TF2: Post
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2024
- Better out than in, I always say.
My bot video: • TF2: Nobody's Home
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2nd channel: / @zestyalt
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hell: / zesty_jesus
Fempyro art by Jauntyweb: / jauntywebau - Hry
Because many are asking: I have yet to see any definitive evidence that...whatever Valve did....affected idle bots in any way. There has been a significant spike in server activity, meaning more humans are now returning to the game, but I would not trust Steam's player counts right now. Based on my previous work, I strongly doubt that the player count has MORE than doubled as a result of this. Is it more idlers? Some humans? Unsure as of right now, still working on that, and will have more definitive answers in Part 3 of my series on bots.
Edit: yes, fempyro
@@ZestyJesus the idle bot hosters feeling that this might be the end, throwing all their bots in maximum overdrive to make the last bit of money left before getting banned ?
My guess is that the current growth is either mostly or at minimum 50% real players. While people returning due to the bots leaving is a possibility, idlers could be adding more bots to attempt to steal any secret Saxton/gift a pults during this time of cheer.
I can’t watch your videos anymore because you don’t sound zesty
Idle bots are hardest to touch because you cannot take everyone into account and can negatively impact an idle-ing service. This is why those might be almost impossible to ban and may never will.
Now to address one thing from the video: probable reason. Money is not the only reason they responded after all. It's a PR nightmare if they wake up with as you said 'the first game to include cosmetics for micro-transactions' to be killed instantly or not cared for. Whether they like it or not they have to allocate resources to TF2 in order to sustain their credibility. This in a sense is why they should now focus on CS2 for the time being as it is a big problem for that community too!
Enjoy this long comment.
Life is lovely btw, live it
You are in full right to complain and to be pessimstic,
Valve is gonna not do jack shit we should deffintly boycott the summer update no questions just becaused they fixed the game, **for now** dosent mean we should pretend the last few years never happend.
Valve deserves to be boycotted no questions asked.
"Wave defeated Get to an Upgrade Station and prepare for the next wave."
I would like but funni number
I've seen this joke at least 6 times last week.
@@ColonelKlink1965 Start getting 1 Coin for everytime You see this joke so You can became Rich and maybe be able to buy a house inside the U.S.A
Just maybe :(
overrused joke
ok redditor
The cheaters have been privating their accounts to avoid steam bans.
They do know that valve owns steam, right?
People are hunting the accounts to mannually report them. Vale owns steam, but its not omniscient
They're hiding from People, not Valve
@tiagocf1208 you can still easily find and report any private account though.
@@tiagocf1208 He refers to the fact that employees can see profile info even if privated by the user
some of them get community banned which forces it private
Tbh, I kinda hope in a sadistic way that Deadlock gets filled with bots from day 1. It'd be a huge blow to Valve's ego, and signal that they need to fix ALL their games.
Yeah Deadlock is sorta like a double edged sword, assuming the bots arent fixed by the time it releases; if it has counter measures for the bots and tf2 doesnt, what the fuck? If it doesnt then everyone will laugh at them
@@crem444tf2 both is on source 1 and had a shitty linux vac version that allows botting, theres many reasons why botting may not exist but as zesty said, it already has cheaters before it got even released, let alone announced
@@SrMadru It's on Source 1, Has a shitty port, Implemented numerous mechanics that make botting easier (Party Q) Is largely dead from both a development and player-base perspective and the only defense the game has is VACC, an Anti-Cheat that hasn't been updated in over a decade and doesn't even have a true project lead in charge of it anymore.
Better yet, hope nobody buys the game. Boycott it, abstain from purchasing, whatever it needs to be called- don't buy games that make the player into the product.
Or they'll just walk away from it like they did Artifact and Underlords.
I find it rather ironic that everyone compares #fixtf2 to the wow classic drama as a positive example of players getting what they want. since wow classic has funnily enough, become a bot infested shitfest itself ruined by blizzard and only exists to milk wow tokens.
That's because there's little to no blizzard fans left to boycott modern wow classic.
Side note: funny oxymoron.
back then WoW was blizzard's main revenue. Now they have other successful games, plus they have Activision.
While celebrations are in order, Valve not only needs to keep this ball rolling, but also continuously held responsible for keeping the bots out
exactly this. I am hoping this is a turning point and people stop going to bat for Valve every time someone delivers basic criticisms to them.
Not only TF2 but Steam as a whole.
Valve needs to keep the ball rolling or we ought to steam roll their balls
I feel like we won't have to be worried about the ball stopping from rolling. I hear this from tons of tf2 players in comments like these. They are all in the "cautiously optimistic" side where yes it's nice th bots are gone but we gotta be careful.
I am not celebrating yet. After all the years I am well reserved pessimist in valve work.
Chinese sweatshops dedicated entirely to monitoring tf2 cheaters
o7
Thank you for your service
that moment when the Peoples Republic of China Saves tf2
A warehouse full of homeless people who manually ban steam accounts
+100 social credit
Secret Valvitary sweatfortresses are the true anti cheat.
How was this man labeled as controversial a while back? Literally every thought laid here comes fundamentally from critical and logical thinking.
actual fact.
Apparently Zesty made a comment that was taken out of context by people, and unfortunately, it got enough traction to earn him a poor reputation in some circles.
I may be mistaken, but the N-word may have been part of that comment, which was why it caught attention from lots of people to begin with.
It's just mentally ill people going by the slur I probably can't type, so just imagine I did because on any other platform that doesn't automatically deletes comments I definitely would
People don't like critical and logical thinking, they'd rather hold on to status quo than do something radical for once.,
He said "tranny" once and people dont like that he thinks TF2 should be a 100% casual game. They also dont like that he criticises workshop creators
They hated him, because we was telling them the ugly truth right to their face
One thing i can appreicate about zesty is his honesty even if its something people dont wanna hear
@@NotSnakHere is the problem. The money that TF2 bring, is probably wasn't even enough to run 1 month of official server. It seems like the tf2 community, is entitled little prick for wanting so much more.
Let them celebrate. Why are you so hostile to people who celebrate?
@@NotSnakOne of his only good qualities ngl, for the most part
Tf2 players when they are told to not waste money to fix their favorite game: 😟😭
A true boycot would include people not playing the game at all and moving on to something else but these addicts can't do that..
@@panthekirb7561 that's stupid, the servers take money to run, people playing on the servers, but not giving valve a dime, increases their net loss
But...there's still plenty of people that are not willing to spend money on the game yet
@@iizepic9788 Its a gain for the playerbase though
"But how am i going to feed my gambling addiction now?"
I never get how hard it is for people to just....not spend money. Dont buy hats, dont buy keys, dont buy MvM tickets, just stop spending money. Stop gambling, no matter how small the impact may seem to you.
yeah seriously, if theyre unable to then theyre just proving theyre addicted and ESPPECIALLY need to stop
It’s a tale as old as time. People demand change, but they themselves don’t want to change. People complain about shitty games but still go out and buy them every year anyway.
This doesn't actually revolve around money for me, but it does involve gambling.
I was a huge overwatch player for the longest time, but I quit because at some point I stopped playing to play the game, or even be a comp player, but rather to open up loot boxes to get the skins. When I realized that I had to force myself to stop playing the game, which was hard to do since there was still enjoyment in it for me
Gambling is mental illness, people who become gambling addicts are victims of the machines created and designed to trap them.
A person who has become a gambling addict at certain point no longer gambles for the money but for the motion of gambling itself.
We label these people as whales, but they are victims of the people who profit from them.
Highly recommend watching this video if you want to learn more: m.czcams.com/video/jQIHqkudgNY/video.html
is that when you decided to conquer 86 tribes?
Tbh, if the 'fast' response was solely to FixTF, it would be somehow even worse, would mean that they had the gun loaded and all cards on the table and decided to turn a blind eye until the animal started screaming
I’ve thought about this before
I genuinely believe they started working on a solution to the bot problem but ended up putting it on the indefinite backburner until fixtf2, when they realized that they really couldn't just shut up the tf2 playerbase with wacky gamemodes and new cases full of community shit that they never even made.
It doesn't make sense since with savetf2 they took ~4 weeks to respond. Meaning that they could've fix it 2 years ago. Probably at this time they thought:"maybe we should do something?"
>shitty catgirls dancing around
>implying TF2 and CS:GO players wouldn't(don't) lap that up
There is an epidemic of weebs in this scene and nobody is talking about it
The amount of anime girls of questionable age as pfps with male voices in vc is way too damn high.
@@TheSuperappelflap it always have been
bro you dont even have to look outside of this video he's got a booby pyro mod
@@TheSuperappelflap gamers and weebs go hand in hand that’s how it has always been
TLDR: don't give in to the shiny keys this summer until we're certain Valve is here to stay on the treadmill.
But how will we know this? What will be the thing that shows they will stay on the treadmill?
@@thatguythere6161valve being on a treadmill
Sadly
Itll be like keyless crates in halloween
@@thatguythere6161
A long-standing and committed effort to upkeeping the game; simple as that.
You do realise that the talk when John McDonald said that line, he also said they Valve does do treadmill work and that it's important work but that the issue is cheaters constantly evolve and you're in a constant arms race with them, right?
Toxic positivity ruined tf2 as much as the bots.
Story as old as time. Happens to every good game (except for bot part, obviously)
happened to minecraft
Ah yes, when saying anything remotely negative and critiquing the game is "doom posting", I don't understand why these people defend Valve with their lifes like they're getting paid for it
What happened to minecraft? Toxic positivity?
But half of community is always talking about mojang's fails...
@@afro4059
@@c0smic959 They defend Multimillion Dollar Company which can't do basic things more fiercely than their loved ones lol
The guy doing no work and not showing up at the office for weeks at a time actually "did work" today.
Good news? Yes
Time for a promotion? No
good one
This video is like "When a man who understands business tells everybody exactly how to act in the most effective way like it's common sense or at least it should be yet somehow it's not."
well i mean he is still correct its just we were clueless.
Y’all just remember that FixTF2 isn’t over until we get a permanent solution
Yeah, we're not gonna repeat the cycle again now, hope the tf2 community is smart enough to understand
right, a permanent solution, which is what exactly?
@@Helperbot-2000 hmm, maybe keeping the cheating bots out of the game? (oh no, treadmill work)
@@jockin learn to read please, i asked what the solution was, not the end goal that solution is supposed to fix.
oh no, you dont understand what they mean when they say treadmill work, what a fucking surrise
@@Helperbot-2000 proper anti-cheat? Valve actually maintaining the game regularly so that this bot crisis doesn't spiral up again?
valve employees, when they need to wipe their ass (it's treadmill work):
oh shit hi chara
Valve employees when William Edward Staub presents them with his latest invention in 1968
All employees at Valve found passed away after one of them discovered Breathing was 'Treadmill Work'
"Why should I breathe if, in a few seconds, I will just have to do that again?"
-Valve Employee
I'd wipe my ass on a treadmill, like a sanding machine
wipe their bussies
I'm genuinely stunned people really think that calling a boycott is "too hard". Like, how? How is it hard to just. Not spend money?
Lets go gambling!
I've spent 0$ on TF2 in the 10 years that I've played the game.
it's called a gambling addiction
People don't like giving up the things they enjoy.
An addiction to spending money
Why are people still buying keys at all? Scream Fortress absolutely loads you down with cosmetics if you do the contracts.
Fair point.
for cosmetics without halloween restriction and cosmetics that doesn't scream "halloween" nor "Christmas"
It feels so fucking refreshing to be able to join casual and play for hours again without having to reque.
Had a blast last night man. So fucking good.
Most fun I’ve had in ages
Enjoy it while it lasts, it wont be like that forever.
I just had a great match kritz gambling with a god tier random heavy, no bots and infinite fun
Enjoy it while you can, the bots are already back in European Servers.
@@gilgameshthetreasurehunter2750 they're already back in Europue.
0:33 Damn, Can't believe Tf2 made more than "8 dollars" in a year for valve.
It could be, maybe
possibly even nine dollars
this might be a far stretch, but it could even be ten dollars
Maybe 10 if we’re getting crazy
@@soygacho7945 Not that far of a stretch compared to what the conspiracies are saying about the whopping 11th dollar TF2 made for valve...
it was obviously a typo, the lowest amount they could've made was probably eleventeen dollars at the minimum, but thats just a guess
Would be ironic if the TF2 community would throw themselfes onto that boycott idea when some psydo famous TF2 CZcamsrs (not related to Zesty) calls for it despite being absolute c*nts to normal people that were suggesting that for years. Imagine daring to utter ideas that aren't mainstream on the TF2 subreddit and then getting downvoted to oblivion
See here's the problem with your complaint... We're normal people. Why do we care about downvotes? Why are we even on Reddit to begin with when the corp that owns reddit is even more corrupt and evil than Valve?
@@koalabro6118 Ironic writing that on CZcams, now innit?
I love the way he says: "stop buying the *fucking* keys"
The gambling addicts aren't going to stop buying 😢
Plenty of people already have. Obviously it's not everyone but no shit it's not everyone. People are still not spending money on the game, myself included
The whales are the problem pray for them
the movement was started by an mvm gambling addict who never brought up boycotting so he could keep gambling
Doesnt mean you stop yourself.
The smallest profit at the wrong time can make all the difference
**COUGH** **COUGH** wheezy...
14:46 That demo shield charging, missing the exit route, realizing, emoting right after and dying not a second later has just unlocked my long repressed childhood memories
"You don't ban immediately. You catch it, track the accounts, and you do mass bannings in waves. Don't give them time to adapt."
-PirateSoftware, Paraphrased
It feels like we did almost everything right this time. Besides the stupid ass opposition to boycotting, we've done a lot right in pushing for change, and it's more on Valve now than ever to address the issue.
That's the thing, it just "feels" like it.
We didn't accomplish much
No long-term fix plans have been announced.
That's what we want.
I has always been on valve
Weezy was against the idea of a monetary boycott until yesterday.
The biggest mistake of this shit was giving the movement face leaders instead of just hurting valve where it really matters.
Like titanfall 2 or apex didnt need people or ecelebs to back it up
@@bensadfleck9972Titanfall fans aleady had a workaround of their own for the game, and the devs responded once the Titanfall problem bled over to Apex.
SaveTF2 was all bark, no bite. Let FixTF2 be all bark and bite, if we want it to work.
LOL
What the dog doin
More like SaveTF2 was looking at Valve with puppy eyes
@@orangejuice8279 as is fixtf2
@@pootispiker2866 if SaveTF2 is looking at Valve with puppy eyes, FixTF2 is an extremely drawn out growl
on an unrelated note the demoman giving up at 14:48 is the funniest thing i've seen all day
for real i've been laughing at that for about 10 minutes now lmao
I love doing that lmao, everytime I know I’m not making it out alive I gotta hit one last taunt
You obviously won't say this but I honestly believe you, yourself, had a lot of impact in the new attitude that we see coming from the TF2 "community". It took someone with a decent following to keep it real and tell the toxic positivity bullshit to fuck off in order for a decent part of us to finally understand that shit like that wasn't getting us anywhere.
I mean they were the one who cut us off from the copium of the twitter post and made us aware tf2 was dying
The toxic positivity is still there mind you, kinda prevalent on twitter and, ughhh... Reddit. But otherwise it's been getting better. I mean, around winter update last time, a workshop creator tried to falsely accuse Zesty of being a pdf file, (because Zesty at some point played a gacha game) I confronted the bozo in dm's and he basically said that he does not even truly believe what he says and thinks it's "funny". Funny to accuse a real human being with a following of people who might be stupid enough to believe you that their favorite creator is a pdf file. Whoever was the person that had a quote that went like: "People are getting too comfortable with shitting on others and not getting punched for it" was a prophet, because this anonymity shit only keeps getting worse
im glad zesty isnt taking credit for anything because the reason savetf2 and fixtf2 are a mess is because of the focus on youtubers and that would still end up the case if he decided to become leader or something
I don't understand the mindset that the first fixtf2 movement didn't work. It got a response out of Valve and a huge number of changes that greatly helped the bot issue. It didnt FIX the game, but it enacted Valve to do something.
Once again, the community made a big movement and once again Valve did something. We just have to wait and see if they'll continue to work on preventative measures. Why is everyone acting like this was a complete and total failure? Why is everyone acting like its our fault for not "protesting correctly" and harboring "false positivity?"
The only thing this video is doing is fueling community infighting. Sure, boycotting will help push the message that we want change, but I think already pretty fucking clear to Valve that we want change.
TL;DR, "False positivity" isn't the problem. Its the bots that are the problem. We don't need to turn on eachother.
@tranquil3727 It enacted valve to pull a PR move and slap a bandaid, ban a couple cheaters, and continue the status quo because "big wholesome Volvo cares, guys! They want TF2 fixed as much as we do, just gotta be wholesome 100 chungus uwu". The reason the old SaveTF2 didn't work was because we (until the recent ban waves) were STILL suffering the same issues that we have been since Jungle Inferno dropped (really even before Jungle Inferno, valve servers had spinbots from day one of Meet your Match)
I'll never forgive the tf2 community for gaslighting me into thinking you were a scumbag.
Please keep up the good work.
they’ll keep trying too, with their “weapon” being “lul hes a biggot!”
Mah heckin transphobia
@@darthgamer9861
as someone who's not up-to-date anymore on the community, why do people accuse him of being a bigot? i've been curious as to why people say he's a bigot for a while now - i dont expect a whole summary, but i'd like to be directed to a specific post or something that can clear things up :D
@@whilemycookiegentlycrumblztoo be honest I’m not entirely up to date on the details myself as I tend to only follow people on youtube rather than Twitter.
I have been convinced he was toxic for "attacking" workshop creators. Only to find out it was just fair constructive criticism. He is in his right to express his dislike for certain items
Valve: Puts in a tiny amount of effort to temporarily make a dent in the bot problem TWICE
Fans: OMG VALVE THANK YOU! OH WE LOVE YOU YOU'RE THE BEST DEVS EVER!
Yeah, no wonder they neglected TF2 for so long. Look who enabled them.
It's a fucking 17 year old game my dude.....shit they coulda just dropped it like other companies do.
Like holy shit I do not envy having to delve into that spaghetti, fuck that.
@@OfLanceTheLonginusLeave the multibillion dollar company alone...‼️‼️‼️‼️
@@iv0453
“Don’t be mean against my 17 year old game :((((“
@@iv0453
17 year old code that no one wants to touch with a 10 ft pole
@@OfLanceTheLonginusa game being old and full of old code is no excuse for not maintaining it in the slightest stop defending valve and their poor actions
People just refuse to accept the valve that they once knew is dead.
they can join the club I’ve been occupying since say, 2018
I'll be honest. This fixtf2 movement kind of died down. Sure valve banned a couple thousand bots but it just isn't enough. This will most likely go no where and I just hope that the youtubers that said they were going to print out all of the petitions and hand them to valve in person are going to do that and not bluff.
Valve does need more toilet paper, sure.
That printed petition will just be more trash for the custodians to throw away lmao
We might as well try.
They're gonna try every single method except not playing the game at all
This was always going to be the reality of the situation though. No matter how hard we protest, we cant really force valve into "working harder." All we can do is make our voices heard and hope Valve is able to find a solution.
I don't really think its a matter of us not protesting loud enough or hard enough yknow?
Valve having bots in unreleased game is just crazy 😭
Cheats, not bots
It's a closed beta
@@sufficient4834 alpha*
@@sufficient4834 it's closed pre alpha wdym
Here's a theory that I have:
Shork has participated in both movements. Additionally, you clearly showed that Shork was looking for a peaceful protest and to not boycott Valve during the #SaveTF2.
Also, Shork is mostly known for his videos with the VAs of TF2. It's his one trick pony.
Because the VAs distance themselves from the movements to get on the good side of Valve and keep working for them, he doesn't want to actually protest, because it would hurt his bottom line.
Add in the fact that he is one of the most vocal people regarding TF2, him branding himself as a wholesome 420 chungus guy and it's pretty easy to see why the first movement failed. He's greedy. He doesn't care about the game as much as he claims to and probably knows all of this.
I'm not doubting that he cares about fixing the game. It's that he cares about his paycheck more.
What?
@@comando1762 Essentially what the commenter is saying is that ShorK commonly works with TF2's voice actors who don't participate in the movements, so his involvement in something that could lose Valve money would also hurt his channel.
Medic VC and Sniper VC indeed made posts about FixTF2 supporting it and talking about bot crisis, Spy/Pyro VC reposted and commented Shork's post about FixTF2 and Heavy/Demoman VC wasn't active on twitter from may 17 with means your theory pretty much falls to dust. Also Weezy was mainly against boycotting and I don't see him working with TF2 VAs, Shork is not even the main leader he is just one of them.
@@Anakondrai from what I've seen from the first movement, shork was definitely very vocal on reddit, making sure he gets his point across that this is a peaceful protest. He is also pretty active on twitter, which is where a large chunk of the community resides. Also, Robin's tweets are saying that he wants the game to be fixed and not calling out Valve's shitty actions against their players, which is like the main point of the #FixTF2 movement. To make valve feel ashamed that they have left this game to rot, which will hopefully force them to remove the bots. but you don't see the VAs calling Valve greedy cunts. I severely doubt that Valve would have severed any sort of contract due to a fucking tweet saying that a VA loves TF2. But if the VAs started shit talking Valve about their neglect across all their games, then there's a case to be made about slander of their image and a potential termination of a contract. Lastly, Weezy's content is literally him playing MVM, which may I remind you requires money to play and have a chance to win prizes, which is glorified gambling, and he hasn't said that he plays Mann Up for footage. Makes sense that the gambling addict doesn't want to boycott. Also, mentioning Weezy in general doesn't help your case, since he said in his debate with Zesty that we could use the VAs of the game as tethers, which is very manipulative language if you ask me.
but the voice actors, or at least the most active ones like Robin Atkin and John Patrick, did participate in the movement though.
Zesty threw a Gas Passer onto the fire, what we actually needed
the fact that the gas passer extinguishes teammates lmao
@@Dedmos2322what's more funny is that it won't combo with the Annihilator
@@ashleysony7943 i love tf2 logic
@@Dedmos2322 beautiful ngl
4:57 fempyro
AY YOO
Pyrocynical back at it again
did you see the cut off prevention in the last seconds
@@PinkIceCreamTruck every youtuber does that when they die
Boobas
I'm actually confused why there hasn't been anything like #fixTF2 in the CS community. As you said, the same thing that happened to TF2 is happening to CS2 too.
The CS community is barely a community tbh. I think that's why
@sorrydudebros True, but not because there isn't comraderie, but because there's so many players that any attempt at an organization would only be done by like 2% of users.
bro they dont need to start it since its valve favorite child there has been less cheater and spinbotting
It's too early for that. While the game is in a bad state it's not nearly as bad as tf2's neglect. Give it like 2 or 3 years and we might see something happen.
iirc I remember seeing a few videos on a potential start to one
13:51 not “released” the games ISNT EVEN ANNOUNCED YET
Glad you mentioned the Weezy video, a lot of his points felt off, and the fact he straight up said "Trying to boycott tf2 financially wouldnt work so dont do that"
Like, ??? That is the only way to boycott a game, companies dont care what people say on twitter if it dosnt effect their revenue
ostracizing does help though, especially when you can see Valve's bad consumer treatment across their other games - it is not a habit you should want to see. I agree it is not the main point of a boycott.
0:34 8$ to 15 million $ is a pretty wide range
True , still hella money for a game this old
That's still good for an older game
You all didn't get the joke, I believe
@@LatiosGigetto 8 dollars. and don't forget the quarter!
@@Thomas_Angelo you sir are a fish
4:57 Holy moly, that caught me off guard lmao
Forgot to say it earlier but my guess for the reason rolled the anti-cheat this early, was not only for getting into the community's good graces again for doing their job, but probably due to workslopper pressure. Valve isn't only one with a horse in this race, if bringing attention to workshop items being added to the game is anything to go by, Emporiumsis wouldn't be very enthusiastic about not making bank as they would've prior to your streams, particularly under the threat of a boycott, so pleading to Eric Smith to disinfect a gushing wound be in their best interests to keep leeching off of this game.
Boobs jumpscare
bro got flashbanged
me too lmao
I thought I was watching Zesty not Pyrocynical 🤔
"wiping Valve's ass for them"
*showing FemPyro ass*
Finally someone who's smart to say the truth instead of opinions that a company is great for finally acknowledging their child they left untill they were 18. Also thank you for not being a broken record like some other "ytber" I know. It's so relaxing to hear the truth for once.
Your comment said so much, and so little at the same time
The TLDR: People like Weezy are too addicted to the market of TF2 to do the thing that NEEDS doing in order to force valve's hand.
I won't be surprised if the bots return, so I still insist on boycotting future updates.
As someone who has not paid a single dime on TF2 for a while now, I can assure you that it's really not that difficult of a task.
It's so easy, a Soldier player can do it.
Idk man soldier mains are known to have ridiculous spending habits on this game
*Laughs in broke*
I personally believe that it doesn’t matter how old the game is, doesn’t matter if it does or does not make them a ton of money. The fact that there is still a store and CAN make money should have them legally required to maintain it. If you don’t want to, you must remove any and all ways to make money off that product
The big problem with the movement is that it was organized by people whose career revolves around the game's continued existence... Had it been more "anonymously pushed", chances are that a commercial boycott could have been on the table from day one.
VALVe when they realize fixing the bot problem raises the income gained by TF2:
"Why not boycott?" He says "Because we have everything to win, and Valve has everything to loose" I say.
No more keys, no more hats, the new inclusions are ugly anyways...
valve has nothin to lose from it lol, WE have everything to lose, tf2 makes a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction as much as anything else they own, and at worst they could just shut down all support for the game. it doesnt incentivice them to do anything
@@Helperbot-2000 Friend, millions upon millions of dollars is STILL millions upon millions, even if it may be less than billions. Don't lose the forest for the trees; Yes, Valve rakes in literally 13 billion USD anually. Yes, TF2 rakes in literally 0.1% of that at most.
But at the end of the day, $8-15million is still $8-15 million.
The amount of money isn't the point. Even if it's just a drop in the bucket, the more people that stop giving Valve money for a service that barely works, the better. Yes, we've seen fixes recently, but don't let the bare minimum placate you.
@@JagEterCoola ... Millions? Since when is it millions?
@@Helperbot-2000 They cant shut down support for the game. It has community servers. If Valve try to shut it down, worst they can do is shut down casual and take down the master server (through which your computer downloads the list of community servers).
Then someone will put up a new one that Valve doesnt control. People have done that for far less popular games once the publisher shut down the servers.
And if they take the game off Steam, well, there are other ways to procure software on the internet...
I haven't spent money since the start of fixtf2
Valve is literally stuck with TF2, whether they like it or not.
We are a tumor, so let's be a tumor.
Valve must be thinking to themselves after "fixing" the game: "Greed is good. Have a bonus."
This is literally the equivalent of them hosting an MvM server, constantly failing the first wave, then skipping to wave 3. There is no way the problem is fixed for good, not yet.
Return to the upgrade station before they return.
Imo valve is currently using tf2 as a guinea pig to test new anticheat systems for later use in CS2 and eventually deadlocked.
Also you're spot on that valve shouldn't be thanked or praised for dealing with a problem that should've been dealt with _half a decade_ ago.
agreed. if this becomes consistent, only then will I offer a slow clap to Valve because they should have taken care of this when the bots started appearing in 2018.
Makes sense, valve has been known to use TF2 as a guinea pig to test new shit before they abandoned it
There is no anticheat... its just manual hwid bans by valvvo
Damn never thought of that. Also I believe that now we should encourage valve to more and more. Like: "yeah damn that's good, but it's not enough and you can do much better."
Corporate politics blow my mind when companies refuse to do the bare minimum to do right by the loyal customers they keep raking in cartoonish piles of cash from.
isn't that what happened last time we did this? we got the bots out but only for a short time until they find another exploit and valves got back to sleep.
i dont see what is different
Yes... its the same thing... its all just manual hwid bans by valve
Actually, no.
Nothing happened the last time during SaveTF2.
People saw valve said "Well do something", and went cool, lets not push this further. And so nothing happened until now.
he got fempyro installed
W
My fuarking hero
A WOMAN?
As a gentleman would
erm what the based
4:58 ZestyCynical
SlopJesus
It's so fucking funny to listen to you, you are so REAL, it's amazing how good arguments you make. It's incredibly real
the realest
The whole "Valve will just shut down TF2 if it stops making money" also doesn't make much sense from a general PR perspective; it would look really bad on Valve's part if they just up and shut down one of the most iconic and influential multiplayer games of all time, just because it stopped being profitable...
Zesty was doom pilled and I don't blame him, I was too.
5 years of neglect tends to do that
Remember that Valve is the original lootbox company. They're a terrible, awful company that is responsible for the plague of microtransactions and gambling lootboxes that plague video games today.
Do not give them even a slight benefit of the doubt. Theyre on the same level as EA.
Exactly
The fact that they literally had their own "csgo" update with the contracts and weapon skins, introducing an already existing feature in the game (strange weapons but now it's stat clock or whatever) and nobody saw this as a money-grabbing scam is beyond me.
It blows my mind that most people seemingly don't realize this about Valve. They popularized loot boxes and microtransactions, they hold a monopoly on selling PC games, they make millions per year from getting kids addicted to gambling, they've basically abandoned all of their game series, and yet people still treat them as "one of the good ones" of video game companies?
They deserve no leniency here. I'm glad that big channels like this are talking about the problems with their games, and what needs to be done to deal with them.
On the game front? I only hear good things about Valve's earlier games, and rarely hear about anything good about their newer games. On the platform front?
Valve is probably one of the most decent platforms for getting games, and definitely the most decent major platform for getting games. (Even more so for computer games)
Nintendo keeps their games to themselves and their online service is apparently awful.
Xbox is either dead or dying.
PlayStation is owned by Sony, and security is a problem.
I don't know what's going on with Epic Games, but they're owned by what looks to be a much greedier company than Valve. Otherwise it seems that they would normally be a decent competitor.
Valve honestly runs steam pretty well on the consumer's end, and while I think that their cut from developers is a little high they definitely know how to keep their consumers at least somewhat happy.
Plus extra features like the steam workshop (which I don't think I've seen any company even try to do besides Bethesda) and frequent sales make them better than their popular peers.
Key word: popular
There's probably a lot of smaller game hosting websites out there which could become real competitors to steam if they got popular and funded enough... But right now they aren't popular or funded. Honestly if one of them got big enough to rival steam then I think it would be positive for both websites due to them both having to innovate to better the other.
Oh and on the Valve gaming stuff, I'd say they've become lazy and stagnant on that part, and are basically coasting off of the success of their website.
But by no means is Valve THE original lootbox company. Loot boxes had been in western audiences for about a year before Valve introduced them to TF2. EA actually beat them to the punch with adding loot boxes to FIFA 09. Eastern audiences had "loot boxes" (they weren't called loot boxes, but were basically the same thing) way before the west too (MapleStory to name one game that had them).
This isn't to say that Valve isn't one of the first western companies to add loot boxes to their games, but they definitely aren't the original.
I think comparing Valve to EA is in bad faith, though. If you want a specific weapon or item then you can just buy it off of the marketplace without ever engaging in loot boxes (unless if it's a rare item (which are cosmetics) in which case you'll have to sell your house and all of your body parts to be able to afford it). With EA you're likely going to HAVE to engage with whatever loot box mechanics they stuffed into their games to either be on par or to actually be able to play the game. EA will nickel and dime you every step along their games, while Valve doesn't force you to spend that much extra money unless if you want to.
TL;DR Valve's modern games suck but people like them for their website. Also comparing them to EA either oversells how greedy valve is or undersells how greedy EA is.
its just cuz they played asian gambling games
Not gonna lie. the radio silence I get in hindsight. You don't want people knowing you're going to bomb em
The CS2 example might actually be worse because it's not really a F2P game. Anyone with any real time in it almost certainly has the $15 premium upgrade, and if that becomes unreliable there's a much stronger motive for an explosion in Valve's face
You were always right, truth is just too bitter.
People be like: "wow thank you valve for wiping your a**"
Me: "did you wash your hands too"
Valve:
11:27 this argument is so underestimated. It's not just Valves games, it would be the entire industry going to hell. The market shock could legit cause a Video game crash
idk, I would say yes if it happened to fortnite but tf2 doesn't have that much influence. Also if they keep servers up for l4d, they won't shut down a game that makes money (whatever the amount is)
I think this is a true enough statement. I've been trying to educate myself recently on business practices, and I've just had a different way of looking at things as of late. I believe, IF, somehow, TF2 had to be shut down, it would create an absurd domino effect.
The first thing I see happening is lawsuits. While these suits may not do a whole lot in terms of being valid or earning funds to players, what it does is set a precedent; win or lose, digital assets mean nothing in the long run. In time, I'd imagine companies will begin to see that microtransactions have ultimately resulted in only short-term profits, so, almost as a knee-jerk reaction, press about in-game items will be rampant. Investors are likely to panic, and a market crash would happen in the video game industry.
As a result of this, people would perhaps look at a grander scale: if my digital items in a game aren't real, how much of my other downloads do I actually own? In fact, the sentiment around digital downloads of movies and shows, books, etc. already seems to have acquired this stigma about it. (I'm mainly referring to a bit of info about how, if Steam were to go offline or shut down, a large portion of most players' libraries goes with it. While this is unlikely right now, imagine TF2 shuts down and the games market goes with it. Why would Steam be kept around?) The point with this is that it would affect the technology market at that rate.
Of course, this is all hypothetical, heresay, imagined scenarios, but who's to say that this wouldn't happen? In this same vein, imagine if consumers won their hypothetical lawsuits against Valve. This would trigger, as Zesty put it, a seismic shock of negative sentiment toward the digital market. And, again, this would in time bleed into the tech market as a whole. Thinking about this on such a scale really makes me wonder, however. How bad could something like this truly get?
Obviously, I'm spitballing arguments, making up scenarios, and, overall, not really educated on this. But if I, a random dude across the internet, with only a small bit of knowhow and some thinking skills, am able to conjure up this sort of idea behind what would to a near-17-year-old game, where ~70% of its player count is botted activity, it really puts it into perspective; this really could be a huge event, fixTF2 that is. Counter-Strike could have had this happen some years down the line. Imagine the shockwaves then.
If there's one bit I want a reader to take from this, it's this: Team Fortress 2, if it were to be treated like a bomb, seems to be ticking. Valve aren't demolitions experts, either. If this "bomb" were to blow, the metaphorical fallout could affect technology as a whole.
Of course, I'm being dramatic. TF2 is funny 2007 hat game. But, at the very least, consider what could happen from treating a digital asset like it has value beyond the binary that makes it up.
Anyway, I'm done, thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
We did it Patrick we saved tf2
🔥🔥🔥
Yep we sure did.
Not yet.
*hundreds of servers burning in the background*
the match havent ended yet keep fighting
Valve is playing 4D chess with the bot fix. They really don’t want a boycott of TF2. They knew it would be better in the long run for them to throw some work at TF2 than rock the boat on any micro economy. They’re good.
you shouldn't celebrate an alcoholic going sober because "that's expected"
what?
@@FR0zE_N he said that people shouldn't praise valve for banning bots and cheaters because "that's expected" of them
@@carcinoGetenicist Well... yeah. It's their job to maintain the game that people are still actively playing and spending money on, not just for the enjoyment of players, but that it ensures they keep spending money which will make Valve happy. Neglecting it to the point it's unplayable isn't good for players, and it's worse for Valve because that will make them question any and all future releases, like "Deadlock".
the same way you shouldnt celebrate a gambler leaving the casino
You've made good points all around. Should be worth noting that virtually every multiplayer-centric game that relies on live service is guilty of trying to maintain the game "below the bare minimum" at least until it hurts their bottom line. Seen it often end in said company going under because they don't see the danger until it is too late to save their game.
One point you made that's been bothering me with so many bloody videos regarding TF2 is the whole live service thing. I do find it both amusing and incredibly disturbing how many people forget or just plain don't know that Team Fortress 2, on launch, had NO matchmaking OR Valve-operated servers. It was all player-owned and run servers. That got trashed into the shadow realm when the stupid "Meet Your Match" update came out and community servers, just like Detroit, never recovered from the blow.
It is very disturbing how so many players today have been groomed over the decades by game publishers into thinking that every single multiplayer-centered game CANNOT operate without live service. On a side note, the only money I ever spent on TF2 was to buy the Orange Box back when TF2 first came out and that's all I will ever care to spend for the game.
Side note 2, I'll see if this comment gets removed by youtube because I said the "G" word.
Is this the power of treadmill work?
they probably hired 900000 indians to monitor the servers
AI- Automated Indians
*900,000 janitors
Pajannnies*
SAAR DO NOT REDEEM THE BOT
SAAAAAAAR DO NOT REDEEEEEEEM
"Actually money is how the community steers work" - Gabe Newell.
Telling TF2 players to financially boycott TF2 is the same as telling a gambler to stop gambling, because that's what the TF2 crates are - people are addicted. That's not to say that this shouldn't happen; it absolutely should. People should stop giving TF2 money if it's being neglected; I just think that the fact people are addicted is why Valve never needed to do anything about it in the first place; otherwise, people would've naturally just stopped paying them money regardless of any movements like #FIXTF2.
to be honest i see more csgo players being addicted to crates than tf2 players, it might be me but i think its true that the large percantage of income comes from the trade bots.
lmao it's like shounic didn't even watch your video. I think he knows about the Tuesday maintenance but he just wanted to be the first one to report on the bans which coincidentally started happening around the same time
The battle is won, but the war is far from over.
The Bots may have been beaten back, but they'll return, and people need to be ready
Shut up
New Mode:Players Vs BOTS
I truly, earnestly believe that Weezy himself only makes the case that boycotting should be discouraged because it would, itself, hurt _his_ bottom line. His entire career is predicated on giving Valve money for MVM tickets.
damn so I really did smell a rat reading that comment of his.
The bots being removed should be the bare minimum, It would be good to receive some ACTUAL content, new weapons formats etc.
imagine how insane it would be if we get an actual update with weapons and stuff after this
a man can only dream
@@PentaromaLMA0a MANN
Keep dreaming, i gave up long ago
@@PentaromaLMA0 mann*
Not gonna happen. Not any time soon anyway
Zesty saying "dont buy the keys" reminds me of Sam Kinison's "stop sending poor people food" bit, and he's completely right.
"You see this? Yeah? This is sand! It's sand! You know what it's gonna be a hundred years from now?"
"IT'S GONNA BE SAND! YOU LIVE IN A F*CKING DESERT!"
I just snatched that memory back, thank you for bringing it up😂
legit just got myself put in hospital and all wanna do is play no fucked tf2
2:45 I will never not be confused when suddenly my steam connection goes offline and then I realize, "oh it's tuesday"
bruhh I really don't get why some people in this community are so hesitant to simply stop purchasing loot boxes n shit. If you're really that addicted to gambling you are better off just going to an actual casino with some friends and drinks and actually have a good time
While I'm happy to play TF2 again, I far Valve only is doing this to generate good will so people will feed the gacha even harder then completely abandon the game again once they feel the summer update died down, and we'll then bee flooded again for years. Enjoy this while it lasts, we're returning to the satusquo as soon as the upcomming heatwave is gone.
If you are scrolling through the comments, and you recently bought idk. a key, or a MvM ticket...STOP AS FAST AS YOU CAN
For real now, we literally have to boycott the shit out of valve, let them FINALLY feel it for gods sake
too tired for conformity, too motivated to stop acting and speaking up
I wouldn't call this a victory, more like a trimming of the bot population. I bet that, when the summer update boxes hit, there's gonna be another huge surge of players, mostly bots.
Twitter hashtag has dropped, millions must ban TF2 cheaters
after the livestream with wheezy i lost nearly all respect for all those in the "special discord server" for not including you in it
5:37 bro got the fempyro mod on wtf :skull:
One think I'm wondering is about the review bombing. I was surprised that it actually went through, considering Steam usually prevents that. How much of an impact did that make, if any?
I agree that boycotting is effective and should be pushed, and should be tied to the fixTF2 protest. But "your money is your voice" has not stopped whales from dumping their paychecks into a game. There's a reason AAA developers can keep releasing crap: because it still profits.
Dam one of the only realistic prospective I have ever heard on the #fixTF2 situation
why does pyro in the video have a gigantic hooha? 4:58
They still need to reinstate free to play communications
4:56 👀 aWOOOOOOOga - I literally had to rewind cuz I was like, "wtf was that?!" 😂
wth is that pyro skin at 4:58
The person who did the Mannpower update in recent past was one of the Casali brothers, old time valve employee and part of the gaming community from the days of Doom (Plutonia). There may be more people working on tf2 than just the one person.
Yet, this is still not an achievement for valve. I just wanted to remind/inform those who didnt know that Casali is still working and his and the other individuals' accomplishments should be recognized and cherished, in contrast with valve's inaction.