That Time a Guy Tried to Build a Utopia for Mice and it all Went to Hell
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- čas přidán 17. 06. 2024
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In 1968, an expert on animal behaviour and population control called John B. Calhoun built what was essentially a utopia for mice that was purpose built to satisfy their every need. Despite going out of his way to ensure the inhabitants of his perfect mouse society never wanted for anything, within 2 years virtually the entire population was dead. So what happened?
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www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues...
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What is sad is that this is already happening to us humans now.
This is why we keep having mass shootings.
Women have been given all the food, shelter, and protection they need.
So men have been rendered useless and many men would like to mate with women but can not
because the women feel they have what they need for survival.
Many women are not having kids because mating has always been a sexual contract between men and women.
Men provide shelter, food, and protection, and women provide the men with sex and offspring.
We live in a human utopia, that will not end well.
This is why many people fear monger for a social collapse or zombie apocalypse, because people subconsciously want the human utopia to end.
People suppose to fight and earn their right to live, not live in an artificial society.
And the "beautiful ones" already exist, they are called celebrates.
Many celebrates constantly groom themselves in wealthy towers, away from everyone, and they have little to no offspring.
.. Its already happening.
@@ebe-hero7052 ok
Over population??? Sounds like depopulation via communist tactic
They truly do live in a *society*
Lul
👏🏻
underated comment
LMAO!
Bottom text
They became territorial and made gangs and class structure wtf...
Some of them also became NEETs. That part about gangs also reminded of something I saw a while ago, about groups of british hooligans who would meet up in some empty place, team up in 2 teams and then beat the shit out of each other just for the fun of it.
@@firecat6666 you mean Clockwork Orange?
Oh no no, it was in real life. Some news piece on TV or something.
@@rickstevens1167 or simply "hooligans"
sounds like london
Dang, rat gangs and withdrawn high society mice, that was wild. When I read “Utopia” I expected more but it was a big box for food and naps, nothing really utopian about it, just a coffin of basic necessities. Imagine someone calling a locked fallout shelter with food shelves, a toilet and a bed “utopia”.
For rats it's utopia, unless you think there are more goods that rats can use like smartphones, radios or cars? Well true, they could have had at least some toys
@@ellidominusser1138freedom. You’re forgetting the freedom to roam and explore and experience new things
We call that prison over here (they provide food water shelter clothing the basic necessities)
It is interesting because in our search for commodity and an easier lifestyle, we leave behind that stimulation you speak about. This applies to humans as well. As of right now people don’t have unlimited resources, they have to work for it, even if it’s far less than centuries ago, yet centuries ago fridges and supermarkets weren’t a thing, food preservation was way more difficult and wars to gain other’s territory and so their resources (land, food, women for reproduction) were very much common, just like every other species.
What happened in this case with the rats? With the lack of suffering and necessity, they created problems for themselves, challenges which ultimately led to their demise and you could even call that natural selection since the new generations stopped reproducing, engaging in homosexuality and withdrawal, and we’re not adapted if someone were to throw them out into the wilderness .
It certainly is a case to reflect upon, and try to answer how many human behaviors in the present are due to a lack of stimulation, which ones are natural population control (since humans don’t have any natural predators), and do those behaviors have anything to do with the growing commodity in our society
The suicide rate in developed countries far exceed developing countries. Obesity. The drug epidemic. Less than replacement level reproduction. All developed countries issues. All completely parallel to these rat experiments. Murkel saved Germany by letting in those millions of immigrants lol. Gave them purpose for the time being. Until that time when people have good opportunities for high level creative and intellectual pursuits, they'll get bored of the hamster wheel even if they get all the food, water and entertainment they want.
The main problem is that these universes were not utopias by definition - mice in them lacked the distance for a quiet life, or entertainment and activities to stimulate the intellect. These should be called dystopias, because they simulate overpopulation in cities where people are more likely to have neither the money nor the strength to fully develop their personality. I've been reading about them for a very long time, but in an earlier version of the mouse utopia, they had a very large area to develop, and then the population settled down to a comfortable small number. Which only confirms my words above that it was not a utopia, but a dystopia, and every time this is used to predict the collapse of human civilization, this is a speculation on the facts
🤦♂️ yeah youre judging the experiment by knowledge we already knew, because of the experiment. theres a lot of things that go into a “utopia” and one can not get every factor right-utopia is not possible. “the right” uptopia is always the wrong utopia
the distance argument can only hold so long, because if the limit wasnt 1000 rats it would be 10 000 rats
They basically lived in an exact replica of any big city. If you take a step back you immediately understand that the "traXXyfaXXery /NNGG" that's going on currently is exactly what the weak mice in the experiment started doing. Humanity will not go extinct since the powerful always keep a poor majority that struggle and thus never get caught in the behavioral sink. You need to be so pampered that you become woke or similar to get stuck in it.
Another the concern is replication. Many old and classic experiments are often taken for granted, and nobody questions their validity and methods.
Exactly. Experiment was executed _specifically_ to prove the point. It was not not a real “mice utopia” by any means.
"That Time a Guy Tried to Build a Utopia for Mice and it all Went to Hell" sounds like the average anime title nowadays.
More like a LN
asked Gigguk
The time i got reincarnated as a slime💀😂
Would pay to watch a Hamtaro take on this.
Except in the anime “hell” is when the mice evolve into mice-girls and start all developing feelings for the MC. Hijinks ensue
So basically:
They were so bored that they decided to form street fighting clubs for fun, and some decided that fighting is boring and they should distance from their rotten society and dedicate their lives to perfectly grooming their coats.
Dostoevsky talked about this in his book "Notes from Undergrond" 150 years ago.
Sounds like how elite do it. Distance themselves from us and worry about themselves.
Hunger games
Likely the same thing Humans would do if put in the same situation of no rewards for their efforts.
The first rule of Mice Club is…
Humans do essentially the same things mice and rats do, only they are able rationalize it to themselves in an elaborate way.
When life is to easy, it ceases to have meaning.
Hit the nail on the head 👌
Yes... Challenges and struggle makes life worthwhile 😅
The problem was there was nothing for the mice to do. No mental stimulation, they went crazy.
Same thoughts here, its rediculous how they didnt see the needed to include toys or stimilation some running wheels. Even hamsters get board if you dont rearrange their cage or tube structures and hide some treats.
Yeah, someone should recreate the experiment but include a purpose for the mice. I personally doubt that humans would do any better under similar circumstances, so it would be very interesting to see if a purpose would save the colony.
I don't think it's that they had nothing to do it's that there was nothing they *needed* to do. No worries, no dangers, nothing to work for. No reason to care. A whole population consumed by apathy.
@@pirateman1144 Yeah, big difference between distraction and purpose. No distraction causes bordedom, but no purpose causes crippling depression.
@@pirateman1144 I don't think so, there was something they needed and were not getting. Mental stimulation. Mice are smart creatures, much like humans and other animals they require mental and physical challenges to test and improve themselves with. Life is not just about eating and reproducing.
"The first Matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect; it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure."
@@Jonnybravo6742 Pretty sure it's just a reference to The Matrix. Calm down mate.
@@Jonnybravo6742 obviously not. Dogmatic defense rearing its desperate head
@@Jonnybravo6742 He is referencing a movie and you start talking about religion shoving your opinion. You don't need superpowers to determine that someone like that isn't right in the head
@@Jonnybravo6742 I am in this comment section cause I wanted to watch a cool video, I am speciifcally under this reply thread bcs I like the Matrix reference. I am not here to get educated on religion, just get out. People like you are the reason so many people lack faith.
@@Jonnybravo6742 You’re probably a troll, but the person above is I believe referring to those who preach faith and religion without understanding the people that they teach it to, creating a divide between the preacher and listener that ultimately results in the deterioration of any faith present.
Though I can’t blame you for going to a religious side with this comment thread because the original reply already took it there in such a negative way.
You neglected to mention the fact that there weren't many feeders and all the food was locked behind a wire mesh so they had to gnaw on it bit by bit, so mice were forced to spend a lot of time in extremely crowded spaces. The enclosure also lacked any enrichment articles entirely, and was realistically fit only for a hundred mice or so. The whole setup was extremely pathological from the start.
Thank you so much for explaining this, as the video completely ignores WHY this happened. It seems like a big thing to not put in the video.
The fact this never got a response made me lose all trust in this channel
@@trocoplaytv1254 on a 4 year old video? You nuts
@DSan-kl2yc that means despite having 4 years to grow as a person he still thinks its acceptable to have misinformation posted on his channel , which Is already fucked , this should be deleted.
However I'm well aware youtubers tend to value money > integrity. So at the very least he should've made some correction in the description. Comments , or fucking anything. So that way he can still make money on the video. But he hasn't.
He's had 4 years and still hasn't fixed his mistake. So really good point bringing up the 4 years! I didn't even think of it that way!
@@trocoplaytv1254you severely underestimate how many comments he has to look through daily. This video alone has 18k comments and it’s 4 years old that means there’s four years worth of videos he’s getting comments on daily I don’t know if he has a team just to check comments but even with a team that’s a massive amount to keep up with on a daily basis while also filtering for bot and spam comments. But hey you go with whatever fits your narrative
The first matrix I built was perfect, sublime. A triumph only equal to its monumental failure....
That quote was probably based on this experiment.
I love that the "Beautiful Ones" basically formed a cult.
Nowadays we would call them "Karen".
or incels
They became influencers.
MLM moms, Coachella girls, and dudes at the gym who literally cannot stop taking selfies
They were Asperger's
They are dying of boredom. Throw down a cat every monday of the week for about 20 min. That will give them a sense of purpose to breed more and live in harmony together. Just an idea.
Lol
@@rubengarciavaro1277 That is basically the plot of the purge
So...war?
My pampered cats are bored too.They always have food,water,soft beds,toys,etc...I volunteer my cats for the Monday job of scaring the mice.
Ampersand Zer0 I was going to say, so start another war in the middle east?
I think we should look at the problem from a different perspective. It's indeed true that "humans are not mice", but what's even more important to note is that mice aren't basic either. I'm quite sure that's no Utopia for mice.
Otherwise, looking at humans, would you call a big house, where X humans live inside and without the possibility to leave it, an Utopia?
No matter how many partners and food is available. They lack all the other requirements (needed for complex animals) essential for our happiness. And the same goes for all the complex animals.
Your comment structure was poetic and a masterclass in various degrees, you have reach peak intelligence and my advice is to step it up by studying the quantum mechanics of our reality.
@@wackoterp7026 Yeah, I've read it again and I don't know why it's so bad XD
Maybe I was drunk or something? 🤣
I'm indeed no native english speaker, but I usually manage to write intelligible comments.
I see if I can fix it 🤦
The problem with building a utopia(which I believe is largely impossible) is actually defining what a utopia constitutes.
There was a Twilight Zone episode called "A Nice Place to Visit" in which the main guy dies and wakes up in a nice apartment. He discovers that everything he wants materializes for him. His every need is met and his every pleasure is fulfilled. He thinks he has gone to heaven, but over the course of the episode, he starts to grow restless and more and more distraught, despite having everything he can think of. By the end of the episode, he realizes that he, in fact, did not go to heaven but was rather in hell. Purposelessness can truly be a torment unrivalled by nearly any other.
Edit: everyone is asking “why doesn’t he just big brain and wish for some fulfillment,” which is a valid question, but I believe it is implied that the lack of fulfillment/purpose _is_ the punishment, and it is the only thing he can’t wish his way out of.
I remember that episode. It's a good one. Such a great show.
What if… you get everything you want. INCLUDING UNENDING WARFARE AGAINST HELL ITSELF. Never dying, never faltering. Ultimately becoming DOOM itself. With a double steel barreled sword of vengeance!! HAHAHAHA THIS IS THE HELL I WANT
so this is basically the definition of "gluttony"
Another TV show that portrayed this well was the last season of The Good Place.
@@defiantcornball9115 Exactly. People believe if they had their selfish or Cardinal desires met like food, sex, entertainment, etc than they would be 'happy'. The exact opposite is true in most religions such as Christianity which teaches that our desires are like actual chains tying us to the world of sin and causing us immeasurable pain and meaninglessness. This is purely a point of view of Christianity and an example so if you disagree you're welcome to but I'm just referencing my own point of view as an example.
It’s a Utopia-
Um, no? Mice are intelligent creatures. They NEED mental stimulation! They didn’t even have a simple running wheel. Or a single chew toy. Of COURSE they went mad!! Even prisons have gyms! If any pet owner did this it’d be considered actual animal cruelty.
right!!! plus mice are not like rats! rats form (more naturally) poly bonds and will have a few mates. Mice tend to pair up at least for one breeding usually more. I have study so many species and field mice like different things and have different tendencies than the mice that like to live in your home. The way these mice live and behave is just different enough that it make the other species unattractive as a partner. even though they may cross paths etc. plus starting with such a low number of genetic sources .... eh I would have followed something like line breeding practices. in line breeding the rule can be no one related or connecting the two breeding pairs going back 8 generations. Some do heavier inbreeding once they already have a healthy stock but the closet I have seen is no relations within 5 gen with possible 4 gen under permissions.
That's what I was thinking the entire time I was watching this. Overpopulation means there are more creatures than resources. They said several times that there were enough resources to support a population two or three times larger than what the final count ended up being, so how does one conclude that overpopulation is what killed them?
All living beings require a purpose. Take away that purpose, and you take away the will to live.
Just one more thing humans are the same way
imagine hating people so much you cage 4000 mouse in 2 m2 and when they kill each other you shout "YEAH GUYS I TOLD U., OVERPOPULATION IS THE DEVIL" genius
@@norbe7914 yeah it definitely seems like the scientist had an agenda lol
Sounds like they were simply bored as hell. Put humans in a shiny box with enough food, water and cleaning and they also go insane eventually.
“You will live in ze box and you will be happy”
"They seemingly lost interest in all meaningful social bonds, and refused to interact or mate"
Nailed it
That's what happened to my great great great grand father
@@darkwebrat255 😂🤣😂🤣😍
So they all got dead end jobs working 12 hours a day 6 days a week?
Life.
Work in retail or the service industry long enough, same thing happens 😂
"they had all their basic needs met. food, water, shelter...
and they all went mad."
@Soren G dumbass
@Fluffynator He's saying Antifa are people that have everything they need, and have no problems. Because they have no problems, they go out and create them.
Fluffynator Close. They are making enemies out of everyone who does not align with their views and justifying their hatred by calling them Nazis.
To paraphrase John Cleese, extremism makes you feel good because it gives you enemies. In terms of Antifa/BLM, those enemies would be authority figures such as law enforcement and judges, bankers, business owners, class traitors, race traitors, and moderates; all would easily fall into the category of “Nazi” or “Nazi-sympathizer.” Now that they have their enemies, they can direct their anger and hatred towards these enemies-assault them, threaten them, dox them, and all sorts of nasty things-while parading themselves around as champions of the greater good. Why, if these so-called enemies didn’t exist, they would be pleasant, rational people and not the rather sad, paranoid schizoids they really are.
@TheyCallMe Doug lmao i forgot that guys name and podcast, i saw the interview with destiny it was great.
@TheyCallMe Doug whatever you say, kid
I appreciate this video because you began to speak a little about Calhoun's studies AFTER the most famous "Universe 25." I would love to hear more about that! And as always, I appreciate your concise and informative videos.
He tortured them via overcrowding. There was no utopia about it.
Bingo. Even the most comfortable prison is still a prison.
More than just overcrowding, there were a lack of enrichment activities. Sounds closer to a form of torture I forget the exact name of, something like white room/blank room torture where all a person's basic needs are covered but then there's nothing else. Basically the person goes super crazy because of boredom and isolation.
Exactly, this is what world situation rn
I wouldn't say overcrowding was the issue as it's specified they had more space than they were using and would crowd into some nests while leaving others empty.
Thats was the point tho wasnt it.
This is exactly why many mice and rat owners will tell you that enrichment is very important. You can give your rats/mice as much food, water and space as possible, but they still need mental stimulation. Toys, new environments, things to do other than eat, sleep and make babies.
Honestly, they’re quite similar to us in that way.
Risks, dangers and challenges to one's existence also help.
Wait...are we rats all long? Bro..this is deep.
Come home kazuha
@@InternetDweller009 But Saruman had slowly shaped it to his shifting purposes, and made it
better, as he thought, being deceived - for all those arts and subtle
devices, for which he forsook his former wisdom, and which fondly he
imagined were his own, came but from Mordor; so that what he made was
naught, only a little copy, a child's model or a slave's flattery, of
that vast fortress, armoury, prison, furnace of great power, Barad-dur,
the Dark Tower, which suffered no rival, and laughed at flattery, biding
its time, secure in its pride and its immeasurable strength.
Speak for yourself. All I need is food, watee and sleep.
reminds me of the Matrix
Agent Smith: Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster.
We're designed to learn and overcome challenges. Agent Smith and by extension the machines on the surface mistake that we just want to be in pain.
And nobody would accept it
Deoxal Want to be in pain?
@@Ty-vj4wg No I want to overcome pain
I wasn't talking about how you feel. I was questioning what you said. I quote "Agent Smith and by extension the machines on the surface mistake that we just want to be in pain." Why would they think we want to be in pain, that doesn't make sense. They think that all we want is no pain.
I thought this video was gonna start with "Hello V-Sauce, Micheal here" 😂
this is quite fascinating, I'd love to know if the same results would come to be if there was a predator/some sort of danger, and/or some novelty (like a cinema or something new happening every day to keep things fresh and entertaining)
Damn
I think this really shows what all living things crave: purpose.
@@exceedcharge1 But they didn't. When the population was low they were fine. But once they were one of so many, there was no reason to breed. i.e. their purpose as animals to carry on the survival of their species was gone because their species will survive anyways. Reminds me of the high rates of depression in big cities. Lots of others makes you feel small, apparently even if your a mouse.
To paraphrase another commenter here, they had bread, but not circuses. Recall that Calhoun had limited success when he introduced a variable of creativity.
@@thirdwheel1985au Yeah that's a very good point. We Humans keep ourselves engaged, a mouse doesn't really have capacity especially if nothing is provided. I still think that fits perfectly in line tho right, like being creative etc makes you want to do better and gives you drive and purpose
@@trapskilla I do wonder what would have happened if the mice had to work to get the food. Like strolling around in a hamster wheel for a few minutes to get a bit of food.
@@trapskilla Us keeping ourselves engaged is little more than advanced self grooming. It will lead to the same end.
Actually even though he concluded the mice needed purpose it was later found he wildly underestimated how much space mice need to be happy. The mice were overcrowded, and that made them unhappy.
That was the first thought I had when he began discussing the dimensions of the cage. They needed to at least have space to run, much like dogs would in the same scenario. Sure, you _could_ house thousands of them in the enclosure, but it still feels overcrowded to them when they're essentially trapped in the same box for their entire life. Running the same test with the same starting population, food and water sources, and nesting grounds with a far larger scale on maybe 100 square meters of an enclosed field might've yielded very different results. The illusion of naturalism might've been what was missing.
I don't think that's the actual case.
Remember the 5k enclosure only ever had a maximum of 2k, and that's solely because the mice refused to breed beyond that. Some variants of the experiment started with only a few hundred in a similarly sized enclosure and had similar results; once the mice realized they had nothing to do, they collapsed.
@@GeorgeCowsert Dude, you are aggressively underestimating how much space one mouse needs in order to be happy, you can not cram THAT many mice into such a small amount of space.
Every single one of those experiences had WAY too many mice in too small of enclosure, given how these animals normally have massive territories in the wild.
This would be like cramming 200 people into one mansion. Sure they have somewhere to sleep, and things to eat and drink, but it's so overwhelming overcrowded that it becomes a problem.
The severe lack of space gave rise to these problems, as these animals need more then just food and water. Their minimum requirements were not met by these abhorrent conditions, and they suffered as a result.
It was not the lack off "problems" or "challenges" that drove them off the edge, it was the clear as day fact that THEY WERE BEING ABUSED HORRIBLY.
Who would think that systematically abusing animals with severe overcrowding would harm them? What a total surprise, am I right?
@@GeorgeCowsert And also, mice are NOT A SOCIAL SPECIES!!!
Mice are territorial, and one dominant male usually lives together with several females and young.
They forced non-social animals, with no instincts to help navigate hyper social situations, into living like a hyper social species.
Keep in mind that hyper social species need others around them all the time, as the lack of interaction with others of their kind leads to stress.
But mice don't want that, their brains can't handle such an arraignment. They were never made to live like this, no wonder they fell. They were being tortured by these conditions, as it went against their very nature.
They used the wrong type of animal for this situation, and thus the experiments findings are made null. We cannot draw anything from this experiment, other than "torturing animals will hurt them".
Any notion that this experiment can help us say anything about human nature or society is preposterous at best, given how it's very nature is deeply flawed.
@@GeorgeCowsert not 2000, 200
5:55
Are you sure about that.
Every year we seem to drift closer to this phenomenon
The parallels are unnerving.
Agent smith said that the first matrix was a perfect world but nobody wanted to live in it
False, it was so unrealistic that everyone could tell they were in a simulation and became unstable. The next version of the matrix was made to be so convincing that people didn't even realize it was a simulation.
No it lacked an impossible task. That's why we went to the Moon, or that's why we didn't go to the moon but told everyone we did. These measurements have already been noted. This is why Society has thrived without true freedom for thousands of years. Are technical logical advancements could not keep a populist entertained so even a regime that would challenge a population's right to even exist would only encourage that population to exist. Therefore born Russia or China or any Communist Regime any regime that could take you unquestionably detain you and make sure nobody ever seen you again alive or dead we still live.
Yep
"The first Matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime; a triumph equaled only by its monumental failure" -Architect
With the increasing manifestation of absolutely absurd scenarios, I'm beginning to think this is a simulation lol
Moral of the story: give people stuff to do so they dont get bored and create problems.
That's probably why this world pandemic created so much problems on social media...
Those mice had the bread. They needed circuses.
Mouse probably got depressed, they were welp what’s the point of life did everything already let’s just kill each other that could be fun
This is used by some on the right to argue against social programs. Which seems a bad arguement as it's not the abundance of resources, but the lack purpose or things to inspire their creativity that most likely led to their demise. Lets not also forget that they're bred to be studied, not to be happy. Coming from a family that was probably fed heroin on a regular basis and subjected to "forced swim" tests doesn't really do much for being able to survive in a world we're you're led to your own devices.
@Grand Inquisitor where did he mention communism?
I recall a tangentially related experiment that seemed to shew that when given food, space, and opportunities for social interaction, mice given free access to cocaïne did _not_ pull the lever for it until they starved, but rather would take a coke break every couple of hours.
He didn’t create an overpopulation problem, but rather a scenario where the more aggressive mice were able to control the territory and isolate everyone else
@Deadpopp?
Doesn't sound like it. It wouldn't explain why they all just stopped.
Basic needs were met but not recreational. I was told that once humanity had mastered the art of survival did they then begin to develop activities in order to amuse themselves. We should try this again but with toys, puzzles, and several structures that invoke exploration. Boredom leads to depression in my experience, and further more to deterioration.
@@bennypika3575 bro you good i dont think drugs would work exactly the same way for the mouse as us, and it's not like the fucking mice are gonna roll up some blunts and smoke em lmao.
They dont have the mind to create but we do boredom make us to do something, they too but they simply cant
It had nothing to do with boredom. They formed tribes, became extremely territorial, and so on. Structure broken down, instinct broke down, they assumed the habitat could comfortably fit so many mice. In their world the structure was to small.
Boredom leads to finding stuff to do, but you can't do stuff if you're imprisoned so...
The Owens
Yeah thats why alot of animals can die from that shit, it fits into their dna differently
"Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost."
ever wondered why?
Writers did SERIOUS research. The mark of a good series
I never watched any of those series, but with what you just said I’d assume the writers did some research to put in their works
Creatures need to fight or protect something feel some sort of meaning thats why I have heard it said only way the world would find peace is if we had a alien attack then we can stop fighting each other and fight out words and not inwards
i never knew that "the first matrix" was an actual reality, but with lab rat experiments. awesome!!!
the utopia part not having toys is a fail but of an experiment of what would happen if it was employed
is perfect because eventually you get bored of doing said activity if given it enough.
This sounds like a prison. Food, beds, minimal space, nothing to do, and nowhere to go. Results are the same too.
I'm reminded of Dostoevsky's great words from Notes from the Underground - Men are not piano keys.
Given a utopia, where everything is weighed and calculated, and there is nothing to worry, man will burn it all to the ground just to prove to himself that he is no cog in a machine and has free will.
maybe the welfare state should be abandoned. nobody wants roving clicks that start fights for no reason
ewmegoolies the welfare state is simply about opportunity. It recognizes that an economic system is not a social system and that its only purpose is to allow as many citizens as possible to sustainably live. Basically, there are a million things in the world to do, and the welfare state is designed to allow people to do as much as they want as possible. Our world is not a 101 inch box where all variables are accounted for.
... of course, by predictably burning his utopia to the ground, man succeeds in proving just the opposite: given enough relevant information, his behaviors are predictable
Jay Black I lived in areas that are heavily influenced by welfare, rape was common, someone being dead on the floor wasn’t surprising, and everything else was about drugs.:/
ewmegoolies we call these clicks “migrants” in Europe
What's interesting is I was thinking myself that the mice were lacking enrichment, something that keeps them mentally engaged and active. Today in research we make sure that mice have nestlets for them to make nest out of, and something to chew on. It's been shown that without enrichment, mice will go insane.
That why the rats in rat Utopia went insane, they had nothing to do
Which is the inevitable end of humanity. At some point, there will be nothing more to discover, nothing more to do, nothing more to learn. All menial tasks will be handled by robots, and humans will be living the equivalent of the utopia these mouse were given, just on a bigger scale. Some people call what the mice were given a prison, but in reality what is a prison or not just depends on the perspective...
How about next time before they kill them in some dumb experiments sell them to me at 1 $ each ..I have to pay 2$ each for my pet . They don’t go to waste he gets $$ for them my pet has all the food he can eat..it’s a win win 😉👍
@@N0xiety and thats where video games and tv come in, to distract our minds in the absence of needing to discover a way to survive.
You miss the point of the experiment
I would like to remind everyone... the mice didn't have video games to give them a false sense of achievement.
Now imagine some higher entity is exprimenting on us and we are their mice.
rats and mice are pretty intelligent social creatures. I remember when my brother had 2 rats as pets, we created "rat city" on a ping pong table with "houses" made of bricks, runways made of boards. When we gave them food nuggets they would then take the food and then distribute or hide it in various places. We would also let the rats play in the basement, Ratsy was friendly to people he knew so if we laid down he would crawl all over us making the cutest high pitched sound (eta it's called bruxing) and walk from hand to hand or stay on a shoulder. If he was somewhere we couldn't find him, he would come if we called him. Anyways challenges, enrichment, stimulation is so important.
have you seen a wild rat, ew but the house mice are fine.
@@tatotaytoman5934 wild rats are even smarter and interesting to watch. In the city in the subways you see them come out on the tracks to pick up food and such, but they disappear before another train comes by. I don't know where they go when the trains come but you never see one run over..
Rat Communism
@@jennyzervakis9323 ever seen a rat trigger a rat trap and not die, i have and its wild shit, i seen one video as well where one uses a fuckin piece of a wooden stick and he uses it to set off the trap and get that cheese
@@jennyzervakis9323 wild rats are brutal. I remember shooting a few in a barn and then I went out looking for rabbits deciding to clear them away afterwards (you can't touch wild rats with your hands due to disease) but when I returned all the dead rats had disappeared because the other rats had dragged them in to their burrow and likely eaten them.
There's a sequel to this expermient where they figured oit why the rats were going crazy, it's called rat park, the gist of it was for drug addiction but they noticed pretty quickly that if they didnt have toys/a way to play it led to this behavioural sink where they'd form gangs and attack others for sport.
Well, humans have toys and whatnot and things to keep ourselves happy. But don't we kinda still fall into that sink? (one of the things I notice is that when this stuff happens/ a human becomes bored they start to look into crime, like the mice did. We too have other factors of boredom like depression and stressful situations)
@@harrowingseer humans are more complex so while the rats are satisfied with entertainment, us humans really want to find purpose.
@@harrowingseer If we look back many serial killers are from rural areas. Drugs, illegal weapons, and theft are also very common in rural areas. It's not so much crime that appears in big cities. It's being a part of a brainless system that doesn't care for it's people, and statistically people will interact more in cities. So there's a higher chance of altercations. Also in rural areas it's easier to hide a crime so those people don't get policed as much.
spacedoohicky On contrary, in rural area, where the population is reduced and everyone knows everyone, the self-regulation of the society manifests stronger and therefore, the criminality is lower. But if oin that particular rural area education is low, then things can get complicated.
I've heard of that experiment but never this one
This experiment spawned the book "The Secret of NIMH.
I love a good youtube rabbithole, started off by watching a music video and somehow ended up here watching an interesting video!
Every living thing needs a purpose, a challenge. Even mice.
They needed NECESSITY
@Ryan Lajara Well yes but actually no
@Ryan Lajara increasing your finances and getting a degree are also challenges. They are WAY more important, that’s obvious, but in its core, they can still be viewed as challenges.
@Ryan Lajara And you think LGBT people and women don't exist in developing countries?
And btw, India has more vegetarians than the rest of the world put together.
, if i have to guess u belong to a majority population in your country, go through the history men have always found a reason to get into conflict much before religion was formed much before countries existed , men always fought among himself, the difference today is we dont fight each other with swords sticks or arrows, we have WMD nuclear bioweapons , many more will be created, one day eventually one person will say enough is enough and he or she will hit that mass destruction button either through bombs or viruses or chemicals, it could be by any means but destruction will be so massive that humans will cease to exist its bound to happen, give or take 100 to 150 years i see humanity getting destroyed
“The first Matrix was designed to be a perfect world, where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster.”
Great movie
Not a quote.
@@itchyandscratchy7350 It’s a quote from the Matrix
@@azul034 It's not the correct wording
@@brianlam5847 it was easier to understand than the one Alexandre Tavares provided.
Such a profound way to study the behaviors of people.
Currently happening in Seoul.
All infrastructure is concentrated at Seoul, and more than a quarter of pop is located there.
Now birthrate is 0.7
... actually 0.68
That's not Utopia, its prison. There is literally nothing to do other than reproduce.
Wasn't there a experiment near this? A mouse heaven and a mouse by itself.
The mouse heaven had unlimited food, a weird mouse playground and water. Tho there was a liquid drug too. Many of the heaven mouse mice mostly drank the water, barley any drank the drugs.
The mouse alone had unlimited food water and the liquid drug and the same things that mouse heaven had. Just only one mouse. The mouse drank the drugs most instead of water. The experiment was changed. They added like 3(im pretty sure) mice. All mice drank the drugs
What prison do you go to..?
@@harrowingseer I don't quite get why the 3 mice took the drugs. 3 was still too few so they felt alone or the other 2 seen the first take them so they did too?
So, in prison, there is literally nothing to do other than reproduce?
But then don’t you realize that prison is Utopia and vice versa? Those mice had plenty space for them, much more room to be able to hold more population so it’s not confining. Yet they don’t do it. They bundle up together, stop trying to live, and die. They are animals, they do the things they do to SOLELY to SURVIVE. And surviving is as close a utopia they’d get. What IS there to do in a mouse’ life other than trying to survive and reproduce?
We think Humans are different because we find things to do when we are bored that we invent for ourselves. But even then we share the same symptoms. And we’re depressed, we’re not into making families or children. We deviate from being attracted to an opposite sex, and that’s not wrong whatsoever, it’s just the only way we, as animals, can reproduce. All in all, a lot of millennials. I don’t even know how the newer generation is going to turn out. We already are really depressed in our teenage years after all.
This was supposed to be about overpopulation, but it sounds like none of the experiments ever reached levels high enough to be overpopulated. It seems more like it was a lack of purpose that killed them. Am I giving mice too much credit for emotional reactions?
Nope, that's the crux of it. Life isn't all about eating, breeding, breathing. The 1% is going to learn that very very soon.
It's not "emotion." In behavioral science this is called lack of enrichment. Think prison, not utopia.
Capitalism vs socialism
@@crystalsunshine That's what the 99% do.
they started to wage war on each other just to have literally anything to do. I think the morale of this story is how important internet and the entertainment industry is to our society.
I just remembered that there's an old kids book vaguely inspired by this, but with a modified version of the story where the "rats of NIMH" escaped and formed their own society.
The notes on social structure are interesting. I had the thought that if I lived in a box with 600 people and didn't have modern means of communicating 1:1 via text etc, it'd be hard to make/keep friendships
Agent Smith: Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world. Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world. But I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery.
Man I got to say Agent Smith maybe a bad guy but he knows humans more than humans
aint that the damn truth. +1
I wish i could like this twice
Kevin Martin all this because you have seen a video about mice’s on CZcams and an action film around XD
Does this also apply to project instrumentality from Evangelion?
So when all your needs are lavishly met, one creates struggle for a purpose to live. That explains the Real Housewives series.
Grievance Studies.
Explains my depression.
And the current (as of 2018) political climate.
It also explains why someone would want to make the show Real Housewives, and also why people would want to watch it... very interesting.
Red Shift yeah. That does explain it. I probably have caught pieces of that show once every three to six months in a hotel room where there's actually a television. I don't have a television with channels at home.. So naturally when I'm traveling, i surf through, but one can only take so much of that squabbling! LOL. Admittedly, the more wine I've had, the more easy it is to ignore it while I do a facial. I do enjoy giving myself a pedicure well hang out in hotel room. Sometimes I even watch Jerry Springer.
“We are slightly more complex and self aware creatures than mice” - why say it when you know it ain’t true?
love you thanks for the interesting video
the word "utopia" is a pun. It comes from the Greek word for "good place" but also "no place." It's good, but it doesn't exist.
oh I love ancient greek!
Thank you for explaining! I rarely get puns, they're Greek to me.
A thing to add is that the first use was in a book describing thus hypothetical land, ands its pretty inmoral for present ethics, check the video "Utopia is Dystopia"
Holo!!! Hi!!!!
It was never suppsed to be utopia. It was supposed to be a dystopia, which it was.
As a rodent owner, it makes perfect sense why the mice went crazy. Mice are more intelligent than we give them credit for, and they need enrichment. They should have been provided with plenty of toys and activities and various environments. With absolutely nothing to do other than sleep, eat, and mate, it’s no wonder why they didn’t survive. They were bored and miserable
no,they started thinking there is no god and went to existential crisis.
I’d bet they would’ve gotten tired of toys. There is no excitement when everything is provided.
@@Mich-jk2ze What this experiment simulated wasn't a utopia, but an overpopulated prison. Experiment designers screwed up big time.
As to your own assertion: on the internet everything is provided, in a sense. You choose your own excitement (website/streaming/game) and when that excitement wears off, you choose another. You make your own excitement. Life is the same. There's always something to do. Something you want to do, even if you don't need to in order to survive. No one likes being bored.
Nailed it.
Kinda sounds like lockdown.
This has appeared in my feed many times. Already Watched it completely at least twice. What is the algorithm trying to say?
The reason I view this as suspicious is because they had a huge lack of space and variety as opposed to what humans do in a country. That enclosure was capable of housing up to 3,000 mice, the u.s.a. already has / 350 million people and there's still tons of areas that are just nothing but land.
Surely overpopulation is not the thing to be afraid of here, as there was still ample food, water and space. It’s creating a society with no responsibilities or challenges, leading to the breakdown of social bonds.
The Great and Venerable Swede and what do we see happening around us ?
It's not that, it's how it'll exponentially grow to a specific point.
Does the mouse know how many they are for the space and food?
Do they somehow calculate predictability for explorations?
Does humanity only grow still because we've yet to settle?
Perhaps, but only if we stop growing. It wasn’t that they reached an arbitrary number then died out, it was the lack of purpose, their biological imperatives were achieved for them. I personally see this experiment as an argument for human growth. If we stop reaching, creating and expanding maybe we will reach this point. Bare in mind the effect creativity seemed to have on the rodents.
There's no point to any of this, you stupid breeder.
That’s a new one
"i made a paradise"
*makes a prison*
Prison is where you get fucked in the ass involuntarily. These mice were engaging in unnatural sexual behaviors out of boredom, kinda what people in the West currently do
@@vovasRomas People in the East have plenty weird sexual kinks. Ever hear of hentai? What you described is almost vanilla sex, and pretty much done everywhere that there isn't authoritarian sex laws.
@@Eudaletism Science is a prostitute of a ruling class. Especially politically motivated, Marxists hijacked, completely out of touch with reality and completely corrupt social sciences of the West.
Since the mice don't engage in such deviant sexual behaviors in nature but in highly controlled artificial environment, we can call it what it is, a perversion.
@@vovasRomas clearly biased against the west. Anything of your own culture/religion you're trying to protect?
@Grand Inquisitor okay(?) However that is not communism. Communism failed because it has a pathetic economic system based on suppossed equal pay for every job essentially but fails at it's very premise. This failed because it ignores the fundamental nature and needs of mice. This is a failure because it is an attempt to force the ideal world into the real world, which can only result in absolute chaos.
reminds me of the hotels in nyc right now
Very interesting. And, I think very applicable to human society insofar all the great empires collapsed from within after seemingly reaching their pinnacle of success. Yes, without challenge and adversity, it seems stagnation and decline are sure to follow.
Wait a second you're not Michael from Vsauce
Oscar Reves
I legit thought it was him for a second!
Can't stop giggling at that one.
His long lost cousin.
this one is free
Hey vsauce Micheal here... But what I wasn't... Micheal
Lesson I learned from this: in an environment of abundance, where the challenge of survival is gone, we must create our own sense of purpose, set our own goals.
The lesson I learned from this: when trying to design a utopia, take great caution to ensure you don't accidentally create an overpopulated prison system of bored and depressed inbreds instead.
And I have to admit, near the end of that sentence I stopped thinking it sarcastically.
And our purposes will clash with other peoples purposes and conflict will ensue
@@Cobbido in the words of Jack Sparrow, "Complications arose, ensued, and were overcome. "
this is why humans are constantly getting depressed and why that is also common in dogs. without something to distract the mind life is meaningless. Achieving nothing through hardship is more fulfilling that achieving something through nothing.
But you can't create it, it has to be organic. We are evolved to know real engagement.
I would say more like "find" than "create" which is what every young adult struggles with these days as those opportunities are drying up in a society where so many of the problems are solved, and the ones left are far too complex and/or require far too much special education to even begin to approach.
I believe this is in part what is driving the political animosity towards each other today. We are inventing problems.
I think having something cater'd to your every whim is a dystopia. AND THEY CANT ESCAPE?!
Very interesting topic. Are there any moderne Calhoun replicating his experiments tracking down the mice population from the genetics viewpoint? The lack of environmental selection pressure might have played a role there.
CZcams: Wanna see a mice Utopia go horribly wrong??
Me: *checks my view history to see Nothing even remotely similar to this video* .... Okay, yeah, but why...?
The Algorithm Sees, The Algorithm Knows
Pinkie Power Why is the algorithm doing this?
The mice of nimh documentary
I submit my will to the All God Rhythm!
@@wikitewok1383 I've seen that movie!
They literally bored themselves to death.
its funny but the conclusion of the study was not far from that mate :)
Well, there's Roger Waters' next album.
Basically, there was nothing for them to do
They started to wage wars just to have anything to do. Thats kinda creepy.
The fall of the Old Ones in Warhammer 40000. That's how it happens.
Consciousness is nourished by novelty and chaos.
I remember watching this doc, spin chilling, kinda felt sick after watching it
Its like the last season of "the good place", where even an eternity of heaven gets dull and pointless. Life is hard and that gives us meaning. Without the struggle, there is no point in being.
Yes this is what I was thinking! I was searching for someone to mention it
The experiment was never supposed to be utopia, I don´t know why it is misunderstood all the time. It was created as a model of overpopulated, stressful, unnatural habitat, like modern cities are for humans.
That habitat looks totally ugly and non-stimulating from the photos. The mice couldn´t avoid each other when their number reached certain level. They were under enormous social stress, just like people in the cities where they meet thousands of strangers every day (BTW strangers are subconsciously perceived as threat).
@@ccc12346 "there was space..." according to who? The researcher, or the mice?
Technically there is enough space to house 10 people in one room, it doesn´t mean they will be happy.
That ubication looks too small and boring for 30 mice, not to mention for 3 000.
@@ccc12346 3000 dead mice, crammed in corpse to corpse maybe.
What if that's just bullshit propaganda being fed to you by a system that NEEDS you to believe it?
It's like the first matrix. It was a utopia and a complete failure. Without something to strive for, the spirit dies.
I was about to post the exact same comment
Except... this was BEFORE the matrix, man...
@@furqueue9590 exactly, thiss was almost certainly part of the research for the Matrix. There is a pretty good video on the topic on the "down the rabbit hole" channel.
@@furqueue9590 what do you mean? The year is 2300 near as we can guess. You've been plugged in your whole life.
@@miguelrodriguezcimino1674 and I was about to post the exact same comment as you.
Are we at the breakdown of society?
Shows that certain life stresses are for our benefit.
"I shall write of mice, but think of men" is a brilliant quote by Calhoun on that experiment.
Dumb
@@thomas.thomas dumb
Smart af
@@thomas.thomas good mouse
"They wouldn't accept the programming. Entire crops were lost." - Agent Smith, The Matrix.
seems like humans wont socialize unless they have to. but need it to be healthy. therefore some struggle is necessary.
Good movie
I knew this comment existed... just had to look for it.
First movie great, 2nd movie not as good story-wise but cool action and style, haven't seen Matrix 3 but Matrix 4 looks like shit
I, too, was thinking about Agent Smith having that conversation with Morpheus before I saw your picked quote. I had a different line that I was trying to manifest: "Human beings define their reality through misery and suffering."
I don't know if this character's observation is correct. But at any rate, now it seems that it's not just humans, but other animals which may well be lacking a certain something in such a... 'spice-less' environment, shall we say? I'm still highly unsure on why the social breakdown among the mice occurred.
Coming to a city near you, soon!
This is why I think the idea of 15 minutes cities will not work
Given the fact that the mice did not return to health after their population declined, in addition to the fact that the full capacity of the environment was never reached, it's safe to assume that _overpopulation_ was not the issue. Why would the researchers have assumed this?
Because of preconceived notions and having an agenda.
Because, perhaps, the researchers were oblivious to, or biased against, the obvious. Of course the researchers could also have been just plain stupid.
I wonder if it was meant that overpopulation of a specific area. It is odd to say "overpopulated" then point to pristine areas right next door. I believe it to be related to social phenomena in which people tend to stay in their own perceived class, or strata, of society over the course of their entire lives unless tragedy spurs them to move...perhaps predation and need for something better are necessary motivators in a society? Without these things, the mice(and perhaps humans) would not move on? Pioneers moving on create space for those inclined to stay, and create new societies where they move. I wonder what would happen if predation or some other natural disaster where introduced...?
because it was done to advance the psychotic anti humanity "progressive" agenda
It was not exactly an experiment on overpopulation, it might have started as one to study overpopulation, but then this event of a "behavioral Sink" happened and that became the focus. Can it be reliably replicated? What are the possible causes? Are their ways to influence this event both negatively or positively? Those were the questions this experiment was looking to answer.
Holy crap. It's like Los Angeles in a nut shell
🤣🤣
Wait the utopia part or the mate with anyone nearby part
@@WyvernApalis it was a utopia, now they are squandering it. Think back to the 50s 60s
😂 😂 😂
The Southern states are getting overpopulated by incest.
Puts a bunch if mice in what is effectively a prison* calls it "mouse Utopia"
“Shower upon him every earthly blessing, drown him in a sea of happiness, so that nothing but bubbles of bliss can be seen on the surface; give him economic prosperity, such that he should have nothing else to do but sleep, eat cakes and busy himself with the continuation of his species, and even then out of sheer ingratitude, sheer spite, man would play you some nasty trick.”
Oh wow, so at some point they created social structures/groups. Then others decided to separate themselves from the group once they started fighting and eating one another.
Thing I noticed is that they weren’t given anything to do other than eat and sleep. I’m sure they probably needed some mental stimulation, so it could’ve also led to that outcome.
I’d probably say in their case, boredom killed. They were given the basic necessities to survive, but with no purpose it drove them to their deaths
Sounds like Democrats
@@gsk5161 STOP GETTING POLITICS INTO EVERYTHING FFS ( i dont even know which side democrats are on cause im not American just please stfuuu already with politics)
@@SHinierthennyourforeheadyou sound like a democrat
@@SHinierthennyourforehead tbh politics in general is a social system. Parallels to what the rats have done here. No different in fact.
What that individual was hinting at. Is creating groups of groups that are made unnecessarily. Then those same sub-groups take issue with the original.
Literally the exact same thing with our politics now. America is practically experiencing the RATastrophe as we speak.
That's all really, people gotta vent somehow.
@@trustworthyh3ro267 whitenight is also venting their frustration at the encroachment of american politics in spaces like this. I think it's a perfectly fair thing to say.
people gotta vent, but I'm not responsible to hear it.
He needed to play with them. Exercise wheels, toys, playful wrestling, puzzles, outside time (that's safely secured). A place without that is no “utopia”. No wonder the mice went crazy!
it's a good thing we have video games for humans, eh? eh? eh? eh?..... eh?
Also maybe a terrain that didn't just consist of sawdust and wire and bedding, also they could have got some contagious virus or bacteria that made their brains degrade over time and that's why they started fighting and losing their sex drive etc. I feel like it just wasn't well planned out, how did he know what an acceptable population density is in the first place?
Someone did that and it became a game changer around addiction
.
@@360.Tapestry not exactly when you consider what a lot of game devs went through to make those games
@@annieinwonderland sounds super interesting. Name/ source? (wanna read up on that)
This experiment is how the Snowpiercer train, 1001 cars long, was designed
Parallels are drawn at the moment. ha
This sounds like a Vault-Tech experiment
Wow, that's true
How did I not think of that
The thumbnail at a glance looks like he is in a vault tech jumpsuit
Sweet PFP, I like her blue hair.
@@shanukatolkar4493 you got a perty mouth Shaun, want it full?
Well, Vault-tec were always just outright malevolent. The vault experiments were cruel and unusual, and would never lead to societal collapse due to abundance of everything one could possibly desire. This guy did everything in his power to engineer a perfect society, only to have it collapse on itself at no fault of his own. Vault-tec would've made the living space just barely adequate, then introduce an authoritarian power structure while secretly exposing the entire population to psychoactive drugs just to see what would happen.
This is experiment needs to be done again but the right way. A much larger enclosure, activities of some sort, and probably some natural sounds to be played. Being stuck in a box with the only things to do are eat and drink the same things would drive me crazy too.
This would kind of kill the whole “Utopia” vibe but how about at around noon of each day, you introduce two cats in and let them roam for an hour. Take them out and put them back in the next day. This will kill a few mice on the first few days, but it would give stimulation to survive. Though, this would probably just make all of them hide at around noon and come out when they know it’s safe.
@@itsalily_lei_lei Take the cats out at increasingly more random times
@@itsalily_lei_leiThat doesn't sound very "Utopian" I mean it probably would be simulating to the rats and I guess interesting to observe how they reacted to a greater danger in time but again it kind of ruined the point experiment in the first place on seeing how rats would react if they had all there needs filled
P.S. I'm not really into sacrificing animals for an experiment even if they're rats, I understand why it happens but it makes me sad
@@johnnyaugust5015 I did say in my opening sentence “This would kind of kill the whole ‘Utopia’ vibe…” so you don’t need to point out it wouldn’t technically be an utopia.
Is anyone else horrified by this? Its like looking at modern society but through a lens of mice who has an accelerated growth/life cycle. Humans are in an age of plenty never before seen in human history and you are starting to see all this play out. From birth rate plummeting (in the developed world), divorce rates skyrocketing, even to the increasing number of people not even dating at all and withdrawing from society. Japan was just ahead of the curve but the entire world (outside latin america and africa) will be facing population collapse in the next 20-40 years.
@@Dreadful999 Agreed. Bill Mahr (of all people) made the joke that if the trend continues for the next 100 years we'll all be gay. Its uncanny how much this study reminds me of modern society. I think the reason people are in denial is they don't want to consider that there is anything wrong with being gay. While I don't have a problem with it morally it definitely is a dead end biologically so a trend that shows homosexulity doubling every generation (which is the current trend since the 60's) is concerning. m
Thus, brings you to 15 minute cities! Good luck every one!
I'd think a "mice utopia" would include exercise equipment and toys, burrowing and nesting materials, fresh air and sunshine. 🤔 They had the basics, but not a "garden of eden" for their physical and emotional needs.
Is the sunshine needed since there's plenty of rats that live only in subways and stuff?
@@Sellocabecause they are hiding from predators and they do need sunshine.
Good point. Food, water, space, and bedding alone is not a “utopia”. Prisons have the same amenities
A friend started raising chickens in his back yard. He had a xylophone and other toys on the pen walls. When asked why, he said online sources said he’d need to given them things to do, otherwise they might develop violent clique hierarchies.
(He also occasionally lets them out in the big backyard if the family is around-to watch them and also protect them from hawks.)
Still wouldn't be enough. Zoo animals have similar issues as these rats ..despite their entertainment and toys, they still probably only get enough stimulation by interacting with humans
4:53 "The beautiful ones" decided being an Instagram celeb was more important than life itself ...
My mind immediately went to the insta “models” too 😂
I instantly thought of hikikomori.
I don't think that's accurate. Instagram celeb sounds like almost the exact opposite of what they were doing. They disconnect themselves from their society, an instagram celeb doesn't do that.
Sadly, it kind of describes of me, secluded from society, only coming out to eat and shit.
😂
With such a tinny starting pool of mice the genetic bottle neck that was created may have played a huge role in the eventual collapse.
So relevant today.