Discord Is Helping Nintendo Stop Switch Emulators
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- čas přidán 15. 04. 2024
- Nintendo has ordered Discord to remove servers and accounts for developers of Switch emulators.
Featured article from @nintendolife
www.nintendolife.com/news/202...
Footage from @DigitalDreamsyt
Channel art by @PaintraSeaPea
Discord cooperating to take down emulators and Apple actively supporting emulators was not on my 2024 bingo card.
apple supporting emus?
@@alecmilThey're allowed on the app store now.
@@alecmil Delta App is officially on the appstore without jailbreaking or jit loading
@@alecmil yes but it was because the eu forcerd them
@@blikthepro972no it wasn’t
The internet is too centralised. I hate that it's stuck between like 4 sites that everyone hates
lobbyists gotta answer to the world
That's what I was gonna say.
Ikr, i miss the days where there were thousands of sites people visited. Now its just twitter facebook youtube discord amazon and twitch
@@requiem165 I miss when standards were as low as prekindergarten math.
Yeah, but what good comes from decentralizing the internet if the capital for funding it and its content will still be centralized in the bourgeoisie?
There’s no solution for this under capitalism.
Yet another reason why we need to stop consolidating communities into discord servers.
bring back forums
@grnpyro5110 true. I hate having to join a discord to ask for help or documentation especially, but at the same time I don't wanna make a new account for everything and nintendo would probably take down the forum
@@user-lr7cc8iu3mThe Fire Emblem romhacking community uses Discourse for the forums/documentation and tutorials, and Discord for quick help. We get quite a lot of traffic from Google because Discourse is great for SEO!
@@grnpyro5110I agree on bringing back forums, but Discord is not a replacement for a forum service as it's a chat service.
@@NottJoeyOfficial it's not a replacement for a forum service, but some communities are using it as one
The real thing that sucks is that the Yuzu developers also made Citra (the big 3DS emulator). You can absolutely argue over the ethics of current gen emulation, but there are like 6 3DS games that are still being sold.
And it's Smash bros, animal crossing, Luigi's mansion and 3 pokemon games lol.
It's technically eol now. They shut down the stores, they sell physical games nearly nowhere anymore, so it's not a significant margin.
Luckily, an actual 3DS is a very easy thing to mod...
@@SuperPaperPokemon hardware breaks down both of my 3ds's have a bloated battery... emulation is necessary.
@@SuperPaperPokemon you can also very easily find citra online it's development was more of less finished.
I really appreciate that "Should I make a video if I don't have anything new to add to the conversation?" is something you consider when making videos. Really wish it was more common.
The Discord stuff is really worrisome, and I feel like it's indicative of the way copyright enforcement is being carried out across all media. Recently a manga reading app called Tachiyomi got a bunch of flack from official webtoon publishers and the app got completely wrecked and threatened with copyright lawsuits, despite not actually uploading any copyrighted material and only being a tool for reading any type of comic. I feel like it existed in a similar space to game emulators.
That's absolutely terrible. Some people can just abuse their power and punish others who did nothing wrong except provide a better service. How is that legal ? That's just bullying and anti-consumer practices
It's not worrisome. Discord is covering its ass because it is not protected by safe harbor laws.
I remember a search engine that made it easy to find movies on sites like openload(also gone now) and ehm, "explicit movies " as well that I think was shut down for these kinda reasons but I'm like
Eehm..how is the search engine the one that's taken down? It doesn't host anything right?isn't
Still wild that the company run by Doug Bowser went after Gary Bowser
The mainstream news media doesn't want you to know about Bowser-on-Bowser crime.
There can be only one!
Mario & Luigi Bowsers inside story's Dark Bowser
Theyre brothers like dante and vergil
As someone named Carlo I’m gonna pretend like this channels named after me 😀
You need to find a "Topi" for that to happen 🤯
there actually was an arlo variant on twitter named carlo thats a cross between a car and a arlo
don’t ask
thank you for inspiring this channel
@@LadwithanOMaybe he will find his Topi one day
the auto-generated subtitles would make it easy to pretend :>
This is especially frustrating, because Nintendo actually did have a dangerously strong case against Yuzu, with lots of evidence that they broke some very clear rules reverse-engineering cannot get away with crossing. Yuzu handed them an easy clear-cut win which, very importantly, let Nintendo NOT attack any of the fundamental arguments people have made about the legality of emulation and the emulation of legally obtained games. That's important, because those arguments are untested in court, and no one dares be the one to test it, because precedent could very easily get set that publishers are wrong and people really do have the right to play their purchased games however they like and there's nothing the seller can do about it. This has legal implications WAY beyond just the domain of emulation, it applies to always-online games bricking themselves when the servers go down, it applies to modding, it applies to player-run unofficial servers, it applies to just, the entire breadth of hobbyist activity AROUND the business of gaming which, in any non-digital domain, is an open and closed case 100% in favor of the consumer. If I wanna paint my coffee table, I don't have to make sure Ikea's EULA allows that lest they repossess it.
...But this? This wasn't any of that. Those other emulators have not, as far as we know, given Nintendo any easy legal ammo to use against them. So going through discord is just their way to dodge the problem, to basically just *bully* other companies into compliance so that they don't *have* to care about the law. The fact that they can so easily get away with that is... Unsurprising, but disturbing.
I agree we need some legal precedent for the dumping of keys and of games and for using them for personal use. This madness needs to end and needs to be settled.
We need to start lobbying against DRM again. It's wild that people ever stopped.
The arguments made against Yuzu can be made against any switch emulator, as they all need to bypass the same encryptions to function. What Yuzu did to get Nintendo's attention was be loud about it. It's not a tested legal theory, even if it is a good one. Therefore Nintendo is incentiveized to ignore emulators if the state of the industry suits them. Making emulators for a system that's still being supported, however, doesn't suit them. Especially since it's pretty clear many of the users are pirating new games before they even release like TotK.
@@tailsspin621 Not *all* of the arguments made against Yuzu can be made against others. Many of the accusations were a lot more directly damning - Testing on unquestionably illegally obtained pre-release copies of games, running a for-profit patreon off the project, and even claims that the reverse engineering wasn't done in a clean room.
Yeah, Nintendo definitely went for them because they considered Switch emulation a direct financial threat in a way they don't for older emulators, no argument there. But if that was all, they'd have done this years ago. They acted now because their lawyers were confident they had a clear cut win.
@@kentonroush perhaps, but the core arguments about DRM are still very threatening. Nintendo is likely confident they can win, but on the off chance they lose it's better to hold back. Yuzu was easier than most because of other factors, I wouldn't argue with that, but don't underestimate their position right now. If they go to court against any emulator that needs to bypass encryptions, they will most likely win, and everything will change.
If Discord is able to just shut down entire servers that people have subscribed to, and are actively paying Nitro for, just because outside parties like Nintendo said so, then I'm just going to cancel Nitro right now, because that basically means that Discord is not protecting the users that pay for it, but are rather doing whatever outside parties with more influence tell them to, and that to me is very dangerous since a lot of people use Discord for all sorts of stuff, from connecting with friends and stuff, to media sharing and streaming, and lot of other functions that you frankly can't get anywhere else in an all in one place.
The fact that you pay for nitro in the first place is stupid. There is zero reason to have it, bigger file size sharing? Ok maybe but still not worth it.
I'm not saying you don't have the right to recieve service that you payed for, but it's fallacy to believe that discord doesn't have a right to control what gets hosted on that platform if that violates the rights of others. It's not stupid to pay for Nitro, but it's a bit misguided to put faith in a entity that logs all your illicit data or activities and will NOT relinquish them to the highest bidder. If your Nitro bucks are more valued, you may have a case, but nintendo's legal pockets run deep.
The main issue is that communities have become to complacent with how they share information. All you need is a email and a phone number and we know exactly who you are and what you've said in the past 20 years.
"If Discord is able to just shut down entire servers that people have subscribed to, and are actively paying Nitro for, just because outside parties like Nintendo said so, "
Conversely, would it be better if Discord dug their heels in the ground and took Nintendo on, highly risking Discord's own destruction? Discord isn't some high status sovereign nation, mind you, and saying that Nitro payers are somehow above all legal matters in Discord sets a worrying precedent.
If you're going to cancel Nitro, just do it because the server is gone, not because the owners of Discord won't risk business-suicide.
@@RippahRooJizah Discord saying no to Nintendo would not have destroyed them, because on those emulation Discord servers its not like the ROMS and stuff were hosted, so there really wasn't a way for Nintendo to do anything to Discord, in the servers you just had people discussing how to improve or troubleshoot emulation, and in many cases its true that people did share a lot of links, some which may have included piracy on them, but at least in the Discord emulation servers that I am a part of such as the one for RPCS3, none of the moderators or admins are the ones that share such links, they only provide links for their official websites where the executables for the emulator can be found, as well as various resources on how to troubleshoot or set everything up, which you could say the servers basically work as a makeshift forum of sorts, and its crazy that years of work and dedication can just be erased because of a decision, and its not only about the work that was lost and stuff, but also the amount of money that had been invested in the servers by people who boosted it and also paid Nitro for, all of that basically went down the drain just because Discord wanted to make Nintendo happy, and its not like Nintendo is the one that was paying for all those subscriptions or anything, it would be one thing if they had actually paid Discord to take the servers down, but I don't think that Discord made any money from doing it, so the only thing that I see is that they lost people's trust, and I think that going forward people may just create an actual forums elsewhere or something.
I understand that companies like CZcams give Nintendo a lot of power too, such as how they are allowed to basically strike down any videos that they feel may be infringing on their rights, but at least on the CZcams platform you can sort of make an appeal and try to fight for your content, and there have been cases where CZcams has sided with the creators instead of big bullies like Nintendo, and that's why people still make videos and stuff in regards to emulation guides and etc in CZcams, they are just somewhat careful not to show 1st party Nintendo games because they know they might get their channel struck, since Nintendo likes claiming copyright on a lot of stuff even on videos that they shouldn't be able to do so, and Nintendo is never going to stop if they keep getting their way like a spoiled child, just because they have money and power.
How I feel like Discord should have handled the situation, was like maybe put a lock on the servers, then check the content that was on it, and if there were links to ROM sharing sites or anything illegal, then maybe cut those out, but doing a full deletion is what bothers me as its just a breach of trust, and demonstrates that Discord won't stick up for the people that use its platform.
@@anires1195nitro is a scam.
I didn't read the channel name and I was thinking "weird how people are clickbaiting with arlo's face" so when I clicked on the video to see what it was about I just got jumpscared by a sudden second channel
Same
Same same.
Epic Rap Battles of History: Doug Bowser vs. Gary Bowser. BEGIN
More Arlo content? I see this as an absolute win.
I'm pretty sure Gary Bowser was picked, just not by Nintendo. He was a fall guy for his company Xecutor. He was the perfect fall guy, not just because of his name, but also because he was the PR person who always posted on the Internet. Officially, Nintendo won that case, but Xecutors Ceos got off scotch free and the millions that Gary Bowser has to pay would not make up for the damages, not that he will ever be able to pay them in the first place.
I feel like I’m a member of arlo’s secret club
I really love the idea of these quick, short discussions. It sounds like a really fun idea! I hope it goes well!!
i think it could be fun to see you talk about some muppet stuff from time to time on here! since this isnt a main channel where you have to worry about the algorithm and people not caring because it isn't gaming related, i'd enjoy seeing some quick vids talking about muppets stuff on occassion
This is not the Discord and Nintendo collaboration I was hoping for :(
Nintendo still sees the emulation scene as basement-dwelling schemers. "You wouldn’t download a car!"
Nintendo sucks ya mook😒
The sad thing is many if not most of us just don't even pirate, buying the game, having a physical copy, and having a digital copy for the emulatoe isn't affecting their bottom line at all. They go after emulators but rarely the sites that host illegal copies of roms.
At least lately they seem keen on taking down emulation as a whole rather than just the illegal copy sites
@@SlavTiger 🧢
@@SlavTiger They do attack rom sites as well with ridiculous punishments. I don't care how much money that Bowser guy made, putting an average man with an average job in this economy millions of dollars in debt, jailing him so he can't find a job and making sure that your multi-billion dollar company gets 30% of his income if he ever does is disgusting to the highest level.
They ruined this guy's life to make an example. That's an evil Disney overlord behavior
As far as I know, Yuzu was promoting Patreon updates for the emulator that worked with games before the official release. As for Suyu, it was based on Yuzu's source code which I think(?) is now owned by Nintendo, so they had free reign to take it down.
So if Nintendo owned the yuzu source code is that why the discord servers got taken down so easily?
This is gonna set a persistent that open source software can't exist GitHub is gonna be gone within a couple months.
They only own the domain yuzu. The code is open source
Nintendo owns the source code NOW, but that does not apply to all source code released PRIOR. That has nothing to do with any of this.
Also, even if Yuzu was 100% paid for, there would be no problem legally as all of their code is original and made to emulate publicly available parts (remember that the Switch is basically an outdated Android tablet with a special OS). The only parts of the system that Nintendo has any ownership over is the branding (irrelevant in this case) and the software, which no Switch emulator to my knowledge comes with and must be sourced from elsewhere.
TL;DR, Nintendo has no legal case. It’s 100% corporate bullying because they know they can. And they did.
Here's the thing everyone is missing about this entire controversy, Suyu came out and shutdown saying the reason was they discovered Yuzu STOLE code from Nintendo's SDK for the switch meaning Yuzu's code is radioactive. It's not that they NOW own Yuzu source code, it's that they ALWAYS owned some of Yuzu's code.
Hey Arlo, there are a lot of nuances to the emulator/piracy argument that you kind of either glossed over or aren't really aware of. specifically, the legal argument Nintendo has constructed against Yuzu (their use of encryption keys making the emulator itself a violation of the DRM provisions of the DMCA), as well as the simple fact that piracy is an essential organ of media preservation, not only in a world where media is digital and locked behind DRM, but historically as well; according to the Video Game History Foundation 87 percent of classic games released in the United States are out of print, and going even further back we only have some of Shakespeare's plays due to people transcribing them to sell or distribute illicitly later on. Piracy has always been an essential organ of preservation, and people who only view it as 'stealing from Nintendo' aren't thinking (or don't care) about the long-term.
I'd be open to having a discussion about this if you need to consult with someone who knows a lot about the topics of emulators, piracy, and media preservation while working on a larger video on the topic.
i get the points you are making but in the eyes of the law, we don't have a right to a preserved copy of anyone's intellectual property.
@@foreignuser_ Why should I give a damn about the "eyes of the law" in this case? If we did, then we wouldn't be pirating these games to begin with.
@@foreignuser_ I, uh. Cool? That was literally my point. What is illegal and what is wrong are not always 1:1, and historically, the only reason we have some pieces of historical culture are BECAUSE people broke the law. It's not that black and white.
@@foreignuser_ The point is, what is legal and what is good or ethical are not always 1:1. See the Shakespeare example I gave. That was illegal! But if nobody did it, us hundreds of years later wouldn't be able to read as many of his plays as we can because they did.
I'm not saying you don't have a point, I'm just trying to show that it will be difficult to use this argument in court and why. I also don't know that you can measure the benefit of a thing on culture and society. We don't know what a world without those preserved Shakespeare plays would have been. Maybe it would have been better.
More things have been lost to time than will ever be saved. We don't know what it would be like in the year 3000 without a preserved copy of Batman Forever, either. I'm sure Warner Brothers isn't worried about it when it comes to defending their IP.
There's been word here recently that Suyu was abandoned mostly because they found traces of the Nintendo switch software development kit (SDK) and it's code. Which could be reason as to why most games run so well on Yuzu.
That actually explains a lot tbh.
This. This is the reason. It isn't that Nintendo now owns Yuzu, it's that they basically always did since the devs stuck Nintendo's own code into the emulator.
@@allensword1855 Nintendo doesn't own Yuzu though, it never went to court, Nintendo owns the name yes, but the code is open source, they can't legally own it.
You shouldn’t pirate any media that can be easily accessed at a current moment
But the unfortunate truth of the matter is that piracy and emulation is currently the only GUARANTEED method for preservation of said media
Video game companies only selling games of their current and previous console generations, media companies taking down streaming exclusives from their streaming services, the amount of lost media would skyrocket if piracy and emulation did not exist
Honestly I disagree.
I've long held about as ethical a stance on emulation as a person can feasibly have. Games that:
• are out of print
• are unavailable in your country
• are near identical to what you already own/have owned in that they have not received substantial content updates since the version you own/ed
• you are demoing or with intent towards future purchase at the price it was when you acquired it
are all fair game. That's how I used to think. It's how I mostly think still.
But more and more we are seeing developers being incredibly toxic and controlling:
• forcing content creators into lopsided legal contracts that gave them the lion's share of the profit for advertising games the content creator legally purchased _(remember that stupid Nintendo Creator's club bs on CZcams for several years?)_
• lock online play behind a subscription service even when they don't have any servers to maintain and it is strictly peer-to-peer connection
• forcing you to repurchase a game you already own with no means of legally carrying the older version over to the newer console, never mind gifting you the higher fidelity version or at least offering a discount code as thanks for supporting the previous console with your support
• trying to monetize fan-created content they never even interacted with
• stealing fan mods and releasing them as part of the official product and then backtracking and replacing it with non-stolen content only after being called out on it
• obnoxious DRM software that punishes legal owners with poorer performance and then lying about it
• forcing even single player games to play online instead of a one time check of whether your copy has a verified code and permanently tying the result of that to your account
• locking something as pettily mundane as cloud saves behind a subscription paywall
• shoving predatory monetization front and center
• secretly adding such monetization after reviews are out or even post-release
• dubiously throwing around the weight of their legal team to destroy fan content and effectively trample Fair Use because nobody has the financial backing to make a legal refutation in court
• literally erase your legal purchases from your legally purchased console
• have corporate staff and shareholders doing everything in their power to make it impossible for consumers to legally own games whatsoever in the first place because they prefer that you pay for entertainment on a continuous subscription model
The list of genuine grievances is longer than that _(I saved everyone the trouble of thinking about how absurdly broken Scarlet & Violet were and whether it's actually even ethical to financially support releases like them for one example),_ but surely it's enough to make my point that it is absurd to treat the interaction in this ecosystem as entirely onboard for one party while the other _at least_ periodically abuses the first and bends the law and enforces non-competitive practices to suit their own whim. The genuine contempt many of these companies clearly hold for the artform and even their own creative teams responsible for creating the products in the first place with wild layoff swings and attempts to embrace predatory trends like NFTs and AI art; well, it very clearly colors one party in this relationship in about as despicable a light as is feasible.
At this point in time I wish for nothing less than the nigh total collapse of the entire triple A gaming landscape so that the excessive corporate politics types can be forcefully cut out of the equation for providing literally nothing of value outside of being overzealous in their venomous search for protecting IP and corporate interests to the sheer detriment of the entire medium.
Anyway, I digress.
We are either quickly approaching or have already arrived at a point where the most ethical means of ownership actually *is* piracy, and at this point it's up to these companies; _not us,_ to emphasize why that is *not* the case. 😮💨
@@StomachPlug I agree with your comment, and it’s a very well written comment at that.
Companies SHOULD care more about media preservation but instead an annoying amount of companies are being anti-art, anti-consumer, and controlling.
As the famous quote goes “ Piracy is an issue of service, not price”.
Counterpoint: I don’t think Nintendo should make money after all they’ve done
Don't make this about piracy. It doesn't need to be. You can and should emulate content that you own (it's yours, after all, and you can use it however you like including running it on something that isn't a Switch.)
If you have an old system, it wouldn't be hard or illegal to find someone to dump the files and compile em. Emulation doesn't equal piracy whatsoever. Arlo owns BOTW and yet here it is emulated in higher res
So similar to Nintendo News Roundup but each segment is its own video?
YEAHHH! I’m definitely getting that vibe as well ^^
I’m soooo in
The reason Yuzu was able to be taken down so easily was that the Yuzu developers were taking money from Patreon for offering a more updated version of Yuzu, illegally profiting off of an emulator.
no that is completely false information, Yuzu did not provide game keys in the emulator the users had to provide their own firmware and keys and had guides for how to dump keys, frimware and games from your own system and it was completely legal.
I'm sorry but yuzu did in fact not contain description keys. You always had to provide them yourself
the Bleem! precedent is that commercial sale of an emulator is perfectly legal. A ruling today might be different, but as of now it is legal
@@extremepayne what was e em the legal reason for the yuzu takedown? I'm puzzled
@@KUIJEN8659 There is none. Yuzu did things that made Nintendo mad enough to come after them, so they got taken down. Nintendo doesn’t have to have an argument that would stand up in court if it never actually goes to court. The threat of legal action is enough to make Yuzu back down
Discord's done a couple things recently that has had me taking a second look at my Nitro subscription.
Lmao buying a nitro subscription was your first mistake
I couldn't care less about the stupid "perks" and customization. I just want bigger filesize limit and better streaming quality.
Yeah the people that run Discord give me the impression that’d they’d totally bend over backwards for any big corporation rather than standing their ground
it's only a matter of time before everyone starts moving to Mastodon or Telegram or something similar. They aren't invincible it may take a lot for people to move elsewhere but people have been switching platforms for quite some time and at some point something publicly owned is going to be the only thing that can hold true to their principles and constantly adapt to the needs of the public without being corrupted.
I am really glad you are doing this and that it’s good for you mentally, I really like the vibe of this channel, great work and glad this channel is here! ⭐️ The name is great btw
if ubisoft says we shouldn't get used to owning games, then piracy isn't illegal.
this has nothing to do with Ubisoft
Who even wants to own Ubisoft games?
Also joking aside, are you on silly pills? Whatever Ubisoft says has no inference on what is or is not legal, and yes Piracy is still Illegal, now you can say that it shouldn't be but that's a statement of ethics and not a very well thought out one at that.
@@blacktainfalcon7097 Even if its not Ubisoft, that is still a issue. Feel like we need laws around that. Though current law makers may make it worse because of gaming companies sending lobbyist out.
@@blacktainfalcon7097 True, but I think the real thing to say is- if buying isn't owning, piracy isn't stealing. This can apply to online only games, games no longer sold, games not even available in your region, etc.
I think one thing that made Nintendo target yuzu was the fact that they were charging for it. Or at least specific versions of it. I believe on their patreon they had a version of the emulator that was better optimized for TOTK before totk even released.
It should also be noted that Ryujinx, another popular switch emulator, is still around and fine.
At this point I would love it if Mods and emulation get legal protection at this point for game preservation being put to priority, we have to push back against corporate greed, it is the reason we can barely afford anything, we can't sustain older games while they withhold older IP and weaponize it reselling it at a higher price just to re access a game you most likely already purchased, and it needs specific legislation for corporations rather than individual artists art, copy right is not a real issue when it comes to large scale corporations to make a profit, most people generally do not pirate if the sale of a product is fairly priced and available on the markets in the first place, Nintendo has ALL those 3Ds games and older games being withheld from their subscription service, and only makes it available slowly to drip feed to justify paying for the NSO expansion pack system, this needs regulated in some way that's fair for everyone. Especially when there is a chance Nintendo might do the unthinkable, actually take away games you buy, not the first time a game industry strips it from you entirely.
I feel that will be pretty hard with how making laws works right now. Game companies will just send lobbyist to get their way on those laws. It happens all the time sadly. Why we don't have electric cars. Gas companies had it pushed back as long as they could. (What i mean by don't have them is they aren't as plentiful as the gas cars)
Arlo talking about beating the algorithm and then the algorithm recommends me this. I haven’t seen Arlo advertising this channel so this was a nice surprise for me
Nintendo can be really gross sometimes. They'll throw their lawyers so easily.
**sees the footage**
Wow, BotW looks amazing upscaled and in 60fps. If the Switch 2 is just this, I would be very happy.
Or Nintendo could start doing PC ports of their older games starting with BOTW
I believe there is some raytracing going on here too. I do wonder what Nintendo would do if they made a game for more powerful hardware.
"Upscaled" would mean that it's scaling the 900p image to 4K.
It is _rendering_ in a higher resolution, and that's not the only changes these mods made! =P
@@DrAnimePhDNintendo will never release their console software on any device that doesn't have their name on it. You may as well ask them to make their own PC or smartphone.
@@Silveraith Uhh…you do know they have s mobile game division and have had one since 2015 right?
Once a new console comes out they will stop fighting emulators. They did it with 3ds and wii , gc
Besides Dolphin appearing on Steam, but that's due to that emulator using several of Nintendo's proprietary keys within the software/emulator.
They banned citra a long with yuzu. And trust me they have tried to get rid of dolphin. They just don’t have legal grounds, luckily yuzu slipped up a bunch legally. That’s they only motive, if it was their choice they would get rid of them all.
Stop fighting Switch emulators*
@@theonewhowrotethis5681Weird how they were specifically upset about Dolphin on steam deck but not dolphin on PC or anywhere else really lol
@@wiltfoster5386 It's not that they're not upset, it's that they have no good way of taking it down. Dolphin isn't managed by a public, legal business, it's just some volunteers and some servers. As it should be.
I’m invested, and I’d love to see you talk more in depth about emulated Nintendo games on your main channel.
im more upset that citra had to shut down as well. im upset that yuzu had to shut down too, but there's other switch emulators like ryujinx, but there wasnt much else in the 3ds emulation space
I’m pretty sure in the case of Yuzu specifically, they were profiting off their emulators via a Patreon (in which they were making 4-5 digits of profit). I think though the thing that Nintendo cared most about was apparently the people running it had BOTW2 available for people to play not only before the official release date, but also behind some form of other paywall.
I appreciate this heads up, I've considered stuff like enabling Discord to show my status on whatever game I'm playing on Citra or etc. Never turned it on because I don't show statuses or even use dc much these days, I almost feel vindicated knowing I'm making a good choice using it less
Wait a sec…is this BotW on an emulator? The lighting is way better than I remember…
Yep, a higher resolution does wonders. For BotW, CEMU is the best option.
Shhh LOL
Lol I was about to say lol
Trashtendo and their garbage consoles.
@@esko911Loving your censored sony games?
I loved this video. Just casual chatting about a fascinating topic surrounding stuff I'm interested in -- definitely subscribing and staying tuned in for more! Thanks Arlo! :)
I see potential lawsuits ":D
Sure, you can have terms of service, but if your terms of service fall outside of the law, your terms of service are not valid.
Discord almost certainly has legal right to shut down nearly whatever it feels like on its platform 😅
I am in fact a fan of you talking about stuff, and I sure as heck don’t care what you talk about or where, so I’m definitely showing up 👍
(But also yes a full length video on emulation would be fantastic)
Didn’t know you made a new channel!!! CZcams recommended it to me tho, so that’s a plus.
When I said i wanted discord with Nintendo i didnt have this in mind...
Anyway congrats on thr new channel. Makes perfect sense why you made it. Gonna try and keep up with every video
Down to see a big video on the differences between emulation and piracy, where emulation stands now, and what its future looks like.
I'm so sick of corporations deciding how we can enjoy their products. And it's wild because companies have their day in court and lost about emulation legality and it's incredibly disheartening that all that needs to happen now is threatening legal action because you can't afford to fight it in court even though you would win!!! Yes yuzu screwed up royally... But that doesn't mean suddenly it's open season for all emulators
The sad thing is that you'll have a better experience with a switch emulator than with the official hardware, I think that really does say something. And the fact they keep taking everything down is the most childish thing they can do.
This is awesome!!! You’re my inspiration for my channel Arlo!
That’s awesome man! Your stuff looks great I wish you best - new subscriber
i’m glad you’re doing something that is good for ur overall wellbeing
Just subbed to your new channel Arlo, I can't wait to watch this one grow!!!! :D
Could you add a podcast playlist with all the videos from this channel people can just auto-download in YT Music and listen in the background?
Glad that you’re making these kinds of videos, Arlo, especially if it helps you out creatively and mentally.
On the topic, though, I think it’d be great to have an official video on your main channel talking about the differences between piracy and emulation as well as telling us your thoughts on how you think Nintendo as a company ought to engage with the emulation community. I’d like to hear all that, but maybe this is a case of me being greedy, haha.
More Arlo is always welcome!
And... I'm passionate about this topic.
If you ever used a video game sprite in one of your projects - chances are the person who ripped that sprite used an emulator.
If you look at websites like Super Mario Wiki and Bulbapedia - most of their screenshots are taken from emulators.
Speedrunners rely on emulators for research and glitch hunting.
Fan translations, mods and rom hacks mostly exist thanks to emulators. You may not need one to play them, but you certainly need one to make them.
Entire CZcams channels like Boundary Break or Vinesauce's corruptions thrive on the existence of emulators.
And so on.
None of these examples have anything to do with piracy. It's crazy to think about how much of the Nintendo community at large wouldn't exist, or would be a fraction of its current self, if Nintendo got their way. So yeah, I'm eternally grateful to the devs behind emulators, and it sucks that Nintendo is going after them.
Even your private chats aren't encrypted.
I would bet money Discord wants to have some Switch 2 connectivity and Nintendo threatened a deal if they didn’t take down these servers
Please make a Full Length Video about your thoughts on Piracy!
Could’ve been an Arlocast
One day it shall return...we must be patient
Beep Block Skyway without the beeps, devilish deed, my friend 😡😂
The first episode always feels like history in the making.
Enjoyed this! Wanted to leave a comment saying as much c:
Cheers, Arlo!
Moon channel did a great video on the yuzu subject, he's a lawyer and he gave his legal opinions / analysis on the whole topic.
In short: In Nintendo's lawsuit they were preparing to argue against the legality of emulation itself, using untested legal arguments that are frighteningly solid.
well then, people need to strike first with the opposing argument.
It's only solid because everyone simps for DRM, the worst thing to happen to technology in the past fifty years. Too few people railed against DRM in the early-mid 2000s, and everyone else tried to tell them that they were being unreasonable. They weren't, it's pretty simple- you should be able to do whatever the hell you please with stuff that you own.
@@colbyboucher6391 I’m with you, section 1201 of the DMCA needs to go, but it sadly probably wont
@@colbyboucher6391regardless of any ethical beliefs, the law is the law and the argument is very solid legally. It's a good thing this didn't go to court, because the precedent could have been devastating.
@@kukukachuthere really isn't a good opposing argument legally speaking. The law being cited likely makes the unauthorized circumnavigation of Nintendo's anti pirecy measures illegal, and you can't play switch games on an emulator without doing that regardless of if they're pirated. If you watch Moon's video, you'll realize there isn't a cheeky loophole, and while it's not a perfect fit other similar but cases have been won on similar arguments
Subbed! Excited for more arlo content
whilst emulators themselves aren't illegal the Yuzu team advertised their emulator using pictures of Nintendo games and they made some fixes to specific games (like botw), an emulator developer should never show pirated games running on the emulator, they should've just say "it's so that homebrew developers can test their software on a PC" or something like that
The line between emulation and piracy is two different shades of grey, and it's blurry.
No, it is black and white. There are those who pirate roms and emulate them, and those who legally obtain roms via games they own. Emulation is not piracy, piracy is piracy.
@@lightninng0to be fair I would never buy Nintendo games so pirating them is the best choice
Moon channel _(Yeah, the same one)_ has a really good video about the Yuzu situation. The devs really messed up. They were _very much so_ doing sketchy stuff. They also stole Ryujinx code in the past.
Maybe it's to complicated for yuzu to make their own code inspired by Nintendo Tech?🤔
either way their shortcut cost them Big Time!
don't get the wrong idea I support emulation 110% but as said they used stolen code so they kinda had it coming😕
@@Big-Mic7878 Ryujinx is the other most popular Switch emulator. The Yuzu devs stole from their own emulation community. That's scummy.
The main reason they were gonna lose in court is because they had a downloadable version of Yuzu *_with the keys you're supposed to get by yourself_* behind a Patreon paywall, which also had a custom patch to play Tears of the Kingdom before it even came out. Then they went and started announcing it everywhere.
Ryujinx also has a Patreon, but they don't paywall any _"upgraded"_ version of the emulator, they don't let you download their emulator with the aforementioned keys, and they don't go around telling people to play a non-released game on their emulator using their exclusive fixes that you have to pay for.
I hold no sympathy for the Yuzu devs. They were morons asking to get into trouble.
@@vivi1649 Wow, now that's unbelievable smh😞
@@vivi1649 There was a text allegedly made by one of the Suyu devs that mentions the original code having pieces of the official Nintendo Switch SDK in it. If this is true, then no wonder Nintendo went after Yuzu and not Ryujinx.
Just wanted to say, the main reason the developers of the Switch emulator was taken down is bc they were making money off of it via their Patreon.
im not sure if that's inherently the case, i remember hearing about how they had totk fixes locked behind patreon before the game released which obviously would cause issues, but then again i remember trying super mario bros wonder on switch emulators when it was leaked and it didnt work on yuzu so idk.
@@tgirltouhouthat's a lie nintendo made for a stronger case.
TotK only worked by 3rd party ppl's own mods & fixes, like from Reddit
@@Mystachi Ironically Ryujinx was the emulator that had ToTK running 2 weeks before launch.
@@megaman37456 I'm sure Ryujinx needed same mod fixes like Yuzu tho.
I remember reading Yuzu had a big problem with the depths at least.
it would crash often.
Even I needed those 3rd party fixes.
when I tried it, after game release.
But maybe Ryujinx, was a bit better.
as both emu's got different strong sides.
Like Ryujinx always ran Age of Calamity better than Yuzu.
@@Mystachi Considering Ryujinx was running ToTK 2 weeks before launch and Yuzu wasn't, I seriously doubt that's the case.
Love Arlo's pov on gaming news so this is awesome!
It’s one of those things where it’s like “Ugh” but it’s understandable at the same time
I like the idea of a “daily” Arlo channel, hope it works out!
I don't care for the profits lost by major companies like Nintendo, but am concerned for the developers and the series. I doubt that one pirated game directly correlates to one missed sale since someone might pirate a game they are curious about because it's easier and less committal than purchasing a game, but for small developers or new series those figures might mean a lot. The most ethical use of emulation and pirating is for media that either isn't accessible anymore or isn't reasonably accessible. I'm not shelling out $200 for an old game on Ebay that isn't on a traditional digital market if pirating is an option. Plus if it's the only way for people to experience great games then they should go for it
I hope that this means that more emulator projects start adopting Matrix spaces and rooms instead of Discord servers. Plenty of other open-source projects already use it and Element (Client that uses Matrix) in particular is an awesome Discord alternative. Matrix rooms are harder to go after. It's decentralized after all.
“I can just-I can just end it right here! *it ends*
Arlo entering his Alpharad Plus era, i see. Arlo Plus
Eventually Ni tendo is going to threaten someone who either has deeper pockets, or has nothing left to lose
Heres a question, is it okay that i own a game but my emulator stopped working for some reason and i dont know how to fix it, so i downloaded a ROM to play the game ?
Misread this as "Tropic Arlo" and was really hoping it was about traveling or something
Same. It really didn’t help that there’s a palm tree in the banner
This BoTW footage looks like the first reveal video, cool mod
id love to see ya make a video on emulation!
This would virtually be a non issue for Nintendo if they made a console that played a game at a framrate higher than 15 fps
This is like sueing somebody for developing VLC cause it can be used to play pirated movies
im surprised Hollywood hasn’t done this. music industry did this with numerous file sharing services
It’s a mixed bag cuz emulating old systems is ight but a system that’s still currently being sold wit new games coming out is a different story
Oooh! More Arlo talk!? I love it!🤩
I would definitely love to hear you talk about the ethical ramifications of emulation and the difference between it and piracy. I always have a hard time explaining to people why it's not a bad thing, but then again i question myself on whether or not it's a bad thing.
a big reason why people are downloading games illegally is nintendo’s security measures make it very hard for the average layman to dump their own games and even then that’s for the earlier revision switches and the lite that can be modded
Yayyy more Arlo content ^^
Return of Nintendo news roundup???? Maybe just “topic roundup???” I’m fully in regardless
I suspect Discord is going to do crappier and crappier things until (and once) they are public.
Hello Tarlo nice to meet you.
Just for some clarification, Nintendo's argument was that Switch emulators violate copyright law because the games have built-in protections that necessarily must be circumvented to play them on a different device. So while emulation itself may not be inherently illegal, Nintendo successfully argued that _Switch emulation_ is because of how it has to work.
The 2% risk of them ruining emulation forever by going to court would have been terrifying.
A few days late to your late conversation 😂 but I’m curious about your thoughts on delta coming to the apple App Store! Emulation has been big in the past few days because of that. Do you think Nintendo will do anything about it?
honestly, i kinda am nervious about the discord part. the thing is if a company can pressure discord like that, who's to say that doesn't erode the platform's ability to handle matters it's own way if multiple companies start using whatever happened as a power button. i really hope this is a one off situation, and doesnt mark a trend.
i think an emulation platform of an actively supported console is just going to be more problematic then say any sorta platform used to pirate wii u/3ds games that would otherwise be lost so fair enough that nintendo would take a particular intrest.
FIRST :) hey arlo
You got it, congratulations
I was about to say we should just not buy Nintendo’s next big game as a form of protest but then I remembered that the next big game is the Paper Mario Thousand Year Door Remake and there’s literally no one on the planet who is willing to not buy that
Have to wonder how much the download of emulators increases after a story like this.
Like panic buying “what if I want it later on and it isn’t available anymore, aaaah!”
A good topic to start off the channel hope it's a hit regardless of the almighty algorithm
hey there new here and main channel fan of yours for awhile expect to see me a lot of me here if the topic fits Subbed
and see you next time 👋🙂
...
I suppose I should say something about the emulation situation, not going to lie it's bleak Nintendo comes from a Wack-A-Mole like culture so they won't stop until it's taken care of
and by that it means they wack those moles and they're good at keeping them down
our best chance for survival is to have a few hang around to win (if at all😰)
Yuzu was taking money for their services so they are very far from “doing nothing wrong”
I wish Nintendo would give us options like putting games on pc or adding mod support instead of going the route of suing everyone. I would happily pay to play my Nintendo games on PC if i could, seems like a miss opportunity for Nintendo to me. It would be controversial ,but I'm sure plenty of people would even pay to add mod support to their games.
not quite the same but I've seen discord servers call out an online pikmin fangame a lot and they've gotten it taken down multiple times
So basically, who is right is completely unclear and the big takeaway is that there is no _law_ law that says Emulation is legal. Like, a law passed by a legislative body like congress explicitly allowing it. The thing we're all relying on is case law/legal precedent - meaning that previously, there was a lawsuit over it and the court ruled that it was okay. That means that if there is another lawsuit and the judge feels like it, they could overturn that ruling and decide that emulation is NOT okay instead. Generally, courts try not to do that without a good reason, they try to keep everything consistent as much as possible. But if Nintendo could argue that this situation is different enough from the previous situation, the end result could very well also be different.
Who is legally in the right and wrong here is almost entirely up to the interpretation of the court and inherently unclear, lacking real concrete legislation either way. Basically, it's the judge's opinion who's right and not much else.
To a degree it very much was Nintendo won because they're bigger, a lot of what their lawsuit said was utter nonsense. But they had a few bits of ammunition that gave them a solid chance to win, and Yuzu's legal case was shaky enough that they very possibly could have lost. Especially their attitude and behavior in the things they'd said online, they were kinda being dicks about it and that would not have endeared them to the judge. Had they gone to court anyway, and lost to Nintendo's massive legal team, it could set a _new_ precedent that emulators are illegal and overturn the previous case law for everyone. They weren't confident enough to risk it and had to fold.
Nintendo's big trump card here was the use of decryption keys. Most videogames made in the last 20 years come encrypted, and need cryptographic keys on the console to decrypt them to play as a copy protection measure. Emulators also use the cryptographic keys to decrypt the roms. Nintendo argues that decrypting the encrypted game files counted as circumventing DRM, which is illegal and makes Yuzu a circumvention tool, breaking the DMCA. Whether legally that makes Yuzu a circumvention tool is untested in court and could have gone either way, Nintendo could be right or they could be wrong, we don't know until a court decides. We prefer not knowing, it'd suck if the court sides with Nintendo. It's real risky, we have a good thing going right now and everyone prefers not to test it.
whats the game being played in the background?
Good topic for discussion 👍
338th! Booyaka!
Can't wait to partake in more Arlo goodness! Congrats on the new channel!
Anyone know what the cool background music is from or what what it is called?