Protodac sound Comparison and how to add a Fifo Q7 / PurePi from IanCanada
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- čas přidán 5. 07. 2024
- I compare the sound of a barebone Protodac vs one with a FifoQ7 and PurePi vs a D6 Dac with a ES9038Q2M Dual Mono II DAC HAT and a OPA861 IV Board by IanCanada
Corrections:
13:16 Video should say WS DATA BCK
if connecting on the Resistor end, like in the video the Correct order is WS DATA BCK as resistors are crosslinked not as per schematic.
If you are connecting on the Chip end then the order as per video is correct
Connections on TDA1387 on the chip 1 - WS / 2 - BCK / 3 - DAT
On the resistors output it is 1- WS / 2 - DATA / 3 - BCK
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Parts used :
IFI 5v Power supply: amzn.to/3PS8bOR
U.FL Female cable cut one end and solder: amzn.to/3Uvedrb
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Protodac On Moode Site, click the Protodac Tab : moodeaudio.org
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Protodac Video and how to build it :
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Corrections:
13:16 to 13:45 Video should say WS DATA BCK
if connecting on the Resistor end, like in the video the Correct order is WS DATA BCK as resistors are crosslinked not as per schematic.
If you are connecting on the Chip end then the order as per video is correct
Connections on the resistors output it is 1- WS / 2 - DATA / 3 - BCK
Connections on the TDA1387 chip 1 - WS / 2 - BCK / 3 - DAT
So how did you listen after hooking it up as per in the video and then give your impression?
I like that you compared all 3 together and actually built 3 setups and was able to do a A/B/C comparison on the fly.
Thank you Gaby for this A/B/C comparison from a audiophile like yourself that built all 3 of them and was able to listen and compare all 3 within seconds. It is hard sometimes to compare products a few hours or days later from each other.
nice video again.
Nice comparison, so you can see that not every expensive upgrade is a major improvement, sometimes simple is a better option.
Oh and nice video like always! Thanks a lot.
Great Video showing all 3 together I will try the UFL connector way that sounds promising also looking forward to your TDA1541A project . As for sound for me I can hear improvements with the Fifo/ PurePi version but I will try the UFL also will try the IFI power supply.
The TDA1541A is meant to sound best in simultaneous mode in which I believe Ian Canada does and output version of that .
Very interesting and informative again ;)
Thanks again!
I do wonder if there is a case for a "Gainclone" style of DAC. I've added a $5 PCM5102 to my Pi4 and the sound quality is excellent.
Hi Gabster :) Thanks again for your videos! When I first built my Protodac, I tried different cap brands and values to see if I would get better results. After tinkering around with a few different brands/values, I settled on copper foil caps valued at 5.6uF each cap. Very good sound and brought out more details in the music. Just my 2 cents.
That is great Jacques thanks for sharing this info what brand were those copper foil caps?
It may help others,
@@Gabster1 The caps I have are called Copper Caps. I actually had them manufactured for myself using German Copper foil 99.99% pure copper, paper/wax. Made similar to the Jupiter copper foil caps. I still have quite a few pairs left in different values :)
Very nice to have someone investing so much time and effort to share this. I am currently trying to figure out how to create my own active crossover with 4 DACs to power 8 amps. I think mcfifo is what I need. It Would be awesome if you could show us how it’s done! 😅
not sure about 4 dacs as you will get into timing and phase issues maybe1 dac 4 preamps and 8 amps
I was looking into the Iancanada mcfifo which claims to link multiple dacs in time and phase. This would allow for a digital crossover that surpasses the limitations of analog networks. I usually see people use pro audio interfaces for this purpose but never have I seen someone create their own. I want to do it myself but I have never tried anything like it. I would prefer to see someone else succeed first.
Hi there, nice build. I have a general question: If you add the USB amanero interface, and connect it to your PC. will it detect the card as a soundcard and then output to the DAC? I would guess so? Also, how does the input selection work? If you add for example a CD player digital output to the SPDIF input on recieverpi, how do you select which input to use? Via the pot on the screen?
Nice honest assessment. The question remains, how do these 3 DACs compare with your cost no object iancanada project in the nice wood case?
It is another step ahead.
There is a plan to update it , as a lot of the boards have improved a tiny bit.
Hi Gabster, nice clip as usual. Regarding to Protodac evaluation; my experience was little bit different. 1 bare Protodac - only background listening , primary level for not demanding listener. 2 The Protodac with a Pure Pi - a significant improvement, better separation, wider stage, starting point for immersive listening. 3 The Protodac with the Pure Pi and a Fifo PI q7, a decent power supply - huge improvement, wider and 3d stage, cleaner sound, sparkling high frequencies. Really immersive listening. Both Pure PI and Fifo PI Q7 were worth the money spent. Regarding to UFL connections, easy to implement and worth to try. However I would ask Ian Canada if I2S and UFL are not the same connections. The only difference is that you omitted filtering resistors on Protodac board and that's the sound difference. Who knows.
Thank you for a great response. It is nice to hear from others like you who have tried all three and nice to hear what others have heard. I wonder if theI I-fi power supply in the basic setup helped also as you say not sure how the UFL connectors improved the sound, but there are so many variables in the sets even just our ears and our equipment in my case I was able to set all three of them and I was fortunate for that to be able to do all three at the same time and be able to listen to them in an ABC quick switchingset up
Hi, may I ask which power supply you used with the bare protodac?. Did you power each separately or rpi only?. My theory is that if you use a good linear or regulated power supply like the Ifi Gabster used, then you don't see much benefit from PurePi. Of course purePi is better than a cheap wall wart, and in that scenario is where you notice a big improvement in sound quality.
Hello Gabi, greate video and grate idea as always. I have only one concern unless you have some other design of ProtoDAC. Connections on TDA1387 as on the chip 1 - WS / 2 - BCK / 3 - DATA: does not correspond to output of resistors on ProtoDAC, there is a cross linking. On resitor output is 1- WS / 2 - DATA / 3 - BCK. Please correct me if I'm wrong because, to be honest, I'm still a little bit confused 😊. Best regards Michael.
Yes you are correct Michael on my setup I do have Data in the middle I think I will add a correction
It is very confusing not sure why the cross so close to the chip
I did the video few days after and went by the schematics
THANK YOU 🙏
Do you think all three units sound better than the Terminator DAC .
Great info in this video. Just wondering if the ground connection of the UFL cable to ProtoDAC is necessary, since it is already grounded at the Q7 end. The UFL ground connection to ProtoDAC also creates a ground loop.
I think you need to shield each i2s cable they are very sensitive to noise I doubt it will create a ground loop
You can always try both ways but those cables need to be very short that is why I flipped the board orientation to keep them very short.
Also see my correction note in the description :)
UFL is a coax cable. The outer sheath of coax should be grounded at one end to act merely as a shield for EMI. If it doesn't work without the external sheath connected to ProtoDAC, that means there isn't a shared ground through the power supply ground, and yes, no loop.
@@ProtoDAC Ok So I checked the Grounding on the Pure PI / FifoPi
You will need to Connect the I2S wires to Ground as the ground 5v on the Pure Pi is not connected to the Fifo UFL ground because that ground comes from the 3.3v side. (Also remember we are no longer connect to any GPIO pins)
The 2 power supplies are galvanically isolated and do not share ground I think your concerns are valid but only if you are sharing the ground from the same PSU, but not in this case.
I wonder if that also contributed to the better sound.
It is nice to see concerns as that helps us further understand and double check our steps. Thanks Mark for keeping me on my toes.
Hope that helps demystify this always complicated ground subject 🙂
Gabster Thanks!!!
Once I started to build my own power supplies starting with 24 volts and dropping to 12 and 5 volts my ripple is down to pico volts and yes the proto works with Volumio adjustments to perfection without Super Capacitors.
I also run x86 Fanless SBCs with USB DAC to perfection.
In short you can build a no Super Capacitor power supply with no noise or use DC to DC on AGM batteries filtering any other noise.
Clean power allows the DAC to push micro detail deep into the room.
I've experiment with the PI 3,4,5 ASUS Tinker and X86 Fanless mini and SBCs
That sounds awesome if you have plans you like to share or boards to sell feel free to pat some links 😊
@@Gabster1I do and will
Hello, when will you try to get hold of the dddac? All these investments but still fooling around with cheaply made dacs. Greetings,Eddy
It would be so nice if anybody can rank the streaming solutions from Ian with commercial stuff. The problem with Ian products is that you have to buy them ‚one way‘ with no return possibilities if the sound doesn‘t fit your taste. I would like to build such a high end streamer if I would know the result. (In my case I only need a transport)
That's not the only problem. His customer service is abysmal in my experience.
@@hydemaintenance Agreed, I stop buying from Ian Canada because of no customer service. You buy with no options to return. He hardly responds to questions being asked.
Yes, me too - I’ve been searching in vain for something to help me understand what are the ‘deltas’ in sound quality between say the very best, all whistles and bells Ian Canada streamer with fancy pants power supply and something like HoloAudio - Red - DDC & Network Streamer, the Denafrips Arce or Arcas streamers, or perhaps even what some claim to be the best money can buy such as the Grimm Audio MU1. Would also be useful to understand the relative differences in sound quality in just Ian Canada’s products as you move up the range.
Can’t (and don’t want to) comment on customer service - but my expectations are fairly low for what I expect is a small business with few people running it, if not just Ian himself. You often find that people who are technically brilliant either just don’t have the desire, time or right approach for what’s needed for selling to end users/consumers. This feels like a business that is born out of his own passion and desire to produce components for DIY projects that he then decided to make available for other DIY’ers - albeit ones who already know all the basics and then some.
That comes with a lot of challenges, as lots of customers (myself included) just don’t yet have enough of a technical understanding to navigate through a huge catalogue of products, to know what’s the right module to use, what’s compatible with what, and so need technical support (to begin with) on how to use it. I’ve struggled with the documentation for these products which have a steep learning curve and seem to assume a lot of pre-existing knowledge.
To be a bigger success a business like this needs a team of people to produce beginner’s guides, FAQ’s and all sorts of customer support information and resources (and lots of other things besides). Whether Ian even wants the business to grow that big, or in that way (or just be a small concern for already well informed DIY project builders) is for him to decide, including whether he is able and willing to bring together everything needed to do that. I’m just grateful this stuff is available (like @Gabster ‘s videos) for me to be able to learn from even if none of it gives me everything I’d like or even just need.
@Gabster - Not sure if you have a relationship with Ian Canada in the sense that you feel able to give him feedback on what new customers need? Or perhaps you or other capable people you know may have the time and desire to work with him, to build a solid core of user friendly resources for both beginner DIY project customers as well as answering more advanced tech support queries? I’ve seen his new website, which is a big improvement on just the GitHub pages, but there’s still a huge amount of additional information and resources really needed for ‘mere mortals’ navigate all his products without having to send him ‘newbie’ questions in emails he might now have time to respond to etc
@@stephendixon8575 My experience was actually that he sold me a Q7, knowing full well that it causes pops with the Protodac, about a month before he released the v.2 which fixed this issue. When I contacted his asking why didn't he just mention that the fix was so close and to maybe hold off, he just sent me a generic 'please let me know how I can help' to which I replied and then I never heard back again. I was a return customer too. Not anymore.
Hi Gabby, if there is 1 person in the world that can do it's you.
I m trying to build a Ruark R1s smart radio that has fm, dab media streamer in compact cabinet but all I find is cheap esp32 with mono sound . Any ideas how to start?
why not build a mini dac like the simple Protodac on a RPI most stations stream online
@Gabster1 yes but you do not have dab and fm. Is not Canada everywhere...
i bout the Protodac... is ok dac, my ESS sabre just sounds better..
Now im playing with PCM56... and comparing to my Protodac... is very similar in sound but PCM56 takes it with musicality and better imaging, warmth and Dynamics.... also i could say, more resolution. its fun to play around with this dacs... i think protodac would benefit with a better output stage, something discrete, that would better the performance in terms of imaging, bass and resolution... still a good DAC
It is a very nice hobby - I get it, but why not just buy somthing like a Eversolo DMP A6 or A8? I don't know, but I bet you would get more bang for the buck and have a way better looking DAC / Streamer in an actual nice case with better software and better sound.
I can have hi end sound for the half price of A8. A6 is the middle level, Is A8 really hi end? Definitly eversolo looks better and diy with pcb and cables is not the thing for exposure in a living room.
For me it would be because of being stuck with the vendors software and the support for more or less years. With a RPI you will always be independent and can choose the distribution of your taste.