(1885) Kryptonite Fact Check
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 21. 04. 2021
- In video 1885 we'll do a fact check on two things: The Kryptonite claim that 2 cuts are necessary, and how long it takes to die grind through the shackle. Fun, fun, fun!
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![[1242] NYT Wirecutter Says These Are The Best Bike Locks](/img/n.gif)
This is what I like about Bill. Make a throw away comment which generates debate. Bill reads it then backs it up with tests. Love it.
I have that 20V Dewalt, never occurred to me that I could start a bike shop with it đđđ
And a side business of scrap metal.
I'd like a Rad Mission Metro. If you can find it, I'd prefer red. Let me know when it's in.
WHAT IF YOU TRIED.......
just kiddin. Love the destructive tests!
That extra 6 seconds has be changing my mind about stealing this $1000 bike...
NOW i understand why the NYT recommended it. It's stealing money and bikes from the rich, to give to the poor.
The noise and attention are what deter destructive attacks.
EDIT: It may surprise some of you, but deterrence is not the same thing as prevention.
The Fahgettaboudit is a lot tougher but also can be cut. I haven't seen any videos of a Fahgettaboudit being cut with battery operated power tools, but found a video of it being cut with a line current power tool: czcams.com/video/xey9p_vhclc/video.html
@@chestergregg8668 You may be surprised at what crooks can get away with in plain sight.
@@adamf663
These locks are more valuable than many of the bikes they are used to secure.
New initiative: Steal these locks, rekey then, and eBay.
Its good that the new design does in fact prevent one sided compromise, that said, 11 and 6 seconds is not a long time...
Love your channel đ
You and Bill have the best channels on CZcams
@The Gray Fox In todays day and age with people being so non-confrontational a criminal could probably spend half an hour grinding away an entire rows worth of bike locks and no one would confront them unless it was a security guard or police officer.
If you pull up on busy street in a white van with orange flashing lights on the roof jump out grind lock very loudly then drag the bike ob the van nobody will question you I have recovered several motorcycles this way
Also, a shackle or chain that small can be defeated with bolt cutters easily.
Still no twist test after the first cut đ€Ł
At Kryptonite HQ: "Damnit! Well, at least the new lug held. Get R&D on the line, tell them we need a better shackle than that pot metal one."
Yeah letâs make it from diamond, thatâs the only thing that will stand up to a disc cutter.
@@sergentcolon1 "In recent news, criminals have been found cutting through bicycles to get at the precious diamond locks that were attached to them."
The clamp was the trick that lets you cut fast . Out on the street the shackle can wobble, sometimes that makes the cutting wheel shatter and hopefully blow up in the thiefs face.
Love that you validate your âoff the cuffâ comments! Iâm going to miss your videos, Bill. Happy retirement!
I like how you take safety seriously with the gloves. I always have a bad feeling when people handle sharp tools or cutting machines even closely without gloves đŁ
99% of the time gloves are absolutely NOT NECESSARY..... there was no need for gloves for using any of the tools in this video. you sound like a huge safety sally......
@@orion7741 when using rotating tools you should never use gloves, as they can be drawn in (at least that's what I learned) ... although these grinders do not have the power of a table saw, they could cause severe damage if the glove is caught by the tool
@@SystemX1983 I used neoprene-lined gloves once and almost lost my thumb. When the neoprene was being rubbed, it started to heat, the glove acted like hot glue and started to pull off my thumb.
I ALWAYS, ALWAYS use gloves when stealing stuff.
NO prints allowed.
@@SystemX1983 at stationary rotating tools, you should never wear gloves, that's true. But there's a bit of a discussion about wearing gloves when using battery powered tools. A lot of them have a quick-stop system which decreases the risk of getting drawn in. And in some environments, wearing gloves makes sense to protect your hands from other dangers like heat or cutting.
I would love to see a really quick third video using bolt cutters just to see if they could cut through that bar
Happy Retirement! Your's is the channel that first really piqued my interest in lock picking and helped to expand my interests in locks in general. My best wishes to you and all of your endeavors from here on out.
Just so you know, Bill, that 20V Max battery you have right there is what used to be sold as the 18V XR battery. Only difference is they're quoting the voltage the battery puts out when it's fresh out of the charger, whereas the 18V is roughly what you get on average as the battery drains from full to empty, i.e. the nominal voltage. Obviously the 20 is a bigger number so we'll see that practice a lot more often in the future. I don't like it.
Marketing sucks. Like politics, it's just lying now.
It's all psychological bs for dummies, most people think the 20v is better than the 18v so that's what they buy, it's marketing to the dummies who will also pay far more for the 20v system, the manufacturers love it, $$$$ for them.
Thanks for this comment, it'll help save money, and headaches for the future :)
what nobody seems to talk about: the voltage does not even really matter when it comes to an estimate about the effectiveness of the tool.
Power equals Voltage times Current.
With that in mind, let's add more questions
A: does the motor even take the maximum current that the cells can deliver?
B: how much current can we pull out of this battery?
The answer to question A depends on the efficiency and thus the design of the motor.
And a simple answer to B: that depends on how many cells we have in parallel.
@@tigerchills2079 You aren't wrong. Power is what actually matters, not voltage. However, more power is easier to achieve by increasing the voltage, because you can get by with the same battery contacts, wire gauge and sometimes even switches as long as the current stays the same. The only real disadvantage of designing a 36V tool over an 18V one for example is that the amount of cells in the battery must be a multiple of 10 instead of 5, so there are larger jumps in price from one battery size to the next.
Bill diving deep on information is NOT a bad thing. A well spent video; regardless of where discussions go.
GREAT demonstrations.
Thanks for the good times, Bill! I've enjoyed your videos and appreciate you sharing your knowledge. Good luck with the retirement! :)
Thanks for putting up with so many challenges!
Wish you'd have tried bending the bar back, or twist it to see if that would break the locking part.
That would take longer than cutting through the other side.
@@chestergregg8668 yeah but still something interesting to know, the two sides didn't seem too secure after being cut, and doesn't seem to be hardened either.
FWIW, 20V and 18V tools are generally the same thing. They're just measuring it differently so they can put a bigger number on the box.
Yeah they're both probably 19v. It's a bit like 4 cells together being marketed as 6v when it's actually only 4.8v. It comes from back in the day when a signal cell battery was known as 1.5v when nowadays they're actually only 1.2v. I'm not sure how they measure lithium power cells and packages though.
@@penfold7800 Lithium cells are typically 3.6 or 3.7v nominal, but charge up to 4.0 or 4.2v max. Putting 5 cells in series is where the 18-20v range comes from, depending on if they're telling you the nominal or max voltage.
Makita and DeWalt, I see you're a man with good, quality taste, Bill.
Thanks for the memories Bill. Happy retirement!!!
Thank you very much for all your videos!!
I can't wait till someone suggests a hand file đ
or a bondian length of dental floss.
@@adamf663 dang it I was gonna suggest a diamond encrusted shoelace.
Hand file is a good idea. But just to test, if it is hardened.
Back in the day when I was cutting up and drilling padlocks in various ways, I have actually used a hand file to get through the first 1.5mm of case hardening before ripping through the rest with a hss junior hacksaw blade. I've also used a hand drill with a carbide drill bit to drill out pins, not by drilling down the sheer line, but drilling down the centre of the keyway and pulling out each pin stack individually. It was fun, and didn't wake the neighbours.
Bill, enjoy your retirement. You were the first lock expert I came across when my company joined the Allegion portfolio, same as kryptonite. Your videos helped this keyboard jokey understand global brands and what separates good vs poor design. Enjoy the time with your family, and thanks for sharing your knowledge with the world
Awesome video. Thanks for all you do!
I think Mike actually wants his cut lock back now... makes a nice souvenir. Have a great retirement Bill!
Thanks for the update Bill
i stumbled upon your viedo from 8 years ago.. master u lock that you were bashing with a hammer!
the alien puppet at the end of the video freaked me out lol.
stay safe stay legal!
your sound real professional now, compared to 8 years ago its awesome
So, 30 seconds with a cut-off and the bike is gone. I agree that the lock is a deterrent as long as the bike remains in your sight.
and you have a gun
@@thalivenom4972 Dude, unless your or someone elseâs life is in danger, you will go to jail for using a firearm to protect property. Not recommended.
Appreciate you being so thorough with your reviews and tests Bill! Just watch, one day they will make cut off tools that will go all the way up to 120v đ€Łđ
Good follow-up video!
If you cut it at the middle of the U bend, do you even really need a 2nd cut? Can you just bend/spread it enough to sneak it off the post and bike perhaps?
Would take longer than the extra 6 seconds to cut it twice.
@@cardiffpicker1
you make a very valid point.
Youâre the man Bill. I thought I was the only one who coined the phrase âwhiz bangâ
I've seen the pants made to protect you when using a chainsaw, where Kevlar strands are ripped out and jam the chain instantly. Seems like a simple Kevlar sheath over the shackle would make grinder attacks much harder.
I was thinking the same, but inside the shackle so it couldn't be cut off with a sharp knife before grinding away.
Would maybe injure the thief as well... and that's not a bad thing.
Nice, Bill. But why did you not try to bend it after the first cut?
I could not have resisted to try.
You should try the "tile and masonry silicon carbide cut off wheels" sometime. They rip through hardened steel, and last a long time.
It looks like this is the labeled as a messenger series - I can't imagine going unnoticed die grinding a lock out on a city sidewalk so seems fairly good choice.
Sure, this is not the best for a tucked away storage area, but should suffice for quick lockups.
I'd throw a good quality diamond metal cut off wheel on that Makita. Less dust, less sparks, longer life.
All true, and safer as well. But the diamond wheel is also MUCH slower cutting. I use diamond, but only for safety.
@@lockpickinglawyer True, they don't cut as fast.
Good to see an improvement on that. The only caveat or "yeah but" I can put in is that in the field it will take a BIT longer to cut, just because the lock wants to flop around so you're having to be extra careful about how you cut... Also from the locksmith side, you're also being mindful of where sparks are going so you don't damage the customer's bike... Though I just got my Sparrows disk detainer pick and LOVE it so far, (still having problems opening better locks with it, but I'm on my fourth wally world cheapie opened... learning curve and all) so hopefully the cordless angle grinder will get a LOT less use in the future...
Thanks for the video đđ
you sir are an admirable man. have a happy healthy retirement w family! keep it real man..
Great video! Always fan of testing destructive attacks. Have a good retirement!
Locksmith here, I hate the cut shackles but when it comes up, I have a Milwaukee tool thats much smaller and more compact than either of those and does a great job of it.
Thanks again Bill ,great video ,no wonder bike theft is so high now a days.
Great job Mr.Bill
You ok Bill?? Haven't seen any new videos since you posted this 4 days ago. Missed watching your Saturday review. Hope all is well.
Just one more voice in the chorus of people saying "Thanks for all the fun! Sorry to see you go!"
I really like how you address comments with tests, facts and data. No one can argue with what you showed. Well done BB. I wonder what's next - what, if anything, can be done to slow down a die grinder attack, short of adding significant mass. Sheathe the steel shackle with a layer of aluminum to clog up the disc?
Maybe have graphite in the compound to make it clog up the pores in the grinding wheel. Or have a multi-core design (like thier original patent). ...or for a cheaper alternative, have something in the paint coating that gives off noxious gas when it gets hot.
Bill, I was waiting for you to try twisting the shackle after cutting one side. In another throw away comment, you wondered about the strength of the lacking lug to resist twisting. I was wondering the same thing. You could have made the second cut right next to the first cut, or made both cuts on the curved section so as to be able to try twisting both sides.
The 20v dewalt isn't close to 18v ,it is 18v.
Choice of two lock picks there đ€Łđđ»
Of course I now need to ask if the strength of the shackle is compromised by the new cut at the curved end.
Can you make a single cut then bend the section away (even if it means sliding a section of pipe over it to make for a longer lever)
Great lock picking video!! :)
Why the hell did I ever think that shackle would be solid all the way through, like a padlock...
Dude, it IS. You probably saw the rubber anti-scratch sleeve.
@@bosnianbill You are absolutely right. I had my screen lighting set too low. I'm a total dumbass.
@@wot_hog No worries! And, just so you know, I have laid claim to the world class total dumbass title. You will have to find another name....
Nice follow up!
Yay! Thank you!!!
Now have a goodish practice disc lock
0.045" thick wheel will cut a LOT faster.
Master No5 is so tough that it could last more than 50 years .
I hope you have a happy retirement and that there're no more bad times in your future! Take care!
is there a way to make these tougher? a kevlar sleeve or a wire weave sleeve? maybe something like a stainless hose fitting?
@Bosnianbill i have a question men. A very important one. From Bosnian to Bosnian, what pick equipment would you carry with you if its the only pick equipment you have. Like one not so big Backpack. Thank you very much.
I didn't comment on the first video but now I'm wondering. If you cut the lock on the left side, grabbed a big loop at the top, and twisted it 180° then could use just slide the right side out? Test: Just grind off a couple of flat spots on opposing sides from each other on the right side, put a small wrench on it to see if you can twisted 180° (it would be the same as having the loop at the top to grab with your hand. Cheers
Thankyou for clearing that up. I really didn't realise that they had put in that extra locking lug on the other side. So what was the point in leaving in the bent hook end? I find them awkward to use as it is, but now there's a locking lug on that side, there's no point in the hook. ...unless it helps prevent scissor jack attempts. It looks like I might have been right about the shackle hardness though. Same hardness all the way through, unlike the far superior original design (imho). Good to see Makita hasn't let you down.
My guess ... is that bent part aides in holding the post in place after being cut.
It might look suspicious having a lock attached to a bike clamped up while using a grinder to cut through the lock.
Hey Bill.
Just a heads up on the 18v vs 20v. They are actually both identical and the difference is simply marketing. 20v is the peak voltage of a fully charged 18v battery. 18v is the nominal voltage of that battery.
They could even have the exact same cells inside. đ
So that's why Home Depot is out of cordless wheel cutters.
Happy retirement! đ
Sorry to hear about your friend. Be careful yourself.
I would think that extra cut almost half way through weakens the shackle so it can be bent back and snapped off or making enough clearance to get bike and go.
maybe they should have went with a hole instead of a slot.
have a great and secure day
Ouch that was quick... So what is a secure bike lock for locking the bike all day outside work?
The side with the odd bent end couldn't turn. But could the side with the original locking lug? So if you cut in the opposite side closer to the bent end?
RIP Kryptonite.đ
should do another one using the gator cutting tool.Greenlee ETS8LX11 Cable Tray / Bolt Cutter.....cheers
I was thinking if lock manufacturer have looked at the cut off disk and made a abrasive core where it will cut the disk that's cutting it causing the disk to be blunt and making it hard to ingress as they have to keep changing disk?
Does anyone know when they will be releasing their second round of Detainer picks?
But, if you cut it close to the lock body on the right, does that give you a long enough lever with the shackle to bend it or snap it at that cut on the other end? That cut is about halfway through and in a smaller diameter section so it stands to reason that's going to be a pretty weak section of the shackle.
Change to 1mm thick cutting discs to reduce cutting time and heat.
Hi bud l have a question (sorry about this but had to ask) with the curved cut end (on the the other side) can you move it backwards and forward until it breaks as it looked a weak point
No. Moving it back and forth does not seem to put much stress on the cutout. The shackle binds in the lock body first.
Hey Bill ......I know that it's probably already been said but I'm going to anyways so if you just use a portable bandsaw you can actually cut both at the same time and then you are still only making 1 cut ........ LOL
Midnight shift in New Zealand reporting for duty!
Notes duly noted!
Kiwi,
Post and orders, remain as directed.
Cut it once and bend the shackle out of the way. Probably take just as long as cutting it again. The second notch in the back of the shackle is a perfect weak bendy point.
Master lock,tough under pressure,tough under fire,tough under everything except when you abuse it for a month,in this case it is defeatable.
Hey Bosnian Bill, greetings from Bosnia ^^. Where exactly are you from?
20v 'max' and 18v are the same. You hit 20v max at the end of the charging cycle on both batteries. Both drop down to 18v *extremely* quickly.
You can check it with a voltmeter. It's why you see "20v max" on everything, it's not marketing wank, it's a statement of "well it can deliver 20v in perfect conditions"
Iâd be curious if cutting through the locking rod(opposite the U) would take less then 17 seconds hence giving it only a 1 cut open
Good to see the minimum times, with the lock loose that will take the time up. đKryptonite could do with making a sleeve made out of chainsaw protective material to increase the cut time.
It's a budget orientation lock.
Also chainsaw loose weave Kevlar filling needs space to work and relies on teeth to pull to gum it up, not grit to abrade.
Choosing a different outer alloy may be the better option in the higher budget categories.
One company uses a compressed spray section that sprays grinders with market dye.
But that's not legal everywhere.
Put a real soft aluminium alloy around the shackle, it's a bitch to cut with a cutoff wheel. You have to rub soap on the wheel to keep the aluminium from clogging the wheel.
What is the best begginner lock pjck set on amazon
Someone needs to invent a bike lock with a kevlar filled shackle. Once the angle grinder hits that it's bye bye cutting wheel.
Does kevlar damage cutting wheels? Interesting approach if so. I've read that the Altor SAF bike lock uses a huge aluminum shell around the shackle that's partially hollowed, with internal contours designed to damage cutting wheels.
@@Tenebrys According to some other bike locks on the market, Kevlar causes cutting wheels to catch and shatter / kick back. Kevlar inside the shackle, if it could do the job, would be a lot lighter than the Altor SAF and about as good.
I was completely wrong, at the first video I thought the lock would stand up to cutting much better than this, this surprised me. My lock shopping habits just changed.
Hi, I have watched your channel longer time ago and I just wonder if anybody know where (if possible) anybody can buy MadBob jackknife? I tried to search through the web without a good result. I do remember however that you used it one day in the video
Would it make any difference if you cut the top middle of the hoop? Seems like you would have more leverage and a little more flexibility to bend the bars.
I think a good counterpoint is that given the ease at which the shackle was cut through, why bother with leverage and trying to bend metal when you can just make another cut.
@@Pzychotix Yeah it was just a thought... why make 2 if you only need 1?
Great video
There might not be much in it, but I was thinking that you should use the lowest possible echelon of tool. If a thief is forced to buy power tools to get what they want, they won't typically reach for a Makita. đ€
Thermite! C4! Jaws of life! Nice work!
After the first initial cut and having that notch in the âLâ side of the shackle, would you be able to snap or twist it out by hand without making a second cut?
No. Dude, that was the whole purpose of the video... The Hulk could probably do it tho.
i was thinking that. i bet i could muscle it wide enough to open around a bike bar
U lock seems the most vulnerable to grinders. Seems to me like chain or even a folding lock would hold this longer.
The issue is not just about grinders and cutting times, it's about these locks definitely removing the possibility for scumbag thieves to thieve silently. Not being noticed is what the scumbags much prefer. These locks make it much harder for the scumbags to steal. So go ahead and confidently buy Kryptonite U-locks.
I'd like to see someone cut of these while is installed on a bike. How do you make two cuts without seriously damaging the bike frame?
In real life situation the lock wouldn't be clamped so tightly thus might hold longer
How about one cut at the end of the hoop? Might be enough play in the latched ends to spread the bars by hand and slide the lock off.