How A Tiny Bent Switch Set A Passenger Jet On Fire | American Airlines Flight 1400
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- čas přidán 4. 05. 2022
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This is the story of american airlines flight 1400. On the 28th of september 2007 an american airlines dc 8 had to make the flight from st louis international to chicago ohare . the pilots showed up at the airport at 11:40 am today the captain would be the one in charge. Once in the cockpit the captain started the engines. But just one problem the left hand engine didnt light. The flight crew let the american maintenance staff know about the problem and the maintenance techs were ready to manually start the engine. As the pilots completed the before start checklist the techs asked the captain to hold the engine start switch in the start positon, as he did that the techs opened the left engines air turbine starter valve, this was an important step in the manual start procedure but the captain saw no movement of the valve from his instruments in the cockpit. On attempt number two the engine roared to life. Flight 1400 was good to go with 143 souls on board.
As the plane taxied the crew scanned the instruments nothing out of the ordinary, whatever the problem was it was long gone. The jet lined up on the runway and the pilots pushed the engines to max power, the plane responded as it lurched forward beginning its takeoff run. Flight 1400 was airborne and climbing. As the altimeter ticked over to 1000 feet the first officer noted somehting. The air turbine starter valve or the ATSV was open on the left hand engine. This was followed by the fire warning on the left hand engine. Engine number one was on fire and they needed to get on the ground as fast as possible. The captain immediately asked the first officer to declare an emergency and to let the controllers know that they were heading back to the airport. At 1:14 pm the first officer started with the fire suppression checklist on the left hand engine. They pulled engine number 1 back to idle. To make sure that everyone was on the same page the captain temporarily handed the plane off to the first officer while he briefed the cabin crew members about the emergency. If this was a serious fire then every second after touch down would be crucial in getting everyone off the plane alive and the cabin crew members would be the ones to do that. After the captain brought everyone up to speed on what he was planning to do he turned his attention back to the plane but now he started losing his electronics, his primary flight display and his navigation panels were now blank.
At 1:17 pm the first officer was still battling the blaze the fire warning light was still glowing bright red, he was trying to deploy the fire suppressants in the left engine and he said “this will not discharge”. Eventually he got both fire bottles to discharge. They had taken one step forward and they were about to take two steps back. The first officer then realized that they had lost all electrical power in the cockpit. As the crew dropped the gear and configured the spoilers hte captain tried the APU or the auxiliary power unit to get back some of their electrical systems, but it wouldnt start they were flying this airplane the old fashioned way. With no power the pilots had no idea if the gear was actually down, the pilots asked the st louis controller to check if the gear was down, the controller had bad news the nose gear was up. They then made the gut wrenching decision to go around. No pilot wants to spend a moment more in the air than he absolutely has to when theres a fire onboard. With a fire there's no telling when everything will fall apart. Literally and figuratively.
As the plane flew by the controller got a good look at the plane the engine was blackened with soot, this wasn't a small fire. As the pilots climbed they asked an off duty pilot in the cabin to help them out in the cockpit. With the new comer taking a bit of the load the captain now could think about how hed put his burning bird on the ground. He knew that runway 30L was 2000 feet longer than runway 30R and with the state that the plane was in he might need every inch of that runway. - Věda a technologie
![[MSFS] 장마 피해서 강풍이 부는 제주도로 비행하기 / 에어부산 A320 NEO](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ek5FBVgiO1w/mqdefault.jpg)
Mad respect to the crew for putting this wounded bird safely on the ground
Outstanding Job
Did the pilot make some procedural errors? Yes. Did he get everyone down on the ground safely and without injuries? Yes. In MHO, that makes the pilots pros, because that is all that matters in the end.
that doesn't mean change shouldn't happen after something like this, other pilots trained in the same way who will make the same errors might not be so lucky when faced with a similar issue. this is why everything is scrutinized in the aviation industry, and why it's one of the safest ways of travel :)
Worth a lot yes, but it doesn't excuse the error. We frown on setting your aircraft alight, particularly during a passenger flight.
Haven't got any manuals at hand, but seems like procedures were adhered to. Except from lighting up that oil burner.
The pilot did a great job, but I was thinking, Get The Plane on the ground. With a fire on board, that was an incredible decision to go around.
The outcome does not always justify the means. It may have been somewhat fluke the flight went as well as it did. It's up to the pilot really to make an accurate assessment in real time if they have the ability to increase the safety of the flight moreso than what following procedure would do.
I really hope the A&P's who neglected checking the filters got canned. I was an AD in VR-52. We flew DC-9s and C-9Bs. I've personally seen, inspected, and replaced that filter (among others) on the engine.
Pardon my language (I am a Sailor afterall), but fuck those guys. That's gross negligence.
VR still alive and well!
Unfortunately, many facilities where C-checks are performed have 1 or 2 A&Ps. Most of the work is done by unlicensed workers.
@@jakem7838 You are correct, depending on the certified repair station that an Airline has contracted to do the C or D check, the FAA requires only a certain percentage of mechanics to be licensed. At the repair station, if the planners had done their job and given maintenance control the work that was required for that engine, the filter would have been replaced.
It's the planners job to do the research prior to the arrival of the aircraft for maintenance.
Of course they do coordinate with the air carrier.
Jeff Noe,, do you have an A and P ??
There are only two types of aircraft mechanics,, those who have their A and P and those who wished they had their A and P. And yes, I have had mine since 1982.
@@70slandshark47 turn off the elitism. Again, their acts are gross negligence.
This is the first time I've heard "suck, squeeze, bang, blow" in reference to anything but a four stroke ICE.
Usually pilots explaining the jet engine use bit more sophisticated terminology but in essence jet engine is ICE so this apply to it.
The captain did a great job! Any time you do a gear-up landing, there will be massive sparks created - especially from the where the nose gear doors are located. These will be thrown the length of the aircraft. If there was any residual fuel leaks (as was indicated after landing), the fire could be instantly made much worse. I don't know if this was part of his thinking, but in retrospect it turned out to be a critical consideration.
That’s not how it works - he can only make decisions based on facts. The facts were that he had cascading failures, and a single-engine go-around with an aircraft that just took off (or heavy) is marginal on a good day.
@@EstorilEm The crew was already severely overloaded. Dealing with gear up on top of that, with no time to prepare for it could also have gone very badly.
Indeed👍
Yeah the captain did it all by himself... Never mind those two other pilots in the flight deck. The public is so ignorant when it comes to aviation. I guess you think the first officer just fetches the coffee.
@@CLR2TKF Ooh those stupid ignorant members of the public.. To mention only the captain like that is frankly unforgivable. The guy who made that comment should be dragged out into the street and shot for his ignorance.
Giving that everyone walked away unharmed after the landing I'd say the crew did a good job. What's more concering, though, is that AA seemed to have falsified their C-check documentation. I hope there was a thorough audit of AA's maintenance after that incident.
(Edit - words are hard!)
AA?
@@K1OIK American Airlines
@@sexyguy3647 Why did you do with the time you saved not typing merican irlines?
@@K1OIK AA is the world renowned shorthand name identifier for American Airlines. Maybe you should lighten up a bit.
@@K1OIK American Airlines - you know, the owner of that plane ...
I agree with you in that the flight crew did a phenomenal job. Their workload was incredible. They were flying with very little information from their aircraft and that information was untrustworthy in the pilot's opinion. With all that, their decisions got the airplane safely on the ground with all passengers safe. The pressure must have been enormous. It appears that any lapses in judgment were not serious enough to add to the danger. Major props to the pilots.
The Devil lies in the Small details. A big modern plane in the air, and its survival was endangered by a small filter valve not being checked by a maintenance mechanic when the big bird was on the ground.
Additionally, they called in another pilot from among the passengers to help out with the workload which also shows, and I quote Mentour here, "excellent CRM". :)
@@vedranb87 I'll trust Mentour's word on that. It is nice to have a spare pilot available when things take a sudden turn into turdsville.
Especially when half the electrical is out, one hydraulic system is failing and an engine is doing that burning thing, which can pretty much melt your tail section clean off.
Would that they could have an awshit button to pause things while you try to collect your thoughts!
@@spvillano Absolutely. :D
Or even better, restart mission. :D
Reload on the ground. Check settings.
6:12 - there is no turbine at the front of the engine it`s at the back. The fan and compressor are at the front.
Good job, Saves me typing this...
The Captain absolutely made the right call, and the proof is in the outcome. He didn’t panic, he used every resource at his disposal (including the off duty crew), made carefully considered decisions, and safely landed the plane. As a pilot, that’s some first-rate airmanship in my book.
"The right call" is the one that gets the plane on the ground safely with no injuries to passengers, crew or those on the ground.....so in this case I would say going around was the right call
Another well done investigation! The pilots made the right choices up to and including getting help from the other passenger pilot on board. Doubtless, their good choices saved lives. 👍
If your plane is on fire you LAND.
He was just lucky he made it around again.
@@TurboMountTV land with a dodgy gear and unwarned cabin, you end up with injured or dead passengers. That's considered a bit of a faux pas... Apparently, passengers are beastly expensive to replace.
@@spvillano Blow up in the sky doesn't make a good headline either. Passengers dont like that. They had no idea on full extent of fire. LAND! Planes have landed with a wheel up several times.
@@spvillano youre riding at low altitude with a fire, no knowledge of what caused failre, one engine, and then hydraulic failure.
Yeah, id just take it down with the main gears
I think the decision to go around was right. But how can you say that they made no errors? They made major errors, including letting themselves get so distracted that they never went through the most vital checklist.
The DC-9 family was an absolute classic. I hope to see more of them converted into cargo configurations
How do you know
@@carnivaltriumphhh3604
Because I’m a doctor
These pilots ABSOLUTLY made right decision. They are heroes. I hope the techs/maintenance people faced charges for not performing proper care of the filter.
I think this captain saved a plane full of lives that day.
Its amazing how the investigators can figure this stuff out. Great video as always!
Another amazing video 🙂 One thing I find missing is the reason why they lost electronics and then some of the hydraulics. I tried looking for it, but all articles focus on the engine fire cause and poor maintenance. I suspect this is somehow addressed in the NTSB report, however I don't have time to read it at the moment.
-I can only guess that the left engine was responsible for supplying power to the electronic instruments and hydraulic lines got somehow damaged by the fire. That's why I don't particularly like the tail-mounted engines design. Still a wild guess though, if anyone has any reliable information on this then feel free to correct me / provide more details.-
EDIT: Finally had some time to look into the original NTSB report and do some additional research. It seems like in this case the electrical / hydraulic system problems have nothing to do with the tail-mounted engines design.
_____________________
1. Loss of hydraulics
NTSB report [section 1.6.3] indicates that the DC9 has two separate hydraulic systems, left and right, powered by corresponding engines. When the fire handle is pulled, a mechanically operated fire shutoff valve is also closed on the system to prevent hydraulic fluid loss. However, the same section indicates that the left hydraulic reservoir was found empty post-accident, while fluid level indicator on the reservoir showed that it was full.
NTSB report [section 2.4.2] describes pilots' response to left engine fire warning and subsequent events. It indicates that Engine Fire/Damage/Separation checklist was interrupted multiple times, preventing pilots from executing critical items, including pulling the fire handle. This would mean that the fire shutoff valve was activated after a significant delay and probably at a point when there was no more hydraulic fluid in the left system due to damage (it's not explicitly stated in the report, but that's one logical conclusion). That's what caused the loss of hydraulics on the left side.
NTSB report [section 1.6.3] also describes the operation of the hydraulic power transfer unit (PTU) that is able to mechanically transfer pressure from one hydraulic system to the other, in case of loss of power. However, the necessary condition to do so, is to have hydraulic fluid present in the receiving system. There was no hydraulic fluid in the left hydraulic system to work with.
NTSB report [section 2.4.2] points out that the PTU was enabled the whole time, and that's what led to depressurization of the right system - the pressure was constantly transferred into the left system that could not be pressurized because of the lack of hydraulic fluid. There is a safety mechanism to prevent it - a shutoff valve should be automatically activated if the fluid level in the receiving system's reservoir is below a certain value. However, as stated before, the fluid level indicator on the left reservoir was broken and showed 'full', so the safety didn't kick in.
NTSB report [section 2.4.2] concludes that: "[...] the pilots’ interruption of the emergency Engine Fire/Damage/Separation checklist at a critical point prolonged the fire and led to additional problems, including the loss of hydraulic pressure, which caused the nose landing gear to fail to extend."
________________________________________
2. Loss of electrical / electronic systems
NTSB report doesn't focus on this one, so it's really hard to figure something out. NTSB report [section 2.4.2] mentions a 'power transfer' occurring as the result of electrical anomalies. I managed to find DC9's electrical system's diagram in a coolsky's DC-9 classic Aircraft Operating Manual and some other sources to confirm it's correct. DC9's electrical system seems fairly similar to MD-80's schematics and based on some online descriptions of MD-80's system operation, I tried to figure out what could have happened.
Similarly to hydraulics, DC9 also has two separate electric systems, powered by left and right engine generators, respectively. Similarly to PTU in case of hydraulics, there's a component in DC9's electrical system that allows both left and right subsystem to be powered by a single engine's generator - the AC Cross-Tie Relay (ACTR). When AC BUS X TIE switch is set to 'Auto' in the cockpit, the AC cross-tie will interconnect the two systems whenever one of the generators is offline.
Initially I thought that's what the pilot meant by 'power transfer', and that's what NTSB report implies in [section 1.1], however when reading CVR transcripts, I found 'power transfer' and 'AC cross-tie' mentioned separately... Moreover, judging from the CVR transcript, the AC cross-tie actually failed and they got a 'AC cross-tie lockout' indication. From DC-9 Operating Manual, this means that the AC cross-tie got somehow locked in 'open' position and was inoperative...
... and after some more digging into the AC cross-tie lockout, I found out that it gets triggered by a high current draw - for example the AC bus being shorted to plane's GND. I think it's a plausible thing to happen during a major fire, but it's pure speculation on my part.
And I can't really explain how it affected the APU deployment (maybe it works similarly to the AC cross-tie lockout, i.e. doesn't deploy APU if a relay is switched to power the AC line where a high current draw has been detected?). And why at some point the electrical power was lost to the whole cockpit (is it supplied only by the left system? because the right one should have remained unaffected...).
So that's basically all I was able to find. Hope I managed to contribute something of value to the subject. Feel free to point out any mistakes. And if you have any knowledge / experience that could offer some more insight into what happened to that DC9's electrical systems, I'd love to hear it 🙂
Same, want to know this.
This looks like an old plane...
@@beckybradshaw3249 Typical of Douglas to use only one engine for hydraulics and electronics.
@@eddiec4536 other companies used both engines - typically powering one side of the aircraft and cockpit. That last turns into meticulously paying attention to the checklists!
Well, according to a report, "A Benefit Analysis for Enhanced Protection from Fires in Hidden Areas on Transport Aircraft," a flight crew has, on average, 17-minutes to get a burning plane on the ground, something to keep in mind when considering the risk of landing without gear.
The crew did their best under the most difficult of situations.
However, i’m not sure I would have gone around with a fire. That plane could have fallen apart at any moment. I’d of definitely continued. Presumably the cabin crew were already briefed for an emergency landing. Their procedures would be the same regardless of if it was a fire or gear up landing.
Having said that, they got a positive outcome so the captain was right on the day!
what happen if they over shot?
Procedures for go-around are still to be followed with a fire on board. Just like if a fire is detected on take-off, and you get past V2, you never abort the take-off.
They are cases of "following procedure may result in an accident, but not following procedure WILL result in an accident!".
That "Continue" will be the hardest call ever to make. But it MUST be made, it's the only way of staying alive !
@@adamjoseph4148 A manageable fire would instantly become a deadly fireball !
How would a plane fall apart by an engine fire lol? You don't sound like a pilot.
@@nihlify really? Do you have any idea how quickly a fire can destroy an airplane? A fire is just about the worst thing in flight.
The correct decision, IMO, would’ve been to land. They were already on final and should have committed to that.
Fires don’t give you extra time to get “ready”.
Oh and if you want to challenge my credentials:
ATP with 12k+ hrs of flight time with multiple type ratings in jets and turboprops. 25 years of experience in commercial flight.
From the perspective as a recently prior Air Force Egress technician, whenever we heard an IFE (In-Flight Emergency) called over the radio, I would always get my hopes up that I would finally see one of our jets eject in-person, but with these much larger civilian aircraft that rely solely on the aircraft and crew to escape horrible death, I commend the crew for getting her on the ground without any casualties. Those are some absolutely excellent cabin crew to get this plane down with unknown problems from the side effects of a massive engine fire and not have a single injury. Sure, you can nitpick at the individual crewmens' activities and what they *should* have done, but in the end - their combined effort lead to the lives saved of dozens of people and that should be the ends-justify-the-means of this investigation. The pilot wasn't under the influence of any intoxicants, nor were the fellow cabin crew making poor decisions themselves, so I for the most part see this as a total save from the crew. That maintenance production should be absolutely hammered for their negligence on the filter, and I'd put them responsible for this accident. Maintainer rant over.
Honestly, it sounded like the crew acted fast and in a reasonable way, the captain was the guy flying, he knew how it felt, I feel like he made the right decision, as you said, a rushed gear up landing would not have ended well, even informing the cabin to be ready to evacuate seems reasonable, he obviously felt like he could get her down, and wanted the cabin crew to be ready for when he did, overall I think they done well in a high-pressure situation with no instruments to help, a pilots skill takes over when all else fails, and they acted in the way they saw fit, thumbs up
As implied by that very significant question posed by the investigator to the Captain "why did you go around" is saying in a completely different, yet identical way, what 99.9% of people would think in their gut namely "Why didn't you get this on the ground ASAP?" With a major fire on board - by the way which has been demonstrated so so often before - quite simply you are doomed unless you can get down and get off in minutes. I can't remember the exact flight number but I recall explicitly a Swissair flight. Within minutes, pilots were overcome and by then, irrespective of what happens to the structural integrity of the plane after that, well.....
So yet another way of paraphrasing the investigator could be, thinking aloud, with such absolutely fast-acting and dire consequences, why didn't you risk a few injuries to get down straight away just because of the extremely marginal contra-procedural action of "not having informed cabin crew".
We can surely infer that everyone a) was seated and b) had on their seatbelts. The only thing we don't know from this clip is whether, due to the electrical issues, the Captain was able to tell everyone "brace brace". Perhaps this is not as marginal as I think... does anyone have stats on the relative survivability of air crashes depending on whether or not the brace position is adopted?
You actually are less likely to be severely injured in the brace position.
My view is that the results are what matter most.
Nobody. Died.
Second guess him all you want, but his choice to take that risk paid off.
Yes, it's arguably the absolute wrong choice, but it still worked.
Stats prove brace position does not improve chances of survival. It does save faces from injuries, so identification by dental records can be carried out.
A very long post, with little aviation knowledge behind.
@@thefreedomguyuk the experiments I saw showed that the brace position does help with specific types of injury possible during a plane crash.
However, given that a plane is a giant hunk of metal and people slamming into the ground, there is of course a point where the brace position does not help.
Great Video, you seem to find these incidents I didn't know about and I watch every Airline incident. Great Work!!!
Great graphics add to your usual detailed narration. Thanks!
You do a great job of explaining in a simple way just what has gone wrong (or right) in these situations. Really super.
With the situation and information the crew had I would have made the same decision to go around. Here is a thing to remember. The caption has 2 seconds to make a decision and the public has years to tear it apart.
Maybe you can do a video on the 1970 crash of Aeroflot Flight 1661?
To my knowledge, it is the only fatal crash caused by a collision with a weather balloon. The instrument under the balloon (a radiosonde about 20 cm in size) hit the nose of the aircraft, causing the weather radar inside the nose cone to disintegrate. This, in turn, led to damage to the windshield. The pilots were incapacitated, and the plane crashed shortly after. All 45 occupants were killed, including all members of an ice hockey team from Novosibirsk, who were on their way to a tournament.
This is such an unusual crash, and I am surprised that not a lot seems to be available about it on the internet. It deserves more attention.
"At those temperatures, what wouldn't burn?" Most metals and high temp materials used in things like, umm...jet engines...
Was there anything said about why their hydraulics and electronics failed? And why the landing gear didn't come down? The ending was a bit abrupt compared to your other vids where you clear up every part of the story that you mentioned.
Landing gear is lowered by hydraulics and electricity is generated by engines, and hydraulics are powered by engines. If engines fail, you can lose hydraulics and electricity. Most planes have backup electricity systems, I don't know much about the DC9 so I don't know if it has one, but it could have been inoperative at the time.
@@YHDiamond but also, their right hand engine at no point failed, so that makes it even stranger
@@MrXPeaceLP some avionics are powered by the left engine. So it may have been the ones that failed
Engine 1 was down so power and hydraulics would be down. They may not have had a generator on the second engine but there would have been hydraulic pressure provided. There must have been some to get the gear down. I am pretty sure the primary flight controls were manually operated so a ram air turbine wasn't a part of the design so that mean no third back up of hydraulic pressure or electrical. Not sure why the APU didn't provide some power but I'm guessing the wiring probably was bundled and got scorched so the redundancy was gone. Remember this is a much older plane so having 3 redundant and separate systems on it wasn't crucial back then especially given the size of it. There's been later cases on newer planes where all the wiring was ran in one trunk and once the fire took it out it didn't matter which generator was operative since all electrical connections were severed. Same for mechanical controls where fires have melted and warped them as they all ran in one trunk. Freak accidents with a chain of events. That's how we learn
Yeah it's called fire from the engine could have damaged the hydroluc lines since the heat signature was hot by the airport fire crew that did the thermal scan
It was a DC-9-82 (certificate name), or MD-82 (marketing name), or MD-80 (generic name).
Favorite quote ever "Give it enought time and it will have the engine running in no time."
That's an amazing piece of aviation. I'm always amazed at how pilots cope in this sort of situation -- I'd be a gibbering wreck. I live in awe.
Another great video, well done and thank you.
as a saint Louis resident, My father watched this flight as it flew directly over our house at around 200 feet, a really weird sight to see, as I live about 1-2 miles away from the airport, with a burning engine
Love these. Good job again!
Tough call to go around but glad they all made it back safe and sound
That had to be a tough call, an Aircraft fire is the worst case scenario, glad it happened right after takeout and near the Airport.
According to CZcams this is my 5000th liked video! 👍 thanks for yet another fascinating video.
Thank you for making these videos.
You've done another great video. Thank you.
"at those temperatures, what WOULDNT burn?"
me (high af) : WATER!
Technically the truth!
@@MiniAirCrashInvestigation AYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
@@MiniAirCrashInvestigation no but seriously I love your videos
plz keep it up
Super fascinating details . Well done video.
Kudos to the captain and the FO on this flight, their actions most likely saved everyone. What may seem stupid at first take often makes the difference in these situations. That captain not only saved everyone's lives on board, but he also prevented a much larger disaster from occurring. Aircrafts can be replaced and repaired. Human lives can't be replaced. Great video.
FYI There are no turbines "right up front (of the engine)," but there are rotors that with stators compress air for combustion! Other than that, GREAT VIDEO! 👍🏽
Semantics... Its a disk of blades that does work upon air, so I imagine with that definition you could call it a turbine. I know what you mean from an aviation terminology standpoint though.
It's called a compressor.
@@BobbyGeneric145 Nah...you can't call it a turbine, because it's NOT! Terminology means everything in this business!
@@BobbyGeneric145 Is not just semantics. Is like calling the ailerons rudder, or call fuel the oil. Completely different things.
@@michaeldavenport5034 Uh yeah, it has high & low stages! 🤨
Great explanatory illustrations!
There's no way I would have gone around with a fire. A nose gear issue is in a different category of safety that can be handled much more easily than a fire that has not responded to two discharges of fire bottles. They were skilled, but also very lucky.
Has anyone else read this man’s description box where he includes his written summary of the incident/accident? Hate to call it a summary bc I feel like it almost minimizes it, but I highly respect the amount of work that is put into this channel. It really shows. I had forgotten the date this took place and didn’t want to rewind back, so checked there and damn that’s commitment!
Interesting, descriptive, you really put some time into it. Thanks.
Of course he made the right call! He walked away from it didn't he!!!
Kudos to the crew. Got to say I would have landed the plane knowing what I know was going on. History says the crew got it right & everyone got home, thanks to them.
6:15 It’s a compressor; turbine is the part that gives power to drive the compressor and of course produce the thrust and so on
Came looking for this. A turbine is turned by the exhaust gas flow in a jet engine, the compressor and turbofan are turned by the turbine via a shaft or shafts (2 in the case of the JT8D).
VERY GOOD!!! THANKS!
🙂😎👍
But why the electrics and right side hydraulics failed? How you put it it looks like the fire was serious but somewhat contained to N1 engine. I fail to see the other issues.
Maybe the bleed air pressure in reverse to the small starter turbine fucked up every other line around, but the right hydraulic system is on the other side right?
They're interconnected actually. The L1 engine not working probably disrupted the hydraulic system on board which in turn affected R1 engine.
They did a heroic , epic , awesome brave and wise JOB !!!
The air crew earned their pay and more that day....👏👏👏
Made the right call. He was close to Airport, engine fire outside of Aircraft. The hardest part was lack of instruments. He did good, if the plane was ablaze I'm sure he would have set it down with no Nose Gear, nose gear not a big deal you will just slide, but you don't need Nose Gear for steering, the rudders would have kept him straight down the centerline. Great job by both Pilots, they did exactly what you should and that's 1. Aviate 2. Navigate 3. Communicate
I really don’t think it was the correct call to go around.
However, it’s easy for me to say as I sit at home in the comfort of my arm chair. The crew got the right outcome, so hats off to them!
Smooth landing you made
Going around is far better than going in, well done sir.
Salute to the crew!
The picture of the burnt engine was a huge clue: This time the plane won't crash severely.
What a well done video. A terrible accident but how fascinating to watch.
I got addicted to this program
Good call by the Captain.😊
Today, the captain was in charge. Um, the captain is always in charge. I think you meant he would be the PIC, or that he'd be flying the plane.
The captain got the plane on the ground as safely as possible. That's worthy of respect.
That's utterly CRIMINAL that a filter got so deteriorated that a post of it blocked the airflow
Captains choice on the go around or go in. No injuries so he chose right.
IMHO the pilots did a fantastic job and it deserves incredible respect, the choice to go around, maybe this would have become a fatal incident if they landed on first attempt.
I think an incredible feat by the pilots.... who is right to criticise pilots in such a situation, they did incredibly well. by managing to get the broken bird safely to the ground
Insanely well done 😍
I always love your tech diagrams and explanations.
CRM seems to have been shaky at first, but bringing in the off-duty pilot was a smart move to improve the situation.
CRM ?
@@K1OIK Crew Resource Management.
I liked the, "This part" ... "blocked this part."
@@mbvoelker8448 So why didn't you say that? Trying to show how smart you are by leaving out rew esource anagement?
@@K1OIK Most watching this kind of content are familiar with aviation acronyms.
Just like people watching car videos know their BHP/MPG/KPH/EFI/RPM/ECU/TCS
Amazing presentation & analysis. Thank you! Disclaimer: I am not a pilot. Despite limited prep time I think the pilot should have not done the go around. But he did and luckily was able to demonstrate excellent airmanship. Swiss 111 set the rule that any fire meant immediate landing. While the risk of hydraulic pressure was not detected until go-around the effect could have been disastrous. Making that decision was risky but worked for them. Love how they pulled in a 3rd to assist, the way United pilots were supported by a flying passenger/pilot in Sioux Falls ‘89. Glad all ok. Great story, thanks!
He sure did make the right decision too go around evidenced by no deaths
my day is made! thanks so much for all the great content! ❤
Sully was lucky too but he got rewarded handsomely for his luck despite violating the sterile cockpit rule and wrongly choosing not to immediately prepare for a return to LaGuardia
Thanks!
GOOD SHOW
An engine problem. It starting and only starting after two manual starts , um is definitely not long gone! No way should this plane even thought about leaving even with a mundane engine problem!
@mini air crash investigation, you are magic mate , how you found this incident and the research to go with it , great stuff mate
So glad they landed safely 🙏
In the Description is a Typo, it is written, that the plane was an DC-8 instead of an -9
" All for the want of a nail"
"The Kingdom was lost!"
They lived, thats where my armchair quarterbacking ends.
The pilot was clearly more uncomfortable with landing than with going around. It's easy to second guess, and it's easy to judge on the outcome rather than the merits of the decision. Here are the "couldas".
1. Go around. Airplane falls apart. Crash. People die.
2. Gear up landing without fully preparing. Sparks. Fuel. Big fire. People die.
Basically, either choice was reasonable for the circumstances, and either choice could have ended well or badly. (And he made his choice and it ended well.)
The plane was under no risk of falling apart during the go around. Jet engines are separated from the fuselage for a reason. If the fuselage was on fire, different story.
Sounds a lot like a “runaway diesel”. Pretty much what happens is air gets sucked into the engine, it gets compressed from the force of the other pistons, detonates (make fire), and then releases the exhausted air. That’s how diesels work, but a runaway diesel is when the pressure of the the crankshaft has more energy than it does for a detonation. This means that the engine keeps spinning, even if you don’t give it more throttle. Once it starts, it spins really fast, and blows up because the heat; unless you are able to suffocate it by blocking air flow (covering the air filter).
This doesn’t happen on regular has cars because they require a spark to make it ignite; while diesels use the compression of the air.
That the crew lacked CRM is due to lack of training. Within the skill sets that they had they did a perfect job. Even finding an off duty pilot to help. The go around was just plain good judgment in an emergency. Definitely saved the plane. What I find odd (again) is the decision to fly with an engine that would not start. I feel that an unidentified intermittent engine fault should have rendered the aircraft unserviceable, which it was as it turned out. The crew should never have been given that aeroplane.
I respectfully disagree on the go around; a fire is a very time critical event; with the ram air effect it could have easily caused a crash and total loss, I would have put it down on the nose and main gear. airline History is full of total losses due to short duration fires on board.
I agree, any engine problem is reason for further investigation and transfer passengers to different plane or reschedule. It's not like azcar where the mechanic takes a hammer and if it starts all is good to go but that's basically what was done, at the risk of all lives on board. Some things just should never be taken lightly.
@@sparkyobrian6417 Yeah, I agree with you. Fire onboard is the most dangerous and time-critical emergency there is. _Much_ more serious than inoperative landing gear -- especially nose gear. You gotta get the plane down on the ground ASAFP!
144 people on board, one didn’t have a soul😂
The company lawyer was on board. *Not meant to be a factual statement.
Must have been a ginger onboard
@@nonna_sof5889 Good one, your 100% correct, I've yet to see a lawyer with a Soul. I bet he handed out his Business Card as people were being evacuated. As you slid down the slide he would be standing there with business cards for everyone
5:50 On a turbofan, the front blades are the fan, they make the vast majority of the engine's thrust output. The next set of blades are compressor blades, there may be 2 different shafts driving the lower pressure compressor stages and the higher pressure stages. Then there's a combustor which looks like an expensive donut with a ton of fuel injectors machined into it. At the very back of a turbofan, there are turbines, sometimes mounted to a single shaft, sometimes they're mounted to different shafts to drive different stages of the compressor and the big fan in front. Sometimes these are known as a 1 spool, 2 spool, and 3 spool turbofan engines.
I'm just an auto technician.
well James You have it correct. What amazed me was the starting fuel flow. You are pumping fuel through the engine faster then you can in buckets. Then watching the flow increase during a performance run. 16,000 pounds per hour on an RB211 at takeoff power.
Being a non-pilot, I can only imagine the difficulty of trying to land an airliner without a nose wheel (or even with one for that matter), but I initially questioned the go-around decision also; but hearing the captain's logic, it seems an impeccable decision to me.
Sure, there's always something to learn in order to improve CRM but I think Captain and First Officer did extremely well in an extraordinarily difficult situation.
If be curious to know how many hours they had flown together. Perhaps the Captain knew FO well enough and that FO would speak-up if he did not believe himself capable of fulfilling the assigned duties so believed it reasonable and prudent to personally brief Number One. (Someone get FO a wheelbarrow to carry that pair around. Does he need a special seat with a notch cut out so that he can sit in the cockpit? Flying, checklists AND radio during a MAYDAY. Wow!)
As to the go-around with fire lamps illuminated, I can see arguments either way and, because he had a clearly thought out reasoning for making the decision, at worst, the company can issue new guidance if they wish. He did what he thought was best which means that he "thought." I'm not gonna cattle-class fly for him.
Great video, thanks again!
If I'm on that plane or worse someone I love, with an in-flight fire I want the captain to put it down gear or no gear. Statistics for in-flight fires show that every second can count. I'd rather risk a no gear landing than a go around in a burning plane.
IMO ALLEGEDLY
That's not the correct way of viewing things.
One might get away with a gear-up without fire breaking out. But with an aircraft already on fire, a gear-up is likely to end in a much bigger fireball incident.
Stats are proving procedures to be correct. If stats were against procedures, those procedures would no longer be procedures.
@@thefreedomguyuk id rather have a fire on the ground with emergency fire crews on standby than in the air with multiple failing components.
Engine fire, engine shutdown, avionics failure, and then nose gear failure all at low altitude is a sign to get the thing on the ground asap.
These guys got lucky
@@mikeyorkav4039 no nose gear can generate sparks, very bad when there's an uncontrolled fire
Man, I’m in a serious work meeting discussing all the nurses who work for me and I am just thinking ‘I want to watch this new episode!’ 😂
The Captain would have been criticized if he
did not go around. As a trained professional,
only the captain was responsible to make
the proper emergency call.
I've taken that flight frequently, more so around that time, and I hadn't heard of this incident. Crazy. I can't think of another video covering an STL incident.
The engine runs itself? Ah yeah so does my car. All engines run themselves
That captain knew what he was doing. Probably not his first "rough flight" by the way he handled things.
As much as the peanut gallery, and the official report even, insist on ragging on the crew over "procedures," I'm NOT under the impression they even would have made it if they were sticking to the book as hard as some of the uninitiated want to play.
The plane is sending curveball after curveball, and he masterfully dealt with some pretty integral stuff that folk love to overlook until they're in similar situation and either notice it's missing, or can attest to how the extra added care and assistance of the crew would have literally been the differentiator for them even being able to recount the experience.
Procedures have their place, but sometimes experience and intuition are what gets everyone out in one piece, verses other instances where playing with the checklist literally netted them a smashing date with the ground.....
So was I the only person with a dirty mind who giggled at “suck, squeeze, bang, blow”?
A gear up landing with that engine fire could have turned into a fireball.
Very easily, even very likely. That's why procedure is to not continue the landing
I’m an emergency. One pilot flies the other handles check lists and radios so that is exactly what they are supposed to do.
the captains decision is vindicated by a safe landing and no injuries....
Yes I respect the Captain's decision to go around (TOGA).
Good decisions, good job.
Wasn't there, have no idea of the massive task load they were facing, so wont attempt to "sunday afternoon quarterback" their decisions. The plane landed safely and no one was hurt, sounds like a success to me
Yes that captain did the right thing since fire crew did a thermal scan found serious heat under the plane with nose gear not down landing that plane on its belly would have had more serious problems