Central Washington out the D2 is not that far away from Pullman Washington either. I don't know why the Big Sky not giving them a lifeline to be in a real football conference along with Western Oregon? They could help cut cost down on traveling for EWU and Portland State.
That would be a good topic for a Big Sky Conference podcast, if there is one. But if CWU and Western Oregon could handle the jump to FCS then they'd be a lot better off than they are now, playing in the Lone Star Conference and having to travel to Texas etc. for half their football games.
Idaho plays in the Kibbie Dome. Which has recently been expanded but seating is still rather limited. 7 miles from Wazzu WSU (drop the o people!). Idaho was pleading to join the MW when the WAC dissolved and was left out so they would be the next up likely. Another thing to consider is New Mexico State and UTEP are less than a hour drive apart. Could probably enherit the Sun Bowl as a MWC bowl game with that move too. Both the Montana should be a lock. My other two would definitely be Texas schools UTEP and UTSA or possibly North Texas? Great job guys. I'm a new subscriber and a die hard Coug.
I don’t care about the mountain west I just came here for the FSU content but now I’m here for everything you guys are as good as any college football pod! Thank you
M.W. best additions: OSU, WSU, UTSA, UNT. I'm surprised UNT wasn't on your list. Realistically: Montana, SDSU, NDSU, UTEP. Look into Moscow Idaho. It would be in the conference's best interest to avoid that situation, whatever it is.
You are wrong about New Mexico State University on several accounts. The enrollment is not shrinking and its not 11,000. It's at 25,300 plus. The attendance at football games is growing faster than any other FBS program in the country growing 27% since 2021. It's in a larger metroplex population area than Albuquerque University of New Mexico, who's enrollment is shrinking. When I attended UNM in the late 70s the university claimed to have an enrollment over 35,000 while today it's only about 19,000 with the undergraduate population at 15,000. UNM also has an outdated football stadium that once had a track around the field, making the seats at a bad angle for good view of the field, while New Mexico State has a modern football stadium built for football only, with all seat having a good view of the field. NMSU only disadvantage is the pay the coaches earn, but they are correcting that.
You are absolutely correct with your comments. NMSU gets overlooked by politicians in the state so funding is very limited. NMSU needs to improve their stadium but they are making improvements. They had a great coach with Jerry Kill but looking forward to Tony Sanchez continuing the charge.
Thanks for the info. I have been wondering about this, as the MWC has to be thinking about adding schools, because of the times. The Dakota schools are much closer to the MWC schools than the Texas schools (unless you're measuring from Albuquerque, which is an outlier). If you've ever been to either Fargo or Brookings, you know that these schools are culturally Western schools, more than any Texas school other than UTEP. Both the B1G and the MAC consider these schools to be in the far west, outside their midwest roots, geography to the contrary be damned. Also, I wonder, given that geography is your main criteria, why California schools like Sacramento State and Cal-Davis wouldn't be considered over any Texas school other than UTEP. Is this all about recruiting? Despite my questions, I really think that you did an outstanding job on this, as usual.
Great point about the culture of the Dakota schools. Our geography rating was more to “expand” the conference in new states and localities than anything else. Sacramento State has been brought up several times, but we didn’t include due to their proximity to San Jose and Fresno. They certainly could be looked at as well, Especially if Texas is fully off the table, other than maybe UTEP. But given the travel already required with the mountain west schools, there may not be an appetite to expand beyond the existing borders. We always appreciate your comments as they are well informed and articulated.
NDSU attendance will increase if they go FBS. Many fans don't go because the reputation is, "Why go if we're just going to win 44-7." Thay would no longer be the case if they join the MWC. In the early 2010s NDSU has one of the most raucous environments. The problem NDSU might have is their facility is a dome (not easy to expand) and its capacity is something like 18K. And they don't control it. It is actually owned by the city I believe. But if they join the MWC I think they will routinely draw 17-19K.
Just watched this. While I agree that going east is limited, it's even more limited going towards the Dakotas. If the Mountain West would expand into Texas, they get access to a lot of TV eyeballs and a lot of recruiting for both athletes and regular students (look up the enrollment cliff data). This would add to the bottom line for the Mountain West schools. The Dakota schools do not offer either one of those advantages that the Texas schools have. In fact I've never seen any media in the local Mountain West markets say anything about the Dakota schools (since they are off of our radar). The only articles I've seen about them is coming from the Dakota media, or a guest on the Dakota radio stations trying to pander to the local audience. The Dakotas are in a dead zone when it comes to college athletics. Outside of the Big 10 (which they will never get into) there are no FBS leagues near them. The Mountain West is too far west. The MAC is slightly closer to the east. They missed the C-USA bus when the league was scrambling for teams. The Sunbelt and AAC are also too far away. The best option for the Dakota schools to make FBS (if that is really the goal of the administrations) is to create a new FBS league. A "snowbelt" league. Idaho, Montana, Montana, State, North Dakota, North Dakota State, South Dakota and South Dakota State is a good nucleus to start at. Find some possible schools to help round out the league (possibly Idaho State, Weber State, Northern Iowa, Illinois State, Indiana State, etc.) and that's the ticket for the Dakotas to finally move up. They won't get into the Mountain West and I highly doubt they will get into the MAC.
I can't imagine a team leaving the AAC or Sun Belt for the MWC. The three conferences are comparable on the football field, but the AAC and Sun Belt have better recruiting footprints and higher viewership timeslots.
I Live out here in the Dakotas, you are not going to get SDSU or NDSU without the other. They both went up in divisions together and the Administrations work rather closely with each other. Both ADs have said in the past couple of years that they aren't in a rush to go into the FBS. But they have also said that they would listen to whomever came to talk with them.
Interesting take on poaching conference USA schools. It’s the first time I’ve heard that but it does make a lot of sense. You could really make a case for any of the big sky schools and it would sound reasonable 😂
Great video guys! Very interesting subject. Figured I'd see someone give yall a Texan perspective on this but I don't so I'll tell you what I think. 1. If you're trying to get into Texas, UTEP ain't it. Yallve seen the map. They're so isolated from the rest of the state that we don't really hear about them. Them and NMSU would give yall a great rivalry game though. Not to mention both schools being rivals with UNM. UNM would probably throw a fit if they got added though. 2. UTSA is a one trick pony. They're great at football, but that's literally it 3. TXST and UTSA might have the most underrated rivalry in the G5. We put 50k in the Alamodome last year. 4. The MWC really isn't that appealing to TXST. We're already on an island in the Sun Belt but we're still closer to all of the schools in our division than the closest current MTW school is. We don't want to be on an even bigger island. We also enjoy the Sun Belt. It would be a downgrade in football to move. The only thing that might get us to the MTW would be if UTSA came with us. Again, we're on an island now but we are still within weekend roadtrip distance of our division opponents. That wouldn't be the case in the MWC. This same line of thought probably applies to UTSA, UNT, and Rice as well. SHSU might want out of CUSA bad enough that they would accept an invite, but if y'all are inviting them then things are going really really off the rails and the world is doomed lol.
Fun episode-and good logic behind it all. So much depends on whether PAC12 rebuilds, and who they would poach. Or if the “super league” happens. The cream of the crop at the higher level would indeed be UTSA. But I think you are undervaluing Rice. They are in Houston market, with nearly $8b endowment. They aren’t running out of money anytime soon. If the plan is to go down a click, then yes, the Montana schools are solid. Living in Portland I see both play Portland State and the caliber of football is really good, and both schools travel well.
Great points. Any PAC rebuild would have major ramifications for this list. Also a very solid point about going for additive schools vs just adds. Adds would be needed for a backfill (FCS). Additive is almost a must for expansion (FBS). We tried to give some options for both.
I agree with the assessment of each school. I like both Montana and Montana State but I think they are way behind the FBS schools in terms of being targets for the conference. I get the sense that they like where they are at and it would take some convincing to even get them to come over. We really should be moving hard into Texas by looking at all the schools you mentioned (including NMSU) but also look at UNT. If we do end up getting Oregon State and Washington State, I think that only helps us to be able to pull in AAC schools. After the power schools in the AAC got poached the MWC is the clearly better conference; I think those schools would make the jump to come over no problem. Ultimately we need to look at getting to at least 18 schools.
Agreed with 16-18 schools. Beavs and Cougs and 2-4 from our list. A winning formula! And yes, adding the Beavs and Cougs makes the MWC the top G5 and weight to pull possible AAC schools. Probably the only way to get AAC schools right now. BTW, love your comment. Thx for being an active member of TBM!
Their contract is up in a little over a year. It will probably go much higher if they can keep SDSU, Boise, UNLV, CSU & Fresno from finding a new home. Way higher if they end up adding OSU and WSU.
My theory is that OSU/Wazzu would be first. Beyond that, I think the easiest pitches to the MW would be schools that were old members of the WAC, as they'd have the leverage of knowing some of the members already. Louisiana Tech, UTSA, Texas State, for example.
Good show. I like the picks. But I would be cautious about adding FCS schools. Just because they have had success at a lower level does not mean that success will translate to FBS consistently. I think if 4 teams left the MW just add New Mexico State and UTEP to get to 10 schools. Fewer schools means more revenue for each school.
Great point about FCS adds. But Would love to see one of the Montanas added if they had interest. As Steve has said many times before, you’d want any addition be additive to a conference, if at all possible.
Montana and Montana State had shared a conference with schools from the PAC 2 and MWC. Montana was a former c0-founder of the first version of the PAC 10 under a different name along with Idaho. Montana State was part of the RMAC with Colorado, Colorado State, Wyoming, Utah, Utah State, BYU at one point. The Two Dakota schools are safe bets. The two Dakota schools, the Montana twins, and several Big Sky schools have beaten FBS P5 teams in recent years .I would not count them out either.
I’d go for Long Beach State. Already good at baseball and basketball, could possibly be convinced to bring back football … play in Carson at the Dignity Health Sports Park. With the right NIL, and no yearly scholarship limitations, they could build a competitive program much quicker these days.
Understandable. They were looked at but we went with Idaho. Either way, they wouldn’t be in our top 4 FCS targets assuming the Dakotas aren’t too far east for where the conference would be willing to travel. Thanks again for the Q!
@@TheBigMountainPodcast would their media rights company be willing to pay for extra teams, as that is going to determine the MWC moves toward expansion. I doubt any school would be willing to lower their amount of the conference payout to bring in new schools.
I live in Montana, and yes the Grizzlies and Bobcats are popular. But I have to point out the fairly small population base and long travel distances that Montana & Montana State athletics must deal with in terms of fan support. Sacramento State is a more attractive choice for the MWC. Sacramento County alone has half again as many people as does the entire state of Montana. There is plenty of wealth there, being the state capital, and Sac State football has been trending up in local popularity.
I wish Cal Poly was more competitive in football. They fit in perfect geographically, they are most prestigious CSU regarding academics, and their students get rowdy.
I'm a few days late, but I've been casually following the Big Sky over the past few years since some local high school players and friends have been going to those schools to play football so I'm a tiny bit more familiar with those schools. I think it would be tough to separate the Montana schools, it would be great to get them both since they have a fantastic rivalry and Montana has a great stadium and I think they would fit right in with the of MW schools. Idaho seems to have their athletics as a whole turning around with the football team making the playoffs and a new brand new basketball arena. But the higher ups might be a little apprehensive given Idahos past with FBS football. It would also be a little weird if WSU was also in the conference since the two schools are literally like 5-10 minutes from each other and they both have to share that small local market that WSU already commands, but Idaho always has enough fans to pack the Kibbie Dome. It would revive the 'Battle of the Palouse' rivalry when the losing fans had to walk home. Also if I were anymore than a casual Eastern Washington fan I would be appalled at your blasphemous confusion of who has the red turf, but I'm not lol.
Battle of the Palouse! love it! That blasphemous comment (lol) was an honest mistake. But we can’t do better! Adding OSU, WSU, 2 Montanas, UTEP, and TX St would make the PREMIER WESTERN CONFERENCE!
ACC implosion is going to leave Wake, Syracuse and BC in the same position as OSU/WSU. Cal isn’t going to want in on that. Memphis, SMU and Tulane become realistic adds from that point. The new AAC is incredibly weak, and I don’t know how much adding the ACC leftovers helps.
What are you guys' thoughts on Tulane as an MWC option? In relative terms, USTA and Texas State are only slightly closer than New Orleans to the rest of the MWC.
We stretched it with UTSA and Tx St. unlikely they go any further east and they may want to just stay pacific and mtn time zones. (Which is why UTEP could be a great fit. Only Tx school in MDT)
Besides Oregon State and Washington State, nobody. While each and every single school brings one thing, there's another thing that would always work against them. For example: NDSU, SDSU, Montana, Montana State have a great athletic profile (history and facilities) but their location and demographics works against them. UC Davis and Sac State brings location and demographics but their athletic profile works against them (history and facilities). The MWC is stronger when Oregon State and Washington State join the conference than adding the aforementioned FBS and FCS schools mentioned in the video. I also recommend you guys to check out D1 360's take on MWC Expansion. The video is assuming that SDSU and SMU would've gone to the PAC, but he provides a deep analysis on each MWC expansion candidate and his Top 3 picks on who should join the MWC: czcams.com/video/tZG8IOwVVA0/video.htmlsi=pUzxy6LSOKDMuZAc&t=2488
I think as far as FCS additions go the Montana schools are by far the best option for a lot of reasons. You probably couldn't get one without the other for the sake of rivalry. The Dakotas would be good, too, but you probably wouldn't go that far east without also adding the Montanas, and I'm not sure if the Mountain West would be interested in adding four FCS schools at the same time.
I live in San Marcos TX (25 miles south of Austin) home of Texas St. Until recently TS FB have sucked. The are the most western most Sun Belt Conference school. At this point not worth taking. Too close to Austin Texas gets all the attention. UTSA & TXST as a pair makes sense. North Texas and Rice as a pair makes sense. Rice was part of the 16 team WAC
I think the MWC’s future depends on the ACC. If a bunch of ACC schools leave for the P2 and B12, then the remaining ACC schools (probably at least 5) would expand to keep P4 status. Since Calford could still be in the leftover ACC along with Wake Forest, SMU, Syracuse, they could first grab WSU/OSU to get to 7). Then the ACC might go after top AAC and MWC schools and be a national conference. From MWC i would expect that SDSU, Fresno St, Boise State, CSU. AF, From AAC USF, Tulane, Memphis and UTSA to get to 16. Leftover MWC schools could add UTEP, NDSU, SDSU, Montana St, Montana, Idaho, Northern Iowa.
As a Boise State fan, BSU hates Idaho. They’d never go along with helping Idaho out of the FCS. For years the chant was “Idaho, Idaho, ho ho ho, back to The Big Sky you must go!” Note, BSU hasn’t played them since they dropped to the FCS.
I agree with JY about North Dakota State and South Dakota State. I made a video about potential MAC expansion targets, and I had some comments suggest NDSU and SDSU, but I believe those schools are too far west of what the MAC's footprint should be. NDSU and SDSU are much better suited for the Mountain West. Also, I believe the MWC would have a shot at getting New Mexico State (as unattractive as that is), and UTEP. Montana and Montana State are good choices too for the MWC.
Thx Steven. We seen some other videos that had North Dakota and South Dakota State in the Mac as well. But from a cultural standpoint, they certainly seem to be more mountain than they do MAC.
I agree with you guys for the most part. Add UTEP, Texas State, Montana and Montana State. All a slam dunk. And maybe NDSU and SDSU to the MAC since they are closer to the Midwest.
The Dakotas are in the Central time zone. So another four time zone conference? The reason the MWC started, 8 schools hated the 4 time zone conference. Until I see the Montanas move to FBS, then I will believe it! Offer them a spot? Sure. But I’m not convinced they would accept. Hawaii-football only Fresno SJSU Nevada UNM Wyoming Boise Utah St UTEP NMSU- UNM won’t like it, but tough! If the Montanas want to move up that makes 12 schools. If not, the MWC is in a tough position. Adding the Dakotas or other Texas schools adds another time zone. a UTEP is in the Mountain time zone. Sac St and Portland St, Cal Poly and Davis, don’t appear to have any interest in moving up. If the MWC wants to have even numbers for Olympic sports, add Cal Baptist. A schools that cares and spends money to athletics.
@TheBigMountainPodcast as a Montana fan I would love it, however unfortunately lack of a TV Market means we'd probably only be an option if the MWC got poached.
Who do you guys see being left in the mountain west if the Pac-2 poach some teams? Also could UC Davis be a target? I think they could have a ton of potential.
The list of teams leaving is smaller, so we will list those. SDST is easily at the top given the history. After that, either CSU or UNLV. We don’t see Boise or Fresno leaving. (But who really knows)!
I don’t think University of Idaho wants to jump back up to FBS, they are the only team to go from FBS back down to FCS because they were perennially the worst team in all of FBS when they were there.
We did not include Northern Colorado because of the proximity to CSU. Certainly agree with you with the Montana schools. Curious why you would have SDST so low on your list.
@@TheBigMountainPodcast | This is with the assumption that the PAC takes their desired picks of the current MWC: SDst BoiseSt CoSt AF Wyoming Fresno UNLV NoCO would be a back fill for the Colorado maket. Also, history has shown that the Dakota schools typically all move together or in close parallel. The all left the North Central Conference together and UND joined the Summit League to goin NDst. The schools I mentioned are all rocky mountain state programs in the Summit League or Big Sky Conference. If im the head of the MWC, I gotta know that the P2 is right around the corner. Regionality has to be at the top of my conference future. Solidifying your core with regional teams will ensure stability. Regionality should be prioritized over expanding a "footprint". No conference commish will come knocking at the door for teams in Nevada, Montana, the Dakotas. However, going the Texas route will surely leave to realignment later.
Lol Idaho is a non starter unless there is promotion relegation league standings. Ndsu and SDSU have earned it. But seriously, OSU and Wazzu, with BSU, SDSU, Utah St, Colo State, AFA, Fresno.... That's a class act conf.
I think that Wazzou and Oregon State should forget the Pac.They should totally make a new Pac strictly based on what kind of conference they want to form. The MWC should take Rice, UTSA, UNT, and Sam Houston. Then, see if Wichita State would rebuild their football.
Wichita State is not bringing back football as it was a money pit for them. there is a pretty good video out there about the school football history including why they shutdown the program.
@@EyeOfTheWatcher I doubt it would happen. But the MWC has to think outside of the box now. Heck... it's 650k people in the Wichita Metro. What else do they have to do if Boise State is there for football?
Montana Montana State NDSU South Dakota State Sacramento State has over 30,000 students. Weber State has over 29,000 Northern Arizona would get you into a new tv market. UC-Davis is an AAU school Long Beach State have been looking at restarting football and wants to join the MWC. Close to 40,000 students and is in the LA market. Missouri State has the Springfield tv market, and basketball is good. Lamar is over 17,000 good at baseball to. They brought football thanks to Tubbs and Switzer who both were coaches at Oklahoma. UTRGV just starting football. Tarleton State is spending money to join FBS. Utah Tech is in one of the fastest growing cities in the US. If UNLV is gone? They are not that far from Las Vegas. SFAU Central Arkansas in the Little Rock tv market. ACU is a good one to look at. There 3 D2 schools to look out for. West Texas A&M, former D1 and independent in 1A football at the top. Spending a lot of money to upgrade their facilities. Central Missouri is another to look for. Central Oklahoma in the Oklahoma City tv market. They are spending money to upgrade their football stadium. Their stadium is closing to 12,000 now. FBS: Memphis would get you into the Memphis tv market. They could help trigger more money from the network to expand with them. North Texas is Dallas market. UTSA could wind up getting the medical school in the town. Tulane would be a good target. The AAC is now weaker so if schools like Memphis, Tulane and UTSA wants to be in a better conference? The MWC would be a better upgrade because it is more competitive. UTEP Sam Houston State LA Tech Texas State is actually the Texas State flagship of that branch in the state. La. Lafayette Arkansas State I left Idaho out from being looked at because they lost the flagship status, and the state is not concentrating on that school as Boise State is growing their academics really fast. PAC 2 have been thinking of a complete merger and then do a regulation thing when they split, PAC 12 and MWC would formed, and North Dakota State and South Dakota State are on that list. Maybe schools like Montana, Montana State , Weber State and Northern Arizona could fit in along with schools like UTEP, UTSA, Tulane, Memphis, Texas State and Tarleton State as there as well. You could have 12 and 12. The loser of the PAC 2 would move to the MWC while the MWC winner moves to the PAC 12. So, there are endless directions you could go.
@@TheBigMountainPodcast Yep, there are a lot of R1 and R2 schools on that list that can fit in for the academics make up of The PAC 2 and MWC. North Texas, Memphis, Tulane, Rice and UTSA are R1. La.-Lafayette and Texas State are R1. UTEP is an R1. The FCS R1 schools on that list are UC-Davis, Northern Arizona, UTRGV, Montana, Montana State and North Dakota State. If Long Beach State kept football? They would have gotten the invite to the MWC over San Jose State. It is something in the state of California been talking about with the lack of football schools? They are losing the players leaving the state not playing at home to other states, and it have been talked about several schools like Long Beach, Fullerton State, Northridge State, UC-Irvine, CSU-East Bay, etc.3 schools added or about to play football in recent years are Community Christian College for the NJCAA, Lincoln Cal. Independent and Simpson for NAIA. Keep an eye on the California schools because they don't want to be left behind in the football and all that.
Eastern Washington is the school with the red turf. But hey, you were close; Moscow, ID is only about 70 miles from Cheney, WA.
Yeah but if you researching these teams you should know the difference… this is a college football podcast after all
We will have to hire a larger research staff.
@@TheBigMountainPodcast have ya'll thought about one unpaid intern position to help with research and see how that turns out?
Central Washington out the D2 is not that far away from Pullman Washington either. I don't know why the Big Sky not giving them a lifeline to be in a real football conference along with Western Oregon? They could help cut cost down on traveling for EWU and Portland State.
That would be a good topic for a Big Sky Conference podcast, if there is one. But if CWU and Western Oregon could handle the jump to FCS then they'd be a lot better off than they are now, playing in the Lone Star Conference and having to travel to Texas etc. for half their football games.
Idaho plays in the Kibbie Dome. Which has recently been expanded but seating is still rather limited. 7 miles from Wazzu WSU (drop the o people!). Idaho was pleading to join the MW when the WAC dissolved and was left out so they would be the next up likely. Another thing to consider is New Mexico State and UTEP are less than a hour drive apart. Could probably enherit the Sun Bowl as a MWC bowl game with that move too. Both the Montana should be a lock. My other two would definitely be Texas schools UTEP and UTSA or possibly North Texas? Great job guys. I'm a new subscriber and a die hard Coug.
Welcome to The Big Mountain and thx for the great comment.
We try and keep tabs on the PAC, so hopefully you’ll enjoy our content.
I’m a Boise State fan, but it’s Eastern Washington University that has red turf and Idaho is in Moscow, Idaho.
👍
I don’t care about the mountain west I just came here for the FSU content but now I’m here for everything you guys are as good as any college football pod! Thank you
Well this comment certainly made our Friday! Thx so much.
(Once we are done with ya, you’ll be a MWC fan too! 😉)
@@TheBigMountainPodcast what about Portland State?
By the way, UTEP is actually in the Mountain Time zone.
We looked that up right after the video.
Another reason why they could work out well!
M.W. best additions: OSU, WSU, UTSA, UNT. I'm surprised UNT wasn't on your list. Realistically: Montana, SDSU, NDSU, UTEP.
Look into Moscow Idaho. It would be in the conference's best interest to avoid that situation, whatever it is.
You are wrong about New Mexico State University on several accounts. The enrollment is not shrinking and its not 11,000. It's at 25,300 plus. The attendance at football games is growing faster than any other FBS program in the country growing 27% since 2021. It's in a larger metroplex population area than Albuquerque University of New Mexico, who's enrollment is shrinking. When I attended UNM in the late 70s the university claimed to have an enrollment over 35,000 while today it's only about 19,000 with the undergraduate population at 15,000. UNM also has an outdated football stadium that once had a track around the field, making the seats at a bad angle for good view of the field, while New Mexico State has a modern football stadium built for football only, with all seat having a good view of the field. NMSU only disadvantage is the pay the coaches earn, but they are correcting that.
You are absolutely correct with your comments. NMSU gets overlooked by politicians in the state so funding is very limited. NMSU needs to improve their stadium but they are making improvements. They had a great coach with Jerry Kill but looking forward to Tony Sanchez continuing the charge.
Thanks for the info. I have been wondering about this, as the MWC has to be thinking about adding schools, because of the times. The Dakota schools are much closer to the MWC schools than the Texas schools (unless you're measuring from Albuquerque, which is an outlier). If you've ever been to either Fargo or Brookings, you know that these schools are culturally Western schools, more than any Texas school other than UTEP. Both the B1G and the MAC consider these schools to be in the far west, outside their midwest roots, geography to the contrary be damned. Also, I wonder, given that geography is your main criteria, why California schools like Sacramento State and Cal-Davis wouldn't be considered over any Texas school other than UTEP. Is this all about recruiting?
Despite my questions, I really think that you did an outstanding job on this, as usual.
Great point about the culture of the Dakota schools.
Our geography rating was more to “expand” the conference in new states and localities than anything else. Sacramento State has been brought up several times, but we didn’t include due to their proximity to San Jose and Fresno. They certainly could be looked at as well, Especially if Texas is fully off the table, other than maybe UTEP.
But given the travel already required with the mountain west schools, there may not be an appetite to expand beyond the existing borders.
We always appreciate your comments as they are well informed and articulated.
NDSU attendance will increase if they go FBS. Many fans don't go because the reputation is, "Why go if we're just going to win 44-7." Thay would no longer be the case if they join the MWC. In the early 2010s NDSU has one of the most raucous environments.
The problem NDSU might have is their facility is a dome (not easy to expand) and its capacity is something like 18K. And they don't control it. It is actually owned by the city I believe. But if they join the MWC I think they will routinely draw 17-19K.
Just watched this. While I agree that going east is limited, it's even more limited going towards the Dakotas. If the Mountain West would expand into Texas, they get access to a lot of TV eyeballs and a lot of recruiting for both athletes and regular students (look up the enrollment cliff data). This would add to the bottom line for the Mountain West schools. The Dakota schools do not offer either one of those advantages that the Texas schools have. In fact I've never seen any media in the local Mountain West markets say anything about the Dakota schools (since they are off of our radar). The only articles I've seen about them is coming from the Dakota media, or a guest on the Dakota radio stations trying to pander to the local audience.
The Dakotas are in a dead zone when it comes to college athletics. Outside of the Big 10 (which they will never get into) there are no FBS leagues near them. The Mountain West is too far west. The MAC is slightly closer to the east. They missed the C-USA bus when the league was scrambling for teams. The Sunbelt and AAC are also too far away.
The best option for the Dakota schools to make FBS (if that is really the goal of the administrations) is to create a new FBS league. A "snowbelt" league. Idaho, Montana, Montana, State, North Dakota, North Dakota State, South Dakota and South Dakota State is a good nucleus to start at. Find some possible schools to help round out the league (possibly Idaho State, Weber State, Northern Iowa, Illinois State, Indiana State, etc.) and that's the ticket for the Dakotas to finally move up. They won't get into the Mountain West and I highly doubt they will get into the MAC.
Great comments.
Thx for your thoughts!
I can't imagine a team leaving the AAC or Sun Belt for the MWC. The three conferences are comparable on the football field, but the AAC and Sun Belt have better recruiting footprints and higher viewership timeslots.
Actually, most of the data shows the SBC well behind the AAC and MWC in terms of G5 conferences.
But they do have a good recruiting footprint.
@@TheBigMountainPodcastwhat data? Based on sagarin last year it was 1. SBC 2. MWC 3. AAC 4. CUSA 5. MAC
I Live out here in the Dakotas, you are not going to get SDSU or NDSU without the other. They both went up in divisions together and the Administrations work rather closely with each other. Both ADs have said in the past couple of years that they aren't in a rush to go into the FBS. But they have also said that they would listen to whomever came to talk with them.
Thx for this comment and it would make total sense that they move up together.
Interesting take on poaching conference USA schools. It’s the first time I’ve heard that but it does make a lot of sense. You could really make a case for any of the big sky schools and it would sound reasonable 😂
True. Any big sky school wanting to move to FBS would pretty much have to be a MWC school.
Western CUSA schools could make sense for several reasons.
UTEP should be brought back in, they were an excellent partner in the WAC. They are a very good basketball school and have a large football facility.
Agree. UTEP would be a great add here.
Idaho was in the MW for a few years and dropped out. They were generally not competitive and it was too costly for them.
Great video guys! Very interesting subject. Figured I'd see someone give yall a Texan perspective on this but I don't so I'll tell you what I think.
1. If you're trying to get into Texas, UTEP ain't it. Yallve seen the map. They're so isolated from the rest of the state that we don't really hear about them. Them and NMSU would give yall a great rivalry game though. Not to mention both schools being rivals with UNM. UNM would probably throw a fit if they got added though.
2. UTSA is a one trick pony. They're great at football, but that's literally it
3. TXST and UTSA might have the most underrated rivalry in the G5. We put 50k in the Alamodome last year.
4. The MWC really isn't that appealing to TXST. We're already on an island in the Sun Belt but we're still closer to all of the schools in our division than the closest current MTW school is. We don't want to be on an even bigger island. We also enjoy the Sun Belt. It would be a downgrade in football to move. The only thing that might get us to the MTW would be if UTSA came with us. Again, we're on an island now but we are still within weekend roadtrip distance of our division opponents. That wouldn't be the case in the MWC. This same line of thought probably applies to UTSA, UNT, and Rice as well. SHSU might want out of CUSA bad enough that they would accept an invite, but if y'all are inviting them then things are going really really off the rails and the world is doomed lol.
Thanks for this comment!
Good points about UTEP. But being in the Mtn time zone is a plus.
We’d imagine MWC would take UTSA and TXST in a heartbeat.
Fun episode-and good logic behind it all. So much depends on whether PAC12 rebuilds, and who they would poach. Or if the “super league” happens. The cream of the crop at the higher level would indeed be UTSA. But I think you are undervaluing Rice. They are in Houston market, with nearly $8b endowment. They aren’t running out of money anytime soon. If the plan is to go down a click, then yes, the Montana schools are solid. Living in Portland I see both play Portland State and the caliber of football is really good, and both schools travel well.
Great points.
Any PAC rebuild would have major ramifications for this list.
Also a very solid point about going for additive schools vs just adds.
Adds would be needed for a backfill (FCS).
Additive is almost a must for expansion (FBS).
We tried to give some options for both.
I agree with the assessment of each school. I like both Montana and Montana State but I think they are way behind the FBS schools in terms of being targets for the conference. I get the sense that they like where they are at and it would take some convincing to even get them to come over.
We really should be moving hard into Texas by looking at all the schools you mentioned (including NMSU) but also look at UNT. If we do end up getting Oregon State and Washington State, I think that only helps us to be able to pull in AAC schools. After the power schools in the AAC got poached the MWC is the clearly better conference; I think those schools would make the jump to come over no problem. Ultimately we need to look at getting to at least 18 schools.
Agreed with 16-18 schools.
Beavs and Cougs and 2-4 from our list.
A winning formula!
And yes, adding the Beavs and Cougs makes the MWC the top G5 and weight to pull possible AAC schools. Probably the only way to get AAC schools right now.
BTW, love your comment. Thx for being an active member of TBM!
The AAC gets $7M per year through I believe 2031. Doesn’t the MWC only get around $4M?
Their contract is up in a little over a year. It will probably go much higher if they can keep SDSU, Boise, UNLV, CSU & Fresno from finding a new home. Way higher if they end up adding OSU and WSU.
New Mexico St, UTEP, Texas State, NDSU, SDSU, Montana St, Montana , Idaho, Sacramento St
Love it.
Thx for the list!
My theory is that OSU/Wazzu would be first.
Beyond that, I think the easiest pitches to the MW would be schools that were old members of the WAC, as they'd have the leverage of knowing some of the members already. Louisiana Tech, UTSA, Texas State, for example.
Good point about the WAC.
UTSA & TXST would be a great 1, 2 punch in TX!
If you're considering Rice, would it be that much more of a stretch to look at Tulane and Memphis?
We felt like we were pushing the envelope a bit by including Rice and the Dakota schools. Any further east, we would determined to be a nonstarter.
Memphis and Tulane are going to the rebuilt Pac-12 or the rebuilt ACC
A rebuilt pack is very questionable.
But a rebuilt ACC could happen.
Good show. I like the picks. But I would be cautious about adding FCS schools. Just because they have had success at a lower level does not mean that success will translate to FBS consistently.
I think if 4 teams left the MW just add New Mexico State and UTEP to get to 10 schools. Fewer schools means more revenue for each school.
Great point about FCS adds.
But Would love to see one of the Montanas added if they had interest.
As Steve has said many times before, you’d want any addition be additive to a conference, if at all possible.
@@TheBigMountainPodcastMontanas and dakotas are safe adds for sure
Montana and Montana State had shared a conference with schools from the PAC 2 and MWC. Montana was a former c0-founder of the first version of the PAC 10 under a different name along with Idaho. Montana State was part of the RMAC with Colorado, Colorado State, Wyoming, Utah, Utah State, BYU at one point. The Two Dakota schools are safe bets. The two Dakota schools, the Montana twins, and several Big Sky schools have beaten FBS P5 teams in recent years .I would not count them out either.
I’d go for Long Beach State. Already good at baseball and basketball, could possibly be convinced to bring back football … play in Carson at the Dignity Health Sports Park. With the right NIL, and no yearly scholarship limitations, they could build a competitive program much quicker these days.
I'm kind of surprised you didn't consider Sacramento State.
Understandable. They were looked at but we went with Idaho. Either way, they wouldn’t be in our top 4 FCS targets assuming the Dakotas aren’t too far east for where the conference would be willing to travel.
Thanks again for the Q!
@@TheBigMountainPodcast would their media rights company be willing to pay for extra teams, as that is going to determine the MWC moves toward expansion. I doubt any school would be willing to lower their amount of the conference payout to bring in new schools.
I live in Montana, and yes the Grizzlies and Bobcats are popular. But I have to point out the fairly small population base and long travel distances that Montana & Montana State athletics must deal with in terms of fan support. Sacramento State is a more attractive choice for the MWC. Sacramento County alone has half again as many people as does the entire state of Montana. There is plenty of wealth there, being the state capital, and Sac State football has been trending up in local popularity.
We really appreciate a locals comment. Sacramento State has been brought up several times so far.
Thanks a lot for this comment.
Very true, but the time is now as their media rights agreement ends in 2 yrs.
I wish Cal Poly was more competitive in football. They fit in perfect geographically, they are most prestigious CSU regarding academics, and their students get rowdy.
I'm a few days late, but I've been casually following the Big Sky over the past few years since some local high school players and friends have been going to those schools to play football so I'm a tiny bit more familiar with those schools. I think it would be tough to separate the Montana schools, it would be great to get them both since they have a fantastic rivalry and Montana has a great stadium and I think they would fit right in with the of MW schools. Idaho seems to have their athletics as a whole turning around with the football team making the playoffs and a new brand new basketball arena. But the higher ups might be a little apprehensive given Idahos past with FBS football. It would also be a little weird if WSU was also in the conference since the two schools are literally like 5-10 minutes from each other and they both have to share that small local market that WSU already commands, but Idaho always has enough fans to pack the Kibbie Dome. It would revive the 'Battle of the Palouse' rivalry when the losing fans had to walk home. Also if I were anymore than a casual Eastern Washington fan I would be appalled at your blasphemous confusion of who has the red turf, but I'm not lol.
Battle of the Palouse! love it!
That blasphemous comment (lol) was an honest mistake. But we can’t do better!
Adding OSU, WSU, 2 Montanas, UTEP, and TX St would make the PREMIER WESTERN CONFERENCE!
@@TheBigMountainPodcast I agree 100%
Why would Texas State leave the Sun Belt for the MW? Only way that happens is if the PAC 2 eventually fold and end up joining the MW.
ACC implosion is going to leave Wake, Syracuse and BC in the same position as OSU/WSU. Cal isn’t going to want in on that.
Memphis, SMU and Tulane become realistic adds from that point. The new AAC is incredibly weak, and I don’t know how much adding the ACC leftovers helps.
We aren’t for sure an ACC implosion is going to happen.
We have an episode coming out Thursday that you might enjoy. (CFB 2030 - Ep 5)
What are you guys' thoughts on Tulane as an MWC option? In relative terms, USTA and Texas State are only slightly closer than New Orleans to the rest of the MWC.
We stretched it with UTSA and Tx St.
unlikely they go any further east and they may want to just stay pacific and mtn time zones. (Which is why UTEP could be a great fit. Only Tx school in MDT)
Besides Oregon State and Washington State, nobody.
While each and every single school brings one thing, there's another thing that would always work against them. For example: NDSU, SDSU, Montana, Montana State have a great athletic profile (history and facilities) but their location and demographics works against them. UC Davis and Sac State brings location and demographics but their athletic profile works against them (history and facilities).
The MWC is stronger when Oregon State and Washington State join the conference than adding the aforementioned FBS and FCS schools mentioned in the video.
I also recommend you guys to check out D1 360's take on MWC Expansion. The video is assuming that SDSU and SMU would've gone to the PAC, but he provides a deep analysis on each MWC expansion candidate and his Top 3 picks on who should join the MWC: czcams.com/video/tZG8IOwVVA0/video.htmlsi=pUzxy6LSOKDMuZAc&t=2488
I think as far as FCS additions go the Montana schools are by far the best option for a lot of reasons. You probably couldn't get one without the other for the sake of rivalry. The Dakotas would be good, too, but you probably wouldn't go that far east without also adding the Montanas, and I'm not sure if the Mountain West would be interested in adding four FCS schools at the same time.
Agree 4 FCS at the same time is unlikely. 2 could be possible.
I believe the Montana state legislature passes a resolution declaring that the two universities must move up together, if at all.
I live in San Marcos TX (25 miles south of Austin) home of Texas St. Until recently TS FB have sucked. The are the most western most Sun Belt Conference school. At this point not worth taking. Too close to Austin Texas gets all the attention. UTSA & TXST as a pair makes sense. North Texas and Rice as a pair makes sense. Rice was part of the 16 team WAC
Sacramento State Beat Stanford last year and Sacramento is the 20th media Market in the US .
Eastern Washington has the red turf.
Got it. Thx
With the Montana schools, you take em both, are you don’t take either. They’d be a great get, both with VERY rabid fan bases and nice stadiums!
Would love to see both of them in the MWC if they look to go FBS.
I think the MWC’s future depends on the ACC. If a bunch of ACC schools leave for the P2 and B12, then the remaining ACC schools (probably at least 5) would expand to keep P4 status. Since Calford could still be in the leftover ACC along with Wake Forest, SMU, Syracuse, they could first grab WSU/OSU to get to 7). Then the ACC might go after top AAC and MWC schools and be a national conference. From MWC i would expect that SDSU, Fresno St, Boise State, CSU. AF, From AAC USF, Tulane, Memphis and UTSA to get to 16. Leftover MWC schools could add UTEP, NDSU, SDSU, Montana St, Montana, Idaho, Northern Iowa.
I’m a Boise state fan and out of all the schools I think both Montana schools and ND would be the best school for the mountain west.
Thanks for your thoughts. We would agree!
As a Boise State fan, BSU hates Idaho. They’d never go along with helping Idaho out of the FCS. For years the chant was “Idaho, Idaho, ho ho ho, back to The Big Sky you must go!” Note, BSU hasn’t played them since they dropped to the FCS.
Kinda assumed Boise wouldn’t want the Vandals. Better options out there anyway. TX and Montana!
I agree with JY about North Dakota State and South Dakota State. I made a video about potential MAC expansion targets, and I had some comments suggest NDSU and SDSU, but I believe those schools are too far west of what the MAC's footprint should be. NDSU and SDSU are much better suited for the Mountain West.
Also, I believe the MWC would have a shot at getting New Mexico State (as unattractive as that is), and UTEP.
Montana and Montana State are good choices too for the MWC.
Thx Steven.
We seen some other videos that had North Dakota and South Dakota State in the Mac as well. But from a cultural standpoint, they certainly seem to be more mountain than they do MAC.
rice, usf, tulane, memphis
UTEPs stadium is literally surrounded by Mountains
That checks out
Surprised to not see UC Davis on your list. Big research U, funds already approved for stadium expansion.
We have heard that from a few commenters. Maybe a school we can take a closer look at.
Thx for the comment.
I see Mountain West going after Wasrwen Washington and Idaho
Interesting. Thx for the comment!
Montana and Montana State make too much sense, they are FCS juggernauts in both FB & MBB
We hear ya. Both are solid adds when the timing is right.
I agree with you guys for the most part. Add UTEP, Texas State, Montana and Montana State. All a slam dunk. And maybe NDSU and SDSU to the MAC since they are closer to the Midwest.
Hey thx!
The Dakota schools were admittedly a reach. But they are more mountain then Midwest.
The Dakotas are in the Central time zone. So another four time zone conference? The reason the MWC started, 8 schools hated the 4 time zone conference.
Until I see the Montanas move to FBS, then I will believe it! Offer them a spot? Sure. But I’m not convinced they would accept.
Hawaii-football only
Fresno
SJSU
Nevada
UNM
Wyoming
Boise
Utah St
UTEP
NMSU- UNM won’t like it, but tough!
If the Montanas want to move up that makes 12 schools. If not, the MWC is in a tough position. Adding the Dakotas or other Texas schools adds another time zone. a UTEP is in the Mountain time zone. Sac St and Portland St, Cal Poly and Davis, don’t appear to have any interest in moving up.
If the MWC wants to have even numbers for Olympic sports, add Cal Baptist. A schools that cares and spends money to athletics.
@@Lawomenshoops The MAC would be a good landing spot for the Dakotas. Would be a competitive upgrade for the MAC and travel wouldn’t be as drastic.
@@Lawomenshoops thx for the comment. All of this makes a lot of sense. Hypotheticals are fun but can make your head spin.
No school from AAC is going to leave for MWC 😂😂..
In order: Rice, UTSA, U Montana, MT SU, SDSU, NDSU
Thx. Nice list!
Montana and MSU would have to be a package deal, they wont split up.
TAKE’EM BOTH!
@TheBigMountainPodcast as a Montana fan I would love it, however unfortunately lack of a TV Market means we'd probably only be an option if the MWC got poached.
Hear ya.
But we wouldn’t judge!
Who do you guys see being left in the mountain west if the Pac-2 poach some teams? Also could UC Davis be a target? I think they could have a ton of potential.
The list of teams leaving is smaller, so we will list those.
SDST is easily at the top given the history.
After that, either CSU or UNLV.
We don’t see Boise or Fresno leaving. (But who really knows)!
With Oregon St being a baseball powerhouse, how important is baseball to the expansion of thr PAC?
Great Q.
No idea about the answer, but they could possibly stay “independent” like 2024.
I don’t think University of Idaho wants to jump back up to FBS, they are the only team to go from FBS back down to FCS because they were perennially the worst team in all of FBS when they were there.
They dropped down to FCS in 2018
Solid point and you are probably correct.
TV money, TV time slots & recruiting points to Texas.
It’s a long term winning strategy, if they can pull it off.
UTSA would run that conference.
Maybe.
Add:
North Colorado
Montana
Montana State
North Dakota
North Dakota St
South Dakota
South Dakota St
that is a good ideal, as that right there is built in travel pod right there.
We did not include Northern Colorado because of the proximity to CSU. Certainly agree with you with the Montana schools. Curious why you would have SDST so low on your list.
@@TheBigMountainPodcast what about getting into Texas after losing TCU.
@@TheBigMountainPodcast | This is with the assumption that the PAC takes their desired picks of the current MWC:
SDst
BoiseSt
CoSt
AF
Wyoming
Fresno
UNLV
NoCO would be a back fill for the Colorado maket.
Also, history has shown that the Dakota schools typically all move together or in close parallel. The all left the North Central Conference together and UND joined the Summit League to goin NDst.
The schools I mentioned are all rocky mountain state programs in the Summit League or Big Sky Conference.
If im the head of the MWC, I gotta know that the P2 is right around the corner. Regionality has to be at the top of my conference future. Solidifying your core with regional teams will ensure stability. Regionality should be prioritized over expanding a "footprint". No conference commish will come knocking at the door for teams in Nevada, Montana, the Dakotas. However, going the Texas route will surely leave to realignment later.
Don’t forget about UC Davis and Sacramento State
Get Gonzaga. Hawaii keep the football portion.
We would agree!
Lol Idaho is a non starter unless there is promotion relegation league standings. Ndsu and SDSU have earned it. But seriously, OSU and Wazzu, with BSU, SDSU, Utah St, Colo State, AFA, Fresno.... That's a class act conf.
I think that Wazzou and Oregon State should forget the Pac.They should totally make a new Pac strictly based on what kind of conference they want to form. The MWC should take Rice, UTSA, UNT, and Sam Houston. Then, see if Wichita State would rebuild their football.
Wichita State is not bringing back football as it was a money pit for them. there is a pretty good video out there about the school football history including why they shutdown the program.
@@EyeOfTheWatcher I doubt it would happen. But the MWC has to think outside of the box now. Heck... it's 650k people in the Wichita Metro. What else do they have to do if Boise State is there for football?
"That (colege) Football Guy"
Not trying to be an ass.. i watch the show...
Seriously?
Editor error?
Eastern Washington is Red Turf. Idaho is in Moscow and Idaho plays in the Kibbie Dome
Editor error + Type too fast + Poor review.
We are low budget. 😉
You're good. Sorry to put it on blast. But honestly, That college football guy would appreciate that accuracy.... keep it up guys.. good info...
All good.
Nothing like doing a shout and and messing up the name! 🙄
Montana
Montana State
NDSU
South Dakota State
Sacramento State has over 30,000 students.
Weber State has over 29,000
Northern Arizona would get you into a new tv market.
UC-Davis is an AAU school
Long Beach State have been looking at restarting football and wants to join the MWC. Close to 40,000 students and is in the LA market.
Missouri State has the Springfield tv market, and basketball is good.
Lamar is over 17,000 good at baseball to. They brought football thanks to Tubbs and Switzer who both were coaches at Oklahoma.
UTRGV just starting football.
Tarleton State is spending money to join FBS.
Utah Tech is in one of the fastest growing cities in the US. If UNLV is gone? They are not that far from Las Vegas.
SFAU
Central Arkansas in the Little Rock tv market.
ACU is a good one to look at.
There 3 D2 schools to look out for.
West Texas A&M, former D1 and independent in 1A football at the top. Spending a lot of money to upgrade their facilities.
Central Missouri is another to look for.
Central Oklahoma in the Oklahoma City tv market. They are spending money to upgrade their football stadium. Their stadium is closing to 12,000 now.
FBS:
Memphis would get you into the Memphis tv market. They could help trigger more money from the network to expand with them.
North Texas is Dallas market.
UTSA could wind up getting the medical school in the town.
Tulane would be a good target. The AAC is now weaker so if schools like Memphis, Tulane and UTSA wants to be in a better conference? The MWC would be a better upgrade because it is more competitive.
UTEP
Sam Houston State
LA Tech
Texas State is actually the Texas State flagship of that branch in the state.
La. Lafayette
Arkansas State
I left Idaho out from being looked at because they lost the flagship status, and the state is not concentrating on that school as Boise State is growing their academics really fast.
PAC 2 have been thinking of a complete merger and then do a regulation thing when they split, PAC 12 and MWC would formed, and North Dakota State and South Dakota State are on that list. Maybe schools like Montana, Montana State , Weber State and Northern Arizona could fit in along with schools like UTEP, UTSA, Tulane, Memphis, Texas State and Tarleton State as there as well. You could have 12 and 12. The loser of the PAC 2 would move to the MWC while the MWC winner moves to the PAC 12.
So, there are endless directions you could go.
Fantastic run down here.
We really appreciate all the thoughts.
We may have to do a follow up video on this in the near future.
@@TheBigMountainPodcast Yep, there are a lot of R1 and R2 schools on that list that can fit in for the academics make up of The PAC 2 and MWC. North Texas, Memphis, Tulane, Rice and UTSA are R1. La.-Lafayette and Texas State are R1. UTEP is an R1. The FCS R1 schools on that list are UC-Davis, Northern Arizona, UTRGV, Montana, Montana State and North Dakota State. If Long Beach State kept football? They would have gotten the invite to the MWC over San Jose State. It is something in the state of California been talking about with the lack of football schools? They are losing the players leaving the state not playing at home to other states, and it have been talked about several schools like Long Beach, Fullerton State, Northridge State, UC-Irvine, CSU-East Bay, etc.3 schools added or about to play football in recent years are Community Christian College for the NJCAA, Lincoln Cal. Independent and Simpson for NAIA. Keep an eye on the California schools because they don't want to be left behind in the football and all that.