Maybe I’m just over-sensitive... but it seems to me that Stevie was stonewalling and being totally (and sulkily) unappreciative, in the face of Lindsey’s suggestion. He was very diplomatic and quite gentle in his approach. Of course she’s entitled to disagree, but what an arrogant way of doing that! What’s much more disappointing is that in a separate interview, she described this very incident as Lindsey being very nasty with her! Whaaaaat? I now don’t trust ANY of her comments on Lindsey.
@@judyward5341 i kind of agree with you; she had this interest in mick fleetwood who i always found a bit creepy & childish & admitted himself he was always handing out "happy pills" to everyone so i think a lot of minds were screwed up by drugs; the music is undeniable but Lindsay was the driving force behind the quality production & has been nothng but slagged off by mick fleetwood for it; i think Stevie is angry she lost Lindsay & she was hitting out; that's my thinking anyway!
Wish Rolling Stone magazine would stop kissing Stevie’s butt and behave like a genuine music reviewer, in which case they’d have to acknowledge Lindsey’s... - Songwriting - Vocal talent (never off key) - Guitar virtuosity - Arrangements of EVERYONE’S songs in Fleetwood Mac - Final production and technical skills Given all those incredible gifts, plus extraordinary good looks, you’d think they’d all be falling over themselves to pay tribute. But no... Ooh - just realised - it’s obviously pure envy on their part! Some spotty-faced journo watching Lindsey, and crying into his beer that life’s just not fair.
Judy Ward - I totally agree! Whereas Alanis Morrisette (sp lol) wrote ‘Jagged Little Pill’ at age 19 & she didn’t have a bf bring her along in an already established band.. plus Ann Wilson I think still outsings Stevie.. I kinda got away from Rolling Stone for awhile.. to much on pop boy-bands for awhile..
I noticed that Lindsay was communicating very well. I really enjoy the way he speaks and the way he sounds when he speaks. He's very talented in everything he does.
It’s obvious to me when I listen to this song that Stevie basically wanted to show two different perspectives on this song. First verse was written in third person as a narrative. She is telling the story of them from an outsiders perspective. The second verse it switches to her directly speaking to him and then it goes into her speaking to herself and then back to telling the story as a narrator. How can anyone not see that? This song is quite awesome because of that dynamic.
"When you say 'Now you're going home' who are you talking to? I'm talking to YOU!" Haha. I love how they still write songs about each other. They fight like a married couple. :)
I love how straight up she is when he asks "Who are you talking about?" and looks hims right in the eyes and says. "I'm talking to you!" Love Stevie sooo much.
True. Though I think Lindsey and Stevie are different tyoes of songwriters. Lindsey is the one that likes to stick to logic and rules, he's sort of strict in that. Stevie is the free spirit, she writes what she wants to and she doesn't let rules hold her back. I think the combination is both what makes it work most of the time. They keep each other in balance.
I don't know why it took me so long to listen to it, probably because I didn't know Lindsey was back on it. It's an outstanding album, right up there with the very best, I love Mirage but I think it might edge it, although the production on Say You Will isn't as crisp as the Mirage era
I so agree. Actually I woukd've loved to have been a fly on the wall during the whole period of recording. And on the dance tour. Well actually with anything they ever did. Lindsey and Stevie are so fascinating to watch.
Lindsey was just suggesting. That's the way they work together. When I first heard the song and heard the tense change it seemed alittle off, so I understand Lindsey's point of view. In the end, nothing changed. I see nothing wrong with discussing the matter. Stevie is strong enough now, she can handle Lindsey.
As the producer, it's his job to ask questions and make suggestions. He'd be negligent if he didn't. In the end, the lyrics remained the same, but not wrong for him to bring it up any more than it's wrong for her to push to keep the lyrics as they were.
I know Stevie really doesn't like Say You Will, but I think that it is the best FM album since Tusk, especially featuring Buckingham/Nicks together. I certainly think SYW has some of her very best songs on it, this one in particular.
The Best song on the album and one of the best songs in several decades. Brilliant. Thank You! It deserves more radio play which I did not hear. Sad, Beautiful song.
They oh so still love each other. I think neither one knows how to say it, admit and deal with it. They say it through song and hurt each other in person.
I'm only 42, and I was only a toddler, when they were on the road, but now I've got 12 albums of Fleetwood, and Stevie Nicks, I've finally found my idol/icons! Rock on Stevie! Love you too! Lindsey you're so handsome! 💜💯👌🙋
Melanie Herbert good for you, melanie! I love stevie and the mac too. I saw them at 7 yrs old for the first time and have been under their spell ever since. So awesome you discovered them and love them a whole bunch too. Peace, love and music. 🎶☺🎵
Really cool to see them go through the creative process. Stevie is being a bit defensive, but I think she really wants Lindsay's opinion, if not his approval.
I find this clip hilarious for so many reasons, but Stevie trying to come up with a PC explanation of how this is about their relationship, and then Lindsey being like, Yes, it's totally weird singing about myself just takes the cake. Oh, Lindsey, don't you remember "Go Your Own Way," "Silver Springs," "Dreams" and the DOZENS of other songs in the FM canon? You've both been writing and singing about your dysfunctional relationship for decades...
No, she's not a Bob Dylan. But she is Stevie Nicks and her history of hits and poetic lyrics speaks for themselves. She didn't even need to have that discussion, despite him wanting to be helpful. But she's right, you wouldn't say that to Bob Dylan. And now you know, you don't say that Stevie Nicks, either.
It annoys me when people slate Lindsey for just stating his opinion, Stevie states her opinion on Lindsey's songs and nobody blinks an eye lid! I love them both and agree with them both! I am personally a bigger fan of Lindsey... Within Fleetwood Mac and his solo stuff:)
It totally annoys me as well. I love them both and was a huge Stevie fan but the bottom line is, she would not be here if it wasn't for Lindsey. It appears on this documentary that he is trying to be as cautious and sensitive as he possibly could in his suggestions to Stevie. He seems to be walking on egg shells for fear that she will freak out. . If you have ever seen her "In your Dreams" documentary, she speaks of what we see here and makes it seem like Lindsey was attacking her. She seems to hold on to her grudges way too long ( like 30 years too long).
Hold on to her grudges way too long? Man! I thought I was the only one to think that. I've wondered whether she is deliberately not participating in Fleetwood Mac to spite Mick.
I think it would be more to spite Lindsey more so than Mick. she seems to have a good relationship with Mick and also with Christine. IT's Lindsey she cant seem to rid herself of the grudge. Personally, i think a big reason why she is not participating with Fleetwood Mac on their new album is because she may have lost the ability to write new songs on a consistent level. If you look at the timeline of new songs from Stevie, it was before Tango in the Night when she wrote a chunk of new material. Basically the cocaine years. Since then she has written very few new songs for each new project and relied on old material to fill up an album as well as material co-written with someone else (usually where she writes the lyrics and the other person writes the music). It seems like, for her, no coke = lack of creativity = no new songs. It may be that we will never see her record with the Mac again but she may tour. Add to that, she seems to be extremely emotional (holding on to grudges for 30 YEARS etc)and a bit of a narcissist. It also seems like she surrounds herself with nothing but "yes" people. That is, her people will stroke her ego where as Fleetwood Mac will not. Im sure she thinks her solo music is better than what she makes with Fleetwood mac. I think her music with the Mac is magic and her solo stuff is hit and miss. Add to that her fan base views her as a goddess that can not do any wrong. I mean , holding a grudge for over 30 years just isn't normal. Man, i am probably going to get a lot of hate for posting this. Yikes!!
No hate here fundies2. You are spot on. To me..Lindsey is a perfectionist,that's why (again my opinion) his music with Fleetwoodmac and his Solo work is great. I think she could be arrogant and not have the patience to record and album that could take a year and sound great where as he does. They were a couple years ago etc... whatever. Fights,tension ..we all go through it.
Love the way Stevie mentions Dylan. I was thinking about Bob as soon as I heard them talking about tenses. Switching tenses adds a bit of an ethereal or abstract quality to a song. Afterall, song writing isn't English Composition 101. Sometimes I think these two never stayed together because they overanalyzed the intricacies of their relationship. But analysis and perception, in part, is what makes them both legends.
Problem is, "you can't say that about Bob Dylan" is what's called a straw-man argument, which means even if you can't name it, you still sense that it's a bogus comment. And yes, I realize it probably was a reference to Dylan's Tangled Up In Blue, reflected against his popularity and recognized expertise in composing.
Being the poet she is and having the stature as a songwriter at that time (ca. 2003, with the release of Say You Will) since the Buckingham/Nicks album (not to mention the songs written between 1969 and 1973, some of which are on 24 Karat Gold), Stevie is certainly entitled to defend her lyrics and to "write what she wants to", in my opinion. Language, certainly in poetry, is like a living organism which tends to evolve. One can bend and shape it at will. The poetess Stevie Nicks always tries to explore new territory in poetic language and she will forever seek to expand and stretch the boundaries of that language.
I have the unpopular opinion that Stevie's voice has gotten even better as she got older. I read all the time about live clips that "yeah her voice is not as good as it was but she still sounds great" and I think WTF it's better stronger and I think more controlled. But I'm always told I'm an idiot to think that.
Go to her 24 Karat Gold tour THEN come to us about her voice. Here's a clue: Her voice was absolutely amazing and strong and she did an AMAZING job. Even during her worst vocal moments (which most artists have periodically), she still has incredible talent.
Ah, there you go. That last sentence: "My opinion." Opinion does not equal fact. YOU may think her voice is shot, but that doesn't mean it's true. &&& of course her voice has changed! Yes, she lost some of her range. Does that mean she should hang up her cloak and call it a day? Please!! Stevie is no longer 28. She is no longer 32. Her voice is not the same strength is was during her Tusk era or the Bella Donna era (which IMO was her strongest). She's 68 years old and can *still* blow her fans away -- read the reviews of her most recent tour! Just because she doesn't "hit the high notes" (like you feel she should be able to do despite everything) doesn't negate her star power, her spirit, her showsmanship, or her longevity. We all know the history of her life and the factors that affected her voice: the drugs, the exhaustion, the over-exertion night after night, the rumors of dissolving Tylenol or whatever and injecting it causing acidic PND, smoking, partying/drinking, stress, and age. Yet despite it all, her voice is still beautiful and capable of a variety of range and expressions. I don't know why people expect her to have the same vocal range, abilities and sounds that she did when she was in her youth and prime!
You want to hear her sing, you say??? Why? So you can criticize and condescend her voice? Oh yeah -- you suuuuure "out-fan" me! I know MANY people who have been hardcore fans for her entire career and like true fans, they understand *why* her voice has changed and are still able to appreciate and love her and her matured voice, even as it has changed over the many years. So please -- spare me with your "my friends said she's unlistenable." Fairweather fans are the ones who only want her at her prime and tell her to "bow out gracefully" when they don't think she meets their standards. When you're 68 and still belting out tunes and putting on an amazing show, let me know! Otherwise, your opinion is just that -- a shitty opinion!
What a sad person you must be that you think because you've been a fan "longer" and because you've clearly stalked Stevie's life (going to her house, really?! That's a bit disturbing -- no wonder she has to be so careful!), that your OPINION somehow trumps others! Just because you've decorated your house in Stevie stuff doesn't automatically mean you are a bigger or more loyal fan than -- especially if you're essentially reporting that she should "hang it up." Sounds like you're a fan who never acknowledged why things changed for Stevie, you just share a nasty opinion and therefore seem to fall flat of a "die-hard" fan, more like a "I only like Stevie when her voice meets my standard and she hasn't been good in X years so she should go away because she's be greedy." By the way, she definitely doesn't need the money, so saying it's a money-grab is ludicrous -- she deserves to go out and have fun and sing songs that are important to her. You sound like a person from The Ledge. By the way, I actually agree with some of your points -- i.e., the remasters being perfect, that the 24 Karat Gold album should have at LEAST included the original demos and outtakes (which I know and have as well), that Ann Wilson has a spectacular voice, and that the high-priced VIP packages should include meet-and-greets. However, more power to Stevie for doing her after aaaaaallll these years. Obviously, you and your ilk who think "Stevie should stop because she sounds terrible" (because considering her past including having nodules removed from her vocal cords and the extreme strain on her vocals by years of nonstop, grueling tours with no vocal rest means nothing to your snobby thoughts) are a VERY small group because she is selling seats like crazy, getting rave reviews, selling merchandise so fast that they can't keep up, have people petitioning for her to do another leg of her solo tour across the US and worldwide & are saying they have no desire to see or hear any new FM material without her! She's 68 and STILL got it....and all you've got is a room full of merchandise of a person you say should stop singing and a big mouth on social media. Who is really winning here?!
I am going to publish a clip of her singing with Sheryl Crow as Sheryl plays keyboards in the living room t in a couple weeks. It completes validates what you said. Her raw abilities are mind blowing and the fact that she can go home on a weekend and write two of the most amazing songs you'll ever here while playing with her dogs. Thats real talent...
I think this is one of the songs Stevie stopped caring about because she didn’t like the final product. I wish they kept the ‘question and answer’ vibe in the chorus with the echoing ‘thrown down’ part. This is an amazing song. Anyone else wish they’d perform it live?
You know what's funny is that I didn't notice the tense difference that Lindsey brings up - until I watched the video!! It's definitely not "correct" as Lindsey points out (and I love them both, so I'm not taking sides) but I think Stevie's point is valid that the listener will just 'get it.' Great song - and awesome to watch them create.
why is she not in the music hall a fame as a solo artist is beyond me. yea she is with the mac but why not solo too.she is truly an icon to the female music industry( that is gut wreching to listen too even without instruments) my favorite song off syw album
Lindsey @4:21 : "I'm just saying that it's sort of a rule of thumb in writing that you don't shift your tense and your person." Stevie @4:29 : "Well I don't think that you could say that to Bob Dylan." Lindsey's thought bubble @ 4:32 : "B*tch, please..."
@@jayannakelley9051 I feel the unreal amount of hits she has written, being called a "spoiled brat" is unwarranted. Knows what she wants and has fierce tenacity to have it done her way. Not spoiled, just a total empowered badass. Her way works and she knows it.
@@aakar88 - Well she’s definitely extremely lucky. Lindsey arranging their self-titled album & with his insistence lands in an already established band. I wonder if she’d been that lucky if she moved there on her own 🤷♀️ Ah well.. I haven’t ever been an over the top FM fan anyway..They were a good pop band tho.
I can understand Lindsey's point here, although I love the way Stevie writes as it is. She does shift back and forth between first, second, and third person in this song, so I can see his reason for bringing it up as an idea for her...but I do agree that the song as great as it is. I just hate the version that's on SYW...I think the "wall of sound" version is soooooooo much stronger.
The only thing I have to add to this absurd debate on tense in relation to this documentary/ advertisement is who the F cares what Bob Dylan would say or think. I guarantee you that he surely wouldn’t give a rats ass.
Lindsey’s just giving his opinion ( it’s not to criticize) because Stevie appreciates his musical talent. But then again Stevie has had a successful career on her own. She can take or leave his input. It’s good neither take it personally it’s just talking about lyrics.
Her success is largely owed to the production efforts of others. Including Lindsey. She can sing, she can write lyrics, but even she has admitted that it's others, including Lindsey, who take those bits of lyrics and craft them into full songs.
Defensive Deafness, comes up in every couple's interaction. Doesn't matter if your point was made in consideration of the other's professional image, or well-being, or whatever, it's seen as criticism and an attempt to overbear.
"You can´t change that because its beautiful." That's a truth in its own right. Writing lyrics is not about making sense in the first place. Find words that sound good when you sing them. Think about the meaning later. Not saying that the meaning is not important, but the flow has a higher priority.
This was really interesting to see how they create their songs and Stevie really sticks to her guns when it comes to her songs that she's written..and love that view of the outside of the house at the very end..was it Lindsey's house?? keep on rockin Stevie
This wasn't at his house. This is a house FM rented for seven months to record Say You Will. That's why you see them loading up the studio gear toward the end, to return it most likely to Lindsey's actual home studio.
Wouldn't call it a drama queen. He is just very stuck to what he thinks is right I guess. He likes to stick to rules and guidelines, Stevie is a free spirit that does whatever she wants and how she wants it. That gives a bit of a clash sometimes.
Wasn't she living with Jimmy during Bella Donna? Nevertheless that rolls be typical -- she's strong but too emotional and defensive.. she's always been one to speak through managers, attorneys, etc. rather than directly address a discomfort.
I think she took the criticism very well. She listened to his suggestions and she didn’t want to change the poem. At least they didn’t get into a knock down drag out fight on camera.
Joseph Forman She seemed to take it well at the time... but I saw another documentary in which she described how Lindsey had ‘taken issue with her’ and been ‘really nasty’ in this very incident. Yet we can see how hard he tried to be diplomatic. Very very unfair of her, if not deliberately twisting the truth. Or maybe she just likes to see herself as a victim, with any disagreement perceived as an attack. Pathetic. And makes me wonder about the truth of other remarks she’s made about Lindsey.
Yes mam, stand back Lindsay. It is awesomeand yet a little sad to see 2 people who will always love each other but cannot be together as a "couple" if you will. Stevie had to live her own life, and Lindsay's will never be able to have a partner who doesn't need him 24/7. He has missed out on a true love if you ask me. I bet no one tells him how to write a song..or play the guitar ..
Some of the comments regarding either of their egos seem somewhat petty, personally. Dylan's often lauded as one of the greatest song writers in general, Stevie, too, in her own ways has made her own mark in the genre, and at the time this was filmed and recorded more than 20yrs had passed between Rumours and their impact on Rock & Roll history and being aware of the magnitude of each of their own rockstar statuses. Enough time and enough success had passed for Stevie to know her worth and her place in the music industry to have defended her own songwriting choices, I mean... 20yrs after Bob Dylan's own success nobody should have question his song writing. Let's not forget, it was Stevie's song "Dreams" that was sang and written by her that was Fleetwood Mac's biggest hit. Not to knock Lindsey's own record with songwriting, but additionally... even Stevie's career as a solo artist commercialy eclipsed Lindsey's. With all that said, I think it's safe to say she knows what she's doing when it comes to writing a song.
Her solo career was schlocky 80s wank. Yeah I'm sure Buckingham thought "Bwana" was going to be a big hit. He never went the commercial angle, he has too much integrity.
Perpetual.Art - Well we all know how this has all played out.. after years of Lindsay doing the actual WORK of arranging & producing bringing out the best of FM.. Stevie throws her usual temper tantrums & Lindsey fired from the band she wouldn’t have even been in without him.. I really don’t care about any ‘hate’ that’ll come my way.. That was a bullshit thing to do.. Period!
She resents the fact that he doesnt treat her as a diva. He never became one of her yes people. She wrote some good songs. But without his arrangements and producing she would be nowhere.
Oh i would say she had some fairly successful multi platinum albums without lindsey’s involvement and got inducted in the rock and roll hall of fame for it twice as the only women out of 22. But you can believe whatever pleases you to believe. It won’t affect you and it certainly won’t affect stevie 😝
Wow, Stevie in this comes off as really resistant to suggestions in this in regard to Lindsay's suggestions as far as the lyrics go...not sure if that is a control thing that both of them have...you know though, when collaborating, you can't just roll over every time someone suggests something...the suggestion really has to have merit to really making the song way better...but in their interaction, when she walled up, he knew she was taking a stand, and was really nice on how he chose his words with her, as to not come off as critical force, but simply suggestive, like seeing a friend with their hair messed up a little bit in a way that it's bugging you, and you tell them, "hey, um, your hair is a li'l different"...and they are like "hey, man, I intentionally did that", and you are like "well, if it wasn't intentional, I wouldn't be a very good friend if I didn't say something" kind of deal...uncomfortable for both parties...hey, thanks for posting this insight...
"Well I don't think that you could say that to bob dylan" and lindsey immidiately shuts up lol. This is why I love stevie so much is because nobody fucks with her its great
their interaction really is like an old married couple, just beautiful
Maybe I’m just over-sensitive... but it seems to me that Stevie was stonewalling and being totally (and sulkily) unappreciative, in the face of Lindsey’s suggestion. He was very diplomatic and quite gentle in his approach. Of course she’s entitled to disagree, but what an arrogant way of doing that!
What’s much more disappointing is that in a separate interview, she described this very incident as Lindsey being very nasty with her! Whaaaaat? I now don’t trust ANY of her comments on Lindsey.
@@judyward5341 i kind of agree with you; she had this interest in mick fleetwood who i always found a bit creepy & childish & admitted himself he was always handing out "happy pills" to everyone so i think a lot of minds were screwed up by drugs; the music is undeniable but Lindsay was the driving force behind the quality production & has been nothng but slagged off by mick fleetwood for it; i think Stevie is angry she lost Lindsay & she was hitting out; that's my thinking anyway!
@@morningsnoopy Well put. Totally agree.
You can see in his face, Lindsay wants so badly to say, "You're not Bob Dylan" haha
Can we all just give Lindsey the credit he deserves for actually being a first rate producer & arranger on these albums?
or for simply writing all the music behind Stevie's melody and lyrics?
Tango In The Night - That also 🌟
And for trying despite an obvious uphill battle arising out of defensive deafness depicted in this video.
Wish Rolling Stone magazine would stop kissing Stevie’s butt and behave like a genuine music reviewer, in which case they’d have to acknowledge Lindsey’s...
- Songwriting
- Vocal talent (never off key)
- Guitar virtuosity
- Arrangements of EVERYONE’S songs in Fleetwood Mac
- Final production and technical skills
Given all those incredible gifts, plus extraordinary good looks, you’d think they’d all be falling over themselves to pay tribute. But no...
Ooh - just realised - it’s obviously pure envy on their part! Some spotty-faced journo watching Lindsey, and crying into his beer that life’s just not fair.
Judy Ward - I totally agree! Whereas Alanis Morrisette (sp lol) wrote ‘Jagged Little Pill’ at age 19 & she didn’t have a bf bring her along in an already established band.. plus Ann Wilson I think still outsings Stevie.. I kinda got away from Rolling Stone for awhile.. to much on pop boy-bands for awhile..
"I didn't think it was a good idea not to bring it up" , now that is diplomacy.
lindsey is so logical and stevie is so intuitive
Definitely. Chalk and cheese but musically they compliment one another so gracefully
I noticed that Lindsay was communicating very well. I really enjoy the way he speaks and the way he sounds when he speaks. He's very talented in everything he does.
You can see him thinking before and as he talks. He is so creative and smart.
Agreed
And handsome 😊
Genius
Lindsey Buckingham has more skills than Stevie Nicks could ever dream to have
It’s obvious to me when I listen to this song that Stevie basically wanted to show two different perspectives on this song. First verse was written in third person as a narrative. She is telling the story of them from an outsiders perspective. The second verse it switches to her directly speaking to him and then it goes into her speaking to herself and then back to telling the story as a narrator. How can anyone not see that? This song is quite awesome because of that dynamic.
Totally agree!
Okay Luis, calm down son.
@@dario1263 lmao he wanted to be HEARD
Oh my...I love their interaction with one another. I ache for them to just be together
"When you say 'Now you're going home' who are you talking to? I'm talking to YOU!" Haha. I love how they still write songs about each other. They fight like a married couple. :)
Lindsey knee it was about him. He asked so he can hear her say it
I love how straight up she is when he asks "Who are you talking about?" and looks hims right in the eyes and says. "I'm talking to you!" Love Stevie sooo much.
He knew the song was about him but he just wanted to hear her say it 😆
True. Though I think Lindsey and Stevie are different tyoes of songwriters. Lindsey is the one that likes to stick to logic and rules, he's sort of strict in that. Stevie is the free spirit, she writes what she wants to and she doesn't let rules hold her back. I think the combination is both what makes it work most of the time. They keep each other in balance.
Best comment on here
Note to self: all Fleetwood Mac songs are about Lindsey and Stevie
Also, no matter what it is or what is going on Miss Nicks, as sexy as she might be, always plays the role of victim.
I believe Lindsey wanted to say in Go your own way “ you will get lonely and fat for the rest of your life” Best revenge, she actually did.
William D'Sousa g
Ms. Felony Strutter , yeah, because she is not a strong, independent woman....
William D'Sousa , and she is still rockin out.... so....
"You can't change that, because it's beautiful." Wow. Awesome.
Say You Will is one of Macs best albums.
It is up there, number 3. Just behind Rumours and Tusk, yes!
I don't know why it took me so long to listen to it, probably because I didn't know Lindsey was back on it. It's an outstanding album, right up there with the very best, I love Mirage but I think it might edge it, although the production on Say You Will isn't as crisp as the Mirage era
Cant have a great mac album without Christine
@@paulelroy6650 But, Mac did.
Easily.
If you loved that ONE person, and your no longer together. You will always have love for them. I do.
I so agree. Actually I woukd've loved to have been a fly on the wall during the whole period of recording. And on the dance tour. Well actually with anything they ever did.
Lindsey and Stevie are so fascinating to watch.
Stevie Nicks, Macs greatest songwriter and vocalist.
Lindsey was just suggesting. That's the way they work together. When I first heard the song and heard the tense change it seemed alittle off, so I understand Lindsey's point of view. In the end, nothing changed. I see nothing wrong with discussing the matter. Stevie is strong enough now, she can handle Lindsey.
As the producer, it's his job to ask questions and make suggestions. He'd be negligent if he didn't. In the end, the lyrics remained the same, but not wrong for him to bring it up any more than it's wrong for her to push to keep the lyrics as they were.
The creative process is so interesting!!
I know Stevie really doesn't like Say You Will, but I think that it is the best FM album since Tusk, especially featuring Buckingham/Nicks together.
I certainly think SYW has some of her very best songs on it, this one in particular.
+James Nuttall I agree!
one of their Best Albums!
It was really Stevie's last great vocals too, she had tunes to fit her older voice...
Oh wow, I didn't know Stevie didn't like SYW too much. I agree, it has some of her best, and Thrown Down is one of the /best of the best/.
i think of SYW more as a Buckingham Nicks album than FM
The Best song on the album and one of the best songs in several decades. Brilliant. Thank You! It deserves more radio play which I did not hear. Sad, Beautiful song.
I love this song! Watching them professionally crafting it is amazing!
They oh so still love each other. I think neither one knows how to say it, admit and deal with it. They say it through song and hurt each other in person.
I'm only 42, and I was only a toddler, when they were on the road, but now I've got 12 albums of Fleetwood, and Stevie Nicks, I've finally found my idol/icons! Rock on Stevie! Love you too! Lindsey you're so handsome! 💜💯👌🙋
Melanie Herbert good for you, melanie! I love stevie and the mac too. I saw them at 7 yrs old for the first time and have been under their spell ever since. So awesome you discovered them and love them a whole bunch too. Peace, love and music. 🎶☺🎵
Love them all so much. Hopefully they can all make it work to get back together. Amazing vocal blend and feel to everything they do.
Really cool to see them go through the creative process. Stevie is being a bit defensive, but I think she really wants Lindsay's opinion, if not his approval.
Wonderful people comprised of Fleetwood Mac. Creating songs is such a challenge. Wishing them all many blessings and Love.
I really respect they are so REAL with their Feelings. (open?)
Feel heart torn on this album....Thanks . c'est la Vie.
This is true artistry - for these 2 to work so sweetly together. Thanks for sharing this piece of history.
I find this clip hilarious for so many reasons, but Stevie trying to come up with a PC explanation of how this is about their relationship, and then Lindsey being like, Yes, it's totally weird singing about myself just takes the cake. Oh, Lindsey, don't you remember "Go Your Own Way," "Silver Springs," "Dreams" and the DOZENS of other songs in the FM canon? You've both been writing and singing about your dysfunctional relationship for decades...
Lindsey's total lack of self awareness, righteousness and entitlement have always bugged me. But the man can play a guitar.
There will always be tension between these two no matter what...and the fact they are Gemini and Libra. Either make it or break it combo.
This is hilarious and awesome.
No, she's not a Bob Dylan. But she is Stevie Nicks and her history of hits and poetic lyrics speaks for themselves. She didn't even need to have that discussion, despite him wanting to be helpful. But she's right, you wouldn't say that to Bob Dylan. And now you know, you don't say that Stevie Nicks, either.
I'm craving a big Mac then i will listen to ALL of my big Mac. Er. I mean fleet wood Mac stuff!
It annoys me when people slate Lindsey for just stating his opinion, Stevie states her opinion on Lindsey's songs and nobody blinks an eye lid! I love them both and agree with them both! I am personally a bigger fan of Lindsey... Within Fleetwood Mac and his solo stuff:)
It totally annoys me as well. I love them both and was a huge Stevie fan but the bottom line is, she would not be here if it wasn't for Lindsey. It appears on this documentary that he is trying to be as cautious and sensitive as he possibly could in his suggestions to Stevie. He seems to be walking on egg shells for fear that she will freak out. . If you have ever seen her "In your Dreams" documentary, she speaks of what we see here and makes it seem like Lindsey was attacking her. She seems to hold on to her grudges way too long ( like 30 years too long).
100 % agree.
Hold on to her grudges way too long?
Man! I thought I was the only one to think that.
I've wondered whether she is deliberately not participating in Fleetwood Mac to spite Mick.
I think it would be more to spite Lindsey more so than Mick. she seems to have a good relationship with Mick and also with Christine. IT's Lindsey she cant seem to rid herself of the grudge. Personally, i think a big reason why she is not participating with Fleetwood Mac on their new album is because she may have lost the ability to write new songs on a consistent level. If you look at the timeline of new songs from Stevie, it was before Tango in the Night when she wrote a chunk of new material. Basically the cocaine years. Since then she has written very few new songs for each new project and relied on old material to fill up an album as well as material co-written with someone else (usually where she writes the lyrics and the other person writes the music). It seems like, for her, no coke = lack of creativity = no new songs. It may be that we will never see her record with the Mac again but she may tour. Add to that, she seems to be extremely emotional (holding on to grudges for 30 YEARS etc)and a bit of a narcissist. It also seems like she surrounds herself with nothing but "yes" people. That is, her people will stroke her ego where as Fleetwood Mac will not. Im sure she thinks her solo music is better than what she makes with Fleetwood mac. I think her music with the Mac is magic and her solo stuff is hit and miss. Add to that her fan base views her as a goddess that can not do any wrong. I mean , holding a grudge for over 30 years just isn't normal. Man, i am probably going to get a lot of hate for posting this. Yikes!!
No hate here fundies2. You are spot on. To me..Lindsey is a perfectionist,that's why (again my opinion) his music with Fleetwoodmac and his Solo work is great. I think she could be arrogant and not have the patience to record and album that could take a year and sound great where as he does. They were a couple years ago etc... whatever. Fights,tension ..we all go through it.
Love the way Stevie mentions Dylan. I was thinking about Bob as soon as I heard them talking about tenses. Switching tenses adds a bit of an ethereal or abstract quality to a song. Afterall, song writing isn't English Composition 101.
Sometimes I think these two never stayed together because they overanalyzed the intricacies of their relationship. But analysis and perception, in part, is what makes them both legends.
Problem is, "you can't say that about Bob Dylan" is what's called a straw-man argument, which means even if you can't name it, you still sense that it's a bogus comment. And yes, I realize it probably was a reference to Dylan's Tangled Up In Blue, reflected against his popularity and recognized expertise in composing.
Any friction between these two people that i admire & love, no matter the cause of the friction it always has a sexual tension vibe to it...
Stevie nicks is just awesome. Love. How she held her ground.
its the poet that she is and always will be!!!
She took it personally
Being the poet she is and having the stature as a songwriter at that time (ca. 2003, with the release of Say You Will) since the Buckingham/Nicks album (not to mention the songs written between 1969 and 1973, some of which are on 24 Karat Gold), Stevie is certainly entitled to defend her lyrics and to "write what she wants to", in my opinion. Language, certainly in poetry, is like a living organism which tends to evolve. One can bend and shape it at will. The poetess Stevie Nicks always tries to explore new territory in poetic language and she will forever seek to expand and stretch the boundaries of that language.
I think his lyrics are best on his solo albums.
Oooh ah o y
So beautiful to see real artists who care about the craft. These are real people who happen to be famous, using their gift.
I have the unpopular opinion that Stevie's voice has gotten even better as she got older. I read all the time about live clips that "yeah her voice is not as good as it was but she still sounds great" and I think WTF it's better stronger and I think more controlled. But I'm always told I'm an idiot to think that.
Her voice was always beautiful but now that she's older something has gotten better, her voice is absolutely stunning and unique. I agree with you
Go to her 24 Karat Gold tour THEN come to us about her voice. Here's a clue: Her voice was absolutely amazing and strong and she did an AMAZING job.
Even during her worst vocal moments (which most artists have periodically), she still has incredible talent.
Ah, there you go. That last sentence: "My opinion." Opinion does not equal fact. YOU may think her voice is shot, but that doesn't mean it's true.
&&& of course her voice has changed! Yes, she lost some of her range. Does that mean she should hang up her cloak and call it a day? Please!! Stevie is no longer 28. She is no longer 32. Her voice is not the same strength is was during her Tusk era or the Bella Donna era (which IMO was her strongest). She's 68 years old and can *still* blow her fans away -- read the reviews of her most recent tour! Just because she doesn't "hit the high notes" (like you feel she should be able to do despite everything) doesn't negate her star power, her spirit, her showsmanship, or her longevity. We all know the history of her life and the factors that affected her voice: the drugs, the exhaustion, the over-exertion night after night, the rumors of dissolving Tylenol or whatever and injecting it causing acidic PND, smoking, partying/drinking, stress, and age. Yet despite it all, her voice is still beautiful and capable of a variety of range and expressions. I don't know why people expect her to have the same vocal range, abilities and sounds that she did when she was in her youth and prime!
You want to hear her sing, you say??? Why? So you can criticize and condescend her voice? Oh yeah -- you suuuuure "out-fan" me! I know MANY people who have been hardcore fans for her entire career and like true fans, they understand *why* her voice has changed and are still able to appreciate and love her and her matured voice, even as it has changed over the many years. So please -- spare me with your "my friends said she's unlistenable." Fairweather fans are the ones who only want her at her prime and tell her to "bow out gracefully" when they don't think she meets their standards.
When you're 68 and still belting out tunes and putting on an amazing show, let me know! Otherwise, your opinion is just that -- a shitty opinion!
What a sad person you must be that you think because you've been a fan "longer" and because you've clearly stalked Stevie's life (going to her house, really?! That's a bit disturbing -- no wonder she has to be so careful!), that your OPINION somehow trumps others! Just because you've decorated your house in Stevie stuff doesn't automatically mean you are a bigger or more loyal fan than -- especially if you're essentially reporting that she should "hang it up." Sounds like you're a fan who never acknowledged why things changed for Stevie, you just share a nasty opinion and therefore seem to fall flat of a "die-hard" fan, more like a "I only like Stevie when her voice meets my standard and she hasn't been good in X years so she should go away because she's be greedy." By the way, she definitely doesn't need the money, so saying it's a money-grab is ludicrous -- she deserves to go out and have fun and sing songs that are important to her. You sound like a person from The Ledge.
By the way, I actually agree with some of your points -- i.e., the remasters being perfect, that the 24 Karat Gold album should have at LEAST included the original demos and outtakes (which I know and have as well), that Ann Wilson has a spectacular voice, and that the high-priced VIP packages should include meet-and-greets. However, more power to Stevie for doing her after aaaaaallll these years. Obviously, you and your ilk who think "Stevie should stop because she sounds terrible" (because considering her past including having nodules removed from her vocal cords and the extreme strain on her vocals by years of nonstop, grueling tours with no vocal rest means nothing to your snobby thoughts) are a VERY small group because she is selling seats like crazy, getting rave reviews, selling merchandise so fast that they can't keep up, have people petitioning for her to do another leg of her solo tour across the US and worldwide & are saying they have no desire to see or hear any new FM material without her!
She's 68 and STILL got it....and all you've got is a room full of merchandise of a person you say should stop singing and a big mouth on social media. Who is really winning here?!
I am going to publish a clip of her singing with Sheryl Crow as Sheryl plays keyboards in the living room t in a couple weeks. It completes validates what you said. Her raw abilities are mind blowing and the fact that she can go home on a weekend and write two of the most amazing songs you'll ever here while playing with her dogs. Thats real talent...
LOVE it
love is what human beings are about...
Yes ,this album has great songs!!!!!!
When they argue or disagree you can see the anger start
I think this is one of the songs Stevie stopped caring about because she didn’t like the final product. I wish they kept the ‘question and answer’ vibe in the chorus with the echoing ‘thrown down’ part. This is an amazing song. Anyone else wish they’d perform it live?
You know what's funny is that I didn't notice the tense difference that Lindsey brings up - until I watched the video!! It's definitely not "correct" as Lindsey points out (and I love them both, so I'm not taking sides) but I think Stevie's point is valid that the listener will just 'get it.' Great song - and awesome to watch them create.
LOVE the Mac!
AWESOME footage
Lindsey: Wizard of the reel
Love these guys.
Stevie is a genius
why is she not in the music hall a fame as a solo artist is beyond me. yea she is with the mac but why not solo too.she is truly an icon to the female music industry( that is gut wreching to listen too even without instruments) my favorite song off syw album
Well, it's a few years later and now she is. I hope you thought that was as cool as I did. The first female to be in the Hall twice.
Lindsey @4:21 : "I'm just saying that it's sort of a rule of thumb in writing that you don't shift your tense and your person."
Stevie @4:29 : "Well I don't think that you could say that to Bob Dylan."
Lindsey's thought bubble @ 4:32 : "B*tch, please..."
I can see why he didnt like the way she wrote it, lol, he wanted it more distanced, she makes it personal, and her way is dynamite!
No wonder they argue so much. I love Stevie, but I sometimes think she's straight up trolling him when she says stuff like that.
Kenny Wood. She is...admittedly. "I'll follow you down til the sound of my voice will haunt you."
Grawp55 - Actually no.. stop being so blind!
Exactly Stevie it’s making a point In the lyrics LOL that’s why LindseyWant to change them👌
Stevies dog look like her! same hair! Great song, her best song for ages.
I wonder if that dog manipulates people too?
You can't change that because it's beautiful I write what I want to I write what I want to
Kat c - Sounds a bit like a spoiled brat.. since she’s clueless of arranging & producing..🙄
@@jayannakelley9051 I feel the unreal amount of hits she has written, being called a "spoiled brat" is unwarranted. Knows what she wants and has fierce tenacity to have it done her way. Not spoiled, just a total empowered badass. Her way works and she knows it.
@@aakar88 - Well she’s definitely extremely lucky. Lindsey arranging their self-titled album & with his insistence lands in an already established band.
I wonder if she’d been that lucky if she moved there on her own 🤷♀️
Ah well.. I haven’t ever been an over the top FM fan anyway..They were a good pop band tho.
TRUE EARTH POET GODDESS
I can understand Lindsey's point here, although I love the way Stevie writes as it is. She does shift back and forth between first, second, and third person in this song, so I can see his reason for bringing it up as an idea for her...but I do agree that the song as great as it is. I just hate the version that's on SYW...I think the "wall of sound" version is soooooooo much stronger.
"But you can change that.. it's beautiful" ahahaha..
If Lindsey speaks EVERYONE should LISTEN.
I don't think you could say that to Bob Dylan 😂
Jasmine Leslie BOOM roasted lol
The only thing I have to add to this absurd debate on tense in relation to this documentary/ advertisement is who the F cares what Bob Dylan would say or think. I guarantee you that he surely wouldn’t give a rats ass.
Bob Dylan doesn't write the same type of music. I would definitely agree with Lindsey.
Stevie is no Bob Dylan.
@@Melbelle-nl9vn Because she Stevie Nicks legend. Dummy.
🤣 I love Stevie. GO STEVIE! Nobody tells Stevie how to be a legend 💁🏼♀️ she is the queen, you don't criticize the queen
needs more cowbell..I see it up there..unused :(
It's the poet that I am!!!!!!!!!!
Well I think that if there's any person out there to do that, its Lindsey
Lindsey’s just giving his opinion ( it’s not to criticize) because Stevie appreciates his musical talent. But then again Stevie has had a successful career on her own. She can take or leave his input. It’s good neither take it personally it’s just talking about lyrics.
Her success is largely owed to the production efforts of others. Including Lindsey. She can sing, she can write lyrics, but even she has admitted that it's others, including Lindsey, who take those bits of lyrics and craft them into full songs.
Carissa Conti - Exactly! Which it’s really bullshit she had him fired.. 🤬
Is the way I write it's the poet that I am!!!
Defensive Deafness, comes up in every couple's interaction. Doesn't matter if your point was made in consideration of the other's professional image, or well-being, or whatever, it's seen as criticism and an attempt to overbear.
Excellent comment
For her it is me and you ...not me and him ...
"You can´t change that because its beautiful." That's a truth in its own right. Writing lyrics is not about making sense in the first place. Find words that sound good when you sing them. Think about the meaning later. Not saying that the meaning is not important, but the flow has a higher priority.
This wonderful song should've been the sencond single from the album instead of the title track
I thought it was released as the third single. They did play it on an episode of "Friends".
@@abbagodz which episode?
@@alexthiebaut2195 I'm sorry, I don't know. I was never a fan of the show and I just happened to catch it by mistake.
@@abbagodz Found it on another video, it's s9e20, right at the end, Soap Rooftop Party
Fascinating. Male versus female.
what you had and what you lost. will never stop loving you my queen
Lindsey: *I dOn’T tHiNK yOu CoULd saY tHat tO bOB dYLan*
This was really interesting to see how they create their songs and Stevie really sticks to her guns when it comes to her songs that she's written..and love that view of the outside of the house at the very end..was it Lindsey's house?? keep on rockin Stevie
Yes it was at his house. It is nicknamed, "Buckingham Palace" and is quite grand.
This wasn't at his house. This is a house FM rented for seven months to record Say You Will. That's why you see them loading up the studio gear toward the end, to return it most likely to Lindsey's actual home studio.
Wouldn't call it a drama queen. He is just very stuck to what he thinks is right I guess. He likes to stick to rules and guidelines, Stevie is a free spirit that does whatever she wants and how she wants it. That gives a bit of a clash sometimes.
I really enjoyed seeing these two work together without Lindsey ignoring Stevie or talking over her, being sarcastic with her, etc.
@saintlysinner666 Destiny Rules is the title - it is on Amazon
Great comeback , Stevie .
Katie .Woodlief - No not really.. 🙄
listen to the queen my queen
She doesn’t take criticism well. At least not from Lindsey anyway
She threatened to call her lawyers every time Jimmy Iovine made her do another vocal take on Bella Donna.
Wasn't she living with Jimmy during Bella Donna? Nevertheless that rolls be typical -- she's strong but too emotional and defensive.. she's always been one to speak through managers, attorneys, etc. rather than directly address a discomfort.
I think she took the criticism very well. She listened to his suggestions and she didn’t want to change the poem. At least they didn’t get into a knock down drag out fight on camera.
Joseph Forman She seemed to take it well at the time... but I saw another documentary in which she described how Lindsey had ‘taken issue with her’ and been ‘really nasty’ in this very incident. Yet we can see how hard he tried to be diplomatic. Very very unfair of her, if not deliberately twisting the truth. Or maybe she just likes to see herself as a victim, with any disagreement perceived as an attack. Pathetic. And makes me wonder about the truth of other remarks she’s made about Lindsey.
@@judyward5341 Exactly!! Stevie tends to embellish quite a bit - esp. the older she gets.
stevies too good
It's the way I write!!!
Yes mam, stand back Lindsay. It is awesomeand yet a little sad to see 2 people who will always love each other but cannot be together as a "couple" if you will. Stevie had to live her own life, and Lindsay's will never be able to have a partner who doesn't need him 24/7. He has missed out on a true love if you ask me. I bet no one tells him how to write a song..or play the guitar ..
Some of the comments regarding either of their egos seem somewhat petty, personally. Dylan's often lauded as one of the greatest song writers in general, Stevie, too, in her own ways has made her own mark in the genre, and at the time this was filmed and recorded more than 20yrs had passed between Rumours and their impact on Rock & Roll history and being aware of the magnitude of each of their own rockstar statuses. Enough time and enough success had passed for Stevie to know her worth and her place in the music industry to have defended her own songwriting choices, I mean... 20yrs after Bob Dylan's own success nobody should have question his song writing. Let's not forget, it was Stevie's song "Dreams" that was sang and written by her that was Fleetwood Mac's biggest hit. Not to knock Lindsey's own record with songwriting, but additionally... even Stevie's career as a solo artist commercialy eclipsed Lindsey's. With all that said, I think it's safe to say she knows what she's doing when it comes to writing a song.
Her solo career was schlocky 80s wank. Yeah I'm sure Buckingham thought "Bwana" was going to be a big hit. He never went the commercial angle, he has too much integrity.
Guess nobody remembers Holiday road?
Stevie should listen to Lindsey...
LOL
in some ways, the delicate balance of the universe rests on the certainty that these two will never listen to each other.
Perpetual.Art - Well we all know how this has all played out.. after years of Lindsay doing the actual WORK of arranging & producing bringing out the best of FM.. Stevie throws her usual temper tantrums & Lindsey fired from the band she wouldn’t have even been in without him..
I really don’t care about any ‘hate’ that’ll come my way.. That was a bullshit thing to do.. Period!
@@jayannakelley9051 I agree.
@@jayannakelley9051 and yet she is still more popular and more successful than him. So she wins.
I happen to have really liked this a lot and am sorry it doesn't get any live play anymore.
@lavieboheme68 You are so correct!!
American horror story made me love Stevie
She resents the fact that he doesnt treat her as a diva. He never became one of her yes people. She wrote some good songs. But without his arrangements and producing she would be nowhere.
You idiot, have you not heard her solo work? He had absolutely nothing to do with that.
And without Fleetwood Mac she wouldnt have had a solo career.
Oh i would say she had some fairly successful multi platinum albums without lindsey’s involvement and got inducted in the rock and roll hall of fame for it twice as the only women out of 22. But you can believe whatever pleases you to believe. It won’t affect you and it certainly won’t affect stevie 😝
Wow, Stevie in this comes off as really resistant to suggestions in this in regard to Lindsay's suggestions as far as the lyrics go...not sure if that is a control thing that both of them have...you know though, when collaborating, you can't just roll over every time someone suggests something...the suggestion really has to have merit to really making the song way better...but in their interaction, when she walled up, he knew she was taking a stand, and was really nice on how he chose his words with her, as to not come off as critical force, but simply suggestive, like seeing a friend with their hair messed up a little bit in a way that it's bugging you, and you tell them, "hey, um, your hair is a li'l different"...and they are like "hey, man, I intentionally did that", and you are like "well, if it wasn't intentional, I wouldn't be a very good friend if I didn't say something" kind of deal...uncomfortable for both parties...hey, thanks for posting this insight...
Yeah I thought her response was ridiculous, he was only making a grammar suggestion and she took it too personally.
Her dog is growling at him lol
"Well I don't think that you could say that to bob dylan" and lindsey immidiately shuts up lol. This is why I love stevie so much is because nobody fucks with her its great
Awwwww ;,(
stevies telling lindsey he can take his contenuity and cram it up his high voltage blank lol..! telling stevie how she should write lol?
Stevie sounds much better A cappella then Lyndsey IMO :)
That’s because his vocals were intended for the background and the key was supposed to be slightly different.
The best she has ever looked !
so cute Mick and Stevie having a little fake fight.. funny.. Stevie is a very gifted singer and songwriter, she can really carry a tune....