Classic OMC Outboard Motor Tune Up #16 Magneto Install and Timing
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- čas přidán 3. 01. 2019
- Mag plate, new points and condensers get installed. Setting the timing with the timing fixture and a miltimeter. My camera timed out before I could test spark.
Johnny is very good at walking you through step by step.
Thanks, you helped me alot.
Great information you have! I have enjoyed all your boat tests over the years. Am putting a 1956 Fastwin back in service. Had the original coils, nothing had ever seemed to have been apart before. In any case, don't know why, Sierra contact set would open the points, OMC part would not, the rubbing block seems wrong, cannot adjust with the screw enough to make things work. What do you think? Glad I had the extra set, alway assumed the Sierra parts were inferior and now they came to the rescue???
Unfortunately I don't have one of those rings and need to replace a coil. I am probably going to use a straightedge and mark the plate and hopefully set the new coil to that spot. Hope it works
Thank you for the videos!
I have a '67 Johnson with the same plate. I have replaced everything as you have shown. One question. Do the coils need an air gap for the flywheel? Mine was rubbing, I pushed the coils in, and am not getting spark. I am guessing it is a plug wire, but thought the coils may need a specific setting. Thank you!
I'm glad you like the videos. The coils do need an air gap. There is a ring that is made to set them properly, but if you use your thumbnail to set the coil lamination heels flush with the machined surface on the mounting bosses directly under the coils. Those machined surfaces locate the ring, so setting the coil heels even woth them is what needs to be done to properly set the air gap. I hope that helps. Thanks for watching!
What screw for the timing???? The video doesn’t show it!
Exactly which setting are you calling the "Beeper" setting?
I’ve got a very nice 67 3hp Evinrude. This one has no inspection hole in the flywheel. Everything under the flywheel looks nice. I don’t have the timing pointer that you have. Is there a manual way to set the points and timing close enough without having the spiffy pointer in hand? I assume I need to have the throttle wide open so the ignition is fully advanced when timing?
Ben, mind if I pick your brain on a few issues in regard to the 1969 33hp skitwin I am working on.?First thing ..Is there anyway possible the mag plate retainer ring on this model would be installed with the bevel side up such as when I found it?I cannot see why anyone would ever even remove one of these and then accidently put in in wrong.I know you stated it should go with the bevel down, and so have a lot of others I asked, but it just seems the block is cut out to fit the flat side down.I did reverse it and the mag plate wont hardly move.Too tight.#2 question I was challenging myself to get spark with what was there on the motor.I was using a homemade spark checker I use on my 1985 and 1988 johnsons electronic ignition motors and it shows a good spark.I used this spark checker on the skitiwin thinking things were still good enough to get spark, but none showed.I reluctantly put new plug wires even though I doubted that was the issue on and still no spark.So I put old nasty plugs on the wires and had spark.I couldn't believe it.Do these points motors not generate the same amount of spark as the electronic ignitions models?#3 Can I time the points on this motor without buying that special gauge?No timing mark on flywheel, just the mag plate.thanks
Excelente video, Sr. JohnnyRude, siempre me he preguntado para que sirve la bolsita con grasa que viene en el kit de puesta a punto?. Muy didactica la forma como explicas todo el proceso de ajuste. Saludos desde Venezuela.
Thank you! If you got a small pouch of grease in your tune-up kit, it is to lubricate the points. A small dab goes in front of the rubbing block that contacts the points cam on each set of points. Most of the OEM kits use an oiler wick, but the grease takes the place of that. Thanks for watching!
Man...."how to" videos too i thought this you tube stuff was going to fall by the way side lol!!! Nice bridge port in the backround
Yup, I have a few how-to's. Thanks for the compliment on the Bridgeport. It is a pretty nice machine. It is a 1994 model with a variable speed head and a 48" table and X & Y axis DRO. It has a small rattle in the head, but the machine rebilder I bought it from deemed it not worth touching the head for what little but it rattle it has.
What setting was the multimeter on??
Hey Jonny, good video, what I'm wondering is, I bought a timing tool so in order to use it with a new set of points, do you just put the points in and not set the Gap with a feeler gauge? And just use the timing tool and your ohm meter,to set them up ,that's the part I'm confused about,if you if you use to timing fixture,there's no need to set the Gap with a feeler gauge correct?
Yes, you are correct. No feeler gauge needed if youre using the timing tool with a buzz box or Ohmmeter. Thanks for watching!
This is just what I needed. I just picked up a beautiful 61' 18hp Fastwin. I'm working on the magneto atm. Also, Do you have any links to install a electric starter?
I do not currently have any videos on installing an electric starter on one if these motors. There are different ways and levels of installation of electric start on these. The factory job, wired with an on-board solenoid, with or without electric choke, etc. Thanks for watching!
Old JohnnyRude
Yes, I'm sure I can find more information if I really want. I think it's pretty straight forward if I find the right parts.
Thank you Ben. Have a good one.
OJR,Sir you lost me.Early, late? I understand setting the timing according to the marks on the flywheel.When do you set the points at .020? Do the points open from a lobe on the crankshaft? Once you have the timing set on one set of points do you have to set the timing on the other set? If you do, then this will get the timing out on the other set.When do you set the points with a feeler gauge? I am now totally lost.
You have an amazingly large belly-button. HAW-HAW! Seriously, this series of yours on classic OMC tune-ups is about the best ever produced. Thank you for going to the trouble of doing this for all of us out here in UTube land. However, just to be safe, you might want to get your belly-button checked out by a doctor..............
Just received my timing tool in the mail. Just to clarify the letter T that's stamped on my tool needs to go on the side of the top coil which is the one that has the spark plug wire that goes to the top spark plug on the motor. Im getting continuity no matter the points touching or not.
Congratulations on the timing tool. The end of the tool stamped T should have the pointer between the marks on the magneto plate at the time the points break. If you are getting continuity whether the points are open of closed, I as assuming you have the coil and condenser wires connected to the points. The wire connections must be removed from the points when using an ohmmeter or test light to test for continuity. If you are in the correct Ohm range the ohmmeter can detect the change in resistance when the points break with the wires connected, but it is much easier to just check continuity woth the wires disconnected. I have a magneto timer with a beeper that allows me to set the points with everything connected. I used to do them all the time with the continuity beeper on my ohmmeter. If you're still getting continuity through open points and the wires are disconnected, I would have to see where your test leads are connected. Hopefully that helps. Thanks for watching!
How precise do you estimate placement of the coils needs to be? I saw elsewhere that your goal is to just flush them up the the flats on the mounting (the shoulder the ring slides over). I used a nice fat screwdriver and flushed them up but it looks like there is some room for angularity. Anyone every seen a real loss of spark by trying it without the ring?
As long as they're flush with the machined shoulders on the plate and don't drag on the inside oftheflywheel, they're good. The ring fits snugly over those machined shoulders and just makes the job a bit quicker. It can certainly be done without the ring, but the ring is a handy tool if you work on these motors regularly. Some aftermarket coils don't fit as well as the OEM ones. Thanks for watching!
When doing this timing procedure does it matter where the throttle is set ? Wouldn't it be best to do it with the mag plate rotated all the way to the full throttle stop ? Or perhaps Idle ? Any insight appreciated.
I prefer to have the image fully advanced. Fully retarded is fine too. The mag plate position does not affect the static timing but it needs to be in the same position from one set of points to the other. Therefore, against one stop or the other is the best way to achieve that. Good question and thanks for watching!
@@oldjohnnyrude8404 Thanks for making this video series. It is enormously helpful in understanding the the overall ignition system works. In this video it appears you set one point with the throttle full retarded and the other point fully advanced. Did I interpret that correctly? I will be doing this myself on my 1971 Johnson 25hp soon and want to be familiar with as much as possible before diving into the project.
Thanks again!
With cranks that do not say top on them do you just find the high point?
Yes, just f8nd the highest point of the cam where the points open the widest. Even if it does say TOP, that is not necessarily the highest point. It is usually close enough though.
Hi mister . the trick when I disassemble the magnetic wanting to control the points. is there a position or any position of the magnetic flywheel can be dismounted ??? thanks ..I talk about 25hp 1975
Sorry I missed your comment when you posted it. I'll do my best to answer your question. There is no special rotational position the flywheel needs to be in for the puller to be able to remove it. Once the flywheel is off, to set the points I always set the throttle position at full throttle. All the way down against the idle stop will also work. As long as the magneto plate is against a stop so it doesn't drift. With the spark plugs removed you can either put the gearcase in gear and use the prop to rotate the crankshaft or put the timing fixture on the crankshaft in place of the flywheel. If using a feeler gauge, put the high spot on the points cam under one of the rubbing blocks on a set of points and set the gap to be a slight drag on a 0.020" feeler gauge then repeat for the other set of points. If using a timing fixture, use an ohmmeter to set the points to just break while the pointer is between the two timing Mark's on the magneto plate. Repeat this for the other set of points by rotating the fixture 180 degrees and repeating the process. Thanks for watching.
I got the point re installed in the correct position on the 20. Got it all buttoned up and tried starting...it now runs worse than it did before. Before it seemed like it was running fine, couldn’t even tell there was no spark on one cylinder, could even pull the plug wire off and no change at all. Now it barely will stay running at all, and when it did for a few minutes it would die when I took either plug wire off. Do you think I need to reset the timing? I don’t have that tool, I gotta go get a set of feeler gauges if I need to reset it.
Also, can I crank down on that bolt when putting the flywheel on? It doesn’t seem like I got it all the way down, even gave a few taps with a hammer, can I be confident it goes all the way down when the bolt stops? I shoulda took notice of how much thread was showing above the bolt originally before I took it apart.
I just found a video that showed the process very closeup and guy did with feeler gauge. I think my open gaps are way to big, look more like 1/8inch... imma go get me a set of feelers in a few minutes here.
@@TheFrogfeeder Thats good set the points woth the feeler gage at 0.020" with the rubbing block on the highest part of the cam. As for the flywheel nut, the flywheel shoukd feel like it bottoms out on the taper before you ever put the nut on. The nut should then be torqued to about 60 ft-lbs to prevent the flywheel from loosening on the taper during running. If the flywheel is visually moving downward as you torque the nut, it sounds like something is getting caught and being forced down with the nut. It shoukd drop on and go pretty much allnthe way home before any torque is applied.
@@oldjohnnyrude8404 so I went thru the feeler gauge procedure, set the gap at .020, and it still didn’t wanna run right. So I checked under the flywheel one last time...lo and behold, I saw I used the old point off the 18 instead of the newer one of the 20, redid all that work and finally got it to run long enough to start adjusting the idle screw, and during one adjustment it’s like the 2nd cylinder finally kicked in and started firing, rpms pickup and smoothed out, motor smoothed out, could definitely notice it happened. Now it seems to be running great again, almost like new, just had it running for 1.5 hours with no problems. :) I also moved the cam plate on the magneto out just a bit so I can throttle back all the way on the handle and throttle cable but it stays running, that should be ok, right? I have my kill switch...
So when doing the timing you can ether do feeler gauge or the timing tool? Or do you haft to do both?
It is either or. The timing tool is the most precise method. A feeler gage can get the same results, but it takes more feel and is a bit more subjective depending on the person doing the work. The timing tool gets it right every time without guesswork and is faster than a feeler gage. Thanks for watching!
My 1976 ,6 hrs evinrude won't /can't get it to idle slow for trolling & top speed is 5.1mph.. carb is clean "looks new" timing light shows it with in the marks.. Any idea how or what i can do to fix these issues.. no i've not taken the flywheel off to check the points
Two things come to mind off the top that could be causing your issues. You say the carb "looks new". Is this outside appearance or have you had it off the motor and apart to clean it? It does not take much of a particle to partially block the main high speed orifice in the bottom of the float bowl to restrict fuel flow and not allow the engine to run at full speed. The orifice plug in the float bowl requires a special tool or a specially modified screwdriver to remove. It can sometimes be effectively cleaned in place and an ultrasonic cleaner is a great way to get it clean.
As for the idle, this could be a result of several factors. The low speed circuit may be a little dirty on the carb, the packing may be leaking some around the low speed needle, the points may also be dirty. You say a timing light shows timing within the marks. Are you using a test light and the hashmark on the flywheel between the two marks on the mag plate to check the timing? Is that what you mean by timing light? The flywheel should come off to inspect, clean and adjust the points.
Have you checked spark on both cylinders while the engine is running to make sure you are firing on both cylinders? If you are not used to these motors, it may be hard for you to tell by ear if the engine is only running on one. If that is the case, it will often not idle well and will be very low on power. You may have a bad condenser also. I hope this helps. Thanks for watching!
Will the timing tool work on a '58 Elgin 5.5hp? Having trouble timing this old outboard.
No, unfortunately the OMC timing tool will not work on the West Bend Elgin. You're pretty much stuck with using a feeler gauge. You can set one set of points with the feeler gauge. Put an Ohmmeter on the mark the point on the cam where the rubbing block contacts at the moment the points break by watching the ohmmeter. Rotate the crankshaft around so the mark on the cam matches the rubbing block on the opposite set of points. Adjust the points so they break at that point in the crankshaft rotation. That will set the timing as close as you can get to 180° apart without a timing tool. Thanks for watching!
You mentioned that Richard White has the Coil ring and the timing tool for sale but I can't find where his Contact information is at, Can you share that with me please?
Certainly! Here is a link to Richard's website. richardsoutboardtools.com/
I was wondering ,it seems you are not concerned about the gap.So if you checked the gap would it be even close to .20?Just from previous experience on old cars with points,the points setting being off could make a motor harder to start.If a motor is alittle hard to start and everything is right with fuel delivery,compression/carb then could advancing or retarding make motor easier to start.thsnkd
@Marge McChesney thanks..I have a good running 1985 25hp that has some sort of slight rattle like you describe,and someone told me it was probably piston slap or rattle as you described and said it is probably from just wear.I had checked for rod slop but it seemed fine.You think that could be timeing?
What is the point of that little fuzzy oil wick thing? I just bought a time up kit for my sea king 40hp and it came with the two little pads and it also came with 2 tiny containers of grease or something
Those are oiler wicks. Only one gets used on the motor. There is a clip under the top cylinder coill to hold it. It oils the points cam on the crank to keep the rubbing blocks on the points from wearing out. Thanks for watching!
@@oldjohnnyrude8404 Ok thank you for the info. Very helpful video. Thanks!
@@peterb7268 You're welcome. Glad you found the video helpful. Thanks for watching!
@@oldjohnnyrude8404 Do you by any chance have a video that shows how to install that wick? I couldn't find any info online
@@peterb7268 i don't remember if that specific thing is in this series I did or not. I can make a quick video in the next day or two of you need that.
hi i have a 1959 Gale Buccaneers 25 hp outboard do you have any video on those or how can i use for reference
As for tune up reference, there is not a lot of difference between what is required on the Buccaneer 25 and this Fastwin 18. I just finished up a 1960 Buccaneer 25, but no videos on the work. Is there anything in particular you are looking for? That is a very cool motor, BTW. Thanks for watching!
I have a problem, when I give it to start it does not move, but I disconnect the spark plugs and it makes it perfect and if I try manually it is very strong it moves in two times not in one as it should be what is your advice
@@CarlosRodriguez-xm3qv Are you saying the electric starter will not crank the engine over with the spark plugs in, but with them out it cranks fine? If so, it sounds like your starter may need a rebuild, or at least clean the commutator, lubricate the bearings, and maybe replace the brushes. Or you could replace the whole starter.
@@oldjohnnyrude8404 thanks
@@CarlosRodriguez-xm3qv you're welcome!👍
What size diameter is the Id of the ring?
I'll have to measure it. I don't have the dimension.
Old JohnnyRude I would much appreciate it! Great informative video btw!
@@mikehassell3752 Mine measures 4.468" I.D. Thank you and thanks for watching!👍
Old JohnnyRude much obliged!
@@mikehassell3752 You're very welcome, Sir!
where can i buy that timming tool
Richardsoutboardtools.com
Richard White makes a d sells these tools. There were OEM factory ones also that turn up from time to time, but Richard does a great job! Thanks for watching!
Has anyone invented a bearing for the old mag. plate. I 'm thinking some sort of nylon insert. Mine is a 1974 25hp. Cheers Phil.
If your motor is a '74 25hp you have the low-tension magneto with the single driver coil and two sets of points under the flywheel and the two high tension ignition coils mounted to the outside on the block. There is / was (NLA) a kit available that replaced the way that pivot bearing on the magneto works. There are still some of those kits around if you check online. I see them on Ebay from time to time. The part number for that kit is 580871. Thanks for watching!
@@oldjohnnyrude8404 .thatyou sir
@@pepegan52 You're welcome. 🙂
I don't know what you were doing, I can only see Motor swaying when you set the points
Sorry it didn't help you. I didn't have anyone to run the camera too. I did the best I could with a tripod and not knowing what exactly was in frame.
Are you from Michigan
Yes, I sure am. Thanks for watching!
@@oldjohnnyrude8404 i have the same motor and it needs some work would like to get it going was my grand fathers can you help me out
@@arrontupper1064 I may be able to help you out. What kind of help do you need? I have 3 motors I'm working on now that are not mine and trying to get my own plus other projects done. I can help with email and videos. If you want me to work on it, we may be able to do that too, but I won't be able to get to it for a while. Where are you located?
Oem points are getting harder to find
Yes, availability of OEM points has been hit or miss lately. They had a run of bad parts too. I heard they are shipping good parts again. I have not heard when we might seen any at suppliers yet. Insure hope they came back. I don't care much for aftermarket ignition parts. Thanks for watching!
Cant see anything, your cam is almost filming the propeller insted the engine...
Could not see timing portion at all.
Yes, unfortunately my camera was set too low while I was adjusting the points. The narration should explain the process ell enough to follow if you're looking at the motor while following along. If something is too unclear l, maybe I can explain it better. Thanks for watching.
Would have been a good video if it wasn't so horribly filmed. Was more like an audio book.
I did my best by myself with crappy equipment. It has helped more people that it has prompted to leave negative comments so I'm still happy with it.
Video is pointless ! cant see witch screw he's turning for timing. And has the throttle totally retarded in the first set of points and fully advanced on the second set .WHF????
There is an offset head screw that fits into a slot in the adjustable side of each set of points. If you were working in one of these magnetos, you would see what I was doing. I did the best I could with my limited camera equipment. I had many requests to make such a video so I tried to make something someone could learn something from. If you do not, that's unfortunate but others have.
The throttle / magneto position doesn't make the slightest difference when setting the static timing. I changed positions on the mag because it made the points adjustment easier to reach.
If you found the video pointless, feel free to not watch it. I believe WTF is the appropriate acronym.