The Holy Ghost pours out his Spirit and brings the increase in the name of Jesus. The latter rain proceeds the second coming and it is what waters the seed. Without the Spirit of God no one is saved. Believe in your idea of Jesus till the end of time, it does little good. You need to accept his ambassador and representative. So when the Holy Spirit shows himself and is rejected that is the unpardonable sin. To grieve the Spirit of God is to reject life. The supreme witness of Jesus Christ (King David) is reporting for duty. He was a man whose tongue held no lies, For he was the direct descendant of our father in the heavenly skies. Born to a body of fleshy sin, Though what laid beneath was unlike the rest of his kin. Jesus had the utmost grace, Never being wavered by evils face. He was wise beyond any years, Performing miracles that would bring crowds to tears. A beacon of light on top of a starless mountain, Where words of wisdom poured out of him as if there ran a cosmic fountain. His eyes pierced through you with a single glance, Leaving even the most hardened individuals in quite the trance. The Holy Spirit so ever majestically flowed inside this man, Naturally people caught notice and became a fan. Students began showing up from every mold, When they heard his words their hearts were sold. Wicked men put a price on Jesus's head, He was wanted alive or dead. Despite this he and his disciples continued their teachings, Where on occasion they endured terrible beatings. One of the twelve apostles turned to black, No longer having Jesus's back. Judas Iscariot had done Satan's bidding, And it is in hell where he now is sitting. Jesus died on the cross to pay for our shortcoming, However don't be saddened for if you believe in him you will see him at your homecoming. There he sits at the right hand of God's throne, Being the voice of truth and love that we all have known. Satan's tongue is coated in a layer of deceit, And he tramples over promises with his feet. He's a being who is bound by deceptions, Whose very essence oozes with misconceptions. He struggles to look you in your eyes, For his gaze holds nothing but lies. On occasion he will give you his hand, But don't be fooled by his stand. He seeks to corrupt your heart, You would be wise to avoid him from the start. Seeking quick pleasures and casting aside love, He traverses this land with push and shove. Now Lucifer was once not lost, But pride blinded him at a cost. Disobeying God he waged war, Becoming detestable to the core. Today he is the ruler of Earth, Though for all his power he has no real worth. However most of us have still been sold, Giving into sin and becoming cold. Nearly everyone is a puppet dancing on strings, Marching to delusion for their unjust kings. My people have given into lust, Becoming robots full of rust. However you my child are the exception, So when you meet me don't forget to mention. That you alone have been granted the key, And before your glory they shall all bend a knee. P.S.- Not too long ago I was very bitter and destructive. Literally I was covered in blood from head to toe and ripping off nails and things of that nature. In my mind Jesus was against me, he had a vendetta against me which I couldn't account for. Then slowly but surely I started having these revelations, and began delving into the word of God. It seemed like my agony was not in vain. The things which held me back eventually began to propel me forward. The darkness began fading away and an unspeakably bright light was surfacing. Jesus told me that he had to break me in order for me to rediscover who I really was. Sort of like a phoenix rising from the ashes. Today I am almost fully healed in every conceivable way, and things like being a virgin and being covered in scars I strangely enough take much pride in. I took up my cross and followed Christ and in doing so I discovered the greatest love of all.
Something I love about Jordan's podcasts and lectures is that I frequently hear something in them that causes me to hit pause and go off on personal journeys of internal discovery and mulling things over in my head to make sense of them. I can't think of too many other people that elicit this response in me and it's a wonderful thing when it happens. Thanks for what you do Jordan.
I’ve done the same, I’ll hear a statistic (I’ll note at when time in the video) then I’ll go find the studies & research findings & make notes. So if I quote or repeat something I can cite the source or sources and how many citations. Not every video stance is the same in one interview he said he would view any data saying there is no differences in male and female brains. There are, but I agree with his findings on IQ & personality. Men and women are very similar there, but where the differences are can be found at the ends of the spectrums.
This is one of those moments in which I feel beyond grateful for modern content sharing platforms. How else would we have such instant (and free) access to a brilliant dialogue between two geniuses like Peterson and de Wall. Absolutely amazing stuff.
Lmfao, de Wall? It's like biden in office when native english speakers try names. It's de Waal, de Waal is a river running through the netherlands. A for effort tho
The Mudpit, It seems as if you “heard” Esaif’s comment aloud by the “sound” of things. This could go on forever or onr could just read into what you know he meant. The tee hee was nice though. Cue up next clever unclever comment.
Unlike many modern day 'manufactured crisis', this was indeed a true moral dilemma. If we do nothing Hitler could potentially take over the World. Yet, since we did something, Hitler was defeated. Yet a crack of doom was opened when we achieved the atomic bomb. I think this was an unjust war since many Japanese had perished in the blast. Yet there does not seem to have been any other way than a 'just war'. I am reminded of Matthew 19:6 New King which states, "So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” I suppose the same could be said of the atom -- what God has joined together, let not man separate.
Does anyone else find themselves being alone watching a discussion and verbalizing thoughts as we walk through ideas? I love that we can be invited in on a focused conversation and puzzle out things. It helps me a lot to put things together and I find I learn so much!
Dr. Peterson, I really hope one day you’ll run across one of my comments so I can thank you for your incredible work and for your courageous diligence in defending your work. I’m a mother to a brilliant, energetic, 6 year old boy. I literally shudder when I imagine how I might have raised him without the insights you’ve given me into the biological, social, and emotional developmental needs of boys. The women are listening too…..especially moms with sons. Please keep teaching us. Maybe a dedicated parenting book….? 😉 I love everything you put out and I’m gonna pick up DeWaal’s new book too. Fascinating interview!!!
What a beautiful kind intimate compliment to Dr. Peterson. So inviting to those of us just getting acquainted with his work, encouragement to explore and trust that here in the defense of traditional "manliness" might be preserved some very useful guidance to avoid sleep walking through the woke status quo.
That's the objective. Maturity requires that we learn from one another, and... it also shows that we need to "rough house" intellectually, something that ignorants, npc's, commie zombies, antifa creeps, BLaM'rs, feminist baby killers, female sociopaths of The View and their ilk, Karens, government democrats, Rinos, Twitter, fb, youtube staff and their censorship advocates, and all other leftist imbeciles are incapable of doing or are triggered by it and must throw tantrums like chimpanzees.
This is a super fascinating conversation. Every few minutes, I was going back to my childhood and how this talk was spot on about how I acted with my friends when I was a kid.
I took a class in psychology in collage and found it very fascinating. I'm now a retired Aerospace Machinist but have raised canines mostly gundogs for over 52 years as well as over 270 species of other animals, including many endangered species. I have found puppies must have physical play and learn a pecking order. We always see that a single pup in the litter does not learn to control their bite strength or how rough the play and turn out to be "terror nippers" and starving for hyper play. They play bite hard and bite your hands often drawing blood. The problem is if humans try to correct the problem, the pup will more likely than not bond properly or want to please their human pack leader. The mother can help sometimes, but the pup may just avoid playing with her. Nothing works better than placing a single pup in with other pup/s around the same size or slightly larger than they are. Fortunately, pups with littermates learn early on how to control their bite by the time they are weaned. but I have found that all single raised pups without rough play with other pups will always have problems with bite strength. The more littermates the better their bite control and the more well-adjusted and pack socialized they will be.
Wonderful conversation. My father had a Roman nose and did business with Arabs in Africa many years ago. He once told me that when dealing in business with them, they needed to speak "nose-to-nose" with him in order to sense his breathing to gauge his honesty. Close space was very important to them.
Epic!! Very needed teaching in our society!! I was raised in the country w brothers and many children and my son was an only kid d/t me not being able to birth more. I noticed this lack of competition for him so i made sure he got lots of playground play, put him in every sport he wanted to try. Sent him to camp. Kept cousins close. He came out fairly balanced. He does have some only child issues but he is vastly different than other "only" children I've observed. Our school culture has got to stop pushing our boys down. Give them outlet.
1:00:00 I've recently learned that I am autistic so I'm seeing the world in a whole new way as I learn more about my blindspots. I would absolutely love to hear more from JP about female hierarchical systems and psychology!
Thank you very much for the great conversation... Frans de Waal is one of my personal heroes... Just read one or two de Waal books and you immediately understand how it is nearly impossible to understand ourselves as a species and to solve our major social problems without perceiving ourselves as part of the animal kingdom and without recognizing many evolutionarily continous traits and behaviours between other animals and us.
Jordan Peterson never fails to make me question my own thinking about so many subjects. Sometimes these conversations take me into an internal conversation with myself that lasts for several days. While this conversation was brilliant it was also easy to absorb and I feel lucky to be able to access it in my living room , car , or out and about. Technology isn’t all bad! Thank you for bringing up Mr. De Wall
Marvelous discussion! I vote for a sequel. Or, a mini series? There is much to discuss. We are losing our "human culture" to the degree that we are losing our gender roles and being socialized to the point of isolation and forced into virtual worlds. This kind of study helps to clear the fog and confusion of what is natural and necessary and what is nonsense re-programming .
Thank you very much indeed for making this whole conversation public now. I was distressed with the abrupt end of the amputated version, but now I will watch the whole thing again from the beginning. This conversation is so thought-provoking, and there cannot be too much of that.
Super neat. Thanks JP. I've taken my son to a few of your talks. Very cool to have you introduce us to someone else who is importantly well-considered. You've made a materially-positive difference.
1:37:50 The importance of sense of smell in connectivity to others. During Covid I lost my mother and was unable to be at her bedside during lockdown. I ventured into all the perfumes and fragrances that women in my childhood wore. I purchased the most significant one and to this day find comfort with the olfactive experience. This has helped me in my grief journey to this day.
How lucky we are to live in an era where interaction on this level takes place with such frequency and flexibility and even more so that we have access to it. I am so incredibly fortunate that in my old age I can keep on learning and extend my knowledge and my range of interest despite limited means. Thank you, gentlemen both
Jordan (if you should see this), I was listening to this conversation for the 2nd or 3rd time and only now did I pick up on the bit about Tiffany Fields(?). I was born 8 weeks premature in 1985 with many problems (placental abruption, hernias, respiratory distress, etc) and I would spend the first 18mo of my life in and out of oxygen tents at the hospital. My mother swears up and down that I got better when a nurse there stayed overnight after her shift "burping" me to assist my breathing, during the Christmas holiday. She always regarded it as a miracle. I never knew how much credit to give to that story. I know it's anecdotal, but here I am.
This is such a breath of fresh air. This difference in behavior, culture, and role models across the species shows the degree to which political ideologies are full of crap.
I read a lot about different subjects, especially science-related topics, and it always seems like I just go from one topic to the next without ever using the subjects in any conversation. Your podcast makes me remember things I've read previously and rehash certain topics that were in the deepest recesses of my mind. It also helps that many of your guests are authors I deeply admire and like. Thank you for that. You also seem like a very genuine and authentic person, please keep doing these podcasts.
A 50% decline in bullying is a marvelous result! This book ought to be taught at Every facility training teachers, principles, pedagogues and social workers then. Bought my copy immediately. Thanks for the suggestion!
Jordan, I worried about my young son during his father’s breakdown and eventual death. The woman that counselled us suggested I give him my worn shirt with my scent on it to snuggle at night. He slept peacefully and seemed overall happier. I didn’t expect that magic.
I'm an introverted only child. Yep, you guessed it, my skills at conflict resolution are almost non-existent. I wasn't big on having friends over as a small child and only occasionally spent meaningful time with my cousins. As even a small child, i always preferred the friendship of boys, I didn't have conflict with them like I did with girlfriends. It was while contemplating whether to have a single child with my husband that I really began to analyse my own situation. I had grown up, occasionally berating my parents for making me an only child... Only to realise while still quite young, that I only ever actually desired an older brother (LoL), I had not desire for a younger sibling, nor a sister of any age. I figured that what I wanted was an additional 'protector figure' and a peer to look up to. Even as an adult I regularly form deep friendships with men and refer to them as 'my brother'. I actually married one of them!! There must be a pathology in there🤣 I should also mention that my father died shortly after I turned 17, this cannot be a coincidence. Anyway, I had already become aware of my weakness in conflict, including resolution and taking those times of conflict personally while struggling to let them go. When discussing these things with my Mum (relating to her relationship with her 3 brothers) and my husband and his relationship with his brother, it was not difficult to draw the connection to being an only child. When we did eventually have a single child ourselves, I based the decision to not have more on his personality and willingness to be social. He, like me despite being introverted, was confident in talking to adults, even those he didn't really know (even as a toddler!) He was confident and chatty, plus did not become anxious when left alone, so I simply (probably far too simply) resolved to ensure he had maximum opportunities to socialise with peers and attended play groups at the first opportunity and always insisted on team sports rather than individual sports. He is now 18, he is clearly introverted, but open and friendly, so I think I did ok.
Was this humor or did you not hear that after 4 children are socialized by their peers....so removing your child from their peers to only be with you all day long would be a horrific thing todo to your child in their development that would effect them for their entire life.
Homeschooling scares me. I don’t want trained kids no matter how you slice it. Many children will fight for their lives anyway. I would never have endured being homeschooled. My mom was my 5th grade teacher though. I remember her helping me with homework zero times in my entire life. I didn’t need any, but I might have respected her if I thought she was smart and cared about me. Her generation only cared about a girls reputation 😂 I’m a mom now. It would be so depressing to me if I could just be like, ‘oh, I’m homeschooling now’ and my kids went along with it. Some people are incapable of being broken and completely domesticated. They won’t go against every grain of their nature, they will not be robbed of their freedom, beliefs, and autonomy by anyone. Yes, I believe you mean well, but if you RAISE your kids and teach them common sense, critical thinking, current events, philosophy, religion, some history etc. They can go to school almost anywhere. You raise them, but not for a livestock show. Let the government have a shot at them. You’re the one who teaches them what’s important You probably have more homogeneous genetics and culture in your family. Oh, I would’ve given anything to have grown up in a small town and not on the border. I might be capable of showing off about having good little calves
@@dal8963 what if their peers are dumb, have herd mentality, don't have morals, are borderline sociopathic, mean or just plain assholes? I'm asking a legit question.. If ideas spread why wouldn't a bad idea spread as well? Kids need to socialize and everyone knows this, no one would say otherwise because it's pretty obvious at this point. However the way you are phrasing it has a creepy undertone. Why? Because you are implying something very dark by omission. And it's this.. Peers and friends are only found in schools because there is no community and people don't go to parks with their kids and they only live in cities stacked like sardines in a can and the sardines only interact with other sardines when they go to school.
@@dal8963 you are also forgetting or assuming idk, that every child that lives in the same street goes to the same school. And if you use a really small town where everyone knows each other as an example then what makes them peers to each other would be the fact that they live in a town with 1 or 2 schools max. Which makes the perspective of peers only coming from schools meaningless. In my opinion peers have been relegated to the internet which is sad but still I don't believe that separating someone from their peers by homeschooling perspective. Have a nice one 👍
I am truly “blown away” with this superb conversation. I have long followed Dr Peterson but I have now added Dr Frans de Waal. Both are excellent and together superb.
I LOVE intelligent conversations. So , I'm busying myself around the house with a grin on my face listening to this dialog. My wife wanted to know what 'song' I was listening to in my headphones. That is significant.
Never have i adjustied my position on my chair while watching something to give it my full attention as i do when watching Professor Dr. Peterson and his podcasts. This man's intellect and way of observation automatically forces you to go like "This is more important than whatever i am thinking of right now" . My utmost thanks for you Dr. Peterson for keeping it REAL.
Thank you! I love this as a play therapist! I would love you to interview a person who studies elephants. I was in Africa once, and had the opportunity to observe elephants, and I found it beautiful in the family system, social construct, m/f/kiddos in the world of elephants. One might find the interview enlightening
This was such an eye-opening discussion. I definitely have masculine traits but aggression was never one of them. It's insanely difficult for me to tap into that part of myself for more than a minute or two, especially in a healthy way. Looking back, I had very little opportunity for rough play as a kid. Also, my kids' school is the same when it comes to letting the kids play. No more snowballs, no more dodgeball. My kids just told me this week that if they want to play baseball they have to use a tee with a really soft ball. And no bat. You smack the ball with your hand. Are you kidding me!?
This is horrid. This is part of the huge problem we have in so many people being fearful, and narcissistic. Adults are terrified of putting healthy limits on children, while at the same time becoming "helicopter" parents. They all are afraid of plain old life! I wonder if this was part of why so many people went along with the shutdowns in 2020. A healthy society does not tell all the youthful, healthy people to live like shutins. The vulnerable people do that. Not healthy ones.
Thank you, JP for bringing in one of my mostly important intellectual figure. It was a pleasure to watch you both talk about SENTIENCE. I'm currently doing my PhD on this topic. It's fascinating when biology meets philosophy. You guys gave me important insights on your talk. Thank you 💜. Hugs from Brazil 🇧🇷.
Hi Dr. Peterson, I have been watching your content for about a year now and this episode is definitely one of my favorites! :) I think I have some feedback that hopefully, you can consider to improve the viewer experience and grow the channel: 1. According to my observation I think you have a tendency to cut other people when they're talking when the discussion gets really interesting (both for you and the viewers), especially when the other person is someone that you are a big fan of. I'm sure you saw all the comments in the Richard Dawkins episode talking about this too. I reckon you did better here compared to the Dawkins episode, but still, there were times when I wish Frans de Waal had more time to speak! I also think this happens because sometimes the discussion gets very technical that it is hard to follow for the general public, and when the guest is trying to take time breaking down the technical things to simpler terms for the general audience, you hopped in before he even gets the chance to finish explaining! Of course, in your perspective, this would've been the natural thing to do (we've all been in similar situations before) but it does make the topic a little hard to follow at times. 2. Recently I saw the channel uploading >2 podcast contents in a span of < 1 week. since the podcast is 1.5 - 2 hrs long it became challenging to catch up with all the content you have! Very unfortunate especially when the discussion is as fascinating as this one! Hence, I think that's why this talk gets lesser views than what the typical podcast episode could've garnered. But then again, this is just feedback from 1 audience that might not represent the general public. All in all, thanks for the very insightful talk as always!
When I was a young kid, we boys often played pretty damn rough, and we enjoyed it. Bruises, skinned knees and ripped clothes were "medals" that we wore with pride. After all the rough and tumble, I remember feeling elated and also a feeling of friendship and belonging.
Right. I remember what my dad said to us kids. Y’all go outside and play. Don’t be in here tearing up my house. So, obviously what is for the kids is for the kids and for the adults the adults. Not that complicated😂
Excellent talk! You, Frans de Waal as well as Jordan Peterson, are so important to the study and practice of psychology! It is refreshing to listen to you ! Being a psychologist myself, I hope that your works finally will turn the tide and end the abusive practices in child / especially male treatment. Thank you for the inspiration and insights!
I loved knowing JP wife kept her mother scarf. I did too and the smell of the clothes gave me a great comfort when my mother passed away... Eventually it went away but so did the pain and I'm so grateful for that possibility of maintaining that wonderful connection 💜
Jordan's ability to dissect complex topics for ordinary people like me who have no experience in these fields to understand is what I hope to be able to achieve one day, even if it's in the afterlife :D. Thanks, Dr. Peterson.
I have two sisters who had a girl child first and then a boy. From my perspective, it looks like the family socialized itself around the little girl and her lower energy nurturing personality. Both of these little boys, second siblings to a girl, are very socially awkward and several years behind in their development. There is extreme negative sibling rivalry. The boys are very consistently punished for boy like behavior, even when it might actually be appropriate. Would love to hear anyone's thoughts on this phenomenal. I also just had a little girl and would like to avoid doing disservice to any sons I may have simply because I am used to my little girl and her behavior.
Well there is genetics & upbringing. My mom, I think has a borderline personality. My mom loved to parade me as a cute & shy. A lot of women in my family would enjoy putting a makeup on me & do other stuff women like to do. It's just how women play. My father & men in my family are totally the opposite. Men will teach you survival stuff & climbing trees & boxing & playing chess & do electrical & plumbing..... So it's combination of your genetics & upbringing. If you are genetically more submissive, the parents should teach you to be more aggressive. I was a shy kid, and it was extremely stupid that my mom was trying to make me more shy. I am glad my dad balanced a bit. It's good to teach an agressive kid to be more shy & sensitive. But we cannot do that to all kids. But it's what the education/parents are trying to do. It's just stupid & dangerous to make a submissive kid more submissive
I grew up with two older sisters, on a small farm. In my opinion, my needs or wants were always considered last, if at all. The proverbial "man up, and do it yourself" attitude was unilaterally employed by both of my parents. To their defense, they never laid a hand on me unless I deserved what I got... As a child, I hated it. It felt like I didn't matter, or that I wasn't wanted. In addition to the tactics of my sisters to make sure any wrongdoing blame was placed on me, by them teaming up. This resulted in me being extremely reclusive, introverted, and sensitive, with a hyper-developed sense of justice. And made me able to read body language and tonality like breathing. As a man, though. I am grateful for the absolute independence and deep interpersonal wisdom that instilled in me. I do not need the approval of others, I get my value and meaning internally. I can't be pushed around. I will not tolerate malevolent, weak, or stupid people. You grow up quick, when you grow up tough. And in my experience? The best of people, have the worst of lives. Guys do thrive in rough environments. Raising a young boy myself, I've discovered a few things about how to foster a stellar relationship, as well as provide the subtle nurturing needed. Certainly don't claim to have it all figured out though! And watching Jordan sure has helped me in this too, Lol... Young men need clear boundaries, first and foremost. The opportunity to figure things out themselves, without being told the answers. (AKA, a healthy learning environment) A proper challenge, to keep them interested and engaged. (Not too hard, not too easy) A profound understanding of basic morality. Clearly explained punishments, for breaking the rules. (Explain why they are being disciplined, and how they can avoid it in the future.) And a positive reinforcement approach in regards to everyday life. We guys typically respond better to working towards a reward, rather than trying to avoid a punishment. You do need to employ abit of the "man up" rhetoric, but only in so much as to reduce the teasing they would receive if they are deemed weak by their peers. Men only like other men they can respect. And noone respects a crybaby or a pushover. Finally, make SURE you listen closely to what they say. And ask lots of questions about what they think, and feel about the goings on around them! Spending quality time with them, is often all that is truly desired. One on one. Feeling appreciated, and like they are heard, and understood.
I have 2 little girls and i just behave masculine. I always talk like an adult to them, not in the baby voices people tend to do. I am not soft on them i just tell them straight up if they do something wrong. I never ask them to do anything, i tell them. Unless they are supposed to have a choice in the matter. And i try to be serious around them most of the time, although here and there a bit of play is appropriate ofcourse. Dont know if i helped u with this but at least in this way i believe u can keep masculine behaviour normal even in a female dominated household.
I often wondered why I was more interested in things (hobbies, projects) than in people or why I have difficulty understanding how far is too far in mock fights. I didn't have many friends during childhood and now I spend more time with people older than me than with people my age. Thanks Jordan for this conversation.
The positive effect of this discussion on my mental well being is so great that I really believe today is going to be very different from yesterday. It's only a simple comment but Thankfully this sort of content is available. Thank you so much.
I was a mother who wanted my sons to grow without knowing anything about guns or war. We did love dinosaurs, though. One day at the park, my little one 'saw' a carnotaur behind the bushes and sounded the alarm. His older brother instinctively raised a stick, pointed it like a gun towards the 'threat' and shouted, "Go! Go go go go!" He didn't even know that guns went "bang". Hadn't seen Jurassic Park or any television at all. This was my wake up call, both to the immense knowledge potential stored somewhere inside boys and to its defensive utility. Boys are brilliant when we just let them be.
Dear Dr. Peterson, thank you very much for this fascinating interview. I would only wish that you let your guests speak with less interruptions on your part. Greetings from Germany
I enjoy Jordan's podcast because he has so many different topics that he gets into which is really interesting. He has extremely intelligent guests who have something to say worth listening to. I've actually bought quite a number of audiobooks of the people that he has interviewed. And they're all really good. One in particular audiobook that I got is the master and his emissary which is one of the interviews Jordan did that was outstanding, that is a really good audiobook by the way.
It's really interesting what is being said about rough and tumble play and the higher energy levels in boys. I have worked for some time in different schools as homework tutor. I observed that the boys in particular had a great need to let off steam physically in the short break between the end of the lesson and homework supervision. It seemed like they were draining all their energy in those short five minutes and didn't know what to do with it. I also observed that they were massively unfocused and physically restless during care. I knew that in general they hardly have any room to move and that the games mentioned are severely suppressed. So I decided to disregard the stupid rules of suppressing brawls and exercise and always let them work out in the playground for 15 minutes before the supervision, with lots of exercise and competition. In addition, I shortened the two hours of homework time to one hour and gave them the other hour for pure movement and play, in a free way (they mostly played football). They felt different, calmer, more concentrated, relieved. If the children were given more space for free play and exercise, if they interfered little and if they were given a good, low-sugar diet, many of today's problems (ADHD, increasing obesity in children) would be solved one hundred percent. I remember how in my day that was the exception rather than the rule. So there's definitely something wrong and it's homemade.
@@GUULLIVER The spelling mesmerized is the most common spelling. Mesmorized is also correct, so keep in mind that you may not actually be correcting, but rather only deflecting. There are two spellings. Either way, the original commenter had already admitted that autocorrect had changed his mesmerized to memorized, thus the discussion should have more or less over. I do thank you, however, for reminding me of something that I already know. I did not want to seem like a dictionary with multiple spellings. But it is for the best, as now others know that there are multiple spellings. Blessings to you!
48:02 as a little girl I did play with my boy cousins cars and trucks. The big car was the mommy and the big truck was the daddy. The smaller cars were their babies 🤣
This is such a condense conversation. About 20+ published papers have been distilled into a 1:45 conversation with exchange opinions across fields. Thank you for uploading this online.
Fantastic and exiting interview! Thank you for that, Jordan. I too got permanently banned from Twitter and have been looking for more intellectual and compelling conversations more than 150 words long while working on my art. This was great!
Dr JBP is an incredible interviewer and a brilliant, well-read, perceptive human being. A request to please allow the guest more uninterrupted time to respond.
The whole "followers," thing made me think of "Octavian," Augustus...AND his subordinate, Agrippa. The loyalty and trust..and how Agrippa was rewarded well..and Ceasar was given military victory by Agrippa. Or like Winston Churchill, and "Brenden Bracken." These male relationships...are interesting
Related to the unconscious olfaction: Japanese are still quite conscious of the “smell” of others, e.g., parents and partners; and it also gets mentioned in classical literature such as the poems of the Man’yoshu-the lingering smell of a loved one who has died (or gone off for the day): _nokoriga_ (残り香).
If you read any of Peter Wohlleben'books such as "the secret life of trees," or its beautiful children's edition "can you hear the trees talking " or " the secret network of nature " etc is quite clear that plants, and even our earth are also sentient beings.
Thank you both for a fascinating conversation. Makes me wonder what it's like at an ethologist meetup. I'd also love to see an ethologist, a behaviorist and an evolutionary psychologist in a room. But we'd better remove all weapons :P
We on Russia don’t understand the difference between Sex and Gender. Both Sex and Gender translate into the same word in Russian. So basically people here just don’t even understand what are you talking about.
For most English-speaking people, they are the same word. We mark our genders as male or female on documents. That is the level to which they mean the same thing. It is only very recently that higher education institutions changed the definition of gender to the social behaviors of masculine and feminine rather than XY and XX.
I saw Frans de Waal on Dutch talk show WNL op zondag last year and I still remember him say:"when people recognized they cannot accomplish gender equality they tried to erase the difference between two sexes in order to attain equality in gender. But it doesn't work that way. If you pursue that way women will suffer the most." That comment opened up my eyes... and evenually led me to understand the fallacy of transgendrism.
I tend to avoid conflict but recently I realised that its been weighing me down emotionally, so I learnt a skill- having difficult conversations and its been awesome. Thanks Mr JB Peterson.
Mr. Peterson, how is it that you have yet to feature David Goggins as a guest on your podcast? 🍿I'm waiting with popcorn and even money if necessary. There are a plethora of motivational youtube video compliations of the both of you discussing very similar "turn yourselfinto and monster" and "conquer yourself" ideas but never in the same room hashing that out to each other. This would be absolutely fascinating and probably deserving of a series of episodes in my opinion. You guys should get together and blow up the internet, seriously.
I remember a party, many years ago, where 2 life-long friends sat next to each other. You'd call those 2 single women "BFF" these days. Anyway, a really good looking guy comes to the party, and in an instant, the 2 women were locked in deadly serious competition, all disguised with fake smiles and cheap talk, but absolutely with daggers at the ready (so to speak). From what I learned, that was in essence the end of the friendship between those 2 women, as 1 of the 2 won the battle for attention. Women can be totally ruthless when they want to be.
Wonder if Frans de Waal was actually displeased half the conversation, which was clearly held before JBP announced his new alliance with TDW, was locked behind a paywall.
Dr. Peterson, you are as intelligent and interesting as anyone. You guest are also intelligent, interesting, and have something important to say. That’s why they come to your show. Let them say those interesting things without interrupting. As additional benefit, other intelligent and interesting people will want to come on your show. You, your guests, and your audience win if you orient yourself properly within the conversation.
Good = Creation ; Bad = Destruction . These are the two core ways of being which effects us, others and the reality it's self. Every movment , word, & thought is either Creative or Destructive. Altho seemingly there can be a mix, truth is ANY destruction poisons it all. As the smallest amouth of loving creation can heal it all.
Agreed with your comment about our two choices - creation and destruction. One might say creation is serving God and destruction is serving the ego. At every moment we are serving one or the other. At least that's what many spiritual traditions teach.
@@cccchip04 The intent behind the creation is what impacts reality. If the creation is of the physical , how it's used after the fact (often by some one else) is a seperate situation of intent. Breaking down something of the physical is not a destructive intent I refer to. But it can be. Someone walking through a sand castle cause they're too lazy to walk around it is the complete opposite of a 1 yr old running and jumping (destroying) the same sand castle. Lines of Logic based only the physical & our 5 senses is something humans will see past one day soon.
@@py2706 yes forsure , but im not sure if ego is always the case. What if one is a slave and acts out of fear ? It can still be a very destructive choice. Many may see the "Good & Evil" or God's way & not God's way or Creation & Destruction as religous, traditional, or just a good way to exist with others; But it has a very literal effect on the strength of our spititual energy (the energy created by the consciousness existing(vibrating) within reality(eather)). if we lose our physical inbodiment (die) , A lack of dielectric charge (spirit energy) well cause us to sink to a simular charge( "fall" ), And if you started far above matter it would be much like a bolt of lightning. But in our case we would fall into(inside) of matter. Fear and more so Guilt greatly dims our consciousness cause we pull away from the truth of the situation. And our greater consciousness (sub conscious) KNOWS whats right and wrong. This is why the message of Forgiveness was so impactive to save us (our set of memories) , cause we can get passed the guilt and not end up disassociating from our set of memories.
I recall a lecture about half a century ago by R.D. Alexander. He viewed play as a means of learning the boundaries of social cheating. What kid playing baseball does not recall the endless arguments bout fair vs. foul, ball vs. strike, safe vs. out.
Every single woman and man needs to watch this episode!! Especially if you are a parent to a young boy. Please hear this with an open mind. This was such an informative episode about human behavior. WONDERFUL guest and wonderful questions!
You're welcome to subscribe to my clips channel for additional content: czcams.com/users/JordanBPetersonClips
I wish you could see yourself from the outside. You are proof that one man can change the world.
The Holy Ghost pours out his Spirit and brings the increase in the name of Jesus. The latter rain proceeds the second coming and it is what waters the seed. Without the Spirit of God no one is saved. Believe in your idea of Jesus till the end of time, it does little good. You need to accept his ambassador and representative. So when the Holy Spirit shows himself and is rejected that is the unpardonable sin. To grieve the Spirit of God is to reject life.
The supreme witness of Jesus Christ (King David) is reporting for duty.
He was a man whose tongue held no lies,
For he was the direct descendant of our father in the heavenly skies.
Born to a body of fleshy sin,
Though what laid beneath was unlike the rest of his kin.
Jesus had the utmost grace,
Never being wavered by evils face.
He was wise beyond any years,
Performing miracles that would bring crowds to tears.
A beacon of light on top of a starless mountain,
Where words of wisdom poured out of him as if there ran a cosmic fountain.
His eyes pierced through you with a single glance,
Leaving even the most hardened individuals in quite the trance.
The Holy Spirit so ever majestically flowed inside this man,
Naturally people caught notice and became a fan.
Students began showing up from every mold,
When they heard his words their hearts were sold.
Wicked men put a price on Jesus's head,
He was wanted alive or dead.
Despite this he and his disciples continued their teachings,
Where on occasion they endured terrible beatings.
One of the twelve apostles turned to black,
No longer having Jesus's back.
Judas Iscariot had done Satan's bidding,
And it is in hell where he now is sitting.
Jesus died on the cross to pay for our shortcoming,
However don't be saddened for if you believe in him you will see him at your homecoming.
There he sits at the right hand of God's throne,
Being the voice of truth and love that we all have known.
Satan's tongue is coated in a layer of deceit,
And he tramples over promises with his feet.
He's a being who is bound by deceptions,
Whose very essence oozes with misconceptions.
He struggles to look you in your eyes,
For his gaze holds nothing but lies.
On occasion he will give you his hand,
But don't be fooled by his stand.
He seeks to corrupt your heart,
You would be wise to avoid him from the start.
Seeking quick pleasures and casting aside love,
He traverses this land with push and shove.
Now Lucifer was once not lost,
But pride blinded him at a cost.
Disobeying God he waged war,
Becoming detestable to the core.
Today he is the ruler of Earth,
Though for all his power he has no real worth.
However most of us have still been sold,
Giving into sin and becoming cold.
Nearly everyone is a puppet dancing on strings,
Marching to delusion for their unjust kings.
My people have given into lust,
Becoming robots full of rust.
However you my child are the exception,
So when you meet me don't forget to mention.
That you alone have been granted the key,
And before your glory they shall all bend a knee.
P.S.- Not too long ago I was very bitter and destructive. Literally I was covered in blood from head to toe and ripping off nails and things of that nature. In my mind Jesus was against me, he had a vendetta against me which I couldn't account for. Then slowly but surely I started having these revelations, and began delving into the word of God. It seemed like my agony was not in vain. The things which held me back eventually began to propel me forward. The darkness began fading away and an unspeakably bright light was surfacing. Jesus told me that he had to break me in order for me to rediscover who I really was. Sort of like a phoenix rising from the ashes. Today I am almost fully healed in every conceivable way, and things like being a virgin and being covered in scars I strangely enough take much pride in. I took up my cross and followed Christ and in doing so I discovered the greatest love of all.
@@jamesborder7636 lllll
@@Vashthestampedeo to the Gerr0000900000000ppp000000000l000ard of
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Hey, do you like Islam? Will you be a Muslim? Have you searched for Islam, right? Have you thought about it yet?
Something I love about Jordan's podcasts and lectures is that I frequently hear something in them that causes me to hit pause and go off on personal journeys of internal discovery and mulling things over in my head to make sense of them. I can't think of too many other people that elicit this response in me and it's a wonderful thing when it happens. Thanks for what you do Jordan.
What did you discover in the distant corners of your mind?
@@ranevc My Jungian Self! He was not who I was expecting to find. But I like him! He's far more genuine and "real" than my Jungian Ego.
I’ve done the same, I’ll hear a statistic (I’ll note at when time in the video) then I’ll go find the studies & research findings & make notes.
So if I quote or repeat something I can cite the source or sources and how many citations.
Not every video stance is the same in one interview he said he would view any data saying there is no differences in male and female brains. There are, but I agree with his findings on IQ & personality. Men and women are very similar there, but where the differences are can be found at the ends of the spectrums.
@@ranevc In my case, mostly cobwebs.
I have that so many times when i listen to his podcasts and lectures.
RIP Frans. Dankjewel voor je bijdrage
Just saw about his passing...wonder if JBP will mention him soon
This is one of those moments in which I feel beyond grateful for modern content sharing platforms. How else would we have such instant (and free) access to a brilliant dialogue between two geniuses like Peterson and de Wall. Absolutely amazing stuff.
Lmfao, de Wall? It's like biden in office when native english speakers try names. It's de Waal, de Waal is a river running through the netherlands. A for effort tho
@@wesleyvandenbroek9098 no one cares about your condescending comments
Cris agree with you 100%
@@David_____ you need a safe space?
And for 12 euro the commercials are taken away
We are so lucky that we live in a age where this kind of information is free on the internet. Thank you Jordan.
It sounds like you are thanking Jordan Peterson for the internet age... tee hee....
The Mudpit, It seems as if you “heard” Esaif’s comment aloud by the “sound” of things. This could go on forever or onr could just read into what you know he meant. The tee hee was nice though. Cue up next clever unclever comment.
He is an alien . Lets pretend looking good together now ; }
great point
Unlike many modern day 'manufactured crisis', this was indeed a true moral dilemma. If we do nothing Hitler could potentially take over the World. Yet, since we did something, Hitler was defeated. Yet a crack of doom was opened when we achieved the atomic bomb. I think this was an unjust war since many Japanese had perished in the blast. Yet there does not seem to have been any other way than a 'just war'.
I am reminded of Matthew 19:6 New King which states, "So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” I suppose the same could be said of the atom -- what God has joined together, let not man separate.
Just learned about the passing of dr. de Waal 3 days ago. RIP Frans, thank you for sharing your insights and for this interesting conversation!
Same 😣
Does anyone else find themselves being alone watching a discussion and verbalizing thoughts as we walk through ideas? I love that we can be invited in on a focused conversation and puzzle out things. It helps me a lot to put things together and I find I learn so much!
Thanks a lot for uploading the whole conversation! I appreciate it.
Thanks for explaining why I'm sure I saw this before even tho it was only uploaded 40 min ago 😂
Faxfax
Me too!
Same!
How I wish he could upload all in full length!!
Dr. Peterson, I really hope one day you’ll run across one of my comments so I can thank you for your incredible work and for your courageous diligence in defending your work. I’m a mother to a brilliant, energetic, 6 year old boy. I literally shudder when I imagine how I might have raised him without the insights you’ve given me into the biological, social, and emotional developmental needs of boys. The women are listening too…..especially moms with sons. Please keep teaching us. Maybe a dedicated parenting book….? 😉 I love everything you put out and I’m gonna pick up DeWaal’s new book too. Fascinating interview!!!
What a beautiful kind intimate compliment to Dr. Peterson. So inviting to those of us just getting acquainted with his work, encouragement to explore and trust that here in the defense of traditional "manliness" might be preserved some very useful guidance to avoid sleep walking through the woke status quo.
Sisters of boys are listening, too. Wishing you and your son well. ❤️
I love it when JBP has guests that are as intelligent as he is the conversation is just so much more interesting.
That's the objective. Maturity requires that we learn from one another, and... it also shows that we need to "rough house" intellectually, something that ignorants, npc's, commie zombies, antifa creeps, BLaM'rs, feminist baby killers, female sociopaths of The View and their ilk, Karens, government democrats, Rinos, Twitter, fb, youtube staff and their censorship advocates, and all other leftist imbeciles are incapable of doing or are triggered by it and must throw tantrums like chimpanzees.
He appears to love it too, by the way he leaf-blows his vocabulary out.
Dr. Peterson, this was extraordinarily cool. Thank you for these conversations, bringing such incredible people to where your audience may find them.
This is a super fascinating conversation. Every few minutes, I was going back to my childhood and how this talk was spot on about how I acted with my friends when I was a kid.
I took a class in psychology in collage and found it very fascinating. I'm now a retired Aerospace Machinist but have raised canines mostly gundogs for over 52 years as well as over 270 species of other animals, including many endangered species. I have found puppies must have physical play and learn a pecking order. We always see that a single pup in the litter does not learn to control their bite strength or how rough the play and turn out to be "terror nippers" and starving for hyper play. They play bite hard and bite your hands often drawing blood. The problem is if humans try to correct the problem, the pup will more likely than not bond properly or want to please their human pack leader. The mother can help sometimes, but the pup may just avoid playing with her. Nothing works better than placing a single pup in with other pup/s around the same size or slightly larger than they are. Fortunately, pups with littermates learn early on how to control their bite by the time they are weaned. but I have found that all single raised pups without rough play with other pups will always have problems with bite strength. The more littermates the better their bite control and the more well-adjusted and pack socialized they will be.
Wonderful conversation. My father had a Roman nose and did business with Arabs in Africa many years ago. He once told me that when dealing in business with them, they needed to speak "nose-to-nose" with him in order to sense his breathing to gauge his honesty. Close space was very important to them.
Woah. That's a new way to view the world
That's creepy.
That’s so interesting
See, this why we gotta just leave guy stuff to guys😏
Epic!! Very needed teaching in our society!! I was raised in the country w brothers and many children and my son was an only kid d/t me not being able to birth more. I noticed this lack of competition for him so i made sure he got lots of playground play, put him in every sport he wanted to try. Sent him to camp. Kept cousins close. He came out fairly balanced. He does have some only child issues but he is vastly different than other "only" children I've observed. Our school culture has got to stop pushing our boys down. Give them outlet.
1:00:00 I've recently learned that I am autistic so I'm seeing the world in a whole new way as I learn more about my blindspots. I would absolutely love to hear more from JP about female hierarchical systems and psychology!
Bonobos have a matriarchal rather than patriarchal structure to their society. Maybe worth your looking at them for that and other reasons.
Thank you very much for the great conversation...
Frans de Waal is one of my personal heroes...
Just read one or two de Waal books and you immediately understand how it is nearly impossible to understand ourselves as a species and to solve our major social problems without perceiving ourselves as part of the animal kingdom and without recognizing many evolutionarily continous traits and behaviours between other animals and us.
Jordan Peterson never fails to make me question my own thinking about so many subjects. Sometimes these conversations take me into an internal conversation with myself that lasts for several days. While this conversation was brilliant it was also easy to absorb and I feel lucky to be able to access it in my living room , car , or out and about. Technology isn’t all bad!
Thank you for bringing up Mr. De Wall
Marvelous discussion! I vote for a sequel. Or, a mini series? There is much to discuss. We are losing our "human culture" to the degree that we are losing our gender roles and being socialized to the point of isolation and forced into virtual worlds. This kind of study helps to clear the fog and confusion of what is natural and necessary and what is nonsense re-programming .
Thank you very much indeed for making this whole conversation public now. I was distressed with the abrupt end of the amputated version, but now I will watch the whole thing again from the beginning. This conversation is so thought-provoking, and there cannot be too much of that.
Super neat.
Thanks JP. I've taken my son to a few of your talks.
Very cool to have you introduce us to someone else who is importantly well-considered.
You've made a materially-positive difference.
You know JP is thrilled, when his introduction is over six minutes 😁
😂 you know you’re in for a great one when he does
Thanks for uploading the whole conversation and make it accessible for everyone like always
That's the plan man. It was just miscommunication before. Part of working out a new working relationship.
@@JordanBPeterson Loads of respect and appreciation from Belgium💯
What an incredible discussion. Lots of ground was covered. I'd love to see this conversation continue for another hour or more.
I agree. They should do it again.
1:37:50 The importance of sense of smell in connectivity to others. During Covid I lost my mother and was unable to be at her bedside during lockdown. I ventured into all the perfumes and fragrances that women in my childhood wore. I purchased the most significant one and to this day find comfort with the olfactive experience. This has helped me in my grief journey to this day.
How lucky we are to live in an era where interaction on this level takes place with such frequency and flexibility and even more so that we have access to it. I am so incredibly fortunate that in my old age I can keep on learning and extend my knowledge and my range of interest despite limited means.
Thank you, gentlemen both
Jordan (if you should see this), I was listening to this conversation for the 2nd or 3rd time and only now did I pick up on the bit about Tiffany Fields(?).
I was born 8 weeks premature in 1985 with many problems (placental abruption, hernias, respiratory distress, etc) and I would spend the first 18mo of my life in and out of oxygen tents at the hospital. My mother swears up and down that I got better when a nurse there stayed overnight after her shift "burping" me to assist my breathing, during the Christmas holiday. She always regarded it as a miracle. I never knew how much credit to give to that story.
I know it's anecdotal, but here I am.
This is such a breath of fresh air. This difference in behavior, culture, and role models across the species shows the degree to which political ideologies are full of crap.
Such a very very very important video! Every teacher should be required to watch and learn this evidence supported information about boys!
Unbelievably intellectual discussion, people should understand these things early in life.
I read a lot about different subjects, especially science-related topics, and it always seems like I just go from one topic to the next without ever using the subjects in any conversation. Your podcast makes me remember things I've read previously and rehash certain topics that were in the deepest recesses of my mind. It also helps that many of your guests are authors I deeply admire and like. Thank you for that. You also seem like a very genuine and authentic person, please keep doing these podcasts.
A 50% decline in bullying is a marvelous result! This book ought to be taught at Every facility training teachers, principles, pedagogues and social workers then. Bought my copy immediately. Thanks for the suggestion!
By the way, the author's name is Dan Olweus and the book I could just order is titled "Bullying at School: What We Know and What We Can Do".
Jordan, I worried about my young son during his father’s breakdown and eventual death. The woman that counselled us suggested I give him my worn shirt with my scent on it to snuggle at night. He slept peacefully and seemed overall happier. I didn’t expect that magic.
I'm an introverted only child. Yep, you guessed it, my skills at conflict resolution are almost non-existent.
I wasn't big on having friends over as a small child and only occasionally spent meaningful time with my cousins. As even a small child, i always preferred the friendship of boys, I didn't have conflict with them like I did with girlfriends.
It was while contemplating whether to have a single child with my husband that I really began to analyse my own situation.
I had grown up, occasionally berating my parents for making me an only child... Only to realise while still quite young, that I only ever actually desired an older brother (LoL), I had not desire for a younger sibling, nor a sister of any age. I figured that what I wanted was an additional 'protector figure' and a peer to look up to. Even as an adult I regularly form deep friendships with men and refer to them as 'my brother'. I actually married one of them!! There must be a pathology in there🤣 I should also mention that my father died shortly after I turned 17, this cannot be a coincidence.
Anyway, I had already become aware of my weakness in conflict, including resolution and taking those times of conflict personally while struggling to let them go. When discussing these things with my Mum (relating to her relationship with her 3 brothers) and my husband and his relationship with his brother, it was not difficult to draw the connection to being an only child. When we did eventually have a single child ourselves, I based the decision to not have more on his personality and willingness to be social. He, like me despite being introverted, was confident in talking to adults, even those he didn't really know (even as a toddler!) He was confident and chatty, plus did not become anxious when left alone, so I simply (probably far too simply) resolved to ensure he had maximum opportunities to socialise with peers and attended play groups at the first opportunity and always insisted on team sports rather than individual sports.
He is now 18, he is clearly introverted, but open and friendly, so I think I did ok.
who asked
@@jodawgsup rude.
@@mariawalker8403 yeah, but who asked tho
I think at a young age we are still trying to understand ourselves and our world
@@jodawgsup Why asks writers to write? Who asks storytellers to tell a story? No one knows. What matters is the story.
This guy deciding to talk and my decision to listenhas brought about such a good outcome in my life and family. Anyone else?
I’m consistently reminded why homeschooling my kids was the wisest decision we ever made as parents.
I'd love to do that when I have kids.
Was this humor or did you not hear that after 4 children are socialized by their peers....so removing your child from their peers to only be with you all day long would be a horrific thing todo to your child in their development that would effect them for their entire life.
Homeschooling scares me. I don’t want trained kids no matter how you slice it. Many children will fight for their lives anyway. I would never have endured being homeschooled. My mom was my 5th grade teacher though. I remember her helping me with homework zero times in my entire life. I didn’t need any, but I might have respected her if I thought she was smart and cared about me. Her generation only cared about a girls reputation 😂
I’m a mom now. It would be so depressing to me if I could just be like, ‘oh, I’m homeschooling now’ and my kids went along with it. Some people are incapable of being broken and completely domesticated. They won’t go against every grain of their nature, they will not be robbed of their freedom, beliefs, and autonomy by anyone. Yes, I believe you mean well, but if you RAISE your kids and teach them common sense, critical thinking, current events, philosophy, religion, some history etc. They can go to school almost anywhere. You raise them, but not for a livestock show. Let the government have a shot at them. You’re the one who teaches them what’s important
You probably have more homogeneous genetics and culture in your family. Oh, I would’ve given anything to have grown up in a small town and not on the border. I might be capable of showing off about having good little calves
@@dal8963 what if their peers are dumb, have herd mentality, don't have morals, are borderline sociopathic, mean or just plain assholes? I'm asking a legit question..
If ideas spread why wouldn't a bad idea spread as well? Kids need to socialize and everyone knows this, no one would say otherwise because it's pretty obvious at this point. However the way you are phrasing it has a creepy undertone. Why? Because you are implying something very dark by omission. And it's this.. Peers and friends are only found in schools because there is no community and people don't go to parks with their kids and they only live in cities stacked like sardines in a can and the sardines only interact with other sardines when they go to school.
@@dal8963 you are also forgetting or assuming idk, that every child that lives in the same street goes to the same school. And if you use a really small town where everyone knows each other as an example then what makes them peers to each other would be the fact that they live in a town with 1 or 2 schools max. Which makes the perspective of peers only coming from schools meaningless.
In my opinion peers have been relegated to the internet which is sad but still I don't believe that separating someone from their peers by homeschooling perspective. Have a nice one 👍
I am truly “blown away” with this superb conversation. I have long followed Dr Peterson but I have now added Dr Frans de Waal. Both are excellent and together superb.
I LOVE intelligent conversations. So , I'm busying myself around the house with a grin on my face listening to this dialog. My wife wanted to know what 'song' I was listening to in my headphones.
That is significant.
Glad you got to interview him Jordan. Kind regards. Chris from the Netherlands
Frans de Waal 29-10-1948 - 14-3-2024
Never have i adjustied my position on my chair while watching something to give it my full attention as i do when watching Professor Dr. Peterson and his podcasts. This man's intellect and way of observation automatically forces you to go like "This is more important than whatever i am thinking of right now" . My utmost thanks for you Dr. Peterson for keeping it REAL.
Thank you! I love this as a play therapist! I would love you to interview a person who studies elephants. I was in Africa once, and had the opportunity to observe elephants, and I found it beautiful in the family system, social construct, m/f/kiddos in the world of elephants. One might find the interview enlightening
Thank you, Dr. Peterson. You courageously reignite the desire to pursue truth and true knowledge. G'd bless you.
This was such an eye-opening discussion. I definitely have masculine traits but aggression was never one of them. It's insanely difficult for me to tap into that part of myself for more than a minute or two, especially in a healthy way. Looking back, I had very little opportunity for rough play as a kid.
Also, my kids' school is the same when it comes to letting the kids play. No more snowballs, no more dodgeball. My kids just told me this week that if they want to play baseball they have to use a tee with a really soft ball. And no bat. You smack the ball with your hand. Are you kidding me!?
How ridiculous - see they do not want healthy minds in children
This is horrid. This is part of the huge problem we have in so many people being fearful, and narcissistic.
Adults are terrified of putting healthy limits on children, while at the same time becoming "helicopter" parents. They all are afraid of plain old life!
I wonder if this was part of why so many people went along with the shutdowns in 2020.
A healthy society does not tell all the youthful, healthy people to live like shutins.
The vulnerable people do that. Not healthy ones.
Thank you, JP for bringing in one of my mostly important intellectual figure. It was a pleasure to watch you both talk about SENTIENCE. I'm currently doing my PhD on this topic. It's fascinating when biology meets philosophy. You guys gave me important insights on your talk. Thank you 💜. Hugs from Brazil 🇧🇷.
Hi Dr. Peterson, I have been watching your content for about a year now and this episode is definitely one of my favorites! :) I think I have some feedback that hopefully, you can consider to improve the viewer experience and grow the channel:
1. According to my observation I think you have a tendency to cut other people when they're talking when the discussion gets really interesting (both for you and the viewers), especially when the other person is someone that you are a big fan of. I'm sure you saw all the comments in the Richard Dawkins episode talking about this too. I reckon you did better here compared to the Dawkins episode, but still, there were times when I wish Frans de Waal had more time to speak! I also think this happens because sometimes the discussion gets very technical that it is hard to follow for the general public, and when the guest is trying to take time breaking down the technical things to simpler terms for the general audience, you hopped in before he even gets the chance to finish explaining! Of course, in your perspective, this would've been the natural thing to do (we've all been in similar situations before) but it does make the topic a little hard to follow at times.
2. Recently I saw the channel uploading >2 podcast contents in a span of < 1 week. since the podcast is 1.5 - 2 hrs long it became challenging to catch up with all the content you have! Very unfortunate especially when the discussion is as fascinating as this one! Hence, I think that's why this talk gets lesser views than what the typical podcast episode could've garnered.
But then again, this is just feedback from 1 audience that might not represent the general public. All in all, thanks for the very insightful talk as always!
Rest in peace, Dr. De Waal 🙏 Thanks for all your great enthousiasm and knowledge.
When I was a young kid, we boys often played pretty damn rough, and we enjoyed it. Bruises, skinned knees and ripped clothes were "medals" that we wore with pride. After all the rough and tumble, I remember feeling elated and also a feeling of friendship and belonging.
I remember this too.
Right. I remember what my dad said to us kids. Y’all go outside and play. Don’t be in here tearing up my house. So, obviously what is for the kids is for the kids and for the adults the adults. Not that complicated😂
Excellent talk! You, Frans de Waal as well as Jordan Peterson, are so important to the study and practice of psychology! It is refreshing to listen to you ! Being a psychologist myself, I hope that your works finally will turn the tide and end the abusive practices in child / especially male treatment. Thank you for the inspiration and insights!
This is the conversation we've been needing!
I loved knowing JP wife kept her mother scarf. I did too and the smell of the clothes gave me a great comfort when my mother passed away... Eventually it went away but so did the pain and I'm so grateful for that possibility of maintaining that wonderful connection 💜
Jordan's ability to dissect complex topics for ordinary people like me who have no experience in these fields to understand is what I hope to be able to achieve one day, even if it's in the afterlife :D. Thanks, Dr. Peterson.
I have two sisters who had a girl child first and then a boy. From my perspective, it looks like the family socialized itself around the little girl and her lower energy nurturing personality. Both of these little boys, second siblings to a girl, are very socially awkward and several years behind in their development. There is extreme negative sibling rivalry. The boys are very consistently punished for boy like behavior, even when it might actually be appropriate. Would love to hear anyone's thoughts on this phenomenal. I also just had a little girl and would like to avoid doing disservice to any sons I may have simply because I am used to my little girl and her behavior.
Well there is genetics & upbringing.
My mom, I think has a borderline personality.
My mom loved to parade me as a cute & shy.
A lot of women in my family would enjoy putting a makeup on me & do other stuff women like to do.
It's just how women play.
My father & men in my family are totally the opposite.
Men will teach you survival stuff & climbing trees & boxing & playing chess & do electrical & plumbing.....
So it's combination of your genetics & upbringing.
If you are genetically more submissive, the parents should teach you to be more aggressive.
I was a shy kid, and it was extremely stupid that my mom was trying to make me more shy.
I am glad my dad balanced a bit.
It's good to teach an agressive kid to be more shy & sensitive.
But we cannot do that to all kids.
But it's what the education/parents are trying to do.
It's just stupid & dangerous to make a submissive kid more submissive
I grew up with two older sisters, on a small farm. In my opinion, my needs or wants were always considered last, if at all. The proverbial "man up, and do it yourself" attitude was unilaterally employed by both of my parents. To their defense, they never laid a hand on me unless I deserved what I got... As a child, I hated it. It felt like I didn't matter, or that I wasn't wanted. In addition to the tactics of my sisters to make sure any wrongdoing blame was placed on me, by them teaming up.
This resulted in me being extremely reclusive, introverted, and sensitive, with a hyper-developed sense of justice. And made me able to read body language and tonality like breathing.
As a man, though. I am grateful for the absolute independence and deep interpersonal wisdom that instilled in me. I do not need the approval of others, I get my value and meaning internally. I can't be pushed around. I will not tolerate malevolent, weak, or stupid people. You grow up quick, when you grow up tough. And in my experience? The best of people, have the worst of lives. Guys do thrive in rough environments.
Raising a young boy myself, I've discovered a few things about how to foster a stellar relationship, as well as provide the subtle nurturing needed. Certainly don't claim to have it all figured out though! And watching Jordan sure has helped me in this too, Lol...
Young men need clear boundaries, first and foremost. The opportunity to figure things out themselves, without being told the answers. (AKA, a healthy learning environment) A proper challenge, to keep them interested and engaged. (Not too hard, not too easy) A profound understanding of basic morality. Clearly explained punishments, for breaking the rules. (Explain why they are being disciplined, and how they can avoid it in the future.) And a positive reinforcement approach in regards to everyday life. We guys typically respond better to working towards a reward, rather than trying to avoid a punishment.
You do need to employ abit of the "man up" rhetoric, but only in so much as to reduce the teasing they would receive if they are deemed weak by their peers. Men only like other men they can respect. And noone respects a crybaby or a pushover.
Finally, make SURE you listen closely to what they say. And ask lots of questions about what they think, and feel about the goings on around them! Spending quality time with them, is often all that is truly desired. One on one. Feeling appreciated, and like they are heard, and understood.
I love it when it’s time to get down to brass tacts!
I have 2 little girls and i just behave masculine. I always talk like an adult to them, not in the baby voices people tend to do. I am not soft on them i just tell them straight up if they do something wrong. I never ask them to do anything, i tell them. Unless they are supposed to have a choice in the matter. And i try to be serious around them most of the time, although here and there a bit of play is appropriate ofcourse. Dont know if i helped u with this but at least in this way i believe u can keep masculine behaviour normal even in a female dominated household.
Advocate for them
I often wondered why I was more interested in things (hobbies, projects) than in people or why I have difficulty understanding how far is too far in mock fights. I didn't have many friends during childhood and now I spend more time with people older than me than with people my age. Thanks Jordan for this conversation.
Take a drink every time Jordan interrupts Frans.
Make sure you don't have to work the next day though because you'll be hungover as hell.
Really bloody interesting. I'm going to watch it in a couple of segments to ensure that I take it all in. Thank you both.
The positive effect of this discussion on my mental well being is so great that I really believe today is going to be very different from yesterday.
It's only a simple comment but Thankfully this sort of content is available.
Thank you so much.
As a Dutch person it’s always fun to hear our English!
The best!
I was a mother who wanted my sons to grow without knowing anything about guns or war. We did love dinosaurs, though. One day at the park, my little one 'saw' a carnotaur behind the bushes and sounded the alarm. His older brother instinctively raised a stick, pointed it like a gun towards the 'threat' and shouted, "Go! Go go go go!"
He didn't even know that guns went "bang". Hadn't seen Jurassic Park or any television at all. This was my wake up call, both to the immense knowledge potential stored somewhere inside boys and to its defensive utility. Boys are brilliant when we just let them be.
Thanks for the high quality free content. I appreciate it
Dear Dr. Peterson, thank you very much for this fascinating interview. I would only wish that you let your guests speak with less interruptions on your part. Greetings from Germany
Thank you so much for sharing this with us all. Waiting for this one chat for a couple years . God bless you both.
I enjoy Jordan's podcast because he has so many different topics that he gets into which is really interesting. He has extremely intelligent guests who have something to say worth listening to. I've actually bought quite a number of audiobooks of the people that he has interviewed. And they're all really good. One in particular audiobook that I got is the master and his emissary which is one of the interviews Jordan did that was outstanding, that is a really good audiobook by the way.
It's really interesting what is being said about rough and tumble play and the higher energy levels in boys. I have worked for some time in different schools as homework tutor. I observed that the boys in particular had a great need to let off steam physically in the short break between the end of the lesson and homework supervision. It seemed like they were draining all their energy in those short five minutes and didn't know what to do with it. I also observed that they were massively unfocused and physically restless during care. I knew that in general they hardly have any room to move and that the games mentioned are severely suppressed. So I decided to disregard the stupid rules of suppressing brawls and exercise and always let them work out in the playground for 15 minutes before the supervision, with lots of exercise and competition. In addition, I shortened the two hours of homework time to one hour and gave them the other hour for pure movement and play, in a free way (they mostly played football). They felt different, calmer, more concentrated, relieved. If the children were given more space for free play and exercise, if they interfered little and if they were given a good, low-sugar diet, many of today's problems (ADHD, increasing obesity in children) would be solved one hundred percent. I remember how in my day that was the exception rather than the rule. So there's definitely something wrong and it's homemade.
Kept me memorized... for the entire length. The world needs more of this
*mesmorized
@@WatchingMyLifeFlashB freakin' autocorrect I was busy watching instead of correcting others 😑👍
@@WatchingMyLifeFlashB mesm*e*rized
@@GUULLIVER The spelling mesmerized is the most common spelling. Mesmorized is also correct, so keep in mind that you may not actually be correcting, but rather only deflecting.
There are two spellings. Either way, the original commenter had already admitted that autocorrect had changed his mesmerized to memorized, thus the discussion should have more or less over.
I do thank you, however, for reminding me of something that I already know. I did not want to seem like a dictionary with multiple spellings. But it is for the best, as now others know that there are multiple spellings.
Blessings to you!
He passed away today from metastatic stomach cancer.
RIP Dr. Frans De Waal
48:02 as a little girl I did play with my boy cousins cars and trucks. The big car was the mommy and the big truck was the daddy. The smaller cars were their babies 🤣
This is an Amazing conversation more people need to not only listen to but hear
This is such a condense conversation. About 20+ published papers have been distilled into a 1:45 conversation with exchange opinions across fields. Thank you for uploading this online.
Fantastic and exiting interview! Thank you for that, Jordan. I too got permanently banned from Twitter and have been looking for more intellectual and compelling conversations more than 150 words long while working on my art. This was great!
Dr JBP is an incredible interviewer and a brilliant, well-read, perceptive human being. A request to please allow the guest more uninterrupted time to respond.
I would love to see Dr. Peterson and De Waal continue this conversation while engaging in some rough and tumble play with young chimpanzees.
The whole "followers," thing made me think of "Octavian," Augustus...AND his subordinate, Agrippa. The loyalty and trust..and how Agrippa was rewarded well..and Ceasar was given military victory by Agrippa.
Or like Winston Churchill, and "Brenden Bracken." These male relationships...are interesting
Related to the unconscious olfaction: Japanese are still quite conscious of the “smell” of others, e.g., parents and partners; and it also gets mentioned in classical literature such as the poems of the Man’yoshu-the lingering smell of a loved one who has died (or gone off for the day): _nokoriga_ (残り香).
The Japanese are also conscious of others fashion. Only females do the smelling and fashion checking.
Great Convo. A human studying humans and a human studying primates and how similar they are. Mind blowing
You should have whoever does the uploads for these, attach the links for the referenced studies. This would be wonderfully helpful. So do it please :)
If you read any of Peter Wohlleben'books such as "the secret life of trees," or its beautiful children's edition "can you hear the trees talking " or " the secret network of nature " etc is quite clear that plants, and even our earth are also sentient beings.
Hey Jordan, why do you no longer state in the description the date when you recorded the interview? I used to like having that knowledge.
Thank you both for a fascinating conversation. Makes me wonder what it's like at an ethologist meetup.
I'd also love to see an ethologist, a behaviorist and an evolutionary psychologist in a room. But we'd better remove all weapons :P
We on Russia don’t understand the difference between Sex and Gender.
Both Sex and Gender translate into the same word in Russian.
So basically people here just don’t even understand what are you talking about.
For most English-speaking people, they are the same word. We mark our genders as male or female on documents. That is the level to which they mean the same thing.
It is only very recently that higher education institutions changed the definition of gender to the social behaviors of masculine and feminine rather than XY and XX.
“We don’t do that here.”-Black Panther voice😆
I saw Frans de Waal on Dutch talk show WNL op zondag last year and I still remember him say:"when people recognized they cannot accomplish gender equality they tried to erase the difference between two sexes in order to attain equality in gender. But it doesn't work that way. If you pursue that way women will suffer the most."
That comment opened up my eyes... and evenually led me to understand the fallacy of transgendrism.
Thank you so much for uploading the whole thing, I might actually subscribe to TDW+ now ironically out of sheer gratitude!
I tend to avoid conflict but recently I realised that its been weighing me down emotionally, so I learnt a skill- having difficult conversations and its been awesome.
Thanks Mr JB Peterson.
Mr. Peterson, how is it that you have yet to feature David Goggins as a guest on your podcast? 🍿I'm waiting with popcorn and even money if necessary.
There are a plethora of motivational youtube video compliations of the both of you discussing very similar "turn yourselfinto and monster" and "conquer yourself" ideas but never in the same room hashing that out to each other.
This would be absolutely fascinating and probably deserving of a series of episodes in my opinion. You guys should get together and blow up the internet, seriously.
It is a privilege to listen to two people synergistically interacting.
1:21:10 "Bat intelligence is not on our radar."
I'm still laughing out loud.
Absolutely a great talk. Got so much out of it. Worth a rewatch to see if I missed anything. Wow. Thank you for up loading this. ♥
I remember a party, many years ago, where 2 life-long friends sat next to each other. You'd call those 2 single women "BFF" these days. Anyway, a really good looking guy comes to the party, and in an instant, the 2 women were locked in deadly serious competition, all disguised with fake smiles and cheap talk, but absolutely with daggers at the ready (so to speak). From what I learned, that was in essence the end of the friendship between those 2 women, as 1 of the 2 won the battle for attention. Women can be totally ruthless when they want to be.
Not in my house🤣
But the other girl likely f*cked him, too. 😆 🤣
Im so Happy you reposted this, thank you Dr Peterson
Wonder if Frans de Waal was actually displeased half the conversation, which was clearly held before JBP announced his new alliance with TDW, was locked behind a paywall.
Dr. Peterson, you are as intelligent and interesting as anyone. You guest are also intelligent, interesting, and have something important to say. That’s why they come to your show. Let them say those interesting things without interrupting. As additional benefit, other intelligent and interesting people will want to come on your show. You, your guests, and your audience win if you orient yourself properly within the conversation.
Wish jordan talked about the Great Reset more
True...but he could be cancelled and basically removed from every online platform
@@nickbrennan3389 It’s a Brave New 1984
I appreciate, respect and value your work, sharing and public presentations. Thank you both.
Good = Creation ; Bad = Destruction . These are the two core ways of being which effects us, others and the reality it's self. Every movment , word, & thought is either Creative or Destructive. Altho seemingly there can be a mix, truth is ANY destruction poisons it all. As the smallest amouth of loving creation can heal it all.
Not every creation does good and some destruction sets others free
But I do like your comment's POV though
And wise choices 🤔
Agreed with your comment about our two choices - creation and destruction. One might say creation is serving God and destruction is serving the ego. At every moment we are serving one or the other. At least that's what many spiritual traditions teach.
@@cccchip04 The intent behind the creation is what impacts reality. If the creation is of the physical , how it's used after the fact (often by some one else) is a seperate situation of intent. Breaking down something of the physical is not a destructive intent I refer to. But it can be. Someone walking through a sand castle cause they're too lazy to walk around it is the complete opposite of a 1 yr old running and jumping (destroying) the same sand castle. Lines of Logic based only the physical & our 5 senses is something humans will see past one day soon.
@@py2706 yes forsure , but im not sure if ego is always the case. What if one is a slave and acts out of fear ? It can still be a very destructive choice. Many may see the "Good & Evil" or God's way & not God's way or Creation & Destruction as religous, traditional, or just a good way to exist with others; But it has a very literal effect on the strength of our spititual energy (the energy created by the consciousness existing(vibrating) within reality(eather)). if we lose our physical inbodiment (die) , A lack of dielectric charge (spirit energy) well cause us to sink to a simular charge( "fall" ), And if you started far above matter it would be much like a bolt of lightning. But in our case we would fall into(inside) of matter. Fear and more so Guilt greatly dims our consciousness cause we pull away from the truth of the situation. And our greater consciousness (sub conscious) KNOWS whats right and wrong. This is why the message of Forgiveness was so impactive to save us (our set of memories) , cause we can get passed the guilt and not end up disassociating from our set of memories.
I recall a lecture about half a century ago by R.D. Alexander. He viewed play as a means of learning the boundaries of social cheating. What kid playing baseball does not recall the endless arguments bout fair vs. foul, ball vs. strike, safe vs. out.
Great conversation! Very interesting and informative 👍
rest in peace Dr. Frans de Waal 🕯️thank you for everything u did to the world!
This is SUCH a good episode.
I took notes. Never done that before with a podcast.
what a great episode, enjoyed every second of it
Every single woman and man needs to watch this episode!! Especially if you are a parent to a young boy. Please hear this with an open mind.
This was such an informative episode about human behavior. WONDERFUL guest and wonderful questions!