How Does A Heat Pump Work?
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 30. 04. 2024
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How Does A Heat Pump Work?
An air source heat pump (ASHP) is a system that transfers heat from outside to inside a building, or vice versa, to heat or cool it, depending on the season.
This versatile technology enhances comfort and offers an energy-efficient alternative to conventional heating and cooling systems.
The Basics of Heat Pump Technology
At its core, the heat pump operates on a principle similar to a refrigerator's. It uses a refrigerant to transfer heat, but instead of merely cooling, it can also provide heat. The system consists of two main components: an outdoor unit and an indoor unit, connected by pipes filled with refrigerant.
The Heating Cycle
During colder months, the heat pump extracts heat from the outdoor air, even in freezing temperatures. Here's the step-by-step process:
Evaporation: The outdoor unit contains a coil that acts as an evaporator. The refrigerant within this coil absorbs heat from the external air, causing the refrigerant to evaporate and turn into a low-pressure gas.
Compression: This gas is then compressed by a compressor located in the outdoor unit. The compression process increases the temperature and pressure of the refrigerant gas significantly.
Condensation: The hot, high-pressure gas flows through to the indoor unit containing another coil. Here, the gas releases its heat, warming the air inside the home. As it loses heat, the refrigerant condenses back into a liquid.
Expansion: The high-pressure liquid refrigerant returns to the outdoor unit. It passes through an expansion valve, reducing its pressure and temperature, ready to absorb heat from the outdoor air again.
The Cooling Cycle
The heat pump can reverse the cycle to cool the building in warmer months. This process is known as the "reverse cycle":
Reverse Flow: By activating a reversing valve, the direction of the refrigerant flow changes, so the indoor coil becomes the evaporator and the outdoor coil becomes the condenser.
Indoor Evaporation: The refrigerant absorbs heat from the indoor air, cooling it. The absorbed heat turns the refrigerant from a liquid to a gas.
Heat Discharge: The compressor sends the refrigerant gas outside, releasing the absorbed heat into the atmosphere as it condenses into a liquid.
Pressure Reduction: The liquid refrigerant then returns indoors, passing through the expansion valve, decreasing pressure and temperature, ready to absorb heat from the indoor air again.
Benefits and Efficiency
Air-source heat pumps are praised for their energy efficiency. They consume less electricity than traditional heating systems that generate heat, as they simply move existing heat from one place to another. This efficiency can translate into lower energy bills and reduced environmental impact.
Moreover, modern heat pumps can operate effectively even in cold climates, making them a viable option for heating in various geographic locations. Their ability to reverse the cycle and provide cooling is an added benefit, making them an all-in-one climate control solution.
Air source heat pumps represent an intelligent technology that leverages the ambient air temperature to provide heating and cooling solutions. Efficient, versatile, and eco-friendly, they are an excellent choice for those looking to reduce their carbon footprint while maintaining year-round comfort in their homes. Whether in the heat of summer or the cold of winter, a heat pump works tirelessly to ensure your environment is just right.
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Thanks to:
đ„ @HeatGeek
www.heatgeek.com
@VaillantUK
www.vaillant.co.uk
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#heatpump #heatgeeks #heating
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One of the best explanations that I have heard is to explain things in terms of Kelvins as a temperature measurement. When we think in terms of centigrade then we talk about zero being freezing and we think thatâs cold and canât be worked with. Everything in kelvins is upwards from absolute zero being zero.
Insulation is the best investment to save on heating
That cylinder right there is a massive problem to most homes in the UK. Take a 3 bed semi that has been modernised over the years, old water tanks ripped out for better, smaller, combi boilers... Now we need to put hot water tanks BACK IN... where exactly? That space has been used to make rooms bigger, add down stairs loos etc. Now throw in terraced houses or flats...
Had comments on the last video of some people having this done, but I really want to SEE this done on smaller houses.
It's worth noting that a smaller house needs a smaller cylinder. The cylinder used in this installation is especially large. There's often a cupboard above the stairs which is usually a good place.
I'm the same, having removed all tanks for a Combi boiler a few years ago. Not great in hindsight. Although there are a few options that are worth consideringt; build an airing cupboard again, stick the tanks in the loft, or look for an external solution.
@@yngndrw. I know many of these upstairs cupboards have been removed to make bedrooms bigger, or incorporated into loft conversion access, hence my comment about older homes being modernised over the years to make more living space etc.
If you live in a bungalow like my in-laws then your buggered :D
How about a small hot water tank where the combi boiler is at the moment? It doesn't need to be as big as the one in this 6-bedroom house.
Nice simple video hope that helps push more HPâs.
Im now going for a HP at home, finally got the Steels up on the extension if you want to pop round and see what a HG is doing at their home Roger ?
Hi Tom
Yes I would be very happy to visit you and do some filming.
@@SkillBuilder
Cool
Give a call or email whichever you prefer and Iâd love to organise a time for you to pop round.
Thanks
That was a good go at explaining the essence and practical side of air-water heat pumps. Not sure about necessarily getting a shorter payback with batteries, with the up front cost and complexity increases.
I think it's a mistake to try to sell heat pumps primarily as money saving devices, as the difference is small. The message should be that it saves carbon emissions more than anything else you can do, doesn't cost more than gas to run, and protects you against future rises in the price of gas.
My wife and I sat down together to view this explanation as it was obvious I just confused her when discussing ASHP. WE both thought it was great - not too dumb and not too technical. Iâm prepared to pay money for a proper survey as the online ones can be misleading and Iâve only used as an indicator. Well done both đđ»
Looking forward to the flat earthers telling me that it violates the conservation of energy :)
the earth isn't flat ? đ€
@@no1baggiefan I put a 1.8m spirit level on the ground and it was indeed flat.
but by taking warm air from the atmosphere youre making winters colder meaning u got to use more and more energy to feed the pump
â@@yngndrw. Your Nobel Prize is in the mail.
Interesting stuff đ€đ§±đđœ
I think they are taking you round to heat pumps Roger đ
So looking at this installation what was the ball park figure cost of the total installation?
You could also put a extra jumper on and save for a nice holiday as I've never lived in a house with central heating i don't know what all the fuss is about and stopped using the gas fire when the prices went up.
Good to see you came over to the other side Roger. I'm starting my own self install of a Vaillant aroTHERM, using you guys as a reference!
Don't assume I have crossed over, I still don't think that heat pumps are a good choice for most homes or people. The gas boiler is hard to beat.
@@SkillBuilder Roger there are meetings where you can stand up (anonymously) and say, "Hello, I'm Roger, I have embarrassed my friends and family by blaming heat pumps instead of the inadequate building standards we have been using in the UK."
@@SkillBuilder 'The running cost of domestic heat pumps in the UK ' by Dr Nicholas Harrington of Glasgow University is a good read.
Adam has said to avoid fitting a balancing tank if possible. The only interested installer near me in North Wales insists they are essential. I won't get an eco4 grant and so most companies aren't interested. I need to know how these things work IN DETAIL. Because most installers don't it seems.
with the Heat Geek channel then as Adam explains it very well
Contact Blakemore Plumbing, Heating and Renewables. That particular HeatGeek will travel for someone who desires a great installation.
Your system might require one
So is it best to have a heatpump on a south facing wall as apposed to a North facing wall?
No difference in terms of heat extraction from air, âbutâ I suspect my pump on a West wall ( a sun trap after 12:00) might be having minor issue at times in weather compensation mode where air temperature is 8C (two North wall thermometers reporting), and HP in sun trap reports 15C. HP figure is what is uses to decide flow temperature to radiators.
But nothing to be worried about.
@@UpsideDownFork Could help with defrost cycles, maybe?
5:40 The guy says you can be paid to export to the grid. I thought this scheme had closed because they have enough people with solar panels now, and over supply in the summer.
Also, Would it not be more efficient to suck in the warmed air from the house which will be warmer than the outside and pump the cool air back outside after extracting heat?
Would it increase efficiency to build a metal 'chimney' duct and paint it black then have the fan input for the heat pump source there so that if there is any winter sun the air in the 'chimney' duct will be slightly warmed for free?
Sucking in warm air from the house would be counter productive as you would be cooling the house down, effectively like opening a door and putting a big fan in it. This would mean the heat pump has to work harder to keep it at your desired temperature and efficiency eould overall go down.
There is some argument to be made about trying to duct air from latent heat in a ventilated loft space but in practice I don't think it's ever been shown to be worth the effort.
In hot countries air to water heat pumps are used internally to heat a water tank because this cools the house down and heats the water at the same time (quite literally how air conditioning works but with the benefit of getting hot water for free in the process).
To suck warm air from the house you have to replace it from somewhere so you create lower pressure in the house which will cause it to suck in cold air from outside. Using sun to heat air is a good idea but in reality the times it actually gets enough solar gain will be few so you have a lot of things that can go wrong for maybe 4 or 5 times in a year when it makes a difference.
No heat pump is 400% efficient. They just use 1 unit of energy and produce 4 units of heat through phase change of a liquid. The refrigerant boils and condenses at different temperatures depending on the pressure of the liquid. When it changes from a gas to a liquid it either taxes heat in or gives it out. In the external box Rodger was standing by at the start is where it takes the heat in. And somewhere there will be a heat exchanger where it gives up the heat to the water heating system.
Itâs not rocket science.
â@@willdude21exhaust air heat pumps are a thing in Scandinavia. Typically they are only really useful up to around 3kW of heatloss. And also need a proper ventilation system in the home, so the air youre extracting heat from is already leaving the home. A system which most of the uk housing stock do not have.
@@willdude21
Itâll probably make it more useful then as an air conditioner/fridge in the summer
There are some heat pump solutions that also integrate ventilation, they are more popular in Europe, problem is itâs hard to beat the efficiency of putting the condenser part do the heat pump outside of the insulated space. The other problem is that your ventilation requirements and heat requirements are never the same, so the design is often compromised.
I have been following the trials and tribs of John and his bad installation. No two ways about it, the work done before Skill Builder and Heat Geek got involved, was, at best, poor. Great to see that you guys are getting involved together to disseminate sound knowledge and skills. There are clearly those out there who do not understand how you can get more than 100% efficiency, which does NOT change the laws of physics but rather supports them. But hey ho, there are always those who claim black is white.
I agree that some cylinders seem oversized. I was quoted for a 210kg 180litre cylinder for a MAXIMUM use of 132 litres of hot water a week. I can see no logic in that save that I know that was all that was available to the installer. Heat Geeks do a smaller 150-litre cylinder with a far superior heat recovery rate. That, if quoted for by my potential installer, would have been far more acceptable. What I am learning from all the Heat Geek and Skill Builder videos is that one still needs to be circumspect and choose accredited and higher-trained installers. Not all installers are bad, and not all are created equally. But what they put into the work they do and sell, affects greatly what we, as homeowners, get out by way of efficiency and value for money.
Ok I understand that I think ?? But what about a heat thingy from the underground as I habe a large garden ??
Ground source heat pumps work in exactly the same way except they pull warmth from the ground rather than the air. Ground temperatures stay pretty consistent throughout the year when youâre about a metre or so down. Bore holes are usually dug and the temperature of the ground down there is basically the same all year round.
I am nearly there to understanding. But how does it work in the winter when itâs 5c outside
It works a lot less well than a gas boiler for sure. You can turn a gas boiler up and down and on and off at will.
@Discopot
You have same control with a HP, it just takes a wee bit longer for effects to be noticed. In fact I can switch mine off remotely using App on phone, and switch on again for house to be nice and cosy when I get home.
But most of the time the HP ticks away keeping house at 21C or whatever you're happy with.
It's spring (I think) in N.E Scotland here, this week I've had three nights below 5C, lowest was 2C, and -2C at end of February.
These heat pumps will meet the MCS minimum room temperature requirements (21C living room, 22C bathrooms, and 18C bedrooms) right down to minus 15-25C outside, albeit they have to work a lot harder, just like a gas boiler.
Mine work just fine in -20C. 5C is a piece of cake for heat pumps. Not sure how Roger comes up with "less well than a gas boiler", because it's going to depend on your metric. You can sacrifice efficiency with a heat pump for flexibility. Just it may cost more than what a gas boiler would to achieve it, depending on how much you are paying for gas and electricity.
@@SkillBuilder Completely untrue. Heatpumps are more efficient than gas boilers, even into negative celcius. It's sad to see that even after all this time spent with Adam and all the evidence you've been shown that you still don't seem to understand how heatpump systems are supposed to work.
Vaillant is a german heatpump from Remscheid on the edge of the Ruhr valley.
Vaillant has manufactured Arotherm HPs in Derbyshire since 22nd November 2022, creating hundreds of jobs.
Where the chuff are you going to fit that in a 2 up & 2 down?
We tend to avoid the cylinders as buffers and use a specific dedicated hotwater heatpump and cylinder. This is more efficitent cause this one looks like a buffer . Our Profs teach always that a parallel buffer will cost you factor 1 of efficiency and a seriell is about factor 0,5 which means the SCOP of the heatpump of lets say 4 will decrease to a system effciencey of 3 or 3,5 instead.
Where is the buffer tank???? The answer is there isnt one
typx
There is no buffer in this system, that is a cylinder for DHW
OK, so this is basically the same general principal as a fridge.
However, whilst a fridge takes the heat out of the air in an insulated 'cupboard' and then sticks it out the back into your house, this takes it out of the air outside.
If we think it terms of degrees Kelvin (0K is absolute zero, and 273K is freezing point of water or 0C) then provided the refrigerant is capable of working at the relevant temperature then there is heat able to be taken out of the air. IIRC, then most refrigerants can work to temperatures significantly below the temperature levels found where almost any domestic houses are built.
Fridges (and air conditioners) are both applications of heat pumps.
I still use the heating coils in my heat pump because it's more efficient at quickly heating as the heat pump just maintains temperature.
Whatâs the point of install ing a heat pump to then use some kettle elements.
There are things I like about Heat Geek and things I don't, the thing I don't when I got an automated quote for my house, it was about ÂŁ7k after BUS grant and HG's guarantee was ÂŁ2k, then I got another quote a week or two later, the price was the same ÂŁ7k, but the HG guarantee dropped to ÂŁ500, so all they did was increase the cost of other items to make it seem like there guarantee is cheap!
Not sure you got your maths right there.
You say about 7k +2k for the original, then 7k +ÂŁ500 for the revised quote. That to me is ÂŁ9k vs ÂŁ7.5k. đ€
Thatâs a high price. get a quote from octopus as a comparison,
@@egg399. You will probably get a cheaper install BUT it almost defiantly wont ba as efficient.... Pay at the start for the best and save longterm or save at the beginning and pay for it forever!!!!!
@@BenIsInSweden No, the ÂŁ7k was inclusive of the HG guarantee, both times.
@@egg399. Yup, I did, Octopus quoted ÂŁ3.6k. This is for a 3 bed mid terrace house.
Strangely though they quoted for a 11kw heatloss vs HG 5kw heatloss. I'd assume a more powerful unit would cost make, making matters worse for the HG quote.
There was no mention of the temperature of the water circulating around the rads and cylinder coil for the hot water
My radiators run typically between 31-35C flow, and return 2-5C cooler. HWC heating temperature depends what you require 43C is good for a hot bath or shower. My heat pump will heat to 55C (a Daikin 6kW âlow temperatureâ HP). âHigher temperatureâ Heat pumps can heat to 70C.
@@_Dougaldog Domestic hot water in a cylinder has got to be 60c-65c to avoid Legionella. I take it you have changed all your radiators for very large ones to get the heat output and larger pipes to circulate that less than Luke warm water.
@@Jimdirt7898 Not quite correct.... For starters domestic legionella is pretty much un heard of and secondly you only have to take the water up to temperature for a short period of time. Legionella will be killed at lower temps but it takes longer
@@Jimdirt7898
It does not, 50C for two hours (55C one hour) will kill legionella which tend to lurk and breed in standing water.
In an unvented well used HWC Legionella is very unlikely ever to be an issue, water feed is Chlorinated for a start.
The bacteria infects your lungs through inhalation of water vapor containing legionella bacteria, perhaps a shower head fed from a HWC that has been sitting idle for a week or two, hotels might be one example.
@@Jimdirt7898
Yes all pipework was upgraded to 28mm primary feeds with 15mm to upsized radiators, HWC now unvented Mixergy, much better than than the broken gas boiler and associated 40-60 year old plumbing the HP replaced, and at under ÂŁ4k, a bargain.
The 'less than luke warm' keeps my house cosy 24/7 with living room @ 21-23C, and all for under ÂŁ100 a month on standard 25p tariff.
One of the best bits is the unvented HWC supply now, hot high flow rate shower straight from tap. Electric shower now scrap, HP heats HW with a COP of 3.5.
150 litres from cold to 55C in 55 minutes.
How does it work if the air temperature is 0C?
The temperature of the refrigerant is even lower. It's a bit like how a freezer is able to get the compartment down to -20. Even at -19, there's still heat energy in the air to extract
Thereâs still heat in the air down to -273c
I worked as an engineer in a hospital for 24 years and the water was always kept at 60-65c even at the basins I attended many seminars on water tech and it was recommended even in domestic situations to not let it drop down into the 50s I wouldnât take the risk but its everybodyâs choice. There was quite a few people admitted to hospital with illnesses which turned out to be Legionella and there were thorough investigations to see if they caught it in the hospital but it was always in found there houses
I think you're missing the point that heat pump tanks do a regular legionella purge cycle even if they're normally at 45 degrees. Maybe if you attended a more up to date seminar they would explain that.
Also it sounds like you are aware that domestic and medical installations have different requirements.
@@jamesclark5654Iâve been retired 14 years where does it get the 60 degrees from to kill any Legionella
@@Jimdirt7898just runs at a lower efficiency for a bit, all modern heat pumps can run at 60C, just not very efficient doing it, still better than just a heating element though!
At an ambient outside temperature of 15 c going into the HP unit and with the temperature measured on the output side of the fan being 5 c , that is 10 degrees , how exactly will 10 degrees heat the HW cylinder to 50 degrees?
@@UpsideDownFork Ok what large amounts of energy?
@@Etacovda63 The title of the video was â how heat pumps workâ , but explained nothing .
â@@haydnlawrence8167I'm sure this isn't the only video on CZcams explaining how heat pumps work. Plus there's this marvellous tool called Google.
@@UpsideDownFork This was filmed with heatgeeks and explained nothing.
There's an awful lot more air outside of home than there is inside your home.
If you're taking 10C of a larger volume of air, transferring that heat energy into a smaller volume of air, the smaller volume will heat up by a greater amount than the heat lost outside.
If you ask yourself, "why isn't my kitchen heating up by 15C when my freezer is on?" then you get the exact same scenario, only in reverse.
In a 2 bedroom terraced house, how would this actually work?
There's a few on visitaheatpump. So if you're curious, maybe there's one near you to go and see.
Outside unit would be 1/3 size hung on a rear wall, cylinder would be in the loft space. Only 30 years ago every house had a couple of water tanks and a cylinder, so Iâm not sure itâs that much of an issue. Plus you get useful cupboard space back in your kitchen :)
As room temperature dropped to 8'c last Winter I'm considering a heat pump as we cannot get gas. However, the cost, even without the grant is likely to be ÂŁ8000 as we'll need radiators. Then yes, leave it on all the time but that'll mean really upgrading the insulation at another 10k cost. I'm sorry, but it's cheaper to move. In either case, it's a blasted frustrating proposition.
Is Air to air a possibility for you? No need for rads then just the wall space for the indoor units and you can reduce the number of those if you keep doors open between rooms.
Insulation is not necessary for HP to work effectively, and you can still get a good performance out of it. If you're in rural Scotland and off gas grid then grant is ÂŁ9k.
You don't have to leave it on all the time, mines been ticking away 24/7 at typically 450W this past month (March bill was ÂŁ97 for heating and hot water).
Today for first time outside temperature has risen above 12C, and heat pump has gone to sleep of its own accord, now drawing 11W.
Thermal mass off house has kept living room temperature steady @21.4C for last four hours, outside has crept up to 14C.
What happens in winter with freezing temperatures coupled with short daylight hours and cloud cover?
Just a bit sceptical on how you create 4.5kw from 1kw (laws of physics - you can't create or destroy energy, just change its state. At least that's what I thought)?
Oh, and you need a plant room in your house.
Interesting video though, thanks.
You don't create energy. You make the outside colder and the inside warmer, with that 1 kW being the work that has to be done to move 4 kW of heat against the gradient.
Just like your fridge isn't making energy disappear, it's moving it from inside to the outside. Making the inside of your fridge cooler and your kitchen warmer.
Youâre not creating heat with a heat pump. Youâre using the compressor and the refrigerant to absorb and compress the heat energy that already exists in the air. This heat is then transferred to the water that goes round your heating system. There is heat available in the air, even well below freezing point.
Yeah plant rooms are key for breaking laws of physics.
As you approach the speed of light energy changes to mass :-)
Other than that the state of zero energy (where all the molecules stop bouncing about) occurs at approximately -273.14 C.
Air at -18 C has about 85% of the energy of air at 21C.
Thanks all, some interesting explanations of how these systems work.
Didn't understand the 5 year payback when surely the solar install and battery is another large investment?! Show the numbers maybe instead?
I gave an example in another comment:
Lets say using solar 4000kWh of heat can be provided "for free" by the heat pump at a COP of 4 (to keep things rounded), for 1000kWh of electricity. (using current price caps, and octopus's 15p export tariff)
A 90% efficiency boiler would provide that for about ÂŁ255.
A heat pump without solar would cost ~ÂŁ245.
Exporting the 1000kWh would net you ÂŁ150.
So, solar + gas, would mean you're getting ÂŁ150 out of it to payback your solar install. And a heat pump on it's own would be ÂŁ10.
However combine the two and you've saved ÂŁ255 to allocate how you like to paying back either the solar or heat pump.
Some may argue that you've lost out on the ÂŁ150 export, but if you're willing to sacrifice on home heating and hot water, you wouldn't be paying the ÂŁ255 in the first place.
I love the idea, but if the electricity is not as cheap as gas or made by gas, what is the point? And if electricity was cheap why not have electric heating and point of use hot water, i.e. direct cylinder or electric combi .
electric combis are crap. Never have one
Heat Pumps have an environmental yield that makes up some of the energy. so even with it being powered by a gas power plant, it reduces overall gas used for home heating. You can also save money on running costs as well, even when electricity is more expensive than gas.
1kw of electricity (~25p) is about 4x the cost of 1kw of gas (~6p). If your heatpump is working correctly it should provide an efficiency of 400% or more, which means for each kw of electricity you put in, you get 4kw of heat. A gas boiler is only 85-90% efficient if they're working correctly and have been serviced regularly. This means for each kw of gas you put into the boiler, you get 0.9kw of heat out (tops). Do the maths and it works out that to get 4kw of heat into your home costs 20p with a heatpump and ~26p with a gas boiler.
The issue comes when the heatpump hasn't been installed correctly and efficiencies are lower, so it ends up costing more than gas. This is why it's important to get people that know what they're doing and have been trained properly.
Using electricity to heat your home or water directly, without a heatpump, would only provide efficiencies of 100%, so would cost much more than gas.
Point of use =100% efficiency MAX. A good system will return upwards of 350% This is the territory where it saves money over gas.
Do not ever install direct electric heating, it will bankrupt you.
Iâm quite happy with my tiny little box on the wall in the corner of my kitchen, thanks. Make it a similar size, with matched performance, ease of repair, and price, then I might be interested.
agreed. thing is heat pumps are literally none of these things and wont be anytime soon. not even slightly realistic for a regular house owner.
â@@TheFatNumptyexcept for the fact Scandanavian countries have been using them for decades and their countries get very cold.
@@mikeypc3592 good on them, but this is my house and a big fat complicated box in my garden doesnât float my boat.
How much noise do those fans create?
Are neighbours likely to be homicidal after a day or two?
Can you hear the fan that they're standing next to in the video?
Previous videos of this exact job document that whole subject. Take a look at those.
Shame it's not a Vaillant boiler to run a hybrid
Why, itâs cheaper to run as it is during all typical outside temperatures, no point having a gas boiler for that one day a decade itâs under minus 10
@@edc1569 he's already paid for a boiler, he wants to keep it. If they communicate it's going to be more convenient. With gas tracker prices in the sub 4p over winter ASHP not always cheaper.
Sorry did I miss the explanation? It uses refrigerant to extract the heat out of the air and put that into the house - but it was only 10 degrees and that was being shared between the radiators and the water. So where is the heat coming to heat the house? 10 degrees is freezing!
"Sorry did I miss the explanation?"
=======
You did, however if you read through comments there is some explanation. No heat only exists at -273.14 Celsius (approximately).
Essentially a similar process that allows your fridge to extract heat from freezer which is at -18C and pass that heat to your kitchen.
You must wonder about the miracle of engineering the allows your freezer to be at -20C in your 25C room.
I don't think you can count the solar generated electricity as part of the business case for your heat-pump install, unless, of course, the panels have been in more than *their* payback period, which is likely to be (have been) c10 years... Double counting, otherwise.
good point and the opportunity cost of the capital also needs to be factored in. Putting that money in an ISA for ten years means you still have the capital. There is a lot to consider when you start throwing figures around.
Lets say using solar 4000kWh of heat can be provided "for free" by the heat pump at a COP of 4 (to keep things rounded), for 1000kWh of electricity. (using current price caps, and octopus's 15p export tariff)
A 90% efficiency boiler would provide that for about ÂŁ255.
A heat pump without solar would cost ~ÂŁ245.
Exporting the 1000kWh would net you ÂŁ150.
So, solar + gas, would mean you're getting ÂŁ150 out of it to payback your solar install. And a heat pump on it's own would be ÂŁ10.
However combine the two and you've saved ÂŁ255 to allocate how you like to paying back either the solar or heat pump.
Some may argue that you've lost out on the ÂŁ150 export, but if you're willing to sacrifice on home heating and hot water, you wouldn't be paying the ÂŁ255 in the first place.
A mate just had a quote, heat pump new tank new bigger pipes to rads new rads ÂŁ13000 and a fortune a month to run it đ
And no one to fix it when it breaks down.
Just got same done for ÂŁ4k, and ÂŁ97 in March running it 24/7 đ đ đ
Sounds like he gota quote from the wrong place.
You probably need a rocket scientist to come and fix it if things go wrong and how much would that cost to fix you probably need to remortgage your house to get a rocket scientist out it looks such a complex bit of kit
The heat pump itself is just a refrigerator in reverse. A person who can repair a fridge / freezer / air conditioning unit can repair the refrigeration system.
A rocket scientist is not likely to have the required f-gas qualification. :)
Why would you need a rocket scientist to fix a heat pump? Have you heard of heating engineers? You know, those same people that have been servicing your gas boiler for years?
If I was going to complain about the system I would suggest that when everyone gets one the noise of all the units outside will be bad especially when they age a bit.
yngndrw
A heat pump is way more complicated than a fridge. Take the cover off one and look at the PCB. That will be the expensive repair
@@SkillBuilderlook at the PCB on your boiler, at least itâs not got wear components like ignition circuits.
The ONLY question I need answering is how you extract the heat from air at zero degrees (you know, when you REALLY need it)? If it really works then you do not need a combi boiler as "back up". Makes as much sense to me as a hybrid petrol/electric car.
Over engineered, vastly expensive, inefficient bolleaux and as much use as an EV car.
There is heat energy available in the air, even well below freezing. The heat pump extracts that heat using a compressor and concentrates it into a refrigerant, which then passes the heat into the water system going round your house. Itâs the same as a fridge or an A/C system working in reverse.
You do not need a boiler as a backup. This chap has one as he had his previous heat pump installed by a donkey and now has trust issues. Usually youâd bin the boiler.
Itâs not complicated when you take 5 minutes to learn a bit about it. If you donât get it, learn it.
Any temperature above absolute zero ( -273°C) technically contains energy (heat), although of course current heat pump technology wonât work at quite that low a temperature yet!
I'm in Colorado and my heat pump works at below -25C for three nights in a row, no backup system. I admit, I wasn't 100% sure it would until it did.
Air can go colder than zero degrees. The heat pump sucks in air at zero, extracts heat, and blows it out at (say) -10c.
Your freezer does the same; it extracts heat from inside the freezer, even though it's at -18c, and warms the coils on the back.
The heat pump is able to absorb heat at 0c because the refrigerants that circulate within the pipework have a lower boiling point. Water boils at 100c where as refrigerants (one like R32 which is likely used in that heat pump) boils at -52c.
Sorry but this video does a poor job at explaining exactly how these work. It leaves lots of unanswered questions. Please work closely with Adam and create a myths busted version where peopleâs false claims about heat pumps are busted. It will help people understand more. I would recommend checking out the "How Can Heat Pumps Be More Than 100% Efficient?" video on the Heat Geek CZcams channel if you really want to understand how they work.
Agree. A terrible explanation. Get someone with an Engineering degree to explain the refrigeration cycle and âCoefficient of Performanceâ. Also explain the critical issue of the house insulation. Without both, heat pumps donât work.
@@paulcs2607
But heat pumps will work in a poorly insulated property if they are designed for its heat loss.
In a very well insulated property you can get away with smaller output HP's, or perhaps smaller radiators and pipework leading to a potential one to one swap out of a boiler for a HP.
Less cost.
@@HughjundysIt doesnât heat the outside air. There is no heating element converting electricity to heat. It extracts heat from the outside and pumps it inside. If you used the inside air as the source it would be removing heat from the inside and then putting it back in which would be pointless.
@@Hughjundys Heatpumps move heat from outdoors to indoors. You can't move heat from indoors to indoors.
@@Hughjundys There is heat energy in the air all the way down to true zero (-273c), though heatpumps struggle to tap into that below -20c or so. If it's 16c outside there is LOADS of heat energy available. A heat pump compresses that energy into a smaller space via a refrigerant, which makes it hotter. It then uses that refrigerant to heat the water going round your radiators. I would recommend watching "How Can Heat Pumps Be More Than 100% Efficient?" on the Heat Geek CZcams channel. That'll explain it fully, in detail.
But where does the additional heat come from . This is not explained well, I love the skill build channel. Do better .
We are trying to strike a balance between geeks and those members of the public who just don't understand what a heat pump is.
In particular we have many overseas viewers who don't understand our air to water units.
So, you extract 10 degrees from outside air, so the "hot" water in the tank will be 10 degrees too ?
How would extracting 10 degrees make 'hot' water ?
I still do not believe anything can be 400% efficient.
Thermal energy is transported and concentrated. Think: I've taken a smaller amount of thermal energy in a large volume outside, into a smaller space inside; that means I have more thermal energy in a smaller volume, and hence a higher temperature. It is not creating any new energy. You invest a certain amount of electrical energy in the unit's compression and pumps in order to transport a larger volume of thermal energy.
For example, 400% efficiency means you invested 1kWh of electricity to transport 3kWh of heat from outside (+ the 1kWh of electricity that also became heat and is piped inside, too).
What efficiency you achieve is related to factors such as the outside air temperature (cold air has less energy per volume), efficiency of the refrigerant, efficiency of the fans/motors, limits of physics, etc.
@no1baggiefan: No it doesn't work like that, ignore the specific temperature difference as 10C is not a unit of energy - It was only used to demonstrate that energy was extracted from the air.
Energy is mass flow * specific heat capacity * the temperature difference.
From this, to get the energy you have to consider the amount of air you're moving. (A lot, hence the massive fans)
It's basically just a refrigeration system. Your fridge (or freezer) extracts energy from the inside of the fridge and deposits it outside, but the condenser on the back of your is only slightly warmer than the room's air temperature. It still manages to get your fridge to -5C and your freezer to -18C.
400% efficient is just a layman's explanation, really it's just the expression that for every one unit of electrical energy you put in, you're getting 4x the useful thermal energy out. (~3x of which is extracted from the air)
So, lets say that the air outside is 1km cubed right? Walk with me here. How much energy does it take to energy does it take to heat up 1km3 of air to 10 degrees? Now Im not doing the calculus, but Ill give you a very simple answer. Enough to heat a lot of water to the point of boil. The efficiency is a measure then of how much energy (in this case electric) is put into the refrigeration system and how much energy (in the form of heat for the boiler is extracted). Lets say you put in ÂŁ1 worth of electricity into that fan and it extracts ÂŁ5 worth of boiled water by absorbing the latent/ambient temperature of the air outside. The basic principles in all this are actually rather familiar, you just invert the process of your fridge in which you pay energy into the fridge to pump heat out of it. Now I am on your side, I am rather skeptical about this 400% claim, but I am more inclined toward science than engineering and unlike in engineering, nature doesnt work in clean percentages like that. But really most energy sources we use operate at well above 100% efficiency (hence why we use them) 1kg of processed uranium is probably thousands of percent energy efficient to get productive, Ill look it up but I wouldnt be surprised.
Well im not a fan of these systems but the phrase "extracting heat " from the air can be misleading to be honest. All this outside air is doing is blowing over the evaporator side of the system and helps change the state of the refrigerant so that it can be recompressed and start the cycle again. It actually does NOT give you warming heat that you can use , and only blows over the evaporator. đ
@@Geo_Seph Thank you, that makes more sense than the video explanation tbf.
When people talk about "taking heat from air" you would think they were nucking futs if it was 1c outside, but taking into consideration of the MASS of the air outside vs the mass of your house, then it makes sense.
That means if energy prices were at normal levels. You'd be talking about a 30-year payback.
@@UpsideDownFork it's not. I've written ROI calculators that provide payback based on multi variate analysis, including muti solar arrays, battery, EV car charging etc. It's will always be a projection though. Projection and actual will always differ in such scenarios but that's not the point, the point is to make a decision based on a series of assumptions about the future. None of that is intractable.
â@@UpsideDownForkProving it's not a piece of string, you just need to make a number of assumptions about the future, as you have in your example. đ
@@user-od3rl5mc
Whatâs the payback time on a typical gas boiler ?
Heat pumps TRANSFER heat using science as opposed to something like an electric heater or boiler that generates heat. This is why they are energy efficient.
â Transfer heat using science â . đđ€Łđ
@haydnlawrence8167 it's called thermodynamics, which is the science of the relationship between heat, work, temperature and energy. Didn't fancy writing all that but I guess I should have done for thick keyboard warriors such as yourself đ€Łđđ€Ł.
This is so complicated, especially compared to what used to be used.
It really isnât. Times change and technology moves on.
My old folks struggle with the room thermostat attached to their Combi! This type of setup will be very difficult for some to understand. I think given time and the advances in AI, controlling these systems will become a lot simpler.
@@UpsideDownFork In other words, nuh uh. Great argument.
@@egocd Sure. We all march forward to a glorious future. This is, however, more complicated than systems of the past. Indisputable.
â@@uncouthboy8028oh so that explains why much colder Scandanavian countries have been using them for decades.
This is all a load of hot air to me.
The only system I have seen work is one that put the coins buried in the ground. Ground temperature stays consistent after so many feet down. You cannot change 10c into 20c.
There are thousands of perfectly working air source heat pump systems.
Think of a heat pump as an air conditioner in reverse. A/C works in exactly the same way by transferring heat via a refrigerant.
Air source heat pumps work well below freezing. Look at Scandinavia. Theyâve been using heat pumps for 30 years.
So many practical examples around you where we move heat from a colder location to a hotter one.
You probably need a extra room to have all that equipment in your house itâs probably okay for the rich
You need a water tank. Thatâs it. This guyâs setup is more complicated as he decided to keep his boiler, which isnât necessary.
That's an extreme case. Most will just need a modern cylinder which fits in the typical airing cupboard
I fitted a heat pump for heating only. Electricity shower and under sink water heaters so I didnât need the big tank.
5:33 so itâll work great in the summer with a hot summers day when you donât need itđ€Ł Thanks for that lol
These videos are comedy gold . Just waiting for the Peter Kay cameo.
@@Etacovda63
Ever heard of a cold shower?
You donât need the water to be piping hot in hot weather, you need it to be piping hot in winter. This fails on both accounts.
Most will perform admirably to -25C as theyâre designed to do. The decrease in performance on the few really cold days is more than paid back over the year.
â@@leeboss373it really doesn't. The only relevance of time of year to a heat pump is it's efficiency; in the winter when it is colder, it'll be less efficient. That is irrelevant to your argument anyway; the figures referred re 400% efficiency relate to the efficiency over a whole year - during the summer you might see near 600%, and the coldest few nights of the year might drop to 220%.
These things do work otherwise you wouldn't see them in actually cold places like in Scandinavia and North America.
They bring all these new ideas out, without thinking about small luxuries like space, or costs, or making it possible for the owner, to work on it, so as doing away with expensive tradesmen prices. Rules will dictate that a 'certified' individual will be the only persons, allowed to work on them, and we are still, using expensive electrical energy, to run them, which is still going up in price, so it is not any cheaper, in real terms, both in cost and the climate. Sorry for the negatives, but it is true.
Might want to catch up a bit. Unlike a gas boiler, monoblock heat pumps like this one can be DIY installed. Most essential maintenance can be carried out by the homeowner as well.
The UK has one of the highest gas to electricity price ratios in Europe, and really isn't sustainable, as Solar is already at the point where it makes sense for many to install regardless of a heat pump
It works great when it is warm outside, but when it isn't you need to pull electric from the grid or you use your secondary system. Same for solar power. How do you pay this back in 5 years with solar? The system will cost ÂŁ40,000 or more without the new immersion tanks. My heating is ÂŁ1300 per year and the grid don't buy back your solar power generated electricity at anywhere near the rate that we pay them. Let's see some calculations!
Heat pumps work when it's cold outside, it may be 300% efficient rather than 500% but will still work.
There might be a new really cheap method of electricity generation on the horizon, perhaps thats part of the drive to get people onto electrical everything.
Or its all about making Russia easier to conquer and take over for corporations (it's tax payers money after all)
My HP cost about ÂŁ97 in March running 24/7 on standard rate 24.95 p/kWh. Itâs currently ticking along at 412W (7.7C outside temperature). Aprils bill @ ÂŁ76 if I remember.
You can get one grant per property. Current grants are available for:
ÂŁ7,500 towards an air source heat pump
means for every installation of these heat pump, taxpayers have to pay ÂŁ7500 to them
Great business đ
Did the government put up your tax to fund the BUS?
It completely doesnât matter where you send the electricity, if youâre consuming it. If youâre using 1kW, youâre using 1kW. Youâre not âmultiplyingâ it by using it with the heat pump. If youâre sending 1kW to the heat pump from solar and consuming 1kW elsewhere, it makes no difference if you swap them.
Err no, you misunderstand how heat pumps work. They move heat, so the electricity you consume is only for moving the heat, so with a COP of 4 you'd get 4x as much heat into the cylinder as electricity consumed vs a solar divert immersion. Or you could say that for the same amount a heat pump will use 1/4 of the electricity, allowing the other 3/4 to be sold to the grid or used for something else.
But it does make a difference, 1kW of electrical energy to an immersion will transfer 1kW of heat to the water in cylinder. A COP of 1 if you like.
That same 1kW of electrical energy send to a heat pump will allow that heat pump to recover about 3.5kW of heat from the outside air and transfer it to water in cylinder. A COP of 3.5 in cylinder heating mode.
So a real gain in terms of hot water produced when using electricity to drive heat pump rather than an immersion.
Often people get caught out initially as immersion is called upon unnecessarily to heat water when heat pump as source is much cheaper.
Dougaldog
I think it is worth saying that the COP goes down as the temperature goes up so, if you have a heat pump capable of reaching 60 deg C in the winter the COP is not going to be much better than 1 and during this time there will be nothing going into the heating system. Putting the solar pv through the heat pump makes a lot more sense in the summer.
@@SkillBuilder
I agree with the principal of what youâve said regarding drop in efficiency as higher transfer temperatures and also lower outside temperatures.
But I think you may be a bit disingenuous with a COP of one.
My HP heats HWC to 55C, external temperature was 4.3C (I donât have too many examples as evidenced yet) and yet it returned a COP of @ 3.5. Anything below 2 would be extremely rare I would think.
Unfortunately I donât have an Emon heat meter but can only estimate COP on data in Emoncms.
@@_Dougaldog No, it doesn't. If you're generating 1kW from solar... and you're consuming 1kW in a heat pump and 1kW elsewhere... 2kW in total... IT.DOESN'T.MATTER.WHERE.YOU.PUT.IT. You're consuming 2kW, regardless. The 1kW for the heat pump is producing whatever it is producing regardless of the source.
Lots of extrasâŠlooks super expensive
This is a real shame because I normally come to this channel for good information but what happened here? Sucking 10 degrees centigrade out of the air described as heat, well yes, but how does that heat cold water? How does it ever get above 10C which is barely warm. What happens when it's -2 outside - how much heat does it suck from the air then? Then we have this stuff about getting the solar panels to feed the heat pump not the immersion heater because the heat pump will convert 1Kw to 4 or 5kw - your're going to have to explain that one.
Compression of the refrigerant greatly increases the temperature. Consider that your freezer goes to sub zero temperatures - does is similarly chill or heat your kitchen or utility by the same amount? No.
Imagine you have a magical sponge that can soak up warmth from outside, even when it's cold, and then squeeze it out inside to make our house cozy and warm.
The squeezing only takes a little bit of energy to do.
This is the basics of vapour compression and how heat pumps can be more than 100% efficient. You are just expending a little electricity to run a compressor that then moves heat around.
@@Swwils if your magical spong is soaking up heat from the outside how come theres still global warming?
really puts a wrinkle on the horn eh
@@jamesclark5654 is this a real question? There is a scale difference.
@@Swwils I'm only joking!
How does a heat pump work?, not very well. Who's got the money and space for all that system for something that doesn't work. Numpties.
That's a huge system for a huge house, most installations are much smaller.
Im not an engineer but the physics is rather simple. Its just doing what your fridge does but in reverse. Which is similarly quite valuable since people tend to spend a lot of money on hot water and heating. You might think of the air outside as being cold or "not warm" but if you take a large enough sample of it, and extract even a fraction of the ambient heat available then it is actually a shocking amount of energy available. Its the very same heat energy that drives the winds, rains, snows and clouds.
@@Geo_Seph I understand the physics of heat pumps, I also understand their limitations... These are an inferior alternative to boilers and are ideologically driven by climate propaganda. Not reality mate.
@@JamesKing-ev1wcHow are they inferior to boilers? When installed correctly they are cheaper to run, quieter, better for the environment and make your home more comfortable by keeping a stable temperature.
@@egocd size, cost, storage tanks,most installers don't have the expertise, eye sore (they look hideous, noisy) require the house to be insulated, not suitable for flats., work very poorly in low levels of environmental heat, Should I go on? Or are you so ideologically sick that you can't see the down side of the silly scheme?
You really want a monstrous lump like that in the garden, , Another Sh%t Home Product. that cost a fortune
That's not a nice thing to say about Roger now is it?
In all seriousness though, not sure why people get worked up about the box when they already have multiple bins sitting outside looking far worse.
And there are alternative heat pumps that don't require a box in the garden, e.g. nibe have a PV-T one which uses the solar thermal loop in the solar panels as a collector for the heat pump. But maybe you think solar panels are also monstrosities as well. đ€·
@@BenIsInSweden "Yep" you will be telling me climate change is real next.
@@richardlyons7582 why would I? Heat pumps here were installed for the simple fact they saved on energy bills and it has been that way for decades. The UK is decades behind on heating homes properly that people see improving the heat loss of their home is a cost associated with a heat pump rather than measures to reduce energy consumption and thus bills.
@@BenIsInSweden Cost and maintenance is terrible in the UK, The gentleman before had a ASHP installed at great cost and did not work and had to have a complete new system put in. I think done for free, but they can't do this to every ASHP installations and do a free install.
@@richardlyons7582 once again a UK problem of not having the skillset in understanding low temperature heating and how to apply it to a heat pump. Cheap gas has afforded the UK to be lax on doing things right the first time around, because low temperature heating isn't unique to heat pumps, gas boilers have been able to do it since the non condensing days (with some caveats), but all condensing boilers are capable.
If the original heat pump setup was done by someone who knows heat pumps and low temperature heating, then Jon's system would have been working properly from the get-go.
All you require is another room on your house to site your calorifier cylinder and associated bits and bobs. the three port valve has a life expediency of four years at a replacement cost of only ÂŁ 473.89p together with a annual maintenance contract of only ÂŁ357.00p. Progress or profit for the supplier, your comments below...
Three port valves are used in non-combi boiler setups. So not really a negative for a heat pump.
Where are you getting annual maintenance costs from? As people have had experience of it being about ÂŁ200.
The UK seems to have stuck with annual servicing as a hangover from boilers.
Over here where they've been around for decades, have a recommended service interval of 2-4 years.
Unlike boilers where there's a safety issue with not servicing, heat pump maintenance is more cleaning and making sure connections are still tight and a test run to make sure the heat pump will get up to the correct temperatures.
It doesn't, they're shite! People need to understand that they won't heat your central heating enough to keep you warm during the winter
So the thousands of installations where people are more than happy are all lying, then?
Mine kept me warm in -20C. Was 20C inside most of the house and 25C in my daughter's room.
Looks like youâre outnumbered, mine works fine, although only tested to -2c outside as was a late February install. The difficult bit is not generating heat, but stopping it generating too much.
When you say it sucks the heat from the outside air, where does that heat come from in the dead of winter? Are you being paid by the government?
What a strange comment about being paid by the government. The heat is in the air, if there was no heat it would be ice and even then there is heat.
I agree that heat pumps are less efficient as the temperature drops but with modern refrigerants they can pull a lot more heat out of the air. Can they match the heat loss from a building in cold weather? That depends on the insulation.
Even when things are cold, they can get colder, it's just harder work on the system. Basically it's to do with differential, or in other words the difference between the outside and the inside. If it's greater it will be more work to extract heat from the air. Occasionally the coils will create ice, and you use electric elements to melt the ice and you start again. It's physics, nothing to do with the government. From your comment I can't tell if you actually don't understand, or if you are joking, or trolling... Either way thermodynamics is very predictable.
Sorry to hear that you are so thĂck, @stanbewick2685
Must be a total mystery to you how your fridge continues to work on a hot day, do you stare into it in wonder?
I feel like this is a very British comment where the idea thatâs thereâs temperatures below 0C is a hard thing to comprehend, the Americans use Fahrenheit and the Scandinavians live with it.
What a load of bollocks!
đ
Did you know skill builder and Snoke from star wars have never been seen in the same room. Coincidence? (just Google Snoke)
conspiracy comment time , heat pumps actually make the winters COLDER by sucking out the warm air from the atmosphere , meaning u need to use them more and more often, the vise verse of air conditioning
That's an easy one to debunk as the heat inside your house escapes to the outside again.
And if you reverse heat pump and use to cool inside then ultimately the heat you've dumped outside will creep back into house :-)