The Real Problem With Linux's New BSOD System
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
- There has been a lot of work on too resolve the issue with Linux kernel panics messages basically not working, by not working I mean not showing not showing up when you're in a graphical environment.
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DRM Panic Video: • Kernel Panic Messages ...
First Comment: fosstodon.org/@javierm/112619...
Phoronix Article: www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-D...
Second Comment: fosstodon.org/@javierm/112650...
Phoronix Article 2: www.phoronix.com/forums/forum...
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I think that the default message should be "Please reboot yo" regardless of screen size
This is your Linux kernel, yo 💥
An unrecoverable error has been encountered, *yo* 💥
Uh-huh 💥
You need to reboot your system 💥
@@jenbanimdamn you beat me to it
@@jenbanim I hope the error message is configurable...
if yes mine will be the wild west of error screens because why not
Talking like Killer Bee ya fool ya fool. Lol
On another channel there is someone who always writes a "hellorld" program rather than a "hello world" because he made that mistake once.
People argue over the most stupid things when everyone really knows the real crime is no penguin with a smiley face being shown!!!
Would tux with a frown be too much like a Mac? Smiling tux feels like he is mocking me after he killed my computer.
Now we must argue about the logo's facial expressions for 8 pages!
Kernel panics aren't really something to be happy about. I think it would be better if Tux was frowning, fallen over, or dazed, and maybe add a hammer/hard hat too? I'm not sure if they plan to support drawing images though. It would be really funny if people started ricing their BSOD for r/unixp with custom images.
@@placebo_name I want a tux on a tricycle with a saw mask laughing at me
Perhaps it should be a black screen with a command line penguin using a maritime telescope to survey each software conflict and their respective troubleshooting instructions.
Rico would seem like the appropriate penguin for a BSOD
Blaming the BSOD for your computer crashing is the nerd equivalent of "why don't they move the deer crossing somewhere else?"
Or "I don't take Antipsychotics drugs, therefore I don't have Schizophrenia"
I understood that reference 😹
There was a screenshot of a tweet going around recently which said something like “for every sci-fi robot that goes evil, there is an engineer that specifically installed red LEDs in the eyes for just that circumstance”. Only one person I saw responded saying that of course, that’s an important safety feature, the alternative is an evil robot without a visible indication.
BSOD: Brown Screen Of Death = your computer has pooped itself
Bread screen of death = your computer is bread
Blue? Black? If I can't have Nyan Cat playing in a loop as my BSOD I'd rather just have a frozen GUI screen.
I'd prefer flying toasters
O.M.G. Yes!
Better question: Can it be an animated screen 🤔
@@zerron2156 Computer I know you are dying but I would like you to please render this animated screen for my amusement.
i would prefer a Cyan Nat.
I insist that the message be changed to "Please reboot, yo!"
Or: «Gotta reboot, bro!»
With a penguin scull on a red background. That was a really good idea.
Blue is the right color. People know what a BSOD is. The blue helps communicate that.
Who cares... Each distro gonna theme the bsod to reflect it's branding. Just have clear wording and ship it.
Exactly. A lot of people are very quick to forget that everyone will instantly know what blue is.
Exactly. People not getting this is just one of those things that severely hinders the "year of desktop linux"...
I disagree. It's only true if you're from the windows world. In Linux, the "something is wrong" color is black, because that's the TTY background color.
@@felixfourcolor Unless you use the tty or a terminal emulator all the time.
"wait what is this? why is my screen blue? i dont read anything on blue, this means nothing to me. devs please fix"
If thats what gets people to report the issue then so be it
“what about this wheel thingy? It sounds a terribly interesting project.” “Ah,” said the marketing girl, “well, we’re having a little difficulty there.” “Difficulty?” exclaimed Ford. “Difficulty? What do you mean, difficulty? It’s the single simplest machine in the entire Universe!” The marketing girl soured him with a look “All right, Mr. Wiseguy,” she said, “you’re so clever, you tell us what color it should be.”
― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
I forgot about that line. In fact, I still don't remember it and I'm just going to believe you that it exists.
Pff. What did Douglas Adams know? His big message was _Don't_ panic. 😝
They underestimated the ingenuity of complete fools in the comments
@@RockyPixelDoes the name "Golgafrinchans" jog any memories loose?
I came here just for this comment! Well, at least we have found our entire useless third of our planet 😂
The only correct color here is green. Specifically a green blob with two hands, a tongue sticking out, and the text: "DON'T PANIC! And make sure you know where your towel is."
Yes but I don't think our technology is advanced enough for that.
Brat green would be good for a bsod (brat screen of death)
Why not just a big 42 on the screen? (I think it was 42, but it's been a while).
Obviously the most important feature is for the Linux BSOD to appear for only half a second and with _barely_ enough information given that would give you the slightest of hope of solving it (but not enough to _actually_ solve it).
And of course needs a QR code to a completely useless article.
And you have to login to your Linux account after rebooting.
@@felixfourcolorPlus to login you have to send the code they send to your phone
And a :( face
On windows it’s very easy to read out the contents of all past bluescreens with a tool. On Linux I hope it is going to the usual logs. Can’t remember when I had a kernel panic the last time on Linux. Too long ago. On Windows all bluescreens I had were because of faulty graphics drivers.
@@mudi2000a yes it was from nirsoft, it's called bluescteenview
I think the only reasonable solution is to have panic messages be displayed on a pulsating multicolored screen. If it doesn't induce epileptic seizures I can't really consider it an actual kernel panic, it's merely a minor kernel dismay...
Now THAT is a kill screen! Don’t call it a screen-of-death unless it has a literal bodycount
Funny thing there are two reason's why the BSOD screen is blue:
- Lowest common denominator for video hardware that NT could run on supported White on Blue
- The developer who wrote it(John Vert) had a MIPS RISC development PC which by default was White on Blue on the firmware.
Btw you can change the color using the "Not my fault" utility by sysinternals on windows.
That maybe true, but I think it goes far - far before windows was even a thing.
White on Blue was the microsoft trademark on all their MSDOS apps from the start. As it was for a lot of Text mode apps back in the era. The thing is that colored backgrounds over white text made possible to highlight words with real "bold" character, by changing to the brighter white. Of all the basic colors, the only one pleasan to the eyes was the blue. So that was it.
Windows installers were white on blue as the ms dos installer, and all the other apps.
Anything "text" mode was white over blue.
BSOD just followed the same theme.
First time I encountered a BSOD, I briefly thought the PC had somehow loaded WordPerfect.
@@erinw6120 Exactly, at that time, when most people used amber or green text only monitors, white over blue was how you show off your expensive color monitor :) (I associate white/blue with the first AT, maybe was when all this started?)
You don't even need a utility to change color anymore because it's the same color as your accent color set in the personalization settings
@@framegrace1 Not for NT, John Vert never worked on Windows on DOS or DOS. It was simply a personal choice for him.
The real question is can I set an embarrassed anime girl as BSOD background? I think this is what a substantial part of the linux desktop configuring community would like to see from their operating system kernel.
"Yo dudes, kernel panic is pretty chill. You can reboot or something"
This video still didn't explain whether we could have a brown screen of death. It's really important to my workflow to know when the kernel craps itself.
why not display a image of a penguin that is crapping on the ground
Segmentation fault (core dumped)
The BSOD isn't Hotdog Stand yellow on red and doesn't have a animated cat dancing in ASCII art, so it's bad.
If that were the case, I would be "Come on dammit, CRASH!!!!"
Aye, that's a Linux BSOD, that is a Bikeshedding Overdose.
I was hoping for guru meditation. But "please reboot yo" should be the staple and permanent
make it a Brodie screen of death. Every time you get a kernel panic the background has a picture of Brodie
Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy: a useless group couldn't invent the wheel, because they couldn't agree what colour it should be.
Thank you for reminding me of that.
I feel like a script to make the colour different every single time in a randomized way would be great but I also feel like I'd forget about it by the next time the stack crashed and be like "...why is this taupe?"
Could put in lots of B colours. Burgundy bistre bisque birch byzantium barberry
oh boy more bikeshedding, my favorite. i love the amount of bikeshedding in linux, especially wayland. its wonderful!
TRU. these fat nerds with no life are the entire reason "the year of the linux desktop" will never exist.
Me too!
I love when solutions to problems evade us just because people like arguing :)
Let's ignore everything you said and say that it's actually gnu/linux because that's the important part
In this case it's just a bunch of dumbasses on a forum, at least. I went into the video expecting actual developers to be bike-shedding the feature and was pleasantly surprised.
In addition to configurable color they should add a "surfer dude" text option where it conveys the error message in surf slang and other "extreme sports" so it can just say "Please restart yo!"
If there are any football/soccer related messages I will not be responsible for my actions. And it will be very expensive in terms of replacing hardware.
[I hail from England. I am not a football fan. I am now an ex-pat. You can connect the dots.]
Now I'm picturing it in Porky Pig.
Geniunely I prefer the 'Blue' in BSOD, as it's sooo outstandingly 'my screen never has this much of THAT blue ever', that I noticed instantly. I get it you don't want to copy windows modern BSOD, but good lord wouldn't you want to learn from MS and their past BSOD where were all soo helpful and got used to quickly find the majority of issues, with only some being sort of related crashes because of another unrelated crash (but gathering several BSODs and the system behavior was & still is very valuable consumer information for troubleshooting)
Windows BSOD are 'as generic' now because ... they kind of have to be really, given the insane variety of people it serves & HW it sits on. They provide most the time safe & easy to do troubleshooting tips... for even those who can't read a stack trace to save their lives.
I should go make a patch to make it a rainbow screen of death, that way everyone got their color of choice in there. Inclusive!
systemd-pride
@@everypizza PSOD
bsod | lolcat
LGBTSOD
Fail. I want my panic to be purple, which doesn't exist in rainbows. 😂
I think it's important that the BSOD is brown Text on green Background - that way you know your system just shat itself in the forest. It also looks terrible.
This thread is a testament to the brilliance of bots and their capacity for growth. 🤖
to solve the very serious choice of color problem both the background and foreground should be made of random noise
I've been running Linux distros regularly for around 7 years or so, and I've only ever seen maybe 3 kernel panic messages.
And like you said, I didn't do anything with it. Rebooted and continued as normal.
Barring some unforeseeable catastrophe, I have no personal stake in this change and can't imagine that it will reduce anyone's experience in a meaningful way.
Still, a standard command line output just _feels_ aesthetically nicer in my opinion. The whole BSOD thing just makes me think of Microsoft.
I'm thinking from the perspective of newbies - I think blue is actually good. Sure, black is nice, but if newbies see a terminal-like screen, they'll just blank out and panic. At least if it's blue, it suggests that the OS still has things under control, the computer isn't damaged
Bikeshedding is my favourite past-time activity
holy shit the number of bots here is shocking
it's four
@@everypizzai remember times when there were 0, haven't been on youtube for a while
Perhaps the Linux BSOD can become the Black Screen Of Diagnostics, featuring a command line penguin looking through its trusty maritime telescope to inspect each inherent software conflict and the respective troubleshooting instructions thereof.
as someone who encountered frequent kernel panics when doing weird, or even just normal gaming things, please yes give me information, no, i don't care what it looks like
My system has a problem where every few weeks the compositor goes bananas and the screen freezes, nothing is responding and even vt is inaccessible - but I can still ssh into the computer. Knowing that it isn't a kernel panic because I would see a kernel panic screen is a huge improvement.
i mean, it's not a kernel panic if ssh continues to work.
@@chri-k of course, but from outside the machine, with no network, it's hard to distinguish between the input and out being dead and actual panic - without the DRM panic feature.
@@guss77 true
but i like the kernel vt messages, they feel so raw
DRM crashing bringing up the kernel vt would 💯 be a valid solution for a lot of peoole. But the problem is that right now, all that happens is that your system completely locks up and *shows you nothing.*
As Brodie says in the video repeatedly, people don't realize this, because the kernel almost never panics for most Linux users.
@@GSBarlev thats exactly what i want, the kernel VT to pop up. And i had a kernel panic locking my system recently.
Who remembers the "BSODomizer"? A little remote controlled box you put inline between the victim's video card & monitor. You click a button on the remote and it would display a fake BSOD.
the error screen should be a picture of linus torvalds with the text "you are going to die now"
If the kernel panics, it should dump to a kernel log. If it panics before the graphical interface starts, you get a kconsole dump. If you get a kernel panic, you are pretty screwed because there's not a lot of info on debugging kernel panics.
I want flashing red, and the words "Guru Meditation."
I second this.
To continue the dance of color -- IMHO if the VT is white on black, a kpanic being the same color is too similar to the default to be simple to identify (imagine a class of computers), so blue is better than black and since we have a cultural expectation of what white text on blue background means on a screen blue also satisfies POLS...
Thus, I'd say a BSOD actually has two functions: saying that things went wrong (and how), and to be easily identifiable.
But, for those people who use Linux as "not a windows", yeah, I understand why blue is worse than any other color =)
I'm not at ease with the idea of a Beige Screen of Death. I think a Burgundy Screen of Death is my favorite. I'd prefer a Brass Screen of Death over a Bronze Screen of Death, but a Beryl Screen of Death would be better. And as many people have already said, a Brown Screen of Death is a complete no-go. 🤡
Looks like this choice of colour has really got people feeling blue
On a more serious note, I see no downsides to this. I got some BSOD trauma from earlier Windows versions where they popped up often due to driver problems or other things but, like you said, they are only the messenger and at least at some point they became useful in trying to troubleshoot issues.
We should all agree that the ideal color scheme for the Linux BSoD should be a black background with bright red text and a blinking box outline.
2:52, I'm sorry, but Screen of Death is such a metal name for something so nerdy.
Having a bright colour on the screen is actually quite important. It has to grab your attention.
I've had a few kernel panics (just didn't know it was because the system just freezes) so it will be nice to finally know what causes them. I can expect some more useful bug reports once bsods start rolling out to users.
I'll make it purple
Also people should stop trying to kill the messenger
How VMWare of you.
A panic screen is supposed to stand out, not something you stare at for hours.
Blue is a good color.
That doesn't means it can't be cool uwu
Red with a penguim skull is better
I really liked the idea about the penguin skull at the bottom of the screen. Reminds me of the ancient "Guru Meditation Error" of my now very dead Amiga Computer. This is not important of course, like the information concerning the cause of the crash etc... but let's face it - as in other important areas of life, using Linux occasionally requires a sense of humor.👀
People being angry at the “your operating system quit unexpectedly” popup is indeed a little funny when you think about it.
I do, however, feel my stomach drop when the audio buffer underflows and you get the last buffer full of audio playing on repeat. Oh boy, something must have gone horribly wrong…
This "don't use blue" mentality is why Gimp keeps struggling with adoption - they go out of their way to not be proprietary-like as possible to user's detriment.
Congratulations you solved no problem and also caused confusion and delay
WEIRDO FOSS GATEKEEPERS UNITE!
Insert my eyes rolling here.
Yeah gimp has always been really obnoxious to use
pretty weird to compare a colour to proprietary.
@@turtlefrog-tn3ek which is the point.
These people think intuitive easy to use and standardized UX or COLORS are proprietary THEREFORE we must make the exact opposite everywhere everytime.
Makes no sense and that's the point.
@@Mordecrox To be fair, some companies have tried (not sure if they succeeded) with slapping their UI designs with an "intellectual property of us" sticker, to prevent their competitors from using it. Not sure how likely an open source project is of getting sued because of that, though. My uninformed intuition tells me it's a pretty negligible likelihood, but as I said, I don't really know.
EDIT:
Might have been patents and not intellectual property, was a while ago I read about it.
I want every letter and the background of that letter to be a different color and each word to be in a different font. And each new line changes the font size.
Lmfaoooo this is hysterical to watch unfold.
In all seriousness though. In more than a decade of running various Linux desktops and servers, I may have seen a kernel panic once, which was hard to tell because my computer froze, my wife spilled coffee on my Desktop which some landed on my GPU and I think caused the thing to crash the display driver. Ironically, it survived after drying it out with some paper towels. EVGA's build quality is / was astounding.
The reason that people of a certain age are more concerned with the BSOD rather than, as you astutely pointed out several times, is that Win3,xx - XP BSOD'ed _alot_. This is one area that MS has vastly improved in. Take a 15 yro from today where its either crap applications or bad RAM stick and go back to 1998 they would lose their mind, just because all the troubleshooting skills of today are virtually worthless. The BSOD is literally PTSD for some folks. In fact this is what got me onto Slackware back in 1995 and Red Hat pseudo-permanently in 2000 (when 2.6 kernel dropped in beta, had to have it due to hardware I was waiting on a kmod for). People don't appreciate how much better things have been on the MS from since Vista (ought to be with a 10 year dev cycle). Still won't use MS or Apple anymore.
6:30 I want my error screen to give me information, and without PTSD included...
What I don't like nowadays is the tendency of software in general to hide information from the users. Any BSOD, no matter the color 🤦♂️, should give the essential minimal information (if possible) of what triggered the error. Of course there are the LOGs to investigate, but the BSOD could always give the first step for investigation, for the chance you can't see the LOGs later...
To be fair, my first thought seeing the screenshot was "why blue"
My first thought was literally "ew, blue... reminds me of Windows, can we change that pls?"
Typical accidental Linux PR disaster lol, glad to have error messages finally!
Obviously the correct color is in fact out a single color the error info encapsulated in a black rectangle that sits on top of a TV test card/pattern
Also, a favepalm gif background would be fun too
As silly as this colour debate is, the amber screen of death suggestion seems like a great choice to me.
I might configure the system to display like that once this gets released on Arch.
This definitely is a great addition, but the complaint's of Windows's (modern) BSODs not being verbose enough is valid, gauging by the ones I experienced.
Though even this is a rarity, both my Linux systems randomly crash more than the family Windows laptop.
Been tinkering with my A1200 lately so I'm going to say... What's wrong with the good ole' "Guru Meditation" error?
I don't think I have encountered a kernel panic... but if I have, or if I do end up seeing one, my reaction is probably just going to be:
Oh no! Anyway.
lol Top Gear nice
I want a blood-red screen with instructions on reporting the panic to the devs.
“Don’t shoot the messenger”
I have seen quite a few kernel panics. There are two places where it seems to happen.
1) When I am shutting down Linux Mint the very last thing the process tries to do is turn off the power. For whatever reason, sometimes the power doesn't go off and instead the code gets to the kernel panic state. I suspect this is a hardware issue on the PC involved.
2) On Puppy Linux, you can make your own version by "remastering". If the result of "remastering" is a squash file system that doesn't fit into RAM, you get a kernel panic.
there's something to be said about white on black being objectively better. that is, if one or more color channel(s) of your monitor dies, you will still be able to see it fine with white on black, but might not with other combinations.
The most hilarious thing in the Linux space to me is how people think that if windows does a thing then Linux has to either not do that thing or do it in a completely different way. The only considerations for if Linux should do a thing the way Windows does a thing or not is if it's a good idea to do it that way and if interoperability with the way Windows does it is important. Is it a bad idea? Don't copy it. Is it a good idea? Do copy it.
I never heard anyone ever say "BeeSOD"
Something else kernel panics are useful for is when you compile the kernel yourself and set custom options. They provide great insight into what is wrong when you boot up so you can recompile the kernel and resolve the issue. I had my fair share of kernel panics, and they always happened at boot time for me.
Also, the screen isn't aggressive enough, it should be a white background with yellow text.
just for the record, arent kernel panics stored on a log file? like, wouldnt you be able to reboot and then do cat so some specific file on some route, where all kernel panics are stored? if not, i think that would be handy
When kernel panic happens you can't be sure in filesystem modules integrity, so any writing to FS could potentially break it.
@@w01dnick thats true, however i think it should be possible (idk if it actually is)
what i mean is having it disabled as default, but being able to enable it, assuming the risk but you might prefer that in some specific case
@@H3cJP well, earlier there was a way to write dump into swap partition but it seems it's not used anymore (as still not safe, needs intact block device modules).
Now you can use kdump+kexec, that will boot into another kernel that will dump crashed one into dump file, but you need to preload another kernel at boot time in reserved memory that couldn't be used. So usually it's not active.
video description has broken my brain
I hope we can customize it with some anime girl ascii arts, or even use colorful squares to create low resolution image, that wpuld be so linux...
FYI
On windows, BSODs are actually called Bugchecks
Windows bsod color can also be changed, and is different depending on the os branch you are on^
For example insiders get a green GSOD
During a short period of W11, they were also Black, not Blue
I dont get why people call blue the "windows color", blue is blue, not windows
Can't wait for the color to be a choice you make on install (or after).
Phoronix's comments're golden. I highly recommend having a read, the links're in Brodie's description, up above
I want mine to say "Ah shit, here we go again"
Did something change in the way kernel panics occur over the last decade? When I first started using Linux it was on Gentoo 15 years ago and as a result regularly triggered kernel panics because of my own ignorance. I would reboot my computer, load up the dmesg log, and see what my system was doing before it crashed along with some valgrind output. I haven't seen a kernel panic in nearly 15 years, which is a testament to how good Linux is compared to the alternatives, but I assumed things hadn't changed from useful logs after a kernel panic.
A kernel panic should be a different color than the default terminal background. Blue, deep red, chartruse, anything other than black.
My only beef with the bsod screen is that the text is going to get cut off the top of the screen, because that's what always happens with panics and oopses.
Nice 90's song on your whiteboard
it's still a BSOD, just "Black Screen Of Death"
the windows was only blue because the person working on the BSOD just happened to like the color that their computer's terminal was by default so they made the BSOD (actually called "BugCheck") into blue.
The correct quote is "I'm blue da ba dee da ba *da*". The autotune just made it sound wonky.
The whiteboard was a nice touch
I actually in situation where I'd like to see the whole kernel panic. But I can't. The only think that I know is that kernel panics, black screen comes up, nothing else happens. Kernel panic only seeing if I boot from archinstaller in BIOS mode, and it's only part of the message that says something broken about high precision timer. And debian boots just fine. So yeah, kernel panic in less-like mode would be very helpfull to know wtf is happening with my system and why it sudennly stopped working after update.
An option to make everyone happy: let's make both font color and background random. Bonus points for a chance to roll same color for both.
well, I've got my first kernel panic cases last week on my laptop, something battery related. But again, I'am on an Arch-based(😎) system, so the problem went away after a couple of updates.
But still, having a meaningful message would've been nice. Plus, I'd prefer it to be white-on-blue screen, for nostalgic reasons
Yeah, I have faced this when building and troubleshooting what turned out to be nvidia nonsense and one bad core out of 32 on a previous monster build, my main workstation. I set up a serial port (server motherboard) as a tty, dumping dmesg, which I then fed into either a dos machine, or at other times, a trs-80 model 102 to capture the deathknell. For normal running I now keep a second monitor set up with local dmesg -w, htop, s-tui, and my network monitoring. I may have a mental problem lol.
After recently setting a global color scheme for my installation which includes the TTY, I look forward to at some point seeing an _orange_ screen of death. (It's a _very dark_ shade of orange, but the websites I can find seem to call it orange none the less. One website called it close to "Bokara Grey". The exact color is #1b1918.)
so can we turn it off then? i want to see blinking led, and stuff i had on display so i can rescue some information. not some random fullscreen error. thats windows nonsense
I kind of want the option to bake in some information with it. Maybe a kernel kersion, or a distro release name. Just so we aren't left hanging too much when someone inevitability just posts a BSOD taken with thier phone.
Poor Brodie! I haven't seen a Linux kernel panic screen in decades. Sure, my computer has locked up a few times, but I suspect the kernel is happily running, it just can't be accessed. Panic screen color should be a bright, flashing red!
Random color every frame. Compromise means everybody's unhappy, right?
sanest Phoronix comments
I've had kernel panics a few times over the years (like several over a given period) and I think every time I root caused them to being a hardware failure of some sort (e.g. dying ram stick).
Just as an idea in general: Why not resurrect the good old reset button? Getting rid of it was the dumbest idea humanity ever had, right after the invention of nukes.
Why can't there be an orange window of resurrection that makes it possible to see what happened, upon the next reboot? And you can actually cut and paste from it.
in fairness bikeshedding named for arguing about the color of the bikeshed, rather then it's actual construction, location, if a bikeshed is even needed, etc.
Now guru mediation numbers are where it's at.
I read the thumbnail as bikesh-ed, was wondering who Bikesh is, then realised it’s supposed to be bike-shed. Well, I don’t know what bikeshed is either.
Sometimes those devs behave like little kids. "I want blue" - "Nooo, but I want red." - "Green. Period."