From Idealization to Discard, It is All Abuse!
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- čas přidán 30. 05. 2023
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Why does narcissistic abuse cease after the shared fantasy is definitely over? What in the shared fantasy triggers abusive misconduct?
The shared fantasy metamorphesizes and mutates. It can become paranoid or anticipatory or courting or nostalgic.
It is terminated only via mortification, successful devaluation (betrayal), or appropriation (introject taken over by a substitute maternal figure).
Once switched off, the abuse stop instantly and thoroughly. Why is that?
The maltreatment within the shared fantasy is reframed by the narcissist as tough love, reactive abuse, a test of loyalty and allegiance, or the outcome of disillusionment with and exposure of the partner (devaluation).
But the abuse is also a form of cathexis. It is a pattern of attempts to coercively align the external object with the idealized internal object in order to maintain the idealization.
The narcissist mislabels idealisation as profound love because it is a reciprocal process (co-idealization) and involves maternal introjects.
But the narcissist associates love with hurt and anxiety. The abuse is a prophylactic: preemptive effort to forestall pain and, possibly, mortification by controlling and manipulating the potentially frustrating objects, both external and internal.
When the internal object is dormant (suspended), discarded, or no longer idealised (cathected), it no longer possesses the power to hurt the narcissist. At that point, there is no longer call for abuse. Any interaction following this phase is civil, even amiable.
Still, the minute the object is re-idealized (recathected in the hoovering phase), the abuse starts all over again.
Abuse and idealisation are inextricably linked because idealisation is a form of abuse: it involves objectification, parentification, and instrumentalization.
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The only abuse that I enjoyed was in the beginning when she was hovering and idealizing me but that only lasted about 6 months. The day of our wedding and I mean literally the day, it was like a light switch was flipped on. It was so night and day of a difference, I seriously thought about cancelling the wedding. In hindsight, I wish that I did because I could have avoided 17 years of hell. Recent subscriber here. I've watched a ton of video's over the years but you have made narcissism elementary. Thank you.
Which is nothing but bait to lure you in.
Thankful the lights came on finally and got out!
It all changed because of engulfment anxiety. My girlfriend has bpd and the good phase only lasted 6 months aswell. After that more 6 months of hell. All changed when she began treatment with therapy and medication (she takes pristiq). Now we are back to the 6 months of heaven so far. Treatment is important!
You know, I wanted to walk out of my wedding also, it took ten years to actually get out, and many lessons, some repeat experiences, and now I’m looking inside to heal myself to know better, or at least be able to heed the knowing that was there all along
@@user-zq8pp3ul2c Thanks
I see exactly how they try to test and see if you can still be pulled into the shared fantasy again with them, even when it’s over. My ex of 30 years dumped me for a 23 year younger “stylist,” performed a brutal and horrific smear campaign against me, stole and hid money from me during divorce and then showed up at my dad’s funeral last year (2 years post divorce) and was upset he couldn’t sit with me and our kids during the service, lol, then proceeded to love bomb me for weeks after the funeral, telling me what an amazing person I was, how he missed me so much, etc…and I actually felt those same “drugged” feelings I had at the beginning of the relationship, realized how icky it was and fully blocked and went no contact. No more delusions for me. I’ll take the truth-served up cold.
Sounds like your ex saw an opening with your father passing. He used a significant event to try to weasel his way in. He was hoping that you were vulnerable enough and that you forgot about the mistreatment you went through. Glad you were strong enough.
Which is why I would never want my ex to find out about any family deaths... We have a mutual restraining order (but I have never and would never attempt to contact him- it was just quicker than any other type of order) but I know he'd try to contact me. It wasn't weeks after our final court date before he sent an email to my attorney and me!? These guys are nuts.
Good for you. Sounds a little like my ex. Stay strong.
I like the word Icky. Describes it well
Narcs are very sick 💔
So disturbing hear😢
Wow wow wow. Mind blown. I saw all of this from my husband so long ago. I would say “stop trying to shove me into a mold of your mother- I don’t fit! That’s not me “. I always saw that he didn’t see one bit of me for who I am. Absolutely cannot. , does not have the ability. So incredibly enlightening!!!!!!!!!
The comedic irony in the narcissist's infinitely flawed perspective is they can easily obtain what they need from their partner--affection, kindness, acceptance, adoration, etc by discarding the introject instead of the external object. The non-comedic irony is despite after repeated inevitable failures of people unable to align with their internal representation within the shared fantasy, they never learn their introject is the common denominator of failure. Their conviction of "finding the true one" keeps the idea of a perpetual, perfect shared fantasy intact forever. This is easy to spot if you're dating in the 35+ age pool, they reframe their failures as "just not having found the right one yet" despite being at that point and have dated several partners in their adult lives.
You nailed it!!!! I should have known better to believe that he just hadn't met the "right woman" yet at 43 years old... Red flag, RUN! And instead, married this weirdo. Lesson learned. I even remember saying to him about his past girlfriends, "Um, well, the common denominator here is you..." We really do not give ourselves the credit we deserve that our intuition is pointing us towards... I will never doubt my gut check again. We knew it and ignored the red flags in order to somehow love them through it.
Idealization, love bombing, sex bombing was great and then they became a monster you could have never imagined before..devaluating you and finally discarding you like a trash
Excellent breakdown. When they idealize you they feel loved as ideal and therefore can in their mind justify loving themselves. They confuse idealization with love.
Overall - It never ends. The risk of being re-idealized is always present. You never know if your introject will be re-idealized. Only one solution to that; Never ever let him/her into your life again.
You could mortify him. No hoovering after mortification. Search the channel.
@@samvaknin yes - And I did see your videos on narcissistic mortification. I prefer “No contact” . Better safe than sorry :-)
Heck yeah! 👍
😊😊😊
This is 100% spot on. More people need to hear this message. Unless you have been afflicted by ? it's difficult to explain what you went through.
Thank you Sam. I'm 44 and this year fully woken up to the narcissist abuse from my mother, and the family scapegoating with it. What a wake up call this year. What a devastation. And what a god damn relief to find you on CZcams. Thank you. The work you are doing is saving lives. Many.
Same circumstances here. I'm 56 y.o. and young at heart. Dread having to go no contact and "divorce" the bullies, but alas, I must if I want to live to see 66 y.o. or older.
i discovered my own family/mother trauma also with 44. my mother beat up my brothers and little me was experiencing the violence. after i was emotional abused through comforting my mothe. in was in lots of absuing rships after. getting abused and then comforting and enabling my gfs. just crazy to understand finally your patterns. i wish you the best in your healing provess.
Agreed. There is NO part of this kind of relationship that is not abusive. Only as a hard lesson in learning about what it is and avoiding it in the future. This is a long road….
This touches on the darkest side of my ‘past’ relationship. One that I never believed could be articulated or communicated to anyone. My ex partner believed his abuse was ‘helping me’ to fulfil my potential 😢… become my higher self. I think he still believes that this relationship has served to do this… ironically in some ways it has as I recognise the humongous amount of work and inner strength in my battle to truly heal but it’s such a twisted and toxic mentality. Even now I’m (2 years out) I’m constantly aware of not being sucked back in to the shared fantasy even though there is no contact!
Oh my! I couldn't have said it better myself. Also two years out, or close to it. And still aware of the shared fantasy although there's no contact. Somehow he lives on in my mind, and I think he knows it. Aargh!
Maybe journaling will help you both weaken the shared fantasy.
Sam you saved my life, saved me from myself and my narc. Your clarity and intelligence I've listened to you the last 6x weeks. I understand
Thank you thank you thank you. The level of abuse I endured this past 12months, all emotional not physical. I literally lost myself. Listening to your videos made my head get above water. Thank you
Got this makes me so sick and feel hollow and clammy inside. When I think about my past I wonder if I can ever place myself in a position for healthy love. So many of my thoughts beliefs and feelings feel so impossible to relinquish.
Respect yourself please, and do what you have to do when you need to do it. It can be a poisoned well you find when you might be dying of thirst.
I am so glad to find you on youtube. I am very much enjoying all of your content. Approximatly 20 years ago I purchased Malignant Self-Love: Narcissism Revisited in an effort to help my Mother and I understand the dynamic my Father has on our family. There were so few resources back then, but your book was illuminating and it helped us tremendously. I am pleased to be able to learn from you and hear you speak. You are as engaging on screen as you are an author, I personally enjoy the casual tone, and I appreciate what you are doing here. I read the comments and I see people being enlightened and helped and it's wonderful to witness.
Best review ever!
I kept telling my Nspouse 'I am not your mother' and 'its not my job to make you happy'.
I've been married to him for 30yrs and finally decided to take my iwn room. He seems happy to sleep alone and take care of his own sexual needs. Two years this roommate situation has gone on. During that time I found out about N. Im getting a plan together to leave but whenever I get close, he gets better. It's still abuse tho. Shared fantasy hit me hard. Its true.
A phrase that helps me stay focused is, "they know what they're doing." They also don't think you'll ever figure them out.
Husband and I just got discarded by his sister. Combination of sadness and deep relief after years of suffering. Thank you for this. It helps.
God help me, 1 month without contact.
Good for you! Stay strong!!!
Well, “Kaputt” is a pretty correct word for what’s left of me.
I’ve watched this video 3 times now, and am kind of shocked.
Your video explains everything that within all these years never made sense, even after watching like 500 other videos and literature in more than 4 years. Now it does 🧨
Around a decade ago I was diagnosed with a very bad cancer and treated with every bad therapy available on this planet. I somehow made it to survive and after years to get back on my feet. And during this short good time I met him… followed by more than 5 years of all kinds of abuse, including his family. As you explain in understandable details, Prof. Sam, it didn’t stop at any point, not with the official end of the relationship, not with anything or any way I tried to escape it, not with any bad event that happened. It didnt stop with my health breaking down to the lowest point ever (lower than chemotherapy and radiation and 9 surgeries did !), probably not even my death will be enough 🤷🏻♀️
There is a saying that “understanding is nothing but the wooden spoon”. This is exactly what it feels like when I look at my current situation.
My situation right now but thanks to you I'm learning not getting hoovered
Thank you Prof.Vaknin. Your fascinating presentation succinctly describes the complex and convoluted behaviour manifestation of this form of abuse. As a layperson, I experience this knowledge as crucial for restructuring mental health. It offers a foundation of clarity and sensibility regarding this pervasively, destructive abusive process, and a framework of understanding the need for processing separation/individuation. Thank you, once again for sharing on this platform.🌼
Very well said. ✨
So true… that is exactly what I experienced, however, he did not know that he was dealing with a survivor … my mother.. abused me so much it made me very strong. I felt the abuse ,however, I was able to disconnect myself.
It's terrible that we've learned to survive that way. At least we did.
What you are doing for us, is of the utmost importance…young people should get your videos and listen to them ,before they start getting into intimate relationships… I think that it will save them a lot of regrets ..not to speak of the unhappiness.
Yes, abuse that their friends and close people just do not see it when told about it....
You had me at coffee ☕️ and wine 🍷 😂😂 you are the best!! ❤
I was about to ask a question and then you answered my question, which was a profound moment. Firstly being introduced to the very clear and obvious truth that idealisation is abuse, this landed. It is so pathological isn't it, and not based in reality at all. A drug for the individual seeking validation to soothe an old wound. Secondly the approach avoid behaviour as a subconscious self protectve strategy. This makes sense and explains why I've heard psychotherapists say "They view you as their mother or father". It also validates the experience of one has of witnessing and feeling like a different person has entered the room. People ask themselves "who is this angry cold person, and why can't I reach them emotionally"?.......It is Sam a brilliant summary and reminder as I've heard to hypothesise before that all personality disorders are really responses to childhood trauma and really PTSD. Thank you
This video will be one I will be listening many times. It describes everything I went through to the point I can better fully understand and find more inner peace with what I can’t change but happened and explains the craziest twist and turn my relationship after many years together suddenly and yet gradually took. Your talks are bright with light and definitely powerful!
Is it possible that although a narcissist has found a replacement that he keeps the snapshots' fantasies of his 'harem' alive ? Is it possible that he preserves the snapshots of various mommies even after their discard and replacement(s)?
Is it possible for you to search the channel?
@@samvaknin Oh .....it s been four months now, Professor. I have been watching regularly every day. I have visited your site. I have the vaknin talks app and keep reading every day. This might have slipped. Thanks anyway. All your videos and texts and valuable.
Impossible love.
I used to tell him “take off the black sunglasses that you ware during arguments (as a metaphor) cause he kept painting everything I say or do with black as a very bad thing !!!
Before I knew of bpd + npd 😢
Will the shared fantasy ever end?
Its been years and he still contacts me with this delusion that we will live happily ever after if I would just forget the awful things he did to me.
Ask him for a huge sum of $$.
He'll leave you alone.
It might if you very bluntly and coldly cut it off. When a narcissistic ex from 20 years ago contacted me by email during the pandemic I made the mistake of somewhat engaging only to instantly regret it when it became clear he was trying to lure me into his trap again. I then clearly stated (by email) I was not interested in talking to him. He flew into an all caps rage of some sort (I barely read it) and I immediately deleted and blocked him. Who knows - he might try to contact me again (we don’t even live in the same country anymore) but if he does, I will not make the mistake of trying to be polite and engaging. He will be ignored.
@@ak-47intelligence75great point - I have found this too - the best way to get rid of these people is to have expectations of them .. to simply refuse to carry the weight of the “relationship” ..
I want to say thank you ! I'm not a student ,but i am a mother raised and educated in eastern Europe .We have sooo much to learn from you.I have 4 kids and i am so glad that they are my kids.They are perfect the way they are,but i did mistakes part from my ignorance and part from all systems who were involved in my education and care when i was child.But is never too late to learn and improove,and be better today,not tomorow. I subscribed to your chanell .Thank you again.
Absolutely amazing !
Looking forward to hearing the truth! Thanks Sam. You have helped me more than you can ever imagine!
It makes so much sense. Thank you.
Thank you Sam. Short, factual and very understandable.
Very good. Thank you.
Thank you Sir. You helped me so much over the years.
Excellent information👍. We’ll done sir!
❤ Thank you again so much you have changed my life rap. You have educated me and I just cannot thank you enough
Thank you!
Fascinating stuff.... mind blowing
Helps so much, this particular video has been incredible - Bravo
Thank you you are saving my emotional sanity I listen to you constantly I appreciate you so much
The way you explain what used to be my everyday experience is so insightful I have let go in ways I didn’t know existed
Thankyou..I am beginning to see the most complicated aspects of an abusive relationship, almost (I’m not quite there yet) as clear as day! You are an amazing teacher: you’re content/videos really are helping me now. Iv watched you fairly consistently for about 3 years; & it’s starting to come together for me now…slowly but surely; I’m happy with that…x
Prof. Vaknin outstanding clarity as always thank you, it is a perfect representation of my experience and instinctive feelings about what was going on. Your closing comments are harsh but really must be true.
Thanks Sam , for all your work. I have been now watched your videos for a few years. 😂
Half way through this I had a question that was then answered. I got out of a marriage over 20 years ago and he has continued with a string of women, acting out the same abuse every time although that abuse has now escalated to include physical intimidation. Always the same pattern. I know because they come to me afterwards. None of them know each other, but he makes sure they know about me, although they all have a different version of our time together. However, although I have had no contact or as little as possible for 2 decades (due to tbeing the only one having children with him) he is now trying to hurt me via my adult children and their children. Presumably I'm being re-idealised periodically, even though he finds others in the meantime.
thank you this helped!!
Your "almost dating profile" is interesting and informative. What I like most about your videos is that I find them not too complicated to understand and the content you provide is very interesting, presented in a way which seems to be unique.
I'm very grateful that people talk about these sorts of things, & here we have a professor set out to discuss for those that choose to watch this the issues that must be confronted about society & ourselves, & I'm going to keep up-to-date with this because this information can really assist society in doing that that heals the world from psychological issues. I have an Asperger's Syndrome diagnosis & I may be narcissistic, yet it's difficult for me to tell, & anyways narcissism is very common today, including spiritual materialism. I hope we as society can get over this terrible affliction, & I'm glad that not everyone is blinded by self-centeredness & uncaringness.
Bravo! What a Masterclass 🙌🏼🫶🏼 Never disappoint Dr Vaknin.
Thanks for your videos. Your info is great! When I doubt myself as to whether my soon to be ex husband is really a narcissist, I listen to you and I know he is!! The way you talk about narcissim makes me want to ask if you have met my ex as you always describe him perfectly. I listen to you and nod my head and say yes because you nail it. Thank you for being real.
I would like thank u for all the knowledge ur giving us this is huge and u dot it whit grace et joy ❤🎉
Sams drinking wine.. we’re in for a good one 🙂😎
Thank you for another enlightening and informative video, Professor Vaknin.
I could listen to you all day.
This information is not convoluted or hard to understand. Contrary it’s exactly what I was struggling to put into words. I’m now building a strong and profound foundation of introspection because of this work. Thank you, Dr.
Same here. After we got married he totally changed his behavior. When I asked him why he married me? He said because of the tax deduction and so nobody else could have me! I was devastated and am still trying to get loved by him after this confession. Yeah I need a therapist
27:47 just when I thought there might be some redemptive quality of the narcissist needing to have a happy ending Sam further describes it as the victim being cast into utter oblivion. Obviously not a happy ending from the victim's perspective. FML 🤣🤣🤣
Sam, you are a clever, handsome, intelligent man. But what is more important is your inner motivation. How you work on the content. I want to express my gratitude. Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for your brilliant insights and systematization! Although I understood a lot myself about my narcissistic ex and did right things to get rid of him, that very fact that I understand him and his unhuman logic is scary, sometimes I feel I must be mental if I understand this. We need tones of validation of crazy experience we got living with narcissistic partners. The work you do is very very important. Also you are drop dead gorgeous 😊
Gran finale 😮
My son married a narc. She just convinced him to discard us💔
That is so sad 😢
For someone who’s not a dad, you sure have the dad jokes down! Lol
All that makes a lot of sense... indeed he was taking to me the same way as her. And all that shift and confusing behaviors and how how i didnt know with who he was interacting with when talking to me. Either a good self i didnt understand who or a false bad me based on many stories created about my past life and its meaning. So so confusing
100% what happened to me.
I would like to share a recording with you and hear your thoughts on it.. would that be possible? you can do with it as you please afterward for teaching purposes.. I believe its a good example of this lecture.
Okay I think i understand except I believe I have mortified him and still nothing. Makes sense that the other solution would be to be replaced but its clear to me that his last partner is still part of his fantasy because all ive heard in the last 12 years was about her.. the most discussed topic on how she abused him and his excuse for why he abused me… he talked about it / her daily how much of a victim he was/ is. So is she still part of his shared fantasy? Can a narcasist have two shared fantasys at same time?
If he founds a new one is there chance he will still hold on to the one he had with me?
If he keeps coming back, you did not mortify him.
@@samvaknin is it possible i did and he reidealized me? Because it seems its the nostalgic shared fantasy. Does there come a point when there is no longer chance of reidealizing… i guess what im asking is can you ever really be free from a narcissist once he has had a shared fantasy with you?
@@deloresleia5738yes you can be free when you block them & if that doesn’t work get a restraining order. If you have kids together go to court & explain how u need to communicate, with little contact as possible. You’re not a hostage of the narcissist. If he’s still holding on, that’s none of your business.
@@jazz_honey Shared fantasies are almost identical across partners.
We are still in the divorce process, and we are child custody, and I have told just a court about the abuse. I would assume that is mortifications because of his level of hatred
Hello Professor Vaknin! Can you describe an intimate relationship between a covert narcissist and a covert borderline?
Thank you!
I didn't want to listen... Now I'm heartbroken. I knew it and I didn't listen
Pure genius!
They did a fake marriage of mine just to throw me out of a company....
That's heights of a distorted company or companies working together to play with individuals life,career,money etc
Can you ever know for sure that you mortified your narc? I’m fairly certain that I did, unknowingly… out of anger. I exposed him publicly, destroyed things very near and dear to him, and sent him packing in a weakened state. I believe him to be a covert narc. It seems the only way to know for certain if he was mortified is if he never hoovers, because of course narcs have been known to hoover even years after a break up.
Do girls do this with their dolls? Just a thought.
It’s like a game of Snap right? Queen + Queen = Snap! And there’s a winner or winners in this case. However, Queen + King = 0 therefore no Snap and both players loose. Is this a good analogy Prof? 🤞🏻
So me and my ex I do believe notification has happened because I have called him out and he hates me, but the abuse still continues. Does that mean to share fantasies still exist and it’s not dead
Wine and Coffee
Can you explain shared fantasy in detail? I did not get it.
Can you search the channel?
Tchin tchin! Santé Salud🙂
But if you share a young child and she, the narcissist, is determined to ‘own’ the child and disparages you without shame or limit of accusation against you, what then? If we can get along on the surface in front of the child but aside from that she seeks to destroy you. What then?
Search the From Child to Narcissist playlist.
a workplace having a dirty environment.... based on contract deals on staff....based upon dirty projects on individuals .....
Something is wrong doings of a company not u.....
magnum opus video
sad. gross. almost pornographic. accurate.
Bpd as well?
Most definitely
In a different way. Search the channel.
Is it same with a BPD ex?
No.
Τρέλα
Do Borderlines also have internal representation relationships?
No. Search the channel.