Should Women be Punished For Having an Abortion?
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
- Stephanie and I discuss the morality of imprisoning women who have committed abortion, and why violence against Abortion Doctors is more complicated than it may seem. Isn't it cruel to even suggest punishing a woman, after the horrible experience of having an abortion? If abortion truly is murder isn't it unjust to let the guilty go unpunished?
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What are your thoughts? Should those who procure an abortion be punished by the law?
I would say yes, but only as accessory to murder, not for murder itself (unless it's self inflicted). It also would require that the woman knew what she was doing, of sound kind, etc. Basically what Miss Gray said. 🙂
#savethebabies
This doesn't feel Christian at all.
This made me quite sad.
The number of abortions in the US is declining year after year thanks to education and access to birth control. Why jump to these psuedo intellectual arguments when we know access to health care and education has proven the most effective? We know that unwanted pregnancies happen most often among the poor and we know the poor have the least access to health care. This.video.made.me.sad.
Jail time? Let me quote Voltaire for you, "Miserable human beings, whether in green robes or turbans, whether in black gowns or in surplices, or in mantles and bands, never seek to employ authority where nothing is concerned but reason, or consent to be reviled in all ages as the most impertinent of men, as well as to endure public hatred as the most unjust."
Why even invoke topics of wanton violence? Why even offer perspectives which only close people's _hearts_? I don't believe you are being honest about the intentions of these videos.
You speak nothing of _love_. Only _judgement_ and _wrath_.
What.did.I.miss?
I would say abortionist should definitely face jail time and a fine. I'm hesitant to say women who submit to them should be as well PRIMARILY because so many women who get them are lies to and told that abortion will fix everything and that the baby isn't a human. If a woman shows that she 100% consented and wanted this, then yes, but overall, I feel there needs to be more analysis of the facts.
@@marinanguish9928 I hear you but that would be unfair. Only when a law is passed, then people who commit the act after the law is passed should be jailed, obviously not people who have done it in the past.
@@marinanguish9928 okay but you were advocating for a grace period where people who break the law would not be punished for doing so, right?
I think the abortion doctors should be held responsible, not the women. Otherwise every woman who has a miscarriage would be suspect, and they might stop seeking medical care, which is a very bad thing. This happens often in countries where abortion is illegal.
Besides, many of the mothers are desperate, especially those who would risk an illegal operation. Just as it’s dumb to throw debtors in jail where they can’t pay off their debts, it makes no sense to take a vulnerable population that clearly has problems and make their situation even worse by throwing them in prison, depriving their living children of a mother. It also compromises their ability to get a job, which again crippled their ability to care for their children, present and future.
But I think the prison system is banannas anyway and that we need much better solutions to criminal action than jail time, so perhaps my opinion misses the point.
Excellent points
If abortion was illegal;
1. Was the person of sound mind
2. Was the person bullied or pressured into abortion
3. Does the mother understand that the pre-born child is her offspring
Abortion is murder and the ending of a human life yes it’s immoral. The goal is to communicate with people so that abortion will more importantly be unthinkable.
so you'd support not giving jail time to a woman who hired a hitman to kill her 5 year old??
Seems illogical to have this distinction if you actually believe abortion is murder.
So what if every woman is a suspect, if we don’t have good evidence it was a miscarriage, and she claims that it is then yes she would be a suspect, that’s not a reason to not criminalize something.
That's literally not true
Should fathers of aborted fetuses be punished too or is the whole weight of the sin/illegal act totally on the mother?
vwmanagement_ _ I kept waiting for them to mention the men.
Would depend on the situation. If the father urged or forced the mother to get an abortion, presumably he could be more responsible
I believe most women who get abortions should be punished, and fathers if they are involved in the abortion yes should be punished.
I think that a man who gets a woman pregnant should face penalties if she has an abortion, even if it was not rape.
If the father in question is pushing for it or actively working to facilitate it, then yes; it's called being an accomplice to murder or being a co-conspirator to commit murder.
Although I'm pro-life, I think most women who have abortions are not morally culpable, or their moral culpability is rather low, because they have been denied the support they need to keep their child, and they live in a society where they are constantly told that there is nothing wrong with abortion. Rather I think moral culpability falls on the rest of society. If anyone should be imprisoned, it should be the abortionist. That's pretty much it.
Agreed. The problem is that people don’t believe the fetus inside is human. If they don’t even think the fetus is a human, why would you even expect people to treat the child as such?
What a bullshit answer.
So how do you feel now?
@@null627 Abortion happens naturally all the time.
@@null627 So any claims that it is un natural are unfounded.
Beside the real issue is whether you want women have abortions to be charged with murder?
If you believe abortion is murder, then it makes no sense to not give heavy jail time to women who terminate their pregnancy.
If you believe abortion is murder, you would also support the death penalty for women who seek termination, particularly if they've had more than one abortion.
If you believe abortion is murder, it is justified to use lethal force against abortion doctors.
Once abortion becomes unlawful, doctors wouldn't participate because then they'd risk going to jail as well. So there wouldn't be as much abortion, I think.
Oh, Almighty God, have mercy on us!
The response that Fradd needs from her is: Vigilante justice is not a method of achieving real lasting justice. The state is the proper executor of those who violate crimes against the citizenry. In an instance of individual duty and responsibility to defend those within our care, and with no foreseeable means to prevent an irreversible evil, one may use force, violence, and possibly kill a perpetrator. The similarity between the issue of the abortionist and the matter of self-defense (or familial defense) is that there needs to be a reasonable chance of success in both to be justified in doing so. With the self-defense, there is a greater sense of certainty of the actual event taking place and successfully avoiding the evil. With the vigilantism of abortion, the abortionist may be prevented from committing this abortion, but there may be far more - seeing as how this violation of the positive law will not prevent future abortions (on said victim or others) from this doctor or others. Thus, it would be morally wrong to go about dealing out vigilante justice to abortionists, but would not be wrong to defend your own child from a perpetrator.
This all could be a pile of dung. Sorry for the rant.
Alright, what if is your child now getting aborted.. is it moral now to do everything in your power now?
Not just the women but all those who contribute to this crime even those who made it legal.
In my country (Argentina) we're still resisting the international pressure to legalise abortion. Abortion is illegal, yet there's no practitioner or woman in jail for abortion. I think the woman is most of the time a victim of a perverse system, and she shouldn't be punished unless the contrary is proved. I think the practitioner should be always punished and the instigators too. A permissive law is part of the pressure women suffer. Nobody should be killed. Not even the murderer
opinions of these two individuals are just insanity...
Should be the norm however. Within a week, once roe gets overturned, we can consider imprisoning women who attempt to kill their unborn children. It’s only consistent.
@@mosesking2923 its their body, their decision
@@zax2153 nope, it’s the baby’s body. If mom tries to harm the baby, she must be punished. Life in prison or worse. Simple as that.
@@mosesking2923 Its nonsense, first of all its woman body and its up to mother what will happen with her body. If you want more babies, first fix current issues so babies which are already born are cared off and dont die, stop the wars and stuff like that so children can live instead of forcing others into something you believe and you want. This world is full of people already and this planet has limited resources, uncontrolled population boom without technological progression to go off planet will become serious issue in few decades so more famine, wars, death... but you dont even think about stuff like that right? Because you have some blind religion faith into something what doesnt exist :)
Why should a woman who was raped and got an abortion be treated the same as the rapist who forced themselves on that woman and got her pregnant with a child she never wanted and on top of that gave her PTSD?
Because she had a choice when it comes to killing her own child. Two wrongs don’t make a right. She didn’t have a choice for the crime perpetrated against her but she did have a choice for the crime she perpetrated against her own flesh and blood.
g(Rape) and incest makes up 0.03% of all abortions.
@@audreynettrouer8578 or or it could just be none of your dam business were she wants to keep it or not??
"she did have a choice for the crime she perpetrated against her own flesh and blood. "
What choice either have the scum bags kid or we judge you for not doing what we want. You want force not a choice and it's sick.
@@null627 The Purge? Abortion have been legal for 50 years, saying rape victim should have the option to get an abortion isnt a radical position at all.
Yes.
You are all crazy....
i think abortion is a constitutional rights/human rights/women's rights
But it’s not. Abortion is nowhere protected in the constitution, but guess what is, #1 Right to Life. How is it a human right when human rights are violated? How is it a woman’s right when future women are destroyed. Also we can’t even define what a woman is currently.
If you didn’t want a baby don’t do the dirty❤️ #abortionismurder
On whether the killing of abortionists should be a moral obligation for pro-lifers:
"Many people believe that the second Iraq war initiated by George W. Bush in 2003 was unjust, and although there is disagreement about the exact body count, there is no doubt that this war has taken the lives of thousands & thousands of innocent people. Were war protesters insincere in their convictions or hypocrites in their actions, since they did not attempt to assassinate President Bush, or any of his generals, or even any of the lower level military personnel who carried out this war? When war protesters do not themselves kill those who wage the war, no one accuses them of not "really" believing the war is unjust or not consistently living out their convictions. Yet, when foes of abortion condemn the killing of abortionists (as do all major pro-life groups), they are accused of not practicing what they preach." - Prof. Christopher Kaczor (The Ethics of Abortion. Second Edition, p. 219)
Thank you! This is really good!
I was thinking about what they spoke of at 4:00 . Although I was thinking if we go to war to defend the innocent. Why do we just wave placards when babies are knowingly being murdered in an abortion mill. I'm not saying we should do harm to abortionists etc. But if we know that an innocent human being is being torn limb from limb inside a building. What is the force required by those trying to defend the unborn.
This video is a great example of how all analogy ( in every topic ) eventually fails . Attempts on either side of this debate to use analogy are particularly prone to this weakness as abortion in a very unique set of circumstances and rights. This is just an academic point I'm making in general. But it might be a useful starting point as we seem to be going around in circles listening to the same arguments made on both sides talking past each other for almost 50 years. 🤔
@Qwerty there are several used in the video and they reach their natural limitations within the conversation, my point is an academic one in that all analogy breaks down when strechted enough as nothing is EXACTLY like something else. Abortion tends to bring that out more than most other topics regardless of which position one takes as it is unlike any other situation. Analogy is useful but only up to a point. That's my only point.
Yes, they *must* be punished for even *seeking* those "services" as that's hiring a hitman to kill their own child- it is child-murder, the ultimate child-abuse, and they have to be punished for even having that happen *to* them!
@@thezaerayashow Frankly that's a ridiculous claim, anybody who tries to force her to seek those truly Hellish services of those hitmen who murder babies is bereft of any say over her ever again if that's the case.
@@chissstardestroyer how about the rapists/doctors should they be punished
@@thezaerayashow If they are the hitmen who kill the babies: absolutely.
@@thezaerayashow 16,000,000%.
Actually, in regard to defense of other; there are no limits to what is to be done- and we must act with the precise intent that the attacker, no matter his state of mind, is lost to Hell as he dared to move against an innocent- and yes, this does oblige violent responses to abuses by those in power *against* the powerful until they are dead and in Hell for all eternity for even daring to exist when they have been given status by God.
I think we should pray for them also
@@amask99 Here's the elegance of your stance: nobody can possibly stop you from doing that- even by killing you they cannot stop you.
The misconduct involved in killing any unborn child for any reason on the part of any being at all is so horrendously evil that the punishment, minimum, must be to be sent to Hell with no appeal- even an act of "god" must be punished by eradicating the being, as any taking of the life of any unborn or innocent human being is so horrendously evil that there must be no possible repentance for the crime thereof against humanity.
Well, this was rather dark...
Fuckin.......YIKES! Came here because of the (unusually reasonable) discussion about the violinist problem.
But....
This guy definitely wants to attack doctors
You reap what you sow I guess.
yes
Yes
YOU PEOPLE ARE CRAZY
Should Women be Punished For Having an Abortion? WHAT KIND OF QUESTION IS THAT? ARE YOU CRAZY? YES YES YES you are crazy
The point is that it is consistent with their beliefs. If someone genuinely believes that aborting an embryo or fetus is identical to murder, then of course their take would be that woman would be legally culpable barring unusual circumstances.
i think abortion should be legal til 170 months
100 years in jail for the woman and the « doctor » !
Are you happy yet?
I despise abortion greatly to the point that my patriotism is dead because of it. Though I believe that an eye for an eye is a bad justice policy and punishment should focus on preventing further harm rather than for its own sake.
Most abortions are done because the woman is pressured by those around them and the world teaches women that pregnancy is a disease and parenthood will ruin their life. I think that women who get abortions should be removed from their rough environment and it should be treated similar to harmful mental health issues.
Pimps, abusive parents/partners and medical professionals who make it a goal to ensure that abortion happens however have no excuse for their actions and are a clear danger to society. Jailing them would be a good solution. Though abortion doctors who become pro-life advocates should be pardoned as they are no longer a danger to society.
@Danny Timms perhaps. I don't know how slippery that slope might be. It would be better if we cultivated a culture that didn't allow politicians to subsidise abortion and that dismissed abortion advocates immediately and thoroughly.
First!