your installed pups and the dummy coil?
Hi Woody, Just wondering, I am looking to fit a dummy pickup in my LP junior special double cut, it has awesome bareknuckles P90 pickups in it, (but yes the noise).Do I need to use a RW P90, or is it ok to use say a strat pickup instead? You see there are very few RW P90's one can buy cheaply, where as there are shitloads of cheap RW strat pickups out there
Thnx for posting this very interesting! Seems to me [not a big brain] David is correct. Remove the magnets [which have a polarity] and you remove the polarity issue. It would also seem to me that if you still have a hum issue after wiring in the dummy, the why not "reverse" the coil by reversing the position of the leads? Have not attempted yet so have no real world knowledge of the mod.
The only issue is, does it cancel the hum while keeping the the highs? If yes all the theory really is a crock, eh?
I have a MIM Fender Powerhouse Strat with a factory dummy coil. Maybe you can find the wiring for it online.
Why don't you try an A/B test
Record the guitar as it is, the flip the wires round and record it again, you could then listen to and compare the recordings to see if there's any difference
The conventional wisdom seems to be to connect the start [ground] wire of the dummy coil to the switch and the finish [hot] wire to the volume, from what I've read one way should be quieter than the other with whichever way is quietest being the correct way round
if wasn't sure if there was a tonal loss I'd wire it to a switch and do an a/ b test .
does it need to be a coil or can you wire in a regular resistor to get the same effect
I need this in my tele... can it be done?
Of course! I wouldn't see why it wouldn't work for a tele! Follow the same thing he did but with your tele, it's not any different (except for the guitar)
sorry auto correct strikes again. I think it was cool that you shared this idea.
there might be some tonal difference in clean tone?
Your schematic link does not work anymore.. Please post a working one. Thanks !
I got an old humbucker pickups with a working 4 k ohm coil. Can i use that with single coil strat pickup to reduce hum ?
maybe just at a 7k or 10k Ohms wire wound resistor???
or get an old electronic contraption from the savation army..for electronics parts....There's shitload of INDUCTORS in old stereo. amps. Xover...ect
Im pretty sure there's alot of filtering going on in those things...just saying
How much you wanna bet,.,,a noise gate has a veriable inductor or wire wound resistor with a knob on it????
Hi +Woodeso's Guitar Mods .. Congrats for your videos. I installed a dummy coil in my guitar too. I have some comments to improve it:
1. The schematic you teach is not the best. You put the dummy coil between the switch and the volume pot, however this work good only when you have a master tone knob (as shown in the schematics you used). When you have separate tone knobs like most strats do, then you end up having a lot of noise when you roll off the tone. That happens because you are filtering just the signal from the pickup, but leaving unfiltered the noise from the dummy coil. The CORRECT way is to place the dummy coil in replace of the black wire that connects one side of the switch to the other (in case of the schematic). In the case of your switch, that would be pins 4 and 5. Then you can have a regular strat wiring with separate tone knobs with no noise when you roll off the tones.
2. I used a cheap chinese pickup as a dummy coil. I removed the ceramic magnet from the back and removed the pole pieces. These pole pieces are not magnetic. However, without the polepieces, the noise reduction was insignificant. But when I put the pole pieces back, then the dummy coil really worked. So, for dummy coils made from ceramic pickups, its better to leave the poles. For alnico pickups, you have no option.
3. You guitar don't have a RWRP middle pickup and, in this case, the dummy coil will work for all 5 positions. However, most Fender strats have a middle RWRP pickup and then the dummy coil will only work for positions 1 and 5. The other positions will be noisier. In this case, you need a DPDT switch or push-pull knob to enable/disable the dummy coil.
4. For those who have fender standard alnico pickups, you can undo the RWRP pickup just by reversing the pole pieces and the wire leads. However, this only works for those pickups that have a plastic bobin, otherwise you will damage you pickups.
Hope these comments will help everybody.
Why do you assume he doesnt have rw in center? Its a cheap squire which probably has original pickups in it, which would be rw in center.
@@illegallystalked3119 It's because the dummy coil worked good in all 5 positions. On strats that have a middle RWRP pickup, then the dummy coil will only suppress noise for positions 1 and 5. The other positions will be even noisier.
@@guilhermeruppert9662 im thinking bs. Because he has done it on several guitars, and never mentioned non rw pickup in middle on vids.
I have not done it so i cant say for sure you are wrong, but getting guitar with 3 single coils all wound in same direction hasnt happened since the very early 3 way switch strats that i know of.
bs.? A LOT of current guitars are made non-RWRP based onvintage designs... fender pickups such as CS69 and 57/62 are non-Rwrp too. You are correct that stock squiers are usually rwrp. But based on the actual sound of the video is is non-rwrp for sure. I have done this dummy-coil mod twice in my strats in the past and I know what I am talking about. Its just pure physics.
@@guilhermeruppert9662 in my 45 years of playing strat style guitars i have never played one with anything but rw on middle position. Yes the early early strats had a 3 way switch so was no need for rw middle pickup. But if you say you did it, well i javent so guess you win. I would think this youtuber would of made that point clear if in fact the middle pup was rw though.
I think that the confusion lays with how signal and mains hum are effected by coils. I suspect the dummy coil is acting like an RF choke and preventing the 60hz noise travelling any further along the wire. I would be careful where you install the dummy coil as the 60hz hum could be re-induced back into the circuit through other wires. When a dummy coil is placed directly under a pickup as in those which are called silent pickups, the magnetic field effects it so it needs then to be wound out of phase with the other as in a humbucker.
Good analysis Matt, as you say it's the phase anti-phase mix that nulls the noise, matter and anti-matter spring to mind ;-)
If the whole thing boils down to adding resistance, then why not measure the resistance from one of the pickup leads to the other and instead of using an old pickup just insert a resistor? I'm just curious because I want to get rid of the hum on my strat.
I was thinking of the samething....a resistor....like those WIRE WOUND ceramic block resistors....or just wire wound resistors
You can get those for 50 cent or $1...they're actaully just pennies...
But at what Ohms and watts....they're smaller...
this way to can just wire a resistor to each pick up....
The dummy coil is basically an INDUCTOR. Inductor also acts as a filter....
so dose capacitors.
That's not how any of this works. Sorry.
So with your dummy coil design it doesn't matter the position it is inside right?
great vid. will be doing this asap.
The link dosent work for the wiring diagram....any help?
why does it matter where the dummy coil lives? can't I just build a cable with a dummy coil inline, and plug that into any single coil guitar?
+Tom Drake a coil is like an antenna... well it IS an antenna :-)
So you want your noise sensing antenna (dummy coil) to pick up the same exact noise that your main antennas (pickups) pick up.
Its like when you have large hum picked up by your single coil guitar, but when you turn 45-90 degrees its much lower. if your dummy coil won't turn with you, it will continue to pickup the large hum source and will induce it to your signal.
Thanks , that makes sense.
Woodeso, how about you place share where you got the schematic for the dummy coil, then everybody that has an opinion/view can look for themselves....just sayin'
John Da Costa You're right amigo. I just posted it in the description. frettech.com/dummy/strat-rwrp-dummy.gif
Awesome.....
+Woodeso's Guitar Mods the link is out, can you repost or should we just look for one bc i dont wanna mess it up
Woody,
It doesn't matter how the pickup is wired. As long as that 60hz is sent to ground away from the output, you're fine. Actually you're creating a filter that gets grounded immediately and doesn't get to the amplified section. You trapping the 60 he hum and sending it to ground where it will never be seen by the amplifiers preamp section, and because of that it won't pass through the amplifier section. It works. Simply, effectively, it works. It doesn't even have to be done on a old pick up, it can be done with just a plain coil and it would work just as well.
try to measure by multitester ouput from your guitar, dummy coil will add up your dc resistance of the pickup, in the tone become warm
Yeah fallinidols, got it! how you gonna pull this off in a Tele?
Actually, you do seem to be misunderstanding at least a couple of things. First off, switching your guitar cable around, like that, doesn't change a thing, electrically speaking. It's not changing the polarity, so it's not changing the phase of anything. On the other hand, switching around the leads on your dummy coil would make a difference. You mention something about it not making a lick of difference because the dummy coil doesn't have a magnet. Well, you're wrong. On a normal pickup you need the magnet for the string to create a signal, because the string doesn't have a voltage to it. The string has to interact with the magnet and coil to create a signal. This isn't so, concerning the 60 cycle electromagnetic waves that create that annoying hum. They don't need a magnet to create that hum. Do you know anything about transformers? Just think of whatever is generating those 60 cycle electromagnetic waves, as the primary winding, and think of the dummy coil as the secondary winding. Switching around the leads on the secondary of a transformer would reverse the phase of the output voltage, wouldn't it? It's the same with your dummy coil. Also, you say that it doesn't seem to change the tone. Well, it's quite possible that it's not noticeable. This doesn't change the fact that your dummy coil not only has resistance, but inductance, as well. I don't know how you wired-in your dummy coil, but it could affect the tone in different ways, depending on how it's connected. If you wired it in series, it might act like the choke in a typical speaker crossover network. In that case, it might subdue some of the highs. On the other hand, If you wired it in parallel, it could actually bring out some highs. Unfortunately, impedance also plays a part, so the extra loading-down of your amplifier input could also adversely affect your tone. All this said, if you happen to have that dummy coil wired in correctly, and it doesn't make the guitar sound bad, then more power to ya. In other words... If it works, it works...
great vid.
good job. it works.
I agree. Polarity does not matter. The signal coming out of the pickups is an alternating signal
And alternating signals can be out of phase with each other...
Is amazing!!! Work for me!!! With no noise!!!! Thanks!!!
I could hear it
I don't think there is any noticeable change in tone in a dummy coil, as long as there is nasty hum......I'm happy. The overall science of the schematics......... Zzzzzzzzzzz. Yawn.....if it works, its good!!! Good video
if it works then its all good if anyone wants to say different make them prove you wrong if they cant then they are full of Crap
blá blá blá.....