Ultimate Guide to Planeswalkers in Commander l The Command Zone 265 l Magic: the Gathering EDH
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Show Notes:
War of the Spark is a planeswalker paradise! As a result, we expect to see a lot more of them on the battlefield for the foreseeable future. On today’s episode, Jimmy and Josh go over all of the best ways to utilize (and fight against!) this unique card type.
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17:53
The reason I don’t play ugin isn’t because he costs 8 mana. It’s because he’s 80 dollars. Lol
Is he really 80$ now?
Over $100 Canadian right now.
Still pissed that I saw him for $20 during reforged and I didn't pick him up.
@@n0obz27 I feel you man. I traded my moxes for some nonsense 20 yrs ago.
I've made too many MTG financial mistakes... Smh
Loki. The answer to which Avenger is Liliana is Loki. She isn’t on the good guys side. She’s not on the bad guys side. She’s on her own side. Just like Loki.
Imho, Loki totally should get his own movie.
@@hoppeltrottel7484 he is probably Dead. But its Loki so we will see lmao
@hoppeltrottel7484 Well well well. He got more than a movie lol
Why is The Immortal Sun not included in the 'against' list?
It gives its controller just godly effects AND it says players can't activate planeswalkers' loyalty abilities.
Also worth mentioning is that it's colorless, so it fits in EVERY deck!
Really good mention, this deserves more attention. I guess pretty much the only thing against the Sun is that it hurts your own walkers if you run them. But if you, it is just value on a stick.
And yet, it's 30 bucks rising and increasingly harder to find.
@@ryanpeters3812 Fortunately I got my copy when it was only 10$
@@grzegorzswiader6451 I traded my m19 tezzeret who is now around $4 for 6 bulk rares and an immortal sun. On the otherhand, I traded my mox amber (now $10-$15) + $5 for a foil aurelia (now $5) so I'm not that smart.
Seriously... first thing that came to mind
4:07
may that comment be seen high on the list of the comments
heliaxx 🙏🙏
Thank you
heliaxx ty
Angelic Purge does *not* get rid of Planeswalkers, guys! :)
Yes, it does. It gets rid of your own planeswalkers:)
Uhh yeah what the other person said - it totally gets rid of your planeswalkers XD
@@commandcast No it does NOT it either gets rid of artifact, creatures, or enchantments
Source: gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=angelic%20purge
@@thedarkestlight4563 /hugs
@@thedarkestlight4563 It can absolutley get rid of your planeswalker. It has an additional cost of sacrificing a permanent. Planeswalkers are permanents 😁.
C'mon guys, Liliana = Scarlet Witch.
Also Teferi = Dr Strange.
Scarlett witch would be red black and tezzeret would be doc doom
Liliana is Zombie loving Loki without the playful humor
Karn is iron man
I don't they are big comic fans and Scarlett witch in the MCU isn't fleshed out enough for people to know much about her.
@@legoyoda9026 Karn is defninitely Vision. A living, wise automaton and a piece of an all powerful collection of items? Yep.
Deep glow skate is any number of targets not just one.
I've seen people make that mistake more than once...
Superfriends dream card. Insanely, stupidly, unfairly, but beautifully overpowered.
@@joshuajaxshuo5523 that, and situational.
@@busTedOaS truth. And with the re-emergence of proliferate....I can imagine like turn 5 ults all around...if not sooner.
I once used my skate to double two of my planeswalkers and my opponents smokestack, the rest of the table was not happy :p
"Nissa doesn't have unwholesome bits."
Nissa's racist past: - sweats -
Edward Z. I was thinking this same thing lol
I adore that you guys mentioned thief of blood, that card is a pet favorite of mine, but also vampire hex mage. It has the same cheap beater you mentioned and can be reanimated. Finally I gotta saw the hidden gem time of need, a legendary specific tutor in green which I kinda love.
For a long time, one of the most underrated planeswalkers (until a year or two ago) was Liliana of the Dark Realms. She can get any swamp, not just basic swamps. That means snow covered, but also dual lands and shock lands. I convinced my friend who only has one basic swamp in his deck to play with her. With Scroll Rack, you can hide the swamp you fetch out and sculpt your hand as you keep +1ing her and finding the same swamp over and over again, then throwing it back into your deck with the Scroll Rack and drawing new cards. When you have Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, all of your lands become swamps in addition to their other types, which means that no matter which color pips you need fora spell, the rest of your lands are still adding four black to pay for colorless costs. Tap two forests which happen to be swamps and cast Ugin, it is okay.
In 7/10 power level commander decks, you often have 2cmc mana rocks which set you up with 4 mana on turn three while everybody is in development mode and you can drop Liliana quickly before most people have an attacker on board, let alone one strong enough to kill her in one swing, and she doesn't seem scary grabbing swamps for you. Ensuring each land drop and/or exchanging those lands for other cards (looting effects and so forth) is really strong.
What about Star of Extinction in red for dealing with all planeswalkers? Seems good to me.
There are also other red cards that bomb walkers, but this is probably the best one.
Hour of Devastation is good against superfriends as well if you can drop it early enough when the loyalties are low
Can we talk about the thumbnail tho? Like big time props to the editor, made me crack a smile.
45:54 Jimmy: The smart way to play is not to show all your hand.
Telepathy: Im about to end this man's career.
My Meren deck was built to be anti-planeswalker. Garruk's Wake, aether snap, thief of blood, etc. Made in response to the rise of Atraxa decks in my meta.
I believe the BEST new plainswalkers are Narset and Ashiok.
They're the least flashy on the bunch, but hot damn the they have some powerful Stax effects.
Chandra will be going in my Firesong & Sunspeaker deck though.
Ebony Aries I went to the pre release and it was two headed giant and they both ran 3 Ashioks and we got milled out super early
I always used to love Brago, but I’ve always wanted and Esper blink deck. I was so excited when Aminatou got spoiled. It’s now my favorite commander deck. It’s definitely won me some games 😋
16:24 Aminatou's ult is like that because her -1 exiles permanents you own, then returns them under your control, so you can ult, recast her, then steal your stuff back.
I would love to watch a episode of you both showing your decks (similar to what DJ does time to time)! Love the channel! Love the content!
I find most decks in our group run max. 1 or 2 planeswalkers, just one that really fit the theme of the deck - Amonkhet Liliana in a Hapatra deck for the -1/-1 counters, Xenagos in my Animar deck for the Gaea's Cradle effect etc.
Except my Atraxa superfriends deck which has like, 30 of them
I'm surprised Estrid wasn't mentioned as one of the generals. She can also do an infinite combo with chain veil, and can run some pretty mean stax effects.
Also, Nissa being super innocent? I don't think so....
From the lore Nissa didn't want to be a pawn in Liliy's game. Seems fair.
Especially old nissa who was an elf supremacist before she got retconned.
Estrid is pretty insane. My very good games I have 3-4 lands enchanted by turn 5 and just play whatever I want. True convictions and ancestral mask turn 6 on a creature with trample usually wipes at least one player out. (This is why I run Sagu Mauler ;) ). If you really want to, you can Throw in a lab Maniac, some enchantresses, and extra turns.
thank you for doing this it helps out a lot espaiceal when you play mtg but dont know everthing you guys are the best love your game kights and comand zone keep up the great work
But angelic purge doesn't hit planeswalkers?
Hex Parasite is also one of my favorite ways in dealing with planeswalkers. Its super versatile in dealing with other permanents that utilize counters as well, so being able to deal with planeswalkers is a nice happy accident.
I have Tezzeret, master of the bridge in a Sydri list I’m brewing that runs 40-50ish artifacts. And there are ways to mass dump artifacts on the battlefield so his +2 can easily deal 10-20 damage to everyone and heal you up. It’s pretty good
What about saheeli from c18 as a commander?
And you didn't mention the new teferi, ugin, karn, saheeli or Ashiok in the 99, they are quite good.
Sorry mate, but the new Karn is not legal, because he is a wish-card. ;)
@@kagu2188 How is it not legal? If you play cards like this, you just got to have a "wish library" or something like that, 15-20 cards that can be targeted by wish-like effects
@@kagu2188 ummm read new Karn again it says "outside the game OR exile lol
@@stevoyah Hi, if you go for the rules of mtgcommander.net: 15. Abilities which refer to other cards owned outside the game (Wishes, Spawnsire, Research, Ring of Ma'ruf) do not function in Commander unless the optional sideboard rule is in use. If sideboards are used, wishes and similar cards may retrieve sideboard cards. But if you play casual, you can do whatever you want ;)
Empress Galina is my favourite way of dealing with Planeswalkers, lol.
For Liliana, I would say Gamorra (which you did) or Loki.
War of the spark best planeswalkers from list provided: none of the above.
1. NARSET
2. ASHIOK
imo
Also Bolas. Although the two you listed are cEDH playable and Bolas is just high tier.
Bolas seems very "win more" he really doesnt feel good if you dont have a combo with him , he basicly says discard a card to exile or sac a permanent to exile for 5 mana. Or destroy a thing at sorcery speed for 5 mana. I wouldn't play either of those effects in commander. He's way over hyped and has a strict mana requirement for not good effects. Unless your in a commanding position and have a strong board state to support bolas , hes 5 mana bad sorcery bad spells.
lolimmune while I agree he isn’t cEDH playable he’s still high tier. You’re forgetting his static ability and can go infinite. Color fixing isn’t difficult in EDH and it’s negligible. Also planeswalkers can easily sit on the board for a few turns and in grixis colors it’s easy to protect him to ult, but even if you don’t drawing a card and forcing people to exile a card you’re going 4 for 1 in a pod of 4. And doing that over a couple of turns is great value. IMO he won’t see standard or modern play but in casual EDH he’s value.
@@lolimmune You may be right, but I am still building a deck around his passive and -8 xD
@@Twohandrok although he does combo with sexy pirate Jace to exile all boards and hands, which is pretty fun if you get it off.
You guys should really do a game of Oathbreaker! Would be cool to see that format get some publicity.
bpap29 29 what’s oathbreaker
David Hutchinson from my understanding, 60 card singleton with a planeswalker commander, and a ‘signature spell’ instant and sorcery that you can cast if you have your commander out.
Got some from LRR, that's where I discovered the format
Soren 180 is it standard like braw
@@davidhutchinson4043 no, eternal
Josh in a sponsored magic brawl video - "this set has so many interesting planeswalkers!"
Josh in an unsponsored set review - " yeah this one seems bad, yeah this ones pretty meh"
Nice episode. I definitely felt like it was a must watch considering I have a walker deck that I'm constantly trying to improve. I hadn't thought of that enchantment that destroys other creatures of the same color. Even though the creatures I do run are dope it's still worth thinking about in the 99.
Also I'm going to agree with a lot of other comments and wonder why no mention of Narset, Nicol Bolas, and Ashiok? Those guys are nuts in our format.
One of my favorite proliferate spells to use in commander is inexorable tide. Whenever you cast a spell, proliferate
I feel like chandra, flamecaller got slighted. She can draw cards, wipe the board and also apply pressure on the board with hasty 3/1's. I think she is really solid overall.
The best mechanic for superfriends: Cascade.
You get a Mealstrom Wanderer and it usually drops two walkers. Most of the walkers I run produce creatures or removes them.
I also run Enlisted Wurm, Enigma Sphinx, and Etherium-Horn Sorcerer. Also Narset is great, especially when you put a sword on her.
I have a foil Elspeth, Sun's Champion, pulled it myself. She fits in really well into my Helmsmasher deck :)
daretti is a very good planeswalker-commander, actually semi-competetive. can do some nasty stax/land destruction stuff
lord windgrace is cool but his precon was the worst
tezerett the seeker and dack fayden are the best PWs in the 99 because they are good even when you only get 1 activation so they basically are also good as a sorcery (sorin is very annoying too)
Best WAR PWs are narset and ashiok. ashiok is one of the best hate cards out there, narset is mono colour leovold. if you can protect her you should defenitely win. the ones you mentioned are good, but not uite competetive in comparison to them.
No immortal sun as anti PW card?
Tezzeret is an alternate Win con in my Jhoira Weatherlight deck, all the cheap and not ridiculos artifacts that I've been playing since turn four to draw cards now all turn into 5/5s coming at your face
For what it's worth, I like to have like 1 or 2 pw's in each edh deck that I build. Because, as you said correctly, if your opponents don't have answers, they can be in a world of hurt. My favs are Flip- Lily, Saheeli from C18, Daretti from Conspiracy and Farmer Nissa, with an honourable mention of Aminatou
Here's an infinite combo for this Ral planeswalker(28:33): do any spell then copy that spell with a copy spell (i.e.Expansion) then copy that first copy. Then let the first one resolve to become the first copy and then let it copy the first copy again and again and again and again and again and again. In the process, the static ability on Ral will deal damage to a target, in this case any player. At that point you make an infinite copy damage combo.
Warning: They could be negated by counter spells (i.e. Negate, Memory Drain, Mana Drain) so make sure that you have backup copy spells.
I play BU Saheeli artifact commander. Her second ability cheat a lot of power cards as Ugin or Karn, or most eldrazi.
Instead of blue zenith I used temporal cascade to shuffle graveyard back to library and it doesn't exile. You can replay your deck over and over. I used palanchron with tron saph medallion heartstone. Ertai. Stroke of genius. You get the drift.
Great discussion guys :) I think it would be interesting to keep the static abilities but be able to activate the loyal abilities at instant speed BUT have only minus abilities.
Talking about planeswalker, what do you think about Oathbreaker? Would love to see an episode on that.
I literally had to google this. Very Interesting format.
@@stevoyah it's not really. It's a nightmare. So many times I've seem × white Walker + armageddon. Or tezzeret the seeker + x blue spell, it's honestly a cool idea but has severe balancing issues. I'm least excited for new narset + blue wheel spell. Oh goody its leovold in oathbreaker
@@lolimmune The ability to make any spell at all a "commander" is super problematic, I agree.
Thanks for putting out some Commander content this week since the Game Knights was Brawl!
Lord Windgrace is Black Panther. #WakandaForever
When Josh mentioned not knowing what's in a players hand it reminded me of a game where i was at 2 life and had almost no board state except for 2 planeswalkers that were not a threat because another player was starting to go off and everyone was worried about him. My turn rolled around and I played Nicol Bolas Dragon God and then cast an elderspell, sacking my planeswalkers and instantly ulting bolas which won me the game out of nowhere. I honestly did not think I was going to win that game and everyone was just in disbelief
What Pre-Con 2018 would be the best to buy for a beginner such as myself? I’ve heard that Lord Wingrace was one of the weakest while “Adaptive Enchantment” was the best but I dunno so that’s why I ask! Thanks!
I play pw in most of my decks, things like Chandra torch of defiance, Sorin, Liliana either veil or vess, I like them because it keep the game moving, so no one can just hold back, they have to answer.
Never//return is a great alternative to heroes downfall
I play Bedevil, it's broken.
One of the reasons I love Sorin, Lord of Innistrad is that instant emblem. Sure it's not huge, but it's pretty nice to get that emblem right off the bat...
Everybody is missing Honor-worn Shaku. It's a 3 drop that taps for 1. But you can tap a legendary permanent to untap it. You can tap Planeswalkers or legendary enchantments to untap it and add more mana.
Perfectly timed guys. Gonna start building my Atraxa Superfriends any day now.
Should have started building it ages ago mate.
@@krisdaschwab912 k
Possibly the nerdiest comment I'll ever make, but here are some of the parallels I thought of
Liliana: Loki
Chandra: Valkyrie
Ugin: The Ancient One
Teferi: Dr. Strange
Ajani: T'Challa
Saheeli: Shuri
Ral Zarek: Nebula
Dovin: Ebony Maw
Domri: Corvus Glaive
Vraska: Proxima Midnight
Josh and Jimmy is true that you can't interact with emblems but on the other hand if Wizards create a card that destroy emblems they shoot themselves in the foot on the other hand a card that stops emblems abilities for 2 turns the player that creates an emblem from a plainswalker they are left with nothing more or they already win by alot so is a win more thing
I am surprised that there was no mention of Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God. While not very flexible, it is incredibly strong in its niche decks.
9:55 14 years, 2 months, 1 week. Magic debuted on August 5th, 1993. Planeswalkers debuted on October 12th, 2007 with the release of Lorwyn.
Ashiok, narset, Jace, Tezzeret, and Nicol bolas
Zachary Bynx and then you dredge off the draw right?
Samwise Jay Morgenstern I mean new Jace just replaces Lab man in 90% of decks
corrackisdead it does not replace lab man. If lab man is your win con, you play both Jace AND labman.
The only cards in Magic that say "Destroy/Exile target/all planeswalker/s are Casualties of War, Silumgar's Command, Merciless Eviction, and the Elderspell. The first three have alternate modes if there are no walkers on the board. The fact that the only card that exclusively refers to destroying planeswalkers, The Elderspell, was listed as a possibility to put into a deck to deal with planeswalkers kinda undermines the "don't put cards that exclusively deal with planeswalkers into your deck" statement lol.
Emblems are 'for the rest of the game' effects, that you can visually see and refer to. A less narrow Finale of Revelation or Praetor's Counsel.
I'd argue that Saheeli from C18 is the strongest Planeswalker as commander behind Teferi and Jace.
I want a video where u guys talk about what passive abilites planeswalkers should get thst were not in war of the spark . This could also be in a video where u guy talk about cards that u want to comeback to certain format or card ideas u want to come to the game
Teferi's ult means you can also activate the abilities in an opponent's turn, and if I'm correct that means you can + your planeswalkers four times in a round.
32:07 I wonder if The Immortal Sun is going to be mentioned
32:35 I wonder if Jimmy realizes that purge can't target Walker's
I play garruk primal hunter just for its -3 to draw cards equal to my greatest power. Its in a land matters muldrotha (6 power) with black blade reforged and the new multani from dominaria so i can draw a stupid amount of cards off it
Can someone please explain how Terferi and Chain veil go infinite. Why does the second cast of Teferi get extra activation's upon entering the battle field equal to the number of times Chain Veil has been activated?
I actually just built a teysa karlov and wanted another impactful card and pulled a liliana commander of the dreadhorde in it and works very well
i have an atraxa superfriends deck and i love it, even though is not my strongest deck is my favorite!!
My favorite connection to Chandra is the Hulk. Controlled by emotions and when out of control can devastate on a massive scale.
Also, new Sarkhan is AMAZING in dragon tribal. I get to swing out and anybody who wants to crack back at me better be ready for each creature to take a minimum of 5 damage each.
Bolas vs. Thanos is a question of initiative. The first to realize the threat of the other is going to win. If the movie Infinity Gauntlet follows the comic book rules it can't affect alternate realities, and Bolas has the edge in that scenario.
I feel that clockspinning should be on this list, it is very specific, but it is instant speed and with cost reductions it could crush a PW by removing a few counters here and there to block utility and then dumping mana in to destroy the creature. Plus if you're playing superfriends against superfriends you get double utility out of it.
I use them in a support role. if their abilities match my commanders then they are in, also some times for vorthos like my jodah legends deck.
I have a Chandra, Pyrogenius (Kaladesh Planeswalker deck Chandra) hanging out in my Rakdos, Lord of Riots EDH Deck and I only ever use her +2 ability for the repeatable 6 mana discount on creatures (plus 6 red mana if I have Neheb out) and since she isn't too powerful, she isn't too much of a target.
Planeswalkers as I use them mostly involves some form of card advantage because I like my Boros and Chandra's impulsive draw effects, the new Ugin's draw effect, and SOI Nahiri's rummage effect are all solid in my Gisela deck. Beyond that I only really throw in planeswalkers if they have synergies with that specific deck and/or are just really good stuff such as Vivien Reid in my Anafenza deck BC she's just too good not to use. Oh and I also run a commander Saheeli deck where she's basically there to enable stupidly large X spells it's great.
I always use Aminatou's flicker for ramp with artifacts and lands
Used the affiliate link for the second time now, and I will forever
Wow, you guys got crushed on that opening weekend prediction. Lol
I wouldn’t say I like to use planeswalkers as a super friends strategy, but I have put at least 3 or more of them in a deck. I am not using them as the main strategy, I just think having some cards that can repeatedly help, especially if that have powerful or even just specifically useful abilities, will give me an edge when it comes to dealing with every one else.
Deepglow skate is any number of targets. It’s Uber-proliferate.
Captain America-Gideon Iron Man-Jace Chandra-Captain Marvel Liliana-Scarlet Witch Kaya-Black Widow Vivien-Hawkeye Doctor Strange-Teferi Ant Man-Ral Zerek, Garruk-Hulk, Karn-Vision, Nissa-Mantis, Ajani-Black Panther, Vraska-Gamora, Saheeli-Nebula
You forgot ashiok and narset, both are amazing.
i’d say some of the most influential
Narset and Invoke Prejudice is nice if you run nearly no creatures or colorless.
XCodes i agree w all of that lol, i feel like early ramping into either would be really good, because it could take a removal spell from someone’s hand. i also imagine them being played in cEDH lol
XCodes ikr!
Where can I buy that playmat? I’ve tried to find in everywhere, please help!
My newest deck Aminatu+ God-Eternal Kefnet+ Karn's temporal Sundering, or anyother turns card.
I love your podcast guys! Keep it up!
Thanos vs bolas is interesting, on one hand Thanos can't planeswalk so Bolas always has the trump card to just teleport away to another plane where Thanos can't follow him, plus the Infinity Gauntlet won't even work when they change planes. On the other hand, if we get into feats and calcs and scaling them to other characters Thanos might just be able to cover the ground and punch Bolas's head off before he can complete the planeswalk, I believe his physicals are waaaaayyyy beyond what Bolas has shown.
There are a lot of excellent planeswalker hate cards that were not mentioned neither in the video nor in the comments (except Aether Snap):
- Suppression Field
Makes superfriends deck cringe.
- Burning-Tree Shaman
Blood for loyalty.
- Hex Parasite
Noms on counters to grow big.
- Spinal Parasite
Worth considering in Atraxa EDH.
- Aether Snap
Kills planeswalkers and all tokens (I'm looking at you, Elspeth).
- Garruk, Apex Predator
Fight fire with fire.
I don't know of any blue or red cards that hate on planeswalkers, but these colors can just bounce or burn them anyway.
Just call us none patrons by our proper names. Dirty Casuals 😂
Dont forget spark clone came out for aminatou! It can copy her and then you dont lose your combo to creature removal and you can tutor the 0/0 with recruiter of the guard. One downside is it doesnt work with panharmonicon for infinite mana like felidar does, but it does work with chain veil and oath of teferi and way harder to disrupt at instant speed.
You can run new teferi to help this deck out too.
33:27 Angelic Purge, really good to get rid of your own planeswalkers. :P
my favorite play is to steal the planeswalker from the opponent when it's at Emblem level. have them work hard, but you reap the rewards! also like just disallowing the ultimate.
I am buyin one of the Deliver unto evil playmates from Seb McKinnon kickstarter campain. The art is so good.
My favorite walker defense I’ve ever had was when I locked the board down with spreading plague with sphere of safety and several creature wipes in my hand ahhhhhhh good times lol
Hey, what does the affiliate link do exactly? I'm planning on buying a bunch of cards and I want to know exactly what it does, as how much it supports you or anything else. Thanks!
As far as I can tell, as their sponsor. When card kingdom gets information that a lot of people are shopping at their website because of this channel they continue to sponsor it and fund them. I don't know the specifics though, you do not pay extra or any thing when using the affiliate link so it's not like you're directly helping to fund this channel
Nicol Bolas wins for sure. He has his own army, his own godlike powers that van mack the Guantlet, and he is very smart. All thanos has is the Gauntlet but he's not going to snap the moment he starts fighting so he doesn't accidently kill himself using the Guantlet where as Bolas can just go all out on Thanos. There's also the fact where Bolas is just so much bigger then Thanos that it will be hard to do anything against him. Bolas could also just destroy Thanos's mind with his superior mind magic.
what is the app you guys use for magic life points
I think we dont need emblems to be interactable but we need more interaction to stop planeswalker
Here are some suggestions
Black gets more targeted and board wipes that take out planeswalker
Red and green both get more enter the battlefield effects on creatures
Blue gets nothing no i am joking i guess blue could get more "better" bounce i guess?
White could enchantments that intrrect with and tax loyalty abilities for example if a opponent would use ability that would make a planeswalker they control lose loyalty they must first pay 1 mana for each loyalty counter they wish to remove
Weird you guys didn't mention Daretti, he's an absolute powerhouse in EDH.
I personally feel like Nicol Bolas, Drago-God will be pretty solid in commander. His +1 is card draw, -3 not only kills creatures, but also hits planeswalkers, and his static ability he can just use the ability of any other walker on the field! Not to mention the incredibly spicy prospect of utling Bolas, retaining priority, and then overloading Cyclonic Rift...
Nice guess on the avengers box office opening weekend, Jimmy
I use planeswalkers in my Muldrotha deck because it is yet another permanent type I can cast from the yard. Also Jace is a back up win condition to lab man.
I firmly believe that Liliana is the best new planeswalker. In fact, I would argue that she is even better than Elspeth, Sun's Champion. She's very similar to Elspeth, but with less powerful active abilities. But that's a tradeoff for an incredible passive effect. Liliana also has an ultimate that is actually game-winning, unlike Elspeth. But it's really the passive that puts Liliana over Elspeth. There aren't many planeswalkers that can immediately draw you 2 cards, and she can draw you even more if you've got another sac outlet.
What using them together in a orhov deck? Or perhaps abzan as the additional mana ramp and big creature would protect your planeswalkers
Not to mention white black inheritately have great synergy and the added green would be a color that helps u deal with and assist planeswalker for yours and your oppoents not only that but idea of using angels with these 2 and mana ramp seems very intriguing
I think the new Kaya will be a staple for any deck that uses BW. Exile 2 creatures and can target hexproof/shroud things?
I'm surprised you didn't mention Pir when talking about support for planeswalkers. The thing about Pir is, it adds an extra counter even when they use their loyalty abilities. Plus Pir is in green, so you can also add doubling season (and order it so that you get double +3 loyalty counters).